Will Cain Country - Did This Far-Left Group Secretly Fund Right-Wing Extremists? (ft. Miranda Devine, Kayce Smith, & Bryan Hubbard)

Episode Date: April 23, 2026

Did This Far-Left Group Secretly Fund Right-Wing Extremists? (ft. Miranda Devine, Kayce Smith, & Bryan Hubbard)Story 1: For years, the Left has touted white supremacy as the greatest threat to America. It turns out they may have been the ones creating it. NY Post Columnist & Host of ‘Pod Force One’ Miranda Devine joins Will to examine the paper trail behind the Southern Poverty Law Center's (SPLC) indictment, which allegedly shows them moving millions of dollars into the pockets of the very groups they claim to oppose.Story 2: Ric Flair claims to have beaten Wilt Chamberlain’s “body count” record, but do the numbers add up? Barstool’s Kayce Smith helps Will & The Crew do the math, before previewing the first night of the NFL Draft.Story 3: Hailed as a “miracle drug” by some, Ibogaine has an uncanny ability to either reduce or completely eliminate opioid withdrawal symptoms in 80% of patients, so why has it been illegal since the 70s? CEO of Americans for Ibogaine Bryan Hubbard sits down with Will to break down Ibogaine’s legal history and medical applications in the wake of President Donald Trump’s announcement regarding the drug.Subscribe to ‘Will Cain Country’ on YouTube here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Watch Will Cain Country!⁠⁠⁠Follow ‘Will Cain Country’ on X (⁠⁠⁠@willcainshow⁠⁠⁠), Instagram (⁠⁠⁠@willcainshow⁠⁠⁠), TikTok (⁠⁠⁠@willcainshow⁠⁠⁠), and Facebook (⁠⁠⁠@silicanes⁠⁠⁠)Follow Will on X: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@WillCain⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The demand for racism exceeds the supply. There's just not enough white supremacy to keep in business, all the politicians, grievance industry, and so steps in the Southern Poverty Law Center to fund the Aryan Nation, to fund Unite the Right. With New York Post, Miranda Devine. Football Dork Holiday NFL nerd Christmas. It is today the NFL draft with Barstools, Casey Smith. And then finally, a surreal moment last Saturday, after together talking about for months,

Ibogaine to look up and see Joe Rogan and Brian Hubbard standing there in the Oval Office. Today, from the Oval Office to the set, Americans for Ibegain. President Brian Hubbard. It is Wilcane Country streaming live at the Willcane Country YouTube channel. The Wilcane Facebook page, always here. Just hit follow at Spotify or on Apple. We have a big show for you today with three guests. My old friend Brian Hubbard, who we could listen to read the phone book.

The sweet Southern drawl from Kentucky is here to tell us about a major victory. Just last Saturday, it was sitting in the parking lot of a rained, delayed, soccer game in Frisco, Texas, when my X algorithm confirmed a rumor that I've begun to hear that Joe Rogan, Brian Hubbard, Morgan and Marcus Latrell, and many others were standing there in the Oval Office as President Trump granted FDA approval for research and trials into Ibegain. I'm excited today that one of our guests will be Brian Hubbard, along with Casey Smith from Barstall on what is maybe my favorite sports day of the year. I'm a little tired. today because sports did bleed into this day from yesterday. I was up until almost one watching the

stars win in double overtime game three against the Minnesota Wild. But it may not get better. It may not get better than the NFL draft. But we have to start with the exposure of perhaps the biggest hoax of the past decade. And that is that the nation's number one scourge, the greatest threat to our democracy is white supremacy, as evidenced by the Charlottesville Unite the Right Rally in 2016. The Unite the Right rally literally inspired the presidential run of Joe Biden. It prompted a cultural revisit. It got Robert Lee kicked off of an ESP. broadcast. The poor Asian broadcaster's name was too similar to the Confederacy's general. It literally led to a national conversation about the rise of white supremacy.

And yet today that we learned, not only was it a hoax that Donald Trump said at that rally that there were very fine people, but we learned that in fact the whole thing was, at least in part, astroturfed by the Southern Poverty Law Center. The Department of Justice yesterday filed a grand jury indictment against the Southern Poverty Law Center for paying, not just members, but leaders of the Aryan Nation, the KKK, the National Alliance, and yes, the Unite the Right. You and I walk around in this world, never really bumping into an Ed Nortonian figure from American History X. And yet we were told that white supremacy is the greatest threat to our democracy. And as it turns out, the people supposedly fighting racism were the ones

funding that exact white supremacy. Joining us now is the host of Pod Force One and author of The Big Guy and The Laptop from Hell and the columnist at the New York Post. It is Miranda Divine. Miranda, I just find this incredible. I just find this story Amazing. And maybe the place to start for just a moment before we dive into the details is just to take a break, a breather, and just say, remember what it was like in 2016? Do you remember the fallout from Charlottesville? Yeah, I'm so glad you're highlighting this story, Will, because I think it is a bombshell, like you said, it's the biggest tokes in the last 10 years, and that is saying a lot. And it just gives you an insight into how the Democrat cultural revolutionary playbook works. The SPLC Southern Poverty Law Center was the most prestigious civil rights organization,

so much so that the FBI used their bogus research as the predicate for their investigations. For instance, under Joe Biden, when they started investigating, Catholics at traditional mass as being incipient domestic violent terrorists. So it's terrifying. And of course, Charlottesville, as you mentioned, in 2016, that laid the entire framework to discredit and defile Trump as a bigot, as a white supremacist. All his followers were like that. You remember by the time Joe Biden became president in 2020,

That was one of his reigning sort of presidential motifs was he would give speeches railing against the bigots and the Nazis of Ultramaga, the semi-fascists he called half the country, more than half the country that voted for Donald Trump. So this was their way of shaming conservatives, of singling them out. And the Southern Poverty Law Center was the perfect vehicle. So what did they do at the SPLC? According to this indictment, they gave over a million dollars, over about a 10-year period, to the National Alliance and affiliates of the National Alliance. Now, who is the National Alliance? And I did a little dive on this, Miranda. The National Alliance was a white supremacist neo-Nazi group who saw its heyday in peak, apparently in the late 1990s into the early 2000s. However, its founder died in 2002. From then's It's sort of splinters into a bunch of different groups. And it is estimated that by the time you arrived at about 2014,

there's only a few dozen members left of the National Alliance. The Southern Poverty Law Center also apparently gave over $300,000 to the Aryan Nation, whose story is very similar to the National Alliance. In fact, in 2002, the Southern Poverty Law Center sued the Arian Nation, got a $6 million verdict. It basically begins to disintegrate over the ensuing decade. And then we look up, and the Southern Poverty Law Center is funding the Aryan Nation. Now, we should say that the SPLC's defense to this is that they were paying informants

to know of potential threats that could maybe be coming their way. I would just say, Miranda, that's a lot of money to informants. and some of these people alleged in the indictment were not low-level infiltrators, but leaders of some of these groups. Yeah, that just does not pass the sniff test. That's just their excuse. And it just, to me, it just smells like a lie. They're not a law enforcement entity.

The FBI pays informants. Private NGOs do not pay informants. They don't have the apparatus to be able to run. informants, if they had a problem, particularly during the Biden and Obama eras, they had friends inside the administration who would do anything for them. They had relationships with the FBI, where they were feeding them information to target conservative groups. So there's no way that they felt so under siege or that they had any capacity to run an informant program. They, as you, said, I mean, a million dollars they were giving to each of these organizations.

$500,000, it was an enormous amount of money. And as you said, they were paying the leader of the Unite the Right Charlottesville rally who organized that rally. So I think it's pretty clear. And you can see Todd Blatch, the acting attorney general, came pretty close to saying this. And you just said it. they weren't enough right-wing extremists to justify the Southern Poverty Law Centre's continued existence. And so what did they do? They nurtured them. They seeded them. They funded them. They

manufactured, as Todd Blanche said, they manufactured the very hate that they purported to be combating. And then the other side, I think the more important side of what their real motivation, and their real mission was, was to malign conservative groups, grassroots conservative groups that basically espouse the views that most Americans have, whether it be Mums for Liberty or the Family Research Council. These are just pro-family Christian socially conservative groups that don't want children to be, you know, trans at school, et cetera.

And so I think that was what the Southern Poverty Law Center was really trying to do, was equate them, make a moral equivalence between those groups, Catholics at traditional mass, and the KKK or neo-Nazi groups. So they built up one while they smeared the other. That's, I think, exactly right. And it was done not just at the Southern Poverty Law. Center. They were used as a springboard for the rhetoric that came from the Biden administration and from President Joe Biden himself. He said that Charlottesville was his inspiration for running for president,

and he and his administration declared that white supremacy was the greatest threat to our democracy. And I say this. I don't say this flippantly. I don't know anyone. I literally have never met anyone that fits the bill, the image, or the ideology that is described by Joe Biden in his administration. You know, if you go on, if you went on to the Southern Party Law Center's website, to your point, they focus on Stephen Miller, describe him under the banner of hate as anti-immigrant. They list Chaya Rachech, who is libs of TikTok. They focus on many, many others, including organizations like you said, and family, that's what I was going to say, family research council and Turning Point USA. They also listed Turning Point USA as a far right extremist group and Charlie Kirk.

