Will Cain Country - DeSantis Is Out! Haley Still Standing For Now

Episode Date: January 22, 2024

Story #1: What went wrong for Florida Governor Ron DeSantis? Story #2: A lunch hour panel with the New York Post’s Ryan Glasspiegel and author Connor Boyack. Have we overestimated the size of MAGA? Is sports just bread and circuses designed to distract us from what really matters? Story #3: Who is the most tortured fan base in the NFL? Is it the Buffalo Bills? Are the Dallas Cowboys sneaking up the ranks?   Tell Will what you thought about this podcast by emailing [e-mail]   Follow Will on Twitter: @WillCain Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

One, what went wrong for Ron DeSantis. Two, have we overestimated the size of MAGA? And is sports bred in circus designed to distract us from what really matters in the country? Our panel at lunch break. Three, who's the most tortured fan base in the NFL? Is it the Buffalo Bills? It is the Will Cain Show streaming live at foxnews.com and at YouTube at Fox News page. Also, the Fox News Facebook page, and always on demand on video, at Will Kane Show on YouTube,

and in audio format, wherever you get your podcast, at Apple, Spotify, or at Fox News podcast. Welcome to you live today from New York City. There are some things I still like about the metropolis that is New York City. I like walking around. I like hitting the streets, even though this morning I found some type of femur in the middle of a street grate. It wasn't, I believe, a human femur, unless it was that of a giant. It looked probably like a bovine, a cattle piece of fiend. which makes you wonder what's going on, New York City. I sat in a bar last night watching

Chiefs and Bills. On Saturday night, I sat in a bar with Pete Hagseth, my Fox and Friends Weekend co-host, watching Ravens Texans. And I think there's still something awesome about that communal environment. It's nice to sit on your couch. It's nice to watch a game in a comfortable environment. It's also nice to sit next to a dude in a Zubaz hat. You remember the Zubaz zebra print and NFL colors, sat next to a dude in a Buffalo Bill's Zubaz hat, living through every moment the ups and the downs of Josh Allen, of his Buffalo Bills. I also had probably the best onion rings that I've had in quite some time, which takes me back to a debate I've had with my sons on numerous occasions.

How do you rank this? French fries, tater tots, onion rings. I'm a big believer that anyone that selects French fries as number one has settled for mediocrity in life. They are not shooting for the stars. They are not aiming for the fences. You got to go for a home run. And when you hit a home run, it is with the onion ring. And then this morning, before I came in, I had what I think is one of the best parts of New York City. Just a diner. Nothing special. Not a foodie. Two eggs over medium. Bacon. Browns, ketchup, Chalula, all layered on top of each other. There are still some things to like about New York City. There's not much left to like about the future of Florida governor

Ron DeSantis. That takes us to. Story number one. What went wrong with Ron DeSantis? Ron DeSantis, the extremely successful governor from Florida, has bowed out of the presidential race. He has suspended his presidential campaign and endorsed Donald Trump. He was at one point, if not a frontrunner, a serious contender for president of the United States. So what went wrong for Ron DeSantis? There is a belief in politics that you have to strike when it is your moment. And coming out of the pandemic, coming out of 2020, it certainly looked like it was the moment for Ron DeSantis. Combined with his own popularity in success as the governor of Florida, there was some growing sentiment out there that the country and perhaps even the Republican Party was looking to move on from Donald Trump.

That turned out to not be the case. And it makes you wonder, what's the future for Ron DeSantis? And what's the future for Make America great again? Is it 2028? I don't happen to believe that the prospects are bright for Ron DeSantis. What went wrong? Was it Donald Trump or was it Ron DeSantis? Now, first of all, Donald Trump is a problem for any political candidate. Donald Trump is a force, a power. And the minute there was even consideration, a no comment from Ron DeSantis, it drew the full ire. It put a bull's eye target on Ron DeSantis. You immediately saw the nicknames. You saw Ron DeSanctimonious. And when Donald Trump is coming at any politician, almost invariably, there is a withering of his opponent, of anyone standing in the way of Donald Trump.

I, for one, am ready to put this tribalism behind us. The online Trump versus DeSantis war hopefully will find some amicable ending. In fact, Donald Trump sat down with Fox and Friends Lawrence Jones, and he went pretty far now in saying, this civil war is over. Listen. And I had some fun with it because I watched somebody who was not. in the race and all of a sudden he was in the race and then he did a good job as governor so i was happy with that but i was disappointed when they asked him whether or not he'd run and he said i have no comment because to me when you say no comment that means you're running

and we took it uh i think i took it quite seriously and it doesn't matter now because he uh got out so that's watered under the bridge now between totally as far as i'm concerned look he endorsed me you know he endorsed me and i we have policies very similar actually i think Those people will all come to me. That's water under the bridge. I'll take a moment and just compliment my Fox and Friends co-host, Lawrence Jones. Lawrence did an incredible job with that interview with Donald Trump. It's one of the more difficult interviews.

It is among the most intimidating interviews, interviewing Donald Trump. It's unpredictable. It's hard to wrangle control of the direction or questions of the conversation. Lawrence was poised. He was calm. He was confident. And he pushed back on occasion. And I think also drew out aspects of Donald Trump.

I just can't give enough credit to Lawrence Jones. But Donald Trump says it's water under the bridge. And I hope that that's the case for many who've been on both sides of this Republican civil war. You know, everyone seems to think everything is advocacy. I do my best to try to analyze. It doesn't mean I don't have my opinions or things that I hope are the outcome. But all too often we confuse analysis with cheerleading, with wishful thinking. If you say, I don't think the prospects are bright for Ron DeSantis, it's assumed you don't like Ron DeSantis.

