Will Cain Country - Brian Kilmeade: How Teddy Roosevelt & Booker T. Washington Blazed a Path for Racial Equality

Episode Date: November 27, 2023

Will is joined by Co-Host of FOX & Friends and Host of The Brian Kilmeade Show on FOX Talk, Brian Kilmeade for a historical deep dive into his new book, Teddy and Booker T: How Two American Icons Blazed a Path for Racial Equality. They discuss the consequences of the historic dinner between Teddy and Booker T, how, despite some of Roosevelt's faults that could be credited to him being a man of his time, he evolved on race, and why America is the most successful multicultural nation in the history of the world.    Plus, Will asks the listeners what historical moments he should cover on the podcast.   Tell Will what you thought about this podcast by emailing [e-mail]   Follow Will on Twitter: @WillCain Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For a limited time at McDonald's, enjoy the tasty breakfast trio. Your choice of chicken or sausage McMuffin or McGrittles with a hash brown and a small iced coffee for five bucks plus tax. Available until 11 a.m. at participating McDonald's restaurants. Price excludes flavored iced coffee and delivery. Teddy Roosevelt and Booker T. Two iconic American figures that gave us a model for race relations in America. It's the Will Kane podcast on Fox News Podcast. What's up?

And welcome to Monday. As always, I hope you will download, rate, and review this podcast wherever you get your audio entertainment at Apple, Spotify, or at Fox News podcast. You can watch the Will Kane podcast on Rumble or on YouTube and follow me on X at Will Kane. I've gotten several emails from you, appreciative of the fact that we've been doing our History of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, three parts in what will be a four-part series. I enjoy deep diving into history. I enjoy getting lost in the rabbit hole.

Reading articles, listening to podcasts, reading books, watching documentaries, and when I'm all done, and I feel like if I haven't wrung every fun bit of detail and understanding out of history, have I've at least internalized it into some loose understanding, then, and once I've arrived at that moment, then I'm ready to find the best piece of fiction or dramatization of that history. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, I can't remember the name of the movie, but after I dove into the Ukraine conflict and watched documentaries about Hitler and the Nazis and World War II in Ukraine and Holodomor, the Russian, you know, person. of Ukraine. Once I've done all that, then I wanted to watch that movie. I think it's called,

I think it's called Mr. Smith, which is about the starvation of the Ukrainian population under the regime of the Soviet Union. I want to go find movies about that history once I've figured it out. Right now, that is what I am doing with the Middle East, with Israel and Palestine. And I'm still reading and I'm still listening to podcasts, but I've already begun to watch fiction as well. I've been burning through. I finished it now, the series on Netflix, Fowda. And I've been thinking about watching this movie called Golda, which stars Helen Mirren as the Prime Minister of Israel during the Yom Kippur War. So I love it. And I wanted, and I will and want to do it more. So what I would ask you at Will Kane podcast at Fox.com is what would you like me to dive into next?

Like, I invest all this time. I really do into watching, reading, listening, and understanding history and then enjoying being entertained by history and then sharing it with you. So I think about, well, what will I do next? What would you like to have me share? What would you like to talk about together? And I would love to hear from you. What big moment in history would you like or appreciate another deep dive? Wilcane podcast at Fox.com.

Here today on The Wilcane Show, we deep dive into basically early 1900s United States of America, President Teddy Roosevelt, masculine, cowboy, patrician, wealthy, governor of New York, Rough Rider, War Hero, president of the United States, and Booker T. Washington, born a slave, advocate for African American advancement through industry, education, technical skills, self-empowerment. These two men, same period of time, dine together in Washington, D.C., in a moment that honestly divides the nation in many ways, but also gives us a model for race relations. Brian Kilme, the host of Fox and Friends and One Nation on Saturday nights on the Fox News channel has written a new New York Times bestseller entitled Teddy and Booker Tee, how two American

icons blazed a path for racial equality. Brian Kilme did you join me today here on the Will Cain podcast to talk about his new book about Teddy and Booker Tee. Stop. Do you know how fast you were going? I'm going to have to write you a ticket to my new movie The Naked Gun. Liam Nissan. Buy your tickets now. I get a free Tilly Dog. chili dog not included the naked god tickets on sale now august first from the fox news podcasts network hey there it's me kennedy make sure to check out my podcast kennedy saves the world it is five days a week every week download and listen at foxnewspodcast dot com or wherever you listen to your favorite podcast brian kilmead co-host of fox and friends my friend and the author of a new book teddy and booker