In fact, I believe they had listed Charlie Kirk just two months before his assassination. And so my point is they take this, as you're suggesting, this image, literally of like Ed Norton in America. American History X. Again, a figure of which I've never met, right? Basically say that's the biggest threat to America. And then under that banner, slip in everything they disagree with politically, including Charlie Kirk. Absolutely. And it's really dangerous. It's really malign. And they were, had a had a red carpet into the Biden White House. They met with the Biden White House 11 times. and Joe Biden even put one of their office holders, made her a judge. It's a very symbiotic relationship.

It is really the Democratic Party's op-o shop for many years, the Southern Poverty Law Center. And what they do is they create these academic seeming documents that chart why you know, Turning Point USA, tibs of TikTok. They're most effective political opposition on the conservative side. They list why they are the same as the KKK, why they are violent extremists who will,

it's really not them. It's so much as that they will incite this mythological American mob that can't be trusted. and that will try and overthrow the government. And that's why January 6th was so potent for them. It was why many, including me, believe that that was orchestrated, that Nancy Pelosi, at least by omission, if not by commission,

by denying the Capitol Police Chief Stephen Sund, the backup troops he'd been begging for for days and the hours leading up to the breach of the Capitol doors, And the other Democrats as well. I mean, there's the pipe bomb. Who knows what else was going on. The multiple FBI informants that we've never heard about or sources that were in the crowd and that were at the front of the break-in.

So I think that they very quickly, even if you say they were completely innocent of fomenting the riot and making it worse than it should have been, they certainly weaponised it afterwards. I mean, the fact that a riot that went on for three hours in comparison to the summer of love riots that went on for months and killed two dozen people and caused hundreds of millions of dollars of damage, that that short riot at the Capitol

would become the FBI's largest ever investigation is just insane. And I think we will look back at that period and just shake our heads and think how surreal and awful it was. Well, okay, so two more details that I don't mean as a rebuttal to something you said, but I do think it requires

a little bit of recognition. So you said, I don't know that the Southern Poverty Law Center would have the wherewithal to run an informant program. I don't know, Miranda. In 2015, I think it is, the Southern Poverty Law Center had net assets and revenue of about $52

million in one year, one year. After the Charlottesville deal, their net revenue or their revenue and net assets, I think, I'm pulling this off the top of my head, went to, I think, something like $132 million in one year. How did it do that? Well, they fundraised off this national movement that then, I mean, at that time, Miranda, I was in sports. And that gave me, it's interesting for me to look back on my time and my life in focusing on sports because then it gave me a real vantage point of what reaching. beyond the politically plugged in, you know, right?

Kind of like where the average Americans mind drifts and goes and his demanded attention. And, I mean, every sports figure talked about Charlottesville. Every sports figure. At that point and then later George Floyd, that's when you can't escape this national conversation. And so the Southern Poverty Law Center benefits from this. moment that everybody in the country is like, wow, look at this. We've got a real problem on our hands in America. Look what's hiding underneath the surface. And they raised all this money. They got a

million dollars from Tim Cook at Apple. They got a million dollars from George Clooney and a mall Clooney. They got a million dollars from MGM resorts. They raised a ton of money. And with those kind of assets, I don't know what they're doing at the Southern Probably Law Center. Well, I mean, they manufactured Charlottesville, if you look at the money that they were using to fund the leader of the organizer of the rally. So they manufactured it. And then they weaponized it afterwards to create the perfect rainmaker event. They, as you said, I mean, they more than doubled their intake, the outrage. and with the complicity of the media,

you remember that Donald Trump was taken out of context with the very fine people hoax. He never said that. But it took several years, five or six years, before mainstream media grudgingly admitted, when you look at the whole quote, he said nothing like the neo-Nazis were very fine people at all. But that worked incredibly well.

There's literally video of him saying, I'm not talking about the white nationalist and the neo-Nazis. And it's pretty wild to your point. And I'll admit, again, as somebody who at that time was in sports and didn't like dive, dive into the video of what he actually said, that persisted. It did take four, five, six years for that fact to become a reality, which is fascinating. Why did that take so long? All you had to do was extend the clip. That's all you had to do is extend the. the clip and there was a total refusal to do so. That narrative took off. And by the way, what a

powerful narrative. I saw Chmath Palapitia, who's the All In podcast host, and he's a Silicon Valley guy, and now he's a big supporter of President Trump. But he said, he bought it. Because everybody bought it, because it was shoved down your throat relentlessly with no fact check. Yes. And because everyone bought it because they believed, and I believe, still believe, their preferred media organs. So whether it be the New York Times or CNN or MSNBC, you know, they listen to that. And also if it's repeated across different outlets

and then everybody you talk to is outraged by it, the average person is not going to investigate very deeply. And so they just buy it. And it sort of fit with the entire framework framing that Donald Trump was put in by the left, which is that he is a white supremacist and he is a fascist. And so, of course, he would say something like that

and he would encourage these people. It was just the perfect storm, the same as George Floyd. These things are, I think, orchestrated by the left or at least January 6 as well, just at least the apparatus put in place. there are probably others that they try and don't come off as well. But occasionally, if they set up these things, occasionally they take off and they go viral

and they then become the truth, even though it's a lie. They become the truth. And it's very difficult after the fact. It's really painstaking work to chip away at people's preconceived beliefs because they forget the facts five years later, but they have inhaled the emotion, which is in the their gut, they know that Donald Trump is a white supremacist and a fascist. I think, I said this on TV yesterday, Miranda, I bet if you did a poll of 10 Americans, casual observers at best of the news, to this day, would they think he called neo-Nazis and white supremacist

very fine people? To this day, I think that there is a significant percentage that would. That's how powerful that hoax was. And it also kind of makes you step back and go, well, what Which one's going on right now? If you went to a social media post between 2016 and I'm going to say 2021, there's a very high chance, I would think, that you could have a story up about Artemis, for example, or whatever the 2018 equivalent of Artemis was. And you'd see very fine people, people responding very fine people, very fine people, right? Today, that version is Petto. That's the version. You can go to any innocuous news story about Donald Trump, and you will see that the comments are pedo lover, pedo, pedophile protector, on and on and on.

And all I'm saying about that is when that becomes what you just described, something where you've inhaled the emotion, independent of the facts, it becomes something really suspect. Like the whole story, which obviously what I'm talking about here is Epstein. the life that it's taken on. And I'm not saying there's no story there with Epstein, but everyone needs to step back and go, what's really going on here in terms of how the public has inhaled this story? Yeah. And I think the clever psychology behind seeding these hoaxes is that it really just plays on people's emotions. What are the things they care about the most? What, you know, of course, protection of children is paramount. And, And especially for women.

And I think, you know, I mean, I'm a woman, so I know this is true. We are more easily swayed by our emotions. And that's why, well, most of us are. And that's why I think you're seeing increasingly the gender divide between Democrats and Republicans because women fall for these, you know, Donald Trump. Trump derangement basically is at the center of all of it. And especially if they have daddy issues, I think they really can't see straight when they come to Donald Trump. I've seen the charts on women.

Women have gotten way more radical. That's another narrative. Men have fallen off the edge into the alt-right. That's not what the data suggests. The data suggests that women have gotten incredibly radicalized over the past decade. That's right. Men have just stayed pretty much where they were, like just, just modern. Sensible and women have just moved left at an alarming rate.

And, you know, all sorts of issues, emotional issues, target them, whether it be, you know, abortion or currently, the new one, I've noticed that the Democrats are dredging up, is dignity. There's a thing called the Dignity Index, and it springs for something called Unite. And it's really all about Donald Trump. It's all about saying, oh, his discourteous language, his uncouth, belligerent attitude, his tone. We can't abide that. You know, we are a civilized people,

and that's the reason for the division in this country. We need more dignity. That appeals to women, and it's absolutely trying to disarm and neuter conservatives ahead of the midterms. Okay, one last thing. I don't know that they funded the leader, by the way, of Unite the Right. And the reason I say that is with the Petto thing or any of these other stories, the tool and the technique is to do what is to take something, something that exists, usually in some small way, distort, pull out of context and out of proportionate into something else. Did the words very fine people come out of Donald Trump's mouth? Yes. But then if you listen longer, you see exactly what he's talking about. And so you take the thing and then you stretch and pull and extract and and displace. There are white supremacists in this country. The issue isn't the lack of existence of them. The issue is the quantity and the prevalence of them, right? As I said, the National Alliance seems to be down to a few dozen members. There is, there was a legitimate, unite the right rally that did include some real white supremacist. I don't think it was totally manufactured. But what happened is it's then astroturfed and it's funded and it's encouraged and it's

paid. You get those people in. You say you should get online. You should work them up. According to the indictment, they helped arrange transportation for how many I don't know, but they were there. And I think that takes us back to January 6th as well, to some extent. was there legitimately things going on on January 6th? Yes, but how much was it instigated, pulled, stretched, encouraged by a fake astroturf type of situation? That's what I think happened with Unite the Right. I agree. And, I mean, you're looking at the anti-ice rallies, same thing.

