Will Cain Country - David Pollack: On life after ESPN and having the freedom to truly express himself

Episode Date: November 1, 2024

Will sits down with the author of 'The Won't Quit Kid' and former ESPN College Gameday analyst, David Pollack, who is now free to be himself politically and religiously after being fired from ESPN and open to express his opinions on issues such as transgender athletes in women's sports.   Pollack also discusses his favorite college campuses he visited while traveling for ESPN College Gameday, what locked him into Athens for his Bulldogs' career, and why you shouldn't prioritize sports before God. Will and David also go head-to-head in the latest round of 'Will Vs. The Experts.' Tell Will what you thought about this podcast by emailing [e-mail] Subscribe to The Will Cain Show on YouTube here: Watch The Will Cain Show!   Follow Will on Twitter: @WillCain Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It's the Will Kane Show normally streaming live every Monday through Thursday at 12 o'clock Eastern time at Fox News.com, the Fox News YouTube channel and the Fox News Facebook page. Always on demand, subscribing at Apple, Spotify, or on YouTube, will make it always available to you, the Will Kane Show. Today is a Canaan Sports Edition, sports exclusive version of the Will Cain Show. David Pollock, the author of The Won't Quit Kid and my former colleague at ESPN. We haven't seen each other since our ESPN days. So I'm a little bit fascinated by this part of our conversation.

I saw, it was actually written up at Fox News.com, a conversation you had with another former colleague of ours, Jason Whitlock. I think Jason and I overlapped at ESPN, although I never saw him at ESPN. You and I saw each other. You'd come on the Will Kane show. I'd see you around the building in Bristol. And you said some interesting things to Jason Whitlock. You talked about your time at ESPN and that you felt like you couldn't speak freely. You said some pretty fascinating things, I think, as well about how you, you were kind of mad at yourself.

You felt a little bit of shame that you didn't think you had the courage that you should have had at your time to speak your mind while at ESPN. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's definitely, everybody works for companies and different companies that have maybe different beliefs than you. And, you know, listen, I think that everybody has to adhere to some form of, you know, there's a social media and you, your opinions belong with our opinions. And so I think you have to kind of take that into account. And I definitely think I did a poor job. And I just think it didn't matter what company it was, by the way. It didn't matter who I worked for. I just, I wish I would have represented myself better. I wish I had stood up for topics that were. important to me. I wish I'd had I had a larger voice on certain things that I think I could have. And now that I've, you know, that situation's gone, I won't do it again. And I'll make sure that things that are important that need to be stepped up for that I think are that need a voice. I don't think I'm the, the end all be all by any stretch. But you know this will from working there. There's a lot of people that can get away with a lot of things and say certain things in a certain

way. And that's okay. And there's a lot of people that can't. And I wasn't one of those people that could get away with just anything I wanted to do. And I think anything I do moving forward, I'll make sure whatever position I'm in that I'm going to be unapologetically me and represent the things that represent me. I want to actually dig into this, David, not to press you, because I think there's something to be revealed here. So, and if we dig into how it works, I think there's something for everyone to learn. So first of all, were you ever told while you at ESPN, don't talk about that or your point of view is it welcome in any way were you ever you know, openly communicated that with ESPN? We were very much steered away from like

politics and now there was a point when things kind of switched. I think everybody can probably point to that moment in time when things went a little bit different between politics and sports and then the line started to get a little bit more murky. But like we definitely knew in the beginning. Stay away from politics. Stay away from, you know, vulgar things, obviously. Stay away from women things like sexist things. And so, yeah, I mean, kind of those, those things were definitely things that were mentioned. And those, that was for the show at large college game day. It wasn't necessarily targeted David Pollock or your particular point of view on a topic. I think that it was for, it wasn't directed at any show. We would go to a convention

every year and we would talk and we would, you know, we would get those points across. to us about how our social media represents the company, and you definitely knew where they stood and what things were important. So I think it was to the whole company that came to those retreats every year. Like the whole college football team would sit down in a room with hundreds of people, and we would discuss stuff like that. Right. And then, okay, and then that takes us to social media. So do you feel like if you look back on your time at ESPN, the place you felt most inhibited maybe wasn't on air with topics that came up on game day or even if you were a guest on, say, the Will Cain Show, but more what you might have wanted to say on social media.

