Will Cain Country - Emily Compagno & Michael LaRosa: 'The View' & MSNBC Try To Spin Hunter Biden 

Episode Date: December 3, 2024

Story #1: Quick Takes: MSNBC & The View twist themselves into a pretzel of logic trying to justify President Joe Biden's pardon of his son, Hunter. Plus, President-elect Trump jokes about annexing Canada, but what would that look like? And will a now woke Jaguar car brand sell? Story #2: Debating internal Democratic politics with former Press Secretary to First Lady Jill Biden & Former Special Assistant to President Biden, Michael LaRosa. Story #3: Finding Faith in the midst of war: Host of The FOX News True Crime Podcast & Outnumbered co-host Emily Compagno joins to discuss her new book, Under His Wings: How Faith on the Front Lines Has Protected American Troops Tell Will what you thought about this podcast by emailing [e-mail] Subscribe to The Will Cain Show on YouTube here: Watch The Will Cain Show! Follow Will on Twitter: @WillCain Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

One, MSNBC and The View run themselves into a pretzel of logic trying to justify Joe Biden's pardon of Hunter Biden. Plus, Jaguar goes full DEI, pink Jags. Speaking of Jags, Trevor Lawrence suffers a horrible hit at the hands of a Houston Texan. Plus, Trump is going to annex and divide into the 51st, 52nd, 53rd, and 54th state, Canada. Two, a Democratic strategist, a former special assistant to Joe Biden, joins us to debate the internal politics of Democrats. Three, let's predict the college football top 12 playoff ranking plus, the power of prayer and faith in war.

Emily Campano on her new book Under His Wings It is the Will Kane show streaming live at Fox News.com on the Fox News YouTube channel and the Fox News Facebook page always on demand by subscribing on Spotify or on Apple

and of course set a reminder every 12 o'clock Monday through Thursday by subscribing to the Will Kane Show on YouTube, and then you can join us live, as many of you already are, on YouTube or on Facebook. We've got an exciting show for you today. A lot happening, everything from prayer and faith to battling it out with a Democrat.

You don't want to miss one minute of today's Will Kane show, but it also means we got to get right to it because there's a lot of stories to talk about in the news. The way we do that here is we go for a round of quick hits with Don. tinfoil. Let's get to it with story number one. Let's bring in the fellas in New York, the

Wallitia. We got two days, Dan. We got Young Establishment James, and today, making another guest appearance is the Don of Sabato Gigante, Will Cane Show edition. Don tinfoil Pat is going to take us through some quick hits in the news. Take it away, Don. Got to tell you, Will, I'm feeling

pretty good after last night. Vindicated with James Winston's performance and Monday night football. I was right this whole time. Biggest James Winston fan on the planet. Shoving us back into neutral to talk about a player that no one that cares about and everyone has written off. Man who throws as many interceptions he does, touchdowns, the former Florida State Seminole, James Winston, and his number one fanboy tinfoil pat.

But we're not tinfoil pat right now. We are Don tinfoil pat. Yes. Hosting Sabado Gigante Will Kane show style. Quick hits. Five stories take us through the news, Don. Best story of the day, Will. And that is President Trump.

making a joke at Marlago to Justin Trudeau, Prime Minister of Canada, will America annex Canada and make it become the 51st state? I believe we have a clip of that, Dan. And tonight we're getting some new details about that Trump Trudeau dinner from two people who were at the table. We are told that when Trudeau told President-elect Trump

that new tariffs would kill the Canadian economy, Trump joked to him that if Canada can't survive without ripping off the U.S. to the tune of $100 billion a year, then maybe Canada should become the 51st state, and Trudeau could become its governor. It's exciting. We miss Brett's reaction. Justin Trudeau.

Yeah, but it was understated, as it always is, with Brett Bayer. So Justin Trudeau makes his way to Marlago. He has a meeting, apparently that lasted over 90 minutes with Donald Trump and many members of the Trump. cabinet. And it's discussed in there both border insecurity through the Mexican border, but also through the Canadian border and the influx of not just illegal immigrants, but fentanyl. And the trade deficit to the tune of $100 billion is also discussed. Donald Trump says, when Trudeau responds, well, that would crush Canada. Maybe you should just be the 51st state then if you can't survive

without the U.S. and you could be governor. Apparently during the meeting it was brought up, but, sir, Canada would undoubtedly be a very liberal state. So Trump responds, maybe we carve it up then, and you can be governor of one of the states, prime minister. And some have pointed out, how would that even look? I think we have an image of how that might look. This, I think, are the Canadian provinces. You can see them above the northern border of the United States

if you're watching on YouTube or Facebook. If you are listening on Spotify or Apple or on radio, or one, two, three, four, five, six Canadian, seven Canadian provinces. The question is how many of those provinces would lean to the right, how many of those provinces would lean to the left? Anywhere there's an urban senator in Canada, Vancouver, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, you're going to have a far-left politics. And I would be very pessimistic about anything here striking a balance.

You know, like, could we actually strike a balance? because that's been the issue like add Puerto Rico, divide California. The whole issue has been the United States Senate. Like the Republicans don't want to let in a state that's going to be a reliably Democrat Senate contribution to the United States Senate. And the vice versa is true. I mean, Democrats don't want to allow in some highly conservative state. That's why they're always fighting for Washington, D.C. and Puerto Rico because

they think they're going to get two more Democratic senators from both. I don't know. Could you carve out and make it even enough rural provinces in Canada that you could balance this out and make it, you know, a 50-50 split between Republican and Democrat? We could gerrymander it. Someone pointing out, I don't know. M. Kitchen in the chat said, you can add one maple leaf to the flag for them. Add one maple leaf.

No, we're not adding anything to the American flag. But you're talking about like 50 stars and one of those little stars being a maple leaf in the American flag. That's very good. Could be a colony. This is not a compromise. This is not a negotiation. This is a surrender.

And this is honestly what I like about this. I'll leave it here. I like this during the first presidency of Donald Trump. I like an expansive vision of America. I like ambition. I like talking about bringing in Greenland. I want to take over Antarctica and all its potential minerals. I think this is how America should view the world.

Like, hey, we offer you a better life. Do you just want to become one of our 50 states? And I think that Trump is funny. I think he's one hell of a negotiator. I think it's a hell of a negotiation and comedic line right there to the face of the Prime Minister of Canada. But I also just like the spirit of, hey, we're America. You know what I mean?

Like, we don't have to feign equality. We don't have to feign that we're on the same level as you. You're not on our level. No offense, Canadians. You're not on our level. We don't have to be, you know, the Alabama Crimson Tide, pretending like McNickle State is of the, same level. We are Alabama. You're Mick Nichols, Canada. You can keep grinding it away in

Division 2, 1A, whatever you are, or you can come under our wing. I like, I like this ambition of Donald Trump. Take it away, Don. That's right. And so a story that hardly anyone's talking about, especially not on Fox News, the punter Biden pardon will. The media is having a hard time trying to come to grips with this, and they're trying to spin it in the Democrats' favor. Dan, we have two clips. Play clip one, please. Yeah, this would be Whoopi Goldberg. There we go.

I think what is hurtful is denying that if it's good for the goose, it's good for the gander. Yeah. He is the president in the United States, and it is his right. And he doesn't have to explain to anybody. This is his right as president. He can pardon it. If he wants to pardon, bozo to clown, he can pardon, Beauzo the clown. Yeah.

So I'm not sure why, again, why people are clutching their pros while the left is clutching their pros. Because did you all forget all the stuff that we said was going on? So this is crazy, man. It's just so crazy and its lack of self-awareness and hypocrisy that you have to think that there is some self-awareness to the hypocrisy. And it just makes Whoopi and everyone else who sounds like Whoopi today a political actor, you know, Honestly, putting out some very shallow but probably effective spin to a sympathetic audience. You heard the monkeys clapping in the audience there. You know, this is the issue.

Everybody's saying, well, Trump pardoned Jared Kushner's father, you know, and now has appointed him ambassador to France. The issue is not whether or not you issue a pardon. Every president has issued pardons. And people have issued pardons to people related to them, including Bill Clinton. That's not the issue. The issue is that Democrats have pretended forever, quite honestly, but particularly in the past five years, that they stand on the mountain of moral authority

and what distinguishes them from Republicans is their deference to the rule of law. That's what they pretended. The issue is that you are maybe making a effective piece of spin for the sympathetic ears that clap in the audience of the view, but nakedly shallow and obvious to anyone else. Dave Portnoye, El Presidente of Barstool Sports put it out. He's like, you're just liars.

and you're just repetitive liars. You went on for months about how Joe Biden is the next George Washington who stands on principle. And he repeatedly lied that he wouldn't pardon Hunter Biden. And now his minions are out there going, well, but Trump did. That's not the issue. The issue is you are not who you pretend to be. We have one more clip. Simone Sanders from MSNBC.

Joe Biden is leaving the stage. He's leaving the stage. He's not, this is not a Donald Trump situation. where he could potentially come back and run for president. He has done everything. Joe Biden has played by all the rules. The people told him we had to play by, right? He's done it all.

