Will Cain Country - Chris Mannix: This Will Be The NBA Finals Matchup

Episode Date: May 24, 2024

On this edition of The Will Cain Show’s Friday sports episode, Will sits down with Senior NBA Writer at Sports Illustrated, Chris Mannix, to discuss the NBA Conference Finals matchups. Mannix gives his expert take on whether or not Boston has what it takes to finally go all the way, and goes matchup by matchup breaking down the fiercely contested series between the Minnesota Timberwolves and Will's Dallas Mavericks.  Tell Will what you thought about this podcast by emailing [e-mail] Subscribe to The Will Cain Show on YouTube here: Watch The Will Cain Show! Follow Will on Twitter: @WillCain Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For a limited time at McDonald's, enjoy the tasty breakfast trio. Your choice of chicken or sausage McMuffin or McGrittles with a hash brown and a small iced coffee for $5.5 plus tax. Available until 11 a.m. at participating McDonald's restaurants. Price excludes flavored iced coffee and delivery. My Dallas Mavericks take on the Minnesota Timberwolves, the Indiana The Pacers take on the Boston Celtics in the Western and Eastern Conference finals of the NBA playoffs. It is the Will Kane Show, Kane on Sports, Friday edition. Normally streaming live at Fox News.com, the Fox News YouTube channel, and the Fox News Facebook page.

Make sure you subscribe on Apple or on Spotify. You'll always get the newest episodes of The Will Kane Show, including our Friday edition, Kane on Sports. Have you ever wondered, you know, how? does Wilts Chamberlain not have any kids in the NBA? With the number of times he's had extramarital affairs by his own admission and being seven feet tall just by probability he ought to have some kids or grandkids in the NBA. Well we do address that plus who wins the West, who wins the East with Sports Illustrated Chris Mannix and ranking the top eight players left in the NBA playoffs. Here is Sports Illustrated.

It's Chris Mannix. This is Jason Chaffetz from the Jason in the House podcast. Join me every Monday to dive deeper into the latest political headlines and chat with remarkable guests. Listen and follow now at Fox Newspodcast.com or wherever you download podcasts. Hey, I'm Trey Gowdy host of the Trey Gowdy podcast. I hope you will join me every Tuesday and Thursday as we navigate life together and hopefully find ourselves a little bit better on the other side.

Listen and follow now at Follettie. This is Jimmy Phala, inviting you to join me for Fox Across America, where we'll discuss every single one of the Democrats' dumb ideas. Just kidding. It's only a three-hour show. Listen live at noon Eastern or get the podcast at Fox Across America.com. All right, I'm joined now by Sports Illustrated senior writer Chris Mannix here on the Will Cain show. He covers not just NBA, but he covers boxing as well. Good to see again, Chris. This is, it's a personally exciting. time for me because I'm a homer and I'm rooting for my Dallas Mavericks. But this is a weird, this is a weird NBA playoffs, Chris. There's something's changing in the NBA. Like we could go through all the different ways is changing. But the easiest one to point to is I think this

would be the sixth year in a row, right, where we don't have a repeat champion. Yeah. Yeah, it would be six in a row. And look, this is all the fruits of what's been kind of a decade-long mission by Adam Silver to establish the closest thing they can get to parody. I mean, Adam Silver, for a long time, has been an admirer of the NFL model where, you know, half a dozen or more teams enter the playoffs with legitimate chance to win a championship. You can't duplicate the NFL because they're playing one game series each round and the NBA's best of seven.

But, you know, if you can go into a postseason where, you know, the. champion isn't anointed prior to in the way that, you know, the Miami Heat kind of were during their big three era, the way that Golden State was during its Kevin Durant years. The NBA sees great value in that. And that I think is what we've seen over these last six years, where there has been just a shift where the talent has spread out and, you know, teams enter the, like the playoffs begin with, you know, probably seven or eight teams that went to this postseason thinking, hey, we've got enough to win a championship.

So this was the result of the collective bargain agreement that was signed in, I believe, 2016 that changed some of the rules. And the collective bargain agreement that was signed more recently that established the second apron and all these tax penalties that curbs some of the free spending in the NBA. So this isn't a fluke. This was a planned process that the NBA has worked diligently on. So is the era of? of dynasties in the NBA over?

