Will Cain Country - Does Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Have A Point?

Episode Date: June 19, 2023

Story #1: At least he is trying: RFK Jr. Story #2: A USA-Mexico soccer match is stopped because of a gay slur.   Story #3: A conversation with FOX Sports College Football Analyst, Joel Klatt, on Deion Sanders, Nick Saban, and the SEC.   Tell Will what you thought about this podcast by emailing [e-mail]    Follow Will on Twitter: @WillCain Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For a limited time at McDonald's, enjoy the tasty breakfast trio. Your choice of chicken or sausage McMuffin or McGrittles with a hash brown and a small iced coffee for $5.5 plus tax. Available until 11 a.m. at participating McDonald's restaurants. Price excludes flavored iced coffee and delivery. One. At least he's trying. Two, the USA-Mexico soccer match stopped because of a gay slur. We cannot protect people from bad words. Three, a conversation with Fox Sports Joel Clatt about Dion Sanders, Nick Sabin, and the SEC.

It's the Wilcane podcast on Fox News podcast. What's up? And welcome to Monday. Welcome to a new week. As always, I hope you will download, rate, and review this podcast wherever you get your audio entertainment at Apple, Spotify, or at Fox News Podcast. You can check out the Will Cain podcast on YouTube, where we are absolutely crushing it.

To keep up with all of the updates of the Will Cain show, follow me on Twitter at Will Cain. I told you last week that I would have a story. I told you last week that I was headed off noodling. I had some people ask me, what is noodling? Well, noodling is the style of fishing that requires no pole, requires no bait. You are the bait, made famous probably a decade ago on reality television,

but always present in the backwoods. Noodling is getting down in the lake, in the muddy water, seeking out a hole, and sticking your hand up in that hole, in the hope that a catfish, a gigantic catfish, sometimes north of 100 pound catfish bites down on your forearm at the same time you grab him by the insides and wrestle and pull him out to the surface

now don't get me wrong I've never noodled but my stepdad is from East Texas so what's the difference we set up a trip last week the two of us to go out to Toledo Ben Reservoir It's a gigantic reservoir in East Texas.

And he had a connect. He knew some guys. He knew some guys that hog hunt in the backwoods who noodle for fun, not run a guide service, just, well, they just noodle. And they were going to take us out there. And I got to tell you, I was nervous. I don't really get nervous. I'm not trying to act like I'm the most brave or daring guy. in the world, but I don't get that nervous about some things. I get nervous about heights,

but that doesn't stop me from doing things related to height. I will still jump out of an airplane. I will still cliff dive into the ocean, but I am nervous. I don't like heights. My palm sweat in the movie cliffhanger. I don't like standing on the top of the Empire State Building. That story about the guy who fell off of the skywalk at the Grand Canyon, 4,000 feet to his death, it made me shiver while I read the newsprint. I don't like heights, but that probably makes me walk to the edge of heights. So I don't get that nervous, but I was nervous about noodling. And in part, that's because I got a video in the days leading up to it of gigantic alligators sitting on the bank of some river, some lake out there in East Texas, getting ready to take down a gigantic hog.

I didn't even think about the prospect. of alligators. I was too worried about getting a gigantic barb. Those barbs off the side of a catfish that always get you in the hand when you catch a normal sized catfish. But a 50-pounder, an 80-pounder, a 110-pounder? How big is that barb? How does that work? And how do I wrestle them without getting one of those in the ribs? I got to tell you, I was nervous. But the trip was canceled because we had bad weather in Texas midweek last week. Reports were there were white caps at Toledo Bin. So the noodling trip has been postponed.

And as I get more ingrained into East Texas, I can add noodling to my resume that now includes squirrel hunting. Fancy. Story number one, at least he's trying. RFK. You know, one of my most treasured compliments that I ever got when I was hosting the Will Cane show on ESPN Radio, which was an environment that often found listeners that may not be lockstep in agreement with me, ideologically or politically, but would still listen largely because we had a commonality, a table around which to gather, and that was our love of sports. And one of my favorite compliments that I would get,

with this diverse dinner party where the main course was always, the Dallas Cowboys or LeBron James, was it when we would go into the side dishes of politics or sports, race, or culture, that one of the things that I would hear is, will I disagree with what you have to say, but I'm always interested in listening to why it is you believe what it is you believe. And they suggested the reason for that openness was, yes, in part my openness, to hearing their point of view, but also the sense that I was trying. I am being real about arriving at my point of view. I'm not trying to hide facts.

I'm not trying to, you know, play three-car Monty with the truth. I'm trying to drive forward directly in an honest fashion in some pursuit of the truth. That's not a compliment you can readily extend to very many politicians. It is a business centered around the idea of spin. Take the facts, take the stats, and twist and turn them, manipulate them into some shadow of the truth, some moral truth, some deeper truth, some agenda, your propaganda. We're surrounded by propaganda in modern American society. We have politicians who readily lie. We have mainstream media who not just echo, but amplify those lies.

We're surrounded by lies in our social life. When we scroll through Instagram, we see the best version of everyone's vacation. We see the best version of everyone's workout. We see the best version of everyone's day. Everywhere we go, we are presented this curated, manipulated, falsehood of a life. so when we encounter someone or some thing some conversation that we think might be real I mean it's a dehydrated man walking across the Mahavi stumbling upon a glass of ice water I think in there you find the appeal of RFK Jr.