100%. Yeah. When you wanted to dip into something that was important to you that you saw were going on, and listen, I'm not ashamed to say it now when I get to is just like men and women sports. Like, there's no part of me that could ever get behind that. Now, listen, I didn't say like it was my job to step up and do that because the first thing I think of, you know, those are women's sports. Like those are women's, that's their opportunity to probably step on. to say something. And then you, you stand by long enough. I got a daughter, man. I coach I coach

girls high school basketball now, which is fantastic, and I love it. And I just don't understand why anybody could even remotely think this is something that's possible. So a million percent wouldn't have said it if I was at ESPN, wouldn't have tweeted about it, wouldn't have talked about it, because, you know, I know that it was not have been something that would have been probably, you know, welcomed. So the reason I'm pressing in on this, I think that I'm going to take you somewhere. So I probably, when I was at ESPN, David, felt more free than you did. And part of that was because of who I am, even the topics I was allowed to cover on the types of shows that I was on, first take, the Will Kane Show versus College Game Day. But I will say my, the way that I

encountered any type of, I don't even know if I would call it censorship, but bias and how I was, how I approached sensitive topics like we'll just stick with the issue of trans athletes is if if I were to go on air and say the popular thing within the building and that almost often leaned to the left then I wouldn't be required to bring on an opposite point of view

but if I gave my point of view then it would be suggested will you should bring on this particular writer at ESPN and w or whatever it may be to give the other point of view and with me they always had an open audience on that because i like debate and i was up for having that challenging conversation but it was like if if i do it my way i need to have a counterpoint if i do it the popular way within the building at disney then you can do it on your own and i think we also saw you know you got to see sage steel like you witnessed that you got to watch how she how that was handled

and I got to watch her, you know, get suspended. And ironically enough, and I point to this every time I talk to Sage because she's a good friend, like the first day Sage was back. She was doing Saturday Sports Center. And I was doing game day. And I would always do the morning hit. And the first thing I said was, welcome back. We really missed you.

And because we did. And we missed her. But, but you knew like there were consequences. So yeah, I mean, yeah, you definitely, you know, first take, obviously takes on a different, a different realm for sure. But I think when you're an analyst and it's like college football, you know, stay in your lane a little bit more. This is what we do. This is how we do it.

And, you know, maybe you shouldn't have certain opinions that represent us. Okay. And then this is where I'm going with this conversation, David, because this is what I experienced. A lot of times when I would ESPN, I felt alone. You know, I knew that Sage might share a few opinions that were similar to me because I think we had conversations. And like, take you and me, I don't know that I knew you might agree with me on some issues, except there. might have been some like cultural undercurrents that suggested oh david and i might be on the same page that you know if you were in bristol and i saw you in the building and you came on my show in

person and it's hard to even explain how or why i might pick that up but i don't even know that you and i had any open conversations about things beyond sports to be honest um that would have told me this but here's where i'm going with this you felt specifically inhibited on social media and that's fine an ESPN exec could say, well, David, it's not your job to tell me what you think about trans athletes on social media. But it was, it was not a two-way street. There's too many people that have the other point of view that were open and willing to share their points of view on social media. And they obviously didn't suffer for that. And you felt like if I did, I would suffer.

And you weren't wrong. You probably would have suffered. and so what ends up happening is self-censorship. I think that's the environment that was created. You made a choice. And this is the part I think where you say, well, I don't feel good about the choice that I made. You described yourself with some guilt about the choice you made.

But what you did is you self-censored. And I think you're not alone, David. I think a lot of people self-censored. And the hard part about it is the ones that had the other point of view never had to self-censor. No, and why is that? Like, because you know the current of what you feel. You know the current of what you're working with. You know the current of the beliefs. You know the current of what's shown repeatedly and what's allowed and the other side of that, which isn't. So yeah, I mean, I think that's where I go to. And I even said on Whitlock, I was a coward. Like I should have done a better job. You don't self-censor. You be you. And if there's consequence, now it's easy to say, by the way. when your check's gone, though, it's not easy to say. And when you're providing for your family, you're trying to make money and I got a 16-year-old home and a 14-year-old home, that's not an easy thing to say. Now, I can also say that now, looking back and say, I won't let it happen again.

No matter what opportunity I go into, I will be unapologetically me, and they're going to have to take that or leave it, and I won't take the job or I will take the job. And I think that's what you learn with experience, you live, you learn, you go through something and you hope you get better. and on the other side, you know, something that you've learned from it, that you've taken from it. Out of curiosity, last one on this, David, like, you mentioned the issue of trans athletes, you know, men playing women's sports, and you've since said some things about that issue. Was that what kept you up at night?

Like, was it the same issues as Sage, COVID? Was it Kaepernick kneeling during the National Anthem? Were there issues, what were they? Where you were like, at the end of the day, as you lay down, you're like, man, I'm mad at myself that I won't say what I truly think. I think you hit it was it was that and then more and then you know like even for me man I got really I get really annoyed I don't understand the cursing on air all the time like I don't understand how that became slowly became started to become a thing like I considered myself to try

to kind of be a robot all those things I think all of it in totality going through the COVID and going through you know different different experiences and things that you that you see around you that, man, why are we talking about this? Like, I'm literally like, why are we discussing this? I know I'm not allowed to discuss this. I know I'm not allowed to have my opinion on this and what I want to say. And we're doing it again. And we're doing it again.

