Wild Card with Rachel Martin - Trixie Mattel

Episode Date: October 1, 2026

Trixie Mattel is so many things: a musician, entrepreneur, TV host, and one of the most beloved drag queens out there. But it all began with a deep love of music; her latest EP, "Till Death Do Us Part" is out this fall. Trixie tells Rachel about learning to read people by working at an ice cream shop, life's impermanence, and why the promise of the afterlife steps on the joy of being alive now.To listen sponsor-free and support the show, sign up for Wild Card+ at plus.npr.org/wildcard See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences.NPR Privacy Policy

I'm not a drag queen who reads to kids at the library. No, that's not you. No. I'm a drag queen. If I'm at the library, I get eye level with the kid. And I go, you get the fuck out of here. I talk out two sides of my mouth, because obviously I don't believe in God, but I also love Christmas. So I'm like a homophobe who loves to go to pride.

Like, I don't know what I'm doing. I'm like, God's not real. Hark the hair. I mean, they're good songs. Yes. Good songs. It's funny that drag over the years, it helped me convince myself that, like, you really can do anything. Like, because if you could do it in drag, guess what?

It is you. You did it. It wasn't somebody else. It was just you in a different outfit. Like, that's pretty crazy. And that's how I invented drag. I'm Rachel Martin, and this is Wild Card. The show where Cards Control the Conversation.

My guest this week is the one and only Trixie Mattel. Trixie Mattel is so many things. A musician, entrepreneur, TV host, podcast host, and one of the most beloved drag queens out there. She took first place in the third season of RuPaul's Drag Race All-Stars and stole America's heart in the process. Behind the makeup and under the corset and big blonde Dolly Parton-esque wig is Brian Furkus. He brought Trixie to life to change his own. Now this guitar picking queen and platform heels has become a drag legend. I'm so very happy to welcome

Trixie Mattel to Wildcard. Hi! Hello. I was just saying I wasn't going to get in drag this morning, but I saw that you guys had, and I will say this. Okay, say it. Trixie Mattel approved lighting. Two big, beautiful beauty dishes pointed at me. That's right. You couldn't not dress and dress and drag. I couldn't not. And it's NPR and you guys always have good air conditioning. You always have good air conditioning. The air conditioning in that very room has broken and some very inopportune moments. So I'm glad in your mind there's great air conditioning. Absolutely. I'm so excited to be here with you. This is a really, I just think the whole idea for this show is so, it's like,

So, you know, it's a good idea when it's so simple, and it's like, why has no one done that? That's the magic of a really good idea. First round. Ooh. Three cards. Trixie Mattel. That's like one. First date.

Pick one, one, two, or three. Um, one. One. What was a moment when you felt proud of yourself as a kid? Oh, my God. Whatever happened to, hello, how are you? My name is. We don't do that here.

Well, we sort of did. And then we just... We did. We did. What's proud of myself as a kid. Yeah. Okay. I'm very much a middle child.

And, you know, my brother's older and cooler than me and my sisters were so much younger than me. They're like babies. You know, they were... I was like 10 when they were born. So I was like, so in the middle. And my brother was like athletic and cool and my sisters were so beautiful. And I was like so like the middle, middle gay kid.

Not in a bad way. Just very non-event. I just was very non-event. But I noticed because I started playing guitar and stuff so young, it was really the way my grandpa was a musician. And my grandpa, my grandma used to be like, oh, you know, you're a grandpa's favorite, right? Because I played guitar at like 13, I started guitar. And I used to sit with my grandpa every day before high school and play guitar at the kitchen table. He was a plumber.

So he would be like already coming home from one job at like seven in the morning. Wow. You know, plumbers are up early crawling under houses doing. crazy shit. And so he just always made me feel so proud of myself when I was like, you know, 10, 11, 12, I was finally maybe feeling proud of myself for the first time because being a musician and seeing the way my grandpa, who is a musician, looked at me, we just really saw each other and I felt so, like, validated. And he was like my hero. And that was, like, huge for me. And that probably made me want to be a musician, a performer because you get so much love and affirmation

from something you pull out of yourself. Yeah. Did you play? together? Did he sit and like listen to you? Was it all of the above? And what kind of stuff did you play? We played together. He, I think every old guy who plays guitar has the same monologue, which is like, their fingers aren't doing what they used to. And it's like, God damn it. They're sort of like mad that their fingers aren't, you know. God damn it is like the greatest grandpa swear. Yeah. God, yeah. God damn it. And then after, I remember after school, I would come up from school and he would have Blackberry Brandy. He loved Blackberry Brandy. And you know, It's like real old men who drink like a little shot really slowly of like some kind of sweet, dark liquor.

And I remember he used to like, I don't know if your family did this, but my family, the way they made none of us want to drink alcohol is they let us try it when we were kids. And it burns your face off and you feel the life. You're like, ugh. And then they're like, this is disgusting. I don't ever need to have it again. It was disgusting. Yeah. He would be like, you want to try it?

This will put lead in your pencil. I remember he said that disgusting. And then I took a sip of it and was like, no. But I just remember us sitting there. And we would play, like, a lot of old Johnny Cash and Conway Twitty. And he loved country. So that's, like, oh, Roy Orbison. We would play, like, a lot of old stuff.

Yeah. My grandpa didn't read music or anything either. So, you know, everything he knew was just by ear and by memory. And, you know, sometimes he would teach me songs. Like, he didn't even remember who sang it originally. So then after he died, like, years later, I'd be like, oh, I thought he wrote that. Because I don't know, you know. You know?

