Wild Card with Rachel Martin - Tracee Ellis Ross (Live)

Episode Date: July 16, 2026

"Are you willing to be responsible for your own happiness?" Tracee Ellis Ross asks in this episode, recorded with a live audience at LAist. Tracee is all about actively choosing the life you want to lead. She talks to Rachel about those pivotal choices in her own life, growing up with Diana Ross as her mom, and the power of a good dog. Tracee’s show “Solo Traveling” is back with a second season.To listen sponsor-free and support the show, sign up for Wild Card+ at plus.npr.org/wildcardSee pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences.NPR Privacy Policy

Hey folks, just a heads up. This episode was taped in front of a live audience in Pasadena, California. You can watch this episode on our YouTube channel, and I really think you should. You need to see Tracy laugh to really appreciate her essence. Just search for NPR Wildcard on YouTube. And while you're there, subscribe to the channel so you can be sure not to miss an episode. What did you reject as a teenager? I didn't drink at all. I didn't smoke a cigarette. And I didn't smoke a cigarette. And I I've never tried a drug. You're not one of these public figures in L.A. who goes on ayahuasca tricks.

Oh, I can think of nothing worse. Like, nothing worse. Benadryl makes me uncomfortable. I'm like, why do I feel like this? I'm Rachel Martin, and this is Wild Card, the show where cards control the conversation. Each week, my guest answers questions about their life. Questions pulled from a deck of cards. They're allowed to skip one question and to flip one question.

question back on me. My guest this week is Tracy Ellis Ross. My life is mine, which as a woman is not easy to own. And not only is my life mine, my body is mine, my ideas can be mine. Tracy Ellis Ross is a supremely talented actor. You've seen her on the hit show Blackish and before that girlfriends. She's also a style icon, the CEO of her own beauty line, a newly minted Broadway star, and host of the TV show solo traveling with Tracy Ellis Ross, which returns for a new season this month. But most importantly, Tracy Ellis Ross is a supremely good time. I know this because I got to spend time with her the live taping of our show in Pasadena with our friends from LAist. Tracy is a deep thinker, an excellent storyteller, and she is just game for life in a way that's contagious.

We're going to play a game. I'm excited. Okay, here we go. Okay. First three cards, Tracy. In the memories round, one, two, or three? Two. Two. When you were bored as a kid, where would your imagination take you? Ha-ha, to the closet. Didn't even hesitate. Absolutely.

This was a very young preoccupation. I always loved pretty things. Oh, really? Yeah. Well, let's see. Your mom had some pretty stuff to play with. Aye. Oh.

Yeah, my imagination, well, it's funny. I mean, three things pop into my mind. Clothes playing dress-up, which sometimes turned into different characters. And when you say young, you mean like 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13. Well, I mean 53, anything younger than now. So I would play dress up, which I loved. And I think it was one of the ways that I, kind of became myself.

It was like sort of adorning who I was wanting to become, you know. I also loved to dream of my wedding. Did you? Or my funeral. Oh, fascinating. It was either everyone was celebrating that I was being loved the way I should be or everyone was crying that they hadn't loved me the way they should have. Listen, I'm an actress, I'm a performer and an artist at heart, I'm dramatic.

I mean, at the same time, I would also, I remember laying on my floor and my closet, the mirror, you know, was on the inside of the closet, and I would lay on the floor and cry and watch my face cry. and I would see him and the tears who dropped out I mean did you really

absolutely and what happens your parents come in and like oh god Tracy now I mean you know my sister I remember one thing

I was constantly trying on clothes and my sister she was trying to come in I was like I'm naked and Cheney said what are you doing

I said I'm trying on an outfit and she goes my God you're always trying on an outfit I said Chuddy you never know when you're going to get hit with something good. You got to just play.

I mean, like, it was always, I was dramatic, obviously. Okay? I've settled a bit. But it's a little. It's just a little. But so, I mean, I had a... You had a big imagination. I had a big imagination.

I still have a big imagination. I love that. Okay. Okay, next one. Mm-hmm. One, two, or three. I want, one, one, one. One.

One. One. When's a moment in your life when you could have chosen a different path? What reaction? It's so affirming. It is. It's so affirming. Good one.

Ah. It's so good. When I could have chosen a different path. Are you editing? Yeah. Yeah. What happens? I was thinking relationships is what...

Yeah, you can answer it however you want. I just think of... Let it come. Let it come. I just think of all the relationships that I desperately wanted to work. And I'm so glad they didn't. Yeah. So when I got out of college, during college,

I was modeling a little bit. Yeah. And Mirabella Magazine, I don't know if anyone remembers that. Oh, this is a nice age group. Thank you. Isn't it, though? I feel really good. Thank you so much.

So I had gone in for a model call, and I ended up meeting Grace Mirabella and Jade Hopson Charnan, who were the editor-in-chief and creative director of the magazine. And they were like, would you ever want to be an intern or come as an editor? And so when I graduated from Brown University, I went into, this is a very affirming audience. I've had so many lives. I became a stylist. And I worked at Mirabella Magazine. I met my best friend there, Samira Nasser, who's the editor-in-chief of Harper's Bazaar now.

