Wild Times: Wildlife Education - TWT #91 - Adventurer & Uproxx Author Steve Bramucci

Episode Date: February 28, 2022

Fellow adventurer, and story teller Steve Bramucci joins Forrest Galante and the gang to talk about embarking on incredible adventures while traveling the world. Enjoy, brosteners and sisteners! Love you! Steve's website: https://www.stephenbramucci.com/ Follow him: https://twitter.com/stevebram Follow us @ https://thewildtimespodcast.com Patreon @ https://patreon.com/wildtimespod All of our socials @wildtimespod

Wild Times. Wild Times, bonus pod. Peter's still doing the thing. Patrick's still wearing the same outfit he's been wearing for two weeks straight, his winter look. It's because it looks amazing. It's 90, by the way. It's so hot out today.

It was sunbathing. It's unpleasant. You were sunbathing. You are so pasty. How is that possible? I mean, the tan doesn't come right away, gentlemen. It takes a little bit. The burn does.

Look at Forest and I. Yeah. We look like we've seen. the sun. You look like a newborn fish. I have good, I have good lighting. I put my makeup on today. I don't want to plumish. Gotcha. Smart. We got a fun bonus

today. Oh, you joined your water bottle. You joined the marked up water bottle club. All right. Yes. I did. Patrick's going to get it. We got to start selling these on our, for as merch with our own custom like fucking levels. Dude, that's a really

good idea. Did you hear that, Patrick? You might have been grabbing yours. Smart. merch with ours, it's like 7 a.m. Beat off? Yeah, you know, like some really good goals for your day on your water bottle. Just real bro-y shit. And then, of course, here's the thing. I'm going to tell you what's going to happen.

We're going to launch our own wild times, you know, keep track of your water consumption bottle. It's going to be the rage. It's going to go all over the world. If I know our brosters, and I think I do, they're going to start filling it with all sorts of alcohol. Right, right. Someone's going to choke on their own vomit.

We're going to get sued. Yeah. And it's all over. So let's not even know. Let's stop before we start. I agree. That's smart. Yeah.

All right. People do know who we are, but I really derailed it already. Should probably introduce the what the fuck we're doing here. It's the bonus. Dumb dumb, we don't do that on the bonus. I know, but they still deserve an introduction. I don't know what you are talking about. What is wrong with you, Peter?

We've never done an introduction on a bonus before. We always say hello like it's the bonus pod. You fuckers know who we are. We don't need to do that whole thing. I just, I feel like we kind of just rambled our way right into the beginning. Did you black out for the first three minutes of this podcast? Were you not here?

Yeah, you played the jingle? You danced? We did. That's all we do, man. That's all we do. That's all we've ever done. I'm going to derail it even further. I saw a friend,

a friend last night who was just plowing through the wild times. And she said that Retep said something so funny on her drive over. that she like swerved into the other lane and spit out her drink. Dude, that's the highest compliment. Can I tell you what the joke was? Oh, yeah, I didn't realize that. Oh, yeah, I didn't know you knew it. That piece of information, yeah.

Forrest was talking about something and he said, yeah, I'm for it. And then Peter goes, no, you're Forrest. It's a pretty good joke, actually. It is, it is. And it's subtle because nobody caught it. Dad joke, wit, and, dude, I'm scared for when my brain synapses start, just not firing as quickly. And I'm no longer funny. I'm going to be useless.

I don't know what I'm going to do. Yeah, yeah, you're a ways away from that happening. Listen, I got a Browsner DM, and I'm not going to lie. I deleted it immediately and pretended I never got it because I was so ashamed of it. But I think we should address it. It was a, it was this, it was this Brousner DM that was like, hey, Forrest, like, big fan, like, you guys are awesome. Listen to the wild times, you know, you, you, like, you insulted me into starting over when I tuned in on, like, episode number 73 or something like that. Really flattering.

And then towards, you know, about halfway through the DM, he goes, but there's one thing I got to talk to you about. And he hits send and then leaves it, right? And I'm like, okay. So I leave him on red. Don't respond because I'm like, he didn't write back. And then for some reason, I just happened to be looking at my phone as he's coming in. Five minutes go by and another lengthy DM comes in. And that lengthy DM is like, listen, you're really funny. Patrick's really funny. I get that you guys have a longstanding

relationship, but you guys have to stop bullying Peter. Like, this is not fun to watch. Like, I really actually, like, starting to upset me. Like, he tries so hard. And I understand that he's, like, not on your guy's level of knowledge, but, like, the way that you treat it. And it just, like, it kept going. And I'm, like, reading it getting more and more sad. I'm like, delete, delete, delete, delete. I don't want to re-dress this. And pretend it never happened. But, yeah, I figured we should address it.

The people like me. The people, you, I mean, Forrest, you're a likable TV character. Pat, you're incredibly unlikable as a character on camera. Yeah, now who's getting bullied. I will say, you know, I'm just like, I'm more likable than you two, you know? That's just the way that it is. You call me me meager. Okay, I don't even care about this.

Meager? Here's the main response. Yeah. The biggest podcast of all time prior to Joe Rogan becoming the biggest was the Ricky Jervais podcast, which was literally Ricky Jervais and Stephen Merchant sitting in a room bullying Carl Pilkington. Right. The idiot and a rod guy, right? Yeah.

Yeah. The sports podcast I listen to, they do one a month where they just have their idiot friend on and bully him. And it's by far their most viewed podcast every month. So I think there's a lot of people who like this dynamic. A couple of things. I do too. I don't think that it, go ahead. Number one, you're not Ricky Jervais, so let's just get that out of the way.

I'm much thinner than him. He is much thinner than Ricky Jervais. Maybe it's good in small doses, like once a month, but when it's every podcast, come on. You don't believe you. I don't even fucking notice it. I don't even notice it anymore. Can I point saying out, one, he doesn't notice it. He never has.

And two, they have no idea how much he bullies us off air. Like he's sweet, love of Peter, when the podcast times is rolling, the second the camera goes down, it's like, hey, you dumb fucks. Like, how come you ever responded to this email? How do you shitheads not know how to operate an eye calendar? That is true. Ebole, ebily, ebally, ebally. Okay. If I totally, you mean attempt to run a business with two people, if you can call yourselves that, who literally have the organizational abilities.

Of not even like an ant. No, ants are pretty good. Like of a gnat. Something that's just cannot organize itself into any kind of cohesive daily schedule or anything. That's the only bullying I do. If there's a swear word in there sometimes because I get upset and aggravated, just know it's out of love and it's for the wild times and the fans. Okay.