You looked at the George Floyd rallies in 2020 or protests. The anti-ice stuff, I think, is really interesting and interesting. That looks to me totally orchestrated. It's part of a grander pattern, again, the fascist Trump, sending in his jack-boot thugs, who, you know, I mean, I think one of the most genius ideas of Donald Trump was to get the ice agents to go and open up the airports and fill in for during the shutdown. And, you know, the average American traveler could see them. They were just so lovely. They were courteous.

They were competent. They were, you know, a lot of them were ex-military, ex-law enforcement, patriotic people. It's very different to the demonized characters that they were made out to be. Absolutely. All right. I agree where we started this.

This is a huge story. I think, by the way, it's got zero coverage on ABC, NBC, CBS. Of course. Which is this wild for how much coverage, basically Charlottesville and this narrative got for a decade. Now, zero revisit, zero willingness to revisit. I think it's huge, as do you, and I appreciate you being on with us here today. You can check Miranda out at the New York Post and Pod Force One. Miranda, it's always good to talk to you. Thank you. You too, Will. Thank you.

By the way, on the Unite the Right, $270,000, given to figure, a figure or figures within the Unite the Right movement that led to that Charlottesville rally. Okay, I got a couple things I want to talk about. I need to do this before Brian Hubbard gets here because I can't be talking about Rick Flair with Brian Hubbard coming in here all serious. So let's bring Casey Smith or Barstool to join us now here on Wilcane Country. I almost feel like I'm sneaking this conversation in before the adult comes in the room. So that tells me what you think about me. I'm okay with it.

Exactly. Exactly. Let's wait. Let's not just jump into Rick Flair. We're not just going to jump into Rick Flair. I feel like you have to get this off your chest now. Get this off your chest. It's that important to you. You were thinking about it before you brought us in. You probably should just get it off your chest. Fine, fine, fine, Casey. If you want to talk about Rick Flair, we'll talk about Rick Flair. Okay, this is what Rick Flair, gosh, like I turned the wheels over to her and she's hosting the show. And look where her mind goes.

She insists that we talk about Rick Flair. Rick Flair, of course, famously, wrestling legend, who I've met a couple of times. I really like him. Nice, nice guy was on Ariel Hawani's show. And I don't know why Ariel brings this up. see the clip, it kind of just randomly brings up the famous claim that Wilk Chamberlain slept with 10,000 women. And this is the response from Rick Flair. You know that famous Will Chamberlain 10,000 number? Wilk? Wilk, the stilt. I blew by him and I was 39. What? 39. You're double now.

Well, hey, I can't listen. The one thing I want to make sure of you, they weren't all tens. There was a couple of heavyweights along the way, but it was in a small town. Okay. Rick Flair saying he blew past Wilt Chamberlain's 10,000 by the age of 39. Do you buy it, Casey? No. A lot of people never bought Wilt's number.

I just feel like that's just humanly impossible. I guess you can't fact check it. How does he fact check it? Like, is he keeping a list? Like, at some point, don't you just lose track? I would think. I would think. I don't know.

I'm not good at math. I'm only good at sports math. If you've had sex with more than 10,000 people by 39, what is that per year after the age of 18? Let's just say. I did the math. What is it? I did the math. I gave him an earlier start.

I did it from the age of 15. Just because I thought he needed the years. So that's roughly 25 years, right? 15 to 39. Let's just give him 25 years. Maybe he started when he's 14. That is 400 a year. Different partners, Casey.

Different partners. So, yeah. That's more than one a day. I can't say what he was into, but that's a busy, busy lifestyle. if you have other things going on in your life, which Rick Flair would, which Wilts Chamberlain would. Anything else.

Anything else. Anything else. Right. No other hobbies at all. And by the way, even if we grant him, to your point, I don't know what you're saying when what he's into, even if we grant him some double ups or even some triples, right, at one time, you're still talking about insane numbers.

And Patrick, you pointed this out, he suffered a, major injury in this in this time as well was it a car wreck or was it from wrestling like he was laid up for a while yeah he was in a major plane accident that killed other wrestlers and he was like in a body cast i believe for quite a while so took him out of so we're taking takes him out of commission we're reducing the number of days so now we're back to how does this physically possible that you get to these numbers i mean not to go down like a whole rabbit hole of people who I don't necessarily want to sit here and talk about, but you do have like those only fans models who are going for like world records in 24 hours like Bonnie

Blue and those girls. So I guess technically if you're just trying to run that up, you could, but I still just don't think it's humanly possible. I just, I just, do what? She's got the internet. Rick Flair was sans internet. She's got the internet. That's the other thing. Think about degree of difficulty. He didn't have Tinder at his disposal. Like, degree. of difficulty, go out into the physical world every day and find one or more partners willing and interested. And he's Rick Flair. He's Rick Flair. And as he mentioned, he's going into some small towns or whatever it may be. And he is doing that in an analog world. He's doing that in an analog world. Dan, are you getting ready for the next interview? Is that why I'm off

screen. Just kicking you off while you're going on this soapbox about Rick Flair. We're having some camera issues down here. I feel like a lady could hit these numbers if she wanted to in the real world without the internet because you just walk up to a guy and it's like, you know, the chances of them just being game are probably pretty high. But like Rick Flair has to like chat them up and, you know, I don't know, it just seems like a lot.

I mean, celebrities, I mean, I've watched Entourage. I know how easy it is for celebrities. you know, I see how easy Vincent Chase had it. I just don't know, like, the human body, I feel like, just cannot handle that with anything else going on. Like, you have to sleep, you have to hydrate, you have to eat, you have to do other things. Like, I just feel by 39, that's just impossible. Impossible, right?

Impossible, right? He's 70s now. What would his numbers be by now? And by the, we can book Rick. I bet you we can book Rick, Patrick. Oh, I'm going to try. Maybe we have to do a follow up on that. Yeah.

Okay, let's take a quick break. Let's get our camera situation sorted out. So we'll come back with Casey Smith. I want to talk about Mom Donnie's curse on the Mets and the NFL draft. And we'll be joined by Brian Hubbard, President of Americans for Ibigan, who had a gigantic victory last Saturday on Wilcane Country. This week on the Fox True Crime podcast, Psychotherapist and author Lena Durhawley breaks down the mind of Chris Watts and the warning signs behind one of America's

most disturbing family murders. Listen and follow now at Foxx. True Crime.com. I'm Dana Perino. This week on Perino on politics, I'm joined by Fox News congressional correspondent Bill Malusian. Listen and follow now at Fox News Podcast.com. Or wherever you get your favorite podcasts. Must listen to podcasts from Fox News Audio. It is Wilcane Country streaming live at the Wilcane Country YouTube channel, the Wilcane Facebook page.

Always here at Spotify. We are still joined by Casey Smith from Barstall, hanging out with us here today, working through our camera and technological difficulties. but I think that we can work around this. Dan, we can, right? Patrick, just keep this shot of me. Yeah, yeah, one second. Get Casey back up on the screen. Everybody would rather see Casey than a close-up of me anyway.

So let's see if we can put that up on the screen. For me watching on YouTube or Facebook. Can you hear me, Casey? I can. Loud and clear. Okay. All right. So Patrick was super disappointed by the fact that we did not.

I was, I just pushed this story off. I pushed this story off. I never did it. The Mets went on a terribly long losing streak after New York City mayor, Mammondani, Zora Mammani went and hugged Mr. and Mrs. Mett. The mascots look like whatever, baseballs. Yes. And what was the losing streak?

Was it 11 or 12? I think it was 11. I think it was 11. They finally won last night. I think it was 12. They finally won, right? I could be wrong. I'm not a Mets fan.

but I think it was, I think they won on the 12th. I also just don't believe in baseball curses will. I don't know how you feel about them. I just, I think that baseball fans want to believe in superstitions so badly that everything becomes a superstition. And then when you have a funny one like this, like if you're not a Mondami fan or if you're not a Mets fan, you can latch onto it. But I just, like there's too many baseball games at this point for us to really believe in

superstitions. Yeah. Well, that's why these things happen, because baseball, fans get bored. There's too many games. 162 games? I'd like make stuff up too, I guess. Yeah, you got to find stories. Patrick, you were really disappointed. In fact, you tried

to make sure the show did not end yesterday. You kept talking as the music played us out because you wanted to do this story. And I said to you, well, maybe the Mets will lose another game. We can keep this going. That did not happen. The curse was broken. Why? I knew it was going to be broken.