And so I was a fashion editor. We left Mirabella Magazine and went to New York Magazine together, the two of us with Jade Hops and Charnin. And I worked there for quite a while. And I had this, I was an acting class at the time, but I had this realization that as much as I loved clothes, that it wasn't enough of a form of expression for me, that I couldn't tell enough of my story through clothing and that I was going to continue telling those stories on myself, but that I wasn't going to do it externally for other people. And so that was a turning point. And I could have gone in that direction and been a fashion. editor and a stylist or, you know, but I did not. And then came to L.A. and jumped off the cliff. Plus, I feel like you could still do that if you still wanted to. I do it on myself. I mean, you know, this is, this is me getting dressed. It's worked out. Yeah. Okay. So now the third question

in this round, we are going to let you guys decide. So my friend and producer, Summer Tomad, is going to take the stage with summer a beautiful flipboard. Okay, so now, guys, summer's going to flip it and there's going to be three questions on it. I can't see it. No, you can look at it. Okay, okay, okay. Okay, here we go. So, you can read.

I will also read. Number one, what did you reject as a teenager? Number two, what's an early memory of appreciating beauty or number three? When's the time you realized you were on the right? path. So now, by your applause, we're going to vote. Okay, so do your Vanna White thing. Number one, what did you reject as a teenager? It's a lot of enthusiasm for that. Number two, it's an early memory of appreciating beauty. Number three, when the time you realized you're on the right crowd. I felt like it was number one. I feel like it's number one. What did you reject as a teenager,

Tracy? What did I reject? Oh, I mean, I didn't drink at all. I didn't smoke a cigarette, and I've never tried a drug. You rejected all those things. I rejected it all. You rejected the trappings of... I genuinely did. Adolescence.

I had not an interest in the world, and if I was near anyone doing it, I was scared to death and would walk away. Absolutely. To this day, it freaks me out. So how come? How did that happen? I don't know. I don't like... I personally don't have any interest in being in an altered state.

My experience of being me is quite an altered state. You're not one of these public figures in L.A. who goes on ayahuasca trips. Oh, God. I could think of nothing worse. Like, nothing worse. Like, not at all. Really? No, that is just not my thing. Like, Benadryl makes me uncomfortable. I'm like, why do I feel like this? No, I'm really not that person.

Like, I'm really not. Like, I really like alcohol, mostly because I like stem wear. Like, honestly, like, I'm like, but, oh, that I just feels a grown up. You know what I mean? Like, it's like a high heel and a glass, woo! You know? I also just had another memory. Give it to me.

I remember as a young girl, so this was Dalton, so I was, it was, it was, maybe fifth, sixth grade, somewhere in there, fifth, sixth, seventh. People were staring at me, and I think I was the only black girl of my friends. And I remember making a very clear decision. And it was a choice that they were staring at me because I was gorgeous. Now, yeah, I really made that choice. Now, I tell you again, that this is. is not a linear situation. I have gone two steps forward and 83 back many a time. I am

susceptible to all of what society throws at us. I've taken it all. It has taken me down. I've stood back up. I've done, I've, I've been through and continue, especially at this age, to experience that very loud information that we have to fight against. You know, I'm a face with not any Botox and no fillers and no nothing, you know. And I don't say that because I have any judgment of anybody who does those things. But I say that because patriarchy can seep in in many ways and places no matter how sturdy you are in your soul. And so that choice I made was really interesting to me because I do remember it as a choice. I do you.

I really do. And I was quite young. I remember other things, too. I remember teaching myself how to smile so that my top lip would go away and look like the other girls. I can do it now. Isn't that so funny?

All I wanted was to have a better top lip. Yeah, I mean... I used to try to smile like this. So, because line is as aware. Yeah, so I mean, I literally, I was like, you know, I used to do to my... I used to grab my tush and walk. and if I could still hold it in my hand,

I, in my head, thought that was part of my skin I didn't need. That was part of my body I didn't need. Yes. You know, and that's not, it wasn't coming from my mother. Do you know what I mean? So it was the things that seep in. And so it's a back and forth. It's a very fluid conversation that I'm always having with myself.

But I do have a sense of, I don't know what one would call it, that I said that to myself. I didn't, I wouldn't let it be, I wouldn't believe that it was that I was somehow less than. I wouldn't let that be the case. Or you were going to be othered, but it was because of this exceptional feature because you were beautiful. Correct.

That's what I decided. And I really did make that decision. And I mean, you know, when I was modeling, there's so many, I remember the head of, the agency remains nameless wrote on my compas

you know my like what do you call the contact sheet face 2 angular doesn't know how to use it I mean I held you saw that they sent it back to me they send it like feedback

like constructive feedback I don't know what they thought I'm like well I can't change the angular but it is what it is I guess I better use learn how to use my angles Hence why I'm like, this is my good side. I don't know. I mean, there's so many of those.

