Wild Card with Rachel Martin - Tig Notaro

Episode Date: January 15, 2026

Tig Notaro knows all about how humor and grief can coexist. She's explored those topics in her stand-up comedy, TV shows, and podcasts. Her latest project is "Come See Me in the Good Light," a documentary about her friend, the poet Andrea Gibson's, who died of cancer last year. She tells Rachel about growing up skiing with gators in Mississippi, and what Andrea taught her about the preciousness of life.To listen sponsor-free and support the show, sign up for Wild Card+ at plus.npr.org/wildcard See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences.NPR Privacy Policy

Hey everybody. Ever since we launched Wildcard, there is one thing that you have asked about more than anything else. Where can I get the Wild Card deck? We hear it constantly. You've been very patient and I'm so excited to finally announce that it is here. The Wildcard deck. It's available at the NPR shop. You can find it at shoppnpr.org. And we've selected some of our very favorite questions from the show. And we made this custom deck for you, our audience. It is just a phenomenal way to think about your own members. memories, insights, and beliefs over dinner with the family, maybe on a road trip with friends. It's a way to connect and learn new things about people you are just meeting or people you have known all of your life. Check it out at shopnpr.org. We are so excited for you to try it out. Again, shopnpr.org. What's a place that shaped you just as much as any person did? Mississippi. My family was full of characters. And

My friends would be like, they're like out of a storybook. And I was like, what do you mean? And they were like, what do you mean? What do I mean? I'm Rachel Martin and this is Wildcard, the show where cards control the conversation. Each week, my guest answers questions about their life. Questions pulled from a deck of cards. They're allowed to skip one question and to flip one question back on me.

My guest this week is Tignatoro. You know, I'd share stories of like, oh yeah, my brother and I would water ski. in the swamps and they were like with alligators. And I was like, well, yeah, but I didn't see them. There would be signs. I mean, it was Mississippi, but it was also Mississippi in the 70s. Tig Nataro has built a career dissecting her own life. In her stand-up, podcasts, even a TV show,

Tig has brought her audience into some of the most personal parts of her own living. Growing up as a gay kid in the South, falling in love with her wife, her struggle through breast cancer. But in her latest creative project, TIG turned the spotlight on a close friend of hers, the poet Andrea Gibson. Andrea and TIG decided that they wanted to make a documentary about the very end of Andrea's life. Andrea was battling cancer for a long time. The film is called Come See Me in the Good Light, and I'm so happy to welcome Tignitaro to Wildcard.

Hi. Hi. I'm so glad to be here with you in this conversation. Same. Do you want to play a game? That's why I'm here. Okay. So this is round one.

Memories. Yep. One, two, or three. I'll take two. Two. At what point in your life did you spend the most time alone? Hmm. I've lived in Colorado a couple of different times.

And the first time that I moved there when I was a teenager, like I dropped out of high school and got a job, saved my money to move. and I was so scared and excited to start my life. And you just like threw a dart at a map? Like, why did you? Well, I had gone, my mother. You grew up in Mississippi. And Texas. In Texas.

Mississippi and Texas, both of those places. But my mother went to college in Gunnison, Colorado, Western State. And my father had lived in Colorado. I just always heard about it. And then this childhood friend Shannon and I decided to go on a – we told our parents we were going to Galveston Beach in Texas for the weekend. Or maybe for a week. I don't know what we told them.

But we drove to Colorado and, like, camped on the side of a river, on the side of a mountain, and had no idea that there was, like, a prison around the corner from us. And like, but it was so beautiful. It was just like, oh, this is why my mother only talks. Yeah. About Colorado. And so. Then you just started as a camping trip and then you were just like, just kidding.

We, I live here now. Well, I was like, I got a, first of all, we got caught. Shannon, our parents didn't know where we were and Shannon's brother or boyfriend cracked and told on us. Spilled beans. Yeah. When I say we got in trouble, my mother actually was just thrilled that I was alive and she took me out for Mexican food and wanted to see all the pictures. But she was like, oh, sweetie, you can't, you cannot do that ever again. But let me see the pictures.