T, two American icons who blazed a path for racial equality. Another entry in your pantheon of books about American history. Why did you focus on these two characters, Kilmead? Why Booker Tee and why Teddy Roosevelt? I actually read Booker Tee before doing the Frederick Douglass, a Lincoln book, the President Freedom Fighter, because up from slavery, I love the firsthand perspective of what it was like being called to the central house and a plantation and being told. you're free, he brings us there, never had shoes, never remembers sleeping on any place but

the dirt floor, having the same meal every day. And then to see that story, Arc all the way to be one of the most influential people in America as a black man in 1860s, 1870s, you got my attention. And then as you research, book, as you watched you, saw Taye Roosevelt all over it. And I thought, let me find out if I'm forcing this. So I went over to Tweed Roosevelt, who said, L.I.U., the school I graduated from, runs the Roosevelt school. And he said, absolutely not. He goes, you're not forcing it at all. Just know that Teddy said some things that shows he was a man of his times. He was his great grandfather. And he said, he had some blind spots. But for the most part, he was just so inspired by the

self-made man that just defied the odds. He just loved him. So I want to talk about the intersection of these two characters. Your book focuses on that, but it also gives a great history into each of them as individuals. So I want to start with them as individuals. Let's start with Booker T. Washington. He seems to be, Brian, a little bit the forgotten man in the advancement of African American civil rights and American history. Of course, there are schools and buildings named after Booker T. Washington everywhere you go. But as the African American civil rights movement progressed the 20th century, it's almost as So Booker T's vision for the advancement of black people lost. It lost to W.E.B. Dubois and the idea of a direct conflict over civil rights, direct action, and sort of the progressive dynamic of the group pushing forward as opposed to Booker T's sort of pull yourself up by your bootstraps, individualism to advancement for black Americans. Yeah, for Du Bois. Why do you think he's been, why do you think he lost Booker T? that sort of fight for the vision for the future of black Americans. Well, a couple of things. I don't think in history anyone loses these ups and downs.

For example, people say that if you look at a figure in history, if you were betting, put money on grant. Because now looking at his life, they used to say that guy was corrupt and he drank too much. But if you really look at his life and what he did, the more you appreciate who he was and what he accomplished, there were people around him that were corrupt. He wasn't. and he did drink, but he knew he had a problem. He would do it in surges, and it hurt his military career, but didn't hurt his presidency.

So right now, maybe Burgerty, Washington isn't the hottest name in the black community, but don't tell that to Colonel Allen West. Don't tell that to Thomas Sol. You know, don't tell that to other people that interpret things differently about what they want out of life where America is. and if you look at what I think from my perspective, why? It's because Bookerty Washington doesn't know what the word grievance means. He doesn't sit there and complain.

He's just a guy of action. This guy doesn't like me. Okay, I don't hate you. I can't waste energy on hating and resenting. I'm going to move to people I can work with. So that gave him the guts and the guile and the focus to go knocking on doors in Massachusetts in New York and say, Hi, I'm Booker T. Washington. I got this small school in Tuskegee. I'm looking to grow the African-American community and teach them skills and give them a great education. Can you help? And he began to win people over. When that door slammed in his face, he didn't hate. He moved on. Tell me how that cannot help everybody. When people dislike you, which in our business will, believe it or not, not in your case, but in mind, it happens. The thing that you could give them most is your hatred. That means you give them your focus. I'm reading Booker Tee,

Washington and his focus in life in 1880 and 1890 and I'm going wow I can learn so much from that is when people dislike you he doesn't let it land and yet wb de boys and saying it's wrong it's wrong that people are treated differently it's wrong that we can't get into these schools it's wrong in the south for people to write like this for integrated marriage to be a problem and he says yeah I know but this is the life we're in and this is the area I live in it does no good to be an activist, I'm going to be an educator. And I just love that focus. And if you don't like that in 2023, maybe you'll like it in 2027 with 2037. Yeah, I like that. There's a long arc to history and it's not direct. It has its ups and downs. And I agree. I love the message of Booker T. It's such