We all have them. We all have so many of those moments, those stories, those things. And somehow the negative comments are Velcro. The good comments kind of slide off your back. I don't know why that is. You know, I can say you read comments on social media and you will repeat it to somebody and say, everyone's saying. It was one comment.

And you will say, everyone's saying. It's not true. Solo traveling with Tracy Alice Ross. That's me. It is fantastic. Thank you. And when I saw, I saw Instagram clips of it, and then I actually saw the show. So the whole premise of the show, if you haven't seen it, is that there is a big, wide world out there.

Can you be yourself, by yourself out in the world? Yeah. So that's really the premise of the show. And then underneath that is, can you, are you willing to, you, are you willing to, let your life be your own? Are you willing to be responsible for your own happiness? And I really do feel like solo travel is either the trip you're going to take or it's the journey you're going to choose. And it's really about an internal experience, whether you're in a partnership or not, of knowing yourself and learning yourself and then letting yourself enjoy yourself,

that delight that you can find on your own. And I think societally as women, as black women, we are taught culturally to take care of everyone else, to put other people's needs first. And that is a beautiful part of being of service to those that we love, but there's also the act of being of service to ourselves. And so the show is sort of a metaphor for that, but it's also the beautiful trip that you get to take in the fun and sort of, don't get me wrong. I do luxurious things. The locations that I go are luxurious. I travel luxuriously, but I do think that luxury is not about how much things cost. Luxury is the time and the space that you give yourself. And the attention to yourself. And so,

yes, when I travel, I do take care of myself. But that's born out of the fact that in life, I really do take care of myself. And it's come, honestly, I've been, I'm single and I've been single, and I have not yet met that partner, that person, that man that I want to be with that feels like an addition. But in these years of not having a partner, I have had the space to really discover my own self and to learn what I do love and not wait for a people, a place, or a thing to seek the life that I want to live. When I was young, I haven't done a lot of solo traveling for fun, but I had jobs where I lived alone if I was posted at a foreign bureau. And I was I love that expression. You sound so cool. I was hosted at a foreign bureau.

No, I was to say it. I really was. It doesn't sound pretentious. You sound like you're on the diplomat. I'm like, oh my God, I want to know her. What did you wear? Did you wear a comfortable shoe? Was it a cross-body bag? Like, what are we talking about? Okay. Public radio, baby. Public The opposite of stylish. I think I had a timbrecht two bag, though. But that's what I'm saying, a cross-body for like ease and comfort. Did you always have everything with you? Like, you know what I mean? But anyway, please, I'm sorry. I learned how to eat alone, which is a specific skill. And I was very weirded out by it when I was younger. And I wasn't like super young, but I was in like my, you know, mid-20s.

And I remember I was in Berlin and I was like buying. She's just really saying all those things. You too can go there. I mean, but I go on assignment. And you should go to this pizza place in. Mita, and they made me feel so taking care of, and I stopped being scared of it. But it really, I think everybody should learn how to eat by themselves. You know, that's actually one of the things I tell people is if you have an interest in solo travel, but you're nervous, there are things

you can do to kind of step your way there. And one is to start by having dinner by yourself. If that is even too much, you can start by going to the movies by yourself because it's dark. but you can sort of step your way into it. And I say to people, start with 5.30 dinner when the restaurant opens on a weekday. The graduate program is a Saturday night at 8 o'clock. And if you can do that and start... And like order dessert.

Exactly. And sit there. Now, can I tell you, may I... Will you indulge me with a story? Now, I am now 53. I have done a show called Solo Traveling with Tracy Ellis Ross. And on my last trip to it, I went for work and I had days in between before my next stop.

And I was like, I'm going to stay for three days. I'm a solo traveler. I'm going to make my plan my dinners. And I went to a restaurant. And as I was leaving the hotel, he said, You don't have no, you are meeting someone? And I said, no, I'm not meeting anyone. Oh, okay, no, maybe later.

No, not meeting anyone later. I go to the restaurant, but you're by yourself. I said, yes, I am. I'm by myself. Oh, okay. So they sit me down at the table. No one comes. I'm just sitting there.

And I was like, they're like, oh, you're just you. I said, yes, it's just me. Okay. So he comes with the menu. He's like, what would you like? No wine? Nope, no wine. Cocktail?

No cocktail. It's just me. I just want to get the dinner. Then I'm going to go back to the hotel because I've had enough of this. And he said, I said, can I get the C-Bess? Oh, well, it's for two. Come on. Swear to God.

It kept going. He said, bod, it's for two. And I said, maybe I'll eat what I can. No, no, it's for sharing. Okay, okay. Could I get that? But it's also for two. I was like, is this a fucking joke?

Like, what is happening? So I said, could I get two sides? Yes, yes, yeah. So they bring me the slides, whatever. By the time I got back to my hotel, I was like, you know what? My little God-sized hole inside of me is a little wounded right now. And I tomorrow night am going to order room service. But that's also part of it is like sometimes it doesn't go as planned.

