Will Cain Country - Dan Dakich: Listen To What Harrison Butker Actually Said

Episode Date: May 17, 2024

On this edition of The Will Cain Show’s Friday sports episode, Will sits down with former Indiana Basketball player and The Host of OutKick’s ‘Don’t @ Me', Dan Dakich to discuss Harrison Butker's controversial comments during a commencement speech. Plus, Dan gives his coaches' analysis on the NBA Playoffs and Caitlin Clark's WNBA debut. Tell Will what you thought about this podcast by emailing [e-mail]   Subscribe to The Will Cain Show on YouTube here: Watch The Will Cain Show!   Follow Will on Twitter: @WillCain Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Man, I'm just fascinated by this Harrison Butker story. The Canton City Chief's kicker that said it's an honorable and valuable and perhaps no more fulfilling life that you could imagine as a woman than to be a wife and a mother. It's caused so much outrage from the view to the New York Times. and it's something that continues to drive the news cycle as it has this past week on the Will Kane show. So let's explore that with the host of Don't At Me at Outkick.com, Dan Dockage. It's The Will Kane Show, which streams live every Monday through Thursday at Fox News.com, at Fox News YouTube, on the Fox News Facebook page, and always on demand by subscribing at YouTube, or on Apple or on Spotify.

You can listen to every episode of the Will Can Show, including the Friday, can on sports sports exclusive episode of the will cane show i wanted to get into this harrison butker story but after a week spent on two things country music and sports i went to the acms this week i went to an acm pre-party featuring parker mccollum big time and going to the stars game where they lost to the avalanche last Wednesday. I've been dialed in, including to the Dallas Maverick. So I wanted to talk about the NBA playoffs as well, the ebbs and flows, the momentum, the swings in a game, and a swings in a series, and when something is over,

and when you can trust a lead, I wanted to get into the NBA playoffs. Plus, Washington Commander's head coach Dan Quinn with a throwback to a Redskins emblem. and Caitlin Clark, all now with Dan Dockage. It is time to take the quiz. It's five questions in less than five minutes. We ask people on the streets of New York City to play along. Let's see how you do. Take the quiz every day at thequiz.com.

Then come back here to see how you did. Thank you for taking the quiz. This is Jimmy Phala, inviting you to join me for Fox Across America, where we'll discuss every single one of the Democrats' dumb ideas. Just kidding. It's only a three-hour show. Listen live at noon Eastern or get the podcast. at Fox Across America.com.

I'm Janice Dean. Join me every Sunday as I focus on stories of hope and people who are truly rays of sunshine in their community and across the world. Listen and follow now at Fox Newspodcast.com. I'm joined now, I think, by the host of Don't At Me on Outkick.com. Dan Dockich is virtually. on the Will Kane show. Dan? Well, I look like a mass murderer covering my face because somehow some background,

or I look like I'm on Scooby-Doo or something, Will. What's going on here? For anyone listening to the Canaan Sports, Friday edition of the Will Kane Show Sports Exclusive, I am joined somewhat by Dan Dockich of Outkick right now, who has had about 20 minutes worth of trouble on his Zoom connection and his virtual background. We have decided to just launch the show now with Dan. There is nothing virtual about

his background, but his background is now his silhouette. So I am talking to the silhouette of a basketball court right now, which might be the inner soul of Dan Dockage. That might be. I don't know. It comes and it goes, Will. I have no idea what the hell we're doing. I got a basketball court for a face. I got outkick for a necklace. And I've never looked better if you want to know the truth. I just look glorious. It comes and it goes. It's been something many people have told me about you. There's a lot of things about Dan Dockich that just come and go. Professionally and personally. So it's fitting having you here kind of quasi on the Will Cain show.

All right, Docich, man, let's do this. I don't care. I don't care if you look like a basketball court. I don't care. I think it's funny. So we're just going to lean in as your face comes in and out of the show. today here on the Will Cates Show. Let's talk NBA playoffs for a minute. I just want to. I'm into it, Dan. I'm staying up late. I'm watching the Mavs.