And so, but yeah, I just, after I visited Colorado, I was like, man, this is, this feels like home to me. And so I packed up. But you were, the question was about loneliness. So you knew one or two people there? No, I didn't know anybody. I just went, I got a job in an apartment. And I started going to coffee shops and open mics and just trying to show up places where I thought like-minded people would be. And I was very lonely, but I was very lonely.

but I was very excited for, I just felt like my life was there and it turned out it was. And, yeah, but it was, I was alone for quite a while before I gathered my crew. Okay, three more, one, two, or three. One. One. What was a moment when you felt proud of yourself as a kid? I felt this is so dumb. I was proud of myself about like a joke I had made and I couldn't believe how funny this joke or something and I was probably seven or something and I was in the lunchroom. And a friend of mine had one of those little little tiny bags of Fritos.

Yeah. A little snack bag. Yeah, snack bag. Yeah. Sure. And they opened it with their, they were having that with their lunch, and they opened the bag. And the bag was upside down. But I made the joke.

I was like, oh, I said all of your fritos are upside down now. And I thought that was, that concept tickled me to no end. And I couldn't believe, and my friend was a little like, oh, but I was really lost in my own head of like, wow, that is really clever. And, and, you know, honestly, I stand by it, and I still think it is, it's a good one. When you, when that happened to you, though, was that you were like, oh, this is fun. Like, I'm funny. Even if people don't like, like, I'm funny and maybe I can keep being funny. I mean, I was already, I mean, out of the gate, I was, I was that kid that was always making jokes in class.

But I remember feeling so seen when I was in seventh grade, my friend Dana, we were playing. on the street and she said my mom thinks that you could be a comedian one day and I was like oh my God like it was so I felt so so seen because I felt like my comedy was a little bit a negative in my life because I was always getting in trouble for being. funny and I made things difficult for my teachers and you know but also to give my teachers a lot of credit they were very patient with me they they were very patient with me um so when that mom what was the mom's name or the kid's name my friend's name was Dana and the mother's name was Mrs. White is Mrs. White that's right yeah Mrs. White yeah but when when Dana

relayed this to you that her mom thought that you really had something for you what was that I mean did you know what a comedian was oh yeah yeah I just always felt like you know the bad kid that was always in trouble and so to be seen by somebody in that way yeah it was pretty incredible yeah okay last one in this round one two or three I gotta go with three now let's do it what's a place that shaped you just as much as any person did I would have to say Mississippi growing up there. It's like all of those things that you take for granted and you don't realize that they shaped you. I remember not knowing that my family was fully.

of characters. I had no clue until I grew up and moved away and brought girlfriends home with me to Mississippi to meet my family, my cousins. And my friends would be like, they're like out of a storybook. And I was like, what do you mean? And they were like, what do you mean? What do I mean? Like listen to these people. And I remember, you know, I'd share stories of like, oh yeah, my brother and I would water ski in the swamps and they're like with alligators and I was like, well yeah, but I didn't see them. There would be signs, you know,

hammered to a tree that's in the middle of the swamp that said, you know, watch out for alligators. But it, there was like a, I mean, it was Mississippi, but it was also Mississippi in the 70s. It's a lot of like, you know, hopping in the back of a pickup truck and drinking a barks root beer out of a bottle while you're going over the railroad track and maybe you chip your tooth.

I'm from Idaho. We did a lot of traveling in the backs of pickup. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I love the feeling of a full house of everyone just crashing on couches and sharing beds. And when Stephanie and I got married, we got married in my hometown.

Like, she really loves Mississippi and my family and was like she was like she was just. shocked by how much she responded because when we first met she was like Mississippi, wow, okay. Like she just thought everybody was poor with no shoes sitting on, you know, front porches. And listen, there's plenty of that too. But that wasn't my family. But so we decided to get married to Mississippi, and I had all of these, you know, just like bearded comedian guys crashing at my cousin's house, like sleeping on couches and piled up in different rooms and my cousin's wife going through the whole house with her thick accent, peeking into each room saying, how many baez do you want? And people of it, what do you say?

How many bears? How many bears do you want? Bears. Bears. She had teddy bears. She was walking room to room asking these bearded drunk comedians that were broke crashing all around her house, like if they wanted a teddy bear to sleep with. And just asking as though it was like a typical thing.

Totally normal. Yeah, you're sleeping here. It's nighttime. You're going to bed. So how many baezes do you? want. And she's walking around. As if someone could say more than one, too. Yeah, absolutely. I'd like four. She had all of these bears in her arms and how many do you want? But like all of that is, it's amazing. Characters. Yeah. Absolute characters. We're going to pull out of the game. We'll come back to it.