Sometimes it actually triggers the things that don't feel so good. And then you can make another choice. You don't have to keep going into the wound. You can actually make a different choice. And I sat there with my iPad and I watched industry and I ordered past in my room. Do you want to talk about how you dress yourself? Yes, please. Because it's also part of the self-care.

Yeah. And I love that idea. I was single for many, many years. and lived alone and sometimes just the act of like, I am taking myself to dinner and I am going to pick clothes that make me feel good, that make me feel powerful and beautiful, and treat myself. And that's like you're every day. At least it seems like it on the show.

Yeah, I just feel like I am the special occasion. Yeah. You know, and I like to feel comfortable, but I like to feel beautiful, sometimes my clothes make me feel powerful. You know, clothing started as an armor for me, a way that I was kind of, I didn't know it at the time, but I was defending myself against sexism, racism, and all of the things, misogy noir, like the whole thing.

But I didn't know that that's what was coming at me. I took it personally. And I think some of it is because I, you know, I come from money. I come from fame. I'm just all, you know, like there are all those things that sort of were protecting me from a lot of the sexism, racism, and all of those things. But still out in the world, I was just a black girl. And so clothing was one of the ways that I felt that I could kind of present to the world that I mattered.

And it has become a form of creative expression for me that is how I wear my insides on the outside. and how I tell myself I matter. And it's just a way that I honor myself and listen to my inner voice and what makes my... I mean, in the morning, it's so funny, I go into my closet, and it's sort of like,

I'm going to start with pants. I'm like, no, no, today it's all about the shoes. You know, and something forms out of that. Like today, you know, I told you I have bad knees. And so I knew I wanted to wear a flat. It started with the shoe. It started with the shoe. Yeah.

But I thought I was going to wear a different flat because I thought I was going to wear a different outfit. And then I saw the background and I was like, hmm, I don't know about that. Did someone just, did you guys see how our shoes match the background? But we didn't plan it. Didn't not plan. Just divine magic.

Yes, divine magic. And I told you this before, but I'll say it, on the mic in front of the people, really nice dress. Oh, God. Please. Really nice dress, Rachel. Thank you.

Okay. I'm not going to lie. It's a little stressy to be like, I'm going to be on Straito's Fair Tales. I'm sorry, it should not be stressing. No, it's 0% stress. No, it should be joyful. We're moving to round two. Insights.

I feel like we've already heard some. Okay, yeah. Okay. One, two, or three? Well, I've done two and one, so let's do three. Okay, why not? Okay. When have you been in over your head?

Oh, ho, ho! So many times. Do you not get stressed out about that? Is that just your modus operandi? Like, I don't know how I'm going to do that. And I could be overwhelmed. And I'm just going to go through that door anyway. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. From a young age, I was in high-stakes scary scenarios. Not scary as in my life is in danger. but my mom's dying or else. So, you know, you leave... With security. I mean, people would bang on the limo

when we would go places. I said limo because it was then, you know, now you say SUV, I don't know. You know, it was that, that... I mean... That's strange. That's a strange way to grow up. It's a strange way to grow up.

So I learned how to manage my own fear. I'm still making sense of that, working with it, you know, all these things. But then I chose a career where it's, I mean, you host the American Music Awards live. It's a little scary, you know, anxiety-provoking. It's not scary. And I face my fears on a regular basis. Can you read the question again?

Yeah. When have you been in over your head? Just all the time. But it doesn't bother me. Yeah. Well, that's interesting bit. Yeah, it really doesn't. I mean, I was just thinking of when I did the movie The High Note,

I was playing a music star, and I had to sing. It had to be as if I had put out many albums throughout my career. I had to go in the studio. I had to record music. I had to, even some of the performances within the movie, I was on a stage with an audience. Yes, they were, you know, background players and people that knew that they were coming,

they hadn't bought tickets to come and see me. But I had a live mic, and I was singing the songs that I'd learned that apparently were Grace's songs. And, you know, when I was 22, my mom said to me, it's time for you to do an album. And I decided to be a comedian. You see what I did there? Took a different path, one that I could own.

You know what I mean? I mean, that's a little scary, no? I mean, just think, you know, 22, 72 to 82, 82 to 92. So, 1992, I had done modeling and all these big things. I've had so many lives already thinking back. And that terrified me. I had sang in high school, and I had sang in talent shows, and it was terrifying. It was terrifying.

Every time I opened my mouth to sing, I knew everybody was listening to, am I as good as her? For sure. You know? And it was terrifying for me. But I will tell you the full circle moment of that, which I told when I was doing press for that movie, which was so wonderful, is that I, when I had the first song completed, I drove to my mom's house and we sat in my car because music people love playing their music in the car because it's like surrounds.

It's true. It's actually really, it's weird. Because you're like, are you listening to yourself? Like, I don't understand what's happening. But so it's like a thing. So I like brought my mom. I pulled her up to her house. She got in the car and we listened to the song.