Whatever you need to tell yourself. Forrest, you have. solicited a guest for today and he's here if you want to talk about that oh yes wonderful well you know let's let them in it's a bonus we don't need to do a formal thing because it's a bonus these are our friends let's let them in let's bring in the mooch all right all right there he is yo all right excellent ladies and gentlemen here we are this is exciting i want to introduce everybody to my buddy the one and only mooch steve bramoochie who is joining us today on the podcast to hang out. Do the thing. Welcome. Welcome. I have to tell you guys,

not only is this such a regular part of my like podcast consuming world, the show is much funnier than I expected when I saw it announced or whatever. Like you guys do a great job with the humor. Thanks, man. With that with that curse said, I'm sure this will be the least funny episode and all your fans will be very disappointed. That's what I Forrest was saying just before you came on, too. Yeah, it's weird that you guys are both. Good joke, Peter. Really good joke.

That one really was. They have mortified it when I make bad jokes. Steve, how do you and Forrest know each other? He gave us very little information about you before. Yeah, that's true. I was just like he's here. I was also running late today. What a day.

Anyway, get into it. Let's go. Yeah, I'm sure he just said. This guy keeps pestering me on Instagram. I don't really know who this dude is. Not what I said. Let's give him a shot. No, so I run the lifestyle section of an outlet called Uprocks.

Oh, nice. We featured Forrest a ton, and we like him. And every time, first of all, he has great PR. So they're always hitting us up every time. Every time Forrest moves, his PR tells me about, I don't mean like makes a move in the industry. His PR is like, yo, Forrest woke up right now. Is that a thing? Yeah, Ethan.

Can you cover that? Yeah, Ethan. That's what you get when you hire 23-year-old PR guys who've never done it before. And they're like, all right, I'm going. I'm full steam ahead. It's really good. So we've covered a bunch of his stuff. And I've just become such an admirer of him.

And then I had a book project coming up. And as I kind of worked out really what the book was about, I was like, you know, this is something that Forrest really needs to be kind of a voice for in some ways. or I, at least, to do my due diligence, need to talk to him. So after one of our, like, 17 interviews that we've done with him on Uprocks, I'm sure it also sounded really random to him. I was like, hey, I'm a children's book writer. Can I now steal an hour of your time to talk about, you know, essentially like saving and preserving endangered species?

So he allowed me to. So now where I guess we're just linked. I'm just a person who's in your guy's orbit. And I get to sneak around and hop on your podcast. podcast sometimes. Steve and I chat all the time. We've been talking about getting him out on an adventure so he could cover, you know, what it would be like to be in the field for uprocks and be a part of it.

That'd be sick, yeah. So has that book launched? Can we talk about that? It hasn't launched, but we can talk about it. I got permission from my editors. The book, so I also, for those who don't know, you know, I have kind of parallel careers. I do uprocks, and then I also write children's books. and my first two books are really kind of bawdy, wild, comical adventures of a boy whose dad gets kidnapped by pirates.

And my next one is a little more serious. I grew up, as I'm sure, like truly, many of your nature-loving listeners did. I grew up with ADHD, didn't really have a place to put a lot of my energy. And it took a long time. It took me pretty deep into adulthood to really figure out what was going on. And I spoke about it. I was on the REI podcast. I do a fair bit of work for Nat Geo

and had a friend who did the REI podcast and I was on that podcast and I spoke on, she came to a school presentation that I did. And I, in my school presentation, when I'm dealing with a lot of kids, I explain a little bit about how my attention works. And I tell this corny joke that I don't need to bother you guys with.

But I explain like how my brain works a little bit and she really keyed in on that and made that really the focus of, the entire podcast that she did with me. And then my editors heard the REI podcast, and they were like, your next book needs to be about ADHD. Oh, shit, okay.

And so what it's about is a boy who, you know, in the children's book tradition, pretty common, you know, finds out that his great aunt, who owns a cabin in the woods, is also holding on to kind of an apocryphal, weird book of miscellany from his great-great-grandfather. And in there, there is a mention of a turtle with a shell like a carpus

that looks like rubies. Okay. And... It gets fun. Stand by. It gets really fun. Yeah. Yeah. And so I asked, you know,

for so many turtle questions. He goes to the book, believing, first of all, that this turtle is real and then looking for it. And moreover, it's kind of a, you know,

everything I do is a little heisty. So it's kind of a kind of heist book in that the heist is against the other people who are looking for it. for this turtle. That was another thing where forest really helped because there's, you know,

there are all these different forces that encroach on animals, obviously, one of them being poachers, and that's like the main villain of the book, but there's also like the possibility for people who are well-intentioned, but maybe have the wrong idea. And then, of course,

habitat destruction and development can affect these things. So all these things kind of come into play and this boy is basically trying to save this turtle that until the very end of the book, he doesn't know. I love it, man. You know, I have a kid.

Right now she's just like 10 months old, so curious George is everything. But I love the books that I also enjoy. But it's a big thing in TV. It's the stupid as fucking phrase. But every goddamn pitch that you have, every meeting you have is about hiding the broccoli, right? Right. This idea of covering the broccoli and cheese so nobody knows they're getting the takeaway. That sounds like a really cool wrapping paper for a story about,

conservation. You know, it's a fun, heisty thing, but really you've brought in poachers and habitat destruction and all that. Kids are going to, like, kind of get it without knowing that they were told about it. Exactly. And one thing I enjoyed Steve, if you don't mind me jumping in for a second, is Steve called me up and he's like, so I got this idea, right? And it's not like, you know, Steve's a turtle expert because you have to be a real nerd for that. And he tells me basically everything that he just told us on the podcast here. And so we started drawing parallels. And Peter, maybe you can pull up a picture of this animal in a second. We started drawing parallels because he's like, you know, how does it make sense?

Sometimes as turtles on land, sometimes it's in the water, you know. And so we had to figure out, like, from an ecological standpoint, or rather from the ecology of the animal, what makes sense. So we started drawing parallels to the North American Wood Turtle. Now, the North American Wood Turtle is this beautiful animal. It almost does look like it is made out of rubies because it has this incredible red coloration in its skin. and it spends a lot of, it's quite secretive. It spends a lot of its time on land, but it also spends part of its time in the water,

but it's a true turtle, it's not a tortoise, and it's also a huge victim of the pet trade and the illegal smuggling. And it's become a big problem with people trying to catch them and especially shipping them to Asia. There's a big fascination for North American turtle species in the pet trade in Asia. It pull up that picture, it's like five over there, Peter.

Let's see, that bright red one, one over from where you are. And you can see, this animal, looks like it's made of rubies already, which I think is fantastic. So it was really fun for me so outside of sort of anything that I ever do when Steve came to me and said, can you help me figure this out?