one of self-empowerment. You know, help us understand that, Brian, because he, I think he was one of the last great activists that were born into slavery. But his vision was, hey, let's create these colleges, like you mentioned, what we now call the Tuskegee Institute, Tuskegee College. Let's learn technical skills, talking to his fellow blacks. Let's learn technical skills, hands-on application of education. Let's build up our ability as a community by accumulating education and wealth. Yes. So you came to these schools and the parents of newly freed slaves who would be like,

my kid's going to be educated and said yes and they're going to learn a skill no i don't want them in the fields no they'll be in the fields they're going to build up our school i almost think it's karate kid style you know the guy got his fence painted but he also learned defense so he's getting a school built by the students who are learning a skill and a trade and they go to the classroom night school day school they broke it up and we pick pick a trade carpentry fine agriculture fine uh i want to be in brick bricklayer brick maker fine women had jobs, and we're teachers. You're all going to be, whether it's traditional roles,

seamstress for things like that, or eight traditional roles. It's with farming or just growing food. So everyone had a skill. And one of his reasons was, to the original point, was when you get out of here, there's going to be reluctance to hire you, so you have to be indispensable. I don't hate the America we're in.

I recognize it, and I'm willing to compete for it. And I'm just going to paraphrase something. I usually carry around with me. And basically he says there's no doubt about it. And they use the word not black Negro. It's harder for a Negro young man or women to make it in this country. But by the obstacles that you clear, by the things that you overcome, you are going to be so much more prepared for the success you will have in life

because of the difficulties you had in getting them. So, wow, I almost felt bad for someone born on third base. because he's saying, don't worry about it. We're going to get there. You're going to get there, and it's going to be hard. And I told you it's going to be hard. But when you arrive, man, are you going to be ready as a parent, with your career, as a role model? And, man, I just, a lot of times I would get chills reading his words.

He's got about 17 books out there. Teddy Roosevelt endorsed, I think it was his last book, was the forward to his book. And he loved it too. You know, he loved reading it. And him and his wife, I think it was April 19. one they met. But they read the book. They had a pre-release copy. And she said to Teddy, who was vice president at the time, you got to meet this guy. This is your ticket to understanding the South. And they did. And they pledged to work together. Yeah. And it's not that Dubois was wrong.

You did have to fight on the civil rights front. You did have to fight against all those horrific things in society you talked about. And in fact, Booker T did sort of behind the scenes. He did advocate for changing American laws. I want to move to Teddy Roosevelt. I'm curious your take on Roosevelt. He's a complicated figure for me. And we'll get to race relations and we'll get to Booker T and Teddy Roosevelt in just a moment. But you said, you got to judge a man in his time. And I think I have to do that when I think about Teddy Roosevelt as well. On one hand, I love his overt embrace of masculinity. I love his love of the West. He wanted to be a cowboy and a cattle rancher in the Dakotas. I love his idea of you need to be what is a strenuous life. You need to, you know,

physically and mentally and be challenged throughout your life, taking up jujitsu at points in his life. But on the other hand, Brian, he's sort of like, if not the father, he was suchly an early adopter of the progressive movement. And this is where I have my struggle. You know, in fact, he left the Republican Party to found the Bull Moose Party, also known as the progressive party and run for president. And he was trust busting and advocating. for an eight-hour workday. So the times were different. You were in the rough and tumble times of the Industrial Revolution. But, you know, I do have, I do struggle a little bit with who was this guy in American politics. And was that a, was that a beneficial force in pushing progressive

policies at that time, early of 20th century? I mean, yeah. I mean, you could look back at what he stood for and what he did. And you could decide what you think. But I will say one thing, he was willing to take on the establishment in every way, whether his police chief, going out with a journalist, a photographer, and taking pictures of illegal immigrants who were making cigars in small dilapidated apartments, not even registered as immigrants. They were being taken advantage of. So he was willing to get his hands dirty and go into areas of the city, into looking to take on law enforcement, set up an academy, set up rules, give them uniforms, give them hours, set up a structure. He also took a job to break up the bureaucracy. I think it was under

I don't know if was Hayes or Grover Cleveland ended up keeping him there. He got hired by a Republican. Grover Cleveland kept him there because he was just in there breaking up bureaucracy. You guys will be more efficient. You got to get a sense of time, a sense of accomplishment. He sent up his own meritocracy in there. Then took a step back and got out of politics for a while.