You know, you never say never. Look, Denver was, you know, one bad half away but advanced at the conference finals. And if they did, they would have been favorites to win the whole thing. So, and the Nuggets next year, they'll probably bring back the core of that team and some of the younger players on their roster that's cheap and that they can afford will probably get a little bit better.

So the Nuggets probably stand as the most likely potential dynasty. And, look, Boston's in the mix as well with two stars that are in their mid-20s, you know, a whole bunch of young guys in their prime, so you can't rule that out. But look, you know, Denver, this off-season, for example, is going to have to make a decision on Contavius called Will Pope, who has been one of their key role players over the last couple of years.

They're probably not going to be able to afford him, much the same way they couldn't afford Bruce Brown after last season. Jeff Green left after last season. If you're not drafting guys that can step in and play right away, you are going to diminish your depth. And look, we've seen in these playoffs, the margin of victory is not that big. So I'm not ready to say that dynasties are completely dead, but it is harder to build one now than it ever has been before.

So the decline of the dynasty era, and you said this is what Adam Silver has wanted. You know, for years I've said one of the things that makes the NBA less compelling to me is its predictability. through the existence of dynasties and seven-game series, it's almost always that the favored team, the better team wins. So I find this more entertaining. I mean, it's hard for me to separate the fact that my favorite team is in the final four, but I find it more entertaining. But I do wonder if Adam Silver has made the right decision for his league

because I feel that way, but I don't think my sentiment reflects the sentiment of the casual fan. I mean, this is kind of something that Colin Coward has talked about on a lot of occasions. You can root for Cinderella's, but ultimately you want Duke versus North Carolina in the finals of the NCAA tournament. And the ratings reflect that. I would imagine, you know, whatever we end up with, New York, I mean, Boston, Dallas, Minnesota, Indiana, whatever we end up with, the ratings are not going to be what they were in the middle of the Golden State Warriors Dynasty. So I just kind of wonder if Silver's done something that is good for the casual fan and then by extension, good for his league in terms of attention. Yeah, I think you can look at the final four here and envision two different matchups

and two different levels of interest. I mean, Boston versus Dallas, I think, would have a pretty significant amount of interest. Boston's a big market team. They're the Celtics looking for the 18th championship. And look, Kyrie Irving coming back to Boston is a storyline that sells itself. I mean, the animosity between Boston and Kyrie Irving has been well documented. I think that would make that that series have a lot of spice to the more casual fans. On the flip side, Minnesota, Indiana, I mean, good luck selling that beyond like the Midwest.

It's just difficult to draw the casual fan in with that particular type of matchup, especially when, while, look, we all agree Anthony Edwards is probably the next big thing in the NBA and Tyrese Halliburton is a great player. they're not quite yet on that mainstream level that the casual fan can can kind of grab onto and say, I'm going to watch this series because of that. But look, ratings are useful to the NBA because it helps them sell their product, right? Like it helps them get the next TV deal. Well, the NBA right now is finalizing a TV deal that's probably going to generate $7 billion per season.

They're going to spread it out over multiple platforms. The totality of the deal is probably going to be something in the neighborhood of $77 to $80 billion over the lifetime of a decade-long deal. Whatever the ratings may be, they're not having an impact on the NBA's bottom line. They're still having wild success at selling their product. So even though they're definitely, I agree, is a dip when the Lakers and Celtics are playing versus when the Timberwolves and Pacers might be playing. If the money's still rolling in, I don't think the NBA cares all that much. By the way, is that deal done? Is T&T out? Is the, have we just watched the death of inside the NBA? Like, no more Barclay shack and Ernie and Kenny? Well, first, it depends on who

you ask. And, you know, I've talked to a lot of people about this as, I mean, this is the most almost overcovered story that I can remember it a while. Like, everybody's kind of writing about this and the potential death of inside the NBA. It is most, likely, I think, at this point, that the three television partners are ESPN, NBC, and Amazon. That's the way it's trending right now. Nobody's exactly sure of Turner has matching rights and what that might look like with when there's, with his pen to paper on a deal. But I think that's the most likely scenario at the moment.