And we made it a real animal without making it a real animal, if you know what I mean. And I love that process. Yeah. That's super fun. That was one of those times where you kind of luck into someone, right? Because I was like, oh, and then it's going to be a turtle. And

that was kind of where I started ended with forest and then he was like, well, yeah, so give me an amalgam. Give me one that's kind of close. And the other one he gave me, which, if you're able to pull up a picture, I'm not trying to give you extra work, but was the Vietnamese leaf turtle. That's right. That's right. Sorry, I forgot we looked into that as well.

And that one actually, you know, that one, what's interesting is this part of Oregon, which I'm so in love with. I just went mushroom foraging there, and I know that your crew has been mushroom foraging lately. But this part of Oregon is so fascinating because it's the, fourth, fourth raining is placed in the entire United States, you know,

the lower 48. And it, yeah, there's the Vietnamese leaf turtle, which kind of size wise. But the other thing is that this area in Oregon gets so much rain and stays so temperate and never snows and,

and it's just kind of a buried valley, that as I've done my research trips there, it feels, you know, I've traveled to Amazon a lot, I've traveled Vietnam a lot, Thailand. It feels much more like a tropical jungle than the kind of high desert forest

of eastern Oregon or whatever, you know, even the Mount Hood range. So it's really cool because it's this green, lush area that feels like it would be someplace that we all recognize as tropical. Nice. Right. Yeah. That's awesome, man. I have a question for you.

So, I mean, the vast majority of anyone listening to this is people that are interested in wildlife. And I have read a, my kid has a book called Nuffel Bunny. That was my brother's kid's favorite book 18 years ago. Yeah. This book's been around. Yeah, it's a classic. When I read a lot of children's books, I go, yeah, I could have written this in an afternoon sometimes, right?

I bet everyone listening right now has a children's book idea that they wanted us write and get published. What is the, did you, was it because you were at Uprocks that you had a leg up? Like, what does it go from, I've got a weird idea about this kid whose dad gets abducted by pirates to, you have a published book and a check in the fucking mail? box. I've written three, by the way, and I just wanted to say this for the Brosners that don't knows. I've written three, by the way, and I think I told you this, Steve, none of them have been able to go forward. And that's including attaching, like, my celebrity to it, right? And being like, hey, I'm on TV. I'll do a kid's book. Well, we're going to talk about that. I got easy fixes. You've actually sent me the proposals, and I can get you set straight there. There you

can sell those, and we can see those on the shelf. There you go. A story that kids want to hear. But so for me, actually, I was doing children's books before I did Uprocks. I got my master's, a very expensive masters that put me in crippling debt in writing for children. And, you know, like anything, you know, it's living in the ecosystem, being in the ecosystem, knowing people in that world is important. So I think, you know, there is that thing with children's books. I write novels for children. And, you know, so they're longer. like my books are 300, 400 pages.

Oh, wow. But even then, you know, and I have a couple picture books that I'm noodling on also. But even then, you know, every time I hang out with another dad, they're like, okay, so listen, bro. I have this book idea. You write it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You ghost write it. I think half the money because I told you this idea that took me two minutes to come up with.

You know, I think that we all know, look, I, I, I, I think that we all know. look, I mean, if all of life didn't happen in the execution, then I would be forced. Right. Because in the sense that I have all the love of nature he has, I have the adventurous spirit he has, but he's the dude who did put together expeditions. And I have found that for me,

that has been a differentiator for why I'm, you know, I don't have a TV show called Extincter Alive. You know. And so I think, like the same thing goes with children's books. If you're not the person, unless you have a significant degree of celebrity, if you're not the person who's

going to put your butt in the chair and say, I'm going to do the work to get this thing out there. And there is some stuff with picture books, with, you know, picture books print. The way they print in China is so structured that the picture book itself has a very clear structure, which it has been,

you know, but all that stuff's online. And it's easy. And it's a pretty welcome. community. Interesting. And it likes people and it supports people. So I encourage people to write children's books. I encourage them to be ambitious about it.

There's a great children's book union, the SCBWI, that does great work. There are other great organizations that do great work. So definitely if you have, if you have parents out there who have the next brilliant idea, either, you know, have them hit you up at a party for it or have them work on it. Can I get just a super quick yes or no follow up before someone jumps in? Did you write your first one on spec? Did you write the entire manuscript? Or was it a proposal that you did that you got funding to write?

I wrote my first book on spec. Nice. So it's fucking ton of work. Yeah. No, I believed in it. And then my second book was part of the deal of the first book. It was a sequel. And then my third book I wrote on proposal, essentially.

Let me ask you a question, Steve. How scary was that? Because Patrick and I have talked a few times about, let's go out and make our own documentary, right? But nobody ever makes money on those fucking things, right? And at the end of the day, it's not like we're in this for the money, but if Patrick and I each sink half of our, or a quarter of our life savings into going out and making our own TV show

and then we make back $4,000 and a half thousand dollars, it's like, well, that's bankrupted and crippled us for life. Well, also the divorce will be expensive for each of us after that. Correct, incorrect, yeah. So on that note, like, how scary was it sitting there, And I guess your startup costs are not the same. But how scary was it sitting there, putting in all that effort and doing all that writing on spec? You know, you guys are wild because you're asking the exact questions that I have really good answers for.

And maybe, like, cosmically should have been asked on this exact day. You know, I have two young kids now, and I have a full-time job that is very demanding. and I produce and show run for two shows for that full-time job. And I am writing a book that, you know, my thing that I tell people about creativity, that used to be, what I used to always say is if you can't, if you wouldn't sell it out of the trunk of your car, don't make it. And that was like 10 years ago before everyone we knew was making content.

Sure. Right. So weird thing now, go to a comedy club in L.A. and ask to do five minutes of improv and then walk up and use your five minutes to just say like, who here is not trying to monetize the making of content? Right, right. One person, that's insane.

Like, I don't know where you guys live in the country, but if I meet someone who doesn't make content, I'm like, holy shit, I got to talk to you. No shit, dude. Just wants to consume stuff. Right. And not, like, monetize it. So, you know.

Seriously. I think that having a deep belief in what you do is really, really magical. You guys want to hear a crazy, cool story. It's one of my favorite stories ever. This is about creativity, but it's still a dope story. I'm going to tell you guys a story about Komodo Dragons later, but this story about... I was going to say, we haven't even got into Komoto Dragons yet, but that's okay. No, it's all right.

But this story about creativity, I'm glad to have it on some hard drive somewhere, because it is the best thing I've ever heard. So, you know, I have a younger cousin. I grew up in Portland, Oregon. I got this younger cousin. And he noticed me following a rapper on Instagram. A young woman, she's 22 years old. She's white.

