Will Cain Country - Bret Baier: The Story Behind The All-Star Of News, PLUS Masters Tournament Picks with Bret Baier

Episode Date: April 10, 2024

Story #1: Will President Biden ever debate former President Trump in 2024? Plus, picks for the winner of this weekend’s Masters Tournament with Chief Political Anchor of Fox News and anchor of Special Report, Bret Baier Story #2: Who wore it best: Detroit Tigers’ Riley Greene ripping his pants sliding into home or a certain host of Fox & Friends Weekend? Story #3: The rise and fall of Western civilization, is it Chicken Little or is it pessimism? With New York Times best-selling author Dr. Arthur Herman.   Tell Will what you thought about this podcast by emailing [e-mail] Subscribe to The Will Cain Show on YouTube here: Watch The Will Cain Show! Follow Will on Twitter: @WillCain   ✅ 💥 Best Way to Invest in Gold Lear Capital ⚡ 👉 Call them today at 800-920-8388  👉 or go to http://www.LearWill.com ⭐ Get your FREE Gold and Silver investor guides from Lear Capital  ⭐ Receive up to $15,000 in FREE bonus metals with a qualified purchase Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

One, a multiple-choice quiz on the path to victory for Joe Biden and the rise of the All-Star of News. Fox News, Brett Baer. Two, who wore best Detroit Tigers, Riley Green, who tore his pants sliding into home or a host of Fox and Friends weekend. And three, the rise and fall of Western civilization, is it chicken little, is it pessimism, or is it a future similar to the fall of Rome, with historian Dr. Arthur Herman? It is the Will Cain show streaming live at Fox News.com on the Fox News YouTube channel, the Fox News Facebook page, and always on demand at Apple or on. Spotify should you choose to listen in audio format or if you like watching the will cane show you can hit subscribe whenever you like it's right here in the text description underneath this live stream subscribe to the will cane show and you can watch it with youtube shorts you can watch exclusive interviews like that with dwayne the rock johnson tony robins jordan peterson dave portnoy steven a smith or today's guest the host of special report brett beyer the guys back in the control room

The crew, the Wilicia, here at the Will Cain Show, said, I dress like a Texas golfer. It is Master's Week, so I decide I'm going to wear yet another Texas golf shirt. And I'm going to take a minute to say we spend a lot of time, especially in news, notably in sports, talking about negativity, talking about the acceptance of transgender athletes into women's swimming or women's college basketball with the interview this past weekend with national championship coach of South Carolina, Don Staley. We talk about insanity, but we don't take enough time to sometimes be optimistic and talk about positivity. With the tee-off of the Masters, I wanted to focus in on the world's number one golfer for just one moment, Scotty Sheffler. And if you need heroes, if you need inspiration, and if you need positivity, focus on Scotty Sheffler. This week leading up to the Masters, he was asked whether or not or how golf defines him as a person. The answer from Scottie

Sheffler, it doesn't. He seems to understand that it comes and goes. He's seen the rise and fall of Tiger Woods of Jordan Speath. And he knows that right now is the Scotty Sheffler moment in golf. And he said that rise and fall, that positivity and positivity, that optimism and pessimism comes and goes. But that is not what defines him. He says he believes in Jesus. He says he is a Christian. And that's what defines the man, Scotty Sheffler. We can focus on negativity. and we can call out and should call out all of the problems in our society and how it manifests itself and is illustrated in the world of sports. But we should also remember that that is only part of what's going on in this world because the world is also full of Scotty Shefflers. In fact, let's get ready for the masters and a presidential election and understand the rise of the all-star of Fox News.

Let us start with story number one. He is the executive editor and the host of Special Report. He is Brett Bayer, and he's now on the Will Kane show. What's up, Brett? Hey, Will. Good to be here. You've got all the sound effects. It's cool.

It's a big week for you. You're a big sports fan. I usually talk to you around NASCAR, but, you know, I know you're a big fan of golf. So aren't you supposed to say, like, isn't the typical white guy introduction? Hey, man, how you hitting them? Yeah, right. Listen, I love this week. This week starts with the NCAA championship, and it ends at Augusta National. And I don't know, it's something about this sports week. And plus, you're sprinkling and baseball in between. I think it's just awesome. I love the masters. I love the sound. The sound on my phone is my ringtone. I'm going to dial it up for you here. it's um let's see right here here we go

that is my ringtone hello friends I don't hear it why is that not coming through but it's the theme of the masters yeah I got it you know what

by the way a sign of a seasoned television professional one comfortable in his skin is one okay with silence as he dials up his ringtone. It takes a level of confidence to say, this silence is going to be okay. Here comes the payoff. Hey, if you were offered something by like Live or the PGA to do golf, Brett, and I'm not going to put you against Jim Nance, and I'm not pitting you against any other big professional,

but be honest with me. And I'm not even saying you would sacrifice Fox News. So supplement Special Report. You would say yes to golf. I probably would think about it. Yeah. I really, really like it. And I love, I love golf announcing good ones, you know, knowing when not to talk and knowing when to talk. I think Jim Nance is the best in the business. He's a buddy of mine. And he's really just so smooth when the big moments happen. And I think he's great at every sport, but I really think he shines at Augusta this week. How good are you? Listen, I saw you in Florida at a charity golf event. I didn't play.