I just knew it. I mean, it was like, We keep pushing it off. It was like every day. I'm like, they're not going to do it again. They can't lose a 13th game. So they did lose 12. Yeah, that was the twins. Was it 12?

Yes, it was 12. The twins trolled them after they beat them for the 12th. Things that come in dozens, roses, eggs, Mets losses. So it was 12. Are you a Mets fan, Patrick? No, I hate the Mets. I'm a very fan. Okay.

I didn't know. why you were so locked into it. Oh, that's what it is. A Mrs. Met fan, which apparently there are those out there as well. There are men that think Mrs. Met is hot. Again, this is not my expertise, so I'm not really sure what to think about that. I didn't know that. Really? No, I don't feel alone. So you objectify Mrs. Met, too? No. That's actually the first time I've ever seen Mr. Mrs. Met, I believe. That's the first time I've ever seen them when they're hugging Mom Donnie. This may be just the world that I live in. They're not picking sh- Shr-I-you-Barsall obviously. No, I guess, I guess Mrs. Met has a nice figure. That's the

nicest way I can say it. She's got a nice butt on her, apparently. Again, I just see these things online. Again, that says something about my algorithm. But I do think that Mrs. Met is seen as hot from what I understand. Yeah, I can see it. I could see it. Mr. Met, Mr. Met's pretty built himself. I haven't done my research. I guess I should.

I guess I should check that out. They got some real models there in the Mets costumes. Did you stay up late, Casey? I mean, you've sold out to the Red Sox, the Patriots. You've sold out to everything Northeast. You have basically turned in your Texan card. Did you stay up late watching the Stars beat the wild? I did not.

But my dad. text me when it happened, so I saw it this morning. I think we've talked about this. I grew up watching the stars here and there. We went to a couple games a year they won the Stanley Cup. I've never been a big hockey fan, even when I moved up to the Northeast. Like I would watch Bruins games with my friends who grew up in Boston. I've just never really been a huge hockey fan, but then the NHL playoffs come around and like the closer you get to the Stanley Cup, it's electric. So I pay more attention to it then, but my dad was locked in. So my dad was up. late with you. I stayed up late watching game two. And to your point, I had trouble going to sleep

afterward. I really did. Playoff hockey is so insane. It really is. Like what it does to your heart rate, I had a hard time coming down after game two. Last night, I think the game went to almost one. And I watched through the first overtime. I fell asleep during the second overtime. And I said, to hell with it. I'll wake up in the morning. It'll be a nice surprise. And I turned it off. Stars 1 in double overtime, I think it was like seven minutes to go. I got up, as I do, as one does. I don't know if everybody does, but I'm not 28 anymore. I got up in the middle of the night, and I was like, I'm just going to check. I think it was like 3.30 a.m. I go, I'm just going to look at my phone, and I saw the Stars 1 and had a little smile on my face, and I went back to

sleep. It was a nice little sports present to open in the middle of the night. That's risky, because if you saw the opposite, then you could potentially be angry and not fall asleep. I can't check my phone in the middle of the night. I've done the same thing with sports that I'm not super locked into and it's gotten late. And then I wake up and I look at it. And then I have to go down a rabbit hole on Twitter and figure out what people are saying. So I just have to really surprise myself when I'm having my coffee. Because if not, I could be up all night.

That's how old I am. Like a screen wakes me up enough to stay up all night. Yeah, I have bad habits when it comes to that. I do turn it over so the light doesn't shine up into the thing and try to lock it and all that. You don't do not disturb? It is. Wait, hold on. You sleep with your phone on, like people can ring?

Oh, I do this. Oh, it's always silent. I never have my ringer on. Okay. So I just turn it down so where the light doesn't shine up into the room. So this is why he doesn't get back to anybody. Because he can't, he doesn't know they texted or called. Because he can't hear it.

I don't know what? You don't know there anybody's extra cold. I only have it vibrate. I don't have any noise coming out of my phone because I can't stand when my phone makes a noise. But at night, that is on Do Not Disturb. You cannot text me and hear it overnight or I'll be pissed. I need to do that. I need to set something to do not disturb.

And you can set it where it's automatic where you don't, where it just does it itself at certain times. And then like if your kids, for whatever reason, if your kids need to, like when they go to college like that, you can set it to where like they're. error notifications will come through. If somebody calls you three times in a row, that will come through. So you're not missing emergencies. You're just, in my case, like missing my drunk, idiot friends texting me in the middle of night when I'm in bed by 10, you know? Technology.

Imagine that. There's so much you can do. I had no idea. Okay. I am a boomer when it comes to this stuff, without it out. I attribute it to laziness, Patrick. I don't want to take the time to figure all this stuff out. I don't, I'm not that interested in the benefits to put the work in at the front end to making it optimized.

It just doesn't do it for me. All right, Casey, it is really, honestly, probably my favorite sports day of the year. The only sad thing is that at the end of this, I will no longer be able to read mock drafts or play with mock draft simulators. Tonight is the first round of the NFL draft. By the way, saw you at College Station on social media. Saw you at College Station last weekend. I got to go back to the spring game, which I mean, you know how spring games go. It's like if you're a hardcore college football fan and you're feeding for college football in April, even though you're playing each other, like that hits every single time.

It was great. But this is also the first regime, I should say, coaching staff that I'm really welcomed and Barstall is really welcomed around. So I get to like hang out. So I'll go back for anything. They can invite me for a random fall practice and I'm going to be back. Do you ask or do they all? offer the invitation and you accept. No, they are.

So coach Elko and his staff, they, they offer the invitation. And that actually really surprised me. This is only going into his third season. But when I get text messages from, from their people and like public relations, I'm like, are you serious? Of course I'm going to be there. Like I told them straight up. The only way that I will never not be there is if I'm covering college football for

my job. Otherwise, like I will find a way to be there because when Jimbo Fisher was there, like, he hated Barstole, hated everything about it. So I was never invited. I could show up if I wanted, but I never did. So, you know, we're a cult. You say, I'm proud to be part of a cold. I'll be there and I'm going to be there with Maroon and White on every single time until I die.

Florida State told me I could go to a spring game. I would tell them, I would pay them not to go. We are so bad. Why, Patrick? It would be incredible. Be terrible. Yeah, but I agree with Casey. If you are in on something, my, I think.

some of my favorite things about sports is future projection. It's not actually living in the present. Like, I love these Stars games. It's a lot of fun. But I have just as much fun reading about, thinking about who is second on the depth chart, who's third on the depth chart, who is the transfer recruit, and how they're rising up and how they're playing. I love that stuff. So a spring game is all that. It's like, who's actually good? Who is the second string guy that is showing out? I don't I don't know. I love that stuff because I feel like it's infused with hope and the future. And that's why I love the NFL draft. It's I love it because everybody today feels like they're getting a little piece of hope in whoever they draft. And the Cowboys have two shots

in the first round. Do you love the draft, Casey? I was going to say, I love the draft. Dan and I were actually talking before the show. I feel like social media and this is an issue as you get older where it's like everything has to be consumed so fast that social media has kind of made me less excited for the draft because like first of all the you know the reports that come out that are leaked which i don't necessarily care about that but like we're now programmed to not sit and wait which is i mean part of the reason why i think that they did take the 10 minute clock to eight minutes i think it'll probably be even shorter in the years coming i like it but it is hard i mean we do a show on barstle tonight that we'll cover it it's like our own little you know meeting room

of john gruden will be hosting it but it is kind of hard to sit like every single time a team is on the clock. It's like, okay, we have to wait 10 minutes, which is a sad state of affairs, but I'm not near as excited as I used to be about it. No, 10 minutes is a lot. So here's what I do. Here's how, now tonight I'm going to be on an airplane, so it's not going to be the ideal environment for how I like to do it. I will put it on the TV and really not listen to a lot of the commentary. Some of the commentary I will, meaning I'll turn it up, volume up or down. And then I will listen to local radio that will focus on the Cowboys, and I will listen to them breaking down as players go off the board, who that leaves for the Cowboys.

So it's a little bit like chess or gameplay as it goes, who's left. And of course, I have the guys that I want. So I'm rooting for outcomes. What do I know? But I know some things. And I know who I want to drop to them. And that will all be like gamesmanship that's played out. And then I will also scroll, to your point, Twitter.

And that is the thing, X, that ruins it the most for me. Because I need it to play out. I don't think eight and ten minutes is not good between picks. But I like the buildup and then the, oh, that guy's off. What's that leave now? And Adam Schaefter is out here breaking the news way too early. And he ruins sort of the climax of it for me. I don't get that big moment.

It loses the drama when you know ahead of the people on TV, who the pick's going to be. Well, and that's also part of the, the whole insider game, which I know right now with all the Vrabel stuff and all that, like everybody's talking about how they're getting their sources and their scoops and whatever. But it's like asking us to not be on social media. We work in media for us to not be on social media so we don't get spoiled. Because I remember that being a thing where it's like, well, just don't get on social media then. You're going to get so.