I would offer to Robert F. Kennedy Jr. the same compliment that I was once extended. I don't agree with much of what he has to say. I don't share an ideology. I probably don't share solutions with Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. But I appreciate my belief that he is trying honestly, earnestly, to seek out the truth. RFK Jr. made an appearance last week on the Joe Rogan podcast. On that podcast, they discussed a host of issues.

They discussed the COVID-19 vaccine. but they went further. They discussed vaccines in general. They talked about Wi-Fi, and Robert F. Kennedy Jr. shared his opinion that Wi-Fi in 5G were having detrimental health effects on modern humans. They talked about chemicals in the food supply and in the water that are turning the frogs gay,

which was, I believe, a beet pie. pioneered by Alex Jones. They talked about a whole host of issues that you're not supposed to discuss. They talked about a whole litany of subjects that are outside the box. And I don't know. I don't know if RFK Jr. is right. I don't know if he's correct in his assessment of all of these issues. But I do get the sense that he's thinking.

that he's thoughtful, that he's trying, that he's searching for the truth. Look, even that, I will tell you, I don't say with 100% confidence. I have some of my own questions about RFK Jr. I wonder how he could go through such a conversion, meaning I've seen him speak as adamantly about climate change as I've seen him speak about vaccines. I believe I've seen him say that climate deniers should be thrown in jail. So I would have some serious questions about the honesty of his conversion away from that position about his pursuit of the truth. But I wouldn't shout him down.

I wouldn't yell for censorship. I wouldn't simply mock him. In the wake of that interview with Joe Rogan, that is primarily. What you saw in the form of a rebuttal, all across social media, and to the extent it was addressed or acknowledged by mainstream media, it was really just met with derision, with smirks, with sneering, with smugness, with mockery. It's the same tool. It's the same attitude. It's the same position that we've seen from individuals. individuals and institutions in this country for the past five plus years that simply for most

no longer works and in fact explains the potential appeal of someone like RFK Jr. Whatever the issue when it came to COVID, vaccine efficacy, the ability of the vaccine to stop transmission, the need for two, three, four, five boosters, the back and four, recommendation of whether or not we should wear masks, the need, the cost-benefit analysis on a vaccine for our children, the lockdown of our schools, election integrity, a whole host of issues when it comes to Donald Trump. We were offered up not reason. We were offered up not persuasion. We were offered up dogma, sloganeering. We were offered up dicta. Do this.

This is what is dictated. And no question the science. If anyone dared to step out of line, if anyone dared to, in fact, question the science. If anyone dared to question the slogan, they were censored. They were tossed out of the conversation, as was Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. So it isn't met today, or it isn't a surprise today, to see that same rhetorical trick, that same sleight of hand, that same dishonesty used as a rebuttal for RFK Jr. Is he a crackpot? Is he a conspiracy theorist?

Is he a grifter? Why don't you try laying out your case? Instead of simply offering up an ad homonym attack. and pine away for the days in which you could silence men like RFK. There is a desire in this country, I believe, after having been manipulated so consistently, to simply see an honest broker, to simply look for someone who's trying, for someone who is earnest. I'm not sure that qualifies one for president. I'm not sure that's enough.

I'm not even sure it's a necessary but sufficient component. There's so many other requirements to being president of the United States, good judgment, Machiavellian strategy, humility. But I don't know that the nation right now can turn to anyone else. Anyone else has a friend, anyone else as a leader, who doesn't at least offer them the pretense of authenticity. I simply can't scroll through my Twitter feed and take seriously anyone anymore whose only tool has been for the past decade mockery criticism, derision, and censorship. I can't take them seriously.

And does that sign me up once again to be labeled a conspiracy theorist? Well, so be it because conspiracy theorists, as we well know at this point, or they're on a hot one. Conspiracy theorists are on a good run. I want to see conversations like that between Joe Rogan, RFK Jr. I want to see one of the leaders of the capital. Science, Peter Hotez, who has been the target of an online campaign designed to bring him onto the Joe Rogan podcast to debate RFK Jr. after years of telling people that you're going

to need two boosters. Now, it turns out you're going to need three boosters. Sorry, not quite enough as it turns out you're going to need four boosters. And by the way, your children should be boosted. I want to see someone like Peter Hotez brought into the debate. And once again, it's simply discredits you if you say, and they are saying this today, that you can't debate people like RFK Jr. I get it. I understand the point that he is capable of rattling off study after study after study. And I don't know the veracity of all those studies. But I do know that you don't arrive at the truth through silence and darkness. You alive at the truth through debate and light, through transparency, through courage, through the battle of ideas.