But let's talk about your movie. It's a beautiful thing. It's called Come See Me in the Good Light. Yes. Andrea Gibson is this phenomenal poet. They were the poet laureate in Colorado. Yes. And they had personal relationships with you and several of the other people who were instrumental in making this happen. Mainly me and Steph Willen. Steph Willan, Andrea and I all knew each other from, you know, I think Steph had met Andrea actually a couple of years before I met Andrea.

and then Ryan White, the director and his producing partner, Jessica Hargrave. We would run into each other at events and premieres. And they were just like, if you ever have a film to pitch us, let us know. We'd love to make something funny. And it was wild because I call him and I'm like, hey, I said I have this idea that I wanted to bring with to you and I pitch it and they're like okay interesting a non-binary poet with stage four ovarian cancer doesn't sound terribly funny but I was like Andrea was truly one of the funniest people I knew and um and as as devastating as the movie can be at moments it's also very funny in moments

and and um and they actually as we've been screening this film at the different festivals, Ryan and Jess say this is actually the funniest movie we've ever made. Yeah. What was Andrea's reaction to this idea, this proposition of following them through what ended up being some of their last months or year? And Megan, their partner. Yeah. Yeah, Andrea and Meg were both very open to it.

You know, one of the things that Andrea said was like, it's like a garden hose if you bend it, you cut everything off. And if, and that means like with your emotions, like if you cut it all off, you're going to cut off. you're going to cut off all of the good and the bad. And so Andrea was all for letting it flow, whether it was, no matter what it was, no matter what it was. And I always describe Andrea as somebody who felt that everything on this planet was so, so precious. And then also nothing was too precious. And you could have a deep, deep, inappropriate laugh with Andrea as much as you could just reach the deep, deep depth of human emotion.

And I mean, Andrea's poetry, live performances, it was quite the roller coaster because you could be in tears and then seconds later be laughing so hard. Andrea could have been a stand-up comedian for sure. For sure. What was it like to watch Andrea, watch people watch the film at the premiere at Sundance? Because you did get that opportunity. I imagine I would have been watching Andrea the whole time to see what their reaction would be. Yeah, yeah. I kept checking in. before the movie, Andrea was so nervous, pacing, like, oh, God, oh, gosh, just, it's so vulnerable. You know, there was a documentary made about me a decade ago, and I remember that feeling of, it's, when you put anything out in the world, TV show or stand-up special, podcast, whatever it is, it's like, God, like, what are people going to. to think. But when it's that vulnerable, it's, it's, it's something. And I think being in that

theater with, it was a sold-out Sundance premiere. And I mean, within minutes, you could feel the audience holding all of the devastation, all of the comedy, everything, just they were, in. And I remember, yeah, you could see Andrea settle in. And right after the movie, it was, it was clear. Andrew loved this movie. And Ryan always says, like, Andrea and Meg are the only subjects that have never, that never asked, what story are we trying to tell? Or can I see the camera angle or can I see some of the footage. They trusted, and I think it's because they are artists themselves, they trusted the artists that were making this film. And that confidence and trust paid off. And also, what a way to live. Isn't that a nice way to live? Yeah.

To just let go. Let go. Yeah. Well, congratulations again on making it. Yeah, it's a really beautiful, beautiful thing. Thank you. Let's play more of this game about you. Round two. This is Insights. The cards are blue. Three new cards.

One, two, or three. Let's go three. Let's go there. What's an irrational fear you can't shake? An irrational fear? I can't shake. I can't say that I can't shake it. I've slowly been.

shaking it. And it's, I'm a bit of a germaphobe. Are you? I am. And I remember before I had kids, I mean, I've always loved children. I used to work with children. But when I would see babies crawl around on the floor, and I always wanted children, but I was like, I would see other people's babies crawling around, dragging their onesie and feet and face, everything along the floor. And like putting their hand in their mouth. Yes. Yeah. And I was just like, oh, my gosh, how does a parent pick up their child after they've been dragging their body and just snuggle in and give kisses?