And we're doing it again. I love the days, man, when we turned on the television on sports and we learned about sports. And it stopped there. If I want to learn about politics, I'll turn the Will Cane show on. Like, that's fine. And that's your prerogative. And like, I miss that.

That's what I really appreciated about the job. I had was talking to men about sports because that's mostly what you get, you know, and so it was fantastic, and it definitely changed and morphed and shifted while I was there. You don't have to shove your dog away. I just saw David's dog walk around in the background. He gave him a little shove. He's welcome on the Will Kane show. Speaking of your job at ESPN, you had game day, and I would imagine if you polled 10 dudes,

it would come highly rated as the dream job, like to travel around college campuses, get to talk about college football you probably were a part of one of the dream jobs in college football was it a dream man yeah i mean go to the different campuses experience all the different fans all the different traditions in a sport that is the best like it's just second to none the passion is second than none so i mean being able to go see all these different things all these different experiences man it was so much fun and when i started television so i broke my neck in the nfl and But my agent, I was, I called him one day after I was watching Kirk and he was, he was doing a debate with somebody. And I, and I called my agent. I said, hey, man, I think I want to do television. And he was like, why? I was like, I think I could be good at this. Like I love the sport. I love the passion. I love the energy. I have opinions. Like, and who wouldn't want to do that? And then I met with him. I said, I'd love to do college game day one day. And he was like, ha, you know, like, everybody wants to do that show. So huge show, great people, a cavalcade of people. that we worked with but yeah man some of the best fans the best traditions the best venues i've been

all of them like i've been all the way across the country to almost every state as as a job that was pretty fantastic you're a big georgia bulldog so i'm going to try to ask you this question in a way that doesn't lead us to the answer being Georgia um when you started this job and you got to do all of the all of the different campuses like which one surprised you like i didn't know this environment was so good. I didn't know these traditions were so cool. Like what was the sneaky campus that surprised David Pollitt? Man, there was a bunch because West Coast you don't hear about as much. You know, like, I'm from the South, so I didn't hear much about West Coast football growing up. So like when you went to a game in Eugene, you're like, dang, like these people,

they are, they are loud, they are noisy, they are into this thing. Washington was another one out west that was unbelievable um so now that the coolest thing to me was always the smaller schools like going to north dakota state and watching them close their city down will like we were our set was in the middle of downtown like a stoplight right here and a stoplight right here and it's like everything's done for the day like we're stopping everyone's here um james madison virginia tech was was sneaky good then you go to like penn state with a white out and you're like what is this is incredible so So a lot of teams that you might not have known about along the way,

especially because I've played in every atmosphere in the South, but getting to expand that and go elsewhere. We're going to step aside here for a moment. Stay tuned. Hey, I'm Trey Gowdy host of the Trey Gowdy podcast. I hope you will join me every Tuesday and Thursday as we navigate life together and hopefully find ourselves a little bit better on the other side. Listen and follow now at Fox Newspodcast.com.

This is Jason Chaffetz from the Jason in the House podcast. Join me every Monday to dive deeper into the latest political headlines and chat with remarkable guests. Listen and follow now at Fox Newspodcast.com or wherever you download podcasts. Were you always locked in with Georgia? Did you almost go anywhere else? What did it come down to when you were getting your offers and your acceptance to play college football? And this was easy. It was Lindsay Pollock.

Like my bride was 45 minutes down the road from the University of Georgia will and I wasn't leaving her. That was the best recruiting tool they had bar none. I grew up, I was born in New Jersey, and my daddy took a job down south, and I moved when I was four, and he was a pro football fan. He was a Giants fan, and so we were Giants fans. We didn't follow college football that much, but once I started getting recruited, I was like, wait a minute, my baby doll's here. I ain't going far from her.

Like, I know I love her. So that was really the main reason why I went to Georgia, and then I started to learn about all the traditions and anything will where a grown man can bark at you and it's acceptable like i'm in how old were you when you started dating lindsay i was 17 there's my first my first girlfriend will like the first interest i had in girls because i was like a i was like a football dude sports dude like played card games with my parents played video games like i had had little to no interest. My son unfortunately at 16 is following my footsteps. I have a 16 year old who's had a girlfriend for well over a year, two years. This was not the story of Will Kane. I was not a

long-term girlfriend guy until much later in life. I had girlfriends, but six months would have been like a real serious, whoa, what's going on here? And I wonder sometimes, wow, like this is a long relationship at 16. And here you are telling me, and you say you worry because your son. So you were one and done, David. You're one and done. You dated your high school girlfriend, married your high school girlfriend. And now you think the same's happening with, I mean, your son's 16, so you don't want to write the, you don't want to, you almost don't want to speak it into existence because that's a lot of pressure. But he's headed down the same path. Well, I say this head to down the same path. First of all, one and done and excited to be one and done. Like, I found, I found the one that fit for me.