You played. And by the way, the image of Brett Bayer on a golf course was not exactly up to my expectations. I don't mean how you play. I mean, you have a very button-downed public image, Brett. And you came out there to that golf course. It was a charity event for Folds of Honor. And I don't, did you have screaming red, white, and blue America pants on? You had something very loud.

Yeah. I play in the Lake Tahoe, American Century Celebrity Tournament. I'm playing in a tournament next week in Dallas, actually, the invited a celebrity championship. And, yeah, I wear the funky pants, the John Daly pants. It's really the only way the Fox Guy gets on NBC. It's the only way. But I started doing it years ago, and for some reason, the flag pants are a big hit. So I do that. I'm a two. 2.5 index. I used to back in the cloud be scratch, but I've been creeping up a little bit. And now my son beats me, which is tough to handle, but it's very good, too. You know, there's a dual side to it. Used to be scratched now at 2.5. Wow. Bear, that's incredible. I'm going to weave in some of your personal story, and I want to revisit something you just said about golf as we talk. But I wanted to, let's start with a little bit of politics here. I'm going to provide you with a multiple choice, okay? You can do with it what you will. But I want to ask you sort of

which of these options is Joe Biden's best path to the presidency, is best path to the presidency? And these in my estimation are the most four likely outcomes. And I'm curious what you will say. So option A, Brett, he continues with the narrative of Donald Trump represents a threat to democracy. To me, I think he runs a real risk of fatigue. There's a New York Times article a month ago or so about fatigue within the resistance. So option B, he continues to push on abortion, but I think earlier this week that Donald Trump kind of undercut that as this, you know, screaming, hair on fire. Donald Trump's going to outlaw abortion. So option C, we go down the path of manipulation.

There's going to be incredible censorship. The manipulation could also be come in the form of polling. There is a question right now of how accurate the polling is. People wonder if the right itself is diluting itself when it comes to the current standing of the race. And option D, they replace Joe Biden. Now, you're happy to I welcome you to select none of the above. But which of those four options do you think represents the most likely path to victory for Joe Biden? So I think it's a combination of A and B. I think that B more so. I really do think the abortion issue is going to be, they're going to hammer it. You've got a on the ballot in Florida, a six-week abortion ban that voters are going to vote on. You have what happened in Arizona yesterday with the court action hitting it back to an 1864 law that essentially bans all abortions. Now, I don't know if it's going to work, but they're going to run.

every ad possible to really hit this issue. And it does, it is a wedge issue that Donald Trump was trying to get out of by saying it's a state's choice. But in, you know, two days later, Arizona then had this ruling. And the choice that they made really, you know, raised some questions about, you know, how this issue is going to play. So I do think A and B, I thought D for a long time. I thought that there was going to be a replacement. I thought that Democrats might try to do something. But more and more, I don't think that that's an option, even at the convention. So I think this ticket is probably the ticket you're going to see. Let me revisit C then for a moment, this idea of polling. Do you think that the current state

of the race, which would lead us towards D? It would make us think there would be a move to replace Biden because the current polling is really bad for Joe Biden. But, you know, I've had some people say to me recently, Brett, look, they've said the right has a problem with polling, that it's not exactly the picture that you think right now. Do you think this like really pessimistic view of Joe Biden is what's really going on out there in America? I think since the state of the union addressed, there has been a little bit of a bump towards him just slightly in swing states and other polls. There have been a couple of polls just this week that show him leading in some place that he was trailing before. So I do think it's shifting a little bit.

I'm sick of polls. I really, you know, I don't like focusing on them too much because there's a lot of variance here. And when it says plus or minus six or plus or minus five, you know, I mean, that poll is essentially it's anybody's ball game if they're anywhere near that. So I, the only polls I really look at is after we get to September, likely voters in swing states, I look at those closely. But until then, the general big picture polls, it's just a snapshot and gives you, you know, some sense of things, but I don't like to focus on them. All right. I want to focus on Brett Baer for just a moment. So New Jersey, Rumson, Catholic, how do you pick DePaul University, which, by the way, is not DePaul University.

It's DePaul with a W. There's no, I believe, in our age group, Brett, I believe it would have been called like an NAAA school. Now it's Division III. So there was no big like sports draw that I'm aware of that puts DePaul on the map for you. So how do you go to nowhere, Indiana, from New Jersey to DePaul? Well, I played golf there.

And I was going to be on the team. and I was either Northwestern or DePaul. I was going to walk on to the Northwestern team, and my dad went to DePaul University in Indiana. He played football. Okay. So it was on the radar to just check out. And then when I got there, they were really focused on the golf team. Long story short, I visited and stayed at the Sigma Chi House where the golfers stayed.

There happened to be a 50 keg weekend that weekend with a band. And I really made my decision pretty easily. But more importantly, I played golf all four years, and it was a great team, and that's why I ended up there. I ended up being the first anchor of the TV station at DePaul, which really sucked. It was a horrible, you know, there were four viewers in terror. I could name them, like Sally, Bob, Sue, you know, thanks for watching. But it was a start, and so they did have a TV. program, too.

Okay, so some similarities, by the way, with my story. By the way, you're a very, you're a man of the world, you're a sports fan, you're a man who knows things, but I'm still going to put you to the test. Do you know the mascot of Pepperdine? Pepperdine. Pepperdine. I do not know the Pepperdine mascot. Oh, I feel vindicated in that.