And she held my hand and she looked at me with tears and her eyes like a booby. Anyway, she looked at me with tears in her eyes and she said finally. Oh. I mean it's so, it's so like, geez Louise, but like geez Louise, you know. So yes, I do, I lean into them. And I think that's how I get bigger every time, how I grow every time. how I learn to really belong to myself. Do you new cards?

One, two or three? Two. How do you see your parents showing up in you? Let's talk about my dad, my sweet dad. Bob. Bob Ellis. How's your dad show up in you? I mean, well, my nose first off.

My sense of humor is my dad's. Is it? Yeah. It's literally like, I mean, the other day I was talking to my dad while I was driving, and I stopped and I was like, Dad, is it weird that you're talking to yourself? He was like, it's the weirdest thing in the world. And I remember when I was young, my mom always used to say, I don't understand. I divorced this man.

How is he sitting next to me? I'm just so, I'm so much like him. I'm so much like my dad. So we have the same sense of humor. We get really revved up in the same way. Like, don't put us with your kids before bedtime. You know what I mean? It sounds like you two are conspiratorial.

Yeah, we're just like, I don't know. He's a very special human. He's delightful. He is a delightful human being. It's good company. He's great company. He has the same, I have the same love of detail that he has. You know, like when he came and saw my new house, like, he was like, ah, don't rush me.

You know what I mean? He was like, it's like just absorbing every, like, every nook, every cranny. Does he appreciate the aesthetics like you do? He does. And like, I just went and saw his apartment because him and his wife just moved into, my stepmom just moved into a new apartment. And I was like, oh, my God, it was going everywhere. And, you know, my dad and I are both very neat and very organized and very clean. And I went to his apartment and I was like, my God, I feel like I could eat.

this floor. Like I just, it's like, I was in his closet. Everything is folded just so. And I was like, oh my God. It's like, it's like my dream. It's like, it's like so good. Everything is just a hoot and a and a hoot and a hoot and a hoot. Yeah, so I'm so much like my dad in all those ways, in all those ways. It's so sweet. Also, I will tell you the best part of how my dad shows up in me. Say more. Swear to God. He's the one with the beauty routines. Oh, my God.

My father. Your dad? And Diana Ross? And he's the one with the beauty? He is the one with the beauty routines. I'm telling you right now. My dad early was like, always swipe up. Swipe up, daughter.

Don't swipe down. So the two of us constantly are like trading things back and forth. It is hilarious. The other day, I was trying to explain to him how to do lymphatic on my face. And he was like, I don't understand. Slow down. I don't understand. Slow down, slow down, slow down. And I was like, do you want me to just FaceTime you? He said, yes. He said, yes. He's just turned 80. Okay. I said, yes. I'll face time. So I sit the phone in front of my sink like I'm doing a TikTok or something. And I'm doing my face routine for my dad. And he was like, you gotta send me those things. Yeah. So you had lovely parents. Oh my God. Oh my God. Lovely parents. But my dad didn't raise me. My mom raised me. My dad did not raise me. I have much closer relationship.

He was always around. My parents have stayed friends. I don't, they divorced when I was around seven, I think. My mom, you know, you all know who she is, but she's a very present, very, just the lady who woke us up for school and put us to bed and sat with us for dinner and with breakfast and, you know. Yeah, I was a mom. Yeah.

I mean, she is my mom. She is your mom. She's not a was. She's in his, yeah. season is. There's a special thing that we did. We sent questions to you all.

And some of you wrote your answers to them. And they're round two questions, insights. And so I thought I would read a couple here. And the question is, what have you learned to take less seriously? Which is a good

round two question. What is your answer to question. Myself. Yeah. Yeah. Isn't that a good one? Yeah, very much so. Yeah.

Harder when you're younger. It is. Yeah. You learn it in time. Mistakes stop being so high about what other people thinking. We stop caring what other people can do. Yeah. Okay.

We don't have names attached to these, but the first answer is, I take many things less seriously after surviving breast cancer, but mostly running late and being messy. I am much more accepting of both. I used to be so hard on myself, but after going through cancer treatment, I don't stress over those two things. Who cares? I am here alive and healthy. Amen to that. I love that.

Thank you for sharing that. Thank you for sharing that, whoever that was. Next one. Ah, thank you for sharing that. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah. I've learned to take urgent demands less seriously and time in general. There's a time for everything.

I can't go faster than I'm able. I love this one so much. I love that too much. Because I made a recent decision after leaving morning edition on purpose that I needed to be slow. Does someone want to raise their hand? Who was this? This is a lovely one. Oh, this is lovely. To take life slower, to move with intention through your day and to just like, oh, I try to check myself all the time because I get so stressed and in the car and I'm late and do-d-d-do-do-do. I agree. It's toxic. Yeah, I always, my favorite, it's one of the, like, one of the questions. as I asked myself at an end of a day is like, how did you honor yourself? And like, you know, and one of the things that comes up when I think I did well is I moved at the pace of my nervous system.