And that was like, listen, I'm a lot, man. Like, I am not, I'm not an easy person. I'm not an easy person to always deal with but like my my wife has strong faith so like it was immediate connection with with church and our faith and things that were important like she wasn't a party or i don't i never drink alcohol in my life like i don't i'm just kind of boring and i say that because my son's kind of boring he doesn't have a girlfriend yet i'm saying now i am thankful we did find out last year he did like girls so but i'm saying it's not important like he likes ball and and that's it Like, I'm like, but I'm, dude, we can go have fun. Like, hey, you want to be social?

You want to go do this? You want to go do that? And he's unfortunately a lot like that. He's like, I'm at home. I'm good. I want to work out. I'm a meathead. So that's the path we're going down.

All right. You've written this book, the Won't Quit Kid. And you just brought up your son and he likes Ball. You talk about in the book, resilience. And you bring up a stat that I find fascinating. And that it's that 60% of kids quit sports by the age of 13 due to pressure in burnout. And it's like our society, David, has sort of hit a fork in the road and parents choose one of two ways to go. One potential path is inactivity. Like they just aren't active.

They let their kids stay inside. They play video games. They don't play sports. The other path is overinvestment, I think, in sports. And this is the path that my family has gone down. And I can see firsthand, like, you know, select team, travel team, specialization, all at a very, young age. And I've known the entire time, be careful because there is a washout age. It's about 13 or 14. But it does seem like we're kind of stuck between these two paths. Maybe the path that you and I had growing up, which is play four sports in the year, the truth is in modern day America, you have to be David Pollock to play four sports or three sports. What I mean by that is you have to be a really special athlete that can walk on to every team in four months cycles.

and the coach says, I'm playing him because he's so good. For every other person, if you're not specializing and giving a year-round practice, like, you're probably not going to be on the high-level competition team. Okay, you might, okay, I'll give you that you might not be on the 13-U, 14-U high-level competition team, but I would argue it has zero to do with your future because that team has nothing to do with what you're going to be in high school. Like, I didn't have a travel team, Will, I didn't have a personal trainer, I didn't have a personal coach. I wrote my bike through the neighborhood.

And God gave me a gift. Like he gave me big strong legs and a big butt and like a tenacity to me. So like it had nothing to do with the sports team that I was on. And I think the focus on sports teams, man, it's crazy. It's nuts. Those travel teams exist to be moneymakers. That's what they're doing. They're making money off of all you.

And you get to choose what you get. And listen, I wrongly did this, Will. Like, I wish I could go back and change it. I think, God, I changed it before they got to, like, seventh grade and, and chose the right, I think the right way for our family. Like, church ain't something we're missing. So travel ball is awesome. Baseball is fantastic.

I love it. I love, I don't love baseball, but I loved our team. I love for my son. And, but here's the thing, man, church is more important. And when we go to basketball, baseball, and football, and we play sports year round, what you're showing your kid is we'll miss church every Sunday to go play sports because sports is more important.

And everybody's like, that's not what we talk about at home. We talk about no, no, no, God is the most important thing. Well, you're showing them otherwise. You're showing them that we don't do this because sports runs our lives. And we go from here to here to here.

And I think sports as a culture is at a whack, man. I think we could dial it back like 30 or 40% big time. I think we could play more sports. Are you going to suffer some of the consequences? You might not be as elite at a young age, but I would argue if you're a really good athlete, when I get you to high school, I'm a high school defensive line coach,

if you're a really, really good athlete, athletes get better really quickly. Like, I can teach you something that I can teach a non-athlete with technique and face and hands that's going to take time and drills and reps. Like that kid over there that's a freak show athlete, he'll pick it up really quickly.

And so I think that there's too much focus on, I have to do this, I have to keep up with the Joneses. You don't. You need to set a schedule for your family that you want to stick to. That's important to you. A team isn't going to make you some kind of special player in the future. Like, you're going to have that gift that God's given you or not.

You're going to maximize it. You're going to love it. People that love it will, and I would argue this, and I'll shut up. Like, I got to Georgia will, and I was like, this is awesome. Like, I get to work out. I get to do mat drills. I get to go here. I get to go there.

And I had so many players that were five star guys that were just like, man, I'm so sick and tired of doing this. I've been doing it since I was eight. Like, this is what we do. My parents were on me. We grind it all the time. We did this. I'm like, wait room, this is awesome.