I'm also not ready to put the nail in the coffin of inside the NBA. I mean, look, when Amazon got the NFL, what was like the first thing they did? They scooped up kind of the things that NBC did. They scooped up kind of their producers and their tech people and even some of their talent to do, you know, what they do. I would, I would not be surprised, Will, to see Amazon if they get the NBA package, it looks like they're going to get to just buy out, you know, the inside the NBA crew, not just the talent, but like the production staff, all the people that make that show great and bring it all the way over to Amazon and use it for whatever day of the week that they have. So the end of inside the NBA on Turner seems like it's coming. don't think we've seen the end of that crew let's hope not i mean it is such a good show and i know it's like oh you know the rolling stones are a great band it's like not a hot take it just is what it is

though it's just so good you know like there and it's it's it's impossible to recreate like that kind of chemistry i've been in television long enough it's just impossible even though barclay is a star i think wherever he goes the four of them together is what is truly magical and you make a good point about the behind the scenes guys like i've watched that show thinking them throwing up the video you know calling out one of the guys after somebody makes fun of somebody and that takes a special level of production that's in on the chemistry and you happen upon that you don't create it in a boardroom look and bar look i saw the other night barclay had like pasta dropped on his head like they do so many great gimmicks you know shack getting knocked into a christmas tree every year i mean

there's so much there's so much that makes that show uh really fun And look, it's been well documented. Like, those guys, for the most part, are not part of the production of this. They didn't even go to production meetings. Like, TNT does not want them to kind of prepare for anything. They like them way better off the cuff, and they're way more entertaining. So even though the purists might be like, oh, God, what's Barclay talking about? I doesn't know the name of this guy saying he's never been to Minnesota in 20 years.

Who cares? Like, the average fan loves what they bring to the table. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. it's it's probably the best show on television regardless of um not just format but content like politics sports news whatever it's just like the best um okay really quick back to this parody thing so the era of dynasty dies and the way i hear you describing it is in part because the era of big free agency shifts have died i saw an article on ESPN about the way these four conference finalists have been built and none of them were really built through

free agency. They weren't all built the same, some off draft picks, almost all pretty active in the trade market. So is that what, when you describe, you know, you said the collective bargaining agreement and all that, I mean, the dynasties were built on KD going to Golden State, LeBron going to Miami, these big free agency shifts. And so I'm just curious mechanically, giving home teams a better ability to retain their superstars. Is that like the thing that was done to create this parody. So that was one of the things that was done, you know, 10 years ago where they, you know, give home teams, you know, that extra year on that contract, more money they could offer, making these guys extension eligible a bit early so they can get that burden in the hand in case

they fear injury. The player response, though, in the last few years has been, all right, well, I'm going to sign the contract and then I'm going to ask out immediately. And I'm going to get my way and get where I'm going to go no matter what. I mean, Kevin Durant is a great example. Kevin Durant signed a four-year extension with Brooklyn a couple of years ago and never played one minute on that extension, was traded with Asper Trade and was traded to Phoenix before that extension even kicked in. So the NBA had that to contend with them.

One of the things that they did with this new collective bargaining agreement is that they have made it exceedingly difficult for these big market teams that spend money to a certain level to make. make these kind of deals. Like if you go into the second tax apron where a lot of these free spending teams currently are, you can't do sign and trade type of deals. You can't do deals that aren't an exact match when it comes to salaries. You can't send out a certain number of draft picks. Like they have, they've done a really nice job of installing some mechanisms, machinations to make it really difficult for, you know, a team that might be in a big market,

and just go out and acquire a guy that ultimately wants to be there. It's not going to stop these guys from looking for trades when they have long-term contracts or really even getting what they want. But it does make it a lot more difficult for a guy to sign a deal and say, you know what, I don't want to be here anymore. Trade me to this city. That city and that team might not have the ability to make that deal. All right.

We'll get Chris Mannix to break down who he thinks is going to win the conference finals a little bit later here in this. show. But this is the other thing that's changed in the NBA, not just the parody, but people have pointed out, and I don't know the years on this, Chris, you may off the top of your head, but we're talking decades since the Western Eastern Conference finals haven't featured either the reigning MVP or a former MVP. There are no NBA MVP in the final four teams. And that's, again, the image and the stereotype of the league is so superstar driven. And so to not have that. I think also, now look, like he said, Anthony Edwards could be on his way to that level.

Luca Donchich got second in MVP voting, but it's still a marker here where something has changed in the NBA. Yeah, I mean, again, it comes down to the distribution of talent. Like, one guy, you know, as good as he is, and Yolkich is a great example. He played phenomenal in that game seven, but outside of Jamal Murray, didn't get a lot of help against Minnesota. He was beaten by a team that was a lot deeper and had a lot more, you know, wealth of talent to deal with. I mean, Carl Towns played great in that game. You had, you know, Mike Conley, when he came back, he was playing great in that game. Excuse me.