So good for Joe Biden and good for Hunter, I say. Sorry to the comm shop this week. This is very unfortunate to the people in the comp shop. Okay, I know how it is to be a spoke, but like, oh, well, the Democrats need to just really, the House is literally on fire, and y'all still looking for the keys. If Donald Trump is about to,

I'm going to hold America's hammer. I say this, maybe Donald Trump is about to be president. Donald Trump is about to be president. And the Supreme Court has said he can, he's basically a king with an asterisk. So please. Immunity. What is happening here? All right.

So actually, I like this clip even better because while Wolfie's doing the top line talking point, this actually alludes to something deeper. I said really the issue is that your pretense of moral authority. But there's actually a deeper issue as well. and Simone Sanders is cheering it on. She's not simply equivocating to Donald Trump. She's cheering it on. And that's the nature of this pardon.

She's going good for Joe Biden. Good for him that he issued a blanket, 11-year pardon of his son that covers all manner of sin. While all of us might sit here be able to say, I would protect my son and I would pardon my son, while some of us might be able to say I'd issue a pardon for the charges that you're facing,

which is a gun charge, which I'll admit to you, I don't like the gun charges against Hunter Biden. think it's overcharging on on um laws that that shouldn't honestly be something we're cracking down on so heavily in the united states of america a right that's protected by the second amendment or the tax evasion charges i think what's egregious here that she's cheering on is he got a blanket 11 year pardon dating back to 2014 covering a time period that begins with hunter biden's service to the corrupt ukrainian business company berizma and of course more than allegations but actually

some evidence. No matter how many times they say there is no evidence, evidence that it connects to Joe Biden, that he is corrupt, that Hunter Biden was the conduit for the corruption. And if you think that I'm wrong, if you want to ignore that, hang in there. We got another month to go. Watch and see if there won't be pardons for Jim Biden, who's facing no current charges for guns or tax evasion. What would he be pardoned for? Well, corruption, the exact thing that we're talking about here, that this is really about with Hunter Biden, an 11-year blanket, pardon, that actually is a C-Y-A for Joe Biden. All right, Patrick.

All right, here we go. So we have a first of two Jaguar stories. Dan, if you will. So Jaguar has released a new car called the Type Double Zero, which someone made a joke. That's the amount they will sell. It looks something like this. If you guys could see on your screen, it's pink.

It's very pink, very different. If you're watching on YouTube or Facebook, you can see the pink Jaguar. If you're listening on Spotify, Apple, or on radio, you're looking at, what does this look like? Body shape-wise? What does that look like? It looks like the Rolls Royces, like those phantoms. It has that same body style, if you look that up. Well, everything's starting to get the same body style.

Like the crossover SUVs all look the same. Is this a sports car? It's two-door. So I guess it's a sports car. Yeah. It's more, it's almost a concept. It's got like a coop. Yeah, it's a coupe concept car.

Very pink, very matte. Matt paint. That's the, is it matte? Oh, it doesn't shine. It's matte. Yeah. And that's the big takeaway. It's hot pink.

It's hot pink. Yeah. Jaguar, of course, under fire for all of this stuff they're doing. They've really leaned into DEI woke, that ad they put out. In fact, Dan, don't you have something from the guy at Jaguar or the ad agency that created this ad, talking about for Jaguar? I do. Director of Marketing Santino Pietrasanti was at an award ceremony and said this. And at Jaguar, we're passionate about our people and we're committed to fostering a diverse, inclusive, and unified culture that is representative not only of the people who use

our products, but in a society in which we all live, a culture where our employees can bring their authentic selves to work. And we're on a transforming. journey of our own, driven by a belief in diversity, inclusion, creativity, policy, and most importantly, action. We've established over 15 DEI groups such as Pride who are here tonight in the back. Thank you guys for coming. Women in engineering and neurodiversity matters. Okay. Dude is wearing a sequin dinner. jacket and a mesh shirt underneath it where you can see everything.

It's a lot. So, I mean, what? New Bud Light? It's comedy. It's like, it's literally comedy. This is South Park. Remember South Park did that episode?

Make it pink and turn it to S? You know? Like, who, can you sell, like, let's say, let's say you totally lean in to deep, so they,

so they've jettisoned what Jaguar was, which was an elite, brand aspirate so awesome was it yes it's like james bond are you kidding me jaguars are amazing i used to love them i don't know but they were always known as crappy cars was the problem like i i was always understanding if you bought a jaguar you're a dope not it's dope you're a dope because you're buying status on a car that actually is not a very good car and it's going to be in the shop so you're ignoring that it's actually a bad car at a high price just for the name jack Which, by the way, if I, that dude was American.

He had an American accent. If I ever moved to England and start saying things like Jaguar, I want you guys to all kick me in the crotch. If I moved to Mexico and I start saying Guadalupe Street instead of Guadalupe, I want you to kick me in the crotch. I cannot stand. I can't, it's a pretension. I like you when, uh, when Trump would say, Trend de Aragua. I wouldn't say Guadalupe. There's a street in Austin, and they pronounce it Guadalupe.

But I think that in other applications, Guadalupe would be okay. How do you just ruin a brand like Jaguar? I mean, it's tough. This is really, really hard. So that's what I was getting at. If you'd lean into this, are there enough, like, LGBTQ people who not only are LGBTQ, whatever, but like that's their thing. Like, this is who I am.

this is my entire personality you know what I mean it's not that I am this person at this job and I like these things and oh I also happen to be gay but this is 100% my entire personality are there enough of them to buy that car like let's just say jaguar was a it's going to say we're going to go all in on this niche this niche here because I get niche marketing I get that right um you're going to go all in on this niche and we're going to sell the hell out of these hot pink jacks how many of those could there be? How many? Zero. Like, I don't...

Right. Like, somewhere there's got to be an accountant doing what I'm talking about in the back at rooms at Jaguar going... Guys! Don't do it! Guys! How do you be doing some numbers? Somebody's got to be going, this could probably sell us about 75 cars, guys.

You know, like, how many cars actually leaning into this could they sell? Yeah. I don't know. All right, what do you got, Don? Speaking of bad sales, Will, we have another Jaguar story, and that is Trevor Lawrence, quarterback of the Jaguars, was hit while he was sliding by a Texan's linebacker, and I believe we might have a clip of that.

Boom! And it was pretty egregious. Yikes. It was. What's his name, Aziz, the Houston Texans linebacker? Al-Ziz. Aziz. Al-Sho-Site.

Yeah. Yes. look people are putting out videos of other dirty hits that he's made in the past so i don't really know his history i'm not familiar with him or his history um and so he got a three game suspension it's an ugly hit it Trevor Lawrence went into the what do they call that when you get a immediate concussion they call it fencing yes uh we where your legs and hands start quivering and seize up. Yeah, you've seen a Tua do it quite a bit.

Trevor Lawrence went into that, which is, I mean, it's scary. But I'm going to be a little bit contrarian on this. So, I mean, like, everybody is crushing this guy. And I do think he deserves to be penalized and in trouble to some degree. I think defenders, I just generally think defenders are put in a real bad position. I really do. I think that you are asking defenders to make split-second decisions when quarterbacks are looking like they're running out of bounds.

And I don't know what percentage of quarterbacks do this. Certainly Patrick Mahomes does it. Makes it look like he's running out of bounds. And then he scampers for another three or four yards. But if you shove him out aggressively, then you're penalized. And this is a slide. This is different. Those slides are pretty hard to time.

I mean, you've got to say, you've got to be able to see that he's sliding, obviously, and no, he's down because you don't have to touch a quarterback, who slides, he's just down, if he gives himself up. But if you've already committed to the hit. But the arm. I don't know. I just think it asks a lot of tiny. You can play that in fast-mo.

I'm not saying this. I agree with you. Can you play it in fast-mode, Dan? It's so quick. I don't have it. I only have it in... Yeah, but like, look at... Slow-mo.

Look at where he is. I mean, he puts his arm out direct. He knows he's going directly into his face right there. Okay, even play that in slow-mo. He begins, the linebacker begins, launching himself before, I mean, maybe a split second after Lawrence starts the slide. Like, if you're that low already, why are you going after, why are you going after him?

You're going for his legs? He's down. Ah. I just think this doesn't show, I disagree. It's a, it's a penalized, maybe even on a little dirty, but I don't think it's as ugly as everybody else is saying it is. I mean, meaning I don't project onto him. And by the way, he gave a really good apology since then.

I don't project onto him these horrible intentions in his head. I really don't. I don't think he was out there to permanently injure Trevor Lawrence. I just, in this day and age of the NFL, I think you're projecting a lot of 2020 hindsight vision on these guys that they're playing by instinct in the moment. Go ahead, Dan, Don. That is all we got today. Well, we're up against that. That's it for quick hits.

Yes, sir. Okay, I'm up against it because we have, coming up, partner at Ballard Partners, he's a former special assistant to President Biden and a press secretary to the first lady. Michael Lerosa is going to join us, and we're going to do a little deep dive into where Democrats are and how they ended up here next on the Will Cain Show. Hey, I'm Trey Gowdy host of the Tregaddy podcast. I hope you will join me every Tuesday and Thursday as we navigate. life together and hopefully find ourselves a little bit better on the other side.

Listen and follow now at Fox Newspodcast.com. What happened between Joe Biden and Kamala Harris? What happened with Nancy Pelosi? Will we have someone actually defend the pardoning of Hunter Biden? It's the Will Kane show streaming live at Fox News.com on the Fox News YouTube channel. the Fox News Facebook page on Terrestrial Radio, Market to Market, and always available on demand, Spotify, or Apple. Joining us now, Michael LaRosa, he's a partner at Ballard Partners.