I want to see Peter Hotez take on RFK Jr. And if everyone's position, if the is so strong, if the derision is so warranted, surely there's some champions, surely there's some hero that you can marshal, surely there is some opponent to RFK Jr. That you can challenge to enter the arena and readily make a fool. of the man you find so readily the target of your smug mockery. But debate too, debate like persuasion, debate like reason, debate like transparency is beneath our ministers of propaganda, is beneath our moral betters, beneath those who for everything that might challenge their

worldview and point of view is a conspiracy theory. Now, we need more RFK juniors. We need more honesty, more earnestness. We need more people trying to find the truth. We'll be right back with more of the Will Kane podcast. Book Club on Monday. Jim on Tuesday. Date night on Wednesday. Out on the town on Thursday. Quiet night in on Friday. It's good to have a routine. And it's good for your eyes too. Because with regular comprehensive eye exams at Specsavers, you'll know just how healthy they are. Visit Spexavers.caver's.cai to book your next eye exam. Iexams provided by independent optometrists. Following Fox's initial donation to the Kerr County Flood Relief Fund,

our generous viewers have answered the call to action across all Fox platforms and have helped raise $7 million. Visit Go.Fox forward slash TX flood relief to support relief and rebuilding efforts. story number two you cannot protect people from bad words last week the united states took on mexico in the conca calf nations league cup is semifinals and it's a big rivalry it's actually one of the biggest rivalries in sports USA Mexico is intense if you never watched a USA Mexico soccer match it's well worth your attention and your time It's entertainment.

It is intense. Both on the field and in the stands, it always feels like it's about to spill over into violence. But it hasn't, and it's simply a heated competition. The U.S. smoked Mexico and Las Vegas three to nothing in the semifinals. But the match, which got very heated, and there were multiple red cards, I believe, three different players. thrown out of the game, was ultimately stopped a few minutes short because the crowd of Mexican fans several times erupted into a homophobic chant in Spanish. First, the referees paused the game and all the players on the field had to just stand

around and talk while the crowd was attempted to be silenced just through patience. But once play resumed, the Mexico fans once again in unison erupted into this chant that has been deemed homophobic. Ultimately, the game was called just a few minutes short. It didn't affect the outcome of the game. But it reflected the seriousness with which soccer, FIFA, are taking things like racism and homophobia. and bad words. The fight against bad words is a growing fight across the sports world. We've heard stories coming out of the NFL where there are reports of players on the field using the N-word or players on the basketball court in the NBA using the F word. And these words become national

news stories with a Scotland yard type investigation into who heard what, who might have uttered this in the middle of a scrum along the line of scrimm whose feelings might have been hurt. I'm not suggesting that there's some excuse for using these slurs. At one of my son's soccer games a few weeks ago, he told me there was almost a fight at the end of the game, and he said the reason for the fight was

that one of the players on the other team called one of his teammates the N-word. I was pretty shocked. were 14 or 15 year olds. And I couldn't believe that they were out there the minute you think that racism doesn't exist or it's totally extinguished in America. And I never thought it didn't exist, but I do think it is on the decline. You get an incident like this where a 14 or 15 year old boy has to hear the N-word in the middle of a select league soccer game. And for what it's worse, whatever images in your mind, this wasn't a bunch of white boys calling a black boy

the N-word. For whatever it's worth, these were a couple of Latino boys calling a black boy the N-word. And I was upset. I was upset in an empathetic way for my son's teammate. Obviously every time something is personal, it's so easy then to put yourself in the seat of empathy when something is far away, rather than when something is far away and theoretical, and it's always a lesson to remember. But ultimately, there is no referee, there is no league, there is no rule that's going to be able to control the behavior of anyone, of individuals, much less than entire crowd. You know, I told my son after that game, if that happens, you have my, my complete permission to get in a fist fight in that game. You have my complete permission to take

up for your teammate. In fact, I expect you to. I expect you to step up. I expect you to have his back. Now, I'm not completely right in that lesson as a father. I want him to have his friends back and I think ultimately the check and balance inside of this society is strength, not weakness. You can't outsource strength to rules and to referees. You can only really exhibit strength and make people pay the price in the most immediate of terms. If I had a friend at school, if my son had a friend at school who was being bullied, I would expect my son to step up, break the rules of school, and fight, literally fight for his friend. It's more important to be a good man in this world than it is to be a nice man. And it's not always one in the same. Nice men too often

go along to get along, follow the rules into a place of darkness, into a place away from good. Don't focus on being nice, focus on being good. But my advice to my son wasn't perfect because in the realm of sports, words are just tools. And words, as the famous saying goes, are sticks and stones that do not break your bones. Words are designed to get you off your game. If my son had gotten a fight for his friend or my son's teammate had gotten a fight because of the words, have been tossed out of the game. They might have been tossed out of the league. They may have been penalized for several games. They would have compromised their team. They might have lost that game. That might have lost numerous games going forward. And the player who said

those words would have gotten the better of my son or of his teammate. But that's the only real mechanism I think that you can have in this world to control this. How is FIFA, first of all, What moral ground does FIFA have to stand on in stopping and pausing games because they've heard bad words, specifically bad words when it comes to homophobia? FIFA just held a World Cup in Qatar, where homosexuality is illegal. And now they're going to pause a game because someone used a homophobic slur. Excuse me, there's a log in your eye as you look at the spec in the way. the eye of the Mexican crowd. And what more, you're not going to control the behavior of crowds.