Like, we get to practice. This is cool. And I would argue, man, when you got a love for it, you'll work for it. And you'll want to work for it. But when we make them do the same drills over and over and we're plugging in, we're making them do X, Y, and Z. And we always go to baseball and always go to basketball, always go to football. They're going to come to you at some point more than likely.

and they're going to say, I quit. And you know what's fascinating about this, David, is I think most parents, I'm not sure why most parents do it, but I think that a probable reason is they want to have, I'm not even sure they want the financial benefit as much as sort of the crossing,

the finish line moment of playing in college or even better yet getting a scholarship to play in college. And there's something happening right now in college. And that is that we're on, literally, like, we're standing on the edge of the cliff. It's about to change drastically. And every sport outside of football, basketball, and baseball are going to see, it looks like, what we're going to see is reduced roster spots. With this NCAA settlement about the NIL and paying players and revenue sharing with athletes,

the third sort of negotiated part of that settlement was they're going to set roster caps. And so every sport now theoretically can give their team full confidence. of scholarships, but they're going to reduce the number of roster spots. And everything that I'm reading is say goodbye, basically, to, like, thousands of athletes and mostly sports. I don't know what that's going to mean for football, for example, David. Like, they're saying the day of the walk-on is over, but, like, we're going to go from 85 to 105 scholarships.

But my point is, I think for most people doing this out there, if the carrot is college or a scholarship to college, I think that carrot just got massively reduced. why and listen some every circumstance is different so don't get me wrong like there are some people that like that's their ticket to college and that's their only way and and i and i and i get that i'm i'm not in that spot like that's not where we're at with with nichols that's not where we're at with liam but like why are we why are we always pushing towards what why are we always projecting towards college why are we always projecting towards the professional aspect like i want my kids to live their age like that is a big thing in my household i don't

don't have to worry but my daughter wants to play college basketball and she talks about it all the time and she's a freshman and i'm like baby let's play her freshman year first like let's start here like freshman year of high school would be outstanding but she hears all these different things and i need to do this and i need to put a highlight tape out and i need to go to all these camps and i'm like baby no you don't you don't need to do all that stuff and you need to live this age right here you're going to have a fun year you're on a great team yes like go accept whatever role you have try as hard as you can be a great teammate. And I think we can help define success for our kids a little better than the world's doing right now. The world might say NFL. The world might say MLB. Like that's not, that's not success for

my kids. For my kids, we want them to learn the lessons that come with football, with baseball, with basketball. And I think everybody can agree with that. Like, there's so many, the discipline, the toughness, the winning, the losing, the adversity. Like, we all love that. But why are we always pointing towards the next hill we need to climb or the next thing? when we can enjoy the mess out of where we're at. And then if that comes, that's awesome. But we didn't know we didn't miss the ride that we were on right here. And I think a lot of parents put that pressure and look ahead when that might not,

also might not even be their idea of what success looks like. Like if you ever stopped and asked them, like, what do you really want to do? And what that looks like for 15 and 16 is a lot different. So I do think parents have the, they're trying to help their kids. But if you're always riding your kids and you need to do this, you need to do that and get in the gym and get this, if they don't adopt their journey, they won't be successful anyways. And if it's not theirs, they won't be successful. So if you're trying to control it and drive it and motivate it, you're not helping them because if they don't learn that, they have a zero percent chance of being successful down the road. boy you're singing my song i was just thinking about this david the good old days might be right now

or the good old days might have been yesterday but we always play this thing like the band is going to play once i climbed the next hill like that will be the good old days the next thing that i accomplish and you might look back on it and like being eight years old and playing soccer might be the best it ever was and that's going to be okay you've got to enjoy it when it is what it is it doesn't have to manifest into this moment that we all have in our head which by the way this is bigger than sports we live our lives this way i probably live my career this way like at some point there's going to be this big moment and that moment will be when you arrive in town and the bands playing and the parade has started and you don't realize

the parade was two miles back there but you didn't pay attention because you were looking forward at this next thing that you wanted to happen. And by the way, I think that you're a unique person to talk about this, and I know you have in the book, you know, if you're looking back at it, David, you know, your career probably, I don't know if you did it while you were in your career, appreciated the journey, but it didn't end the way that you probably always thought that it would. If you were looking for some hill to climb or you had some, like, moment that you envisioned, it probably wasn't the way reality played out for you.

But that doesn't rob you of the fact, Hey, there was some good old days. Yeah, there's some great day. And I always say, and I said this when I was in college when I was graduating, man. I'm not the type that I'm going to cry because it's over. Like, I'm going to smile because it happened. And I've kind of lived that way. Like, just like when I got fired from ESPN in college game day, like, yeah, it was awesome.

It was a great ride. I got to do that, man. Like, I got to travel the country and see all those things for 15 years. I mean, I didn't even deserve to do it. I got to do like there was so many more people that were way more qualified that easily could have done that job. So I think, man, a big part of our lives in every day accepting where we're at and loving where we're at and loving the pursuit of whatever comes next. And that's whether it's spiritual, whether it's school, whether it's career, whether it's, you know, friendships, whatever that is, man. Like those are awesome opportunities that you kind of get to slowly start writing your story and deciding what you want to be and what you want to do next.