I didn't, I couldn't have named DePaul before I looked it up in preparing our conversations. The DePaw Tigers. It's the Pepperdine waves. Ah, the waves. I went there, I didn't, my dad did not go there, but I wanted to walk on to, in my case, it was water polo and played for four years, played very, very gratuitous word, complimentary word for me. I was on the team for four years. But that's what took me to Pepperdine.

So, okay, cool, golf takes you to DePaul. And by the way, I also did the campus station there, broadcast journalism degree. And Brett, I left. Like, I left the idea. I wanted to be a sports broadcaster, you know. But I didn't like the major because I felt like it was teaching me to be an actor. It was all about like how, kind of how you present, perform, read a prompter. And these were things that I didn't enjoy learning.

It was until then I went to law school and enjoyed thinking that I began to think more again about journalism. Yeah, so, I mean, I was a double major. I was English and political science. So I was kind of focused on the studying part. The TV part was kind of on the side. I did enjoy, I knew that journalism was going to be it by that time. I had interned at a bunch of different stations. I kind of felt like that was my deal.

And I left there to write for CNN, actually, for Bernard Shaw in Atlanta. And then I got my first on-air job at WJWJTV, Hilton Head, South Carolina. that station is in Buford, South Carolina. And I was the low country bureau reporter covering loggerhead sea turtle nesting and what color the azaleas were in the media and all that stuff. Yeah, and then you, from what I understand, you send a tape in early to Fox News. You get hired as the Atlanta correspondent. But the part of your story that I find fascinating is September 11th happens.

You drive to Washington, D.C., you cover the Pentagon, and you never went back to Atlanta? At least that's what your bio says. So how did that happen? Roger Ailes, I assume, really liked the work you did covering the attack on the Pentagon. And next thing you know, you're the Pentagon correspondent. Yeah, that's exactly what happened. I mean, before I get to Fox, there's a couple more stops, local affiliates. And then Fox starts, I start, the Atlanta Bureau starts in my apartment with a fax machine, the cell phone. I cover the southeast and south and Central America, bouncing around, doing stories, beaming them up to the mothership in New York. And then 9-11 happens.

First plane hits, they say, we need you to back up in New York. You know, get a flight, come up here, do affiliate shots, Fox affiliate shots. Second plane hits, they said, we need you to drive. So a producer and me hop in the car from Atlanta start driving. Third plane hits, they reroute us to the Pentagon. and we start doing live shots for Fox affiliates around the country with the burning Pentagon behind me. And I never left.

We didn't have a Pentagon full-time correspondent there. And they said, do you want to be the Pentagon guy? And I said, yeah. So I was on a trip with then Defense Secretary Rumsfeld as he's making the case for war overseas. And they are packing up my stuff in Atlanta. And I'm getting a buddy to get me an apartment in Washington, D.C. and that started my career i covered the pentagon for six and a half years traveled to 74 countries

through the pentagon and then the white house but the funny story that i tell is that i give the advice always do the dishes if you're leaving on a business trip because over's packed up all my stuff in Atlanta and they wrapped the dirty dishes in the boxes so by the time i got home from over overseas. It was like an archaeological dig. You know, I'm like undoing chicken parmesan from weeks ago. So that's my piece of advice. It seems like, Brett, and listen, you know, there is no such thing as an overnight success. I really believe that. Maybe you can find your examples of that that I think are the outliers. Overnight successes are just the front-facing element of things that are built behind the scenes. But it seems like,

like, you know, it's a rocket ship that takes off from that moment. I believe, you know, within seven years, eight years, you're the host of Special Report after that. It's 10 years from joining Fox News to you hosting Special Report. But if you look at that, is that the big moment for you? Is it that trip to D.C.? Is it never returning to Atlanta? Like, what is the big moment for your career? 100%. It was 9-11. I mean, that was a game-changing moment that, you know, I had bounced around doing all kinds of stories, politics stories. I always wanted to be on Brit Hume's show. He was a mentor, it still is a mentor and friend.

And so, you know, in the early days, he used to call it a teaching hospital because he had a lot of young reporters, you know, and he was coming from Big Network TV. But, yeah, that was it when I got that move. I think covering Tallahassee, the recount really, you know, gave me little chops covering the president central recount down there and bouncing from courtroom to courtroom. But that moment of 9-11 and covering the Pentagon during the beginning of the war in Afghanistan and then the war in Iraq and traveling overseas, it really was the moment. You know, it's 15 years this past January since I took over for Britt, January 2009. And fortunately, he's still on the show. He'll be on the

show tonight as a, you know, chief political analyst. You know, I didn't get to do this, and I'm jealous that you did. And if I think about one of the most fun jobs to do, for me maybe, maybe this is very personalized, but one of the most fun jobs to do, I would think, would be the job that is now done by Peter Ducey, that you did, and Jackie Heinrich, and you did as well for a while. which is, you know, Chief White House correspondent, to be in that press briefing room, to be the only reporter in a room to cross-examine a president. Now, your situation is different in that you were covering George W. Bush, and the room sees its job as cross-examining the press secretary. But, you know, like, I think you would agree that, you know, Jackie or Peter are outliers within the room, largely.

And I just think that would be incredibly fun, especially with the Democrat. it president where the rest of the room is really this will be my characterization not yours but you've welcomed away and carrying water instead of doing the job of actually asking hard questions and i just think it would be incredibly fun to be i was in a much much lower level situation i was that voice on espn like the one voice saying something different in a way i started out at cnn i was not one but i've one of the few on cnn saying something different i just think it would be incredibly fun to do that and to cross-examine someone who's just not used to being cross-examined. Yeah, I mean, we used to covering the Bush administration.