You're not going to get them to stop that by stopping a game or pausing a game. You're not going to control the behavior of your fellow man, not through weakness, only through strength. And strength comes in one of two fashions. It comes in the form of stoicism, deal with it. You heard a bad word. If you show reaction to that bad word, they're going to do it more. If it gets you off your game, you're going to hear it more. If it ruffles your feathers and pulls you out of your mind, you're going to hear it more. You're only going to find strength through stoicism or, honestly, through violence, through aggression. Those are the

only two ways. And by the way, rules are only sanctioned violence. You've got to throw somebody off a field. You've got to throw somebody out of a game. You've got to throw somebody in jail when it comes to a law. You've got to, you know, rules, laws are nothing but sanctioned violence. Those are the only two forms of strength you're going to find to stop this behavior. And acknowledging your limits and your ability to show aggression to a crowd, you might as well give full weight to the strength of stoicism. Progressive thoughts.

leads you ultimately back to the regression of timeless wisdom. Sticks and stones may break my bones, but your words will never hurt me. We're going to step aside here for a moment. Stay tuned. Why just survive back to school when you can thrive by creating a space that does it all for you, no matter the size. Whether you're taking over your parents' basement or moving to campus, IKEA has hundreds of design ideas and affordable options to complement any budget. After all, you're in your small space era. It's time to own it.

Shop now at IKEA.ca. Story number three. Joel Clatt is Fox Sports College Football Analyst. He's the host of the Joel Clat podcast. He's also launched a new series called Big Noon Conversations. A podcast you can download. You can check out. We have long-form conversations so far with the head coach of the Colorado Buffaloes, Dion Sanders,

and today the head coach of the Alabama Crimson Tide Nick Sabin. Before the drop of that episode with Nick Sabin, Joel Clat hopped with us on here at the Will Kane podcast to discuss these new big noon conversations. Here's Joel Clat. Joel Clat, what's up? It's good to see you again, man. Yeah, great to be with you. I hope you're doing well, man. It's always fun to chat. There's no doubt. Yeah, I'm glad to have you on the show. I'm excited to check out the Joel Klatt Show, Big Noon Conversations. I've already listened to Episode 1, Dion Sanders.

And episode 2 is up now. It's Nick Sabin. So let's talk through these two guys for a minute. You can tell us what you're getting out of these longer conversations. Dion, first of all, did you find out, did you know that he's on the verge of having his foot hamper? We didn't talk about, we didn't talk about his foot. And you know, what's interesting is that, like, he doesn't bring it up ever, you know. So to me, it's so fascinating because someone that would be on the verge of something so big from a medical standpoint, you know, you would know it. But he permeates such a different energy when you're around him and such a positivity about not only life, but the program. So, I knew that he's been struggling with his foot. I did not know to what degree, and he didn't bring it up one time. He didn't complain one time. He didn't say, my foot's hurting, anything like that. So I did think that that was fairly interesting.

But these conversations have been so fun, Will, because I don't think, these guys don't get a chance to talk about things other than their own team a lot, right? And they don't get a chance to talk about the sport more globally, which I think is really important. And that's what I tried to create for them as a forum where they could weigh in on what, you know, it has become really important topics from an overarching standpoint in college football. Yeah, you asked Dion about his position on both NIL and the transfer portal. And of course, he was pretty positive on both because I'm not saying his opinion follows his success, but he has been very successful in both NIL and in the transfer portal.

He has, and he's always going to be pro player, you know, so the things that give the player more autonomy, freedom, the things that allow a player to go and monetize their individuality and their success, I think that's probably more so. What he did, I won't say complain about, but what I think was fascinating if you go back and listen, those of you who are, listening to this is he talks about how he is he loves NIL and the players that go out and play well should get paid and not only paid but like you know allowed to earn from name image and likeness obviously but then he said the problem is the collective so if you don't know what a collective is a collective is basically a school sanctioned booster club that goes out there and raises a bunch of money under a 501c3 and then they just give it to players as really inducements to get them to come to their school, whether it's a high school

kid or in the transfer portal, and they just kind of pay them that money and then maybe they do a social post or anything. But there's not a real business associated to it. You're not really getting anything from a benefit of the name image and likeness. So he takes issue with the collective. He says, I got problems with the collective, basically saying we're giving money to kids that have not earned it based on nothing because we think they're going to be good, but we have to give it to them because someone else is going to give it to them in a form of an inducement. So I thought that was not only fascinating, but, you know, somewhat profound in terms of where we need to go in college football, in terms of eliminating collectives or at least minimizing their impact on how kids are

recruited. You know, Joel, when we first made our way, when we first launched the boat on NIL, I was still at ESPN. I remember having this conversation on the Will Kane show that we just We just need to be honest about what we're doing. We just need to be honest about where we're headed. Because what we've done and what Deion and you highlighted there with the collectives is we've basically legalized the 1980s in college football. And you could argue it was always there anyway, not just in the 1980s, meaning dropping the bag of cash off, buying the Cadillac, buying the car, you know, all the things that

SMU got in trouble for are now exactly what's happening in college football. But here's what I would say to that, even if you, quote, unquote, you know, did away with collectives or made them illegal. I just don't think this is a needle that can be threaded. You know, I always said, I always said there's going to be some business. There's going to be some business where the CEO is a big fan of Pick Your University, and he's going to pay some player, even though there's no real marketing interest to that business because he wants him to play for his school.