All right, we're going to step aside here for just a moment. Stay tuned. I'm Janice Dean. Join me every Sunday as I focus on stories of hope and people who are truly rays of sunshine in their community and across the world. Listen and follow now at foxnewspodcast.com. So I do this every week, David.

This is your chance to talk some actual football with me as well today, not just talk about the won't quit kid and not just for you and I to philosophize about life. but to also talk about a little bit of football. I do this every week, Will versus the experts. I'm going to have five games here, all right. You and I are going to pick these games together, me versus David Pollock, me versus college game day here.

I've got this week three pro games. I usually kind of lean more heavily on college because I've been more interested in college football this year than the NFL, but actually pro is a better week. But let's start in college. I want to, I'm going to be paying attention to Pitt versus SMB. you, David. I'm kind of fascinated by the ACC. I think Miami is good. I do not think they are a runaway favorite to win the ACC because I think Clemson is really improved week to week. And then I'm

fascinated with the teams underneath those, like SMU, Pitt, we just, Syracuse just lost to Pitt. But we have some teams here who might be the last man standing when it comes to the ACC, but Pitt and SMU will decide if either of them will be that way this weekend. By the way, SMU is favored by seven and a half, David. So who are you taking? I am going to take the ponies, mostly because they're right here, and I live in Dallas, and half the people I know love SMU. And I actually grew up a fan before.

I'm a pre-death penalty fan of SMU, and I'm happy they're back. I also think their quarterback is really good, and I'm going to take SMU. Yeah, Jennings is good, man. Now, listen, they fumbled 732 times. last week or turn it over it was very sloppy and still won and still won SMU teams in the past probably wouldn't have found that but it's been fun to watch SMU navigate the quarterback spot they know who their guy is now and because of that they're super explosive he's a baller so yeah but here's the thing with Narduzian pit just like they did with McCord that he's always

got a plan that's unique that's different that you haven't seen so I will take the ponies too but Pittsburgh will definitely be a fight all right um I love this analysis. Good. We're getting real in-depth analysis. All right. Ohio State favored by three and a half against Penn State. Here's what I think.

I don't believe in either of these teams, to be honest. I mean, obviously, Ohio State's talent is there, but I haven't seen it translate yet on the field. So normally that would push me towards the dog, getting the three and a half points if I've got a favorite that I think is overrated. But I don't, I mean, I can't tell you how many times I've picked Penn State in I think I've done that throughout my career at ESPN, and since I've picked Penn State in big games repetitively and lost.

So I'm probably going to take the Buckeyes. I understand that method, and I've said this for years about Penn State, but I think this is different. When I watch Ohio State last week and against Oregon, first of all, they lost their left tackle. Their backup came in last week and really struggled. and then he got hurt late in the game. So they're probably going to be on their third left tackle. And they can't run the football. They can't like Nebraska own the line of scrimmage.

When I look at Penn State, I think it's the time. I think it's the time for the Will Keynes for the Mies that have like disrespected them along the way and said it's not time. Their defense is super fast, super athletic. They lost, by the way, they lost Drew Riler last week. And I think he's not going to play. And he's their starting quarterback. Which is huge.

I think it. it actually makes this team more dangerous with Bo Pebula in the game. Number nine, because he's a really elite athlete. He can fly, Will. So he can run. I think they have a better chance of moving the football because they're not a lead wide receiver. With him, an elite tight end, and their best part of their team is an elite tight end and two running backs. And now you had a third running back.

You've got a coordinator who can do this. I think they can score a little bit better Penn State at home. Give me it in three and a half, brother. All right, so you've got Penn State. I've got the Buckeyes. By the way, the best thing on the Buckeyes' resume is a narrow loss to Oregon, which I was going to ask to you, if that version of Ohio State shows up, they'll beat Penn State.

But I was going to ask you, you know, I'm a Longhorn guy. You're a Georgia guy. But I think if we're both being honest, neither one of our teams have given, I don't think we should feel confident in either team. I really don't. Like, Texas's offense is extremely concerning. I don't think your quarterback is very intimidating. You've got a great defense.

I think Texas has a really good defense. Ohio State, we just broke down about their limitations. The only team that really has been impressive is Oregon. Honestly, it's Oregon. And it's kind of a weird place where we've got four or five teams. I think we, I'm not going to speak on your behalf, four or five teams that are in the range of, I think you could actually win a national title.

But those four or five teams outside of Oregon have given me reason to doubt every single one of them. The only thing I would say that, first of all, Ohio State barely lost to Oregon at Oregon, which is a huge advantage playing at home. So they barely lost to them. Oregon barely beat Boise. Oregon has struggled throughout the season. They haven't looked great.