You've got to be watching basketball. You're a basketball guy. I want to ask you about the Mavs series for a second. The Mavs just went up 3-2 on the Thunder, the number one-seated Thunder. And it was something interesting in the post-game show is Draymond, Kenny, and Charles Barker, they're all sitting around. And Draymond said this, Dan, he said, it's over. The Mavs are going to win this series. He said, in a playoff series, there's a moment where one team figures out the other team.

Like, you've experimented, you've changed lineups over a seven game series, you've tried different things, you understand how a team operates, and at some point you've figured them out. Like, there's no more surprises to throw. I'm curious about what you think about that when it applies to the Mavericks, but in general, just kind of in playoff basketball. Is there a point where it's like, all right, this thing's pretty figured out? well i think after game two it's no longer about scouting i don't think it's any i think it's about

individuals and i've always said this this is just my experience with nba guys is like look got to have guys that can go make plays if you don't have guys that can go make plays it's really difficult systems work game one game two and then luka takes over or brunson takes over or for us we're hoping haliburton takes over and it's not just that he's scoring 30 or whatever it's he's creating for others and it's a problem it's a big problem for any team now i don't necessarily think that the dallas series is over here's a deal when i talk about why what happened i want to tell talk about why people always say well you know what Oklahoma city's a young team okay what does that mean well i tell you what it means it means it's hard for a young team

to bounce back from a big win now i know you play 82 games 100 games whatever they're at but it just is, man. Young teams seem to have a problem. We saw it here in Indianapolis. Indianapolis wins two in a row, route the Knicks at home. Knicks are banged up. They go to Madison Square Garden and they get routed. And we've seen that all year with the Pacers.

They can't put back-to-back things together. They're a young team. I don't think it's, excuse me, I don't think it's over. I understand what Draymond is saying. I think there's a lot of talent on OKC. I do think this, I do think if Donchick plays the way that Donchick played last night, it's going to be over, but that's just stars being stars. But I'm fascinated by the NBA playoffs, big time fascinating.

I'm fascinated by Donchick. He's been bad. He's been good. I'm fascinated by Irving. He's scored under 10. He's a terrific playoff player. Jalen Brunson somehow, some way, at least in our world. You know, he thinks he's Michael Freakin' Jordan.

and Shailin Frickin Brunson, but we're giving up 40 every night. It's making me crazy. All right. So I want to ask you about two things. Again, my prism is largely going to be through the Oklahoma City Dallas series, but it's basketball in general. So to your point, Dan, one of the things the Mavs are being praised for right now is resiliency, meaning they don't go back-to-back losses in the playoffs. They just come back. But I don't believe what Draymond had to say, or I don't want to believe it, even though I'm a fan, because I never feel secure as a fan in basketball. I never feel secure. Like, the Mavs were up nine last night with about a minute and a half left, and I was watching with my sons, I was like, no, no, no, they're like, it's over. I'm like, no, no, no, it's not over. It's not over yet.

Because I believe in momentum, Dan, like, I think it's a real thing. It's a thing in life. It's a thing in sports. But so, in the course of a game. game. I don't feel good, Dan, with a 20-point lead. I don't feel good with a 25-point lead. I feel good, but I never feel like this game is won. You know, like there's swings that are crazy that's impossible to figure out in the course of a game. Who's going to win this game? And then I imagine that applies to a series as well to some extent. It's just like basketball is hard to do

what Draymond did. To look at any situation and go, it's over. At halftime, in the middle of a series. It's always hard for me to ever say, oh, this team has got this other team. I can't get my finger on the pulse of the swings. Welcome to the world of coaching. Not being serious. Welcome to the world of coaching. Like every single coach, and Drayman knows better, you know, every single player, but players don't pay attention to it nearly like coaches do. Every coach that's ever coach, including myself, has a game. Well, we were down 13 with a minute 14 to go. and took a lead with one second to go and lost on a three-quarter court shot when we only had four players on the court. So we're down 13 with a minute 14. We're up 28 at Bowling Green with the

number 26 team in the country, meaning the first one getting votes outside the 25. We're up 28 at the eight-minute timeout against a horrible team. We've got to make two free throws with 12 seconds ago to ice the game. Every coach has that experience. When fans chant for the walk on on senior night and the coach doesn't put him in until like two seconds ago, it's because of exactly what you just said. Every single coach is uncomfortable until that buzzer goes off. Tom Tibido just one big with the Knicks. I'm tell you what Tom Tibido is saying. It's the same thing Jason Kidd is saying, hey, man, you better step on their throat. You better not let off the gas because this, this, and this has happened.