I think the depth of talent has, sorry, give me a second. He's dying. Chris Mannix is dying. I got back from the gym like an hour ago. What were those sneezes or coughs? I got back from the gym a while. I haven't had enough water in my system at this point. Sorry, I'll pick up there.

Yeah, I just think that's the distribution of talent in the NBA. I mean, Minnesota is a great example. Anthony Edwards is the star of that team. Carl Anthony Towns is right there with him. But, I mean, look at what they have, the depth they have. Jaden McDaniels, elite defensive player. Mike Conley, one of the best winners in the NBA over the last 10 years. I mean, that team was dead in the water in that series before Mike Connolly came back in game six.

So it's not just about that kind of one star can carry you or even two stars can carry you in the way it has been in years past. If you're a team with great depth, then look, Indiana, I think is a good example of it. Indiana, Halliburton is a legit star. But one of the reasons the Pacers are in the conference finals right now is that they go nine, sometimes 10 guys deep. One of the most valuable guys for them has been T.J. McConnell. So, you know, the shift in part has been, yeah, you need the star. No question. You need the superstar to win a championship.

But beyond that, you need to add, and you need to have really great role players if you'd have any chance to have success. All right. So I thought about different ways to do this with the idea that we've, I don't know that we've lost the biggest superstars. We lost Yokic, but the whole MVP thing, I thought, all right, who's, left, and I went ahead and ranked them, and so why don't I do this? I'll give you my ranking of superstars left. You tell me where you agree or disagree, and we'll count it down. Okay, so who's, and I did the top eight. I'm sure I left somebody out. But I'll give you my top eight superstars left in the NBA conference finals, and you tell me if I've got him the right order or who I left

out. All right, so at number eight, Mannix, I have Pascal Seacum. Yeah, so I mean, I think Seacum's great he's got a championship he's with the raptors he's all around stud player and he as you'll see puts it with two of the top players here left on the pacer's and that's not even getting at the role players you have and i'm going to do like three at a time so you can kind of see where i am at number seven i have carl anthony towns who stepped up big there at the end of that series in game seven with the nuggets i'm really concerned as a mavericks fan he's like one of the players i'm probably most concerned about in this coming matchup and then At number six, I have the Celtics Jalen Brown.

And I didn't know about Jalen over Kat, but in the end, I mean, in the end, I think that Jalen Brown is probably a more reliable number two than Kat has proven to be as a reliable number two to Anthony Edwards. That is six through eight, Chris. Yeah, I agree with the Brown Cat, you know, six and seven. I think you could flip them easily and you couldn't have much of an argument. I'd probably bump Siakum out of eight because I actually think Drew Holiday belongs in that spot. I mean, Drew Holiday, he has been for the last like 10 years, arguably the best defensive player in the NBA. Whenever I have conversations with swing men and back court players about who's the toughest guy to go up against defensively, Drew Holiday's name comes up every single. goal time and you see him in the playoffs like he'll defend yonis in a postseason game he'll defend

a center in a postseason game a miles turner type uh he's just everywhere and watching the game game one against indiana i mean he went off in that game he had a tremendous offensive game and defensive game so i would probably put holiday in that slot over siakum that's that's a really good point drew he's easy to forget because it is defense but defense is so important um by the way would you take Seacom over Miles Turner, or would you put Miles Turner over Seacom? That's a good one. I'd probably take Seaccom over Turner because we've seen Seaccom do it at the highest level. You know, the Raptors in 2019 do not win that championship unless Seacom is part of the team. And, you know, the numbers, if you look at them after the trade for

Seacom when he got there in January, their defensive numbers went up considerably. And that is not a very good defensive team. So not only is he a very good offensive player, and we saw that in game one, but I think defensively brings a different skill set to the table. All right, here's five and four. Okay, at five, Kyrie Irving, Dallas Mavs, I do not think we've yet even seen the heroics that he might. If Dallas wins over Minnesota, it will be because Kyrie becomes, you know, the Kyrie we've seen in the past. It's hard to place Kyrie higher because he's the number two on his own team. But I think, I hope we have something amazing coming from Kyrie very soon.