I was like, gosh. And then as soon as my parents are sick all the time. Yeah, truly. But as soon as I had my kids, it's like it did not even cross my mind. They could have been rolling around with like a dead animal, like as dogs do. And I'd just be like, yep, there's my kid. And that's how they smell. But I think where I got it was as a comedian and going on tour, a lot of this.

the lower level comedy clubs that you kind of, I mean, not everyone, some people have the luxury of just launching into all the A-list clubs. I was doing some grungy, sea-list clubs that are in shopping centers and, you know, strip malls. Yeah, yeah. Maybe they don't have super clean bathrooms. Well, not just that. They don't put you up at a hotel. They put you in the quote-unquote comedy. condo, which is a gross place. And I know that my germ issues developed in these grimy places that

the majority of comedians coming through were the bearded drunk comics that were crashing. Sleeping on your couch. Yeah. So that's where my issues were born. Honestly, I think that sounds pretty rational. Okay. Another one. One, two or three. I'm going to go. So one. What do you find most difficult to model for children in your life? Hmm. What do I find most difficult to model for children in my life? I am going to flip it to you.

Is that? Ah, yeah, sure, yeah. You can flip that. I just always come back to the fact that I'm an incredibly impatient person. Okay. a very impatient person. And it is my blind spot. And it is also the thing I have a hard time modeling for my kids is how to just move through life, accepting things that you can't control.

And that could be traffic. That could be the pace at which your father moves out of the house. That's a big one. Because their father, I love you so much, is constitutionally a slow-moving human. And I want to be everywhere early because who knows what could happen between point A and point B that could derail us and we would be late and that would be rude. And so I need to be in the car with an appropriate amount of buffer time. and Luke will just wait. Oh, now he needs a cup of coffee for the road,

but you need to warm the coffee holder with hot water first before you put it in. Oh, he might need to go to the bathroom. He hadn't thought about that, so we're going to do that. But he has a bald head. Maybe he needs a different kind of hat to go out. And so it's really, and then that becomes bad because I can't talk badly about their father in front of them. So I'm impatient sitting in the car waiting for him. And also I want to say negative things about him, but I can't.

do that. So those are two things. I have a hard time modeling for my kids. Oh, if you and Stephanie would get along just fine. Is she an early bird? Oh my gosh. Is she an early bird? She is. Yes, she is. And our son, Finn, Stephanie was filming a movie in London for almost two months. and my kids call me mayor, and I was in bed at 645, something like that. And then Stephanie had already been gone for two weeks. We had already been getting to school. We'd been doing everything was moving along just fine. But one morning he came in and he was like, Mayor, I'm making breakfast for myself.

Max hasn't eaten yet, and we have to be out the door by 740. And I was like, Finn, I know. He's like, okay, I was just letting you know. And like another day he was like, Mayor, today's swim at school. So we have to make sure our swimsuits and our towels are in the. And I'm like, I know. But, yeah, I show up for my stand-up shows. I walk in the back door maybe two minutes before.

showtime. Oh, God. And so my assistant is in touch with the venue, letting them know my ETA and, you know, and so I walk in the back door, I walk on stage, I do my show, and I walk out the back door. Efficiency. Efficiency. Yeah. You don't want to waste time. Honestly, I think it was from when I was so sick in 2012, and I had cancer, I had a intestinal disease. I had all sorts of stuff going on. And I remember after that, sitting in green rooms at comedy clubs, thinking, I don't need to be here before the show this long. Like, I'm adding up how much time of my life is sitting in a green room. Yeah.

So. You're like, I'm not going to do that anymore. Exactly. Yeah. I love that. Okay, but yeah, you have to answer this now. Okay, so as far as modeling, I just actually, when Stephanie was filming in London, I told her, I said, you know, the other day, and our kids are, nobody in our family is perfect.

But I would say our kids are really, they're really good. Like they listen to us. They're really sweet. They have their moments. They have their glitches. But we can't really complain about these two guys, you know. And when they have a little moment that all, I noticed. a tone in my voice I don't like, where I'm like, what do you, why would you do that kind of thing?

Like, what do you do it? Why would, and of course I'm human and things can be irritating and frustrating. But I was saying to Stephanie, I said, I just feel like we should probably just be really even more aware of how we all talk to each other, how we talk to our kids. And she said, absolutely, you're right. But again, I don't want to paint a picture like we're talking terribly to them or not to bring it to a totally dark place. But our friends lost their son when he was a little boy. And she, I remember, said, you know, I hear parents talking about how friends.

frustrated they get when their kids get up in the middle of the night and want to get in bed or they, you know, wake them up or, you know, and she said, I would give anything in the world for Georgie to wake me up in the night and want to get in bed with me. And that stuck with me so deeply. And it puts things into perspective when I can feel myself not being connected or present with something. And that's why. of those moments where I'm like, man, man, if anything ever happened, I'd give anything for my kid to be arguing with his brother or forgetting his homework or I would give anything to have a problem like that. And so that was a moment that I thought, I need to like really. think about how I'm responding to things in my life. Yeah. Okay. I'm so sorry about your friend. How long ago was that, that she lost her friend or so? That was three years ago, I believe.