No, Draymond Green, I get what he's saying and he's trying to give you insight. But you can tell by those comments, man, he's never really been a fan of a team that's collapsed like I have with the Cubs and others. He's never been a coach. I am telling you what you said about I'm never comfortable. every coach in college professional basketball feels that way every single game. There are very few games. And one of them happened the other night in Indianapolis. Indianapolis got up 40.

40's enough. Like 40 in the second half, you're like, all right, I feel okay. But no, as soon as that game was over, Will, you're on to, Hey, man, we got to go win in Madison Square Garden. As soon as that game was over, kids telling the Mavericks, you guys are pros, you know what this is about. Series ain't over until

it is over. Game isn't over until it's over. And there is no chance in hell that Oklahoma City is just going to sit back and allow their season to end without putting up a hell of a fight. And they're young guys. What they don't

know, they don't know. They don't know the history of down three to one, whatever it is. they're going to fight three to two. It doesn't matter. They're going to fight like crazy. It ain't over. And you're exactly right. That is the world of coaching you just talked about right there.

Okay, so two questions I have for you, Dan, more on the NBA playoffs. One, I want to depart from it because you talked about coaching. That's the world of coaching. I'm actually having this conversation with my sons. Their world is soccer. And I'm curious, you come from the Bobby Knight School, Dan. And I don't know if you coached this way, too. What I want to, I don't even know what my question is.

question is, Dan, but like, here's the thing. You correct anything, anything I say that is wrong, and I know you will. And you've told me some things that will be rebuttals to what I have to say. The perception of Bobby Knight, okay, and I'd be curious about you as a coach as well, is that he, we know he was a screamer, that he was negative, that he rode players, right? But you've told me before he could put his arm around you, and he could also be your confidant, your father-type figure as well. You know, it's interesting. My sons, in the soccer world, there's all kinds of different coaches that you can have. You can have the positive encouragement coach.

You can have the negative Riju coach. And I do believe that each one doesn't just fit different personality types for players, but maybe a different point in their life as well. But I do think there's also a more, maybe a little more modern school of thought of like, you don't need someone to be that negative to pull the best out of you. I'm actually having this debate, you know, a little bit in the family household. It's like, I just wonder, Dan, if you think there's a case to be made that isn't being made for, I don't know if the word is negativity, but, you know, being a screamer, being someone, I don't want,

I don't want my son's confidence to be shot. That's the balance. I was like, you don't want a coach that makes your son's confidence. And these are younger than college age kids, right? you don't want somebody to shoot their confidence to the floor, but I also don't believe everything has to be buddy-buddy. No, here's what you do as a coach. You've got to read individuals,

and that's where Bob Knight was great, and I thought I was pretty good at it. I tried to get to know the individual and understand. Like, you know, kids are going through different things. I had a kid whose father committed suicide. I had another kid who was rich. I had another kid who had a dirt floor, and you've got to understand.

Those guys. I always tell this story, Will, first game I ever played in college basketball, we beat Miami of Ohio by 20. We had two All-Americans, Randy Whitman and Ted Kitchell. Night comes in, Whitman probably had 25, Kitchell probably had 20. And night comes in screaming and yelling at Whitman and Kitchell. And I'm like, damn, I know these other two guards screwed the game up at the end. Why is he yelling at Whitman and Kitchell? Well, Whitman and Kitchell could handle it. And the other two were first-time starters, and they couldn't. My point. My point isn't about screaming. My point is learning to know your team. Now, I will say this. What we've seen in these playoffs, and I'm not going to use disciplinarian or screamer, but what we've seen in these playoffs are somewhat old school, hold you accountable coaches being very successful. And in fact, we've seen it across the board. In football, we've seen it. You know, Andy Reid, people will tell you, he's a great guy to hang out with, but don't cross it. You know, we saw it with Belichick for, years. You don't have to scream and yell. What you do is you learn how to communicate both

positively and negatively with each individual. Like, be honest with you. Some kids need to be yelled at. Some kids need to be. Now, damn it, I've had a, this is what we're going to do. My son needed that. I told every, look, it's not because I yelled that because I really wasn't that way with my kids. He just needs that. He responds to that. My daughter, if somebody did that, would cry. Like just start crying and think I'm the worst human being alive. My son's like that. Coach wants me to be better. So you've got to read the individuals.

