Will Cain Country - From The Vault: The TRIGGERnometry Podcast On Gen Z And The Future

Episode Date: November 27, 2025

Happy Thanksgiving! In this best of episode of 'Will Cain Country,' Will goes into the vault for a conversation with Co-hosts of the 'TRIGGERnometry Podcast,' Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin. They discuss the future of Gen Z’s impact on politics, especially when so many feel that they are pushed out of homeownership and meaningful employment. They also discuss how the younger generations are seeing an unprecedented political split between the genders, and how this has led some into looking up to harmful role models instead of positive ones. Subscribe to ‘Will Cain Country’ on YouTube here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠Watch Will Cain Country!⁠⁠ Follow ‘Will Cain Country’ on X (⁠⁠@willcainshow⁠⁠), Instagram (⁠⁠@willcainshow⁠⁠), TikTok (⁠⁠@willcainshow⁠⁠), and Facebook (⁠⁠@willcainnews⁠⁠) Follow Will on X: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@WillCain Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Which way will Gen Z lead a revolution towards wokeism and destruction or the creation of a positive vision with the co-host of Trigonometry? It is Wilcane Country, normally streaming live every Monday through Thursday at 12 o'clock Eastern time at the Will Cain Country YouTube channel, but you can always follow us at Spotify. or on Apple. Happy Thanksgiving. This is a best of edition of Will Kane country, wherein we're joined by the co-hosts of Trigonometry. That's Francis Foster and Constantine Kissin. Let's get into it now. On which way will Gen Z lead a revolution? Here are the hosts of Trigonometry. Constantine Kissin is the co-host of Trigonometry podcast. He's also the author of an immigrants love letter to the West. He's a satirist. He's on X at Constantine. and his co-host is Francis Foster. He's the co-host of Trigonometry. He's a stand-up comedian,

and he's on X at Francis J. Foster. What's up, guys? I'm really happy to have you on the Will Cain Show. That's great to be on, man. Yeah, looking forward to it. So I know that you guys were on hold, and I appreciate your patience as I was leading in very, very eloquently, but also verbosely into this discussion here today. And I want to talk to you about Gen Z. I want to talk to you about something you had on your podcast, Trigonometry recently, talking about, does it lead us towards revolution and what kind of revolution when it comes to Gen Z? But I did just kind of want to open this up. You heard what I had to say today about masculinity, about Christianity, about the search for a church, and I'm just curious if you had any reaction.

Well, the first thing that really stood out for me, and I'm glad we were on hold because we got a chance to see some of the things you were talking about, which I think are really profound and are the right questions that people are going to be asking going into the future. I mean, the most obvious thing to pick up in terms of what you were saying is the kind of the state of the world now is we used to have thicker skins than we do now on all sides of the spectrum. And so what happens now is like our skin has melted off. And the moment anyone brushes past us, we immediately assume it was some hostile act because we kind of experience it as much more painful. So this thing that happened with the Biden White House press release, it just points to something which is, you know, and I've said this for a long time, the danger is the danger of. and all of this stuff is not only workness itself, but also the reaction that's going to

cause. And I think we're starting to see that now, because we react excessively to things as well quite regularly now, because we've been staring into that abyss for so long. And it's worth bearing in mind as well that we talk about Gen Z and we blame them and we point the finger at them. But actually, who is to blame for the fact that Gen Z have turned out the way they are? Is it actually Gen Z or is it actually us who have inculcated those values in them, who have brought up this generation who see the world in this way. And the reality is it's far easier to point the finger at Gen Z than actually to look at our generation and previous generations and think to ourselves, actually, we failed them. Because in many ways,

we have. You know, Constantine, that leads into this discussion that you guys have been having, which you talked about the reaction to the event, the outrage, and whether or not it can veer too far, in another direction. And it does veer, as you point out, in a predictable direction. And it's inherently unappealing, at least to me, because I don't like feeling that way all the time. I don't like feeling negative. And I've just noticed this recurring theme for you and for both of you guys, but this is to you, Constance, this recurring theme of we have to find leaders. And I don't even know if we can go about finding leaders if we can't first find it in ourselves of how do we like build a constructive, positive vision of the future. Isn't that so interesting?