I mean, did he know you were gay? Were you out when you were young? Like, how was he with that? No. I mean, I wasn't dressed like this. Okay. But I wasn't out either. Yeah.

But I don't think people were wondering. Like, I remember when I came out to my mom, I thought it was going to be some kind of big, dramatic, like, Mom, I'm gay, right? And everybody on, like, after school, teenager shows was coming out and it was always some big episode. You know what I mean? It was always like the special episode. Yes, the gay special. I was expecting spaghetti thrown at the wall and running out of the house, crying, sleeping. It was such a non-event.

My mom was like, well, we kind of knew. Right. I was like, oh, okay. So I guess sometimes I would have liked my family to have some kind of reaction, but it was such, they're so accepting. And my family's so who cares about gayness that it was like a non-event. And even your grandpa, I mean, it's a big deal for that generation. That's a lovely thing. Well, luckily, my aunt, my mom's sister and my grandpa's daughter, her name is Laura, and she is a lesbian.

And she is like a mullet lesbian. She is a plumber. She wears work boots. She wears cut off t-shirts. She loves to drink, like, beer and cut the grass. Yeah. She's like a lesbian, lesbian. And she, I felt like always primed me.

I told her before I told anybody else because, you know, I remember crying on the phone. And she was like, Brian. And having an aunt in your life who was gay as a kid, you feel like, well, if she's at Christmas and everyone loves her, I'm cool. So I wasn't so scared. Yeah. I know that a lot of people don't have it that easy, but that's how easy I had it. It was pretty nice. And you got the music, Jean.

Okay, we'll talk about that more later. Next three cards. One, two, or three. Okay, three. Three. Okay. What's something you learn from your first job? If they ask you to take your top off, get the money first.

No, I'm just kidding. My first job, okay. What was it? My first job, I worked at a place called Lickety Split, and it was an ice cream place that was part ice cream place, part mini golf. And it was across from Twin Bridge Park in Krivitz, Wisconsin. And I was 13. In Wisconsin, you can work.

You were 13? Yeah, in Wisconsin, I think you can work, like, under 12 hours a week with your parents, like, sign off on it. Okay. Yeah, yeah. So I worked, like, 12 hours a week or something, 10 hours a week, two shifts a week, basically. Yeah. Scooping ice cream and flipping burgers at, like, a little ice cream place.

But, you know, you learn to read people. And I know we're not supposed to read people, like, we're not supposed to make assumptions, but at that job, I swear to God, I could tell you what people were going to. We had 36 flavors of hard scooped ice cream. I could tell you what people are going to order from 100 paces. Okay, say more about that. I'd be like, here comes two maple nuts and here comes a blue moon. You get psychic.

I think to this day I could still tell people what kind of ice cream people like. I think that people reading is a thing that would make your job, make you better at your job. Because it's not just individuals. You have an emotional intelligence about what other people want and like vibe and like as you're performing. Do you feel like what you're doing up there? Of course, because then I went on to work in like all restaurants, all retail. These are all people reading jobs. Yeah, totally.

These are all people watching jobs. These are all flying. If anybody's ever work retail, you know you go home every day with a story being like, oh my God, this woman was in here today. And, you know, like retail especially. I think food is where everybody's a little crazy because people are hungry. Yeah. You know, try to eat out with children.

Like, that's the craziest thing you could do, right? It's try to eat out with a child. But like a store. People, when I tell you, when I worked at the Mac counter at the Macy's, when I tell you that the Macy's opened at nine and old people would stand outside the doors and stand there and look in the store until it opened. What is with that? Sit in the fucking car until nine o'clock. They want to be on time. This is their activity for the day.

They're coming to return something. Yeah. Like, there's no reason. It's pop up in a do list and they need to be there right when the door is open. And they're staring. I'll be opening the Mac counter, turning on the lights, turn on the music. And it's old people just like, and they come in to return something. It's like, girl, sure.

I guess they had a hard out. They had a hard out at 901. That's right. That's right. There were other appointments that had to get through. There were many doctor's appointments. But I worked in retail too. I do think it was one of the most important things that you can do as a young person is like,

work in restaurants, work in retail, get out there, face the public, working in ice cream shop, have to deal with all the crazy that walks in and just manage it. And like, still be respectful, still be kind, still. do your job, but it's really hard. It also makes you America's number one best guest when you go to restaurants or stores. Because do you know how bad you could treat me at a restaurant or store? And I would still be like, thank you so much. Here's a 20% tip.

I know you pissed all over my food and slapped me across the face and called my mother a whore. But I just left you $40 in cash for my iced teeth. Yes. And then in retail, like, when they're like, can I help you find anything? I'm like, I don't want to bother you. Even though I gent, you know, I'm, if I try on pants, I'm folding them back up. I'm putting them back. Do you really?

At the makeup counter, I'm like, people are gross at makeup stores. People walk in and just grab stuff and just grab a lipstick, bite the top off it. It's crazy. People shopping for makeup need to be stopped. But I'm a good shopper. I'm a respectful shopper. I'm a respectful diner. I'm a respectful bar drinker.

I'll never get complicated drinks. I always tip. You never get complicated drinks just because. Because it's just too much. It's just to bother. You don't want to bother them? I mean, look, I literally have a stamp on my wrist from a gay bar from last night. Do you think I'm going to walk up to a crowded party like hot dog at El Cid and say,

can I get a shaken margarita? Are you kidding? These people have been through enough. Give me the Dixie Cup with the hand sanitizer in it, put some squirt in there, and I'll be on my way. Okay. One, two, or three. This is a one again. This is a one again.