He's a former special assistant to President Biden and the press secretary to the First Lady, and he joins us. Now, what's up, Michael? Hey, how are you? Thank you for having me. Glad to have you on the show. So before we move forward, you were a collegiate swimmer. You swam in the Big East?

I did. I swam for Seton Hall University. Yeah, for four years and went there. Oh, what did you swim? I was a sprinter. So I swam 100, 100 butterfly, 50 freestyle, and 100 freestyle. My seat and hall record was in the 100 freestyle. All my events. All my events. Okay. Yeah, we're going to do this real quick. What was your 100 fly yards time? So this is dating, dating me back because it's not as considered fast, not as fast now. But I think when I, you know, it was 50.6 in 100 yards. Fast. Fast. What years were you at Seton Hall? Oh, 2 to 06. And yeah, 02 to 06. I did about, I made two U.S. opens, but I didn't, you know, I final. I didn't go much beyond that.

You were faster than me. I quit after high school, though. I've had a 54, 54 in the 100 fly. And then I'm sure you were way faster me in the 150 free. Well, I'm going to guess, you like a 48 and 100 free? 48, 47 in the 100 free? My record at Seton Hall was 468. Nice.

He's fast. He's fast. Got me in swimming, but I doubt you're going to have me on substance today here, Michael. Michael O'Rosa was a press secretary to First Lady, Jill Biden, and a special assistant to President Biden. So we began today talking a little bit about this pardon of Hunter Biden. And the real fascinating thing is to watch the apologetics from so many on the left, especially in the media, and even Democratic congressmen, when it comes to this pardon. I'm curious. Do you see any defense for Joe Biden's pardon of Hunter Biden?

Unfortunately, I see it in two different ways. I see the politics and I see the legal aspect to it. And I'm not a lawyer, but pardon, let's start with the legal. The pardon power is used to correct injustices most of the time. And in that sense, he is using it in the the correct way. And as you said, you know, you wouldn't advocate for the prosecution of these minor first time offenses. And no DOJ in history has. This was the first one to do that. And, you know, as a Democrat, I strongly feel that it was President Trump, you know, saw his greatest threat, saw a vote rich, or a target rich environment in a troubled son of a former vice president and said, hey, get on this. And they did. And kept him on for, whoa, whoa. But, but, But real quick, Joe Biden was president when this happened. It was his Department of Justice.

Merrick Garland was attorney-in-man. But they were appointed. The prosecutors and the investigators were appointed by the previous administration. And we just didn't. But they still answer, they still answer to Joe Biden. They still answer to Merrick Garland. They are still, that is still their boss. So the claim, that's the way it should be.

The claim, it is the way. Well, you're, okay, fine. It is the way it should be. Correct. The claim that Joe Biden and Hunter Biden are the, the claim that they are the victims of a two-tier justice system or some type of weaponization of the DOJ is so rich with irony is beyond belief. I agree there could have been external pressures to overcorrect. So Donald Trump and Republicans are like, you know, I definitely believe the DOJ has been weaponized. I definitely believe it's been politicized.

I believe Merrick Garland is one of the worst attorney generals in the history of the United States. Do I think there could have been a prosecutor out there who disagrees with Merrick Garland who wants to balance out the justice system and go after Hunter Biden, who as you just mentioned, is a target-rich person to go after? Yeah, I do. Unfortunately, it wasn't for the things that they really should have gone after Hunter Biden for, which is influence peddling and potential corruption, all of which was covered in this pardon. So it wasn't as though they just pardoned him for the gun charge and tax evasion. This was an 11-year blanket, pardon. So we have a lot to dive into. If you'll, you know, let's see, where should we begin?

So the 11, should we start with the 11, 11 years is that that's the most concerning to you, right? That's what you said, I think. Yeah. Yeah. It's the most concerning aspect, more so than even the hypocrisy. Look, and okay, maybe we'll come back to that because one of the things that I've been outspoken about, I was outspoken about yesterday, was that this is just the second reversal that the president has made in six months that has had severe political consequences to his party. And it is going to

leave a stain on his legacy because he was so emphatic that he wasn't going to pardon his son. And, you know, I'm a very, one of the things I think President Trump has done for political communication is that he's made it very rewarding to be yourself in politics. The old rules have been thrown out in terms of, look, voters just crave authenticity. They're willing to forgive you for mistakes, for your imperfections, for family members. I mean, the voters never punished the Bidens for Hunter Biden. Not one bit. And we knew we were going to win the election September 30th, the way he went after. Hunter in a debate. I mean, it's just the issues that Hunter faced that the president kept bringing up were just so not germane to the election. And so many families face the troubles that Hunter faced. So we knew we were going to win because they went after family. And it's just not a good look. And so I think the politics here is really bad for the Democrats. And I think it's the second time he's really dinged his legacy. And I don't believe.

What's the first, by the way? You said that twice. The second time, what's the first he's dinged his legacy? Well, look, the original sin of the of 2024 was, you know, the president's decision to get out at such a late time. Look, I don't think that would have changed the result of the election. But putting the party in that position, the party's never been, I don't think either party has ever been placed in that position before. people were advocating for him not to to run again and to, you know, pass the torch in the fourth quarter with 107 days to go. That's not an excuse for losing. But that is unprecedented, and it was a very bad situation to put our party in. And he's the leader of the party. And this...

Well, hold on real quick. I want to go into that for a minute with you. So that doesn't ring true to me, unless you have information you want to share with us behind the scenes. it doesn't ring true to me that Joe Biden was under pressure to drop out before his poor debate performance against Donald Trump. It was rather, at least in the media front, and by the way, also among politicians, at least front facing, oh, no, Joe Biden's in great shape. No, he's fine. He's sharp as attack. You know, that was the line. That was what everybody said. Now, you can tell me, because you were in the building,

if there was pressures on him behind the scenes in February, March, April, May to get him out of the race. And he held on until June in that first debate. I don't know if there were pressures from Nancy Pelosi, but I know that after the debate, Nancy Pelosi, perhaps the Obama's, everyone within the Democratic Party, then made up their mind, Chuck Schumer, then made up their mind and exerted all political pressure on Joe to drop out. Are you telling me that he should have dropped out way before and everybody made that known to Joe Biden? So what I'm telling you is that

when you're on the other side, when you're, if you are the Bidens for the first two years of the White House, especially in, I would say, 2022, 2022, 23, you hear the media, you're hearing, you're watching, reading op-eds,

you're watching TV, you're listening to donors, and people are telling you that he shouldn't be running again. And there were voices subtly, very softly in public saying not to. And every time that happened, the Biden's doubled down. And in 2022, and I blame this on the Republicans, you know, had you guys actually done what parties do in midterm elections, had they had they performed to expectations? I mean, it was a record 40-year high inflation. There's no excuse for why the Republicans didn't take back the Senate and didn't have a huge

majority. But that overperformance by Democrats really was the single most contributing factor to his decision to run again. Because at that point, there was going to be no Democrat sophisticated enough to challenge the party. And everybody kind of went, okay, fine, because they took it as validation. They took it as bragging rights. And that was really the final. Like, I think you would have run anyway. But I think you would, I'm confident you would have seen. a robust primary challenger had we got our if you done better in the midterms if republics had done better in the midterms 2020 yeah I mean the outside groups were preparing for for all kinds of aggressive oversight and there was some but uh you know the groups were really you know

hammering donors we got to get ready this can't be like 94 95 again you know we have to be ready for them and it just didn't materialize the way democrats expected okay so if i'm i'm listening to what you're saying so the red wave doesn't happen in 2022 so democrats well well republicans did win it didn't win by the margins everybody thought was going to happen so so democrats walk away from that going hey it's not so bad not so bad jo's joe's doing all right joe feels emboldened joe now feels like he maybe he feels even more so maybe he feels like impenetrable or something he feels like a victor um yeah yeah well he's like i'm going to run again yeah if if you think about it from their perspective put your put yourself in the mind of the biden mindset nobody thought he could he could win

that nomination they thought the media was against us they thought uh the democrats were against us uh he makes a comeback he comes back again uh nobody thought he could be an incumbent president you know it hasn't happened in in in 30 years he did it Nobody thought he could bring bipartisanship back and he managed, you know, you're going to disagree with everything he's done. But the volume to which he was able to get things done with the partner like Nancy Pelosi was phenomenal for a first term president. And nobody thought, you know, we were going to, everybody thought we were going to get dominated in the midterms. And so to them, it is the sort of second guessing and the underestimating with Joe Biden that really forces them to do. again. So yeah, they, they were very confident that he could pull this off again. That's how they think. Who's they? I'm sorry. The Biden orbit, the Biden apparatus, the Biden family. You know, this is a guy who's come back from tragedy and almost death and things like that. So that's part of the Biden's story. So they, they were confident. They were going to show everybody up

again. Okay. So he comes out of the midterms feeling emboldened. He feels like he's always been counted. He feels like he's always been disrespected. And now he's feeling like, look at me. I won in 2020 when nobody thought I would. Look at me. I've got all this legislation passed and nobody thought I would. Look at me. Nobody thought I'd perform in the midterms. And I did is what he's saying. But we arrive at the point at which a primary process could have taken place or even after that into the spring. Are you telling me, with all that having happened, there are still voices saying, Joe, you should step aside. I'm not talking about June.