that you said we have to find it inside ourselves. And I think that's universally true across the Western world, where when people do come through who are willing to be blunt and honest, which is what we need, we need people to be direct and honest about the tremendous problems

we face in our societies, they are immediately misrepresented, attacked, destroyed, and what that means is we then end up with only massive narcissists going into politics because those are the only people who can stand the experience. I have quite a lot of friends,

that I know who are kind of in our game in the media world. And people say to them, you know, would you go into politics? And they say, why? I'm going to get paid less in order to be shouted out by half the country because I'm going to try and say something that I believe. And so unless we stop doing that, the leaders we have now are the best as ever going to get. But so Francis, what I mean, and also what I mean is,

so I think by our very nature, easily we access outrage. Easily we access negativity. it's just so easy and by the way for guys that do what we do that becomes a really cheap currency to gaining an audience um but but i think it's also somewhat hollow in that it wears off um i mean not only do i can create content i consume a lot of content you know and so when i'm sitting thinking like what do i want to watch what do i want to listen to i don't want to feel negative and not just that's just on the entertainment front but also like on the what is my purpose in this world front, there's just the reaction to wokeism, okay, which is an ideology of destruction.

It's inherently what it's about is destroying the past. Now, I'll give them in an attempt to try to understand that maybe they have a utopic aspiration of the future. But the answer to that has to be that there is an alternative positive vision that's not hollow and that over time people go to because, look, I actually think people, we easily destroy. That's an easy thing to do. It's hard to create, but we're also attracted to creation. Yeah, and one thing as well that we, I feel that we don't talk about when we talk about destruction is the high people get from destruction. Not only is it easy, but it's also you feel justified into your destruction.

You get a visceral thrill from destroying something. How easy is it to tear down a statue, throw it in a river, and all of a sudden you feel like a revolutionary. It's actually far more difficult than going to art college, learning how to become a sculptor, then dedicating your life to becoming a sculptor, and then at one point in your career being able to create a life size and life-like statue. That can take a lifetime of learning, whilst tearing a statue down, throwing it in a river, feeling like a hero, can take a matter of hours. So the reality is, I think, more and more, is that we've been encouraged to think in the short term, whether it's as content providers, creating content, which can create outrage and then go viral. But actually, when you look at the substance, there's not much there, or on the other side of it, tearing that statue down and throwing it in the river. You know, sometimes I'm real, I'm real self-conscious about, I mean, I love this kind of conversation.

I don't want to veer away from it. And I'm also like, well, does the audience think this is two in the clouds, 30,000 feet? It's too esoteric. It's too abstract all times. But like I watched a speech from you, Constine, where you're talking about it specifically applicable to what's happening. Like you said the housing crisis, you talk about the housing crisis among young people, right? And you said, you can't expect young people to not want to turn over the game board and be a revolutionary. If they can't access the basic fundamentals of building a life, which you talk about is like buying a house, building a family inside of a house.

Like it's not just 30,000 feet we're talking about here. It's like you better give young people a positive answer or they're just going to gravitate to destruction because what exists doesn't offer them a solution. Right. And think about, you know, the great promise I think of our societies is that our children will do better than us. that is just not factually correct for the next generation that's coming. It's not going to be the case. And the reason is, if you think about what the American dream was in the 1960s, there was a house with a white picket fence, two or three kids,

or with one person in the family having to work, typically the man goes into a fairly low-level job working in a factory, driving a truck, whatever it is, and he can provide for his family. I was having a conversation with one of our guys here at the studio today who's basically planning to do that. You know, he wants to get married, have children, have a place of his own, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And when we sat down and I was trying to help him map out his thoughts, we kind of realized that he's probably going to need to be a millionaire in actually in order to be able to have that happen in the way that's comfortable living in London, where a two-bedroom house is going to cost you a million pounds in most of the capital. So if that's the reality you're facing, most people aren't going to be millionaires. That means they're not going to have the things that make people want to stay where they are.

Like once you've got a house and you've got a family and you've got kids and blah, blah, blah, you kind of want to keep things moderately good because you're worried about things going south. But if you've got nothing to lose, there's a whole range of things that are going to look very, very attractive to you that we would rather it didn't. You know what I mean? And also as well, I mean, it's a great point by Constantine. Also, as well, you factor in that these young people have seen governments elected into power and successively not deliver on their promises. This conservative government that we have has had 14 years in power

and has done little to nothing to solve the housing crisis, even though they said they would, even though there were various promises made. And as a result of that, these young people are looking at democracy and going, why should I vote? Why should I participate in a democratic system, which when you look at it doesn't work, and it certainly doesn't work for me? So why should we have democracy?