I think Ron DeSantis is one of the most popular and effective conservative governors of the last several decades. in the United States, I think Ron DeSantis is an incredible politician. I think what he has accomplished in Florida in turning a purple state red in saving that state's economy when it came to COVID, in pushing back on the woke agenda, and standing up to strong corporations like Disney is not just admirable, but it is a model for any future governor with a backbone. And that in and of itself is all too rare. That is not a common quality. And I think that would have lent itself to a very effective president. But I think that the future for Ron DeSantis, not as a bit of cheerleading or wishful thinking,

but as analysis, analysis, by the way, which I hope is wrong, is that what stands in the way of Ron DeSantis is less Donald Trump and more Rondasantis. It's more about the size and scope and future of MAGA and the personality of Ron DeSantis. Now hanging out with the crew here on the Will Cain show this morning, young James pushed back on me. He thinks, no, no, no, he thinks the future is right. It is strong for Ron DeSantis. Young James, why do you think that I'm wrong?

Yeah, so I would say three main points on it. First, the numbers, his approvals are still high within the Republican Party. Our numbers show that the base of Republicans is still 85, 15 MAGA, and that's a conservative of estimate. Also, all of the Trump voters' second choice is still DeSantis. So despite all the hitting, it really hasn't heard him that hard. Two, I think we really overplay this missed the moment thing because of Chris Christie. I don't think Chris Christie was ever going to overtake a Republican Party. Reagan ran in 68 and 76 before 1980. And then the third point is his personality. We're saying he's not going to pass the beer test. But I think with Donald

Trump, it kind of showed that we're looking more for a fighter as opposed to who is going to, who can have a beer with. All right. I think that your points are well taken. Here's what I would say in response. I'm not convinced, I believe, the polling that every single Donald Trump voter would have gone to Ron DeSantis. You cannot, secondarily, overestimate the power of the personality of Donald Trump. Anyone who's ever been in Donald Trump's presence, and this is, again, not cheerleading. This is not wishful thinking. This is, I believe, coal-hearted analysis. Anyone who's ever been in Donald Trump's presence knows you were around Donald Trump. And it has, it is a magnet. It has appeal. It has clearly pulled a great number of

people to Donald Trump. And quite clearly, that isn't present for Ron DeSantis. And then finally, what I'm concerned about, and this is where I was hopeful for Ron DeSantis, is that his rise represented the idea that the Republican Party could move in a direction that, that, you know, that lived beyond Donald Trump, that was more populous, more concerned with the middle class, less interested in foreign wars. And with Ron DeSantis, I don't know, besides Vivek Ramaswamy, that there is another inheritor of MAGA. And we underestimate that there is still a strong percentage of the Republican base that is what we would call old school. Republican. Nikki Haley represents that wing of the Republican Party. This is the part of the

party that wants to punch somebody in the mouth who is not afraid of a foreign war, who is interested in being the world's superpower and that superpower being defined by military might. There is still a segment of the Republican Party that because of our embrace of capitalism is somewhat callous to the plight of the middle class. And I think you see the success of candidates outside of MAGA, lower down the ticket at other levels of government that shows you the entire party has not moved toward MAGA. And as opposed to Donald Trump, again, not cheerleader, wishful thinking, but cold-hearted analysis, I don't meet many people who have been around Ronda Santis who see that same

magnetism towards his personality. So that makes me think the problem is less Donald Trump and more Ronda Sampis. And by the way, Nikki Haley doesn't simply represent old school Republican. At this point, I would say that Nikki Haley is the best candidate for Democrats. All the polls suggest Joe Biden has real problems against Donald Trump. And the prospect of replacing Joe Biden at this point with a Gavin Newsom or a Michelle Obama become tougher by the day. In New Hampshire, we're seeing independence go to the Republican primary. We're seeing Democrats turn out the Republican primary to vote for Nikki Haley.

Why wouldn't you? She represents a lot of what we now see is the Democrat Party. She's interested in war. She's somewhat at times antagonistic to free speech. And most importantly, most importantly, she seems willing to cave to the whim of the mob. What I mean by that is if the moment of our culture requires you to say that everything is racist, then she will believe and say that that was a noose in the garage of Bubba Wallace. She will not be strong if everybody says a woman can be a man. I believe that she will give in if it is the whim of the mom. And because of all those things, she becomes actually, I think, the best candidate for Democrat, regardless of what party is sitting next to her name.

But whether or not Donald Trump is present in an election, I simply, I wish, I hope this is not the case. But I think it is the case that the future and the problem for Andesantis is not Donald Trump. but that it is Ron DeSantis. Let's dig into whether or not we have overestimated the size of MAGA inside of the Republican Party. And whether or not sports is bread and circus. It's the Colossim designed to distract us from what really matters in this country. That's coming up with our panel today during lunch break. It is time to take the quiz.