It's like, that's not how this works. It's just like a lot of these teams, which I understand you want the drama, you want it to play out. A lot of these teams know exactly who they're going to draft within the next couple minutes anyways. like why don't we just speed it up? That's my issue. It's like if you don't want the Adam Schaefters of the world to break it. Like let's just speed it up. Godell, come on. Like that's what's going to be good about tonight. That's what's going to be good about tonight. The sales pitch on tonight is the unpredictability of this. There is one thing that is for certain and that's it. And that is Fernando Mendoz is going to go number one to the Raiders. That's it.

After that, I don't see mock drafts that have any real sense of consistency. We have an idea of who the next four or five guys will be, but we don't know in what order. We really don't. And so I think that this draft could be chock full of surprises on guys we think are going to go four, like, Jeremiah Love from Notre Dame. But he could drop to 13. Probably not. But all these guys could rise or drop, and there could be a massive amount of trading. I think that's going to make for a fun first round draft.

And you're a Patriots fan, right? Sell out? Well, so this is where people really hate me for this. I was a Patriots fan when Tom Brady was there. And then when he was with the Bucks, I was a Tom. I'm a Tom Brady girl, okay? No, I, to be completely honest, and this is one of those things where I know I've told you this and you roll your eyes every single time. But in my household, it was A&M football and college football.

Nothing else mattered. So I work in the NFL, right? I do an NFL show. But I don't have a super strong allegiance to any team anymore. I watch the entire league and I find the storylines that I like. But if you put a gun to my head, like, who are you going to root for? To make my dad happy, I would have to say the Cowboys. But it is, I guess, the Patriots.

But that's a lame thing to say. And I realize that you hate that. But I'm telling you the truth, okay? Yeah, I do. I'm going to tell you the truth. Like, that it is, like if professional sports fell off the planet. You get a little credit for the truth, but not a lot. Well, see, you know, a little inside baseball for you.

Well, back in the day. when I was younger and I really cared what people thought online. I would lie, oh, I'm the biggest Cowboys fan ever. That was just for the game, right? Now I'm just going to be honest with you guys. I love watching the NFL every single year. Like I really like Joe Burrow. I like the, like the storylines.

At the end of the day, if I have to pick, I would like the Patriots to win, but I'm not going to cry if they don't. All right. So you're going to be watching. Guaranteed case will be posting about Casey Concepcion. Well, yeah. And M. Wide receiver when he gets drafted. Yeah.

It's just how defensive end when he gets drafted. But, Will, I mean, you're a college football guy. You're a college football guy. You get this. And I've said this before. It's like when I moved to Boston, first of all, it was a culture shock to me that no one cared about college football. That to me was wild.

I was like, how do you people like exist on Saturdays? But I was used a lot more at NBC Sports for my college football knowledge because so many people don't watch college football the way that we do in the South. And so I loved the draft because I was able to actually. break down what was happening on Saturdays. So then if you actually do have, which in your case, Longhorns, you know, I know Anthony Hill could sneak up there, all these different guys. If it's an Aggie that's being talked about, yeah, I'm going to be excited.

I might even wear an A&M shirt tonight on our NFL show. Why not? Okay. Which, by the way, we can catch wear. Your NFL show tonight with Barstall, we can catch where. It'll be all over every Barstall platform, YouTube, the whole thing. But like you said, like the most exciting thing about this, we know Fernando is going to go number one. I love Fernando. I think he's great. Everything else is a complete wild card.

Will, do you think that Jerry's going to trade up? He hasn't since 2012. No. You don't? No, not really. No, not to the Browns at six. The rumors are the Browns at six, I think that's going to be too expensive. Maybe to the chiefs at nine. And for anybody that wants to know, here's what I want. Here's my dream scenario. Caleb Downs somehow gets to the Cowboys. Ohio State safety. Whether or not they have to get to nine or he falls to 12, I want Caleb Downs, and then I want Malachi Lawrence from Central Florida, probably at the second pick, but I would prefer the Cowboys to draft trade backwards and pick up some second and third round picks if they can. That's my ideal outcome. I think Caleb Downs is a future Hall of Famer.

And, you know, I got to go because I got to talk about Ibegain. The thing about the draft is, and I keep going back and forth on this, you know, the Cowboys are horrible on defense. You got a draft defense. the draft basically has about a 50% bust rate. And when you start to really internalize that and look at it over the course, you just take somebody that you know or you think is going to be good. So by the way, the Cowboys have George Pickens and C.D. Lamb. If they're sitting there and a receiver is without a doubt the best player available,

take the receiver and figure it out later. That's what I think. You just have to take guys that are going to make it. Well, that's why I think Jeremiah Love, like you cannot let him slip because He, I mean, Fernando is going to be the number one overall pick. Jeremiah Love is the best player in the draft, in my opinion. So, like, you just figure it out. You go get a pro-ready guy like Jeremiah Love.

So I agree with you. Just put the pieces together after the fact. And also somebody out there needs to draft Casey Conception on. So thank you for letting everyone know that. Okay. I meant Jordan Tyson when I said the Cowboys take a wide receiver. All right. Casey Smith, check her out at all the barstool platforms tonight during the NFL draft.

We appreciate you hanging out with us here today. Thank you, Casey. Thanks, Will. By the way, there's one little, for any sports nut out there, I do think you take the undoubted guy like Caleb Downs, but I will say I will add one more factor in. You do think about the cost of replacement. So Jeremiah Love is most people's thought as the best player in the draft. However, Jeremiah Love comes in and makes a certain amount of money by virtue of being, let's say, the fourth pick in the draft. And the truth is, he's making almost as much as what it would cost to sign the best running back in the NFL and free agency.

and that's not a good use of money. You need to get the players where the delta on what it costs to sign the best version of that in free agency is gigantic versus a high draft. That's wide receiver. That's quarterback. That's cornerback. That's defensive end. Because then that extra money you have to spend on the rest of your roster. And that is an argument against safety, linebacker, running back.

But obviously I'm willing to break that economic truism when it comes to Caleb Downs. Let's take one more quick break and welcome in just a moment with the President of Americans for Ibegain. Brian Hubbard, who was hanging out with Joe Rogan in the Oval Office just four days ago, five days ago, on Wilcane Country. Brian Hubbard is the CEO of Americans for Ibegain, and he joins us now on Will Cane Country. Casual. I love it. I haven't seen you cash. Hair down. Do you normally have it back in a ponytail? You know, if I've got to look decent and respectable, I make sure and pull it back, so I've got it a little bit of that. business look. There's enough kind of hillbilly to have to overcome on the best of days. If I can come in here and just let it all hang out, that's definitely the preference.

And then he's got his t-shirt on that says, God bless Texas. Is that a particular message right now? That is a very particular and specific message. Why? Well, what we have just achieved through the president's executive order this past Saturday, while it began in Kentucky, it came to fruition in the great state of Texas. The Texas Ibegain Initiative, which was the Kentucky Ibegain Initiative, signed into law by Governor Abbott on June the 11th, 2025. Shout out to my Betty Logan Davidson, who was my right-hand guy to make it happen. That laid the foundation for what has become a genuine national movement to advance Ibegain medicine within the United States. As we sit here now, there have bills that have passed both houses of the legislatures in West Virginia in Kentucky,

Mississippi. Bills are making their way through the legislatures of Louisiana, Oklahoma, and I believe Tennessee's House past theirs, and it's on their way to their governor now. Real quick, because I don't want to take for granted that everybody listening knows what we're talking about. We've talked about it a lot here on this program, on the Will Kane Show on Fox News channel. If anybody's a listener to Joe Rogan, they've become familiar with Ibogaine, but still I don't want to take for granted that everybody knows exactly what we're talking about. Even the president when you were with him on Saturday was like, Ibo, Ibo, Ibo gain. Am I pronouncing that right? Like he was still working on his pronunciation of Iba Gain. Yes, sir. I've been to documentary screenings. I have done a series for Fox Nation.

And I've done countless interviews with not just you, but Governor Perry and Marcus Capone and his wife, Navy Seale, about this, I guess, drug. What do you like to call it, Brian? Drug, psychedelic. Sometimes when I use these terms, people that are more, I don't want to say enthusiastic, but in it, don't call it that will, don't call it this will. What do you call IbaGame? It's medicine. Medicine is something that you take to heal yourself.

A drug is something that you take that may or may not heal you, may mask a symptom. It might be something that you take to experience any number of altered states of mind that may or may not be constructive or otherwise destructive. So I can call it a medicine. Medicine. So Ibegain is a plant root from Africa. Gabon? That's correct.

And what it is, is anything done to it besides taking it from its plant form and before it is basically turned into a medicine? Like beyond, you don't eat the root. You take it in some capsulized form or something like that, right? So Ibegain is one of several alkaloids which come from the Iboga tree, as used in traditional Gabonese ritual and medicinal settings, they actually eat the bark. And it's like plates, fulls of this stuff. And when I was in Gabon back in January, I had the opportunity to taste it. It is so bitter it burns.