And once you get to that point, then we start entering a very worrying place. Let's take a quick break, but continue this best of edition of Wilcane Country with the co-hosts of Trigonometry. This is Ainsley-Airhart. Thank you for joining me for the 52 episode podcast series, the life of Jesus. A listening experience that will provide hope, comfort, and

understanding of the greatest story ever told. Listen and follow starting November 30th on Fox News Podcasts.com. Welcome back to a best-of edition of Will Kane country on this Thanksgiving holiday. We're joined still by the co-host of Trigonometry, Francis Foster, and Constantine Kissen. So let's go there for just a moment. That's the topic you recently had on Trigonometry. She's like, which way do young people go? What happens with Gen Z? Francis, I think you were talking about, like, it seems like what's guaranteed is some form of revolution.

The question is, is it that revolution of destruction that we're talking about, further leaning into wokeism, into identity politics, and disavowing ourselves of the past? Or is it one where there can be a positive vision where they can be builders of something in the future? It's like one of two things is going to happen with Gen Z. and you were talking about, like, the split is there, by that. I think it's on a male-female, you know, demographic line of which way those two groups are leaning.

Yeah, I mean, the worrying thing is, is that you go, what if the sexes are so split, and they don't can't agree on something as fundamental about how to run a society, how to move forward, we've already got declining birth rates. If we're going to look at Gen Z, and they're not going to be able to buy a problem, and they can't even agree with somebody in the opposite sex,

and they diametrically opposed to them in every way. How are they going to have a relationship, number one? They're not going to buy property. They're not going to have babies. The birth rate is going to plummet even further. What's going to actually happen to our society? We can't keep importing people and having mass migration because what you're going to then see is obliteration of a culture.

It's incredibly worrying. And the way to sum it up, well, I think, is also to look at the, you know, when we talk about that gender split, yes, the woke path is destructive, but what is on the other side of that? And on the other side of that, I think the best way to sum it up easily, like the male role model for guys my age, that's an elderly millennial, is Jordan Peterson in this kind of space. The role model for Gen Z is Andrew Tate. Now, that's a whole shift in energy and what you're bringing to the table and whether you are constructive or destructive and all that. So I think if you just look at that one little data point alone, it kind of tells you where the energy is moving, and we should be really concerned about that, which is why Francis and I've been advocating for a long time now, like, guys, we need

to stop this and start thinking about how to bring people together. That isn't what's happening right now and afraid. Because what you don't want in society is large groups of disenfranchised young men. When you have large groups of disenfranchised young men, that's when things can get very nasty, very quickly. And that's what keeps me keep coming back to this, what sounds like societal self-help conversation about a positive vision. Because I also think someone could come away from this, like, are you, are you like, you know in the Bible like are you lukewarm god spat you out well are you middle grounding this here like no i'm actually not because i don't i want to reject the entire spectrum right i don't i want

to reject this idea that i have to pick the middle ground between two insanities i just want somebody interesting and creative and in society building to emerge who offers answers and by we don't need a messiah we don't need like um but we do need inspiration i think we do need an inspiring leader who who can give some direction i think you're totally right francis you can that's just objectively true look at societies with young men that are that are that are aimless it's it's a horrific recipe for what happens to those societies and by the way i want to bring both of your personal experience in for a second constantine i know you've talked about your family and i don't want to be like hyperbolic here but we're we are talking about at least a rapidly

approaching inflection point in western societies and i know that your family's history is that you've seen how fragile it all can be you know like i think we we all we take for granted the present tense and that the future is only like a bigger, better version of the present, when for me, COVID was pretty revelatory, like, wow, this is all pretty fragile. I'm talking about the way we look at one another. It's fragile. And I know that your family has experienced the fragility of civilization. Yeah, so I was born in the Soviet Union, and my family has seen all sorts of things.