And at number four, Tyree's Halliburton Pacers. Yeah, I agree with that one too. You know, I had, no, Kyrie has had such a complicated last few years. I mean, he has to own what he did in Cleveland, Boston, and Brooklyn, right? Like he forced his way out of three championship level situations. And in doing it, China either blew up or attempted to blow up the franchises that he was on. But since he's been in Dallas, and I talk to coaches down there all the time, he has been nothing but a great locker room leader.

You see some of the press conference he has with Luca Donchich. Like they clearly, you know, have chemistry. They clearly get along as teammates. And I had one coach that was, you know, texting me during. Game 7 of the Oklahoma City series. And he said, are you watching Kyrie Irving? Like, I'm like, yeah, he's doing me, making shots. You know, he's being Kyrie.

He's like, no, no, no. Watch how he's defending Shea Gildes Alexander. Watch how he's defending whoever is in front of him. Like, Kyrie's never going to be a lockdown defender. But the effort he has shown this year, and especially in these playoffs on the defensive end, just kind of become an average defensive player. It's been really good. And if Kyrie's playing average defense, he's so good offensively and so masterful, you know,

with the dribble, that you, you can't find many guys better than that. And really quick, on Kyrie, I would say, I didn't like, if I'm being real, I didn't like Kyrie, and I was on ESPN, I've been a lot of places crushing Kyrie for the way he was in those three locations, like you said. But not only has he been, like, different in Dallas, I would argue he's been a net positive. Like, he's made their culture, their chemistry, their franchise better beyond his basketball ability. Like the human being that he's been in Dallas has been a huge net plus. And I saw Kevin Garnett saying this. He said, look at Kyrie. He reminds me of Kobe right now. Just the way

he's conducting himself, his body language, everything about him. He was on the Stephen A. Smith show, I think. Everything about him right now reads Kobe Bryant. Well, he's always, you know, kind of had that Kobe Bryant killer instinct. That's always been part of Kyrie Irving's makeup. It's just that he couldn't get out of his own way for so many years. Like he was so unsettled being the second fiddle to LeBron James. He couldn't, you know, as a veteran in that Boston locker room, he couldn't be the guy to bridge the gap between himself, but Gordon Hayward and the young players, Tatum and Brown, that were there.

He couldn't make that work. And it led to some acrimony in that locker room. And he signs with Brooklyn. And look, the pandemic had a lot to do with Kyrie's problems in Brooklyn. And the fact that New York City was, you know, effectively on its own with, you know, you can't play at Barclay Senator unless you're vaccinated, you know, that had a lot to do with Kyrie's problems there. But he did, you know, that team, I think was like 19 and 1 or something like that before

the Kyrie Irving trade. So they were rolling, you know, after the pandemic. And they looked like a championship level team. And he wanted out there. So he has to be accountable for all that. But he just, he is now combining, kind of. of that leadership that we haven't seen from him in the past with the talent we always have. I mean, he made one of the great shots in finals history when he nailed that shot against

Golden State in what, 2016. I mean, he's been an elite playmaker, shot maker for his entire career. When he's blending these two things together, leadership and talent, you're not going to find many players in the NBA better than him. So I had Halliburton at four. So now I'll give you the more controversial top three. So Halliburton is behind these three guys in my mind. And I mean, I say controversial. I don't know. There's a, there's debate now, I think, among these three. For me, it would go in this order at three Jason Tatum, Celtics, at two Anthony Edwards, wolves, and the best player left in the playoffs. Although I will admit he hasn't played like it necessarily this playoffs. You haven't seen the best version of himself. Well,

not it's his knee or whatever it is. But the best player left is Luca Don. Yeah, I would agree with Luke at number one. No question. I mean, second on the MVP voting in. And there's nobody, there's nobody better offensively, I think, than Luke. I mean, not just with his scoring ability. I mean, he can do it from three different levels. But I think his playmaking is unreal. Like, you watch him and he attracts so much defensive attention. And when he does, he just always makes the right play. Like he's, he's elite offensively. And like Kyrie, I think you're seeing more effort from Luca on the defensive end. And again, he's never going to be. Yeah, way better defensively. But he's working. He's using his size and he's working hard on that end of the floor. The debate is always going to be, you know, Tatum and Edwards. And look, I'm based in Boston and this debate rages on like talk radio even now all the time. Like, who would you take Edwards or Tatum? I do think Tatum gets kind of unfairly cooked in the national media.