But overall, he was somebody in environmentalists, you could say, setting up the state parks across the country, trying to preserve a lot of territories. But at the other way, he would, was a self-made to pick up your, pick yourself up by your bootstrap's guy. He was about accountability, about integrity, and about honesty. And he was about asserting himself in places in the country to make the country better. I know he had a must-add-a-healthy ego, but man, he had a healthy intellect, too, read a book a day, speed reader, photographic memory, it seems. So, yeah,

it was somewhat of a diverse from a Republican as we view them now. But Will, would you also say it's the case that 10 years ago, Republicans had a different perception than they do now, more of a blue-collar party now. The working man sees more since Trump came in with the Republicans. So, and I would say this, this I did not know. Tweed told me that they were cueing up Teddy. He made amends with the Republican Party to run for the next election after he lost and divided the Republican Party, taking more votes than Taft, giving Woodrow Wilson the job. He was all set to run again, and he died at 59, 60 years old. So there was going to be another chapter, and the Republicans had agreed to let him back in. Yeah, I like, I think you're absolutely right to kind of bring Teddy

Roosevelt into modern times, because we have moved into more populist and blue-collar direction with the Republican Party. And I think it's hard to look back. You know, historical figures, years, Brian, are kind of turned into lions and devils. There's very little understanding of historical figures as nuanced. We celebrate or we revile historical figures. For example, Wilson, I have a pretty negative view of Wilson across the board. But we're talking about a time in American history prior to World War II where everything we know of today, from the economy to the military industrial complex, did not exist. I mean, the government was tiny. And so it's hard for me to say, was Teddy Roosevelt right or was he wrong to be this progressive in 19, what was it? He ran for that. That was in like 1910, right? It was 1912 election. He broke off and formed the Bull Moose Party. So I don't know. I don't know what my judgment. I don't think I should turn him into a line or a devil, but I don't know my judgment on Teddy Roosevelt. So I would say this. I love the strong defense, willing to take on all comers. He saw greatness in America and he wanted to spread it around.

He had the ruggedness, a rich guy with seven generations of wealth who was not afraid to become a rancher and sleep on the floor or grind it out and take the mocking of ranchers because he was wearing glasses and he was a little bit shorter than the other guys, but they ended up winning their respect. It takes a lot of guts to be able to do that. And especially when a kid that grew up with asthma, never really engaged. If anything was not involved in physical activity, he would be bullied if anything else. and then said, okay, now that I grew out of asthma, now that I'm finally healthy, I'm going to build up my body.

His dad actually bought him weights, and you know what he did the rest of his life? He's talked about it and what he did in war. Quit as his assistant secretary of the Navy to go into the military and be a colonel. He said, okay, you'll be a general. He goes, I can't be a general. I don't know anything.

So he wanted to train, recruited all the guys, got him in there, nicknamed him, sent him over, made sure they want and gotten the war. So there's so much to respect an animal. analyze. And yet, I'm not saying that some of the things he said about blacks were the most racially sensitive things you ever heard. There weren't blind spies. But he also had a mom who grew up in the South whose two brothers fought for the Confederacy. And they refused to really take another loyalty oath back to the country. And they stayed in England the rest of their lives. But they were his inspiration to write his book on the War of 1812. So I look at him as somebody, I can't judge,

but to analyze. Because he did what he wanted to do, and he had this vision. So you brought us now to the point where these two men intersect, and that is, at least in part, on race relations. So you mentioned this blind spot several times. Before we even get to this historic invitation for dinner, of Booker T. Washington at the White House once Teddy Roosevelt was president, what was Roosevelt's view on race relations?

I mean, he thought that the whites were superior in some ways, some blacks, but yet at the same time, he would push for equality. He would put people in judge positions, in postmaster positions, like Minnie Cox and William Crum, and push back on anyone that says they couldn't do the same job as a white man. And what he would say to Booker T. Washington is, I'm going to use you as my advisor. Don't tell me the color of someone's skin or their gender. want the best person. At the same time, when he would, with some southern audiences, maybe to win them over, he would say things that he thinks they needed to say in order to get, maybe you get to win their vote. So you see some things that go, wow, Teddy Roosevelt, man, he was out of it. But at the same time, his actions and his statements and serving on

Tuskegee's board and the great work he did there and the unbelievable commencement address, does that overcome it? I mean, you have some things that Lincoln said. I read every speech that Lincoln said, I read. And there was some things that Lincoln said, everybody deserves to be free, but I'm not saying we're all equal. I'm not saying we're all equal. Really? Okay.