These are memories, but we are all. These cards are huge. They're so big because I can't read. It's epic. It's like you're holding a piece of plywood. It's crazy. Okay, this piece of plywood says, what's a piece of advice you were smart to ignore? You got one of those?

Oh, my God. Yes. Yes. I remember my brother told me to not go to school for music. He said to go for a foreign language in international business. Because, you know, he, yes, he was like a world traveling. you know, a veteran. And so I think he had been all over the world and realized, like, if you could speak languages

and you knew something about money, that's like... But, you know, now looking back, I think he just wants his younger brother to be able to eat for, you know, when he goes home. And that was his lens on what would make you successful and be able to pay your rent. Yes. And I love my brother. We're very close. We were enemies when we're younger. And now a lot of people tell me this. Me and my brother were like mortal enemies and we're younger. And now he's like my closest family member.

I think sometimes in life things just switch up. Yeah. He, when I went to watch him graduate from the Army, he can't even clap on beat. I remember watching him march in the Army, and you could see his eyes watch the feet of the people next to him because he couldn't hear the drums. So obviously, he's not going to be like, go pursue music because he's like, you know. But we do have a shared love for Blink 182. I think that Blink 182 unites us all, really. So many things just came out of your mouth that I would need to follow.

Okay. But he told me not to go to school for music. And I can, honestly, now looking back, I can see what he's saying. Why pay money to learn to do something that's an art that so many people do it for a living who don't have the education in it. That is true. So your brother told you don't go to music school. You did. You didn't, though.

I did. Did you go to music school? Yeah, I went to the Peck School of Arts in Milwaukee for, I went to music for two years, and then I completed my degree with musical theater. So the second half of my four year was more dance and theater. focused. But I did do music. And then I went to beauty school. You went to beauty school? Girl, I went to beauty school. And I dropped out right at the end. I had to drop out because I got cast on drag race. Oh, man. A VAT Institute of Beauty and Wellness took my $20,000 and I never, I never got to finish. I hate, I'm such a tryhard. I hate that I never finished. And I hate they

don't have my license. I feel like they would give you, you know how they give people honorary degrees at universities. I'm fairly sure that they would give you an honorary degree at the cosmetology school. Please, a Veda Institute of Beauty and Wellness, Milwaukee. Can I have my honorary degree? For sure. For sure. Please. I still back home the way my teacher taught me. So I still use my education. When's the first time you put on drug? Okay. So I was 17, 18. I just moved to Milwaukee. I'm from, like, you know, a small, small town, a trailer on a dead end dirt road. moved to Milwaukee for my freshman year of college, and I was like, I'm so country and I'm so shy. Not shy, but like scared.

I was scared. I need to push myself out of my own nest a little bit. And I went to see the Rocky Horror Picture Show at the Oriental Theater on the East Side of Milwaukee. And it was just so, you know, it's gay but not gay. It's like music people, movie nerds, punk rock people, goths. Everybody goes to Rocky Horror. People have fake blood on and glitter and they're screaming. And at the end, I remember they said, we're hiring cast members.

And I was like, I'm going to join this. And this is going to help me. Like, you know, I'd never been in theater. I'd never done any type of comedy, theater, anything like that. I only played guitar. It was all my only skill. It was singing and playing guitar. So I joined that.

And that was such a good environment to wear fish nets or heels or whatever. And it's not drag. We're doing Rocky Horror. Right. So there's like specific. We're dressed like freaks. We're not dressed in drag. We're dressed like freaks.

So then I remember the drag queen in the cast who played Trixie, which is like the lips in the beginning that does science fiction double feature. They were not available, and so they asked me to fill in, and I'd never done drag before, and I just did it for that. And I remember going home and being like, felt really into it, loved it. And then when I turned 21, I went to, on my birthday, I went to a gay bar by myself in drag, like a freak, like I'm a predator, going to the bar alone in a wig, like in a disguise, when am I, the killer?

Why were you by yourself? You didn't want to go with friends. My boyfriend at the time was 20. Oh. I was 21. I just turned 21, so I was like, see you later. I'm going on for my birthday. Yeah.

So I guess my dream was to get, like, noticed by other drag queens and get a job. And I walked in, and I did get notice, and I did get a job. And I remember the next week, I came back, did two numbers. And then I went home. My boyfriend was 20 at the time. I remember got in bed and I stayed in bed, staring at the ceiling until the sun came up, being like, this is my calling. I remember just feeling like, I'm going to do this for the right.

rest of my life. And you did. I knew right away. Yeah. That's incredible. And then when I started to develop like, because by then I'd started already developed the kind of doll thing and the look. And I remember feeling like very high on my own supply.

I remember feeling like this was the best thing. Like I invented Mickey Mouse. I remember feeling like I was just, Trixie was the coolest thing. Yeah. That's what's nice. When people come up and say they love Trixie, I always am like, we just have some. I'm like, me too. Love.

Yeah. Love doing Trixie. And I know you've answered this a million times, but. I mean, you could have been anyone. Like, drag is so wonderful because you can just, it's just the art firm. You can create from nothing. You could be whoever you wanted. So what were the inputs?

How did she come to be? I did not get along with a stepdad at all. It's a really, really hard relationship. And he used to call me a Trixie whenever I was acting too feminine or, like, crying, or being emotional. And so then when I joined Rocky and the character I got was Trixie, it was like the universe. You know, Rupal says the universe gives you stage direction. I really believe that. And so I just had Trixie because that was the name I inherited.