She comes from a relatively privileged background. And she is killing it. Like, absolutely killing the game and is so successful. And I followed her on Instagram. And he was like, hey, I followed her too. I noticed that we follow each other. You know, she and I went to high school together. And I was like, oh, cool.

And then here, me trying to be a little bit of the flossing uncle, uprocks, for those that don't know, is owned by Warner Music, the second largest record label on Earth. So I was like, okay, well, check this out. Next time she comes to town, I'll get us backstage passes. And, of course, this woman is very talented, but she's playing, like, small rooms. There's no real backstage.

And I was just kind of speaking out of turn. But then I, like, corrected myself. And I was like, actually, you could get us backstage because you know her. Right. And he goes, oh, it's not really like that with her. And I was like, oh, tell me why. And he goes, well, we used to tease her a lot when we were in high school.

And I was like, oh, snap, why did you guys tease her? And he goes, because she was always trying to rap. No kidding. I was like, holy shit. this woman knew you guys were mocking her he was like yeah she would rap the school announcements and she would wrap

at the talent show and I was like you guys were mocking her and teasing her and she looked at you and she heard it all and she fucking knew that she was going to break through and now she's hanging out with Dame Lillard the most popular blazer she has you know this guy's a superstar

basketball player who also raps she's got records with him the whole deal she knew and they didn't know and I think like any time you can have that level of certainty to your creative projects, then you feel like you have a purpose. Sure. That is fucking cool. Yeah, I think that's the craziest thing.

You know, I've run a show. I'm the co-show runner for this show People's Party with Talib Kuali. It's a podcast interview show a lot like this one. Yeah. Yeah, it's centered on the hip hop world. And I have met so many rappers over the past couple of years, all these heroes of mine. And the number one thing that I have seen over and over is that they're creatively fearless. Yeah.

And I think that that's, you know, that's the ultimate lesson is like, do we have an idea that is so good? And do we know there's an audience appetite for it? Do we know that there's an audience who would be intrigued by it? And if so, then we just have to dive. What I'm hearing here is that, Pat, I should have kept going at my hip hop career after I sent you that one track and you, I think you just laughed. And that was it. I encouraged it. I encouraged it because I wanted more.

Peter, while he was blacked out, made a beat and recorded an entire full-length rap song called The Little Things and sent it to me. And I liked it. I listened to it more than once. You did. Forrest, what were you going to say? Oh, sorry.

That was way, way funnier than anything I was going to say. But I was just going to say, isn't it interesting to think back to that woman in high school and how many people, like I wonder if her parents were really supportive of the rap thing or not. And it doesn't really matter. But how many people go through that? And I used to get sort of made fun of because I was the animal nerd as well, right? I'd show up to school and I'd have a snake in my pocket and I'd be like, ha ha, this is cool.

Or like, you know, a bug would be crawling on the window and everybody would be like, oh, gross, a bug. And I'd like run over and save it with a little paper cup, you know, and like take it outside. And everybody was like, far as fucking dork. And like all the cool, all the cool kids are like, I should have killed that spider. And it's like, yeah, well, I didn't. But my point is, I was very supported by my mom in particular. And I didn't really care. Like the teasing didn't bug me.

So I just kept going with the thing I was passionate about, which was wildlife, never knowing what it would lead to. She might have been the same. But how many people had that squashed out of them by society, right? Whether it's teasing in high school. 92%. Yeah. Well, there you go. There's the exact number.

So, no, but you know what I mean? It's like whether it was squashed out of you by teasing in high school or your parents saying, you know, get a real job or college or whatever it is. We're having, yeah, having financially pragmatic parents, right? Totally. Right. You know, I'm 42 and I am making a lot of the moves that I would probably have a lot less anxiety about if I was maybe 35. Right. And when I try to attribute those seven years to something, would I attribute those seven years to something?

What I attribute those words, those seven years to is the fact that I always held a second job and like a pretty serious second job because I never did the thing which I encourage everyone to do now, which is like go live in the ecosystem of it. If you want to be a Hollywood writer, go live in the ecosystem of it. If you want to be the next forest, go live in an ecosystem. Literally, you know, and come back. And that's really all there is to it. Because I think, like, trying to do it the way I did it, which is like, oh, I have a foot in this world. But just in case I'm, you know, I was teaching grade school between travel riding trips, you know, just in case I'm doing this other little thing, it's going to slow it down. And then you start to have, like, kids and all that stuff.

And then it really starts to crash together. Yeah, no shit. You kind of have a battery in your back to make it work then. There's such a, in today's society, too. Like, imagine when we were kids, you didn't even have the internet. and all of that type of like pressure and judgment coming from you. It's like in one respect, you're able to create this content. You're able to connect with so many people because of social media and all these ways to do it.

But at the same time, the scrutiny is like magnified times a million percent. So like imagine that. Growing up in that, it would be hard to even imagine. Like I got made fun of my brother. And sure, it gave me a thick skin, but it would be tough. in being a kid grown up. It's just funny because if my high school in Oswego, New York, if there was a girl who was trying to be a female rapper,

she would have absolutely been made fun of for it. No question, right? Sure. And it just makes you think, like, none of the things that make you cool by the time you're 20 are really things that make you cool in high school. Like, the virtues in high school that make you cool are maybe being kind of dumb or playing sports.

Right. So cool if you're going to be a professional athlete, great, you should do that. Just 0.0,0. And being tough. Yeah. Being tough. And being tough and not giving a fuck. And actually calling the kids who are achieving well in school with grades, nerds and dorks.

Totally. Right. That's how, that's your path to coolness. Correct. Yeah. And it's a system that's designed to crush anything outside of the box essentially. Right. Yeah.

Yeah. As you say, you know, it doesn't hold up much longer than two years after you graduate. Totally. Totally. Yeah. They did such a good, they did such a good. They did such a good job of explaining and showing that in the 21 and 22 Jump Street movies. I don't know if you guys have seen it.

Obviously, you have Steve, but like it's so funny because like Channing Tatum goes back to high school, right? And he's like being the same high school kid he was 15 years prior or whatever. And he like shows up in his Letterman jacket and he's like, you study fucking nerd. And like he's like super cool. And then, you know, it's like times of change. It's like a super progressive school. And they're all about like saving the environment. and like don't use plastic and don't drive gas guzzlers,

you know, whatever. And he ends up like being the loser for being like a jock athlete. It's just, I mean, I was playing a movie that everybody's listening and seen. But it's just like, I thought it was so clever the way they did that. Because I'm like, I don't know what high school's like now. I don't know if that's how it is or if it's like, if it's like when we were there, I have no idea. I have no clue either, man.