It's so, you know, depending how far back you go, the Soviet Union being created, which was a pretty dramatic event, to put it very mildly, right? and then the Soviet Union collapsing, which was perhaps a slightly less dramatic, but nonetheless, very, very rapid change and, you know, massively impactful on the entire history of the 20th century. But you see that happening in front of your eyes. And I agree with you about COVID, man. Like, I look at that period and I kind of go,

I think that's the period on which history started to happen again. Because you know, like the 1990s, the noughties, as we call them here, like the 2000s, you look at that period and it kind of felt. felt pretty stable. Right now it feels like history is being made. Do you know what I mean? And I think COVID was a very good example of where any illusions that you had about how people might respond in an emergency and that, you know, we're not as divided as we think we are. No, no, no. We're pretty, pretty divided and people will demand things, people into your body without your consent and people will demand that you wear things that don't produce any actual tangible impact in the world

because it makes them feel better and they need a scapegoat. So that's what they're going to do. So, yeah, I think we are about to see some events that will go down in the history books, I'm afraid, yeah. What do you think they will be? I have no idea. I genuinely don't. It just seems to me like geopolitically, what's happening is the United States to step back.

And so hostile powers like Russia and China are clearly looking at this is an opportunity. and then you've got combined that with a kind of you talked about it in your open monologue a you know but we're not even religious people really but it's a loss of spirit it's you don't have to call it god or religion it's a loss of spirit in the west there's a loss of belief there's a lot of loss of confidence and even like you've asked us what is the positive vision and i can see that we're giving you negative answers because it's just hard to see at the moment what that positive vision is so and it's hard to that Me to ask you a positive vision requires, and I'm not insulting you guys, it's all of us have to answer this question. It's hard to create. It's hard to create a positive vision. It's easy to criticize or destroy. And by the way, on the COVID point, Constantine, it's not just leadership. We talk a lot about what it exposed about governments and leadership, but it was also about your neighbor. Like all of a sudden, oh, my neighbor is judging me in what I'm choosing to put over my face. And all of a sudden, you just saw the role that fear can play in changing your neighbor. And that'll shock you. I mean, that'll rock your belief in civilization.

Yeah. Yeah, and that is a very, very profound point because all of a sudden, the person next to you, who you live next to you, who you may have enjoyed their company, you had a cordial relationship with, all of a sudden, you were encouraged, particularly in the UK,

to look at them and go, oh, actually, how many times have they been for a walk today? Did they actually need to go out? Are they actually following COVID protocols? And what it did is it turned us all into these miniature little starzies. And some people actually took a great delight not only in seeing what other people were doing, but also reporting them to police. It actually helped to tear apart societies.

And the fact that the government played an active role in this was nothing less than criminal. yeah i totally agree and i think that the the analogy to the stasi is not i don't think that's crazy i mean go watch the movie the lives of others and tell me if there wasn't elements of covid in that which is about east germany and the stasi and turning in your neighbor um i want to go back to the personal side of this little bit and i'll go to i want to explore yours for a minute francis because you said something i think is fascinating and there's this you know a friend of the show here is douglas murray he writes and talks a lot about the west and um you talks about the west and You talked about importing people.

If declining birth rates in the UK, then you've had this mass migration, importing people. And you made, I think, an important point that somehow gets turned into something controversial. And I'm just like, the only way this point that you made is controversial is if you believe in the inherent evil of our culture. You said the culture will be lost. Yours in the UK or us in the West at a greater extent, more geographically greater. And I think that's just, you have to acknowledge, like the proverbial you, you have to acknowledge that that's the case. Like you have a culture.

And by the way, it's been a very successful culture in progressing humanity. It is, I think, just to keep some themes intertwined in this conversation in my monologue, I do think it's inseparable from Christianity in the West, but it's also bigger than Christianity. And we are importing people who just simply aren't a part of that culture, but that's not all. aren't interested in adopting the culture, which I think you guys see even more than we do. You see that in the UK.

No interest in assimilation, no interest in reverence for the predominant culture. Well, I think one of the challenges that we face in this country is the levels of immigration that we have coming in. And you simply cannot absorb and have a cohesive society with this amount of people coming into the country. And you see how culture. has been obliterated when you ask people what it means to be British and particularly young

people and they'll just stare at you and they'll have no idea what it actually means to be British, why it's special, why being British is a good thing. And in fact, it's actually worse than that because they feel shame for their culture. They feel shame for their country. And if that's the case, then how can you ask people to be proud to be from a particular place or want to defend it or believe in it. If they don't feel pride, they feel the actual opposite of that, which is shame. Let's take a quick break, but continue this best of edition of Wilcane Country with the co-hosts of Trigonometry.