Really? It is a very, very bitter medicine to take, which is very poetic because of what it will do with you once it gets a hold of you. As it's administered in Mexico and in other clinical settings, what they do is they process the ibogaine alkaloid out of the plant and they give it to you in a powderized form in a capsule. In a capsule? Yes, sir. Okay.

And then, as we've talked about, it's in a highly, you use the word clinical, clinical setting. I mean, you are monitored by a nurse or a nurse practitioner or a doctor because it does have physical potential for side effect, hard on the heart. Yes, sir. Right? It is a psychedelic. You go through a trip, as a lot of people. you know, do you like this analogy, Brian, someone told me once, okay, if, let me see if I can remember this correctly, if mushrooms on a 1 to 10 scale, if mushrooms are a 2 and ketamine is a 3, and LSD is a 6, Ibegain is a 9.

Oh, what do you think about that? I would say that I've a gain is likely it's a 10. It's a 10. And I'm speaking about not just what that introspective spiritual experience is. I'm speaking about its globalized impact on your mind and your body and your soul. It is the most powerful psychedelic on the planet. And I've heard folks referred to it as the Mount Everest of them all. What makes it unique is its intelligence.

I know that this sounds kooky. And, well, there's no one more surprised over the past four years to have said some of the things about this than I have. I mean, I've always been, my family's been Republican going back to the Civil War. I was president of the teenage Republicans in high school. Ronald Reagan was my personal hero. To speak about a plant having divine intelligence is not something that I would have ever articulated. But as I have come to learn and understand not just the Western scientific perspective, but the ancient Gabonese-Bowdy perspective, I have to say that I am persuaded.

It has this capacity to address us in ways that are unique to our individuality. It respects our free will. I have received abigating twice, not for any substance dependency or traumatic brain injury. I've always been under the belief that if I was going to get out and advocate for it, then I needed to be willing to take the medicine, especially in the face of the scaremonger and stigmatization. Both experiences together are without question, the most profound, spiritual experiences I have ever had in my life. They left,

the best way I can put it is this, you can hear something, you can agree with something, you can believe it. It's a whole other order of magnitude to know it. And there is no question in my mind about the reality of our eternal creator, about the reality of our identities as human beings

as a reflection of that creator, or the fact that we all have unique and individualized purpose. And I don't want to overconsume your time. But if you ever sit down and speak with somebody about their journeys, they are unbelievably powerful, unbelievably unique. There are common themes to all. Both of mine were unique to my own life experiences. And the two experiences aside from those things that are customarily happy in life, marrying and children, my abigant experiences are the most fabulous blessings I have received.

Wow. Yes, sir. So what got my attention, look, I appreciate you kind of couching this in sort of your background. I come from a Republican background, clearly a spiritual background as well, family man, as you just articulated, is the testimony. Okay, let me say a couple of things, and then you tell me if I could throw it. I began, as I have been led to understand, I have not done it. I don't think I've ever done a single psychedelic in my life. Yeah, I don't know.

It is not recreational. It is not a fun experience. It's not like a lot of drugs of like, hey, you want to hang out this weekend and do Ibrahimate? It is not that. You want to talk about the anti-climax to the party intention. You go ahead and hit you some Ibegain on you Saturday night and buckle up. 12, 18-hour trip? It's about a 12-hour trip in terms of its acute phase.

And what I mean by that is, You are in a state of semi-parallysis. You have to lay down. If you're going to get up to go and use the restroom, somebody has to get you. At all times, you are alert and you are a wire and you are cognizant. Right. I could sit here. I'd have to lay down, but I could lay down here and have a discussion with you if I was under the full throws.

Really? I didn't know that part. We could sit here and talk. Yes, we could. Would you be coherent? Yes, I would. Really? This is where it's so remarkable in terms of its respect for autonomy.

It's going to give you what you. what you ask it to give you. When I had my first experience right before, I was scared of death, and there was a fabulous lady who was my coach by the name of Renee Perez. And she said, look, it may not give you what you want. It's going to give you what you need, and it's going to respect you. If you don't want it, just open your eyes. And that's if a person goes into that introspective experience

and it's taking you places in your life experience, showing you aspects of your history that you may have forgotten, aspects of yourself that you need to be aware of. of and it becomes uncomfortable, you open your eyes and it's gone. And it's only going to engage you to the degree that you are willing to engage it. Interesting. It is an intelligent medicine, and it works with you at a cellular and deeply spiritual level. What got my attention, Brian, is A, that it's not recreational.

Okay. I become suspicious of reverse engineering things that people like to do and then find just, Like in the marijuana discussion, I think people have overly made marijuana a good. I think marijuana, like everything else in life, has its goods and its bads, right? But when you start to like something, you start to rationalize it. And I find that with a lot of drugs. People do something. They have fun with it.

They like it in some way. And then they start, like, becoming an evangelist for it. That's not the case with Ibogame. It's coming from people that tell me, this is not a pleasant experience. No. And so the second thing is it's coming from people like yourself or even maybe more unassailably, not culturally what you would think of as somebody advocating for psychedelics,

like the Latrell brothers, Morgan and Marcus Latrell, Governor Rick Perry. Like these are people that have seen the benefits, and this is where we should hammer in. What we're talking about this thing potentially, and you're going to challenge the potentially, and you should, help with is opioid addiction. He's a lot of different forms of addiction. Yes, sir. Marcus LaTrell says he quit Copenhagen. Yes, sir.

Nicotine, which I'm doing right now as we speak. You know, I know the power of addiction when it comes to this. Alcohol, traumatic brain injury from, you know, soldiers, PTSD from soldiers. This is what it's helping guys. And I have seen the difference in somebody. before and after and how they carry themselves, the weight they seem to carry. Literally, Marcus Lattrell's face looks different. Yes, sir.

When I went to, when I went from my first Ibegay treatment, I'm going to name this guy's name. I think he'd be comfortable with it. I flew down into San Diego on a Sunday night and was picked up at the airport to be taken to the Sheridan Hotel and then into Tijuana on Monday the next day. There was a guy standing about 20 feet down from me. He stooped shoulder, looking at the ground, kind of had that thousand-yard star.

He looked like he had been living at the bottom of a bottle for a long time. Coming from a family of our colleagues, you can recognize that. And I looked at him and I thought, I wonder if he's going to be on the van with me. And sure enough, he got on. I didn't say anything. We were going to the hotel, so I thought, well, I wonder if he's going to get on this best money to go down to this clinic.

Well, sure enough he did. His name is Brandon Glaser, Glazer, G-L-A-S-E-R. Glacier. And, well, I could tell this guy, he was a green beret veteran. He'd been in all sorts of combat theaters. This dude was at the end. You could tell that he mourned seeing the sun come up over him every day. I mean, dead-eyed and just totally bereft of anything that looked like life or vibrancy.

We get down there on Monday. we receive it on Tuesday night. Now, to the unpleasantness of it, you know, 85% of people are more will throw up repeatedly over the course of the 12 hours. I was in a room, treatment room with five other people. It sounded like everybody was dying all night long with the amount of throwing up that went on.

Now, fortunately, that didn't happen to me. But the next day is what they call your gray day following Wednesday. Think about the flu times 10. Now, I like to eat, and I like smoothies, and I like good things. I didn't drink, but maybe two ounces of fluid all day long. I laid up in bed in a fetal position wondering what in the world have I done.

I've made a terrible mistake. I mean, you're totally emotionally dysregulated. You feel absolutely terrible or I did. I finally got up to be able to go have breakfast on Thursday morning. And I sat down at the table and Brandon came walking up and sat down. I don't know what Jesus thought. when Lazarus took those wrappings off of his body. But I'm here to tell you, this man's entire countenance, the color of his skin, the clarity

of his eyes, the relaxation of that anger and resentment for being alive was gone. He was radiant. And the first thing I did, and I still felt terrible, I looked at him and I said, you have been transfigured. your aura is palpably different. He said, I have never felt so good in all my life. And he talked about how in his journey, he was walking along this beach shore cliff looking out over the ocean. And he had one of his grandchildren beside him.

And in the journey, the grandchild ran off and got away from him and fell off of the cliff. And he said, I watched my grandchild go down to the bottom of the cliff and die. He said, but I saw my grandchild's soul come out of their body and ascend. And he said, I was okay. I was okay. Now, you know, there were some anxieties around family that he brought to the table. But this man was personally, individually, and profoundly transformed. And I got to see it.

It just fabulous. I want to get to what happened last Saturday with President Trump. But just one more thing on helping people to understand what we're talking about with Ibegan. From what I have learned, again, I'm saying these things for you to tell me and correct me if I've got them wrong. There is, first of all, a psychological effect of you experiencing things that either have happened or have not happened, but you being able to essentially gain the emotional perspective of how to process these things. And I've heard that from people that's like you start to grapple with the concepts of guilt and content. control and an agency and ownership of your own role in your life.