I think there's a perception that he's not the same kind of killer that some of these other players that are on his level. are other top 10 players in the NBA are. I think it's a little bit unfair. I mean, part because look, Tatum didn't have to display much of that during the regular season because the Celtics had one of the historically great point differentials. I mean, they were a 60 plus win team who won games by like 12, 13 points per game every single night. So we didn't have to have the same kind of clutch type performance. I mean, the Celtics, they stopped playing meaningful games like around Ash Wednesday. Like they were just, and they were just rolling along, you know, during the regular season. So Tatum never had to do.

some of the things that Luca had to do, that Anthony Edwards had to do, that Nicole Yokic had to do in the Western Conference. But when it comes down to it, I mean, he makes shots. Look at game one of that Indiana series. Like he struggled in the fourth quarter. He struggled in the first couple of minutes of overtime. But like a lot of superstars were able to do, he's able to shake it off, move on to the next. And he made huge plays for that team down the stretch. The end one against T. J. McConnell gave the Celtics a lead with a minute to go. the three-pointer will ice that game away. So I'm always going to lean a little bit more towards Tatum and the Tatum Edwards debate right now because I think he's, look, he's a bigger

player. He's, I think, got more of a bag offensively. And, you know, defensively, I think it's kind of a wash there. So I put Tatum, I put Tatum at two and Edwards at three right now. You just, nothing you said is wrong. And we're debating two versus three. So we're not talking about like two versus 10 here. I guess I'm just more afraid of Anthony Edwards. And Tatum can take over a game. There's no doubt about that. But I mean, I'm telling you going into this series, like Anthony Edwards,

and there's a lot of hype if we're being real about Anthony Edwards right now. There's a lot of hype, but I'm afraid of Anthony Edwards. Like, I do wonder, can he totally take over not just a game, but this series. He's doing stuff now that is making you believe. And if I'm if I'm prognosticating what the MVP, ballot is going to look like in a year. Now, Anthony Edwards is not in the top six. Tatum was sixth and Brunson was fifth. I feel reasonably confident that another healthy Anthony Edwards season is going to put him in the top five. Like he is going to take that next step

next year. And I think we have to remember like this is Anthony Edwards first go round at a deep playoff run. Jason Tatum has done this, you know, a few times in the past. Like you go back to the 2022 conference semifinals against Milwaukee. Tatum had 46 in an elimination game. Took a over that game against the Bucks. Game seven of the conference finals against, you know, Joel M. Bid in Philadelphia, Tatum dropped 50 in that game. So he has the same ability to strike that kind of fear in your opponents. I think in a way, and it's not a bad thing,

but in a way we're kind of prisoners of the moment with Anthony Edwards, where we're seeing this guy take off and he deserves every word of the praise that's being lavished on him. But I also think we're forgetting to a degree kind of what Tatum has done over the last couple of years as the Celtics have, you know, established themselves as an Eastern Conference power. Has all your reporting and talking to executives and your deep dive into analytics answered the question of whether or not he is Michael Jordan's son?

I mean, the cops are are out there, man. Look, I mean, Michael Jordan made his bones in the finals, right? That's the rumor. Michael Jordan made his bones in the finals there, man. They look alike that he's literally his son. I guess you could, you could, I guess you could make that, that cop there. But I, I, I love Edwards. I just need to see him do it for like three or four years.

Like, to me, he's almost Michael early in his career. I mean, people kind of, you know, deify Mike for everything he did in the 1990. You forget, he got wiped out in the first round, like multiple times in the 80s before Scottie came along, before Phil Jackson got his seat on the bench. To me, he's kind of Michael early in his career. Now, let's see if he can become Michael in the second half of his career. By the way, this conspiracy that Anthony Edwards is Michael Jordan's son, you know, my producers told me this.

I didn't know this one exist. Did you know there's one that Otto Porter is Wilk Chamberlain's? Would it be his son? God, it's got to be his grandson. It's going to be his son. Wilk got around. I mean, I mean. We know Wilts got around, and Will's seven feet tall.