And you're never going to be able to parse it out. You're never going to, you're never able to say, hey, why is this kid getting paid? Couldn't agree more. And there's two reasons. One is because we're in this pseudo-ameterism model where it's not an employee-employee relationship. So there's not a union and there's not a collectively bargained agreement. So that's one of the reasons. And I'll get to that in a moment. And then the second reason is it's a totally irrational market because it's not really based on marketability of a player's name, image, and likeness. which was the intent, but rather just, like you said, an alum has a bunch of money, you know, face of a company, CEO of a company, and just wants to spend a bunch of money in order to make his team better. That's a totally irrational market. So two things. We cannot expect free market principles to govern the NIL market space in college athletics. It's just not going to happen because it's irrational. Then the next part of this is that when the only form of payment is in the

NIL space and it's not in the employment space, well, then that's what's going to be, that's what's going to be exploited. You see, if, if in my estimation, if the players somehow were organized and they, they formed some sort of association and you could collectively bargain with that association, then you could put up real guardrails about everything from NIL deals to how many times they transfer to when they transfer. But until that happens, we're still in this, like, you know, dancing around this amateurism model and the NCAA still wants to kind of be involved. So right now it's a bit of a mess. And to your point, there is no fixing it without major structural changes to the relationship between the player, the institution, and the program.

Yeah, it's not, it's not just an irrational market. It's just a false market. It's a fake market. And truthfully, Joel, you know where NIL has become, in my estimation, the most honest? It's in the place that's actually receiving some of the most criticism, at least recently. There was an article up. I can't remember who wrote this article, not just the author, but the publication, talking about women's sports and the women that have gotten NIL deals. And basically, the truth behind women NIL deals right now is the hot athletes are getting deals. It's the Cavender Twins who were the basketball players at Miami. And they're good. they're not great basketball players, but they're good looking.

And then there's the gymnast at LSU. She's also good, but I don't think she's the best gymnast in the country. But that being said, it's an honest market because they're truly getting paid for name, image, and likeness. They're famous, their looks play a role in it, and therefore their endorsements have true market value. It doesn't mean that as long as we're dancing around to your point and avoiding pain, players for their athletic ability to be employees of a university, that's as good as you can hope what's happening with the women's side of the market. Well, and that's not new in women's athletics. That's been the case for a long time, whether it's the LPGA golf tour, whether it's

tennis. You know, this is that, not the monopoly, but the bulk of the resources going to the women who are most attractive which draw the most eyeballs was a free market principle and that's what's playing out in what I would call and consider non-revenue sports. Now, here's where I do think it's also really

great is someone like a Caitlin Clark at Iowa also is out there and doing great based on her play. Obviously, you know, she's a beautiful girl as well, but she is an unbelievable basketball player and can go out there and earn dollars

as such. The men's market is way different. You either have to be an incredible player and get out there and be able to, you know, your Bryce Youngs of the world, who is the Heisman trophy winner and now with Carolina. Caleb Williams is crushing it right now. They're great players. They're the face of college football. Or it's happening in the form of inducements. We want you, Player X, to come here and play for us. And we're going to give you X hundreds of thousands of to do it, that certainly wasn't the intention for NIL in the first place. Or I'd add a third category, and that would be nepotism. But nepotism is more nefarious sounding than what it actually is.

It's just existing name recognition. So Archmanning is going to get, he hasn't taken them, but he could get NIL deals that outpace his actual proven playing ability to this point because of his last name. And I would say the same thing for Shador Sanders, who is the quarterback at Colorado, who is Dion's son. I mean, some of that NIL money he's getting, is because his last name is Sanders.

Yeah, but this is the only way I'll push back. How's that different than the Kavanaugh twins or Olivia Dunn? Because their name is drawing eyeballs, right? So in some respect, that is a true market deal because they're getting more, you know, internet searches and eyeballs on their social media and so on and so forth. Yeah, but that's why I said nepotism is too nefarious a term for it. It's not just sports.

I mean, it's politics. You have a much better leg up if your last name is Kennedy. You know, if you have name recognition. Hey, I don't want to make light of it, but I like fun conversations as well. And I know it's serious. But, you know, I didn't know that Dionne had two toes amputated and that he was on the verge of this because of circulation issues, this foot, potential foot amputation. But I did start thinking this, Joel. And so, and again, I'm not asking this question to make light of Dion, but you were a high-level athlete.

Maybe I'll ask it hypothetically to you. If, Joel, I made a deal that you would end up being one of the. the best quarterbacks of all time, best defensive players of all time, in the Dion analogy, but the price you have to pay is that sometime in your 50s, you're going to lose your foot. Do you make that deal? No. And I don't know if his foot circulation issues are tied to his football career, but I mean. Yeah, I don't think there.

I know that he's had blood clot issues, but I don't want to speculate. I will answer your question quickly. I love playing golf way too much. So I would say no. So if I offered you Peyton Manning, Deion is Peyton Manning. Let's say that. He's the Peyton Manning of defense. Okay.

If I offered you Peyton's career, but I'm going to compromise your golf game in some way. I don't know what I have to take. A hand? I'm going to take a hand. You're not going to do that? I can't do that. I can't do that. I couldn't help but go into that hypothetical.