They look really good against Ohio State, and they look really good against Illinois. They spanked Illinois this past week, which is the last top 25 team that's on their schedule. So I think everybody can be beat. I think this is the most – because of the changes, Will, in college. football because of the transfer report just like this talking to a top five coach in all of college football who recruits the best players in the country he literally said we're not going to take multiple five-star guys at say a defensive tackle position you know why will because if one plays guess what the other one does as a freshman he go home i'm transferring i'm leaving right i'll go

get paid somewhere else so the nil the transfer portal the talent is spread out as good as it's been, the top teams will be the top teams because they have the most resources, the most talent, and they'll go into the transfer portal. And the teams that develop the best will continue to still be at the very top of college football. But I think this is who gets hot at the end, who stays healthy. And I can take a list of, I think, six or seven teams, and I feel good about it. So that, and that's happening at the same time, we have a 12-team playoff. So what you're telling me is like, you're not going to be surprised if at the end of this year, it's not Oregon. It's not Ohio State. It's not Georgia. It's

not Texas. It's actually somebody else. I don't be it Texas A&M or Miami that could go on a run and actually win the national title. I think you have the chance for that. I think in the end it's going to be more similar to the 14 playoff in the end because again, those teams, all those teams you just mentioned, like you watch Texas, your squad. And when they have recruiting days, like they got the Lambo's all in the parking lot for a reason, dog. Like they got them all out there because they got the money and they're going to spend it. They're going to get it. Sark's an elite offensive coordinator, offensive mind. They got a great staff.

They got a great D.C. Like, they're going to be there along with Georgia, along with Ohio State, along with Oregon. A&M, by the way, is going to continue to climb and rise because they have all those things. And now they got a coach that knows how to develop, knows how to develop toughness, play hard with Mike Elko. So I think they'll be a team that will continue to rise as well.

But it'll be the same cast of characters. But I think it's more about who's hot late. Like, who stayed healthy? and you've seen it with Quinn Eurs. He's been banged up. Like Arch Maining came in and was able to save him in several situations. Like who stays healthy throughout the season of those teams? Real quick, David, how big of an indictment is that of Jimbo Fisher?

I mean, it's basically Jimbo Fisher's roster, and it was always underperforming, and now Mike Elko is overperforming. And it's weird to kind of have this conversation because, I mean, Jimbo's a national championship level coach. When Texas A&M went, and spent all that money on Jimbo, nobody really said, well, that's idiotic, you know?

He was considered one of the top, what, three to five guys in the country. It's just kind of weird now to go, no, he was actually the problem it looks like by process of elimination. The only thing you've changed is to bring in Mike Elko. Yeah, and when I went to practice with Jimbo and their teams, man, and you're like, dude, dude, dude,

like all the guys that they had, you know, the five-star guys that they had, started accumulating. And again, endless resources, you know, you're in Texas. Like, well, money's a little, a little different. Okay. Like that, that hundred million you find underneath the couch cushion is a little different than you do over here where we're at. Okay. I mean, that's just, and so they have that. They have great fan base. They have a great environment. So they're, they had great players there already. And now you take a coach and Mike Elko that was developing a team at Duke. Like he was taking guys and making them better than

they were. So now you take really good guys that the roster started. backs up with everybody in college football and you can go take those guys and develop. Yeah, I think you have a rocket ship. It's a huge indictment. Like, we all talked about it all the time. Their culture was the problem. Like, it was a me culture. It was a eye culture.

And, you know, Jimbo, I think Jimbo's a good dude. I think he was a good mind. But the game changes. And you've seen Nick Saban adjust and you've seen some of these great coaches adjust. Like, you got to adjust. It's a different reign. Like, you go to practice with Jimbo. Like, he's going to get on you.

and he's going to call you everything under the sun. And some of these kids nowadays, man, they're not going to handle that as well as they used to. And I think so it's an evolution process for all coaches. All right, over to the NFL. Green Bay versus Detroit. Detroit is favored by three and a half. Green Bay is tough.

One week they look good. Actually, it's within, it's not even week to week. It's like half to half. Like Jordan loves a stud. Jordan loves not good. But I guess that should lead us. towards Detroit because they're pretty consistent week in and week out at this point.

So give me the lions, even in Lambo. I'll take the lines too. And I love Dan Campbell. I love everything about him. Like, he's a guy that I would want to play for in his demeanor, his personnel. Jared golf's playing unbelievable level. He's elite. Both backs going off Gibbs has

been getting more touches and you could tell. And I think Jordan Love still hurt. Like you watch him, you know, he scrambles last week and, you know, he's still grabbing at that knee. I think that makes a big difference. and who they are and what they are. All right, Cowboys, Falcons. All season long, Pollock, I've been fascinated by the Falcons.

I don't know. I just think this Kirk Cousins experiment, the talent they've got around him. I keep waiting for this thing to click. And it may be like it always has been with Kirk Cousins. Like, it may add up to, hey, yeah, playoffs, first round, second round, tops, playoffs. But this roster is really good.