I'm talking about before that. With all that, you just laid out for us. There's still Democrats going, hey, Joe, you should step aside? No, no, no. I'm talking about before the measure. Okay. Because I do want to, because you did, this isn't debate. I'm not debating you on this part.

I'm just trying to really suss out because you said there's the second time he stained his legacy. The first was holding on too long. But to be clear, while he did hold on too long, nobody was shoving him out nobody was defying biden until the debate performance so the timing of his stepping down is really just about what happened to joe i mean it's also his mental capacity but it's there was no outside pressure he performs poorly on the debate stage now there's a ton of outside pressure forcing his hand it's fair it's very fair that's fair okay and then do you think

And I've had a Democratic bundler fundraiser here on the show. She's been saying a lot of stuff. But Lindy Lee, and she has said that she thinks Joe Biden immediately endorsing Kamala Harris was a big FU to Democrats, that there would be no short open primary or no open debate or whatever. He was like, well, if you don't want me, this is who you get. Do you share that analysis of how so quickly moved to Kamala Harris? I don't think it's that simple. And no.

I mean, in one respect, look, the president he worked for went out of his way to endorse other people and actually tried to get him out from running in 2016. And he probably, it might have been sort of a, I'm going to be loyal. I'm going to show you what loyalty is Barack Obama kind of thing. I think that's a little bit, you know, it's a little. bit too cynical, a little too conspiratorial. I think there was going to be no way at that stage in the campaign that he couldn't, that he could not, he could not endorse her. And at that point, but yeah, did others want somebody else? Did others? Did Pelosi? Did all the other Democratic power players agree and say it's obviously got to be Kamala? Or were they hoping for some other

options at that moment in time? They were probably hoping for other options. The problem is, and I think this didn't get enough attention at the time is that really it's the delegates who have all the power right and there's there's thousands of them and they're elected at the local level and so they have all the power um they are pretty loyal to the biden harris ticket going into the convention that probably wasn't going to change much and when the top of the ticket says i'm passing the torch on to the bottom part there was there was never going to be a robust primary because of how late in the game it was but to her credit, she worked very fast to lock up the delegates that Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, as soon as he got out. So she worked for it.

Everybody else was open to try to persuade them, but nobody did. All right, by the way, I'm keeping track of our conversation. We'll work our way back around to Hunter Biden in a minute, but this isn't a diversion. This is actually part of what I wanted to talk about today as well, and I think it's just fit into the flow of our conversation. Yeah. So you suggest he stained his legacy twice. What I'm hearing from you now is that he should have had enough self-awareness

about his own declining mental capacity to step aside earlier in the game so you don't end up in this position. All right, can I clarify that? Not that he defied voices. Yeah, correct. We've clarified together. He wasn't defying voices saying, Joe, get out.

But if he stained his legacy, like you explained to me, the only way that's a stain on his legacy is that he should have had some humility or self-awareness about his declining mental capabilities to say, I don't know, in January or February, hey, I don't know if I'm up for another four years, and now I need to step out. So in politics, like you hire staff and you hire advisors and you hire people that are loyal

to you to break down the reality and not just, there's plenty of people who will tell you what you want to hear. They're great to have. Keep them, whatever. But there are people around you who should be giving you the political reality. And the political reality of it was that in not one, but every poll, every poll leading up to, let's see, as early as 2022, right after the midterms and definitely through the spring of 2023, all the polls were saying the same thing that majority of voters, majority of Democrats thought he was too old. and thought he should be passing the torch. I'm a believer that just like I was talking about earlier,

how we misread our mandates with the nomination and our election. We really, I think, I think they misread the election outcomes several times in several ways. And the polls were everybody speaking to them. And that data should have been shared, and they should have known the hurdle that they had they were facing um i think my my belief is that democrats and the american people made a deal with joe biden in 2020 they they uh wanted him to do two things and he didn't do them um get rid of get rid of donald trump and um pass the torch and uh he was unable to do either yet we beat him um but he didn't go away and he didn't pass the tour and Biden didn't

passed the torch. And people were pretty angry about that. Democrats were angry about that. Do you think, Michael, that Joe Biden, in retrospect, had he not bowed out, would have performed better than Kamala Harris against Donald Trump? No. No. Okay. And that's based upon all the polling leading up to it, that horde debate performance and so forth. Yeah, that's based on part what I just said. there was resentment that he was running in the first place. The cake was baked about his age, and they weren't doing anything to help themselves. You know, you can't skip a 10-minute Super Bowl interview and confirm the worst suspicions people have about you. You can't avoid the media.

You can't have script questions. You can't choreograph these phony, sort of inauthent, inauthentic moments, and he wasn't running as a candidate. And I was very critical of how they hid him. And it really bothered me. Because like I was saying before, people knew how old he was. You know, you don't need to hide it. You need to kind of embrace it and just acknowledge it. But that doesn't mean hide from the press or the media.

In a modern media age, you just can't do that. It's just not sustainable. Well, and that's what's. So here's what I'm curious on. I'm curious about your self-reflection as a party after, I mean, in a way, we could call it two losses, right? Like the loss of Joe Biden and the loss of Kamala Harris, because I don't want to let you describe this. I just want to skip this part of the conversation as a personal indictment of either one of them, although I think part of that is true.

The fact that both had problems suggest there's problems deeper than them as individuals, right? And some of it's about Donald Trump too. Like he's just who he is at this moment in time and the unique character that is Donald Trump. But as a party, you talking about misreading your mandate. How about this? If you had a do-over and you were the kingmaker behind, either one, Harris or Biden, what issue would you redo? Like when you, like, okay, we've leaned too far into identity politics and we shouldn't. It turns off a great percentage of the electorate. Or we completely ignored the border crisis and tried to spend it and we had to pay the price for that. Like, what is the self-reflection going forward? Well, what is the self-reflection

looking backwards that you can apply going forward. You can't apply Kamala Harris and Joe Biden going forward unless Kamala runs again and she may, but I don't think she's going to win your party's primary process. I think that's all fair. What's not, it's Josh Shapiro or Gavin Newsom or whoever it may be for you going forward, they're going to have to do what I'm asking you to do right now.

Like, whoa, we're way out of touch on some of this stuff. What is that stuff, Michael? Yeah, and there's tactical reasons that contribute. it to, you know, a one-point loss. And those can be debated in good faith. And then there are underlying, like the electricity and plumbing of the party where there are problems. But I don't know, Will, if there's, if there needs to be a, we can't overreact to this either. It's, it's really important. When you, when you look at the state of Arizona, they elected Donald Trump, a Democratic Senator, a Democratic Secretary of State, I'm sorry, North Carolina, a Democratic

governor, a Democratic Secretary of State, a Democratic superintendent of schools. Some of that's really unique to the situation in North Carolina with Mark Robinson. Let's look at the three women Democrats in Nevada, Wisconsin, and Michigan, who won. And voters at the top of the ticket decided they didn't like Kamah Harris. They wanted Donald Trump. Same thing in Arizona. They skipped past her, but supported the Democrats. I mean, that tells me two major things that should tell me in both parties, actually,

is that they don't have a mandate either, and they shouldn't misread the way we did. But candidate quality is something that can't be taught. It can't be trained. There are candidates who, I love this, I can't take credit for it, but there are candidates who run into the fire and not away from it. Donald Trump runs into the fire. Bill Clinton ran into the fire. When he was at the worst part of his campaign,

the Jennifer Flower stuff, what did he do? He went on the highest rated show with his wife to address something that no candidate has ever addressed before their marriage. It was completely unique at the time. What did we do? Well, Biden ran away from CBS 60 Minutes during one of the more easily predictable shows every year, the Super Bowl, Harris, you know, it took the media again to kind of force her hand, the press and the pundits and Democrats to kind of say, where are you? Why aren't

you doing more to finally they threw spaghetti up against the wall to see what stuck? And I said this to your colleague, Jesse Waters, one night. Yes, I said the worst thing she can do is try to run out the clock on the Biden strategy of trying to run out the clock without talking. Okay, hold on real quick. So I'm going to use a sports analogy. And you used like a housing analogy, but I'm going to translate it into sports because that's how my brain makes sense. You're talking about tactics.

Like you're talking about lessons in tactics. And you're also talking about personnel, like quality of candidate. And there's obviously legitimacy to all of those things, right? The quality of the quarterback on the field dictates the outcome of the game. But I think, and of course I'm going to think because I agree and, it's some confirmation bias for me. But I think you have a game plan problem. I really do.

I end up trying to be objective, not just confirmation bias. I think you have a game plan. Real quick. So you, you know, you swap out the player. And I think Josh Shapiro is an incredibly talented politician, like really good. When he's on the stage, that is a man who has full command of what he's talking about. And he has a presence. Yeah.

But you just swap out Kamala Harris or Joe Biden for Josh Shapiro. you still have a game plan problem. And if you're going to run out, the game plan being, we're going to lean into trans issues or all identity politics issues, and we're going to continue with our sort of illegal immigration embrace, at least ignoring it, all of that stuff. You know, I think I really do think this. I'm not just hope casting, wish casting here.