Oh, that's a good one. As opposed to the demands of my day. And the other, I actually learned that from Anthony on Blackish. Oh, really? Yeah, we would come out of our trailer and we always waited for each other before walking to set. And I would always be like, barreling to set because I hate when people are waiting for me. And he would walk someone and say, Anthony, what are you doing? He's like, they can't start until we get there.

And he wasn't, but he wasn't, he wasn't, being a jerk about it. He wasn't being a jerk and he wasn't, he wasn't moving at a pace like, you know, I'm going to move. He was just walking intentionally. Yeah. And it taught me something. And when I'm really, there's too much in my day, I do say to myself, move, at least you can move slowly from A to B. Yeah. You don't have to run from A to B.

and the truth is when you slow down, you actually get more done. Yeah. And your better version of yourself, when you show up to the thing that you're supposed to be present for. It's not easy. It's easier said than done. And, you know, just because we know better doesn't mean we do better. No. But I do.

It's such a good reminder. It's such a good reminder. Okay, this one's good. I love that. Thank you. What have you learned to take less seriously? Timelines for life events, parentheses, marriage, kids. Yes.

Surrender those timelines. Last one. What have you learned to take less seriously? Other people's troubles. This is a tough one for a lot of people. Support is one thing trying to fix things for others in most cases is not my place. This is a hard thing for the helpers among us. I love that expression we don't do for others what they can do for themselves. Yeah. Yeah. Or give from the overflow. Which is not always the case. You know, I mean, when you're being of service to somebody who's not well, when you have a loved one who's not well, when you have a loved one who's not, well, these are, you know, easier said than done. But it's that old metaphor, you put your life mask, your, you know, oxygen mask on first, or you can't be of service to anyone else.

Thank you for sharing all those. Yeah, that was really beautiful. It was really, really nice. So we're moving to our last round, folks. Last round, this one's my favorite. This is lovely. Mainly because the cards are orange and I think they're pretty. Do your friends call you Rach?

Oh, my God. I mean, I don't know why I reacted that way. Some of them do. It's just when I was little. When I was little, I didn't like it. Yeah. And so I told my siblings to stop calling me, Rach. And then my brother responded by saying, okay, Rach, oh.

Oh, my God. There's nothing like a sibling. There is nothing like a sibling. Why do you like, what do you like, what do you like to be called? You can call me, Rach. No, I was asking, like, like, Rachel is here with me and I call her Rachel all the time. Yeah.

Or Lady Carton. But I didn't want to, you know, I want to call you by the name you want to be called. Rachel. Rachel. Dame Rachel. Dame Rachel? That works. That works.

Duchess Rachel. Rachel's bang. Yeah. I mostly like Tracy, but I have someone who calls me Rossi. Oh, that's cute. Yeah. No, I was really bombed. I didn't have a nickname when I was growing up.

Do you have a middle name? Do you have a middle name? and I went to Girl Scout camp with my friend Rachel Roar, whose name was also Rachel. And when we got an assignment to put our nicknames, this was the assignment. Stamp your nickname into this leather keychain with like a leather stamp. And I had an existential crisis because I did not have a nickname. So I looked over at Rachel Roer. And you asked what?

And Rachel Roar was stamping in the letters R-O-C-K-Y. And I was like, that is a cool-ass nickname. So you had the same nickname? I put Rocky. on my keychain and brought it home to my mom. And she was like, who was Rocky? I'm like, it's my new nickname. Up, up, up, up.

That's hilarious. You have a middle name? Elizabeth. Elizabeth. And you weren't working with that one, right? No, I told a babysitter once. My name was Liz. I was trying it on for size.

Yeah. It didn't stick. Yeah. I'm just Rachel. That's fine. It's good. I like my name. It suits me.

Okay. It does suit you. Thanks. One, two, or three? Two, I'm like, in the twos. Two. How do you tap into something bigger than yourself?

I do believe there is something bigger than me. I am really grateful that I do. I did not always know that. It has taken the octopus off my face because I feel like my feelings were facts. You know, it was, you know, and say more about that. What does that mean? In what way? It was hard for me to see beyond myself.

And I remember somebody asking me, like, do you try and figure out how the light turns on when you do the switch? And I'm like, no. So do you need to know how electricity works? No. So can you believe that there is something bigger than you? A higher power that, you know,

is not just run by what I am shouldering, what I have to get done take care of, be responsible for. I have made a practice of not sharing the specifics of my spiritual life, because those are very sacred and private for me. But you have one. I have one. I do, I do.

And I'd be lost without it. And I was lost without it. So it has been a relatively recent evolution for you? No, I wouldn't say recent. Good 20 years or so. 20, 25 years, something like that. Yeah. But I wasn't a child that had this big spiritual life, you know.