Everybody was asking tough questions, I think, and there was, you know, a lot of effort to get the story of the day. The White House is an interesting place to cover because it's obviously a soda straw. It all comes out of there. But the best way to cover the White House is actually to talk to people outside the White House about what's happening behind closed doors. But Peter and Jackie do a fantastic job, and you're right. I mean, they are a shining light in that briefing room pressing on questions that end up being the news of the day. I mean, other networks take the answers that, you know, Peter and Jackie are questioning, and it becomes the news of the day. I think that's similar to when I took over for Britt, there were a number of stories, you know, saying, you know, there's young guys taken over, and the Obama administration is,

starting this is going to be the end of fox news so i would get these questions like is it the end of the network you know it's the obama administration i said the exact opposite you know we're going to be tough but fair but we're going to ask tough questions and you know we're going to cover the place uh you know not like everybody else i assume and in fact fox soared um during those times you know we became we were number one but kept on growing at that moment. Hey, you made a joke earlier. I'm just going to follow my own curiosity.

You made a joke earlier about it's the only way the Fox News guy gets on NBC, talking about your pants. You know, a former colleague of ours, Geraldo, I noticed this tweet that he put out the other day about his, it was marking the end of Curb Your Enthusiasm and this interaction he had with Larry David, how, you know, Larry David would not look at him, would not interact with him at Alan Dershowitz's house. Because he was Fox News, even if Heraldo said something different than a lot of people on Fox News, because he was Fox News. You know, I'm just curious, you live in a world that I don't live in, Brett, where you interact with, you know, a lot of people of different political backgrounds at high levels of power. But you also interact with a lot of people in the media who are at, I'm sure, and you're friends with a lot of people, I'm sure, from CNN or NBC or ABC. I'm curious what do you feel like in any way you are treated different? as a person because you are at Fox? Yeah, I mean, for years and years and years, people paint with a broad brush.

You know, we're like a newspaper, as you well know, a news side and an opinion side. And so, yeah, for the people who don't watch Fox who don't know me and what we do, yeah, in certain circles in Washington, you're not welcome. But over time, that goes away. And, you know, I've worked with a lot of those folks in other networks and other papers, established relationships. We often cover things differently. And I've been surprised, actually, since the Trump administration, how emotion has played in more and more to some coverage. And where it wasn't before, you know, as far as just reporting as opposed to being a motion.

about it. So, yeah, it does affect things. You know, it affects kids in schools. It affects all kinds of things. But it's been really good over time that Fox has invested in it in the news program to the point where, you know, in a lot of those circles, they realize that a lot of times we're leading the way on stories that they're following on and changed the dynamic. I didn't even think about that. I should have because I lived in New York City for 15 years and I experienced it, but now I live in Dallas. So when you talk about who cares how it affects you, right? It's affecting your kids in school. How it affects your kids in school is such an interesting point. You know I've only had a few personal conversations. I know the story of your son. You have two sons, as do I, one of which I think Paul was born with all the heart troubles. What I would love to just ask you, you don't have to rehash. I think a lot of people do know that story, but Um, how's he doing now? I mean, I know that's an incredibly hard. I don't know. I can only assume that's an, I know it's your low moment. You just said it recently in a, at an awards banquet. We all have our highs and lows. And for you, that's your low. Um, but how is he now? How is he today? He's awesome. He's, um, you know, he went through four open heart surgeries, 10 angioplastys. Um, yeah, I was touch and go at the beginning of his life. Uh, he is now six four. He's the guy that's beating me on the golf course. He is a, he is a, he's a, Oh, one nine handicap. And so as I was in the hospital all those times, I would have these images of walking down the first fairway with my son saying, that's how I'm going to get through these bad times.

Now I am walking down the first fairway with my son, and he's kicking my ass. So, you know, it is at one point a very wonderful thing, and it's beautiful, and then the other point, it's very humbling. No, but he's doing awesome, and we're blessed. I think he's out of the woods as far as other surgeries. His heart's pumping the right way, and he's a big boy. How old is he? He is 16. Got the driver's license.

He's a full-long-drault. I have a 6-4-16-year-old as well. Wow. 16 and 13. He cannot golf like your son. What's that? What's your other? You have two?

Two. The other one is he'll turn 13. 13 in a week or two. And I think he's going to be taller than the 6-4 kid. They both picked soccer. Daniel is a basketball player. He is six feet tall and he's 13. Wow, wow, six feet already.

Mine's 5-8 to 5-9 range. He soon be 13. He could be really tall. You're six feet at 13. He's a big more. He's playing AAU basketball. So back to the pro side here. for a second. Hardest interview you've ever done?

Hardest interview I've ever done? That's a good question. You know, I think that the President Obama interview before the health care law, three days before Obamacare passed the House, it was an interview that I think he just wanted to be 30,000 feet and kind of talked big picture about ACA, and I was really in the weeds. And so, you know, the The first question, he answered about four minutes long. And the second question, it was like two minutes long. And behind the camera was a guy with an iPhone that was ticking backwards from the 25 minutes that I was lauded. So I had a choice whether to press on these specifics or not, and I chose to press.