But the common thread with winning and respect. And it doesn't matter if it's your sons that are less than college age, high school age, professional age, college age. You've got to make dig on sure that the players respect the operation. And I use the word operation intentionally. Because it's not just the head coach, not just the head coach and the assistants. It's everybody involved, Will, like your kids, let's just say for the sake of argument, they're in junior high and they're playing soccer.

And if the head coach, everybody thinks is a really good coach and the assistant coaches are doing what the head coach wants and everybody's moving in the direction, they'll respect the operation. If the head coach is a really good coach, but he's got a couple of assistants that are telling your son. Yeah, you know, I know Dan says it this way, but that's not really the best way. Kids are smart. Players are smart. They don't respect. They may not even know they don't respect the entire operation. It's like this. I asked Brad Stevens one time, the head coach at Butler, why were you guys able to get to two national championship games, the second one after they lost

a lottery pick? And he said, we had talent, we had winning kids, we did things. But every Everybody in our building was moving in the same direction, meaning the players couldn't go to a janitor or a secretary or the baseball coach's office and find somebody that wasn't going to be like, man, let's keep this going. Man, Brad's a great coach, man, the assistance, everybody, and that's the biggest thing. It's the biggest thing with winning organizations. Everybody moving into, and I don't care, I coach little kids. When I got done it at Indiana in 08, I coached AAU for six years. I coached eighth grade. I coached my daughter's sixth grade.

And the number one thing I told everybody around it. And the parents, I go, look, I'm never going to treat your son bad. I'm not going to yell and scream. But I promise this will be a great experience if everybody's on the same page. If you have a question, don't ask your son. Ask me. And as you get older, you don't want the parents to ask the coach. you want the players. Hey, coach, what we do? And everybody needs to be in the same direction.

And a lot of times when you get a guy like Tibado or you get a guy like Carlyle or you get a guy like Jason kid with his experience, it happens because of the respect they have. And when you see teams that are Uber talented and they falter, I guarantee it. There are divides in the locker room. There are divides among the coaching staff. There are divides among the general manager with the coaches. There's just divides. But anytime you see something special. everybody in the same direction and that's what coaches head coaches have to figure out all right last thing on the on the NBA playoffs um you said to me that it's about you know who steps up does lucas step up does brunson step up does shegilders Alexander step up but you also said in terms

of making it better for the team so with brunson is stepping up and you can see it happening for the nix donchich finally did and i say finally is a fan. And he wasn't stepping up for a while. Right. But SGA has stepped up basically every night. Like he is, he's really good. My eyes are open to him. But it also seems to, it's at the same time, it doesn't lift, right now it's not lifting Oklahoma City as a team. It's like all you have is SGA stepping up. Well, the other team's pretty good too. You know, I always said, hey, the other guys on scholarship, too. So while you're playing well, maybe others aren't. And that's where Brunson, well, let's put it this way. That's where DeVincenzo and Josh Hart, Brunson's teammates,

have really become terrific, not kind of good, which they are during the season, but terrific playoff players. I mean, in here the other night, DiVenzo went seven for 11 from three. Now, remember this. He's on his fourth team. You know, these guys are on their third and four teams. So they've been booted from other teams, but now's their time and they feel comfortable. In the case of OKC, I know exactly what you're saying. I don't think Donchick has been very good. In fact, I got, you know, I got tired of watching it. I mean, you know, there are bad shots, missed shots. I thought he got, you know, when he doesn't play well, I always think he looks fat. Like when he plays well, I always think he looks strong. You know what I mean? I mean, there's a,