And I, yeah. You built it for yourself. Oh, I built it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's something that I talk about and I've spoken about a lot publicly and I had to think about why I speak about it publicly. But this idea of being the chooser.

and I, as opposed to waiting to be chosen. And the reason I think I started talking about it so much publicly is that I spent eight years on the show of girlfriends, 173 episodes, 22 to 24 a year, for eight years, speaking the language and the voice of somebody who was waiting to be chosen over and over and over and over again. Wow. Weeping about it.

Yeah. having this huge life and not feeling worthy because she hadn't been chosen. Oh my God. I didn't think about the psychic imprint of doing that. Neither did I. Yeah, yeah. And I really had to untangle myself out of that belief system. And, you know, it didn't come from nowhere.

I was playing a role that mirrors what society tells women. And what an awful thing to have to reconcile if you are, are a person who has not yet been chosen. You know, I remember when I started doing press for girlfriends, one of the journalists asking me, he's like, but who's going to believe that you wouldn't be in a relationship? And I was like, well, I'm not. I'm not lying.

Like, you know, I mean, like Tracy, like Joan was not in a relationship, but I'm like... Your character, yeah. I mean, you know, so I don't know. you don't have to believe it, but it's true. Right. And there's many people it's true for us, you know. And so what are we going to decide that it's because there's something wrong with us?

Or are we going to decide you haven't met the right person? I don't know. And or there might be some inquiry to do about yourself or whatever. But so I really had to ask myself these questions. And what I came up with was I can be the chooser. Right. You have agency. Yes.

Yeah. And I also came up with, oh, my life is mine. which as a woman is not easy to own. And not only is my life mine, my body is mine, my ideas can be mine, and that's revolutionary. I understand that. But it's also my truth. It's what is true for me. You don't have to adopt that, but it's true for me.

And as a matter of fact, I don't judge anybody who doesn't believe that. It's what I believe, you know. And it's given me a real sense of liberation. my life. Thank you for sharing. Three new cards. One, two, or three. You guys pick. Three. Three. Three. We can do two next. How often do you think about death? Oh, I don't. What about your funeral? Think about death? I don't want to think about that. You don't. No, you know what I think about? I think about life. I think about living my life the way I want to live my life. I really do. And I think that's been one of the gifts of turning 50. I'm 53 now, so I'm in it, you know what I mean?

I'm like, hey, I got this thing. And, you know, I personally, most of the people and women that I'm just like, they are in their 80s and 90s. Like I think, I'm like, yes, like, I want that. You know, these people just get better. I don't understand this obsession. I just, I remember as a young girl,

I saw these women, and they had these things. under their eyes that were so beautiful to me, I was like, when I get older, am I going to have that? Am I going to have? The wrinkles? Bags. I thought it was so.

Like an adornment. Genuinely, I was like, that is the sexiest thing I've ever seen. I was like, and I remember like, I was like, do you think I can get that? And then I was like, oh my God, when I look down in the light, I can see them. They're going to come. By the way, I also thought my boobs were the bottoms of my ribs. When I was young, I would like... I mean, suck it?

And I was like, one day I'm not going to have to suck in. They're just going to come out. It was so cool. My imagination was wild. There's a question in the deck. Oh, God, it might come up. It's, what do you look forward to about being older? Your answer is bags?

No, I look forward to my face telling the story of my life. I look forward to my life being a testament to what I've lived. You know, I look forward to having more ease in doing what feels right to me. I have, I look forward to getting older with all my best friends. I love it so much right now. our text thread is so much more interesting than social media. The articles that we share with each other, the things that like, I mean, the LLBN catalog for some reason

was like really getting in that thread for a minute. Like, I was like, is this where we are? What is not? What I thought you would say? I mean, we also share all the other stuff, and I was like, is this where we are? I was like, this is where we are. Like, it's just so affirming.

I find it so affirming. I feel so grateful to be getting older. I mean, I'm honored. It's a privilege. I feel honored. I feel so much more in my skin. I felt like being in my skin was excruciating growing up. I didn't want to be in here.

I wanted to be someone else. I wanted to be thinner. I wanted to be taller. I wanted to be this. I want to be smarter. I want to be, you know, and now I just want to become more of myself. Yeah.

You know, and I feel like that is like, like I just want more examples of that in the world. Like I see it in people and I'm like, Tell me about you. Like, how do you do it? What do you do? What are those glasses? You know what I mean?

Like, just like, it's so interesting to me. Okay. One, two, or three. Should we go with two? Two. Two. Okay. Two.

What truth guides your life more than any other? Like, we've heard a lot of your truth, but when you ask it like that, you got to boil it down. The first thing that comes to mind is you're okay. Yeah. You're okay. Like how you say it in that voice, too. Makes me going to cry. Yeah.

And it's more powerful when you're telling yourself that. Yeah. I mean, you know, yeah, to be able to say, you're okay, honey. Not you have to pretend you're not okay. But you're okay. I'm here. I'm here. I'm not going to leave you.

I'm here. I have found myself getting back in my car and going, you did good. You did good today, Tracy. It makes me want to cry. Yeah. And being able, I think it goes back to this thing that I've been discovering in my 50s of, I belong to me. I belong to me.