So it got a little heated there. But I was asking the question, do you get to keep your doctor? You know, like all these big things that were getting ready to be voted on. So that was probably the toughest interview. But I've had interviews overseas that, you know, in the middle of war zones that have been really tough, too. Seeing the young men and women serving over there in Afghanistan and Iraq was pretty tough, seeing their colleagues fall on the battlefield. You know, that experience with President Obama is something that I think people that watch. don't often appreciate and or it's it's such a delicate dance how much do I interrupt and

and President Obama was notorious for filibustering going incredibly long on his interviews and interviews that only are given a certain amount of time to talk um you know I think it's a dance even for me today not really today but it's often like hey when do interrupt when you let someone talk and you know I always err on not interrupt but you just have to sometimes you just it's just the way it is the toughest situation for you that i think can think of or one of the toughest is is debates like you you doing the debate like how much to interrupt how much to move it along how to be fair forget the debate prep on like what questions you're going to ask and all that that's got it's that's its own bear but just the dance of a debate moderation i'm i don't know i don't

know that you ever walk away from that feeling like you you know like a scratch golf game like it's It's a mess. So I met with the late Jim Lair, who I considered really, really good at that. You know, if you looked at a debate that he moderated, you didn't think about him. You know, you didn't think about the moderator. If you could come away from a debate and the moderator doesn't pop into your mind, that what pops into your mind are the answers of the candidates, that's a really good moderator, that you press, that you look for good questions. and react to answers, but you're not the story. You're not the focus. And so that's the real challenge. You know, these primary debates, it's about time, it's about juggling, it's about fairness,

it's about, you know, you don't be accused of not giving somebody equal time. But when you get down to two candidates, you know, it's a different ballgame. And you really want to just have that conversation be about them. Will there be a Trump-Biden debate? I think there will. I think there has to be at least one. That's what I'm thinking. I think if the president wants to say that he's capable at the job and wants to show that he can do it, he's going to have to get on that stage. Former President Trump is chopping at the bit, obviously, and I bet there'll be other efforts like town halls and that sort of thing. But there has to be at least one debate. And I wouldn't be surprised if they do. all of them. I would be a little surprised. All right.

Do you have a pick for Masters Champion? I think this year is going to be Rory's year. I think Rory is playing really well. He's coming into it in the right headspace. If he doesn't win, I think Dustin Johnson could surprise. And he's playing really well on the live tour and hits it a mile. So does Rory. The NCAA tournament taught me maybe sometimes it's just good to go chalk.

So I'm going to go Scotty Schaeffler. Yeah. No, he's awesome. And he seems to be an awesome person. I've never met him, and I'm a homer. He's from Dallas, but he seems to be an awesome guy. As was this conversation, I appreciate you entertaining the personal questions and the professional questions, and we'll be watching tonight on special report.

Thank you, Brett. All right, man. Have a good one. all right take care there you go it's brett bear a host of special report all right who wore it better um a host of fox and friends weekend or uh detroit tigers riley green tearing their pants who wore better next in the will cane show listen to the all new brett bear podcast featuring common ground in-depth talks with lawmakers from opposite sides of the aisle along with all your brett bear favorites like his all-star panel and much more available now at foxnewspodcasts dot com or we're

wherever you get your podcasts. Following Fox's initial donation to the Kerr County Flood Relief Fund, our generous viewers have answered the call to action across all Fox platforms and have helped raise $7 million. Visit go.fox forward slash TX flood relief to support relief and rebuilding efforts. Everybody's complaining about Major League Baseball's new uniforms. So it's put Riley Green of the Detroit Trigers

into a debate over who wore it better torn pants he or the host of fox and friends weekend will cane it is the will cane show streaming live at foxnews.com on the fox news youtube channel the fox news facebook page uh and always on demand at apple spotify or on youtube just hit subscribe and you can get the will cane show uh the new uniforms in major league baseball everyone is being complained is complaining about they fit poorly they apparently show sweat stains they go goes right through um and for riley green sliding in um they also apparently don't hold up in the seat you can take a look at an image here of riley green um i'm trying to see where his rip is it's down the seam of the outside of his

thigh uh now that led to this question Um, who's better or who's worse? Because we also have this image of your own Will Kane there on Fox and Friends weekend with ripped pants right down the backside of the crotch. Um, you can vote. Will Kane on X, see Will Kane on Instagram or Will Kane's Facebook. You can vote, which one, um, it's worse. Let's go to the control room really quickly with young establishment James and two-a-day stand.

Which would we vote here? That was pretty good. I mean, I don't know. The baseball uniform is tough because he was sliding into home plate during a game. What you were doing, you know, as exertion as it was, I just think that, you know, it's a little tough look when you're just splitting your pants there, you know. But I think I think the yours takes the cake, is what I'm saying. You know, as someone who's torn their pants, both on the baseball field and in public, wow.

You know, on the baseball field, you kind of get some props for it. They had a little comeback win. You're getting dirty. It shows effort and putting yourself out there for the team. In public, you kind of, it's almost more impressive because how'd you play it off? Yeah. I had never seen it before, by the way. I had never seen it.

So I'm going to self-vote that mine's more embarrassing. I was writing an inflatable horse. horse in honor of the Kentucky Derby around a studio in New York City and ripped mine right down the seat. No incredible effort on the baseball diamond. And it's not on the side like greens. It's right down the butt for me. So I don't know what that says about the size or the tightness of your pants or the weight that you've put on. You're wearing skinny jeans, man? What the hell? Wasn't even a real horse? Those are now in the trash. So you can vote at home on X, on Instagram or on Facebook, and you can, I guess, join the unanimous vote that who wore

better, Will Kane, a Fox and Friends weekend. All right, coming up, let's break down some deep history with Dr. Arthur Herman on the decline of Western civilization. Are we all being pessimistic? Can we take a historical view? Are we going to be okay? Or are we headed the path of Rome? That's coming up next on the Will Kane show.