It's five questions in less than five minutes. We ask people on the streets of New York City to play along. Let's see how you do. Take the quiz every day at thequiz.com. Then come back here to see how you did. Thank you for taking the quiz. Listen to the all-new Brett Bear podcast featuring Common Ground. In-depth talks with lawmakers from opposite sides of the aisle,

along with all your Brett Bear favorites like his All-Star panel and much more. Available now at Fox Newspodcasts.com or wherever you get your podcasts. How we overestimate the size of MAGA for Republicans, and is sports simply bred and circus designed to distract us from the real problems in the country? It is The Will Cain Show streaming live at Fox News.com and on YouTube at the Fox News page. Always available on demand in video at YouTube, the Will Cain Show, and in audio format, wherever you get your audio entertainment at Apple, Spotify, or at Fox News podcast. Let's bring in our crew at lunch break. Ryan Glassbeagle is a sports and entertainment reporter at the New York Post, and Connor Boyack is the founder of the Libertas Institute.

He's the author of the Tuttle Twins series and executive producer of the Tuttle Twins TV show. His most recent book is Mind Wars, Avoiding Deception in the Age of Manipulation, which is currently available for pre-order. Fellows, glad to have you on the show. Ryan, we go back a few years, and I'm familiar with your social media, and you know I've also had many private conversations, so I know that you're a connoisseur of bar food. I started out with a ranking, Ryan, of onion rings, tater tots, and french fries. And I'm pre-disappointed with what I think your answer will be, but you've got to rank those one through three for me.

Well, it's definitely onion rings last, for whatever reason. I don't like cooking. onions. I like raw onions. But for tater tots and french fries, the answer is it depends because the best french fries are better than the best tater tots. But I think the average tater tauts could be like if you're going to get like, you know, big potatoy steak wedges, tater tots are better than those. But if you're going to get, you know, really good Cajun style curly fries, I'd way rather those than tater tots. Your analysis is horrific, Ryan. I saw Connor already pointing thumbs down. Here's why he's wrong, Connor.

The greatest variance among the three is the onion ring. It can easily land and last. A bad onion ring is third for sure. But the best of onion rings runs away with it. And I'm afraid that Ryan doesn't have high enough aspirations. You've got to shoot for the fences. You've got to try to hit a home run. Because if you hit a home run with an onion ring, it's a runaway number one.

Tater tots, too. And it's just the safe play to go with a french fry, Connor. Well, and I also like being able to go home to my wife at the end of the day and tell her that I ate my vegetables. So with onion rings, I get the best of both worlds, good flavor and a happy wife, which makes a happy life. There we go. It has a corollary in breakfast food for what it's worth, the French toast waffle pancake debate, and the French toast is the onion ring of the breakfast debate. I mean, a bad French toast is bad, but a great French toast runs away with number one. The pancake is the French fry.

It's just sort of, why are you settling for doubles? Go for a triple, try to hit a home run. Connor, let's start with this. I am fascinated, not just with what went wrong for Ron DeSantis, but I am fascinated with whether or not there's been a general overestimation of the direction and repositioning of the Republican Party. I truly try to separate what I want from what I believe to be true, and I want to see a Republican Party that is more attuned to populist instincts.

who's less interested in foreign wars and more interested in the plight of the middle class. But the presence of Nikki Haley and the political offices being won across the country. And by the way, the failure of Ron DeSantis in some part makes me think, if there were no Donald Trump, I'm not sure the country would pursue the ideology of Make America Great Again. I don't think that's wrong. I think there's a lot of internal confusion in the Republican Party. right now. I think a lot of these voters don't really understand what they stand for. And that's a symptom, I believe, of the way that our political process is structured. Oftentimes, these elections are more a referendum on the other guy than your own. And people stand more firmly against that with which they disagree than they stand for their own guy or their own gal. And of course, candidates who are, let's say, poor in quality or track record are all too willing to shine a spotlight on their opponent. perceived liabilities and problems, and then just simply present themselves as a solution without having to have that spotlight come upon them.

So we can analyze through that framework, DeSantis or Trump or Haley or anybody, but I think ultimately this comes down to the fact that many Republican voters really do not have any internal philosophical consistency about the positions that they have, the beliefs that they have, they ebb and flow with social trends and with the demagoguery of politics. So is MAGA strong? Well, I think in part it's strong because it's in the zeitgeist and Trump is pushing it. But I think you're right. In the absence of Trump, I think people's attention drifts elsewhere. It gets pulled elsewhere. And because they don't stand firmly in any particular principle or political philosophy, they're allowing themselves to be led by other people down these paths. Well, I think so I appreciate part of your analysis. I think human nature is such that it's just easier to say what you're against than what you are for, which is. odd, Ryan, because I think a positive message in anything in religion, in sports, in politics, a positive message is, and it is, I think, inherently and over the long term, more attractive than a negative message, but it's easier to formulate negativity. It's easier to distinguish

I know what I don't like than to stand firmly with what I do like. And the one thing, Conor, that I don't like what you had to say, and you're a libertarian, Connor, and here's the thing libertarianism is it's very wedded to ideology. And ideology is not bad, especially when you put it in terms of principle. I'm a big believer in principle. But I think you also have to be able to adapt to reality. And that's always the failing of libertarianism, I believe, is to have your positive vision focused on some type of free utopian future, but not recognize reality. And I want an electorate and a leadership willing to approach the world with humility. Oh, here's where I'm might have been wrong. Here's where the principles might not be delivering. And this is what the populist moment of republicanism represents to me. It may have been flow. It may get some things wrong. But it's trying to see what its principles effect is on reality. Ryan, I'll let you jump in on any of that that you feel compelled. Well, I mean, in terms of like kind of what the future is, it's so unknowable because 10 years ago, who would have predicted that Donald Trump would