So it almost selected me. And then Mattel was because at the time on Facebook to make a profile, you need a last name. And so I was like, well, I don't have a last name. And then I wanted like a toy manufacturer of some kind. So then I thought Trixie Mattel like rolled off the tongue very well. And Rupal was taken. So I had to do Trixie. But I think of better drag names all the time.

And I'm always like, oh, that would have been good. That would have been good. Yeah. But Trixie's fine. I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's So, so, so long woman who's probably 62 in my little weightlifting class at the gym is named Trixie. What?

What? What? Yes. I just found out that that was her name a few weeks ago. Shout out to Trixie. I never meet your Trixie. She's doing the work. I almost was cupcake.

I was thought, I originally thought cherry, cupcake, cookie, some kind of food name I thought would being cute. But I'm glad I didn't do that. Trixie words. Let's pull out of the game a little bit. Talk about your new album. And this is funny because when my producer told me, okay, Trixie's going to come on. It's awesome. And she's got this new album. It's a holiday album. So I was like, awesome. Yes. Let's talk about the holidays. I want to hear White Christmas from Trixie Mattel and what child is this? It's a one with just classics. You'll hear what child is this for me. If I'm going to drag show and there's a kid. I'm like, what child is this? Get him out of here. Get his little ass out of here.

I'm not a drag queen who reads to kids at the library. No, that's not you. No. I'm a drag queen. If I'm at the library, I get eye level with the kid. And I go, you get the fuck out of here. You get the fuck out of here. Although I've seen on TikTok, the teachers say the kids can't read now. It's very sad. Well, it's not helping that you're not reading to them. So you may be contributing to the literacy. I'm the reason high schoolers can't read. read. Great. Wow, we went down a real... I don't think I answered your question. Tangent. Oh, no, it's a Halloween album. That's what we were talking about. It's a Halloween album. It's a holiday. It's a holiday. It is a holiday. It is a holiday. Last Halloween, I was decorating my house all spooky,

because I had this old spooky house, and I was just so in the Halloween spirit that I started writing these little, like, Halloween songs for my own enjoyment. Because now I DJ and remix and stuff, so dance music has really become my baby. Uh-huh. But I still still. like to play guitar and that's my, that's how I relax, play guitar and write my little songs. And then once I finished four or five and I was like, well, now I have a little mini Halloween album. So the metaphors just are about life or about death and spooky stuff and, you know, vampires and ghosts. And it's a lot of songs, love songs, but the metaphors are all spooky metaphors, basically. They are, but I was it, maybe this is just me, but I was listening, it's very earnest. I mean, there's, it's, it's like,

cool dance music, but when you really sit and you listen to it, you're like, oh, this is just like such a sweet love song or longing song. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, when I was a kid before I started drag, because I started drag at 18, 17, 18, I thought I was going to be, I wanted to be Sarman and Garfunkel. Like, I wanted to be, Chris Christofferson. I wanted to be a songwriter, guitar player. Yeah. And so I don't think I'll ever get that out of myself. When I sit down with my guitar, I think I'm writing landslide. So even though I dress like a birchrist. The music still sounds. That's how I write music.

So it's kind of confusing. I've always presented this look and then this personality, but then my music sounds kind of earnest. And that's just what comes out, so I try not to police it. But till death to his part is funny because to me, marriage is, it is about death. Everything about marriage is till you die, till you die, till you die. And it's kind of funny that we measure something good by till we die. And I don't know.

The tricksy way of going about things is to take these earnest things. and you wrap it in these little jokes. I love internal rhymes and tongue-in-cheek little jokes in songs. And that song literally talks about your pallbearers and stuff. Do you have people in your life who've had long marriages? Oh, my gosh. My grandparents got married at 16, 15 and 16, and they were married till death. Really?

Desperately in love, so in love with each other, so sweet. Laughing every day. I remember when I played guitar with my grandpa at the table, my grandma would be washing dishes, singing along. They were just like the model couple to me. They just loved each other so much. Do you want that? Yeah, I have it.

I'm with someone now and it's great. But, you know, I've had all great relationships. All my boyfriends have all been awesome. I don't know. I feel so lucky because people tell their worst relationship stories and I'm like, all of mine were good guys that it didn't work out. But all of them were so good to me. Yes, they're all so great.

You're lucky. Like I lost my virginity. my freshman year of college with my first boyfriend, who I was in love with, in my dorm room, listening to Dashboard Confessional. Do you know how many gay guys I know had sex in cars with old men? Like, I don't know how I lucked out. I get like the gorgeous Sarah McLaughlin love stories. All these guys have been so good to me.

But I get the Nicholas Sparks every time. So I don't know, whatever I'm doing people, you go do it because I'm not that great, but great guys just flock to me. I don't know. And also I really believe in love. love the one you're with. I think we all get too obsessed with, is it the one? Right. Is it forever? I think all of that's irrelevant. Yeah. Who you're with now, if it's working for you now, do that. Yeah. Everybody who's been together forever, I think has just done it like one day at a time.

They're just like, it's great today. But I used to feel anxiety of like, what if this isn't the one? What if it isn't the one? Yeah. It's like, that is so, that's, baby, no one's the one if you're worried about the one. Then it's like, you know, all these gay guys who have no, who are allergic to relationships because I think they think they think the next, they're going to miss the next best thing. It's like, what if, what if, what if this is the best thing? Yeah. And also, quality over quantity. Like, do less things and do a good job. And you know, my other favorite thing is, musically right now, I've been going through such a renaissance where it's like, sit down and make something in one sitting that never gets recorded, never gets heard. I really flipped my mindset on everything you make doesn't have to be a product.