In some ways, it absolves people, it sounds like to me, of this victimhood status psychologically. So for guys that have been in combat and they feel guilty for the actions they chose to take and maybe somebody died, one of their buddies died. They begin to be able to put all that in context more, whatever. But secondarily, or primarily, a partner effect of this is a physiological effect as well. Where, you know, and this is where I need your expertise, the brain starts to rehabilitate pathways, literal physiological connections in the brain, and this seems to interfere with what's going on with addiction and some other things. That's correct. There is, and I'm going to be very clear, it is not a now and forever more.

cure for anything. What it provides is a very significant neurological reset. There's a lady by the name of Dr. Gouldolin out of the University of California at Berkeley, a fabulously genius, neurobiologists. She has been able to quantify that among all the psychedelics Abigaine is unique in its capacity to essentially reopen the malleability of our brain to that which existed in emphasis for the longest, stretch of any of them, up to nine weeks. So much of the issues around addiction and mental health go with how the brain has been hardwired, either because of substance dependencies, because of the repetitious way in which people think, and this extends even under personality

disorders. Where there's just this hard-baked-in character that's developed through actions that turns into habits, that turns into character. In breaking these patterns is extremely difficult because once we go into adulthood, you can't get that brain to kind of open up and become subject to a more malleable influence that can kind of help you reform yourself. Ibegain shows a profound capacity to do that. And if you can think of taking somebody who's been imprisoned by a lifelong anything and give them a fresh neurological start

and a nine to perhaps 10-week open period where they are, as a child to relearn who they are, what their relationship to others in the world should be, you create the potential for profound change for the individual. And when that plays out at scale, if we do this right, it will improve the human condition at scale. Let's take a quick break. We continue this absolutely fascinating conversation with the CEO of Americans for Ibegain, Brian Hubbard here on Wilcane Country. Welcome back to Wilcane Country.

We're still hanging out with the CEO of Americans for Ibegain, Brian Hubbard. You use the word potential, and it also described to me as this sort of reset. I don't know if it's a blank slate, but an opportunity to build from a new building block where you get to erase the hardwiring building blocks, negative thinking patterns, substance abuse addiction, these kind of things, but it's not a cure. So when you say the word potential, and I remember, I went to an event here in Dallas, and I spoke to Robert Gallery. Robert Gallery was, I think Robert it was the second pick in the NFL draft by the Raiders, maybe fourth, offensive lineman, a lot of head collisions. And I went with a friend who also involved in football, and both of us were very intrigued by this question.

Is it a one and done thing, or is it that you need to do it over and over? And Robert explained he's done it, I think, two or three times. And the reason why he explained is he allowed himself afterwards to slip back into bad habits. So I don't know what that says to me. You know, Brian, like, is that undercut the pitch for it? Like, if I've got bad habits now and I go do this, what's going to keep me from just rebuilding my bad habits again, you know? I don't know.

Like, what do you think is the future of it? Is it a thing that people need to go back for multiple treatments? Is it for some people one and done? Like, what is the opportunity there? I think that it is unique to the, individual. Every person has had to walk their own pathway in this life. I think for many people, and this is most, and again, qualifying this on the basis of anecdotal, individualized, and even for the dozens and perhaps hundreds of people I've talked to, it's only a fraction of the

thousands that have now received this. I think for many, if they have a substance dependency issue, they will find that they take it once, and if they go back and understand that it is on them to maintain the gift of restoration that Ibegain has done and make right choices. It can be one and done. The one thing I have heard from individuals who have relapsed, and there have been a few, is they've said, you know, the difference between my times of relapse before when I was without supply or I tried to kick it and just couldn't. And an Ibegain relapse was I made the choice after Ivagane.

I chose to go back to an old behavior that I had used to comfort myself to take the or to take the drink or whatever. It wasn't something that I felt that I had to have. It was something that I chose to do because it was what was familiar and comfortable. For individuals who have neurological conditions that are degenerative, whether it's traumatic brain injury or CTE, it may very well be that we find that there is a more than one-time application over time. You know, let's bear in mind that the greatest prescription that's issued in America is the antidepressant.

what's called the evidence-based best practice for opioid treatment is the daily use of an opioid maintenance medication for what was supposed to be a pathway to abstinence, but has now had the goalpost move to take this every single day for the rest of your life. So in response to your concern, what I would say is that there are many people who will find one treatment is enough. There may be some who find that they have to have two or three. There may be others who, because of the neurology that we discover of particular conditions, may have to have it, you know, once every two to three years. Even that is a far sight. The bar should not be. My pitch to you is not that it's a miracle drug.

My pitch to you is it's way better than how we are approaching these things today. It's correct. We are talking about the improvement of treatment outcomes and the creation of medical scientific advancement around what this has the potential to do. I think we're going to see a lot of variation based on individual conditions. We're going to see a lot of variation just based on the unique nature of every person and what they may or may not have the capacity to do. I absolutely believe that we're going to do much better than we are no matter what.

All right, let's get to what happened. Now, so I saw you two weeks ago. You were on the Will Kane show. We talked in the office here a bit afterwards. You told me some of the hurdles that existed out there to getting – you want what Texas has done and more. You want clinical trials, approved clinical trials. One more quick background. Kentucky – you said it started in Kentucky, right?

You're a Kentucky guy, but this really took off in Texas, now gaining steam other places. I'll say it. You tell me if you think this is unfair. Didn't the governor, Andy Bashir, put an end to this in Kentucky? Did that happen? Well, there were three actors who worked together. Andy Bashir did not have direct control over this project, but within an hour of its announcement on May the 31st of 23, he came out in a press conference and denounced it. He was joined very quickly by the University of Kentucky's Center for Drug and Alcohol Research.

And then the individual who ultimately terminated the project by demanding that I resigned for do it is the current. Kentucky Attorney General. If you go and look at a little research that was done around IBAGane Project in Kentucky, you will find that there is a common nexus of financial interest among those three actors. And this is very important. Big Pharma. That's correct. The mission to advance IvaGane has bipartisan, bipartisan support. This is a Republican and Democrat unity issue. It's also a unity issue on the other side. It has bipartisan opposition. Now, that opposition, since Kentucky, has been muted. I mean, the legislative margins that have approved these measures post-Texas,

and even within Texas itself, have been overwhelmingly lopsided. I mean, there is an unstoppable degree of momentum around this at this point. But if Kentucky is a microcosm for the country, and in many ways it is, you have elected state leadership that has been in service to the pharmacological, in the pharma industry, and in particular the opioid industry. There at home is something called addiction recovery care that is under federal investigation and probably what's going to be the biggest criminal fraud scheme by a provider of addiction recovery services in America.

ARC was a significant contributor to Andy Beshear, a significant contributor to Kentucky Attorney General who recused himself from the investigation of this case two days after the FBI announced the active nature of its investigation. As it pertains to Andy Beshear, there is one other very important point to make about him. He was a law partner at the law firm that represented Purdue Pharma against the people of Kentucky for all the killing and drug dependency that they caused in that state while he was a partner there. A case that was valued at $1 billion was ultimately settled for $24 million. dollars because Andy Beshear's law firm had now practiced the case and was facing liquidation

if that judgment was rendered. So in what was a midnight deal between the outgoing Attorney General and Purdue Pharma days before Andy became the Attorney General for Kentucky, the people of Kentucky were sold out on the altar of Purdue Pharma and what can only be described as a Judas 30 pieces of silver deal. Wow. Kentucky media has been very diligent about keeping this buried. They have spent a lot of time, elevating and celebrating a man who should have been interrogated

out of public relevancy. The national media template that is building around him has been directly lifted from Kentucky media. President. Yes, sir. He talked about as the Democrat for president. And the reason that he's talked about that way is because of the narrative that Kentucky media has allowed him to build around himself as this church deacon, Sandy school teacher, Mr.

Rogers neighbor, who's just going to come in there and love you to pieces and do everything he can to help you. The real record is this. First of all, is the betrayal, his profit from the betrayal of the people of Kentucky by the sellout to Purdue Farman. Now, whether he was actively involved representing them. I think there's a strong case to make that he was. At a minimum, he profited from the sellout of Kentucky to Purdue Pharma. It's a fact. And I've got the documentation to prove it. The other thing that's important to know is that at the outset of COVID, he locked Kentucky down harder than Gavin Newsom locked down in California. You have an entire generation of public school children who have been educationally hobbled by not being able to access the classroom for

almost a year and a half. You had the mass unemployment that was caused in the state where everybody who had a small business, everybody had a job was thrown out of the ability to feed themselves. He maintained the Butler staff and the governor mansion all during that shutdown. The state of employment system collapsed because of the sheer demand for unemployment benefits for people to live. They literally placed Andy Beshear's family members and contributed to and friends at the front of the line used the director of the unemployment agency to valet them to get their checks first. And when all this was publicly uncovered, Andy scapegoated a guy by the name of Muncie McNamara, who was the director of the State Unemployment Office, and he ended up killing himself. Really?