become the face of the Republican Party. So maybe there is somebody in this MAGA camp, so to speak, who hasn't shown himself or herself to be, you know, a political frontrunner yet. But I would say that the people kind of overruled the central GOP in installing Trump as the candidate, both in 2016 and now, whereas the Central Democratic Party was able to kind of voice its own leader in the last two or three elections. And so it is fascinating to see where it goes from here. And it's kind of boring to say we don't know, but it goes back to your point about humility, which is kind of like nobody really knows anything on this. Yeah, the Democrats rejected the populist rebellion inside their party. That was Bernie Sanders. And they ensured that it would be Hillary Clinton and then it

would be would be Joe Biden. Let me go back to you, Ryan. And I want you guys to be able to respond to each other as well, so feel free at times. Part of this also is it's a little bit as though we're in the moment of destruction. And what I like about this moment of destruction within republicanism is it is destroying sort of the crackerjack box, this is what you are if you are a Republican moment, where it's more introspective, more wandering, more open to other ideas. Media has been that way, Ryan, the editor of the Wall Street Journal said at the World Economic Forum, we don't control the news anymore. And that is absolutely true. And you and I are both in sports media, Ryan. Sports media is in its moments of destruction. You know, ESPN has been in a

constant sort of slow crumbling. I'm not here to predict dire circumstances, but like, because there's good business in a melting glacier, you know, a melting iceberg. It's going to be around for a while. But my point is what's been lost with ESPN hasn't been replicated with another brand. other brands have not stepped up. All we've seen is the fracturing of it and more independence and smaller people and less control, as is the accurate analysis from the Wall Street Journal. Yeah, I think it's going to come down to, at least in sports media and probably political media as well, is people are going to gravitate towards these individual personalities as opposed

to this centralized brand. So when we were growing up, there were only 40 or 50 channels, and ESPN was the only one that had sports talk and highlights on all day. And so if you wanted that stuff, you could either read the newspaper or if you wanted it in real time, you had to get it from ESPN. But I was in a barbershop yesterday, and they were talking about how their favorite show is it is what it is with Mason Cameron. And if you, like, see what they talk about, like, and just compare that to ESPN. I mean, like, they're doing segments where they're making fun of Dwayne Wade for painting his nails. And, like, the idea that you would ever see that on some, you know, big sports network is unfathomable. But they're reaching, you know, a big swath of people that hadn't been served this type of conversation before.

Real quick on that, Connor, before you jump in, hey, Ryan, I saw, you know who's making a similar, argument on X is Cole Beasley, former Dallas Cowboy, former Buffalo Bills, wide receiver. He pointed out he didn't think it's right for dudes to be painting their nails, which by the way I happen to agree with. I'm not looking to make it illegal. I'm just saying dudes shouldn't paint their nails. And he got crushed on X. Everybody's like, oh, you know. And that's where I think X has this like outsized influence on what we think is the right position to hold in media because I think

Cole Beasley is right down the middle with that. I don't think most dudes are walking around going cool nail polish but on X

they're going to make him seem like a dinosaur because he's not open to nail painting. By the way Connor that's probably like

that's just people trying to push the limits like tattoos have become tattoos have almost become you know par for the course like too many

it's not rebellious anymore to have a tattoo, so we're looking for the next thing, and I guess that's nail painting. Well, I think, was it yesterday the day before when DeSantis declared that he dropped out? Where did he announce it? He went to X. Increasingly, these social platforms are the means through which people are communicating with the outside world going around the media institutions, who they know are going to only report on a tiny, limited portion of whatever has said.

They're going to spin it however they want. And so now it puts the traditional media outlets, rightly so, I think, importantly, on the defense so that they have to be more reflective of the actual truth and narrative because they know that the toothpaste is out of the tube that people are just giving their full messages or their, you know, all the news right on platforms like X. So I'm actually bullish on the future of media. It is going to take quite a different form than it has in the past with these centralized institutions, these gatekeepers of information, these authority figures like Fauci who

declared that they are science and that they represent truth. Instead, it's going to be decentralized. Does that come with challenges? Absolutely. Think of AI and deep fakes and people are going to get duped all over the place. But while there's challenges, I think there's a ton of opportunity. And I'm actually excited for the future of media because I think it'll be harder for the elite, we'll call them, to get away with various shenanigans and try and manipulate us. Oh, I'm the same. I'm so bullish on this new world helping us understand the truth. While everybody is hyperventilating about misinformation and disinformation, this is the past. to the truth. And I think the best way to think about that is not through the lens of the present or even the future, but think about it through the lens of the past. I was walking in this morning in New York, and I had to walk through Midtown where there's various Broadway plays. And there is a, the billboards out front for Gutenberg, which stars like Josh

Gad. The billboards said it will rewrite history, every word of it. And it's a, it's a It's a pun talking about, I'm sure, the printing press and Gutenberg. But then I just started thinking, like, what is history? History, like, do you think, how accurate do you think we understand history? Because history's written by the victors. In the past are very few people who got to define history, those that got access to the distribution platform, and they wrote a story. They gave us a story of the past, which we have internalized as the truth.