And so I can show up for me. I can hold me. I can affirm me. And it's a lovely muscle to have. I feel this so urgently. We all need to be connected. We all need community. We all need family.

But it's just us. And you've got to be good with, You've got to be good. With who you are here. Or at least kind. Yeah, kind to yourself. Yeah. You know, I lost what I was going to say.

Oh, my God. I thought you were going to be like, I lost my uncle three days ago. And he always said. You're okay. Yeah. You said, can you imagine that would have been perfect. That would have been perfect. You just said we ourselves connection.

It's just us. At the end. It's just us. My mom always used to say, by the way, she's like, if it's important, it'll come back. I'm like, does it though? No. I don't think it does. I was, I was.

Yeah, no, I don't know. Sometimes I'm like, hello? Hello? I found myself the other day having lost the word chair. You know what? And I literally, the A and the eye. No, but I literally was like, you know the thing with the let you sit on it. Where the sitting happens.

Yeah, and they kept saying all these other words. And they were like, chair? I was like, yeah, chair. That's the word. I'm like, yeah, chair, chair. Good thing of it. You know what, small victories. Yeah, small victories.

Yeah, you did good, tracing. You did good. Yeah. But you know, that's one of the things, though, I got to tell you, I know how to ask for help. Yeah. I know how to ask for help. I know how to say, I don't know how to do this. And I'm not afraid to say I don't know how to do something.

And I think that's a very important thing in life. Surrender your ego about that. Yeah, none of us can do this alone at all. I heard someone say recently, I'm not fit to do this by myself, this life thing. And I was like, I never want to be fit enough to do it myself. I don't. Yeah. I want to be fit in other ways, but I want to always be.

In connection. I don't want to be an island. Yeah. Yeah. And I do have island tendencies. Yeah. I can tend towards island. Well, does that sit in contrast with solo traveling with Tracy Ellis Ross?

Yeah. Mm-hmm. I mean, no, it sits connected to. What? Like, was that a puzzle? Is this wordle? What's happening? What are you saying?

Chair! Chair! Chair! The question or the answer I don't know what's happening I agree I call my mom she'll tell you

I think we should just stop I think we should just stop There's one thing we need to do before we end I don't know I feel like we're at the end Oh my God Memory Time Machine Okay it's so fun

So in memory time machine Yes Go back and you revisit One moment from your It's not a moment you want to change anything about. It's just a moment you'd like to linger in a little longer. Which moment do you choose? Oh, I got it.

You got it. I'm just going to linger in it. Yeah, please. Please linger there. One of the great loves of my life was my dog, Ladybug. Ladybug and I were two sassy bitches who lived together. She changed my life. She taught me how to love in a different way.

She had a big tush like me. She had very clear boundaries. I always used to say, you're here for me. And she would be like, no, not. What are you talking about? Lumo, like, yeah, she was like, what? And I always thought to myself, if I ever had kids, I was like, wow, I really would build a person with an identity.

because Ladybug really had an identity. And half the time when I was being whatever, she would just kind of go, yeah. But I would go back to that moment when she gave me the honor of walking her through her death. It was the honor of my life. And she was right here. And we waited, we waited. I kept asking her, you've got to tell me when you're ready.

And she did. And I would hold in that moment for as long as I could. She was safe, I was safe. And I really loved that being. And they say that pets leave us when someone needs them more. And it was comforting to me to know that because I thought I wasn't ready for her to go, you know. But I was like her life was not mine. It was hers.

And she changed my life. Tracy Ellis Ross. The new season of solo traveling with Tracy Ellis Ross. It will be out soon. It has been my great pleasure to do this with you. Thank you. I wanted to do this so badly. Thank you all so much.

Thank you, L.A. is. You guys were awesome. Yes, what a treat to do this in such an intimate, with an intimate, beautiful audience. You guys were wonderful. Thanks for sharing your reflections. Thank you. Thank you so much for tuning into this episode.

And just a reminder, if you would like your very own wildcard deck, you can find it at shop npr.org. We have selected some of our very favorite questions from the show, and we made this custom deck just for you, our audience. It is absolutely awesome, and it is such a cool way to think about your own memories, insights, and beliefs over dinner with your family, maybe around a campfire, road trip, maybe, with friends. It's a great game for a road trip. It's also just a wonderful way to connect and learn new things about people you're just meeting or the people that you've known all your life. Check it out at shop npr.org. Dot wildcard deck.

This episode was produced by Mitra Arthur and Summer Tomad. It was edited by Dave Blanchard and mastered by Robert Rodriguez. Thanks so much to Michael Leva, Rebecca Stummy, Lorena Nader, Jillian Ferry, and Michaela Perez at LAist. Wildcard's executive producer is Yolana Sangwenny, and our theme music is by Romteen Arablewe. You can reach out to us at wildcard at npr.org. We're going to shuffle the deck and be back.

with more next week. Talk to you then.