you know, it's like, damn. But you're right. Again, a young. team. Look, Chad Holmgren, he's with this in this situation for the first time. And I'm telling you, I'm telling you, as a season, as a series goes on, you can feel it. You can feel the intensity in the building. I'm going tomorrow night to the Pacers game. I went last Friday to the Pacers game, game three. And I'm telling you, Will, people talk about college basketball and being in assembly hall or Mackey Arena. That's great. But this was a whole different level of intensity. And sometimes it takes a game or two. Like I would anticipate, I'm going to say this fairly confident, not 100% confidently, but I would anticipate a Gilgis Alexander's teammates playing

really well in the next game. Doesn't mean they're going to win because the other team's on scholarship too. But I would anticipate now we've seen we can't relax. They beat us in our place. We're desperate. How are we going to respond? And usually, usually pros respond pretty damn well. As I said, doesn't mean they're going to win. You saw Cleveland respond really well without Donovan Mitchell. They didn't win. But you can make the argument. In some cases, they played a lot better than with Donovan Mitchell. So I don't give a damn how old you are. And these of young guys. Sometimes the intensity of it can't be described until you're in it. And I was only in it as a fan. I've never been into NBA playoffs as a coach or a player. But damn, it's something.

It really is. Well, we didn't talk about it. We didn't talk about it. But I think what you're also describing is the Minnesota Denver series. You're watching the intensity and the experience. I mean, Minnesota is a good team. But ultimately, you're looking at a champion and an MVP, and that's what's happening. All right, I want to do a quick couple of cultural stories with you. Caitlin Clark, 2.2 million people watched her WNBA debut, Dan, regular season. The question is, is it novelly or will it last? Does she continue to draw eyeballs over time to the WNBA? I'm anxious to see. I think tonight's a big night in Indianapolis. This opening night, first impressions are the most lasting here in Indy. She's going to get a pretty good crowd,

18,000 is what it holds. She probably gets somewhere between 14 to 16, be the biggest crowd they've had in regular season game. I'm not going to lie to you. I'm a big fan of Caitlin Clark. I'm a big fan of the folks at the fever. They're friends of mine, but it's a hard watch. It just is.

Like, they had the fever game going at 7.30 here and in the 8 o'clock the Pacer game was going. And I watched the fever, and the referees were dumb enough to give Caitlin Clark two files in the first five minutes, which I'm like, you've got to get a call. off from the commissioner on that. Her ass needs to be in the game. What are we doing?

But anyway, when you turn it over to the NBA, there's a big difference. I'm hoping that because I have a wife, daughter, stepdaughter that all are big time athletes played in college, so I'm a big fan of women's sports. But I think it's a big night. I think if she drops 40 and does it against the New York Liberty, first impressions are going to carry over.

But I think she struggles. And it's a dull game, I don't know. They will be bigger crowds, for sure. Her influence is great. But how big? How much does that sustain two months from now? I think early impressions, man. I think they're important.

And I can't give you an answer. I know this. I wanted to watch. I made an appointment TV to watch. My wife and I did. Three minutes in, we're like, I don't know. Hmm. Okay, I want to move over to Dan Quinn and the Washington Commanders. A story this week that it was controversial. He wore some kind of T-shirt that included an Indian feather.

So it still said commanders, but it had an Indian feather hanging off commanders. So it appears to me that the controversy suggests, Dan, it was racist to use the term Redskins, and now it's racist to acknowledge the existence of American Indians. Yeah, well, whoever says that, who cares? Like, you know what I mean? Like, who cares? This is my new thing, Will, and I'm curious your response. Everybody wants to bitch whine and moan about everything.

Like the chief diversity officer of the NFL is all mad at Harrison Butker because he made his Catholic views available at a Catholic university. And my thing is, yeah, I don't care. Go stand in the corner and be mad, Jonathan Bean. you're the go be mad you people that are mad at dan queen that's great be mad awesome go be mad hey look we got 350 million people in this country we shouldn't have all the same opinions we should have differing opinions you want to be mad go ahead nothing racist about it see here's what you do as a coach and i don't care if this is college or professional when you come in as a coach you try to get everybody rallied you try to get the old guard rallied you try to get obviously the current players

you try to get everybody brought together. You do it. I reached out at Bowling Green to X players one of the first things I did. Get them back in the fold. Get them back comfortable. That's what I saw Dan Quinn doing. And if we can't acknowledge

that we had American Indians in this country, I don't know what to tell you. Again, go over there and be mad. That's what I used to tell my kids. You're mad at me? Good. Go right over there and be mad and let me know when you're not mad anymore. And then, you know, we'll talk about it.