And it's like I want to play catch with my sons, you know? Like I've got, I've got nine. 11, 9, and 6 right now. Earlier today, we're recording this on Father's Day. I was playing catch with my son outside. Like, that's priceless. Happy Father's Day. I hope Fox appreciates that you came in to promote your podcast on Father's Day.

Hey, I, so let's make a transition. One of the interesting parts to me of your conversation with Dion was you kind of said to him something about, hey, you were, Colorado was one and 11 last year. If you go four or five wins up, that's a victory. and he totally rejected you. Oh, yeah, he didn't want to hear any part of it. Which here's the transition. Hold on, here's the transition I want to make, okay? He's like, I want it all.

I don't know what you're talking about, Joel. I don't want a sip. I want a gulp. I want it all. That mindset, I would suspect, and now I'm guessing, Joel, is a totally different mindset than the guest on your podcast today in Nick Sabin, who you and I've talked about in the past is so process-oriented, So, on the surface, at least, rejecting of goals, instead saying, I'm all about what does practice look like today, not what the payoff for a good practice might end up being, that I wonder those two mindsets do you think they are, by the way, if Dion and Nick were sitting here with me, they would reject my premise and say, we're the same.

But I'm just curious, do you find those mindsets in opposite? There's not one way to win in sports, but I'm just curious. This is a great question. This is a really great question. And I love the comparison. And you know what's fascinating is that as I go around the country and I talk with guys, two of the more similar, this is going to blow people's minds. The two guys who I would say are most similar are Dion and Nick Saven. Yes. And they just communicate it in a different way. Nick is saying the exact same thing. I want it all. And I want it all. And I, I want it right now. The only difference is he's saying it by saying I'm getting there and I'm telling you the road I'm taking to get there by by loving the moment every single day. I love, you know, Tuesday morning coaches meetings at 7.30 and he focuses on the process knowing that the end of that process is having the full cup. Dion also wants the full cup and he also is very, I would say specific about the things that he needs to do in order to get there clean house

think about the every day think about the workout think about the meeting doing everything in the process and why does you want to talk about the process because i want it all i don't want to talk about two wins i want to talk about when we're winning 10 games and and the focus on the end for both of them leads them to their discipline during the mundane and and they just they just said it in a different way. And to be honest, the question to Dion was a bit to try to protect him. Listen, I'm a Colorado alum, right? And this expectation that they're just going to be like gangbusters this first year is somewhat unrealistic.

And the reason is, is because of what I tried to explain to him. A plus three or four in the wind column is a drastic, drastic improvement for any team in the country, much less a team that was one in 11 and lost by an average of, 29 points. Well, they were the worst team by a wide margin. The next closest team was Northwestern, who was also 1 in 11, lost by an average of 14 points. So they doubled up the average margin of loss that Northwestern had. So that being said, if they win three games or four games, people have to understand that is a, not just a drastic, but like a monumental jump forward for a program. And yet, there's this sentiment that they're like going to win the

league or come out and be an eight-win team. From my seat, that's somewhat unrealistic. I was almost trying to offer up that olive branch to him, and he wouldn't have any part of it, because what he wants is a program, and in particular the members of that program, whether it's coaching staff or players. So it's not just pleasure. Everybody, all the members of the program to be pointed at and thinking about the ultimate success and not just these, incremental pieces of success that he might have along the way. Okay, I have two questions, and that's probably a lie, because I will follow curiosity depending upon your answers, when it comes to Nick Saban, but I also want to save some time for the SEC and the Texas Longhorns.

What's left to learn from Nick Saban? You've had, I'm sure, multiple conversations with Nick Saban throughout your career. I've had a couple, and I've listened to so many that, and by the way, I don't say that flippantly. I'm not waving my hand at Nick Sabin. I think I've learned some amazing lessons about sports and life from somebody like Nick Saban. So you have a 30-minute conversation with Nick Saban. What's left to learn? A lot.

A lot. I feel like wisdom is lost on the youthful. And to some degree, and I think that this is a societal problem, that we don't value those who have done it before. And we don't value those that have. had the experiences. Nick is as wise a coach as I've ever been around. And I personally believe, like, as soon as we have the mindset that like, hey, man, like, we've got it.

It's all good is when we lose the perspective of the wisdom that he provides. When I sat down with him, I was, first of all, I was very excited. And one of the things that I wanted to ask him about was, a comment and an answer that he gave me in a previous interview. Because listen, when you sit down with Nick, you only get a certain amount of time. Okay, like, he's, he's busy. You're not just going to sit there and be like, hey, man, ask every question that you want. So before the Texas game last year, you know, I had a certain amount of time with them.

I asked him, why are you still doing this? Maybe to the point, you know, to a certain extent what you're kind of asking me, why do you still love this? Why are you still doing this? And he said to me in the answer, this is back in the fall before they, they beat Texas. He said, well, I guess for me, the chase is better than the capture. And I was like, oh, my gosh, I wrote it down and it was amazing.