And imagine if there were a thousand different points of view. or stories to tell about the past, how different it would be, history. And that's what's happening in the present. We're getting a thousand different stories, Connor. And I think that because of that, through process of elimination, we can actually arrive at a better understanding of truth about the present and the future. I think you're exactly right. We actually just published a telethwins book called The Guide to True Conspiracies, where

every chapter is a different instance of just massive corruption, fully documented, unquestioningly accurate. And what was fascinating for us about doing that book was here are all these examples of history, as you mentioned, where kids in their social studies class are not being taught any of this, are you going to expect a government school to teach kids about the corruption and problems of government throughout history so as to help them develop the critical thinking to make sure that they don't blindly trust the government in the future? Well, no, of course the government isn't going to do that, which is why we did our book

and why others are on this quest as well to spread the truth. But you're right, history is a narrative, and it allows those in power to bury their misdeeds and misdirect people's attention and concoct this story that everyone just believes because they believe the authoritative source from which it came. Again, another reason I think to be bullish, because that is going to be much harder in the future to do where information is democratized and those in power are going to have a harder time controlling the narrative. Ryan? Yeah, it's going to be tricky. But I got to say, I don't feel envious of future historians who are going to be parsing through millions of tweets and trying to figure out what's true and what's untrue and what's like, you know, a celebration of a Packers touchdown and how to, you know, parse all of these things

out. There's going to be a lot of confounding noise. And just, you know, to your point earlier, Connor, where you were talking about how hard it's going to be to figure out what, like, you know, people are. are making these Trump videos and you really got to think and figure out, is that actually him or is it AI? And I don't even know, like, if this stuff gets better on a curve, the way technology is already kind of improved throughout our life, it's just going to get harder and harder to figure out what's true and what's not. So, Ryan, we want to take a minute here and

congratulate you. Last week, last week, you welcome to a new member of the Spiegel family. What's her name? We did. Her name is Jordy. She joins Frankie and Effie. There we go. Jordy, Frankie, and Effie. Okay, I didn't just want to congratulate you. I wanted to bring this up. I saw at foxnews.com that some names, I'm always fascinated by baby names, that some names that have been very popular for the past, I guess it would be 10, 15, 20 years have just gotten crushed in the popularity rankings. And there are most of them that end in some form of like Aden, Aiden itself, Brayden, Caden. I think the names themselves who end in in are getting crushed, you know, like Jackson, whatever, whatever was the trend a good 10 years ago have just getting crushed in the rankings.

And I'm always fascinated by the fact that we all think we're pioneering some unique name. And if you look back five years later, we're just part of the masses. I mean, they always end up, like, they always end up in the group that is the most popular of that time, you know. And the ones that were popular in the cycle before, like, you meet any little Jennifer's anymore? No, because they were all born in the ages. I couldn't believe that Amanda is biting the dust from that list on Fox News. You knew. Yeah.

And by the way, the name that kills me, so the only thing you can do, and I'm curious how you arrived at your names, the only thing you can do is just stick with classical names. everybody working on the Will Kane show, Dan, James, Patrick, Will, classical names. Those will stand the test of time, but I'm a little bit concerned about John. I just don't meet me little John's running around. I haven't either, now that you mention it in either of my kids' classes. There is a Jackson, though, and they said that one was going away. So I guess they bucked the trend. As far as how we came up with the name, it had to be something that ended in,

i.e. to match the other two. And so that kind of limits the playbook, so to speak. What we were thinking about like Stevie, as in Stevie Nix, but with all, with, at least we had our first born. We had her name picked out before she came because she was named after my grandmother. But after that, it kind of my wife looks the baby in the eyes and tries to study it. And she decided our second one was Effie. This time, I got a little bit of input. But I turned down Josie. I like Josie. I liked Jordy.

It was like no disrespect, but it was like right after Jordan. She mentioned Jordy, and it was right after Jordan Love had carved up your cowboys. Plus, it also got the Jordy Nelson connection with the backers. And so when she said that, I was like, okay, yes, that's it, Jordy. And it didn't quite work as well against the Niners. but I still feel that the future is bright, both for baby Jordy and for Jordan loves green. Well, I liked the name before you gave me your explanation.

I like Josie, by the way, outlawed Josie Wales. Connor, you have kids? Will, all I'm hearing from you is that the Will Kane show is not meeting its DEI quota of having diversity in the names of people on your team. That's too boring. You need to be more inclusive. I'm coming from Utah, which holds, you know, the award for the weirdest most unique names.

We get stuff like, you know, Brailin, Cyri, McCaady, Queston, Caden's, Tague. Like, there's all these weird names that I don't know what it is in the water in Utah. Yeah. Is this a woman thing? I mean, are these? No, I don't know. I don't think it has anything to do with that. It's just some weird cultural thing that people have latched on to here.

So I got two kids. They have one's Keaton and one is Linnea. Linnea in particular is the name of the Swedish. flower, the national flower. My wife lived there for a couple years as a missionary. Yeah. And so I thought Linnea was beautiful. But I like being unique. I like funny, silly names. I was named, you know, Connor after a John Connor from The Terminator. Really? Wow.

After the, that's a first. I've never heard somebody named. I was named after the Terminator. You know, I've got a Charlie and I've got a West. And they're both family names. That's That's how we did that, both multiple generation names. I wanted to, I'll start with you on this, Connor. My co-host, Fox and Friends on the weekend, Rachel Campos Duffy, who is a font of wisdom, isn't always wise, on her podcast from the kitchen table, which you should check out is right here at Fox News podcast. She had her daughter Avita Duffy on, and they started talking about sports. they started talking about sports, in essence, being one big distraction that it's bread and circus. Here, listen to Avita Duffy on the From the Kitchen Table podcast.

Imagine if all of the men who put all of their time and energy into caring about football and what some players who they don't even know were really care about do on a field for, I don't know, however long a football game is, once a week, imagine if all that time and energy spent on that game was spent caring about what's happening in the world, right? What's happening to your schools? What's happening at the border? What's happening to our economy? What's happening to our election integrity?