Welcome back to a best-of edition of Wilcane Country on this Thanksgiving holiday. We're joined still by the co-hosts of Trigonometry, Francis Foster and Constantine Kissin. That's, that's, and I always feel like you guys are the canary in the coal mine like you know if we have a cold you have the flu on this on these cultural issues but you know actually but but you know that we all left but the truth is like murray says we've exported wokeism to you that's that's an american export to the uk constantine thank you i totally agree i've been making the same point as thank you yeah we're all very grateful i just went to australia by the way and they downloaded from us so they're a few years

behind it's a very interesting dynamic that happens around the world and it is By the way, it's interesting you mentioned Canary in the coal mine. Somebody said to me, why are so many people from our background, which is stand-up comedy, doing podcasts like this and talking about this stuff? And I've been thinking about it a lot. And I just remember growing up and watching George Carlin and Bill Hicks talk about the importance of freedom of expression and making jokes and getting arrested because they said the wrong thing. And Monty Python here in the UK being cancelled for doing stuff about religion and thinking, yeah, that's my team.

I'm on that team. I'm on the team. Don't tell me what to think. Don't tell me what to say. And don't tell me how to make jokes. Right? And then I went, you know, that was when I was in college. And then I went to, you know, into the real world trying to make a living, make my way as the world is a young man.

And then, you know, 10, 15 years later, it's like I wake up and suddenly like, free speech is a bastion of the far right. And I'm like, whoa, how did that happen? How did that transition happen while I took my eye off the ball for two minutes and suddenly free speech went from this is a liberal position to only bigots want to speak. You know, that's a fascinating transformation to me. This just happened in the tiny amount of time, which it is, objectively, a tiny amount of time. And what's really interesting is I've been watching a lot of George Carlin. And you're watching George Carlin and, you know, George was a hero of the left.

He was a poster boy of the left. And I was watching a lot of his most famous routines. and I'm like, I mean, he kind of sounds like a very problematic old white man at this point. Yeah, you couldn't do that routine right now. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And by the way, guys that almost, I think to a man, I'll just going to name a couple,

who would describe themselves on the left, sound pretty on the right now. Even in contemporary, talk about the tight time frame that you referenced constantly. I mean, like, Dave Chappelle over here. I don't think Dave's show it ever can describe himself as conservative. But Dave Chappelle is not, and he's rejected by the left now. Over there, I don't know Ricky Jervais is, like, I don't know where he is, and I don't know where he's in his evolution, but, you know, I don't think he fits cleanly anymore

into whatever it is, the left. He's far right, like right now, like all of it, man. That's it. Hey, you know that the loss of free speech, or the transformation of it becoming a right-wing thing, I think a lot about that. And I wonder, you know, the answer to that, I think I kind of toy with two options. And one is that you can't really attach free speech celebration to any ideology.

All it is, is it deep down, everybody wants power. And everybody wants to yell shut up. And the right would be just as problematic on this as the left if they were in the position of dominance and power. And I worry about that. I do. And that I think that it's just human nature, by the way. It's human nature because again, like creation. Winning an argument is hard.

Yelling shut up is destruction and that's easy. You know, so I think that it's the little devil on everyone's shoulder. But the other is when you talk about what attracted you to stand-up comedy in George Carlin, like, you probably were a little bit of a counterculture person then. You probably were like, this is what I said in my monologue. Like you probably wanted to rebel against whatever was the majority or the overwhelming culture to some extent. And it's just that now it's flipped, right? And the overwhelming culture is left and woke and they don't need free speech.

And so counterculturism is on the opposite side of where it was when you guys were in college. I'm going to guess. I don't know. No, no, absolutely. Because if you look at what people like Carlin and Higgs were rebelling against, it was a religious right who will have a moral certainty. Of course they have a moral certainty because they're religious. But if you look at the woke or the progressives, whatever you want to call them, they again have the same thing, which is this moral certainty.

So the moment you start pushing back against that, the moment you start mocking them, they get outraged and angry because they're like, because they say, and this is to quote what their words, they are on the right side of history, how dare you criticize, how dare you mock, that is wrong, you are immoral, and therefore we are quite within our rights to destroy you. because that is what you do with somebody who criticizes or goes against or blasphemes a religion.