Andy Beshear claims credit for the progress in the state of Kentucky that has been governed now since 2018. by Republican supermajorities in both houses of the legislature. He has vetoed 90% of the legislation that the Kentucky State Legislature has passed with those Republican supermajorities, and they have overridden him almost every single time. He has been a unique governor. And everything for which he claims credit is owed to that legislature. And the sooner the American people know that this guy is a snake in sheep's clothing, the better. lest it be thought that I'm saying this simply because I'm a Republican and I'm being partisan.

One of my greatest political heroes in life is a guy by the name of Douglas Wilder, who was the first elected black governor in the state of Virginia. Democrat? He was old school. He believed in small government. He believed in accountability. And he is a heroic figure. There have been many wonderful Democrats who have contributed to the progress of American history. as a Republican and a emancipationist Republican, I would say here and now, I would be glad to volunteer my time and my effort to any Democrat who aspires to be pressed into the United States in 28 to make sure that Andy Beshear never sniffs the sewer grade of the White House. J.B. Pritzker, Gavin Newsome. Let's not go that far yet. Any of them, any of them, any of them. Any of them. how you feel about Andy Prussia, and I think that suggests we should continue to talk about this.

Thank you. By the way, on Big Pharma, I would have to guess there's going to be a massive financial campaign against the progress of Ibegain at some point or co-opting of it. They're going to take it, they're going to make it there somehow and figure out to make a ton of money off of it because you're disrupting a huge business model. So here are the two dangers. I agree with you when it comes to the ambition to turn it into its own Frankenstein, I'm sure is there. If there can be a way to figure out how to manipulate, how to change, how to alter, how to create a Frankenstein monster from it. So you can sell somebody something much more often than even three or four times in their life. Yes, sir. That danger is there. Here's the bigger danger. I don't think it's going to be some, big, well-funded campaign to try to stop it. President Trump's executive order directs three

massive bureaucracies that are not known to have a record of efficiency, responsiveness, accountability, or obedience to the American people to take specific actions to make this happen. FDA? FDA, the Veterans Administration, and the DEA. Okay. Those three have unique individual operational cultures that have their own rationale for resistance to the emergence of psychedelic medicine in America. As thrilled as I am with what happened in Saturday, I've already stopped celebrating because there has got to be committed white-hot focus on holding bureaucracy accountable to move these things forward, to move them forward expeditiously.

because if we're not vigilant, there's going to be foot dragging and administrative mitigation through bureaucratic suffocation. Okay, let's talk about what's next, but we'll do that by setting it up with what happened. Two weeks ago, I see you, we talk about it. You tell me the hurdles, you told me some of the hurdles that exist to getting Ibogaine on the path to real research in America for potential approval, right, as a medicine of opportunity in America. Then I look up on that Saturday. I got a few rumbling something, but I didn't know what. And there you are. You're with Rogan, the Latrell brothers, Marty McCary, Jay Batatariya, RFK, in the Oval Office with President Trump.

Okay. Rogan tells the story that he texted President Trump a bunch of research about Ibogaine, and President Trump responded, great, what do you need? FDA approval? and next thing you know you're in the Oval Office? It went down about something like that. When Governor Perry and I went and visited with him on March of 31st, and I had emailed his producer and I said, hey, we've got a big update we'd like to give you. Ultimately, we're here to ask for the President of the United States

to get involved in this because it's not going to happen unless he does. So Governor Perry and I went in. We were interviewed within the interview. I articulated the need for presidential action. And then when the headphones came off and the cameras were off, I elected Mr. Rogan and Governor Perry there, and I said, we need a favor. He said, what's that? And I said, we need you to ask the president of the United States

if he's willing to have a meeting about this with you, with Marcus the Trail, and me. Would you be willing to ask him for that meeting? He said, yep, let me get to work on it. see what I can do. I said, all right. So on April the 10th, Governor Perry activated a text chain with Mr. Rogan, myself, and Marcus LaTrell, and he said, opened it up this text chain to track a potential visit with the president. Godspeed, boys. And then that same day, Mr. Rogan advised that he had made contact with the president, sent him a message, and was going to be

seeing him at the UFC fight in Miami on. Saturday, which was April the 11th. So your audience, if they're watching TV, may have seen where there was President Trump came into the UFC fight, saw Mr. Rogan, went over, and there was all this conspiracy theory about what was said and what was done and all that. Well, what was said was, was the president walked over to Mr. Rogan and leaned in and said, it's done, meaning we're going to get this done. So that's what that was about at the UFC fight.

So between the order went from President Trump to Secretary Kennedy, Secretary Kennedy instructed his staff. I'd kind of come up with a wish list of what were the absolute necessary essentials that needed to be in this executive order. And it was translated into a document and it was reviewed, revised, and put on his desk, and there we stood at 9 a.m. on Saturday, April the 18th. And I've just got to say, Will, that to stand next to the desk of Roosevelt, Eisenhower,

Kennedy, Nixon, and Reagan, and to say that federal prohibition of psychedelic medicine and the United States is over is an event of such surreal, fabulous bliss, I cannot thank God enough for giving me the privilege to be up there to do that. And thank Mr. Rogan. You worked so long and then for it to happen in such a short, not that the previous work didn't influence it, but then it's like, then it hits light speed in a short amount of time. Yes, sir. That's got to feel weird. Do you remember, and I'm not going to, I'm going to assume you a younger gentleman than I am.

I don't know. We're going to leave it damn big of us for the audience. I was born in 1975 and considered October 75, and we're among that bicentennial children cohort. I couldn't remember when in 1989 after President Reagan left office, and people started gathering around the Berlin Wall. And they started milling around and started spray painting it a little bit, and more and more people started coming out, and they started taking little chunks off of it here and there. And, I mean, it was a little while. But all of a sudden, a big slab came down. And then all of a sudden, the whole thing came down and the Cold War was over.

And people could not believe how fast it happened. What's been remarkable about this is to see this full circle convergence on this specific issue between what I really think is a very special unity opportunity between left and right. You know, psychedelics have the stigma that they do because there was absolutely a hedonistic debauchous element within the movement that really desecrated what their intended purposes are. they did. And you can see the images of it, and there were a lot of young people who were perhaps not understanding the damage that they were causing, but other folks had been trying to steward for millennia, and folks in Native America with peyote and other cultures that have used these medicines for eons. At the same time, the emergence of psychedelics in the left-wing counterculture of the late 60s was a direct response to the dehumanizing impact of the

exercise of criminal power by the U.S. government as they perceived it to be. I think for a lot of us who happen to be from, you know, the right side of the political spectrum, when we look at the past 30 years of America life, and we've talked a little bit about this on your show, whether it's the creation of the opioid epidemic, the 2008 financial crisis, which continues to home us, or the way in which the premise of war has been established for the 25 years, there's a lot of people in red America in what are the descendants of Nixon's silent majority who have to stand back at it all and say there has been a tremendous amount of dehumanizing impact from the criminal exercise of power by our government it's caused us tremendous damage and the first thing we've got to

do is recover as a society to rebuild our social fabric from the ground up and try and turn this thing around. We cannot have another 30 years like we've had the past 30. And with the changes that are coming around AI that are going to fundamentally impact the trajectory of human evolution, what President Trump has done has given us a fabulous civics project to work on together in our bicentennial year. And that is to hold what has customarily been now for decades, corrupted, impudent, federal bureaucracies accountable to make broad-based humanitarian progress that can improve the human condition in America and globally. What a great birthday present that we have given the country. And now, with the time we've got on the runway of our life, let's honor it and make it happen.

Man, I know this sounds like trivial comparatively, but I'm happy for you as a person. I really am. And I put that out. I was going to tell you this when the mics turn off. I can say now, this would not have happened, obviously. This is stating the obvious without you as a person. And I would add Governor Perry to that because there's a lot of great heroes in this who've done a lot of things. But if any other two people might have been the champions of this, I don't think it would have happened. It required the charisma, the articulation.

The point of view, I think it required to come from the right, not from the left, because the motivations are more pure in people's minds. And also, Governor Rick Perry of Texas, all of this made you two figures that I don't think it could have happened had there been two other figures who were trying to drive this. And so I'm personally happy for you. I'm happy for the country and what this potentially represents as well. and all the people that I've met who give incredible testament about this. It's really, really, really good to see you, Brian. Well, well, thank you for your kind words for me. The victory belongs to the people of this country.

There are many servants who've suffered for decades to make this happen, and I certainly stand on their shoulders and express my deepest gratitude for what they have had to carry to make it possible. And I thank you because of your voice of influence and the way in which you are seen as an honest, straightforward arbiter of concrete reality. Your willingness to think about this constructively, open-mindedly, and then

supportively has been an indispensable ingredient to our success. Thank you. I'm honored. All right, Brian Hubbard, T.O. Americans for Albu again. Congratulations. Thank you, sir. All right. That's going to do it for us today on this long, extended version of Will Cain Country.

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