I don't know what these kids are dealing with. We're so out of touch. Yeah, we're the old guys. Everyone here's in their 40s almost. But you're not cool. You're not at that stage where your kids in high school, so you get like a second wind of it, and you kind of figure out what's going on. So we're just like in limbo land where we're like, I don't know what's cool. Like I'm wearing a polo today. Is that okay? I don't fucking know.

Like, you know, like, it's definitely not cool. Especially with the collar all jacked up like this. It's not cool. I would like to disengage myself from all this not cool talk. I'm cool as shit. A lifestyle outlet for young people. That's true. That's true. He's still, yeah.

I see four cartons of metamusal behind you in your, you can hang out with Talib Kwelly all day long. I do you take a lot of supplements. I guess the supplements are. I'm cool. You have metamusal behind you. I'm the coolest. I'm the coolest.

You are the coolest. No, I mean, I think, yeah, I think we nailed it. Really, people should be listening to this podcast today for deep human truths. And now this couple of dragons, I'm about to tell. Yeah. Do you have time, Steve? Please. What's that?

Do you have time? I know you had a hard out coming up. I've got to tell you guys this story because you'll like it. Please. Cool. Get into it. Let's have it. So, you know, I said that, like, my childhood dream would probably be in many ways to be forest.

And I think, like, I've been a travel writer for 20 years. And I've gone on some pretty grand adventures, you know, gone deep into the Australian bush with Aboriginal elders and driven myself on safari for four months through East Africa and written a traditional Vietnamese Zampan down the May Kong Delta multiple times. Sick. So I've been on some big adventures, and I've always tried to figure out, like, why, you know, why have I not, like, had the sort of adventure that you write a book about?

And I think a big part of it is that I'm, you know, because of ADHD, perhaps, like I'm not really a true planner. And I think that that's, you know, Forrest, when I met him and when I read his book, that was a thing that I really saw. So this story is a little bit of that in the sense that I had always wanted to go to see Komodo Dragons. And that had been my fantasy since I was a kid. You remember those Nat Geo books. And one of the things that fascinated me about Komoto Dragons, you know, back then was just the idea of it. It feels very Jurassic.

It feels very dangerous. What fascinating more as an adult now is the fact that we're really still figuring out these animals on how they work. There's people right now arguing whether or not it's okay to characterize their saliva as a venom. Right. We still don't know. We still don't know if they're poisonous or venomous. We don't know. This is the biggest lizard in the world. And we're like, is it venomous? I don't know. It might be poisonous. I don't fucking know. Like, what do you think? Exactly. And it's the biggest lizard in the world.

It's not like some fucking tiny bug in the middle of Papua New Guinea where you're like, I don't know what's going on with that thing. It's like they're in the fucking San Diego Zoo. They're in the Bronx. They're everywhere. We don't know anything about their spit. It's crazy. Sorry.

It's crazy. It's crazy. And, you know, it's so bizarre in the sense that, you know, first of all, even that revelation came out in 2009. Right. That they finally, they were looking for venom glands up here. And they weren't finding any. They finally went deeper.

the neck and they found a venom producing gland, but now that's being debated as to whether... Sorry, go ahead, you got it. What saliva has on killing prey? Or if it's just the trauma and blood loss. Now, before that, when I was a kid, they thought that it was bacteria

in the mouth of the lizard. That was the whole story with Sharon Stone's husband getting bit that I read when it happened was that it was bacteria. Right. That was the common... And that's still, by the way, today, like the common thing You know, it's like your teacher telling you that there's water in a camel's hump, right?

It's like you're still getting taught that shit in school, which is wrong. But anyway, keep... Right. Still getting passed along. Yeah. Anyone who writes books of any capacity knows that the idea, the archaic idea that everything in books is pitch perfect or, you know, perfectly fact-checked is wild. So, yeah. So I'd always wanted to go out to see these dragons.

I'm in Bali, and I'm doing the Bali thing, which, you know, at this time was a little bit less... touristy than now, but still kind of, you know, pretty touristy, pretty Australian heavy, surf heavy. And I was like, okay. A lot of drugs and partying. Yeah. Yeah. This. And I was like, okay, this is my chance to go see these dragons. And so I got a motorbike on Lombok and I wrote a motorbike across Lombok. And I was with at the time, my girlfriend, I have to say her name, because I go on a lot of podcast and every time I've told a story about traveling with her, I get like a call later like, hey, I was purged from that story. Duh.

But I was with my girlfriend at the time. Her name was Katrina. It still is Katrina. And we were, we were, so we traveled across Rinka and then two other islands. And then we took an overnight ferry. And on the overnight ferry, I actually accidentally converted to Islam. Okay. Okay.

Nice. That happens often, I've heard. Indonesia, for those who don't know, is the most populous Muslim country in the world, and it's almost completely Muslim. We just often think of Bali where there's a Hindu community. And so they were on the way to a convention of Hafez. Hafez are people who can recite the Quran forward and back. The rule is that you give them one sentence from the Quran,

and they have to be able to do the rest of it. Anywhere they pop in. So it's a convention of these very devout men, and they kind of like using the language gap got me to convert somehow and held up my hand at the end and all the other men clapped. So I had that going for me. I finally get to the island of Flores and then the island of Rinka. So if you know, you know, Komodos are found on four islands, the main three being Flores, Komoto Island, and Rinka. and Rinka is really the most wild environment for these dragons. Like, you know, there's no aspect of it that is theme parky.

This is like dragons out living in the wild. At the time when I went, you could essentially become an amateur forest by just going to the research station and visiting. And that's what I did. I just rocked up to the research station and they give you a stick. Yeah, you're bashing stick. Your defense stick, yeah. That's the same as when I was there, yeah.

Like Huck Finn's stick, you know, that he has like a satchel on. And every time you see a dragon, it comes towards you, and you just kind of push it away. And then it comes this way, and you just kind of push it away. It's like a video game. They're everywhere. And they don't, and what was crazy? Steve, what year were you there? Do you remember?

So this was like 2008. Okay. I think I was there in 2009. So our experiences are very, very parallel. But the one thing I just want to. interrupt, just because it's interesting, they just hand you this stick, and then they're like, enjoy,

and you just walk out into this, like, variable Jurassic Park, this, like, land of living dinosaurs. And by the way, a lot of people don't know this. Juvenile to sub-adult Komodo dragons live in trees. So you're walking through this island, and there's Komoto dragons, like, 15 feet overhead looking at you, fucking salivating.

There's huge ones on the ground, right, beside you hiding in the bushes, and you've got this, like, two-foot-long poking stick, and you're like, and this coming from me. who's like not very scared of anything, but I'm like, oh fuck, there's dragons everywhere, and you're just like poking them out of the way. Yeah, it's crazy.