I'm so tired of it. You know, so you're mad. Let me ask you, well, what does that mean? Well, I'd say, well, first of all, I'm going to answer your question. So I don't, I am, I have a problem with this whole idea that somehow anything that acknowledges the existence of American Indians is somehow racist. I think it's racist and bigoted to erase history and pretend like we can't dare ever use American Indians in reference to anything.

I mean, you know, I think it's like the noble adversary, cowboys and Indians, like a Black Hawk Indian drew the logo for the Washington Redskins, and it was noble, you know, and it wasn't a cartoon, it wasn't derogatory, it was celebratory, and I just, I can't believe someone cloaks themselves in nobility and the moral high ground while taking an eraser to history. You're the absurd one here, but here's why I like your perspective. It's certainly the stoic perspective. go be mad. My problem is, like, on Harrison Butker, as I talked about this week on the Will Cane show, most people just consume news casually, Dan. It just flows over them, and they don't really know the story. And so what's reduced to, and I just saw before you and I hopped on, a clip from the view, where they're basically making the argument that Harrison Bucker is a religious extremist who wants to turn the world into the Handmaid's Tale. And I'm like, he is? Because he's celebrated like people that choose to be moms and wives. Like, in the end, Harrison Butker, at least on the portion where he's talking about women. In the end, it's almost, it's a slightly more controversial

chat GPT version of a Mother's Day card. Like, it's what we all wrote down on Sunday. We all wrote down what you did being my mom, you know, or you, the mother of my children, there couldn't be anything more valuable you've ever contributed to society. And Harrison Bucker said, hey, this is the best thing you can do for anything in your life. And everybody's like, oh my God, he's a sexist. Oh, my God, it's the handmade's tale. And that will wash over everybody, and that's how they'll internalize it. And I'm like, well, sometimes, okay, you can go be mad, but I'm going to go ahead and destroy you while you're in the corner being mad. You know, one of the great things about being a broadcaster, and I know you do this really well, I do. I've paid attention to you is

you listen. Like, the best thing you can do, I felt as a broadcast, whenever I talk to a class, I say you've got to be able to listen and not listen where you're waiting to speak. Actually listen to what the other person is saying and then formulate whatever it is you're going to speak. Not simultaneously. And I honest to God, I'm watching the response on Harrison Budker and I'm thinking to myself, are you really listening? Like, are you listening to what he's saying? And are you putting it in your own life's context?

Here's what I mean by that. I basically in my life have five women, a wife, an ex-wife, a sister, a mother, and a sister-in-law. And I thought about this. All five have unbelievable careers. My mother, a teacher. My ex-wife is a college counselor. My current wife, longtime softball coaching teacher. My sister, 25-year domestic violence prosecutor.

My sister-in-law, the biggest realtor in the city. And they all have families, and they all have terrific families. And every single one of them, everyone tells you, my greatest satisfaction is my children. My greatest satisfaction is the success of my greatest worry is my children. It's not whether or not you're going to make a sale. You do worry about that. It's not whether or not you're going to be prepared for the next day's lesson. You are worried about that or whether my wife was going to win a softball game or win the Big East Championship.

You worry about that. But when it really gets broken down, and truthfully, This is for a lot of men, too. You know, but I think women, at least the women in my life, agree. Hey, look, doesn't mean nobody's saying, and Butker did not say you cannot go for the promotion. You cannot go for success. She's not saying that. And it astounds me, Will, that people immediately, they hear this, they don't think on it,

they immediately turn it into their narrative instead of just listening on it and maybe putting, their own personality or their own experiences in it and go, oh, yeah, but immediately it became, he doesn't want women to have careers. How dare you tell a woman what to do? But read it, see it, and that's not what he's doing at all. So, again, that's why I say it's so absurd to me because you're not going to win any argument with anybody.