Oh my God. This is my new thing. I'm obsessed with the ephemeral impermanence and how we don't have it anymore. Impermanence. I know. What if you wrote this and no one heard it? Yeah. And I used to be like, oh my God, I've been working on this song. What if it sucks? And now I literally sit down and I go, wouldn't it be funny if I worked all day on this and it sucked? Like the discovery and the creating of something is the experience. Yeah, totally.

Because that is like, that's not the meat of it. The meat of it is the making it. And I've never felt that way before. And now I really do. It's been so healing. Have you been through therapy? There's a lot of, there's a lot of wise stuff coming out of you, though. Too much.

Twice a week. I have it today at one. Are you that, do you want to come with me? I can get you a twofer. Round two. Insights. One, two or three. Two.

We haven't done a two. Two. Two, two. Look at you. Oh, interesting. Has competition done more to help you or hurt you? Oh, my God. Okay.

So, I'm not quite competitive with others. Come on. But I am. I wouldn't say I'm competitive. I used to be very jealous. Very jealous. If I turned on a TV and I saw another drag queen at a gum commercial would ruin my day. That's like horrible.

But I would be like, well, that wasn't me. I guess one fucking wants me. Which again, it's the thief of joy is like comparison of like, that's so dumb. Or if I said no to a job, it would like, I would feel like physical pain at the knowledge that somebody else would get that job. and I would have to like someday watch it on the internet and be like, that was supposed to be me. That, again, mental illness, anxiety, unhealthy, not good. I don't know if that counts as competition, but I guess I would really set myself to a standard that was really unreachable. And there was no permission to just be satisfied with what I did.

I am interested, though, like the Rupal show. Oh, yeah, the Dragress. Like you, it's an actual competition. It's an actual competition with real stakes. Yeah. I mean, you're comparing yourself. All you're doing is living in that space for whatever period of time you're recording where you're just constantly comparing yourself every little thing.

Yeah. I mean, it's awful. It seems awful. I mean, can I say I don't want the takeaway to be that doing Drag Race is awful. No. It's a wonderful show. It's amazing. It's amazing.

But any reality TV show or any like really high stakes competition, I think. Oh. It would be really hard that way, especially when it's televised and there's so much pressure. When you watch me on Drag Race, you, I think you could tell that competition does not bring out the best in me. It activates every part of me that is, like, nervous. I had my first panic attack on Drag Race. I mean, I didn't even understand at the time what it was when it's like, your chest is tight, my hands are going numb. I feel like lightheaded.

It's like, now I know what that is, but before I was like, oh, I'm having a heart attack. Yeah. It is crazy because I feel like half of drag is at the time, that time of my life was, you're not good enough, you're not very good, everyone, like, whatever. And the other half of me was like, you are the best thing that ever happened to drag. So there is this like crazy two thing where even being a critique down drag race, I'm standing in front of RuPaul and I'd be like, I look great. I didn't look great, by the way.

But it's about delusion. And drag is about delusion. I mean, do you want to go see a drag queen who's like, I guess I'm okay? No, you want to see drag queens who are like, I, you're like, you're not. You're all so lucky I walked in here today. That's right. That's what we want. That's right.

Because it's a projection. You want to feel that kind of confidence. And the drag queen represents like, I don't care what's going on in society or this, this, all the naysayers. This is me. This is me and my maximalist beautiful self. And you can have some of my pixie, trixie dust, you know? And that's the kicker too. I think part of what people like about drag is.

Of course, there's beads and like stones and sequels. and tricks and splits. But I think people watch us and they're like, well, A, people like to feel like children. I think anything that feels like when you're a kid watching a puppet show and a drag show is kind of that. Yeah, for sure. But also, I think people like to watch someone suspend like their own disbelief and like really believe it and sell it.

Yeah. And then people go like. It feels really powerful too. Yes. Yeah. I think people watch it and they go like, well, maybe I am that bitch because that person thinks they're that bitch and they're not. Like, she got close to me.

I can tell that's – I could see the stubble. But they believed it. You know what I mean? And I think there's part of drag that's inspiring in that way. Yeah. I mean, I got into it for the drink tickets when I started doing drag. But now, at this point in my life, it's funny that drag over the years it helped me convince myself that, like, you really can do anything. Yeah.

Like, because if you could do it in drag, guess what? It is you. You did it. It wasn't somebody else. It was just you in a different outfit. Like, that's pretty crazy. Yeah. And that's how I invented drag.

One, two, three. All right, let's do three. Three. What do you like about this stage of your life? Oh, my goodness. Thank you for asking. I'm the happiest now I've probably ever been. Really?

And yes, I find, now that my anxiety is under control, again, when my whole life thinking, and this is a card scenario, I do too much therapy, but I'm going to tell you this. Tell me. I think that because we all are operating systems get written when we're like in diapers, right? So we don't know why when you're 30 you have this reaction to this because all that stuff is written into our somatic system when we're young. I think being an adult is like we're all trying to play GoFish in relationships, friendships, friendships, workplaces. But he has an Uno deck. She has a tarot deck.

Like we're all trying to play the same game. But we assume we're all using the same operating system and we're like not. to know. And for me, the level of panic I was experiencing all the time, once I got under control, I feel so peaceful now. And again, I was afraid that my stress was part of how I was good at creating. Right. And now I'm like able to be present for the first time. Like on stage, on camera, I'm able to like lock in and nothing else is there. Like the speedy feeling is gone and I'm able to just like be present. And now I'm like. To figure out that you didn't need the anxiety or the like panic to keep you on the edge of creativity.