Imagine if the men and the masculine energy that they pour and just organized sports went into things that really mattered. So I'm going to disagree with the both of you. This is not mutually exclusive. You can love football. You can love sports and you can still love your country. You can be a man who's like, you know, go pack, go, you know, and you can go out in your t-shirt and, you know, zero-degree weather and express your masculinity and still care about the country. So, Connor, I don't know how big of a sports fan you are, but what do you think about this idea that sports is bred in circus designed to distract us or, if not designed, in effect, does distract us from the things that really matter in the U.S.

The girl's name was Evie. Did I hear that right? Vita. Vita. Sorry. Okay. So I totally agree with Vita because the gentleman who commented after I think got it wrong because she wasn't talking about that they can't love their country or care about their country, which was his defense, that you can love football and you can also love your. She wasn't saying that you can't hold to interest.

She was saying that the energy being spent on sports, watching them, watching them. in person, watching them at home, reading news about them, talking to your friends about them, participating in little fantasy football leagues and everything else. The energy that people are expending, I think what Vita was getting at is that that is energy that is not being harnessed and applied towards more productive uses. I'm not a sportsball fan with all due concessions to my co-panelists here who might be. Not that I have anything particularly against sports, but I do think one challenge that we have as a society when it comes to sports is that they are extremely tribalistic. You look at parents decking other parents

at a little league game. You look at high school, you know, rivals trying to, you know, harm people on another campus just because, you know, they play for the enemy. And I think this does contribute to the hyper, tribalistic, partisan nature of our political society. And I do think they bleed over, which is one concern that I do have. I hate your take, Connor. And I'm going to tell you why, before I let Brian also weigh in. You're getting thumbs down everywhere right now. I'm telling you the control room is full of thumbs down. You've got to have someone like me on to make it interesting.

Absolutely. But it's not just that I hate it. It's you couldn't be more wrong. Here's the thing. Let's address tribalism to start. I have thought a lot about sports and life and theories in the country. And I have a take, of course, on tribalism. and I believe that tribalism is natural to the human existence.

We are tribal. It's the ultimate survival mechanism. We used to create tribes based upon geography. We sometimes created tribes based upon race. We often created tribes based upon religion. We have always created tribes. There's too big of a modern day tendency to create tribes around your political belief, around your ideology. I happen to think that is a somewhat malignant form of tribalism.

Sports is a benign outlet for tribalism. You're right, it's tribal, and I love it's tribalism. I love that Longhorns fans hate Sooners fans. I hate that Georgia Bulldogs fans hate Auburn Tiger fans. But the hate is only shallow. It's not real. It's not deep. Eagles fans and Cowboys fans aren't ready to go to war just on Twitter on Sunday.

And this is a healthy, cathartic thing for society. We need places to let the steam out of our tribal instinct. And this is a harmless version of tribalism. What more? To Evita's point and your point, Connor, I think that an overly politicized culture is an unhealthy culture. We don't need people sitting around all day, every day, pouring their energy into their partisan differences.

Now, I don't think you made the argument, and Evita's probably not making the argument that it all has to boil down to partisanship. There's many ways to be a great member of your community. You can go down to the local food bank. You can show up at a city council meeting. You can care about your school board. It doesn't all have to be Donald Trump versus Joe Biden. But I still think that it is sports represents a really healthy place in society where you come together and then you go to your separate corners.

You come together in a stadium. You come together over a television screen. And then you cathartically exercise your tribal instincts. I'm a big believer in the health of sports for America, Ryan. Yeah, no, to your point, like, as I said before, I'm a Packers fan. You go to Lambeau Field. Wisconsin has some of the most divisive Republican versus Democrat politics, maybe of any state, honestly.

They might be top because it's really split down the middle there. And you go in Lambo and there's a touchdown. And it doesn't matter if the person to your right or your left is like a different voter than you, you come together with a community. And so, like, we talked about earlier how negative news and negative commentary spreads a lot more than positivity, but I think that sports breeds community much more than it breeds the negative tribalism that we've been discussing. And, you know, it's just, yeah, it is a diversion and it is a distraction, but it would be replaced with another distraction. It's not Like, oh, I don't watch football anymore, so I'm going to spend all my time just being the best and most informed citizen I can be.

If you take away football, I'll just watch other scripted entertainment or read books or do Sudoku or something. You need to have an escape from kind of the stresses and sadness of day-to-day life because otherwise, how are you going to move forward? Connor? I would, you know, these are interesting points. And part of this is just fun to argue aside in its extreme to get a reaction like I have. It's not that sports are wrong. Sports does have great community team building aspects to it, you know, no doubt. And I think Ryan's right.

In the absence of sports, people's entertainment energies would be directed towards other use. I think the point that Avita is getting at and the point that I agree with is that I don't know of any statistical study this bears this out. They may exist. If you were to look at people who are very consumed with sports and determine what percentage of their free time is being spent on civic engagement at all, I would anticipate that it's quite low. And I would also theorize that those who aren't so consumed with their time are more likely to engage civically, not just to comment on X or Facebook and let off steam, but to actually productively do something in your community. We all only have a certain number of free hours in the day outside of work for family, for church, for community, for entertainment. And really, I think Avita's concern, if I'm reading between the lines and mine, is that it is bred in the circuses to the point where the elite, those in power, are okay with a society that is so heavily distracted so is not to pay attention to the problems that are going on and then hold them accountable. So sure, watch your football, go play sports, do all the things, but reserve a portion of your mental energy and your time.