I mean, nobody's changing your mind or my mind or their mind. I mean, it's just like, all right, you're mad. God bless you. But nobody listens. And I'll be, I'll be honest with you. There are times, because you know I'm a bit of a smart ass, there are times when I can tell somebody isn't listening to me, and I'll just say something incredibly gross to them.

Just to see. Just to see. And it's about, I'll give them two thirds of the time. They go, what, but, you know, but a third of the time, it's amazing to me. we want to attack instead of actual and we want to attack with lies and we start the conversation spinning the words into lies and there's no winning that argument with somebody that does it there just isn't well i think you just spoke gospel uh you're absolutely right about listening

i've said it on numerous occasions it's what makes you a good debater it makes what makes you a good conversationalist it's what makes you a good interviewer it's what makes you a good interviewer it's listening and you're actually right about the type of listening too and this is something that i had to learn um like i've always been an active listener uh not just waiting for my turn to talk but also don't just listen to this is where i'm growing right now dan don't just listen to find where i'm going to slip my punch that was a little bit first take style listening like i joe tessitore ken you on time i'm kane you're a counter puncher you know you know and it's true Like, I would listen, and then I'd be like, oh, I see where he threw that haymaker.

I'm going to come right around the side and get him there. But I actually am working on listening and not listening for the rebuttal. Listening. And if their rebuttal is there, then it'll be there and it'll be worthy. But sometimes the listening is for me to learn something or just be interesting or build off of one another. But it's way better when you listen. Everything. Like even at a backyard barbecue.

Let me tell you, one of the things that used to make me crazy, to your point about counterpunching, was playing golf or having dinner. You mentioned Bob Knight with him because he was the guy that was waiting for the word that you used that could give him the opportunity to come at you or to, what's the right word, diminish you. And it's exhausting when you have to put words together and make sure you don't put. a wrong word in somewhere because somebody is going to use it, even though it didn't mean what they are saying, presenting to you. That's exhausting. And, you know, there's a guy at ESPN that they're like, hey, you want to play golf? And I go, no, I don't, it would be exhausting. He's a very

popular guy. People like him. And I'm like, no, I don't need the evaluation of every sentence. but the truth of the matter is we don't listen the truth of the matter is we listen to our own device meaning we listen so that we can spin in our own direction and frankly

I'm not sure if I did that when you're a head coach you kind of have this I'm the boss thing and you know you might listen to a players complain or a player's thing about what you're doing but I'm still the damn boss really I got the greatest advice from a while people rush limbo. He told me two things in a suite at the Colts game. Never get a partner

because you don't want to share the money. That's pretty good advice. And three things. Never get a partner because you don't want to share the money and you don't want to hear anybody else talk but yourself. And don't ever interrupt somebody that you bring on your show, listen instead. I'm like, okay, that's pretty good. Because you're bringing them on your show. is good for a point of view, right? That may or may not be the same as you, but let them express. If it's an argument, then come back.

If it's a conversation, great. If it's two people acquiescing to one another, fantastic. And I think that's good advice, but Twitter makes that impossible. Social media makes that impossible. Clicks, likes, brand makes that impossible. You know, radio shows like yours make it very possible. Right. Yeah, that's really good stuff. Advice from Rush Limbaugh. All right, from a talking head basketball right now here on the Wilcane show.

A basketball with white teeth. We can see your white teeth on your Zoom filter. All right, Dan Dockich, I always love talking to you. I know you got a tea time. So go hit it, and we appreciate you hitting it here on the Will Cane show. Hey, man, thanks for having me. Always love talking you, my friend. There you go. I hope you enjoyed that conversation with the host of Don't At Me at Outkick com. Dan Docket, check out his show and make sure you subscribe to the Will Cain show on Apple or Spotify. I'll see you again next time. Listen to ad free with a Fox News podcast plus subscription on Apple Podcasts and Amazon Prime members. You can listen to this show

ad free on the Amazon Music app. From the Fox News Podcasts Network. Hey there, it's me, Kennedy. Make sure to check out my podcast Kennedy saves the world. It is five days a week, every week. Download and listen at Fox Newspodcast.com or wherever you listen to your favorite podcast.