I think you're going to have a big problem. I think you have to revisit your game plan on some core tenets of Democrats that have made you elitist, condescending, dismissive of people that don't disagree with you, and wrong on some really big issues. I don't disagree with you on any of those. I feel, you know, I took some meet a couple weeks ago for defending your colleague, Pete, because somebody on a left-wing network called him a white supremacist just because of his position on a military policy.

um that's wrong that's wrong and uh i you know i used to work there i called it out and i just said you don't we don't this is exactly the reason why we got our butts kicked and i and i was kind of using hyperbole but like these are the kind of people that are killing the party uh when you you know i said before the election when morning shows are talking about hitler are leading between six a m and seven a m just talked about hitler you know we are losing you know we are losing Right. Or you know it's the silly season of politics. I said something that and I got like a text from somebody saying a Democrat saying, you know, I think the six million Jews wouldn't find it to be silly season? And I said, well, wouldn't they be more offended that you're trying to compare someone you just don't like who you disagree with to somebody who exterminated six million people? I mean, isn't that taking the word a little too casually kind of lowering the standard of what actually being, you know, and like that that's sort of my problem. As. look i don't have kids i don't wish for any but if i if i had kids and um they were you know straight white males i'd be concerned for them i mean they wouldn't have a place

in the democratic party they wouldn't have a place uh in democratic government i mean i saw how bad it was i know i know uh the unfairness i've seen it i've seen it at play it's it's out of control. I'm for merit, merit based on everything. I don't disagree with you on that on a lot of these things. And look, the border, I spent time on C-SPAN this weekend taking callers. We are operating under a law made by Ronald Reagan and the Republican Senate in 1986. This has been a problem for every president that Donald Trump could get it done. Biden couldn't get it done. You're Right. Well. And I wish, I wish we would have, I remember standing in the East Wayne watching the TVs. This is in the first month. Watching Fox actually, but watching, you know, how fast people were coming over and the problem, the imagery actually of how bad it looked. And I couldn't believe we weren't doing much. We weren't going to address that. Also the numbers, by the way. You saying that you're operating under Ronald Reagan law isn't completely. um i think fair and accurate in that it's like saying hey man i may be 400 pounds overweight but

you're also about 10 pounds underway overweight so my own my only point i mean donald trump didn't solve it in terms of reducing it to net zero but the number the the illegal immigrant crossings for the four years under don't trump as compared to what we've lived through of the last four years is the slightly overweight five pounds need to be lost guy compared to the obese guy who needs to lose 400. Yeah, but when you go back and, you know, look at the press releases from his own custom. And by the way, executive orders. Real quick on the Ronald Reagan thing, you guys used executive orders and loosened that border up ASAP when you took office. Well, we overturned his, which he overturned Obama's. That's my point. You can't solve the border problem

through executive actions. There's no executive solution to the border. It has to be a congressional, it has to be a law if you want to fix the border. And the last person to actually do that was Reagan and a Republican Senate at the time, but they believed in, you know, Ronald Reagan left office by embracing immigration

and encouraging it. So it was a different time. Well, I don't disagree with you. I think that it's going to hurt the party not to be. I won't clip you on this. I won't clip you on this, but I suspect that the next. next four years will show you can go a long way towards solving the illegal immigration crisis

through executive action. I bet it could start as early as January, February. You're going to see some changes. And that is my point about misreading or mandate. You know, if it's too extreme, Democrats are just, and inhumane, they're just going to overturn it. So try to find happy medium, maybe. Well, I don't doubt the Democrats would overturn it, but I'm talking, but the popular sentiment in America, overwhelmingly supports, you've got to have a secure southern border, no matter how you do it. You got to have a secure southern border. And I don't want to do this debate too much because the thing I hate about the illegal immigration debate with Democrats is it's never logical. It's not how human beings solve problems. Human beings have solved problems

and they can say, hey, I've got three problems here. Democrats' entire approach to this has been we've got to solve them all at once or we can't solve any of them. You guys, like, we have to solve the pathway to citizenship and dealing with the population of illegal immigrants at the same time we secure the border is one of the most dishonest ploys and not and not rational like no one does that no one says hey man the bathtub's overflowing get the mop i'll get to the faucet in a little bit it's no we handle one thing at a time you turn off the faucet so it stops overflowing the bathtub then you get the mop and then you figure it out and you have forced this debate into having it be a pathway to citizenship debate and a secure border debate at the same time and it's just like i don't want to do that every time

I have to talk about securing the border. I don't disagree with you, actually, on that. I mean, I do think Biden did what you said, right? When the law didn't get, when they didn't push the bill through, he took executive action, and the border crossings have come down from what the stats say. In the last, yeah, what was that in the last six months? Yeah, I know what's talking about. Yeah.

Okay, let's take this conversation full circle, Michael. I appreciate all this back and forth. The full circle is we've been talking about. Biden's legacy and what happened here and how we got to the point that we are. The point that we are, though, is now Joe Biden has issued this pardon for Hunter Biden. Yeah. You brought up law and politics. You heard what I had to say at the outset of the show about the charges to Hunter Biden.

I actually understand the role of the father in this whole thing. I actually do. I get it, you know. You know, I actually, even though I don't think I would do it, although I don't know that I've ever been in the position. like Chris Cuomo being a propagandist for his brother on CNN like I mean they are brothers like at some point blood is thicker than water now I think my job is to tell the truth and I'm hope I'm never put in a situation between blood and truth but I get at least the choice that Chris was in I get that Joe Biden wants to protect and save his son no matter what kind of dirtbag his son might be but then there's the hypocrisy side of it okay I won't do it I won't do it I won't do it moral high ground moral high ground and then he does it. Okay. But the biggest issue is the blanket one. It's the blanket pardon. It's not just about the gun charge. It's not just about the tax evasion. It's 11 years.

By the way, that's a weird number, Michael, you'd have to admit, not a decade, a very specific 11 years tied to basically the time period at which Hunter Biden began his tenure on a member, as a member of the board of Burisma in Ukraine. And now all that is wiped away. That is the real story. I don't know if it's as big of a story as you think. I mean, yeah, obviously it was carved out for that purpose to extend back to that because, all right, let's put it a different way. Do you trust the Republican Judiciary Committee and the Trump administration to just not follow up on what? they've been saying they were going to do, which is to go after Hunter Biden after he leaves office.

Do you think, do you trust them to just drop this issue now that it's been part into the way Democrats have dropped, you know, that I hope that they wouldn't? You would hope that they wouldn't. So, you know, even though, um, two years under Donald Trump and his DOJ and four years under this DOJ, they only came up, they only yielded these two minor first time offenses, you still think there's more. there is what you're saying i absolutely do and i think i'll be i think that i'm not being cute when i say be careful here because i think in the next month i think your pardons aren't done and i think those pardons are going to suggest culpability for other members of the biden family um i don't what why what have they have they been i don't think anybody i don't think jimmy's being investigated for anything is he maybe but he has been to your point of which said minniko he's been investigated by Congress, by congressional oversight committees.

By Republicans, yes. And by the way, what we're talking about here is, we're talking about a period of time where you're suggesting the reason for the pardon is that Republicans are going to go after him. I'm suggesting the reason for the pardon is, I'm suggesting the reason for the pardon is a Republicans might find something. And that's the issue. And I think the date, I think the date supports me. No, no, no. They haven't found anything. And Will, they've been investigating Hunter Biden for six years now, six years. That's longer than Monica Lewinsky and Ken Starr. Come on. Are you saying there's no prosecutor that Donald Trump and Bill Barr could have found who is sophisticated enough to find more than these two minor first time offenses in six years or the entire. Yeah, I am saying that. Yeah, I'm saying that a justice department that is actually interested in finding the truth led by new people.

isn't and isn't by the way like i had miranda divine on the show yesterday oh i saw i saw the fiction she spewed sorry like about the geolocation of hunter biden's phone she just got a lot of things wrong actually that's all that's all like what i don't know where to begin um mostly around barisma um but what about finish your thought and then we can come back to that we'll come back to Burisma because she yeah no that's okay I mean that's a charge that you leveled that I will give airtime to if you say she got something wrong oh she got a lot go ahead and tell me what she got wrong there was there was no investigation of Burisma by that prosecutor does she I assume she's aware that there were the that anything related to Burisma was dormant for six

years there was an investigation into Burisma by Ukraine's anti-corruption practices group from 2010 to 2012 and nothing since. Now, Hunter Biden didn't join the board, of which he has every right to do to join a private company's board in 2014. So I'm not sure what investigation into Burisma or all this corruption that she's referring to because Devin Archer told the committee

and your colleague Tucker Carlson, they were fine with having that prosecutor there. They were perfectly fine with choking because he wasn't doing anything against corruption. That's the whole point. That's why Biden in 2015 came in and said, you know, you guys got to get this guy out of here. But the important thing to acknowledge about the prosecutor, long before Joe Biden got involved in Ukraine, Ron Johnson, Rob Portman, the IMF, EU officials, the U.S. Treasury officials, everybody was pushing this prosecutor out. It wasn't Joe Biden. Joe Biden came in eight months into the process. And that's what's been so funny for us on the Biden campaign in 2020 and ever since on this Burisma stuff. It's just, you know, this was a, I guess a conspiracy conjured up by Rudy Giuliani.

really has no, it's a good story, but there's no factual evidence. Why pardon him? Why pardon him? Probably. So, all right. Why does he need a pardon? If you're right, I'm only, that nothing has come of this for six years and that there's nothing there anyway, and he has no legal liabilities. Why does he need a pardon? the Republicans. Well, first of all, so there's two reasons. I mean, I don't know. I'm not in the president's mind. I can only gather that they assume, well, Hunter has huge legal bills. He's probably broke, right? Do you think they want to put him through more financial misery either? I don't think so. I'm sure if he had the opportunity to wipe the slate clean for his son, I'm sure, given what we know how civility and politics is different than how the Biden's, you know, coexisted, the political system for decades and how they raised their family with other Republican

members of the Senate and spouses. It's very different today. And they learned, Biden's had to learn the hard way. They weren't used to this kind of, families were not in play for the 40 years that they were mostly in politics. And it was very new to them. They were ready for it. They understood it.