They are really keen to kill you. Oh, yeah, they're coming at you. Yeah, and you're pushing them with the stick. Yeah, same exact thing. But sorry, please keep going. I just wanted to paint that picture. Mostly because this, you're included, you know, when we talk about like venomous snakes,

they don't particularly want to kill you. You're part of their defense mechanism. Killing you would be part of a defense mechanism. We're talking about Komodo dragons who are also cannibalistic, who eat Kariotti, eat, like, you know. They're licking their lips. They actually would love to kill you. Yep, the whole time. You're a great option for them.

And so, you know, I've spent a lot of time on safari. I learned how to track cheetahs on foot, all these things. I've never felt a fear like this. Amazing. This is like a constant looming ominous fear. I mean, one of the wildest things is I was so keen and ramped up to spend time. with them, my girlfriend, we had been traveling for eight months, and she sat on the porch of our little hut, which is elevated, and she cleaned out some underwear, and she had had her period.

And just stirring up that amount of blood made the dragons come to her. That is nuts. Tried to attack her in the cabin. Oh, my God. They tell you, and not just on a smell level, by the way, when I got there, I was wearing, like, a musty, reddish t-shirt. like not even like a bright red t-shirt and they're like take off your shirt so I ended up walking around Komodo dragon shirtless because or Komoto Island and Bintang Flores shirtless because the red shirt that I had on they're like you can't

wear that like you're basically like you look like right there was pictures being taken that's the only reason your shirt was popped up true but um I wish I had more pictures I mean they tell truly the best stories that I've ever heard because they would tell you these stories that would just kind of ramp up your fear factor. I remember one of them, they were like, oh, there's a teacher, a local teacher. And he, you know, he was looking for some honey up in the trees. And while he was looking for honey, then a dragon bit his leg. And the story's kind of getting told through a language barrier, and you're like,

okay, wild, then what happened? Right. And the guys kind of look at each other and shrug and go, he found, a very nice cane. And that's the end of the story, you know. Or there was another guy. They were like, oh, you know, one of our guides got bit, but it was no big deal. It was just by a tiny dragon.

And I was like, oh, what do you mean? They were like, well, it was a baby. It was this big. He fell asleep smoking a cigarette in the guide hut and he got bit. And I was like, okay, what happened? And they're like, well, he's still in hospital. We'll see how it goes. Right.

And I was like, oh, when did he get bit? And they go 14 months ago. Yeah. shit, dude. I should explain, I might have some pictures that I can send you, Peter, and we can share along with this. And I'm sure you do, Steve, so you should send us over some.

But these huts that Steve's talking about, like, where the Ranger Station is and stuff, these animals are habituated to people as well, especially around the huts. Once you get out, it's a different feeling. But you are literally like weaving through

these like 12 foot long dinosaurs. And the biggest density and concentration of them is around all the living in human quarters. There's like a dozen of them and it's like, if you just like had three beers and you're like, I'm going to go over to Steve's hut and hang out and have a beer with him, and

it's like sunset, you would walk out and trip over a fucking dragon trying to get to Steve's hut, which is like where my car is parked, which I can see from here. You know what I mean? It's just like they're fucking. It's like a landmine. It's crazy, but so cool. It's crazy. It's the wildest thing. I mean, one

of the funniest things that I've ever scene and I've traveled to, you know, 60-some countries and been a travel writer for 20 years. I've seen a few things in this world, but there's a game that men play in Indonesia. It's essentially like volleyball, but it's with the feet. And these guys were playing it on really rough. The guides were playing it on very rough, uneven ground. And there was no jokes, six dragons watching. And they're watching them play the game, and the guys have their sticks kind of near.

But it was like watching spectators be like, listen. and guys, if one of these dudes cuts their toe, then we go, right? Yeah, yeah, right. You just felt that energy. It was the highest stakes I've ever seen for a game. Wow. And so, oh, yeah, I didn't want to interrupt your story. I wasn't sure if it was, if you're still going.

So from there, you know, I went out with the guides and learned how to track the dragons, learned how observed them, finally observed a hunt, which when I tell school kids about it, I always tell is like, is a little bit, like, is a little bit, like an awkward high schooler flirting. You know, there's like a, there's a buffalo, water buffalo, and it's standing there, and then the dragon kind of walks up, and it goes kind of slow, and it's like, hey, what's up? Like, super hot today, huh?

The buffalo's like, yeah, it's pretty hot. And then the dragon just bit on to the shoulder of the buffalo, and the buffalo goes, ah, like the sound that you make when you, like, pull your car out, and you see, like, a line. line of traffic in front of you.

You're like, uh-huh. And the Buffalo made that sound. And then, you know, that smell attracted literally like 60 other dragons large and small, and they tore it to absolute pieces and just, like, ravished it. I'll send you guys some photos that you can use. So you saw this predation event? What's that? You got to see this, this predation event?

Oh, yeah. Oh, wow. That's amazing. Insane. And, you know, animals are coming for you during it. And so you're keeping animals that can't get into the main mix with the buffalo. You're keeping them away from your own ankles. Right.

And then when they gorge themselves, because they only eat, you know, they can eat as few as 12 meals a year, they gorge themselves so heavily. Then they go and lay in the sun. And there's a few things I've done in my life where being impulsive has really seemed so dumb in retrospect. But one of them was with poison dart frogs in the Amazon. and another one of them was going up to one of these dragons to look at it and having the guide who was working there and in science say, lift up its tail so you can get a sense of it.

And I was like, oh, I just saw it eat a buffalo like the face off a buffalo. Are you sure I just got it? Yeah, you're good. So I did it. I don't know why I did it. That's awesome. I got a sense of it and luckily didn't have my face bitten off. That's awesome.

Well, that's really cool. Go ahead. To bring the story home, sidecut to all of this is that I was having a terrible time sleeping because the guides, and I, that is probably, I've probably had 20 bad nights of sleep in my life. It's a very easy thing for me to get. And six of them were at this guide canteen. And the guides were telling me these horrible stories. Every night there was a different story about someone who had been killed by the dragons.

And then I would go into my hut and they had open windows. Right. And everything was fine. And then mosquitoes would start to swarm. And then when the mosquitoes started to swarm, then bats would fly in. And you would have so many bats circling your head. And every once in a while, you know, when we learn about bats in school, we go like, echolocation, that's dope. They're flying through the trees.

But echolocation, like any human sense or animal sense, is not perfect. So sometimes these bats would hit each other and then go, and then they'd go, ah! And you'd hear them fall. towards your head and then sometimes they'd like split second and take off or their wings would catch and they'd take off. This is my nightmare.

So I was sleeping horribly. I had seven days with the dragons. I was sleeping terribly the whole time. Finally on the seventh day, the day we're supposed to take off, I walk out on this dock and I put my stick down,

I dive in the dock a few times and I read a book. I'm like, I'm just going to read my book. and this is how they get you because one of the stories they told me was about a Dutch photographer who fell asleep next to a tree and I was like, what happened with him?