A little bit later, he evolved. So he doesn't say, I evolved. You just read this stuff a little bit later, and he evolved. Benjamin Franklin, he was head slaves. He ends up dying as an abolitionist. He believed early on in his life, while whites are smarter than blacks. Then when he sees African-Americans,

black's getting educated, He goes, wow, I was wrong. So, wait a second. So the smartest man maybe to ever live, certainly the most versatile, diverse, impactful, he admits that he had to grow in his life. Teddy Roosevelt had to grow in his life because you can't help who you're born into.

Probably in his life, his mom with him all the time, his dad working. His mom was probably saying a lot of things like, I grew up with slaves. You know, the civil war, he was six when the civil war in. when Lincoln gets assassinated, he's six years old. So the Civil War is not something he had to read about. He only does talk to his mom and his family.

So if he said some things were racially insensitive, I understand it. But as he evolved and grew and he said some things, he spoke at Bookerty Washington's funeral, and he basically said, you know, he's a credit to his race, and that's the human race. And, you know, Bogotty Washington never said anything but great things about him. you know your your point is well taken that even even lincoln's history is not pure and all of these men

all men for that matter are imperfect and also a product of their time so with that in mind again this moment in time you're talking about the very early 1900s why was it so consequential for roosevelt to invite booker t washington to dinner at the white house how come uh they didn't realize it was going to be a big deal they both didn't maybe booker t had more of a sense of it Because, you know what, when he turns out Teddy Roosevelt was governor of New York, blacks would sleep over at the governor's mansion all the time. People think it was a big deal. He served with the Buffalo soldiers, black unit in Cuba.

Didn't think it was a big deal. He heard Booker T. Washington was in Washington, and he said, wrote him a letter. The letter exists. It's in the book. And he said, would you come over dinner? And he said, how can I reject the president? But there was part of him so worried about Tuskegee and any type of negativity that could be brought on him that said he shouldn't. But he goes, how could I turn down the president?

And if it wasn't for one guy to say, can I see the guest book? And Bugatti Washington's name was there and he realized he had dinner, then it ends up being this huge firestorm because no, it's never been done before for a black man to eat with the President of the United States and his family, evidently, that was a big deal. And believe me, there was nothing instinctible, instinctual about this research. I go, and a lot of times I said, and what's the problem? But they said for then, at that time, it was a bad message because there was people in the South that wanted to make sure that blacks did not become equal with whites.

And they were willing to segregate schools and segregate business and make sure that there was no interracial marriage to do it. And then when you go show the most famous black men in America, having dinner with the most powerful man in America, they were afraid this could ripple and we might actually have equality. So the horrible headlines existed that are still that I put in the book, and I talk about in the Fox Nation special, that rolled out that made both men say, let's continue this relationship, but let's be smarter

about it. Right. And let's bring it on the ongoing. That's the ongoing relationship between Booker T. Washington and Teddy Roosevelt. And, you know, I guess the ongoing relationship was no more dinners at the White House, but they continued to meet and they continued to consult, right? Yeah. And a lot of people say, well, why did you give in with her that? You know, so insulting. Not really. You know, it was Mark Twain never liked Teddy Roosevelt. I thought he was a big showman like show horse that where he loved mark twain love bookerty Washington and i think it was two weeks later it could have been two months they were both asked to speak at yale and he was and bookerty washington would become the first honorary degree uh from yale he'd get it you know who

would think and tady rosevelt was also invited there and they stayed away from each other and at one point tayre roosevelt went up to mark twain and said you know you think i made a mistake and he said probably the way you did it and the timing could have been better thought out but I'm not saying you were wrong. But he thinks that Mark Twain thought, you made things harder for Booker Tee, not necessarily for you. And he'd think you should have thought about it.

But I think both, there's nothing I read that saw that they anticipated this firestorm at all. But what I did put in the special will is a cut of John McCain after he lost. He said in his concession speech losing Barack Obama, he said there was a time in which when Booker T Washington was invited to the White House, It was controversial.