That wasn't the engine that was actually keeping you going. Right, because now I'm able to sit down and be like, if I'm going to write this song today, I'm going to sit here and be so present with it. Whereas before it would almost be like, I'm going to have to wait for some concoction of caffeine, a good workout, and depression to like regurg, to like accidentally puke up a good joke. or a good song, like unexpectedly. And now I'm able to be a little more procedural and peaceful and be like, I'm going to sit down and make something awesome. Or on stage, I'm able to really feel my feet on the floor, feel the music, like look right at people. And I don't get as scared. Like, my stage fright is like gone now.

Did you have stage fright? Majorly forever. Always freaking out. Hands go numb. I would go on stage or on camera and I would go home and have almost like a blackout where I didn't even remember what happened all the time. So now at this place in my life, I'm just able to, like, do less and do a really good job at everything I do. Oh my God. I'm so happy for you.

It's great. Yeah. That's great. Okay. Last one in this round. One, two or three. Okay. We're going to do two again.

Two again? Let's see. Do you tend to give people the benefit of the doubt? Yeah, for sure. You do? I think so. Brandon, my assistant. Brandon shook his head.

No. I think I do. I think I do. Yeah, I think I'm a little too diplomatic sometimes because then in hindsight I'm like, girl, you knew what kind of behavior they were going to exhibit. And you were like, let's give them a chance. And then they did that, you know? Yeah.

So sometimes I think it bites me in the ass. But in general, I try to always think we caught somebody on a bad day. Yeah. You know, oh, they missed this deadline. Maybe they were busy. Or, you know, I do try to because I work with a lot of people. So I would like that grace if I was five minutes later or something, you know. Right. But it hasn't blown back at you in any substantive way.

Yeah, sometimes you do look like you have a cloud nose on afterward because they weren't that. But in general, I try to really just believe people aren't going to do or say or whatever they said they were going to do. And I say that as a person in a disguise who has a fake name, like, I think I should try to trust people. But, you know, one time I, what's funny is every time I've got my bag searched at the airport, like, think of me, like in my early 20s, like traveling around with like suitcases full. of money from all different countries. I'm gone for weeks. And then you have a suitcase full of different currencies and disguises.

You look like... Red flag. A criminal. That's right. You look like a smuggler. Yeah. So that was always weird, and they'd open the bags and they'd be like,

they'd be looking at like panties and different singles. I'm like, I don't know. Take your little cotton pad and do the bomb swatch and like, let me move on or whatever. You know, that little thing? They like, you know the thing where you put your hands out and they take like a Biori strip

and they go like this? It's like, oh. And put it in a secret machine? Yeah. I'm at someday I'm going to do TSA training because I need to know what it is. I need to know what is going on over there because I have questions. Yeah. I think we need your reporting on that.

We need your reporting. And it would just like make people so happy to see you there. You can't even see me at the airport. I'm straight through. You're one of those. I do wonder how famous people get on airplanes. I'm like the other day, did you watch Stranger Things? Yes.

Okay. Noosh. Schnapp? The guy who plays Will. Yes. He, I got on the plane and I was one of the first people on the plane and he's already sitting in his first class seat. And I just don't understand how the famous people, you're famous. How does it happen? How do you get on the plane? You're spirited onto the plane before everyone else. There's a secret door. So there are services for that. I used to do it, but honestly, it's the Sky Club has better food than the lounge. So there's this thing called PS Direct that I used to do where you go to the building next to the airport, which is just like a little bar and lounge where you go sit. And they feed you, give you drinks, whatever.

They do your TSA and everything there. And then you go through a one person room with just nobody else there. And then they put you in a car and drive you to the side of the plane and you get on before everybody else. That's how it's done. Oh, my God. One time, sometimes they make you share the little car. and one time I was getting ready for some pride or something. And, you know, I DJ mostly for a living now.

And I was working on my computer, getting my music ready for my gig. And they said, well, today you're going to share a car with somebody on the way to the plane. I said, that's fine. Who cares? The guy gets in. I didn't recognize him or anything. He has like red hair. And he goes, hey, don't you have a podcast?

And of course, ma'am, I'm like, oh, yes, I do. He's like, oh, I've seen you on TikTok. You're so funny. I go, thank you. And I goes, yeah, I'm just getting ready for my gig. I'm a DJ. So I'm also like a musician. Do my music.

We get in the car. Tell me why it was... Tell me why it was Phineas, that Billy Elish's brother. Finius! Yes, and I'm sitting there being like, I'm a musician. I'm a musician.

Isn't that fucking embarrassing? Like, I'm like, you wouldn't know about music. I'm a musician. He's probably like, okay, girl. Nice podcast. That's all I want to say. I never recognize anybody and I always say the wrong fucking thing.

Always. That's pretty good. But he was really serious. sweet. He was like, I love your pond. And I was like, thanks. I think he seems like a nice guy. I was like literally, oh, great job writing, you know, what was I made for for the Barbie movie or all these other amazing songs. I'll just sit over here and get my music ready for pride. My local pride. Yeah. I don't know if you've heard me. What an asshole. So embarrassing. I was like, I was like I'm in a car with, you know,

the barefoot contest that I'm like, yeah, I cook. It's just crazy. It's just crazy. I just published a book of recipes. Right. Like I get in the car with Stormy Daniels. I'm like, do you know about porn? And I think so. Round three beliefs. One, two, or three. One. One. Who or what is your moral compass? Okay. Okay. Just a quick, easy question. Boom. You know, most people ask me if my eyes are brown or green, but we can talk about this.