And things are really not good in doubt. Dallas. Falcons are favored, by the way, by two and a half. That's not something we start. We'd say before the season. The Falcons are favored over the Cowboys by two and a half. Listen, Dallas has problems. I mean, they can't run the football. They don't even try most of the time. And then, Dak, the last week got CD going a little bit, but their number two guys been Tolbert and Cook's been out and Ferguson's consistent. I just, their defense is banged up to crud. Listen, I know they're banged up like crazy, but they're very ungood and the falcons defense is actually somewhat solid and way better than they were in the

past and i trust the weapons like if dac had those weapons with drake london and bjohn robinson and uh even mooney who's way down the list and kyle pitts i think he'd be really great like i think he'd be putting up great numbers so i think the weapons are better for the falcons so give me the birds so if you take the falcons what is that puts the cowboys i believe at three and five at that point in the season. Like, does, I know, at some point the wheels shoot off. Like, do you think Mike McCarthy is the coach at the end of the season for the Cowboys? Is Bill Belichick ready to get back in?

Because, God, that makes a lot of sense, doesn't it? I mean, with Jerry Jones and desperation, like, he wants to win a championship. And when he talks about his coach, he, he's pretty fair. And he doesn't always blame the coach. But at some point, man, like, like, and here's what stinks. if you're a cowboy fan, you've wasted like Dax's rookie contract that was so good. And then you wasted C.D.'s rookie contract that was so good. And now you've paid them so much. You're in the process right now of wasting Micah Parsons contract, which is below what it will

ever be because he's going to get paid. And so you've seen young guys that they've developed and drafted pretty well, but bringing it together, something's wrong. Keeping it healthy, something's wrong. Defensively continues always every year to be something wrong. So at some point, Jerry Jones and his patience will not last. You think Bill Belichick's having too much fun, like on TV? Last year, of course, we would have said, no, no, no, he'll maybe take a year. He'll go and then he'll come back to coach. I don't know.

Once you kind of settle into a different life, maybe you don't want to do it again. I wonder if Belichick would saddle up with Jerry Jones. He's smiling more. I mean, he's definitely smiling, telling stories, and him and Nick Bull, which is crazy because they were both mentors with each other or worked with each other for all those years and started out and used to drive and meet and bring tape to watch tape together and grow and get better. And now they're like, hmm, this media life ain't bad. But I don't know, man. When you're a coach, like, you know, those guys, those guys have that itch and that competitive nature that I think they want to get back in. And if if you give enough zeros, which we know that the Cowboys can do, I think we, I think we'll see Belichick back. final game, Tampa Bay versus Kansas City. Kansas City is favored by eight and a half. I'm going to take Tampa.

I think last week was the Prove it game. Can Tampa score? Can they do well without Chris Godwin and Mike Evans? And the answer was yes, they did. And this is not the Chiefs of the past. This is not the Chief's team that has thrown up a lot of points. They got a good defense, so maybe they'll keep Tampa Bay from scoring. But eight and a half is a lot in the NFL, and Tampa's good.

Yeah, I guess I need to disagree with you on something. so I'll go KC, but not, not, definitely not confidently. I like what I saw from Baker. Baker's been a baller this year, dude. Like last year and this year, Baker, like as many people have wanted to retract and hate, like he lost God when he lost Evans like you talked about. And then all of a sudden, Kate Auden looks like a superstar.

And now you got McMillan at receiver and throw into White and Bucky Irving. Two running back. They're just spreading it around. And he's, he's shown, and listen, he's still going to make mistakes. Yeah, you saw the Ravens game, you know, Red Zone interception. mistakes he'll continue to do. But you got to like their defense, they're physical. And the chiefs, man, I mean, been beat up like crazy at wide receiver and they're still not super explosive. But gosh, dang, man. Patrick Mahomes. Like, he just does it. And it doesn't matter.

It reminds you of Brady back in the day, doesn't it? Like, oh, who's playing receiver, Edelman? And Edelman's solid. He's good. And who's the other guys? Well, okay, get first down, touchdown, game on the line. He'll go down and do it. Like, they played 17 running backs. Pacheco is probably going to get back. DeAndre Hawkins is probably going to get more interwoven in the offense. And so give me the chiefs. I'll give the points. I don't know why, but I'll give them. I do like the NFC South this year. I like the bucks. I like the Falcons. All right. I also like David Pollock. I think you're going to like his book, The Won't Quit Kid. He's now out. He's free. He's on his own from ESPN. And he's written the book,

The Don't Won't Quit Kid. He's always welcome here, David, on the Will Kane Show. Appreciate it, brother. There you go. I hope you enjoyed that conversation with David Pollock. I will see you again next time. on the Amazon music app. It is time to take the quiz. It's five questions in less than five minutes.

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