Now a black man coming, eating with a white family. Now a black man will be hosting that, hosting that dinner. And that's how far America has come. And that's why I want people to understand. This is my old goal. If these people can put so much on the line and segregated the segregated South in America that needed to come together still 50 years after the Civil War. To look at 2023 and take a knee during the Women's World Cup game

or during a San Francisco 49er football game and say America's imperfect or there's endemic racism is an insult to the men and women like Douglas and Lincoln and Booker Tee and Teddy who did so much to push us as far as we've come

and I still say and not many people can argue in the most successful multicultural country in the history of the world. Not perfect, but we're trying to be thanks to unexpected people like this. I think it's a historical fact

that we're the most successful multicultural country in the history of human civilization, not just in modern times, but in the history of human civilization, the United States of America. One more historical question. So what do you think was the impact of Booker T. Washington on Teddy Roosevelt? He just saw what a black man was capable of. If maybe he learned as a young man, something different. and I think that if you want to know what he thought, read his commencement address that he gave a Tuskegee.

It looks like the beginning party ad-libbed because he looked out, he took a tour. He saw these great men and women, teachers and students, so industrious, so innovative, so productive. They learned basics of hygiene. They learned how to present yourself, how to make eye contact, learn the books. And I think he was overwhelmed all.

almost. By the time he got to the text of his speech, and I think he was in awe of what this man accomplished. And I think they also knew this. It wasn't about them. It was about their cause. Teddy Roosevelt, to make America better, and Booker T. Washington make the experience of black men and women better in America. And that was more important than their relationship. And they demonstrated a couple of times, one with the Buffalo soldiers got themselves involved in controversy. Bookerty Washington said, Mr. President, you're wrong on this. It was not their fault. Do not punish the whole unit.

These are trumped up charges. And in the end, he said, nope, they were involved. They're all court-martialed. And the other time when Teddy Roosevelt asked Booker T for an endorsement, when he was running against Taft and Woodrow Wilson, Booker T says, what's better for my, if I endorse you and you lose, it's going to hurt Tuskegee. Can't endorse you.

I hope you understand. He said, I understand. Because it was all about the cause. It's not about them. You know, I know we needed a big ego, Teddy Roosevelt to do what he did. But I also thought, man, this guy just bled red, white, and blue. Yeah, you know what I like about what you had to say as well is Booker T's impression on Teddy Roosevelt is also the impact of a single individual of what one, of seeing a man as a man in which you can accomplish as a man, regardless of your affiliation, your group, your race, or whatever it may be. be to show the unlimited potential of the individual, of the man. You know, you talked about, you know, where we are now. And, you know, you talked about kneeling and I guess the idea of original sin for America that so many are, you know, excited to display and highlight. But we also live in a time, Brian, where, I mean, black and white relationships, I mean, outside of maybe the historical blip on the radar that has been the last.

five years, I would say black and white relationships are at a high point, meaning, you know, you've got... I hope so. I think so. I think on an individual basis that happens to be the case outside of sort of the activist realm. You know, if you look at human behavior, we're integrated, not completely, but we're more integrated. We're intermarried. We are, we are coworkers in a way that we would never have arrived at that level throughout American history. So with seeing where we are today, but also with this sort of activist moment of embracing sort of the essentialism of your race, what is it that we can learn from Teddy Roosevelt and Bookerty Washington? How can we apply that to modern day America? I would say, look, you have certain preconditions in your life

by the parents you have, by the schools you went to, by the town you were brought up and probably had nothing to do with you. You probably didn't make the decision at six, seven, eight years old where you're going to live military family parents grew up got it but if they could overcome the circumstances of their birth uh and in one case when tay roosevelt the leveler but doesn't make equal slavery i'm not saying it's equal was his health the guy almost died he was his parents would sit and look at him choking on asthma could not breathe they didn't know what to do doctors would say we have nothing i don't think he's going to live so when you have those type of circumstances. Everyone's got something. You could make life a university or you could say this is my

life and this is what I'm in. All great people evolve and don't be hard on yourself if you felt one way in 2004 and you feel differently in 2010. And that's what I think life is. Great people evolve. They don't just, you know, you always hear people, emotional growth stops at whatever age when you get married or your parents die. Everyone has a theory. That's a choice. That's a choice. And I think there There are so many examples. I was watching Ken Griffey Jr. And he is standing up and they were celebrating one of those great Seattle Mariner teams. And he said, I got to point out Jay Buehner is a white guy. And he said, what this Hick had to do with me and where I came from, where he came from. But we had become so close that if something was happening to me and my wife, I made it clear

that Jay Buehner would raise my children. Why is that not an example that's rippling throughout the country? You know, why is that two people? people that get to know each other. I mean, sports again, led the way with integration when it came to baseball and football and everything, made people think differently in the stands, okay, maybe even in that locker room. And at the same time, how many times do you see, I'm watching Aaron Rogers talk to, I think it was, Devante Adams, with the Raiders. And they're hugging each other, talking about what they mean to each other. Why is that not an example? Well, would you think that they care black or white? They don't even think about it. But it's like