My moral compass. Will you use? You know, I just try not to hurt anybody. Yeah. Because I'm not religious, and I didn't grow up religious. So I didn't grow up. I'd never been to a church even until college when I got a job singing into church. But we were not a religious family at all. And so all my sense of right and wrong really came from just like family dynamics and like living.

Yeah. So I think maybe for a lot of people, morals feel probably their beginning understanding of that is like right and wrong from religion. But again, mine just came from the wild. You got a job singing in a church. Oh, yes. When I was in college, I got a scholarship singing at the Presbyterian Church in Shorewood, Wisconsin. I was a Presbyterian. I feel a kinship with this story.

They were, my boyfriend was the leader of the tenor group, and I was the leader of the baritones. And so every Wednesday night and Sunday morning, we would go to the church and sing with the choir. And we break off and teach them their parts to, like, play the piano. and teach them their parts of the songs and stuff. And I had a really good time doing it. It just, it was a little early. You know, I was doing drag at the time. So on Wednesdays, I would go to rehearsal at the church till like nine,

and then I would get in my car literally on the highway in Milwaukee, glue my eyebrows down on the way to the gay club, and leave the church singing at nine and be in drag on the stage at 11. I love that as an arc of a 24-hour period. It's great. But the Presbyterians were. very woke. They didn't, I mean, they knew, they knew that was my boyfriend and they knew it to drag and no one care. So that's great. And then Sunday mornings, oh my God, of course I'd be

in drunk the night before and I'd be coming in to sing, you know, Christmas music and stuff with like glitter on my eyes still. Like, ugh. They should not have church in the morning. What about noon? What about a noon service? Yeah. I mean, I think Catholics. Oh, maybe, you know what, though? I think in the big cities, they have multiple, don't they? Like multiple seatings? Yeah, yeah. There's multiple seatings. Like a hamburger Mary's You can come to the 8 o'clock or the 10 o'clock. But we always growing up, because I did grow up in a religious family, you judged the people. Like they were, they were like the lazy ones.

Like the later, the service you went to, the less Christian you were. Like if you showed up at like the 9 a.m., you're going to heaven for sure. If you showed up at 10, you're like, I don't know. But you're halfway in. You're halfway out. Who knows? If you showed up at the noon service or the later service, you're like, what are you even doing? Like you had like you wanted to do eight other things before you went to church like that's very noncommittal.

Interesting. I appreciate because you know, like I said, I have no personal experience of religion. So I always love to hear about other people because that's really my only inlet to knowing about people like their experience of religion is asking because I don't have their experience. But I'm like such a I talk out two sides of my mouth because obviously I don't believe in God, but I also love Christmas. So I'm like a homophobe who loves to go to pride. Like I don't know what I'm doing. I'm like, God's not real. Oh, like, I'm like, God's not real.

Hark the hair. Herald angels. Yes. Good songs. Trixie Mattel. One, two, or three. Okay. Three.

Three. What's a song that feels sacred to you? Oh my God. My goodies by Sierra. No, I'm just kidding. What song feels sacred to me? Oh, praise you by Fat Boy Slim. I like to praise you like you should.

Yes. I love Fat Boy Slim. I love artists who do a lot of sampling and processing and resamming. He's a math. Oh, I also love the avalanches. But that song, to me, I love the chords. I love the vocal. It's like an old soul vocal, this female vocal.

I love those chords. I love the builds. That song always just feels so joyous. To me, that song is about gratitude. That song is about, um, that song just makes me feel like being present. That song, anytime, that opening piano, do, do, do, do, do.

I just am like, hell yeah. Maybe it's because I was a 90s kid. That's such like a 90s song. But I love that song. I think that that song is like almost like a religious experience. Do you ever do that song? Do you ever perform that song? Oh, yes.

You do. I have remixes of it and it always hits. I play the Purple Disco Machine remix of it and it has such a nice long build. It's an excellent piece of music. I love that song. Yeah. This is our last set of cards.

Okay. One, two, or three? Two. Okay. What do you think happens when we die? Okay. I think it's a lot like, I think it's being born in reverse. I really do.

What does that mean? My mom always told me that being dying is as natural as being born, which I was always like, okay, crazy. Because I was a kid who just was terrified of death. I thought it was going to die every day. my loved ones, the thought of, I would, when I got to an age where I realized I was just going to outlive my own grandma, I cried not stop. Like, I just couldn't believe that I was like, I'm going to have to experience other people's death someday. That's like the, that's the prize of being young is that the people you love older than you are going to die in front of you. Yeah.

And I became very preoccupied with this to the point where I also became very preoccupied in my 30s of, um, convinced. convincing myself every day that I had illness, convincing myself every day. That's not a cough, that's cancer. That's not a sprained knee. That's a broken leg. Like the most extreme death version of every ailment, I have Googled it to death up and down. I would become, oh, my God, really preoccupied that my partner would die. I would think about my partner dying every day.

Be like, oh, my God, what if they die today? I would like, crazy. Like, they're on the highway in the car, and I'm like, what if they die? right now. Like almost intrusive thoughts of somebody you love is about to die. I don't really feel that anymore because I feel like it's really important to try to enjoy the present. When I do lose people or I die, when I lose my mom, let's say, I don't want to look back and say that I just worried about her dying the whole time she was alive. Prematurely grieving unnecessarily. And that's my problem I have with sometimes I feel like religion is like they make heaven

out to be like, oh, when I die, it's going to be awesome. I think that's such a slap in the face to the gift of being alive. You're really going to spend your whole life being like, someday it's going to be so fierce. What if it's fierce now? What if this is awesome? And what if there is no head in the—what if this is as fierce as it gets? Not to make all of a sudden this beautiful thing you just said into a cast it into a more negative sheen, but like— But I think it is fierce. Yeah. Maybe I'm too optimistic, but being alive is amazing. Being alive is a blast. And it's like that. So let's not just be like, oh, I'm just in the waiting room for heaven.