But this has been, this has been extraordinarily painful for them. And I just want, want you to think about one thing. I know it's easy to, to target somebody with a lot of personal flaws. But I think about what your friend is going through, Pete is going through right now. Imagine what he's going through right now, the humiliations and the personal, the personal nature to which he's being judged instead of the professional nature he's being judged. the personal nature imagine that going on for six years and for hunter through hell yeah i mean for hunter well i'm just saying i imagine imagine i don't think either the vices i don't think the vices are on the same scale or more the virtues and the qualifications well on the same scale

or look that's according to either one right that's according to the reporting and i don't believe i don't believe everything i read but i also don't think you should leave everything you read about hunter we're we're casting judgments on somebody who is flaw and all i'm and and sick and all i'm saying is he's taken responsibility he's paid his debt to society paid back his taxes in full but long before he was indicted so but okay i i understand the point you understand the point i understand the point about attacking someone's personal flaws instead of their merits that being said i said i understand understand the point about about attacking someone's personal flaws as opposed to addressing them on the merits i don't think that's comparable between pete heggseth and and some some on my

side but some are going to say to now i don't look i don't know good luck with that i don't have a dog in this fight but but assault is very different next i'll say um you you've you gave your fact check in your estimation of miranda divine i promise you tomorrow i'll revisit this we'll fact check you we'll compare the two we'll see who we think is right together um okay i'll look at that as well i'll look at that as well um and then finally i appreciate the time that you've given to say this has been a wide ranging and in i'm not trying to be a curiosity filled i'm enjoying the discussion you're not trust me i have a long history of debating stephen a smith this is not combative okay um so uh so no we'll have you back but for now i'm gonna leave here i've got

emily compano coming up here on the will cane show but uh michael lorosa again a former special assistant to President Biden, press secretary to the first lady. We appreciate you being on the Will Kane show. Thanks, Michael. Yeah, thanks for having me. Okay. As a long conversation, I think it's fascinating. And maybe we'll have him back to debate Miranda Divine face-to-face.

We'll definitely fact-check what he had to say. Don't go anywhere. You need to be right here again tomorrow on the Will Cane Show. But don't go anywhere today as well because Emily Campania is going to join us in just moments to talk about her new book, Under His Wings, The Role of Faith, and prayer in war. Plus, college football, top 20, top 12. Playoffs tonight, it's the Will Cain Show.

I'm Janice Dean. Join me every Sunday as I focus on stories of hope and people who are truly rays of sunshine in their community and across the world. Listen and follow now at Fox Newspodcast.com. Fox News Audio presents Unsolved with James Patterson, Every crime tells the story, but some stories are left unfinished. Somebody knows.

Real cases, real people. Listen and follow now at foxtruecrime.com. We're down to one wild card as best as I can tell. I'm writing it out right now. The 12-team, first ever, 12-team college football playoff is just about set as we head into conference championship weekend. with one wild card. It's the Will Kane show streaming live at Fox News.com on the Fox News YouTube channel

and the Fox News Facebook page. Hit subscribe at Apple or Spotify. Then you have the Will Kane podcast, show podcast, listen to it whenever you want. Or every Monday through Thursday right here, 12 o'clock Eastern time on YouTube. Let me bring in the Willisian, let me bring in the guys in New York.

So, fellas, I'm just writing this down. I'm trying to figure this out. I think we're down to one wild card And the debate, if we don't get this wild card, is Alabama versus the ACC. That basically is the debate. Which, by the way, tinfoil pat, are you going to be an ACC defender because you're a Florida State fan? Because you kind of hate on Miami, too. So if it came down to Miami versus Alabama for the final spot in the 12-team playoff,

are you going to go two-loss Miami who hasn't really beat anybody or three-loss Alabama? F Miami Bama can have it The most objective he's ever been What if it is What if it's To Laus SMU versus Alabama They shouldn't even be here

They're a G5 school So Wow They get out of here I'm a little sour after They're a G5 school They don't deserve it No

They Oh SMU Yeah Set it No They're a good school They didn't To be objective

if they deserve to get in, regardless winter loss. So. All right. Help me lay this out as I'm looking at it. This is done already. These guys are in. Four Big Ten schools. Well, I shouldn't actually shouldn't say that. I guess there's a chance Indiana could be in trouble. So let's come back to the Big Ten. Three SEC schools are in no matter what. Texas, Georgia, Tennessee. They're not borderline. One of them gets the conference championship. The other two get an at-large bid. The only one that could even be debatable is Georgia, do they get an at-large bid with three losses, but the committee has said if you lose your conference championship game,

we're not going to penalize you. So to my mind, Georgia three losses is still in. So I think those three are in the playoff. Notre Dame's in the playoff. The winner of Boise State UNLV on Friday night is in the playoff as the highest rated group of five champion Arizona State or Iowa State the winner of the big 12 is in the playoff but not the other the loser is not going

so that puts me at three four five six and then there's the big ten I think three big ten teams are in Ohio State Penn State, and Oregon. They're in. Now, Indiana, with only one loss,

is in a pool with the second ACC team and the fourth SEC team, right? Am I getting it right? So I say second because if SMU wins the ACC, they're in Clemson's Z. out and maybe Miami gets a second bid. It's a Miami versus Alabama debate. If Clemson wins the ACC championship game, they get the auto bid, and it now probably comes down to

SMU versus Bama. I don't think South Carolina is going to get in there, even though I think they're the best team, like legit best team left out. They can't get in because they lost Alabama. I don't think Ole Miss gets in because they lost Alabama. So Alabama, among those teams is the most likely one to get in and it comes down to Alabama versus either Miami or SMU. Thoughts. Patrick? Well, I don't think you can trust whatever the committee has been saying this year after for precedent. So I think they're going to get, you know, a fourth SEC team in there regardless. And, you know, if they think that it's South Carolina, it could be South Carolina. I don't think head-to-head really matters that much.

So I was talking to my wife about this. She doesn't really know college football very well. And she was asking about strength of schedule for the playoff. And I was trying to explain it to her and how important it is. So when you're talking about this, how would you explain that how important or high up on the scale strength of schedule is what it's coming to? Well, no one knows. No, I know.

But that's the gray area. I know. But like a three lost Alabama team, you'd be like. Like, absolutely not they're in the playoff. They're not in the playoff. So is it strength of schedule? Why, their strength of the schedule is what's better than Indiana. Wins or losses?

Indiana played like, yeah, but Indiana, strength of schedule is like who are you beating, you know? And the answer for Indiana is not many people of any good record. And you lost real bad the one time you did play somebody good in Ohio State. But then Notre Dame lost FIU real bad. Yeah, but you have one loss, so that's going to get you in, the fact that you have one loss. And by the way, Notre Dame's looked really good since then, and gotten better as the season's gone along. That's true. I think, Patrick, I don't think it's conspiracy.

This is what I think. If Clemson wins the ACC, SMU should get the last at-large bid over Alabama. I think SMU has shown enough this year, and they'd be at two losses. I think if SMU wins the ACC championship game, Alabama should get the at-large bid over Miami. I've been in Miami's skeptic all year, to be honest. Their defense is horrific. It's horrific.

Their offense is fun. Cam Ward's fun, but their defense is awful. And I think Bama, although they have some bad losses because they're kind of a roller coaster team, when they're on and Jalen Milrose on, they'll beat anybody. They can beat anybody. I don't think the same thing of Miami.

I don't think Miami goes on a four-game run and is capable of beating anybody. The minute they run into somebody that's good with either a good defense or a good offense, they're not going to be able to keep up like they did. Even with Syracuse, they kept up. You know what I mean? It ended up being like a 50 to 50 game.

I can't remember the final score. But it was basketball. It was a basketball game. And I don't believe that Miami's worthy in that scenario. So that's how I take out the Alabama versus ACC debate. We're going to find out tonight. The top 12 rankings come out tonight.

It's the final rankings before the final weekend conference championship game in college football. Emily Campano is co-host of Outnumbered here on the Fox News Channel. She's my friend. She has a new book out called Under His Wings. She's written about the power of faith and prayer in war. She went back into her family history. She talked to war fighters in modern day. She's talked to war fighters from World War II, Vietnam.

Afghanistan, Iraq, Korea, about God and being a warfighter. We spoke to Emily yesterday. Here is Emily Campanyo. Emily Campanyo, the co-host of Outnumbered, my friend. Also, the author of a brand new book, Under His Wing. Joining us now on The Wheel Cane Show. What's up, Emily? Thanks for having me, Will.