I had to move on in that meeting because we had to talk more about the game. But I could have sat there and talked to him about that answer for 45 minutes, right? So part of this podcast, when I went down this spring to talk with him, was going back and revisit that answer. Explain it more to me, the chase and the capture. And within just that small answer, there was infinite wisdom about being where your feet are, being present in the day-to-day, whether you're anything, a father, right? Today is father's day, a husband, a son, a daughter, anything along those lines, a player, a coach, being where your feet are, and chasing something because the chase for him is greater than the capture. The relationships along the way are greater than the capture. There is infinite wisdom in that one answer.

And so that's why I say, like, I still think that every time you get to sit with a guy like that, he's going to give you some sort of nugget or you can go down a tangent in which you're going to learn something really profound. What a great answer. What a great sales pitch for this episode of the Joel Clat Show, Big Noon conversations. And I totally agree. The older I get, you know, I have come to understand the limited value of intelligence. and the unlimited value of wisdom, that those two things are not one and the same. That's a really smart way to put it.

Which is a backhanded compliment, because I just cut down the concept of intelligence, and then you said that was a smart way to put it. I'd rather you say it's a wise way to put that. Hey, so, okay, I'm also going to ask you this question by kind of opining with you for a second. So maybe as in my quest for wisdom, I've come to understand that the purpose of life is not happiness, Joel. Happiness is a completely overrated state of mind. It doesn't mean we shouldn't enjoy happiness

or even seek happiness out, but I think happiness as an end to your road leads you towards this place of hedonism, that you're much better served to live a life of purpose, and in that you'll find contentment and moments of happiness. I'm saying all that in the lead-up to asking you this question. Success, I know, is not one in the same.

same with either contentment or happiness. We can look at a lot of successful people, and we do specifically in sports, and specifically when it comes to head coaches and say, he's one miserable son of a bitch. And we can name names. But I'm curious, and I'm not naming a name here with Nick Sabin, nor am I with Bill Belichick. But from a distance, I do think I have a very honest and fair ability to ask this question. Do you think Nick Saban, if you know Bill Belichick, you can an answer for him as well, but do you think Nick is happy? Is he, you know, from a distance, he's had a ton of success. It's hard to see happiness. He doesn't exude happiness. But again, not that that's the highest idea of ideals. He might exude contentment and purpose. But do you think

he's happy? I don't know. I don't know. And I don't think that. he would tell you he's chasing happiness, you know, to your, to your point. I think purpose is is what drives him more. I think purpose is what he was referring to in terms of the chase and the capture. I think happiness is the capture. I think that all of us in every walk of life, if we put our value in the capture or in some sort of circumstance or outcome or situation, we will ultimately be let down, period. Whether that's a high or a low, like, It will let us down. I think joy is something very different.

And I think joy and contentment are probably related in a certain degree. And I think he finds joy in the purposeful action of the chase. And so I would venture a guess that he would answer this by saying, I find great purpose in my life. And through that purpose, I find great contentment and great joy. Now, part of that is a maniacal drive towards success and championships, right? But I don't know if that's where ultimately he finds his joy or identity. This is a profound question and something that I think that as you get older, you wrestle with

because you realize that the circumstances and situations and more specifically, the outcomes in your life will not fulfill you. And your joy ultimately is only going to be as strong as what it's built on, what your identity is in. I've certainly been thinking a lot about this, you know, as I've entered into my 40s and I have now kids that are about to be teenagers. And I'm thinking about what's the purpose in my life? What's the purpose around my family? And these are things that I think are interesting and quality for all of us to think about and sit in. For me personally will. My relationship with Jesus has been coming to the forefront as I get older. My striving and awe for him has become bigger as I get older. And it's because my joy is

more complete, the more I focus on him. Because the more I focus on him, the less concerned I am about the circumstances and situations and outcomes in my everyday life. And the more that I'm unconcerned with those things, than the better husband, father, brother, and son I can be because of my joy being secured in something other than those outcomes that happen on a day-to-day basis. That's wonderful. I find myself on the same path, Joel, and I'm sure you saw it, the Oklahoma women's softball team.

They basically gave an answer very similar to what you just gave to a question very similar to what I just asked about Nick Saban. And, I mean, I think it was three separate players who gave just wisdom, just spun pure wisdom on this exact topic of joy versus happiness versus accomplishment versus championships versus Jesus it was awesome it was awesome and it gave me i mean it was like wildfire almost every text chain i had man that video was like flying through did you see this did you see this and you know we were all cheering from afar there's no doubt um okay the schedules are out 2024 SEC, you know, I believe we, the Texas Longhorns have left you a spot in the Big 12,

you may soon take, so enjoy. Are we going to find joy or enjoyment? That's an ugly. Joel, those schedules, I mean, they're fun. It's going to be a lot of fun. Every murder is row. Well, listen, Will, I don't mean to pour cold water on Longhorns, because Lord knows, like, I suffered greatly at the hands of the Longhorns.

personally, but I will tell you that, like, you weren't winning anything in the Big 12 either. So this, that's yesterday. I'm talking about tomorrow. I understand, but this notion that Texas is going to all of a sudden roll into the SEC and start winning, it's very similar to the notion that Aggie fans thought that they were going to roll in, like, everything was going to be better. And it's like, no, they were exactly and have been exactly what they were in the Big 12. You and I both know that, right? That's what Texas A&M is just perpetually underachieving. Well, Texas has been perpetually underachieving now for the better part of a decade, decade or more. They should be better this year, but until they actually

prove it, I have gone on strike for the Texas. Like, I get sucked in way too much and quickly will. I'm always like, oh, man, the Texas, they're back. This is going to be it. Until they prove it, I'm just on strike. I'm just not going to do it. I'm sorry, no proof it. Okay, that's fairish. That's fairish. I just feel like it's a full bandwagon to hate Texas bandwagon. I mean, is there any more seats? But I don't hate, but I don't hate. This is part of the problem is that I've been out there being like, no, no, no, this is it.