Sports holding people accountable and engaging in the civic process so that you can balance things and not, you know, leave one in absentee it to go focus on the other. Yeah, I like to bring service. I do think sports are a little bit less popular than you might think. Like, you know, in the 90s, as I talked about before, scripted entertainment would crush football in the TV ratings. Way more people would watch Seinfeld and friends than an NFL or MLB or NBA game. Now, all of that stuff has migrated away towards, like, ad-free platforms.

And so we don't kind of see how many people are watching it compared to sports anymore. But, you know, 40 million people watched Packers-Niners, which is a ton. But that means more than seven-eighths of the country wasn't watching it. And that's one of the most popular sporting events of the year. And so, like, when you get on social media or you see people, wearing team gear. I think that like the people in the sports bubble might think that it's more emblematic of a monoculture than it actually is. Well, I want to say, Connor, I do like the point of bread and circus. I do believe that the elites are happy that the people will focus

on something besides what they're actually doing in power. Before we go, I wanted to bring this up with you, Connor, because I can't allow you to simply be aligned with the Duffies. Let me see if I can pitch you against the Duffies. This weekend on Fox and Friends, Rachel Campos Duffy said to me, the problem with libertarianism is it's totally untethered to any sort of moral compass and that freedom can only, as the founders envisioned, freedom can only really allow us to pursue virtue if we have a cultural fabric underneath freedom that ties us towards some vision or morality. She was talking about as religion, and there's no doubt the role that religion played in the founding of America. But the point is that that should lead you towards a bit more of a vision

that is conservative as opposed to libertarianism. And if you're totally untethered, you find yourself, you know, you can wake up one day and find yourself arguing that freedom should allow for children to transition or whatever it may be. That without the virtue of the cultural fabric underneath, it could actually let a society descend into some level of perversion. What do you say to the value of cultural conservatism underneath a free libertarian philosophy? I think part of the problem is that people expect a moral code to be derived from their political philosophy and from the government itself. Libertarians, the point that they take is that government is aggression. It is force, as George Washington himself said. As a very religious person

myself, I do believe that we need a cultural morality, that we do need to buy in society together through the golden rule and through all these things. I don't look to my government to be the arbiter or the purveyor or promulgator of that. Let's not forget Ronald Reagan once said that the heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism. Why would he say something like that? Yes, libertarians are doggedly principled. They are focused on saying, here is the role of government, leave culture, leave morality, leave society to people's own devices, to the market, the competition of ideas, right? You go handle that outside the scope of government. Government is really just the protection of our basic freedoms. The problem comes, I think, when we encumber

upon government, all these additional expectations, including to enforce morality at the point of gun against those who might disagree with us. I think the libertarian view is let's get out and leave that to the market. So just as an example, Connor, do you therefore then embrace the legalization of gambling? I'll reframe your question. Do I think the government should lock people in a cage who voluntarily choose to gamble? I do not. I don't participate in gambling. I think it's a vice. I think it's destructive. I think that's a place for our pastors at their pulpits and through market incentives to do that. I just don't think it's the role of government to, again, become that arbiter and go

fine people and lock them in jail because they voluntarily and through consent engaged in that activity. I hear you. And instinctually, philosophically, principally, I lean in your direction. I also think that when the government legalizes something, it doesn't mean it should mean this, but it does mean it's almost given its approval to something. If it's not illegal, then somehow we approve of that. And that shouldn't be the case. I'm not, I don't think that's the case, Connor. Just because something is legal doesn't mean it's it's right. It's just. It should be approved. But I'll end this with you, Ryan. On the way into the show today, I took a lap through the newsroom.

And I heard two separate conversations going on about sports gambling. One, a group of guys talking about, can you believe that Vegas always nails it? It was one and a half. And then another, a guy saying, I quit. And not only do I quit gambling, I'm going to be an advocate like Mothers Against Drunk Driving against gambling. I think that there is, I think there is. a little bit of gustow or

blinders on us going into this like we are legalizing gambling and I don't think we fully internalized or really thought about the effects of young men having a gambling device in their hands at all times and what the long-term ramifications

could be of sports gambling. Yeah. You know, when they did legalize it, I don't know if there was like the realization that every commercial break of every game, every sports talk show, and every non-sports talk show, for that matter,

was going to just be shoving, like gambling advertising in your face. And I'm someone who is in the favor of legalization of it. I'm somebody who spends a lot of time conceiving of my sports bets. You know, I would say to Conner's point that it's advice, it is. there is it's not impossible to win but i would also say that um something that these sports books shouldn't be allowed to do is to court the degenerate like problematic gamblers but not let the talented gamblers beat them um a lot of these books when somebody like beats them they just cut them off and don't let them bet with them anymore at least not for any like reasonable amount

of money. And I think if you're in the risk business and you're trying to soak, you know, degenerates, then you should have to take some risk yourself. Man, it was a fascinating conversation today. I really enjoyed you both. It's Ryan Glass-Begel. He's sports entertainment reporter at the New York Post and Connor Boyack, the founder of the Libertas Institute and the author of the Tuttle Twins series, an executive producer of the Tuttle Twins TV show. By the way, his new book, Mind Wars, Avoiding Deception in the Age of Manipulation, is currently available for pre-order. It's out. next month. Connor, Ryan, thank you. Thank you for having me well. Appreciate it.