And, yeah, he was, I believe he was nine at the time. Oh, good God. And he was a twin. He has a sister. But yeah, man, that really puts things into perspective. Yeah, for sure. And out of also respect and memory and love for their family, I want to do the right thing. Yep.

I will remember that for a long time. Yes. Okay. Last one in this round. one, two, or three. I'm going to do two. When do you feel most like an outsider? I feel most like an outsider. I mean, this is so Hollywood of me, but on a red carpet. I'm just like, get me out of here. And I feel like a terrible person, every time. time I'm at a red carpet, I'm like, I should have a pose. I should talk to somebody and figure out

what I'm supposed to do. Like Steve Jobs outfit, like just one thing that you do every time. Right. Oh, trust me, I have the outfit one time for everything. In fact, I had three red carpets this week that I had to go to. And Jess, the producer of the documentary, she was like, she said, so do you, like, do you get it clean between? And I was like, oh, no, no, no. I was like, no. This outfit got this suit got cleaned beginning of the week and then I'm just yeah I'm just you're just in it I'm in it I'm sleeping in it and I'm getting in another like even last night just was laughing at me because I got she was in the car service that pulled up to get me we were going to the governor's awards which is like if your project is in the conversation for the Oscars but I got in the car

in my recycled suit, saying, now where are we going? What is this? And she was like, oh, my God, you don't know what you're doing. You just get in the car with me. Put the suit on. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I told that to Stephanie, and as we were falling asleep last night, and she goes, that's how you get into every car. You don't know where are you going. She was like, Stephanie, she was like, guys, we're leaving in five minutes. I'm like, okay. And I get in the car. I'm like, where are we, what is happening? We're in, she's like, don't. We're going to baseball practice. But, but yeah, so I'm, I'm out of my, I'm out of my element there.

We're at the last round. Okay. This is the beliefs round. One, two, or three. Let's do one. One. What's the most religious thing about you? The most religious thing.

thing about me. I don't even know how to answer this. You can skip it. Oh, great. Let's do that. Skip it. Okay. Oh, but... Sorry, you don't escape the topic.

It's more specific. Okay. Have your feelings about God changed over time? You know, I... I am not a religious person. I was raised Catholic, but I was not raised in a house where nobody ever talked about religion. But honestly, after Andrea died, I've had a very, I had the honor of being with Andrea in Andrea's final days, and it was quite an experience.

I still feel like I'm on mushrooms or something with what I experienced, what I witnessed. And after Andrea died, I was so full of so much. And I was experiencing these what would be called signs. that I never really experienced before. And I've found myself open to not knowing what those signs and experiences are. And I guess it's the closest I've felt to anything remotely religious or spiritual. Yeah. And I'm just allowing myself to be in it.

Did you see the same sign over and over that represented something to you, or you saw things that reminded you of Andrea, that you couldn't dismiss as coincidence? Yeah, I think it was more that of that I couldn't dismiss as coincidence. And Steph Willen, who is, who pitched the idea to me. Steph is very similar to me in the way we view the world and respond to any kind of spirit. or religious event or idea. And she's, it's really putting us both to the test. And we have these kind of funny, awkward conversations where stuff made me laugh so hard. She was like, she said, TIG, I was outside and this hummingbird came over.

and I was like looking at it and would fly away and then fly closer and kind of hover around and stuff said and I swear to the guy. I was sitting there by myself and I just went, Andrea, like to the bird. Yeah. You know, she was like, you know, she said, but I was just sitting there by myself and was just like, Andrew, is that you? Like just, come on, is that? And that is not anything in a million years that you would have. That's not her thing. Yeah, right, right.

way in hell. She's not that person. No, but she's open and she's, you know, but it made me laugh so hard. Losing a person does that to you. I think, and I have experienced, you feel them in a different way and it is hard to dismiss it when you're open to it and it happens to you. And you're like, I just, every ounce of my rational self wants to dismiss this and it just feels like I can't because it's too profound. Cannot. And I also.