America is going out of their way to make you think about it. And I think we should be aware we're being manipulated and don't let it happen. Be racially sensitive. I remember Tim Scott said President Trump is not racist. Sometimes you can be racist and sensitive. And I would go in and just tell me, yeah, by the way, not probably not the best thing to say. Got it, understood. But it doesn't mean you're racist. So everyone walks around on eggshells. It doesn't want to bother. I think that we have to start, we have to start realizing there's nothing there to separate us. Most people don't look at anybody any different. If you could help my team, help my company, help my neighborhood, love to have you. I don't care what color you are. Don't care what gender you are. I don't care

if you're gay or straight. What kind of person are you? Most people agree with that. And I just think people go out of the way to make it seem like we don't. That is awesome. I love that moment between King Griffey Jr. and J. Buneer. You're exactly right. And it should be a model. It should be a model for all of us as individuals. It's awesome. Teddy Roosevelt and Booker T. Washington, a great model of an individual relationship that helps move in a country forward. And it's a great, once again, historical Page Turner read from Brian Kilmeet. Man, I appreciate you being with us today. Everybody go pick up the book. I think it's a great Christmas present and a great model. And Brian, you've done it once again. Congratulations.

Thanks, Will. And again, thank you for the power bars at the Patriot Awards. I was literally hadn't eaten since 2 o'clock in the afternoon. I only saw the Mountain Dew, but you came back with food as if you were reading my mind. And we feasted on those power bars that brought us at least to the end of the show. That's not exactly true. That's a survivalist instinct in you. You could live out in the fields. It's a charitable description that is not entirely true.

So to set the record straight, because I'm nothing, if not entirely true with my audience, Kill Meade. We were at the Patriot Awards. We had to probably do about a four or five hour stretch with no dinner. And it was way past Kilmead's bedtime, way past. And we were sitting at the same table, and he went backstage for a moment and came back with a Mountain Dew, which blew my mind. Because Brian Kilmead does not eat or drink anything unhealthy. And I was blown away that here he was at 8 o'clock at night drinking a Mountain Dew. We were all hungry, so I went backstage later, grabbed myself a Mountain Dew, and thought,

I need some food. I saw a bunch of power bars and granola bars, and I brought them back to the table. Yes, because, you know, I like to give back. And you didn't partake. You know, you could look at it as I was this survivalist instinct that was there to help. Or you could say, I saw a crack in your armor that you were ready to fill with Mountain Dew, and I was ready to swim through with all types of junk food and turn you into Pete Heggseth. But you declined, and you would not.

You gave up one little weakness, Mountain Dew, but you did not turn. Turn that into a cliff bar. You're right. But it was a great gesture on your part. And number two, I'm there for the caffeine, baby. I mean, you're up at 2.30 in the morning, like, when you do these shows, and then you're doing a show to a award show at 9 o'clock at night, and I'm thinking I still got to go on stage. So I went to Mountain Dew.

I don't recommend kids watching this who have to go to an award show and give a presentation. Like the 9 and 11-year-olds that watch your podcast, don't go Mountain Dew. It's not the answer to everything. was my answer. And I'm going to go to the doctor and I'm going to take a blood test and see if I am on the path of the healthy path. Teddy and Booker Tee, how two American icons blaze the path for racially quality. Brian Kill me. Thanks, man. All right. Stay within yourself, Will. I'm Janice Dean. Join me every Sunday as I focus on stories of hope and people who are truly rays of sunshine in their community and across the world.

Listen and follow now at foxnewspodcast.com. There you go. I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Brian Kilmead. If you did go pick up the book, Teddy and Booker T, how two American icons blazed a path for racial equality. And if enjoyed this episode of the Wilcane podcast, please go leave a comment or give it a five-star review. I'll see you again next time. Listen to ad-free with a Fox News Podcast plus subscription on Apple Podcast and Amazon Prime members. You can listen to this show ad-free.

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