So a couple more things here before we go to here on the Wilcane show. So first of all, I want to thank you guys. I think you did an awesome job with Sam Harris. We played that here on the Wilcane show. I think you really, in a well-done interview, had him exposed. And Sam Harris is a guy,

and I don't know what you guys have to. say about him but like at times i've thought sam harris noted atheist intellectual thinker hater of donald trump that i would have in the past always said man he's so principled though like it all comes from a place of principle and reason and logic and in that interview i just couldn't see how he can look himself in the mirror and go that made sense you know like yeah i believe in free speech but donald trump represented enough of a threat to humanity that i want to the price of sacrificing free speech is low that was that was great and um I think it really, I think it said more, it said, it said something about more than Sam Harris.

Back to what I was talking about a minute ago, everybody wants to yell shut up in the end. And Sam Harris isn't above anyone else when it comes to his inner demons. Well, I have to say, and we always make this point of when we talk about this issue, we like Sam. We had a great conversation and we don't go out ever to expose people. That's not what we do. We are trying to have a conversation. I was very interested in hearing what he said. And by the way, look, my disagreement with Sam on this, I think,

and our disagreement is that he thinks certain things were much, much, much, much more of a threat than I think. And therefore, the lengths to which I'm prepared to go are different. For him, he saw COVID as an existential threat. He saw Donald Trump as a, you know, I think he called them Sue Generis, which means one of a kind. He's a one of a kind threat to America. Well, like, you know, this is the point I always make about the progressive left. It's like they don't mean that when they call people Nazis, they don't mean it.

Because if the Nazis were coming to power, you would actually rise up against it. They don't, right? But what Sam, I think, has in his head is like Donald Trump is that bad that you have to, quote, rise up against it. And therefore, you know, what may be justified in one situation may not be in another. I really disagree with that. my thing with Sam was I didn't like the way people jumped on him because for me Sam is someone who has a body of work and he's been a really influential think and a powerful thinker for a long time I don't agree with him on a couple of things now but I you know we

still we had Sam on the show after that we had a great conversation about something else so we try not to we try not to overreact to people's one-off comments let's take a quick break but continue this best of edition of Wilcane country with the co-hosts of Trigonometry. Welcome back to a best-of edition of Will Kane country on this Thanksgiving holiday. We're joined still by the co-host of Trigonometry, Francis Foster, and Constantine Kisson. Well, I don't think it's one-off, by the way, because he's kind of had it on other conversations and other podcasts and continue to stand by this position. And I don't think you should have to apologize. I appreciate that you're friendly with Sam and that you continue to have these interesting

conversations. And I didn't mean to suggest you were in some CNN and gotcha type moments. You weren't. And that's why I applaud you guys in the in the conversation that you had. You shouldn't have to apologize, though, for exposing is the word that I chose to use, right? That's what a good interview does is it peels back layers and finds the way people think. And you did that. And I do think, I don't know Sam, but I've appreciated his work throughout time. But I think that was very, I think that revealed a lot about where his mind is. And the extent to which you're faithful to your principles given current circumstances. And that's the whole thing about a principle. It's not a principle if it's only applicable in 90% of the occasions. And so I would love you to do the same thing

with Mark Cuban. I don't know if you have a good relationship with Mark. I've tried, but Mark doesn't want to come on. I don't know. Have you guys seen Mark lately where he's like, okay, can we just all agree that the E and DEI shouldn't mean a quality of outcome? It should mean a quality of opportunities. And I'm like, Mark, it's not a semantic game. We're not playing propaganda here. That's not a bug of DEI. That's the feature of DEI. Well, I think, you know, what we always try and do with our show is have good faith conversations.

And we would love to have Mark Cuban on just as much as we would like to have people on from the right, the center, the left, the progressive left. Because it's only by sitting down, looking the other person in the eye, having a good faith conversation, can you actually hope to move forward? Because it's only by exposing and testing your ideas, do you actually realize and understand if your ideas are actually good ones? We all think dumb things, we all think stupid things, we all have ignorance, we are all fallible, we are all human. And what's really important is we actually sit down and converse and share because it's only by that can we learn. And the problem where we have of our society is we're placed in these echo chambers.

so all of our ideas, right and left, we don't get them tested in the way that we should be, which is why we love having conversations with Sam, and it's why, Mark, if you're watching, we'd love to have you on, mate. There you go. You don't get a more British invitation than that. We even make you a cup of tea.