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live at Fox News.com on the Fox News YouTube channel, the Fox News Facebook page, and hit subscribe at YouTube or Spotify or Apple to watch or listen to the Will Kane show. I could have this next conversation for two or three hours. I could have this next conversation until we arrive at not a solution, but of understanding. Where are we headed in Western civilization? Today, my guess is the author of The Idea of Decline in Western History. He's also the author of Freedom's Forge, and he's the author of The Viking Heart, How Scandinavians Conquered the World.

He is New York Times best-selling author, Dr. Arthur Herman. Dr. Great to have you on the show. I feel like I could spend an hour on each one of your books, and somehow we're going to try to tie them together in about 20 minutes. But thank you for being on the Will Cain Show. Sure. I mean, I've got time. We could be here. However, much time do you get sick of listening? Thank you. So let's start with Western civilization. You put forward, I believe, the idea that this is cyclical. People often take pessimistic views of their future. But it more often than not leads toward not just an outcome that is okay, but a better future for most civilizations.

This speaks to something that I am pretty inclined toward, which is optimism. One of my favorite books is The Rational Optimist by Matt Ridley. He talks about pessimism cells. But what actually occurs in most outcomes is optimism. But he does also talk about civilizations that have declined. And I think that we could look at, I don't know, the British Empire. We could look at current day Japan, and we could look at Rome, and it does seem like some civilizations come to an end. So where are we in the West?

Well, what I think is what we need to straighten out is the difference between decline as an actual economic sociological reality of what happens to societies when they do get trapped in a downward spiral versus the idea of decline. which is what happens when the elite in a society give up on the major principles, the basic ideals, and a sense of confidence in the civilization and the society which they run and become instead looking for ways to manage decline of their society or their country in that regard. You know, the late Dr. Charles Crouthammer, who was a big fan of the idea of decline, phrased it perfectly, I think. He said, decline is not a choice, not a destiny. And when you get yourself locked into a pessimistic mood about your country,

about the values of your civilization, if you become locked into a view that says there's really no point in trying to strive ahead for the future to make it better, but rather what we've got to do is now just sort of prepare the ground for what's coming next and for a future over which we have no control or no direction. That's when you see societies and civilizations losing heart and becoming exhausted in the process. And you know, for the last two Democrat presidents, the issue of American decline of looking forward to a post-American world, as Farid Zakaria framed it, one of his best-selling books, has been uppermost in their minds. And I think you can really understand

a lot of what's happened over the last three, four years in the Biden administration, of thinking them as America's Day is done, we are finished as a great power. It's now time to hand over the reins of global system to China, to the third world. It helps to explain a lot of what's happening at the open border, doesn't it? When you come to realize what they're really thinking about is that demographically, we are in the transition on the way to climb and that the change that comes by opening up the borders opens up a new era for America but also for the world here. But we really need, and I think I'm sensing this very much will right now,

And what's happening just in the last year or so is you're seeing a revival, the belief that America can see its way forward to better days, that we are not trapped by forces beyond our control, just the opposite. We're in a position now to shape our future and shape the direction by turning away from the idea that we are in decline or a post-American world is going to be better than ours, and that really our best days are really there to come. So, for one moment, I want to try my best to understand the mind of someone who sees the world differently than I. And it's, I, my inclination, doctor, is to always, and I could be wrong in this inclination, but it is to grant a benefit of the doubt as to motive. And I think it's unassadably true that there's a pestic mystic view of America's past. So the ideas and the people that made America on the left is seen pessimistically.

It is we are, you know, suffering from original sin, that our ideals should not be vaunted. But I would also think in trying to understand them that they have a utopic vision of the future. Now, my problem with them is the pursuit of utopia and the vision of utopia. What do you mean by utopia? But I would think that that for them at the very least is positive. Do they think they're managing decline or trying to revolutionize society into something they see as positive and better? I think that they do see a future that goes beyond where America is and where America has been. And they look ahead to a, as you said, and you stated it very well, a perfect utopian world in which, you know,

planet and the world, the world is in balance, the peoples are, and enjoy this, this tremendous sense of unity and community that goes with it. But what leads that sense of optimism, what leads them to think that there is some greater future beyond us is precisely because they see our world in decline, as you said, that they see American history pessimistically, that whereas As we, you and I think about American history, yeah, there were a lot of bad things about America's past, the racism, about slavery, about sectional conflict and prejudice. But what we see, we look at the course of American history, we see us overcoming those obstacles and building towards a better future and building a better at America.

And that's the real story of America. They don't, of course. They see it the past through a pessimistic lens. My idea of decline book is really about how utopian views of the future, the revolutionary views precisely spring from a sense that the world around us is dying and dead and deserves to be superseded. You know, one of the chapters in that book, which I think was very prescient, was about the green environmentalist book and the way in which the green utopian vision

here has shaped how we understand climate change in terms of climate change, not as, you know, of actual physical changes that are taking place in the planet, but as a death signature of Western civilization, that this is something which is inherent to what's inherently wrong with the West, with capitalism, with America, and that therefore overcoming the physical difficulties and challenges of climate change demands this sweeping cultural revolution that destroys the discredited past our world and replaces it with some hypothetical better future. So utopian views and declineist views go together, fit together. One leads to the expectations of the other.