I know that story. They were like, well, guess what? I was like, what? They found the photos. Oh, shit. They found his camera. Yeah. Yeah, they found his camera.

So I laid down on the dock and I was like, okay, I'm going to read a book. And I've been using this trick ever since I was a kid. I was like, what? this. I'm going to read one page and I was like, oh, what would be really effective? I'll read this page like this and then I'll flip and I'll read this page like this. I'll kind of have my head down on the dock. And of course, before I get through three lines, it's sunny out and I fall asleep.

Uh-oh. And this is why I'm not like Forrest. Like I'm not quite as analytical and dialed in. Luckily, you know, I've made so many mistakes in my life and not listen to the way. to that little ping that you get like at the base of your neck so many times but I just felt that ping and my spidey senses went up and I

popped to my feet and there was a dragon coming towards me past my stick and it was walking towards me and its jaws were just dripping that drool that they have and it looks like they're I should have just mentioned that for

everybody listening they're frothing like the whole time looking at you like the way your dog is, like right when you put the food in his ball before you put the food down. That's what Komodo dragons are doing while they're watching you. It's crazy. Like, you see the saliva and froth around their mouths the whole time, which adds to the whole feeling, by the way. But I just wanted to explain that so people know it's like crazy. No, that's absolutely it. It's frothing. It's coming towards me. I'm terrified. Jump in the water. Of course. Leave the book for the dragon. Dragons can supposedly swim. Get over to a

boat. They have a stick on the boat. I'm able to eventually hop back on the dock. How close was he to you? God, that dragon. I was reading, I was, I always say I was reading, which is true. I mean, I was reading the collected Sherlock Holmes. And I always tell kids that if they find a dragon who seems to know a lot about mysteries, that was the one. By the time I jumped off the dock, he was within three feet. Like, it was the end of the video game. Oh, wow. Jeez. Yeah, it was It was terrifying. Wild. I got incredibly lucky, and, yeah.

We're happy you're here today with us. There's the Komodo Dragon story I was itching to tell Forrest. That's awesome, dude. That's a wild story, dude. That's really cool. Your story, everything about your Komoto Dragon experience is 10x better than mine. And I'll tell you why. It's not just because I'm jealous you got to see a predation event.

You had a near run in. You got to lift one's tail up. I, and you might have read this in my book, Steve, poisoned myself with fire Carl two days before I went to Komodo and was sick as shit and spent the whole day throwing up on something that had been a lifelong dream of mine to see and do, which was see these dragons. And I felt like death warmed up all day long. And I think the dragons knew because I had similar experience with holding the stick and them sort of chasing me around all day long. But it was miserable. I had one of the worst days

ever for something that had been on my bucket list since I was two years old. Meanwhile, you like had your girlfriend there. You had them by your fee. They tried to eat you. You saw a predation event. A fucking amazing story. I'm very jealous. I decamped with them. We were there for a full week. So we had a lot of time to play. Oh, that's cool.

You know, kind of spend time there. But it was certainly an event that, you know, I think one of the craziest things that all four of us, you know, from having listened to the show, would share with people, would share with adults, would share with kids is like, one of the craziest

things about life is that the things that you dream of as a kid, they could be very hard, but especially when it comes to experiences, sometimes they're not. Like, sometimes buy a plane ticket and take three motorbikes and four ferries across Indonesia and you're there and then you did the thing. Right. I say that's a really cool thing about life. I say this all the time to people, which is people are like, you're so lucky you got to do this and you got to do this.

When I made, I made those decisions to do. those things, right? While other people had a car, I didn't have a car because I saved that money to go to Komoto and go to Australia and see the things that were important to me. While other people had all these material items and this job and that, I made the choice and decision to go and see these things because that was more important to me than having a car, right? Or than doing some of these things. And so I think one thing I always tell people is everybody thinks, oh, you're so lucky. These are such unobtainable things. Of course, course some of them are right now that i'm 10 years 20 years down now that you have two rolls royces yeah

right right right but those are you know those are only my sidecars but some of those things are unobtainable but it not nothing that end automobiles right nothing you want to do in the wildlife space no adventure no travel is unobtainable to anybody that lives in the united states if you can afford to get your starbucks if you can afford to own a car you can afford to do these things that we're about it just has to be a priority for you and I I don't know I get so annoyed when people go with oh must be nice so lucky and I'm like no I made these choices to get into these scenarios like you can too anybody can do it I consider it luck that you're just even alive that's that's what I can see why that's a whole another

conversation yeah did either of you guys make it to Flores Island when you were there that's I've always thought that was a really fascinating place yeah yeah we stayed on Bentang Flores did you get into the bush like Did you get into the jungle much? I did. Yeah, I don't know if I've ever told this story on the podcast or if I can't remember if I wrote about it on my book or not. But on our last day there, that was where I got jabbed in the butt from the fire Carl Burn and this little hut and everything. The one story that I didn't tell, though, I don't remember if I wrote about this in my book or not.

But one of my other lifelong reptilian dreams was to catch a big reticulated python. And they only occur in that part of the world. And I've caught anacondas. I've caught African rock pythons. I've caught a bunch of the Australian species, but I've never caught a big reticulated python. So I was telling this local guy about this reticulated python dream of mine because I was in the area and I'd constantly be looking.

Now, we had a flight out of Bintang Flores at like 3 p.m. And on the last night, the guy says to me, he's like, well, there's like fluffy, the reticulated python that lives outside the village in the cave that everybody knows about. And I'm like, wait, what? And he's like, it's huge. It's 25 feet long, which it wasn't, you know, I assume. but I'm like, well, we have to go there. And he's like, well, your flight's at three, you know,

you have to be there two hours before and you have to get to, it takes an hour to get to the airport, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, I don't care. I have to go. So we wake up pre-dawn because we're out of time. He drives me to the middle of nowhere. We hike in the bush for about an hour and a half, and we get to the mouth of this gigantic cave.

Have I told this story before on the pot? I don't remember. No? No, you're too deep in to stop now. Yeah, keep going. Yeah. I'm loving it. You just stops.

So I get to the mouth of it. I get to the end. I get to the mouth of this gigantic cave, okay? And I say to the guide who is with us, I can't remember his name anymore. I'm like, let's go inside. And he's like, oh, no, no, no, no. Like, I'm not going in there. And I'm like, what do you mean?