So grateful to be on. So this is exciting. You've got a new book out under his wings. Tell me about this. This is about the connection between warfighters and prayer. Yes, sir. And I just want you to know how much I appreciate being able to talk to you about this, because you approach every topic, every concept, very thoughtfully, very holistically, you are not a top crust kind of person. And this book, while it can be summed up concisely, it is really three books and one and it has a depth to it that goes far beyond the tagline, which is how faith has protected American troops on the front lines. I come from a really strong military family and we have a quite a legacy that I'm honored to serve as a messenger for. And for example, my great-great-aunt, she was a lieutenant in the U.S. Army Nurse Corps.

And in World War II, she deployed for 16 months while there visiting her brother who had made the ultimate sacrifice, my great-great-uncle in Sarenne, France. But she wrote home. And so we saved her letters. My family saved her letters that she wrote home throughout the entire deployment. And we have this really vivid and insane insight into what it was like to be a female nurse on the front lines in World War II in Europe. Her first procedure, will, was a leg amputation.

And she was from New York. So she, you know, slipped out from the New York Harbor on the 125th hospital expedition ship. I think I butcher it how to phrase that name. But it's really an incredible look into history. My great, great cousin was there on Pearl Harbor. So through my family stories and our records in the book, our photographs, any military history buff will love this. And then to your point, the warfighter stories that I have the honor of carrying the voices for from World War II through the global war on terror and the front lines being home, you know, what battling the ultimate sacrifice grief looks like and PTSD and catastrophic wounds, these intimate experiences that these warfighters had on the battlefield. Again, the battlefield could be your own home now, deeply intimate experiences with God and their faith,

and what that looked like, stories from POWs in Vietnam and infantrymen in Vietnam, Korean War. It's a really profound book because of the voices within, not anything I did. And then my USO tour in Kuwait and Iraq in 2009, where we got stranded in Sauter City, Baghdad, which if anyone knows, they know that is sort of an insane place to get stranded, let alone to even be as an NFL cheerleader. And the colonel there took great care of us. We were there all night, and he drove over an IED three days later. He lost his legs, and another young sergeant, Sergeant Timothy David, lost his life.

And 15 years later, he and I reunited. And as he credits prayer with surviving multiple times, he died multiple times to be resuscitated, Will, that reunion story and the story of his triumph. As he says, God promised me eternal life, not eternal legs. is in this book. Incredible. So I am familiar with some of your personal connection to the military. Let's touch on the third and first portion of this book as you broke it down into essentially

three different walks through the role of faith and war. And the third and the first focus on the connection to you, Emily. I know as a Raiders cheerleader, you took tours over there. I think that was part of why you were with the USO tours. but you were just saying I don't want to be weird and hold up my book but I want you to be weird and hold up your book because you were showing me

inside the book like in the front jacket or all the medals won by your family so while I've known you've had this connection to the military you just rattled off like two branches of your family tree like how much how much is your family

committed to the U.S. military? Everyone and thank you for that thank you for saying that so these are all in the end papers These are all the medals that are my families that hang on my childhood homes walls. And then in the back end papers, these are what I had the privilege of receiving in Kuwait and Iraq, all of mine, as simply a visiting USO tour cheerleader. But I had soldiers, you know, taking off patches from their uniforms and handing it to me. So my father was a commander in the U.S. Navy Medical Corps.

My uncle's both army, great-grandfather, Purple Heart in World War II, World War I and World War II. I had multiple, at one point, for example, what I got, Aunt Lou, I call her, she was my great, great, great aunt that I mentioned. She had seven direct relatives in the military in all branches at the same time and the same week that her brother lost his leg before making the ultimate sacrifice, her brother-in-law, over, which was my great-grandfather, over in Jalgonne, France, a shell exploded under him. He was in a coma for 30 days. his wife Rosa was told he was dead. And for 30 days, thought she was a war widow,

only to discover via telegram that he was actually alive. And at the end of that, you know, he was taken from a combat position and he worked in then the POW camps because he spoke German. So on the back cover, there's a picture of a POW camp, and that's my great-grandfather there. And my great-grandmother, my great-grandmother, I'm sorry if I'm, I know there's like throwing all these greats. But my great-great-grandmother, also Rosa, which is,

my middle name is Rose, was part of the 1930 Gold Star Pilgrimage that Calvin Coolidge signed into law. So all of the Gold Star mothers and widows sailed over in the 30s to visit where their husbands and sons were buried. She went to Surin France. So I have these photographs of her at her son's grave and then her daughter at her brother's grave and then my mother at that grave. he was part of the Rainbow Division under Patton. So these legacies I credit my mother with wholeheartedly for as our family historian telling me this story, keeping the record, showing me these photographs.

And this is just the tip of the iceberg, Will, I mean, there's so much more depth in the book and so many more people that I go into that are my beloved ancestors that I'm so proud to, again, just serve as a very tiny messenger for their bravery and them being heroes of faith

and heroes of, to me, heroes of war. Well, that's an amazing quote that you gave us from modern day, your liaison, when you went on your USO tours about God promised me eternal life. He did not promise me eternal legs. But your mom being the family historian and all these different members of your family who have served and you getting to go through their letters, what did you find about the role of faith and prayer and God in all of these warfighters? The dominant theme, Will, I would say, is that Jesus is always with you. God never leaves your side. Even if we as humans turn our back, if we have questions, if we rage at the heavens for moral injury and for loss sustained and grief

that is inexplicable in the throes of fear and battle and anguish over so much that occurs on this earthly life that we are never alone, no one. And these stories, the theme is these warfighters on the front lines and at home realizing such and passing it on. And I think the role, I would say, you know, taking it a step further, that the role faith plays in the family of these warfighters, my first letter home, the first letter home from my great-great-aunt, said to her mom again, who had lost her son in a war before, said, all is well, Mom, no need to worry.

I've been going to communion every Sunday. I go to church every Sunday. And she is a nurse continuing to show faith and encourage the men under her care to receive communion or go to church. She went to the French churches. She went to French funerals. And that was to me a lesson that the role these nurses play in encouragement and solidarity and support for these men and also at that time for these men.

And in the way of showing that faith, of helping them to keep the faith, as these POWs as well, keep the faith baby is kept in Plum's phrase that he learned while in torture. captivity and the whole point is you can endure anything by keeping this faith and by showing others you know you are such a lighthouse to others if you maintain it too you know i've seen different interviews you've given after this book has come out on fox i've seen you talking to david asman and i heard you talking about the stories of for example a prisoner of war um leaning on faith and sharing faith with other prisoners of war in vietnam it's almost easier for me emily to myself into that situation and see what a support system faith would be, then it is for me

to put myself, as you mentioned, into the position of the home. So I've had a very privileged life. I haven't served, and not many members of my family, direct family, have served in war. If you go back generations, everyone served to some capacity. But what I'm getting at is I think it would be harder and I hope that I never have to experience this with a son or um anyone close to me I think it would be harder to be the recipient of that news to be the centerpiece of that news I think it would be harder to be a mother I think it would be harder to be a wife I think it would be incredibly hard to lose like that and then to in to not question God but instead um turn to God as your support I just that is a very difficult thing for me

Honestly, to imagine, and I know that's what's going to be revealed in your book. I agree. Wholeheartedly, I agree. And that's why the subjects in this book, to me, are such, you know, they are extraordinary, ordinary individuals. In that, to me, every warfighter is extraordinary. And also their stories, unfortunately, are all too common with the anguish and the pain and the violence and such. And the heroes of faith that all of these subjects represent, especially to your point, these families. I mean, it's just remarkable. There's a gold star mother, Laura DeRue, I had the

honor of interviewing, and her son, Gabriel, who gave his life in service to this country. The guys called him John 316. They nicknamed him that. And he said he wrote home and told his parents, if there's a grenade, I'm going to be the first one on it because these guys need more time to get right with God. And Sarah Verardo, who is an incredible figure, co-founded Independence Fund, founded Save Our Allies with her catastrophically wounded husband who has endured over a hundred surgeries she tells me if it's not good God's not done and that level of faith and commitment of showing up knowing of demonstrating to me what it's like to be a biblical wife to love biblically to love as a Christian to maintain that faith to your point I mean that's that is beyond words

and I agree with you it's the most remarkable humbling concepts to see going back to Laura DeRue, you know, she felt so inspired by her son's walk. She now has brought faith to the Gold Star Mother's Association. They didn't use to reference God even at all, or faith at all in these funerals and their grief circles. And she's now brought back God and Jesus directly to it. So Gabriel's light continues to serve, continues to light up the Gold Star world, which so tragic is a very sacred community that, to your point, and she says, how could anyone get through it without faith? This is unfathomable without faith. So this is going to ties into the second part of your book where you've talked to so many modern day warfighters as well.

So your family history, the documents that your mother as the family historian, the letters that you've read, you have therefore been a witness to what people had to say in World War II. I don't know if this goes back for you to World War I, Vietnam. but then modern day warriors as well in Afghanistan and Iraq. And I'm curious as you read through this. And I know that the central focus of your book is the connection between this and faith. Do you see any change or is it constant? Is it consistent?

When you read letters from someone who fought in World War II and you talk to or interview someone who fought in Iraq, do you hear the same sentiments or do you see a change in the relationship between the soldier and God? That's a great question. and I do not feel that I could serve as an analyst in that way for these walks of faith and across the myriad conflicts and decades. I will just say that in my particular book and in the conversations I had and the memories and legacies that I hold, everyone's walk is different and in different ways that, for example, one of the Korean War soldiers always carried a Bible in his pocket, but he wasn't quite strong in faith.