kind of don't even feel like Andrea is gone. It's that the depths of the experiences we've all been feeling is like, I mean, I know Andrea. Meg calls it Andrea's alleged passing. So that's where we're all kind of. But doesn't that make sense? I didn't know Andrea, but I knew Andrea's work. And if anyone had that capacity to linger around, wouldn't it have been them? Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. When my mom died, my mom always loved, I just called Say I Love You by Stevie Wonder. And so that was my thing. I mean, yes, radio stations play it. It's a song that is played. It's not like so exceptional. Yeah. It's not like some deep cut. But it would come on. in like the weirdest places, like for the first few weeks that she died. It would be like

elevators, the radio, like in a restaurant, bathroom, in a grocery store. And I was like, okay, I get it. Yeah. You just called to say you love me. I get it. Well, I had, I'm taken. I had a very crazy experience. Meg had come out to L.A. for a screening and stayed with me. and staff was there, and we were talking about this project we're all going to work on that is Andrea-related that we're very excited about. So we spent this time like, okay, this is the idea and just ruminating. Let's not make any quick moves. Let's just really think about this and see if it feels right. and then Meg leaves, and then I go to London with my sons to visit Stephanie. And the first day we woke up.

And if you remember in the documentary, Meg and Andrea's song was You're Still the One by Shania Twain. And I land in London with Max and Finn, our sons. I take them into the village of the little area where we were. where our hotel was. And this is our first day. And we walk into the town. Very tiny little village.

There is a man standing alone singing at the top of his lungs. You're still the one by Shania Twain. And it just stopped me in my tracks. I was like, oh my God. I said, Max and Finn. I said, this is Andrea and Meg's song. And I got my phone out and just got this foot. of the back of my sons, their little heads watching and like really taking in.

They're like, whoa, wow. And they just quietly watched. This man saying it so beautifully. And then the very next day, Stephanie's mother had come in town and we were meeting her and Stephanie for high tea, of course, because we were in England. Yes. And this woman comes in to the cafe. and plops down this gigantic harp.

And we're all, like, laughing. Like, oh, boy, here goes our high tea. No. Yes. Just stop. Yes. The first song. You're still the one on the harp?

On the harp. And I got my phone out and I film it. And I turn to Max and Finn. And I said, do you know what this is? And they were stunned. These two little nine-year-olds, they said, that's Meg and Andrea's song.

And I said, okay, so I'm not losing my mind? Yeah, right, right, right, right. You're the witness. I have both examples on video. And I sent it to Meg the first day. I sent her the man singing alone. And she said, I am weeping. I'm weeping.

And then the next day I said, Meg, I don't even know what to do I was like this this was this woman plops a harp down and plays this and she was just

she said well I'm going to take this as Andrea followed your family to London and is giving the okay for us to move forward with our idea and plan and I was like

I'll take it yeah it was unbelievable yeah that yeah She was talking to you. Okay.

One, two, three. Stolen beliefs. Two. What does it mean to live a good life? Well, one of my favorite things, one of the sayings that I heard that I was like, man, I love that, is the best gift a parent can give a child. is a well-lived life of their own. And I just thought, gosh, that is so true. Like when your parents are healthy, free, living their lives, independent, just thriving.

As a kid, like you, but when I read that quote, I just kind of loosened it up and was like, the best gift you can give anyone is a well-lived life of your own. And it just goes in every direction, and it's the perfect equation to freedom and joy. And that's the most joy I can hope for is when people are living a great life, it makes my life all the better. The people that I love. I love that answer. Yeah. basically said the best life you could live, your ingredients for a good life are when the people

you love are good, are living their best life. Yeah, you don't feel a version of it. When people aren't living a good life, and I mean, I guess somebody could say, oh, that's codependent of you. I don't see it as that. I see it as, you know, there's, you can't. I can't ignore the fact that you get weighed down when those that you love are suffering or struggling or they're stuck in some way in life. And I've been stuck, my brother's been stuck, our parents were stuck in their different ways.

And I try so hard to eliminate stress to be as healthy as I can be to pursue what makes me happy because I know that's going to make my kids ultimately happy in their life as if they don't have to worry about me. And that brings me joy. Like I just don't want to weigh them down. And yeah, so I think about that a lot. It's a good one. It's our last one. Three. One, two, or three. Three. What's a detail you'd like in your obit? I always think it's so funny when people die. And, well, I'm not going to end the sentence there.