So I want to come back to America in just one moment. So you diagnosed the cycle that can lead to decline as a mindset, particularly among the elites of pessimism. I think you and I would both agree the sort of cultural spirit of America is globally unique, or at least has been in the past. It was inherently optimistic. It was inherently better day tomorrow. And that's not coming from Washington, D.C., that's coming from the people of America, believing in themselves to create and build and to find a better life. And that's what attracted the best in the brides to the immigrants as well that had that

that spirit. So set America aside, I think we could both agree like the UK declined in the past hundred years, you know, Japan is declining over the last 20 years. Is it for the same reasons you just laid out? I think in the British case very much so. What you see in preceding the decline of Great Britain, quite apart from the actual loss of empire and the cost of fighting World War II, which drained away more than a quarter of Britain's national wealth, very difficult to try and recover that in any short period of time. But with it also came a belief that Britain's past, that it's past that had built that empire, that had built the most productive industrial economy of the 19th century.

And it also, too, defended the world's sea lanes through the British Navy because it was an empire that benefited everyone who was engaged and trained in commerce around the world. That that past was discredited, that it was based on a racist, imperialist, capitalist, ethos and that it was time to launch Britain in a new socialist direction. And so again, the link between seeing your world and seeing the values of your society as corrupt, as discredited leads naturally to, well, what can it come next in the future is some greater, more utopian vision. And that was very much the case with Britain, very much what took place with that. In the case of Japan, I think we're dealing with a non-Western society. There are certain other kinds of

challenge to go with it. In my own view, Japan's decline has been more on the economic sphere for adopting a Keynesian approach as opposed to a supply-child approach to handling political economy. But what you noticed in the last, oh, I would say five, six years has been an increasing confidence about Japan's role in the world. And I think a lot of the relationship between President Trump and Prime Minister Abe was a signal that Japan does see itself much more involved in the world now. There is an aspect of confidence about Japan's place and world affairs and the need to counterbalance China's role and rise in Asia. That is a marvelous opportunity for America. If we also can get back to a belief that we do have a powerful place and a powerful role to play,

and world affairs today. What, I mean, we could talk for hours and people have written books. What about Rome? Like, what led to the fall of the Roman image? Rome, I think we see, actually, you can find the same pattern. It takes place of, and if you look at, if you're a student of ancient history and of ancient Rome, one of the things that you notice is a cultural elite from, really from the early days of the of the empire all the way through to to the end of a deeply pessimistic view of their own

society. It's surprising, isn't it? Belief that liberty had been stamped out, that the empire had been taken over by the Caligulas and the Nero's and by a morally decadent elite, and that it was in many ways an empire that was right for, right for decline. and right for takeover by others. At the same time, too, we also have to remember it was a slave-driven economy. It was a slow-moving, inflexible economy. And so the impact of large-scale economic disasters

and demographic disasters, much more difficult to recover, much more difficult to regain footing and strength in this. One of the great benefits about capitalism is its ability to move beyond setbacks and move beyond recessions and even depressions and to regain a sense of both prosperity and also confidence that comes with it. And what I'm seeing right now, you know, another book that I did, Freedom's Forge, which was about the World War II generation,

what you call it the greatest generation, both the greatest generation that served in World War II, but also served in the shipyards and the factories. I see that coming again now, Will. I think we're about to see the rise of the next great generation for America. It's taking place now. I think you're going to be part of that. I think Phil Hankseth is part of that next greatest generation.

I think Rachel is. And I was just speaking last night to a group of 20-somethings and 30-somethings who are defense contractors and involved in remobilizing or defense industrial base. And I sense such energy, such confidence, such a belief in America's strength, but also a desire to defend America's interests around the world against the threats that we face here, that far from being pessimistic over what's happened over the last, over this past administration, what I feel is a great sense of confidence about what's coming and where

and where we could go. Well, I'm extremely flattered about what you just said, and I want to come back to it. But here's the challenge, okay, and it is to battle our own sense of pessimism, and there is a growing sense of pessimism on the right. And I think it actually ties in fairly well to your book, Freedom Forge. So I don't know, we've done, we've had this conversation here on the Will Kane show about the different iterations of the American Republic and different generational cycles that this country has been through and its relationship with its government. And there does seem to be,

and I think this is the source of some pessimism, actually, there does seem to be a shift in American governance post-World War II. And you point out, and you laud in many ways that it should be praised, the public-private partnership and the industrialization of America that actually saved the world from World War II. But what seems, at least in some minds, to have accompanied that, Dr. Sherman, is this idea that from that point, forward, we moved into a bureaucratic managerial state that was less responsive to the people. And whether or not the presidents were Republican or Democrat, the bandwidth of differential was fairly tight. And to this day, we're managed by, you know, I don't know if we could

call ourselves a republic. We call ourselves, you know, an oligarchy of the managerial class. But I think this is the source of a lot of pessimism. I think you just push your finger on a very important issue. And that is, what we're talking about is the rise of the administrative state, aren't we? In which regulators and administrators who are not answerable to anyone, let alone to the American people, are making the key decisions that shapes government and society and economy, and that this represents a threat, talk about threats to democracy, that this represents a truly existential threat to democracy,