He carried it because his grandmother gave it to him. And yet he endured, he made it through the war, he survived. He was wounded in battle and since then has become quite strong in his faith. And when I asked him, what would your advice be for soldiers now? He said to carry a Bible, you know, it's the reflection that was important. And there are others, for example, Global War on Terror Warfighters. So, you know, our generation warfighters that went in strong in faith, had a situation that threatened to dismantle, it and then was restored again on the battlefield or perhaps wasn't strong at all in faith and

had a situation that let them know. In Vietnam, Sergeant Enfinger had a really beautiful experience. He went in strong as a Christian, prayed on his knees every night, but was totally broken of that when he saw the men around him dying, good men dying, good fathers dying, and he stopped talking to God. And then in the thick of a horrific ambush, God gave him a vision. And because of that vision he knew where to go and how to survive and he did and that restored his conversation with god so you know everyone it's so deeply personal and intimate but i think you will see and read in these stories how um again i think the dominant theme is that they're never alone even if it takes a while for them to realize it right and i totally respect and appreciate and think it's accurate

which you said that everyone's walk is unique everyone's is individual i do wonder as you described some of that look um for a lot of us and i'm going to put myself in that bucket like my exposure to war is hollywood's replication of war it's their illustration of war for me you know and war is hell and i do wonder just as somebody who you've you've gotten to see a lot and talk to a lot of people what is interesting to me as well is from different eras and different wars if different wars had different kinds of impacts on on soldiers and and and thus how they view god or how they view faith you know i don't know i don't know is what a guy saw in world war two what kind of impact does that have on him and again everything's individualized but if there are any common allies versus what a guy saw

in vietnam versus what a guy saw in afghanistan and in and their impact and you know i don't know their own individual walk with god i will say that i noticed what factors into that impact will are things like age and that just such a young age for example of the World War II Sergeant Andy Negra veteran that I spoke to you know that's those are just you know he's a man and he's a boy at the same time

you know I say that as a middle aged woman I say that with respect but that young age as well the the factors of public support you know again Sergeant Enfinger who discussed the return and what that looked like for him how hard that was the Korean War vets as well as well of a camaraderie that they have.

So again, Sergeant Enfinger, who said every morning we would pass around a thermos and share coffee, rarely would it be the same men the next day. Every day I would lose men that I had coffee with that morning. And you contrast that with, for example, Major Jeff Struker, who survived the Battle of Mogadishu, who in part because of the incredible brotherhood around him, and after he had his calling on the tarmac, he argues, you know, the miracle might not be his survival, but actually what happened on the tarmac after when God called him to ministry and to a man, every person within his unit that survived that day physically is now a practicing Christian. And so that, you know, that kind of

miracle, that walk again, you know, so he had those men survived that, or the men that did, I should say, you know, went on in that molecule to survive what happened next. So I think there's so many factors that go into that as we look back at history in the conflicts and how interesting, you know, the Korean War was sort of similar to World War II in the trench warfare and the weather impact, right? And the atrocious conditions. And yet the impact on the public front was so different.

So I think all of those come into play. Pearl Harbor, I mentioned my great cousin. I call it my great cousin because it's like, you know, it's a little convoluted. But again, he was Aunt Lou's cousin who was living at Connie O'Haye Bay. And he and his wife and his kids

strafed that morning the attack before they went on to Pearl Harbor. And then he was headed to his station at pearl harbor and the aftermath of that and what living on an island was like they were hunting their own food in the hills i mean sort of straying now from your question and i apologize but um so many factors for each conflict you're not yeah you know you're not i mean i can't help but ask the curiosities that that come into my mind and i think what you're illustrating for all of us is the kind of stories that you've shared in the depth of research and i can't believe your ability for recall of all these different individual names

are specifically the ones that aren't related to you as we talk about this but i want to ask you a little bit of a selfish question and and that is this um you know i know these things come about various ways i know a book can be pitched to you and that's how the book comes about like i've often thought well you should write a book what do i want to write about what i want to give this amount of time to so i want to ask you like how this became the inspiration for your book but i'm not going to ask it that way because again there's so many ways maybe fox news said here's a great idea, Emily, or maybe you came up with the idea. But at some point in this process, Emily, you had to be inspired. Like, you had to be inspired to say, I am giving my time for this.

Maybe it was at inception, or maybe it was after the idea was launched and you had to put your time and effort and sit and research and talk and read and ultimately write. So I'm just kind of curious, why this, what inspired you to write this? I mean, straight up, my real answer is that it was divine. Like I wholeheartedly know that God created this opportunity for me because I know wholeheartedly that this book serves to enlarge his territory and serves to enlarge the territory of those voices within. It was a collaboration. The earthly reason is it was a collaboration between Fox and Harper Collins and I. And so the conversations we had rather quickly led to this in its entirety. And again, on my mom, you know, she's written books that were self-published as the family historian.

You know, frankly, she was a genealogist. So she had already written 85 pages single spaced on Aunt Lou alone. Like, I can't keep up with her. So the deepest honor I have in addition to serving as a messenger for those proclaiming their faith in Jesus Christ and God is that I was able to carry the ball that my mom started, that I could. you know, go to my mom and say, this is our book and her life's work and her passion and are all our relatives' voices who are in this book, some of, many of whom aren't with us anymore, but the researchers of my generation, some of whom aren't with us anymore. Like, that is what I'm so deeply proud of. And that's how I know as well that this book is so, like I talked about in

the beginning, it's so much deeper than just, you know, telling a story that I had in 2009. This is the culmination of a life's passion, many life's passions, actually. Well, first of all, I'm super jealous of your mom. No, I really think it's awesome that you know your family history like that. And I want to, and I know a little bit because I've done internet research, but I've never really paid for whatever genealogy.com, and I think it even has its limitations, but you can go pretty deep. But I've thought, even recently, like, I'm going to hire somebody

because I don't have the time to do it necessarily. I'm going to hire somebody because I want all of this info. I think you've got to know who you are and where you come from. And I think that's awesome that your mom has done that for your family. Secondarily, I love your answer. That not only was it divine, the inspiration for this, but that it was part of spreading his territory, as you put it, because I don't know, there's a lot of different ways in which we think about God

and your own personal relationship with God. But seeing it through the lens of war and service and these types of people is I think definitely an act of service in spreading his territory. So I think that's awesome. And I can't wait. I can't wait to get my hands on the book, which I don't have yet, but I can't wait to have under his wings. And I wish you the best, Emily.

I hope this is a, I hope everyone gets a copy. I'm so grateful to you, Will, thank you. And I'll just say, if I may, to put one more piece of the pie in there, that the chaplain and the ministerial lens that, for example, Doug Collins, who's now the nomination for nominee for the secretary of the VA, You know, he told me the greatest case of PTSD he ever saw was another chaplain who ministers to the minister and the questions of moral injury in the landscape of the 2024, you know, where maybe it's a button that you're pressing, but you're still leading to questions of moral injury as the button you're pressing is leading to death on the other side. And so that too, I think, you know, my prayer is that the encouragement here and the application, you know, it's historical, but it's also, it's also in this landscape today and what that looks like. the questions remain the same, but the, you know, situation changes. And so I hope that everyone

can resonate with whatever part resonates with them, it will be applicable in that way. And I'm so deeply grateful to you for this very generous time that you've spent with me on this and listening to me. Thank you. Thank you so much. I'm so grateful. Absolutely. Everyone will be better for it. By the way, you help me remind me. My grandfather was a chaplain in World War II, so I don't need to undercut my own family's military service but well do you go you if you have anyone in your family that remembers the stories or has letters from him or records or anything that yeah that's incredible that's amazing I need to talk to my mom I need to talk to my mom more deeply about it I definitely I definitely do see this is why I'm jealous you knowing everything about your family I'm serious

like it's it's incredible well my advice is and by the way I I feel remiss in that my mom has you know what I know is probably 10% of what my mom has told me when you talk to your mom Record it, Will, write it down so that you capture those details. And when you have your conversations with your loved ones, somehow record it, and then that's the way to ensure that it's passed down and you can share it with your kids and your identity and your legacy grows. Awesome. Emily Campano, Under His Wings.

Go get the book. Thank you, Emily. Thank you. Thank you. Emily Campano, again, pick up her new book, Under His Wings. This week, Thursday, the Will Cain Show is going to be live. from the Patriot Awards. If you're going to the Patriot Awards,

come see us. We'll be live at 12 o'clock there from the venue on Long Island. We'd love to see you. We'd love to meet you. Patriot Awards this Thursday, we'll have a ton of guests there from the Patriot. It'll be a big show on Thursday. So make sure you set a reminder for that show. Live at 12 o'clock Eastern Time

on YouTube and on Facebook. Until then, I will see you again next time. Listen ad-free with a Fox News podcast plus subscription on Apple Podcast, and Amazon Prime members, you can listen to this show, ad-free on the Amazon music app. Listen to the all-new Brett Bear podcast featuring Common Ground, in-depth talks with lawmakers from opposite sides of the aisle, along with all your Brett Bear favorites like his All-Star panel and much more. Available now at foxnewspodcasts.com or wherever you get your podcasts.