So I ask you to play the probabilities. How does Will Chamberlain not have a son or grandson that's played in the NBA? Like, his offspring is going to be. six, I mean, north of six, five, most of, most of Willett Chamberlain's offspring, I don't know who they are, but he's got kids and he's self-proclaimed, what does he say, 20,000 times he said sex? I can't remember what the number is. But, um, but I mean, I would think the odds of probability is Wilts put some offspring into the NBA. You know, it's a good point because, you know, we, I mean, offspring as NBA players is not rare. I mean, Glenn Robinson's kid played in the

NBA, Gary Payton's kid played in the NBA. Right now, look, Manu Bulls kid right now. It's a sport of rare physical attributes. Yeah, I mean, it's a sport of rare physical attributes. The Otto Porter one's interesting. Otto does kind of look like, Wilf. That's, that's reasonable. Maybe a deep dive needs to be taken on that.

All right, let's get your prediction on these conference finals. Now, by the time that this publishes on Friday, we will have two entries into the Pacers and Celtics series. won into the wolves and MAVs. I mean, that's a tough loss. It's hard to make this prediction without having seen one game for both of us. And that loss by the Pacers to the Celtics, it's a gut punch because they 100% should have won that game, 100%. And I almost wonder how do you recover from that. I don't like to have one in your hand and to let it slip out. I don't know, it's got to play on your psyche. But we'll start with that series. Pacer's looked up for it.

I mean, they looked up for the series. It just, how does that loss affect them? Yeah. Look, I don't think the Pacers, I think the Pacers are, the Celtics are not a good matchup for the Pacers. You know, before going into this series, you know, Tyrese Halliburton had one great game against the Celtics. He had three other games that were kind of average.

He had 26 points in one game. Then he had 12. He averaged 12 over the other three that he played. The Celtics, because of Drew Holiday, because of Derek White, because of Jalen Brown. They're almost uniquely positioned to defend, to defend Tyrese Hallibird. I think for the Pacers to win, they're going to have to get extraordinary performances from Miles Turner, who played well in game one in their bench, which was phenomenal in game one. And even then, I just, I just don't see it. I think Chris S. Porzingis is going to come back at some point during the

series, whether it's game four or game five. And once he comes back, that bench, which is a problem for Boston, that gets significantly better. If you could move Al Horford, you know, onto that second unit. So I just think it's a bad matchup for Indiana. The Celtics, I think we'll lose a game, but I think the Celtics in five is a reasonable prediction. In five? Yeah. What would you, okay, but just a little bit of sliding doors here. Pacers call a timeout at the end of regulation. They draw up an inbound play. They win the game. Would you be sounding a lot different today? I probably would take the Celtics in six, honestly. Like I'd add an extra game.

onto the series. I thought that was the game Indiana had its best chance to win. I mean, they, look, they're going to get tired at some point in this series because of all they've done in the last couple of rounds. But going into a game like that, where they were sharp coming off a game seven against New York, which saw some historic shooting from everybody on that Pacer's roster, where the Celtics, I mean, they've been off for five days. You know, they've been kind of kicking back. And they've had back-to-back five-game series. So there was certainly some, some rust there, or going to be some rust there with the Celtics. I don't think you're going to get that rust, you know, the rest of this series.

So, yeah, I would have said, you know, six-game series, but I still would have taken the Celtics. And since they won, I'm going to take them to win in five. All right, wolves, maves, I'm doing my best to be objective, right? And here's the objective truth. I think the wolves should be favored. I think they're, I don't know, it's hard to say they're more well-rounded because the maves are actually really well-rounded right now to remain a contender for years to come. But I just think the match-up, I actually think, Chris, Dallas has a love-hate relationship with Maxi Kleba. But I think they need him.

Because they're going to have to draw Kat and Gobert out, right? And Kleba can shoot the three. I think he could be an important player in the series because you can't count on PJ Washington to continue to shoot 60% from three. It's just not going to continue. And if that doesn't continue, somebody, again, I think Derek Jones Jr. has been punching above his weight as well. So, you know, if you can control, and I say somewhat, Kyrie and Luca, who steps up, it's absolutely necessary for Dallas. That's the challenge, isn't it? You know, I give the Mavericks a lot of credit for kind of going all in before the trade deadline.