I mean, you did pitch the movie as like a funny movie, you know. Yes, I know. But it always makes me laugh when people say, she had her sense of humor to the end. And I always thought it would be so funny to put in my obituary that I lost my sense of humor in the end. And unfortunately, she did lose her sense of humor in the end. And I have to say, like, to go back to Andrea, one of my – and Andrea was, as I said, one of the funniest people I knew and was all. and was also one of the best people to laugh with.

I mean, really got it. And one of my favorite things about Andrea was the lines on their face. Like when they smiled, like it lifted, like, just these incredible lines. But at the end of Andrea's life, God, I was so full of emotion and I wanted to be close to Andrea and I and I pictured my, I talked to my therapist about like, gosh, you know, I just, I just want to crawl in bed with Andrea when I get to their house and I just want to be close to them. And when I got there and I crawled in bed to be right next to Andrea, Andrea turned.

turned so weak. I mean, this is like three days before the end. Andrea turned and pointed to his very mysterious stain on the sheets and said, I don't know what this is, but we'll just blame it on Meg, okay? to crawl into bed with all of the heavy emotions. Yeah. And then have my friend turn and say something that just hit me from behind so hard. I laughed so deeply.

Just like, oh, my. Talk about somebody not losing their sense of humor in the end. But yeah, I think I'd like that to be. I would love for somebody to say, I lost my sense of humor and then. We end the show the same way every time. With a trip in our memory time machine, you go back in time to one moment from your past. It's not a moment you would change anything about. It's just a moment you'd like to linger in a little longer.

Which moment do you choose? I think I would like to linger. in my, I'd like to linger on my wedding day. Yeah. Yeah. We did our wedding exactly how we wanted to do it. And our parents, siblings, friends, everybody was on board. It was already a non-traditional wedding.

And we got married in small town, Mississippi. and our friends flew in from the East Coast and West Coast, not just to support us, but also we heard so many times, like, I was not going to miss a gay wedding in the deep south. Like, how's that going to go? So, and it was just so beautiful, and it was so celebratory and so joyful. And if I can say one specific moment from that day that was so special. all. Yeah. My stepfather, who has since passed away, when my mother died, everything really fell on him as a parent. You know, obviously I was, I was grown, my brother and I were grown, but

he was a very removed, stoic person, and he, we weren't very close. He was basically my father since I was two and but just didn't understand my artistic ways my you know failure dropout path any of that um but he was never he was always loving and accepting you know of me being gay and my girlfriends and whatever but he had a everything had to be a particular way and you tuck your shirt in and you act this way, you say this, you do this. And on my wedding day, it was such a sweet moment. I was in a suit and a button-down shirt, but I wasn't wearing a tie. And in his mind, you have a suit on. You should have a tie on. And he said, TIG, would you like to wear my tie? Because in his mind, that was the appropriate way to be dressed.

And I said, oh, Rick, I'm not really a tie person. And he said, okay. He said, well, I just wanted to offer my tie to you in case you wanted one. And it was him, even though he slightly missed the mark of what my fashion sense was, it was him. Oh, but it was a lovely gesture. It was such an amazing gesture because it wasn't him thinking like it wasn't anything of like you're not. He wasn't trying to fix you. No.

No. Not in any way at all. You know, and he picked up the slack of it was, he went cake shopping and tasting with Stephanie's mother and sister and me and my brother. They all like, my brother and stepfather showed up in such a. away, like, planning the wedding with Stephanie's mother. And it was just really beautiful. I would hang out. It's more than a moment.

It's that whole thing. Did I see that you guys celebrated an anniversary recently? Yeah. We're going on 13 years together, but we just celebrated 10 years married. And, yeah. Thank you. I'm very, very lucky. Tick Nataro, she produced the new film, the documentary about the poet Andrea Gibson.

It is called Come See Me in the Good Light, and you can see it now on Apple TV. Thank you so much for TIG. It was really great to talk with you. Thank you. Thanks for having me. If you like this episode, check out my conversation with Mike Verbiglia. Like TIG, Mike uses comedy to process and find lightness in some of life's toughest challenges, from parenthood to grief. You can watch that conversation with Mike, along with this episode. with Tignitaro or any of our recent conversations on our YouTube channel.

Just search for at NPR Wildcard. Today's episode was produced by Summer to Mod and edited by Dave Blanchard. It was mastered by Patrick Murray and Robert Rodriguez. Wildcard's executive producer is Yolanda Sangweni, and the theme music is by Romteen Arablewee. You can reach out to us at Wildcard at npr.org. We're going to shuffle the deck and be back with more next week. Talk to you then.