I doubt he's watching, so I'm afraid that pitch might have fallen on deaf ears. We both live in Dallas, so I'll let him know after you come on the Wilcane show, which he never will, to go on trigonometry. No, but it would be interesting to talk to him because I think, like, I know other people in his position who saw the light on October 7th

and started to actually investigate the things that they'd been turning a blind eye to because they had to go, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, how did that happen? Because this thing, like, I went to Harvard and then there's people at Harvard who have no problem with Jewish students being chased off campus or whatever, right? Right? Like something's going on and then they go and educate themselves where with Mark it sort of feels like just no, I don't mean this is like an offensive thing to him.

But I just don't think he's done the reading to really understand what he's talking about on these issues to do with DEI. You co-opted woke language there, Constantine. Do the work. What was that? I didn't say do the work. I said do the reading. Do the work means you have to like pretend to believe stuff you don't believe. What I mean is you have to go and educate yourself about the issue, which I just don't think he's done. And that's why I'd love to talk to him about it. Because as Francis said, who knows?

I mean, I think I'd rule that out as a possibility, but it's so as possible that he might have lots of things to say that actually change my mind. I mean, it might be possible. I haven't heard them yet. That's why it would be a great conversation. That's why we love talking to people. You know, to bring this full circle then, you know, we talked about. the future of society and younger generations. Have you guys noticed this?

I feel like, and Francis, you brought up a minute ago, the increasing sort of tailorization of social media. And I'll be honest, I so appreciative of Vex that it's one, our one free speech outlet. But I do feel like it is through the algorithm,

maybe through four you, like it's not two realities we live in anymore. It's not a left and a ride or a woke and a conservative. And it's hundreds. It's thousands. and it kind of like the I feel like my experience is it pours you deeper down in the rabbit hole of all these subcultures that maybe this speaks to the future of young men maybe it speaks to the future of what happens in a if we if we fracture off into revolution

but I don't know I just feel like increasingly and it is currency is outraged by the way it's it's not two realities it's not CNN and Fox it's hundreds of realities we're all living in well this is the challenge and as well language is changing in front of our eyes. So the words racist no longer mean what they used to, and people have commented on that. And obviously, that's very worrying. But then how can you have a conversation with someone

who you disagree with if the language that you use and the words that you use have completely different meanings? You're never going to be able to agree if you're basically talking a different language. And that's very worrying as well when someone goes, well, I think this person is a fascist. or why do you think they're a fascist and they may say something to you

and you go, well, that has nothing to do with the political ideology of fascism. You're simply saying that you find this person highly disagreeable and obnoxious and that might be true but that doesn't mean they're a fascist. And they say, no, no, that is my version. That's what I believe fascism to be.

And you just end up sitting there and you're going, have I gone insane? And if that's true, then how can we talk about, anything. Yeah. Well, I'm going to end by paying you guys as a compliment. You told me what your vision of the show is and that you want to have these conversations in goodwill where we can have exchange of ideas and there's growth. And I want to say, I would hope to have the same type of vision here on the Will Can show. It's harder, by the way, because people have

a natural aversion to the brand of Fox, but to have people on that disagree and there is a place to learn and when even, you know, not that it has to be like this Hegelian dialect, winner, loser, zero-sum game. But, you know, I used to be on ESPN. And Max Kellerman, who I disagreed with on everything, said, this is what I love about debate. I either win or I learn something. So it's pretty good outcomes either way. But I appreciate your interest and your execution and having conversations with goodwill of all types of people. And I think everybody should check out Trigonometry. I'm really happy to have you guys on the show today. Thank you both so much. Thanks for having us. It's been a pleasure. By the way,

that intention on your part really shines through and in the conversation that we've had. So it's great that you're doing that. Yeah, and Mark, I know you're watching, mate. Come on. Come on. He lives here in Dallas. I'm just going to walk over afterwards.

I'll get past the guards. Don't worry about it. And I'll make a personal pitch for you guys at Trigonometry. Well, I don't know what your relationship is. Would that put him off potentially? Knowing our relationship? Yeah, would that put him off rather than help him get on the show? it's a good question we've had some nice exchanges by email that's how he

communicate so if you want to hit him up you got to hit him up through email but we've had some nice exchanges um i'm a dallas mavericks fan but who knows what somebody thinks down deep about someone so i don't know if it'll help or hurt um but best of luck guys thank you so much cheers thanks well that is cool that's going to do it for us today thanks to francis Foster and Constantine kissing of Trigonometry. We hope you have a happy Thanksgiving. Listen ad-free with a Fox News podcast plus subscription on Apple Podcasts, and Amazon Prime members. You can listen to this show, Add Free, on the Amazon Music app.