I remember texting somebody right after the deadline, kind of like, what are you doing? like you gave up a first round pick for p j washington he gave a first round pick for daniel gafford and the the responses i got were did we get better i'm like yeah like that's all that matters because we're in it for this season we're trying to make sure luca knows that every year he's wearing a mavericks uniform we're going to go for it um and look they were right i mean i don't think dallas is here right now in the conference finals unless they have daniel gafford forming kind of that two-headed center with Derek lively, and certainly not unless they have PJ Washington, who has added a defensive presence at a level of toughness that they were lacking before those

deals. So I give them credit for that. I think the problem they're going to run into in this series is just like Boston is uniquely equipped to defend a guard-heavy team like Indiana. Minnesota is equipped to defend the wings that Dallas had. I mean, Minnesota, I mean, that trio of Jaden McDaniels, Anthony Edwards, and Nikiel Alexander Walker, I mean, they're elite. Like, you saw what they did to Denver last round. They will hound you for 48 minutes, full court. And to your point, like, if you are going to, you know, not take away the offense of Kyrie and Luca,

because you're never going to do that, but if you're going to make them inefficient, somebody else is going to have to step up and make plays. I'm not sure who that is on this Dallas roster. I mean, is Washington going to play and shoot at the level we saw him shoot in the last round? I mean, is Tim Hardaway Jr. going to reemerge as a quality role player on that team? Like, I don't know who you can rely on to kind of fill the gap that's going to be there when the defense of Minnesota kind of turns it up.

So I like Minnesota in that series. I think it's tough, but I think Minnesota in six would probably be my official prediction. In six? How does the big man game and matchup work out? I mean, Dallas does have Gafford and lively. They're not on the court together at the same time. But Minnesota's got Reed and Kat and Gobert. I think we know it's going to be, I think it's Jade McDaniels on Luca,

and it's going to be Anthony Edwards on Kyrie. But, I mean, like you said, I don't think McDaniels shuts down Luca. He still gets into the paint. He still does what he does, right? But I'll be real curious what the big man matchup means in this series. Because Lively has been an Angaffer, if that matter, have been difference makers for Dallas. And we know how good the Minnesota guys are. Yeah, I think somehow Dallas is going to have to find a way to play big against Minnesota.

Because Minnesota is not going to play small. I mean, you know, all the questions that were out there coming into these playoffs about can Rudy and Kat coexist? Can you play a too big lineup with Rudy out there as one of them? They've been answered and then some. I mean, Rudy Gobert, the beating he takes from some corners of NBA analysis, whether it's from Draymond Green or some of the guys on TNT, I just don't get it.

I mean, all of them need to take an L after game seven of that conference semifinals because Rudy in the fourth quarter having, what, eight points, five rebounds, He was four or five from the free throw line in that fourth quarter. He was an impact player down the stretch. And they figured out a way to play with two of the Rudy Carl Nas trio out there on the floor. And that's a physical group to match up with. That's a team that's going to win the battle of the boards most nights. If you're getting killed on the glass, you've got to find some way to kind of compensate for it.

So I think that's going to be, you know, big for Dallas. They play both centers, you know, out there at a time, try to match up with these guys. they try to play a little bit faster. That's not really their game. Well, that's where Cleba comes back. You can put Cleba. Yeah. That's why.

You could put Cleba with Lively. You could put. You could. You could play. Yeah. No, you could play those guys. And I still don't know. I mean, look, I love Maxie Kleber.

I think he's kind of that versatile defensive piece you need in a front court. He's going to have to make threes in a series like that because you've got to find a way to drag one or both of those big men. away from the bass because it's a conundrum this is why i just think that minnesota a series like this has more tools in the toolbox like they can go you know a variety of different ways uh to beat you they can outscore you at times like and they can lock you down defensively as they showed all during the regular season so it's just going to be a really tough matchup for dallas in the series i agree i actually agree and so it's going to come down to can kairi and luca be heroes bigger heroes than anthony edwards um all right so you've got a wolf celtics finals chris

Sports Illustrated. All right, man, I appreciate you breaking down these games for us as we head in these series for us as we head into the Western Eastern Conference Finals. Thanks, Chris. You got it, Will. There you go. I hope you enjoyed that conversation. I appreciate Chris jumping on the Will Kane Show. Check him out. He's the senior writer at Sports Illustrated. All right, enjoy the NBA playoffs. That's going to do it for me today. I will see you again next time. Following Fox's initial donation to the Kerr County Flood Relief Fund, our generous viewers have answered the call to action across all Fox platforms and have helped raise $7 million.

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