This is Texas this year. And I just get let down every single year. Okay, here's the deal. The secret to Texas's success, if I can say that, the secret to Texas's success is going to be exactly tied to the conversation that you had with Dionne Sanders. It's going to be two things, mainly, primarily two things. play and quarterback play. And they're recruiting better on the line. I think the line is much improved and will continue to improve, I think, in the coming

years, offensive. I'm unconvinced. Let me put it to you this way. If I was ranking Texas's offensive line in the country five years ago, five years ago, I would rate them somewhere in the 50s or 60s. It was that bad. If I were to rate this year's offensive line, it would be in the top six. no should you be better yes six

oh i think you're even more rosy than i am i think you're even more rosy than i am i think the interior offensive line has some questions the guard play is still is still the tackles i'll give you top ten i'll give you top ten offensive line play around the country is not great so i will tell you like their offensive line i would say is a top ten offensive line in college football now what they do with that remains to be seen i i'm on strike until we see it for real. Okay, then real quickly, and then I'll move on from Texas, much to everybody's relief. But the quarterback play is the more sexy conversation, and there are sexy names at Texas. And I don't know, Joel, I don't know how much you've invested. I don't know

how much you've talked to Sarkesian. And I want to believe in Quinn Ewers. I truly want to believe. And people don't realize that he was a bigger recruit than Archmanning. He was a bigger time recruit than Archmanning. And reports out of Austin are that Malik Murphy is sitting there between the two and looking really good. So the quarterback progression of those three and one of them rising up to be a star is going to dictate what happens with Texas and the SEC. Well, listen, there's no doubt. I don't think Quinn's probably going to be gone after this year, you know, because he can be.

I think, right? Yeah, he can be. The question is, does he play good enough? So then it becomes a question of Malik and Arch. Arch went there to sit a year. Like this notion that he might play this year, I think is unfounded. At least those are the conversations I've had behind the scenes was that part of why he picked Texas is that he didn't have to play right away.

So I think the conversation about his battle and getting on the field is a year away. Yeah, and then it'll be between him and Malik on whether or not they play well in the SEC. Finally this. We'll end here. And this isn't Texas specific. Those schedules for the SEC, and they will be the same. for the Big 12, I mean for the Big 10. They're tough, man.

And I don't know. It's going to, what the question will be, what do we do with nine and three SEC teams in 2025? I think this is a great thought exercise. And I do believe that what's going to end up happening is that in the 12 team playoff, which remember is coming. So when these schedules then are enacted in 24 and in the Big Ten and in the SEC, we're also going to have a 12-team college football playoff. That expansion is going to basically broaden the pool, I believe, for those conferences almost specifically, versus third-place teams

out of the Big 12, or if we have a Pact 10 at that time, or whatever they're calling themselves, or ACC, right? Like, I just, I don't believe that a committee is going to sit there and reward a 10-and-2 team from the Big 12 over a 9 and 3 team from the SEC or the Big 10. To me, you're going to get those six champions, right, six best champions into the playoff, and then the rest of the six spots are going to be almost reserved for the rest of the best of the Big 10 or the SEC, and maybe even more specifically the SEC. So at least that's my hope. We'll see how it all plays out.

I do have some hope that the expansion of the playoff is going to lead to a bit more parity within conferences and within college football, as more teams can define themselves as successful on the top end. Remember, when we were growing up, it was a big deal to get to a New Year's Day bowl game. It was a big deal, right? And it was a big deal even to play for a conference championship or be in the mix there. And so a lot of teams could define themselves as successful in recruiting, a lot of teams. Now, with only a limited number of spaces in the playoff at four, those are the only teams

that can define themselves as successful. So what we've done is we've basically created a separation, which we've seen over the last six or seven years, where only six to eight teams can really recruit at the highest level. As we expand it out, the number of teams in the postseason and expand that definition of successful out, I'm hoping at least that we're going to have more quality teams across the whole sport. I hope you're right. I think you're right. I've heard you talk about that theory. I think if you talked about it with me here on the Will Kane podcast, today was more fun and more profound. maybe than I ever would have expected. What a fun conversation, and it's all off of the launching pad

of the Joel Clatt show, Big Noon Conversations. You can already catch Deion Sanders and Nick Saban. Man, this was fun. Thank you. Yes, I appreciate your time. We're going to have to do it again, maybe towards the regular season or even towards the end of the regular season. Sounds good, man. Take care. There you go. I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Joel Clatt. Again, check out his podcast, Big Noon Conversations, the Joel Clack Show, wherever you get your audio entertainer. I'll see you again next time.

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