in the way in which we can go forward and where that, you know, the optimistic view of future I've just set forward, one of the key obstacles to that development. But I think that where the crisis has come, because we've had an administrative state for a while, if you look at the architects for the original Apex Americana after World War II, the men and women who shaped the post-war liberal order that America presided over and that we defended as part as in the free world during the Cold War. A lot of key decisions were made by figures that we would call the administrative state, by a lot of power passed in the hands of bureaucrats and government officials. I think where the crisis comes today, Will, is that that elite now no longer

believes in America, that they have been taken over by a radical leftist ideology or are acquiescent to a radical leftist ideology that does see America as the real evil empire, that believes American capitalism is a failure and needs to be swept aside and replaced with a socialist utopia. And that's where I think we have, we face now a administrative state. This is It seems not to work in parallel with American democracy, but works directly in opposition in contradiction to it. So I think the administrator state rolling that back, returning power to the people and to its key institutions, particularly Congress, Congress needs to step up, huge part of the future

project for America and American renewal. But at the same time, we have to recognize that what's the mentality, what's the mindset, the cultural mindset of those who administer our key institutions. And today, far too many of them are beholden to a radical leftist, anti-American ideology. And that's where the battle is really joined. And where we really sense that this is a monster who is moving out of control. When it affects even institutions like the FBI, like the CIA, Department of Homeland Security, where we see an anti-American ideologies being acted out and performed, that's when we realize

that we're in a crisis mode and something really serious has to be done. Listen, you are singing a song that I want to join the chorus. I mean, I'm by nature and optimist, and I'm waiting for the moment. And unfortunately, I think we're going to have to go through a cycle of destruction and pessimism, even on the right, that to arrive at a moment of bad. building of creation, of optimism, of positivity. But I think there's just such a pent-up demand for it. I think there's such a hunger for a morning in America, you know, like Ronald Reagan. I really do. And I feel, you know, I'm old enough to remember that morning in America and what it was

like in 1980. Hell, I'm old enough to remember what it was like in 1968 when the country really did feel like it was coming apart. You know, we had assassinations of major political figures, Martin Luther King, and then Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. You had the Democrat National Convention. When the Democrats were the National Party, you talked about the party of the majority, and torn apart in the streets of Chicago in that convention here, and a war that seemed to be unending and unwinnable. That was a very dark moment for America. And you know what? We came through that. And we came through the dark moment of the 1970s with Jimmy Carter. in the Iranian hostage crisis and we came through.

And there was a mourning in America. I think we are going to see a similar moment coming very, very soon, certainly with this next presidential election, but then in its immediate aftermath as well. Because what I see is a rising generations, for whom that thirst for something larger than themselves, for something meaningful, for belief in the society, and the values that America has always, has always expressed, a hunger for that now coming through

and becoming part of our next chapter as a country. I hope you're correct. Let's leave off with this, Dr. Herman. So I don't think I could write the book, but I could make a two-minute argument. I could probably win a debate with my co-host Pete Heggseth of why the Scotch Irish were the foundational, you know, immigration group to. to create the pioneer frontier spirit of America, how, you know, and I'm from Texas, and most people from the South are from Texas, or at least in part, you know, direct lineage

from the Scott Irish. But you've written a book about the Scandinavian, so you're going to give Pete Heggseth, you know, my Norwegian friend, a lot of ammunition. So go ahead and make the quick argument for the Scandinavians here for Pete Heggseth. Well, listen, you know what? I have to tell you, I've written the, I've done the case for both of you, haven't I? Because I did a book called How the Scots Been in the Modern World, which was a New York Times bestseller, which talks about precisely the role of, they're called the Scots Irish. That's kind of misleading.

It's really the Ulster Scots. And their role in contribution to the shaping of America in the first part of the 19th century, but the Scandinavian American and the great migration that takes place in the second half of the 19th century becomes a huge part of the shaping of both of the future. of the American frontier, but also of American politics, of American society. And my book, The Viking Heart, is in addition to a history of the rise of the Vikings as the great shapers of globalization on the very tail end of the dark ages. But it's also about how what it is that made the Vikings so successful and such a powerful force for such a small group of people from a very remote and inhospitable region was that sense of family, a sense of community, of commitment, of commitment and risk-taking

of being willing to venture out into the unknown. And that's what they brought with them to America. And I think it's very much that same spirit that's going to be part of what will make that, what I call the next greatest generation as well. And you don't have to be a Scandinavian, American in order to partake to draw upon that, draw upon that arsenal of virtues and strengths. So when Hexeth makes the argument, when he adopts your argument of the Viking heart, and he makes it to me, my final rebuttal will be, despite all that adventuresome, despite all that exploration, you ended up leaving your inhospitable environment and settled in the exact same place in America. Welcome to Minnesota, the Scandinavia of America. I never understand the explorers who sought out the exact place they left in a new land. Yeah, with just more acreage.

Yeah, right, with just more acreage. Minnesota, the Norway of America. All right, doctor, I really appreciate the conversation, Dr. Arthur Herman here on the Will Cain show. I'd love to talk to you again. I love the context. I love the history, and I love the optimism. Thank you so much. Any time, Will, happy to talk to. It's been greater.

All right. There we go. Check out any of his books, Freedom Forge, the Viking Heart, how Scandinavians conquered the world, and the basis for most of our conversation, the decline, the idea of decline in Western history. It's Dr. Arthur Herman here on the Will Kane Show. There you go. A lot for you today. Make sure you subscribe. Make sure you share it with your friends. And I will see you again next time. on the Wilcane show.

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