Like, stop shitting on life by acting like when you die, it's going to, something's finally going to start. So this is interesting. If you were really preoccupied with the idea of death and now you've released that and so you can just be present even though nothing's going to happen. Like in your, you know, in your interpretation of the world in the afterlife, you die and it's over, right? There is no, am I hearing you correctly? So you've somehow simultaneously been able to release your preoccupation with death and the fear that comes with knowing that nothing is after this.

It's just done. Right. I guess I'm okay with that part of it. Like, I'm not sad at the idea of it. I feel like so lucky to be born. I mean, my mom always told me I was a surprise baby, which I think is like the mom way of saying, like, you weren't unplanned, you were surprised. Yeah.

And it sounds corny, but I'm like, I'm so happy you had unprotected sex on this day nine months before I was born and just like oopsed me because I love, you know, it's such a gift to be here. Yeah. But like I said, I still have these thoughts sometimes, like just the other day. You know, I'm really private about my relationship. And, you know, I've learned from doing TV shows and having my relationships be public and stuff that some things are nice to keep for yourself. Just the other day I was laying down my head on his chest and I just thought,

someday he's going to die. And that's like, I don't know why I do that. I don't know why these moments of like, the flip side of noticing how great a moment is, is noticing that's impermanence, you know? This moment right now laying on my couch watching 1,000-pound sisters with the love of my life is so wonderful. Yeah. And it's, I'm experiencing it right now. it's about to be gone. And someday, I just want to be able to look back and be like, while I had all

these opportunities, I was present. I was in it. I wasn't sitting there worrying about when it goes away. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you know what I mean? It's like taking a bite of food and being like, this food's going to be gone at some point. But that's eating, babe. That's eating, boo. I know. That's how I, whenever I get a massage, I start grieving the end of the massage almost instantaneously. I'm just sitting there being like, oh, she's going to stop. I know it's going to happen. She's going to stop.

Oh, my God. It's going to be so sad when she stops. We've got to get you in a financial situation where you have a team that just tag in and out. You could do all these interviews from a massage table. Has anybody do an interview series from massage tables with the camera on the donut face? Oh, my God. That could be your next project. That's so good. And you could talk about stress and release and stuff.

You really have to raise the bar. now with the interview, you know? Like, you can't just talk to a person. You have to have hot wings or cards. Does anybody look good with their face smashing that thing? No one does, but that's going to be why it's so funny. Trixie Mattel, it's been such a pleasure. We end the show the same way every time with the trip in our memory time machine. In the memory time machine, you revisit one moment from your past. It's not a moment you want to change anything about. It's just a moment you'd like to linger in a little longer. What moment do you choose? It's playing guitar with my grandpa.

Really? I know that's like so corny, but it, I just remember, like, I was so young and I just felt so seen by my grandpa. And, like, playing music with somebody you love is pretty much unlike anything else. Like, making music with somebody that you love is amazing. It's amazing. And even like, if I could go back to like the smell of my grandma's kitchen and just like playing guitar, my grandpa's sitting there in his like work outfit. What does it smell like? What does his work outfit look like? Paint me a picture.

Oh, it's gray. It has, it says Ed. Right here, his name's Ed. It's embroider. It says Austin plumbing and heating. He's in red suspenders. Pants pulled up to the nipples. Like, old guys do, I don't know why they do that.

They just pulled straight up. And it's like my grandma cooking French toast. We were a big French toast family. And I just remember. the feeling of sitting there playing guitar and feeling like just the feeling like you have all the time in the world you know it just was like a teenager and I again I just I miss my grandparents a lot and

you just feel like you have all the time in the world you feel like you're going to be a teenager forever and they're going to be old but not that old forever and every day you're going to wake up and you're going to be able to just like pull out your guitar and play songs and one day like the last that happened for the last time and I never even noticed it, you know, and that's sad to me. But again, it's about, I'm glad that at the time, though, I was, you should live like, you shouldn't sit there and play guitar with your grandpa and worry that is this the last time. You should just be present.

Right. And that's what youth gives you, is that ability to be like in it, just in it, enjoying it. I wish I could live that again. And then all the things I've gotten to do with my music career, I always wish, like, some of those things could have happened a little sooner. or so I could have been like, can you believe that? Wasn't that crazy? You know. Yeah. With my grandpa.

But it's cool. It's kind of crazy, but because he taught me to play guitar, it really is like if anybody out there, if you learn a skill from your mom or your grammar or something, every time you do that skill, you're kind of, they're really there. Yeah. Like, you're them. That is their, that is how we live forever, really. So anyway, shout out to my grandpa.

Trixie would tell. Trixie's new EP is called Till Death, Do It Was Part. it was such a joy to talk with you. Thanks for doing this. Of course. Thank you very much. Next time I talk to you, massage table. I know. I think that's actually a good idea. I think that's actually a good idea.

If you love deep dive interviews, check out NPR's newsmakers. Every episode features a big guest who shaping news or culture. People like Zoran Mamdani, Robbie Hoffman, Chloe Mall. They take tough questions about their place right at the center of the moment. and what things look like from the inside. Check it out now, NPR's Newsmakers, wherever you get your podcasts.