All right. Who's the most tortured fan base in the NFL? Is it the Buffalo Bills? It's coming up on the Will Cain Show. I'm Janisteen. Join me every Sunday as I focus on stories of hope and people who are truly rays of sunshine in their community and across the world. Listen and follow now at Fox News Podcast.com. Who's the most tortured fan base in the NFL? Is it the Buffalo Bills? Wide right. Story number three.

The Buffalo Bills lost to the Kansas City Chiefs in the divisional round of the NFL playoffs once again with a familiar theme. Wide right. It didn't. all come down to kicker Tyler Bass, but in order to tie the game with a minute and a half to go, he missed with an 11 mile per hour wind wide right. I got a text from my son who has been JV and will soon be varsity punter and kicker saying, I feel bad for that kicker. I also

feel bad for that kicker's dad. Nothing harder than being a kicker's dad. But it's pretty hard to be a Buffalo Bills fan. This represents several years in a row. They cannot get over the hump that is Patrick Mahomes. And that's no big insult. Patrick Mahomes is on his way to being in the debate of greatest quarterback of all time. Every year that Patrick Mahomes has been a starter, he has been in the AFC championship game. The Kansas City Chiefs are a dynasty because of Patrick Mahomes. And that's a shame for Buffalo Bills fans who keep running into Mahomes and the Chiefs, because Josh Allen is really good. Now, Josh Allen also had some missed plays last night. But it's been a familiar theme for Allen and the Bills, losing in the

divisional round, losing to the Kansas City Chiefs. And it made me wonder about who is the most tortured fan base in the NFL. Now, if you remember one of the Batman movies, I can never remember Batman Begins, Batman Forever, I don't know, Christian Bale Batman movie, when he is put into the hole. You remember the jail that he's put into that has an open roof at the top, and it has that stair step that you can get out, and it has the theoretical ability to get out of the jail if you can make the leap, if you can make the climb and make the leap. And there was a line, and I'm not going to get it verbatim, so I'm going to paraphrase it, but the line was something to the extent of, there's no such thing as real despair

without a little bit of hope. Now, the point of that is you can resign yourself to despair and then hit a level of monotony. You can just say to yourself, this is the way it is, and we are a doormat. This is the way it is. I'm in prison. This is the way it is, and we are forever condemned to be bottom of the league. This is the way it is. I'm a fan of the New York Jets. That's what that level of existence is. And there's some level of resignation to being a fan of the Jets.

No, no, no. Real despair requires the existence of hope. It requires you to get close and to fail again and to. again. And there's a couple different franchises who now have represented true despair, failure, but with the prospect of hope. And I would humbly offer to you that I'm beginning to enter that phase as a fan of the Dallas Cowboys. You know, we rested our laurels a lot on eight Super Bowl appearances, five Super Bowl championships. But unless you were born in at least the 1980s, You have no memory of any of that success.

So any of that background is nothing but noise. Now, listen, I wasn't alive for the Cowboys Dynasties of the 70s, but they still were there in my thought process, in the background. I knew my rightful place in the hierarchy of the NFL. Then I got to live through it in the 90s. But that begins to fade. I mean, if you're a millennial, what if the Cowboys offered you but 8 and 8 or 12 and 4, 12, and 5 out in the divisional round of?

of the NFL playoffs, just enough hope to reinvest every year in Dak Prescott, to reinvest every year in Tony Romo, to reinvest in Bill Parcells or Mike McCarthy or Jason Garrett, the red-headed clapper. There's just enough every year to bring you back instead of resigning yourself to your place in the NFL. But the Cowboys probably, as much as they get off for enough hope for true despair, true torture as an NFL fan base, probably don't get in the top. two. History and present require us to acknowledge the Minnesota Vikings fan. And it's not just that I'm buddies with one with Pete Heggseth. I did sit at a bar with him this weekend. And he recounted to me in detail, burned into his memory the three NFC championship games they've

appeared in in the past, what is it, 10 plus years. No, 20. He talked about Dante Culpepper from 1998, 15 and 1, losing to the Atlanta Falcons, who went on to lose to the Denver Broncos. By the way, the Denver Broncos were a tortured fan base for many, many years until John Elway got over the hum in the mid-90s with Terrell Davis. The Cleveland Browns were a tortured fan base before they became Sad Sack. I mean, if you're a Cleveland Browns fan in the 80s or 90s with Bernie Kosar and Ernest Biner and Kevin Mack, you were good enough to get to the divisional round until you lost to John Elway and the Denver Broncos, who were just good enough to get to the Super Bowl several times

to lose to Joe Montana and the San Francisco 49ers. But the Minnesota Vikings have never got over that hump. It's Brett Fav. It's Case Keenum. It's Dante Culpepper into the NFC championship game and lost. And that's set against the historical backdrop of the Vikings from the 70s, who also went to, I believe it's four Super Bowls without ever winning. But they still only come in second because you take where a Buffalo Bills fan lives in the present, great quarterback, divisional round loss. And you put that against the historic background of four straight Super Bowls in the 90s and four straight Super Bowl losses to the Giants, wide right, to the Redskins, and twice to the Dallas Cowboys. and I think that is probably the most painful existence as a sports fan. They went into each one of those Super Bowls,

not just with a legitimate shot to win, but in a one or two of them as the favorites to win the Super Bowl. And they had just enough hope to feel true despair, to be the most tortured fan base in the NFL. I'm sorry, fans of the Buffalo Bills. That's going to do it for me today here on the Will Kane. show. We have a big special guest coming up. So big, I'm not allowed to tease it. Later this week, right here on the Will Kane Show. See you then.

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