He's like, I'm not going in there. He's like, there's a giant fucking snake in there. I'm not going in there. And I'm like, oh, okay, sweet. So it's me, my girlfriend and this guide. And so I turn to my girlfriend, Jess, and I'm like, you coming with me? And she's like, if I have to. So we start walking into this cave and it goes from, you know, like the size.

of like, I don't know, garage, like a two-car garage, gets narrow very quickly. And as you go in and it narrows, we start off and your boots are like, you know, an inch deep in guano because there's bats everywhere, which by the way, reticulated pythons eat. So I'm like, that makes sense. And as you keep stepping in, the guano keeps rising up. And all of a sudden, our shoes are flooded with bat shit. And then it's up to our knees. And it gets to about Jessica's knees and she's like, I'm out. She's like, I don't even like this big snake thing. The guy who lives here says, we shouldn't be in here, I'm out. She's like, I'm covered in fucking bat shit and I have to be at the airport in an hour and a half. I'm out. So I'm like, great, I'll keep going. So I continue

further into this cave, looking for a snake that is allegedly like 20, 25 feet long that everybody's terrified of. And I get nipples deep in guano. I am literally nipples deep in pure bat shit in this cave in the middle of Bintang floor is nowhere near anybody. I can't even see light from the entrance of the cave any longer. I can't see my girlfriend. The guy never even came near the mouth. so he's long gone. So if this snake decides to get me, I'm done, though, right? I'm nipples deep in guano in a cave in the middle of the nowhere. It was disgusting.

It smelled horrific. Anyway, I'm cruising around. I got my flashlight or my headlamp, whatever it was, and I see the shimmer. Like up on a ledge where the bats are, I see the shimmer. I'm like, oh, fuck, there's the snake. There's a snake. And I wait, and it doesn't move, and it doesn't coil. And now snakes often will just lie very dormant, right?

But it just didn't do anything. I'm like, something's wrong. So I climb up this wall. and you can just imagine, I'm already nipples deep in bat shit. The cave walls are caked in bat shit. It's just bat shit everywhere, right? So now I'm climbing up this wall to get to an allegedly 25-foot snake. Reticitigal pythons, also the only known snake in the world that actually actively prey on people, by the way.

There are a terrifying animal. And very strong, couldn't have overpowered it, so I don't know what I was thinking. And I pull myself up, and it's not the snake, but it is a snake's skin. To this day, I wish I had taken, but it was so beautiful. the way it was sitting there. And this snake's skin looked like a sleeping bag. I mean, I could have easily gotten my entire body in and out of it.

And it stretched for, and now keep in mind, skin stretch when the snakes pull them off, so it makes them even bigger than you, you know, but in your head it gets even bigger and bigger. It was at least a 20, 22 foot long snake's skin that I could have climbed inside of. And it's up on this ledge looking over where I was just completely stuck in bat shit. Like, there's no running

if I chose to run. Like, I waiting through muck. And I looked, and I looked at this, and I looked back towards the cave entrance. I couldn't even see light, couldn't see my girlfriend, couldn't see the guide. And it was one of the few times in my life where logic prevailed.

And I was like, nope, even if he's here, there's no reason for me to be here. Like, I can't catch him. I don't have a camera. Like, there's nothing to do in this scenario, but lose. And so I climbed back down. I left the sleeping bag-sized snake skin,

and I exited filthy and fucking disgusting and covered in sweat and bad shit to a, annoyed wife or girlfriend and a very confused guide and we quickly ran back. I jumped in the ocean and got on the plane. But yeah, that was, that was, anyway, that's a great story. That was the only, that was the only, thanks, Peter. That was my only, who is this guy who lets me come on to tell my Komodo Dragon story and I ramble on for 20 minutes and then he kills it? No, your story's way cooler. Your story's way, way cooler than my stupid, my stupid. He's always got to be a one-upper man. Oh, come on, come on. That was not my point.

I am excited because we're talking about a fun place. But I pirated Patrick's thing, which was talking about the bush of Bintang, or Bintang Flores, and that's the only experience I had in Bintang Flores, because we focused our efforts on the, on the dragons. So anyway, sorry, Patrick, go ahead. We must really be kindred spirits because the climax of my first novel for kids takes place on a pile of bat guano in a cave in Indonesia. Oh, I didn't know that. That's cool. Yeah. What are the odds of that?

Yeah, this is a great time for anyone to throw up the cover on the B-roll of the Danger Gang and the Pirates of Borneo. Yes, agreed. Peter, can you do that? Peter's frozen. No, no pressure. Oh. No, he's frozen in fear now that he has to quickly find them. Remember the name you just said. And there were proceeds, some of the proceeds from my first novel went to protect orangutans in Borneo, which occurred.

They appeared in the book heavily. And then some of the proceeds of my second book also went to animal preservation and conservation. And then Forrest, to his credit, has also connected me with a nonprofit for some of the proceeds to this third novel about turtles. Very cool. Danger Gang and the Pirates of Borneo. Great title. Great title. Look at that. Well, dude, this has been really fun, man.

You got a lot of great stories. I'd love to have you back on to talk about your four months driving through East Africa. I think that'd make a good hour. I have so many insider tips for anyone who wants to do it on their own. It's a thing that I love very much. So as I say, I am a legitimate fan of this podcast. And I'm a fan of what you guys are doing and trying to build. And I just really love it. Thanks, too.

Thanks, man. We love so, so much over at Uprox. You know, just to shout out Uprocks life and everything we do and we're trying to build there. And hopefully, you know, bring some of these conversations that you're having to our very mainstream young audience. And then also, you know, if you have, if any of your listeners have kids or are kids in the 10 to 13 range. That's all our listeners. That could be all of them. I'm sure I want to listen to this as a 10-year-old.

So, yeah, Danger Gang and the Pirates of Bordio, danger gang in the Isle of Feral Beasts. And the third book is called, right now it's called The Quest for the Ruby-backed Turtle. Which is awesome. Very cool, man. Steve, thanks for coming. I'll make sure that Ethan and my people let you guys know about my morning bowel movement tomorrow so we can do a piece on that. But otherwise, you know, thanks for... Two thousand words.

That's right. Two thousand words. Do Monday. It's not a big ask, you know? It's like what is the consistency of the texture? Just write about it. Well, we absolutely love you. So I would at least ponder it, which I wouldn't do for most.

Thank you, brother. Thanks for joining us, Steve. I really appreciate it, man. You guys are so great. Thanks for having me. Well, that was awesome. The mooch is always a treat. He's just, he's full of stories, man.

I love that guy. He's got so much to talk about. Yeah. That's the show. The end. Hope you enjoyed it. I love it. That is the show.

Love you guys. Have a good, good night. Pats ears look ridiculous. Look at him. He can't hear us. Look at his stupid face. She's talking about how ugly he is and how long his hair is getting. I hate him.

Oh, my God.