Will Cain Country - Gaza, Fallujah, and Berlin: A Medal of Honor Recipient on Urban Warfare

Episode Date: October 16, 2023

Today, Will sits down with the first, and only living recipient of the Medal of Honor for service during the Iraq War, Former U.S. Army Staff Sgt. David Bellavia. Will and David delve deep into the harrowing realities of urban warfare and close combat. From the streets of Fallujah to the imminent challenges in Gaza, David Bellavia shows firsthand what soldiers might face as Israel prepares to launch a ground invasion into Gaza. Plus, he shares insight into the current state of the United States military and whether or not the U.S. may eventually get involved.   Tell Will what you thought about this podcast by emailing [e-mail]   Follow Will on Twitter: @WillCain Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Door-to-door urban conflict, what the IDF may soon encounter in Gaza with a man who won the American Medal of Honor for Urban Warfare in Fallujah, David Belavilla. It's the Will Kane podcast on Fox News podcast. What's up? to Monday. As always, I hope you will download rate and review this podcast wherever you get your audio entertainment at Apple, Spotify, or at Fox News podcast. You can watch the Will Kane podcast on YouTube and follow me on X at Will Kane. A lot of great feedback last week for the coverage we had for the war in Israel. The debate we had between Dave Smith and Ben Dominic, our deep dive conversation

with Heritage's Robert Greenway and my 10 takeaways at that stage. of this war. I hope you will share this podcast with your friend, including this episode here today, which I believe you will not just come away from with an understanding of what's happening literally on the ground in current events in Gaza, not just come away from it with an understanding of urban warfare, but you'll come away from it with an understanding of a warrior and how it applies to being a citizen of America and what it reveals deep inside about all of us and humanity, I think you're going to really not just appreciate, but find this wisdom insightful with David Belovia, and I hope you will take the time to share it with more Americans.

David Belavia was in Army Infantry in 2004 on his 29th birthday as a member of Company A Task Force 2-2 First Infantry Division. Belovia's platoon was assigned during Operation Phantom Fury to clear a block of 12 buildings from which insurgents in Fallujah, Iraq, were firing on American forces. I'm going to read from his Wikipedia pages you understand exactly what this man did for the United States of America. The platoon began, it reads, began a searching house to house. At the 10th house, Belovia fatally shot an insurgent preparing to load a rocket-propelled grenade. A second insurgent fired at him, and Belovia wounded him in the shoulder. When Staff Sergeant Belovia entered a bedroom, the wounded insurgent followed, forcing Belavia to kill him. When another insurgent began firing from upstairs, Belavia returned fire and killed him. A fourth insurgent then jumped out

of a closet in the bedroom, yelling and firing his weapon as he leaped over a bed to try and reach Belavia. The insurgent tripped, and Belavia wounded him. Belivia then chased the insurgent when he ran upstairs, following the wounded insurgent's bloody footprints to a room on the left and threw in a fragmentation grenade. Upon entering the room, Belavia discovered it was filled with propane tanks and plastic explosives. He did not fire his weapon for fear of setting off an explosion and instead then engaged in hand-to-hand combat with the insurgent, which led to Belavia killing him by stabbing him in the collarbone. That incident was documented. in a November 22nd, 2004, Time Magazine cover story into the hot zone by journalist Michael Ware.

On June 7, 2019, Belovia's Silver Star, which he earned for that battle, was upgraded to the Medal of Honor. He was presented the Medal of Honor by President Donald Trump. David Belovia has written a book, which you should check out for the full story of this hero. It's called Remember the Ramrods, an Army Brotherhood in War and Peace. Check out that by David Belavia. But today he joins us here on the Wilcane podcast to talk not just about his personal story and his takeaway from battle, but also what could soon be expected to take place right there in urban warfare in Gaza with the Israeli military. Here is David Belavilla. More perks, more points, more flights, more of all the things you want in a travel rewards card, and then some. Get your ticket to more with the new BMO ViPorter MasterCard and get up to $2,400 in value in your first 13 months.

Terms and conditions apply. Visit BMO.com slash ViPorter to learn more. Fox News Audio presents Unsolved with James Patterson. Every crime tells a story, but some stories are left unfinished. Somebody knows. Real cases, real people. Listen and follow now at Fox Truecrime.com. Medal of Honor winner, David Belavilla.

I don't know that I've ever, I get to see you in the green room. I get to see you, you know, on the edges of a television show, but you're pretty much dominated by Pete Hegseth. That was until yesterday morning I got to interview you, but it's, you know, I don't know if there's some kind of list behind the scenes. I know I know there's some generals that only want to speak to Pete. I don't know what I've said to offend them. And it may be that, you know, you have done the same thing,

but this is the first time I've really gotten to speak to David Belavia. Well, I will say that I like you much better than Pete, number one. Personally, I respect you more. It is that crazy thing, though, that I don't think we went to West Point and we were doing a thing in the rain. And one of the things that I was really impressed with is just there are so many people that see, like, young folks that want to join the military today with all the chaos and crazy. Those are like patriots on, you know, times 10 because, you know, for us, 9-11 was a huge reason why we all want to. to do it. We're at war. These kids have really no reason to do it other than they love their country and they want to defend our way of life. So that was cool that we got to experience West Point

together. Yeah, you're talking about a year ago. We did the Fourth of July special from West Point. It was my first time to West Point. It was awesome. And I took my sons to that trip because, you know, honestly, David, I didn't grow up in a military family. I mean, my father grew up in the Vietnam era, so he was in the reserves. And everyone from that age had some perspective on the military. but I didn't grow up with service as part of my family history. And I don't want to pass that on in a way. I wanted my sons to see it and I wanted them to consider it. And ultimately, it's their choice.

But I wanted them to see, you know, West Point. I'd love for them to see the Naval Academy. I'd love for them to consider that path in life. And you brought up the, yeah, I know a lot of guys in the age range that you and I are who chose to join after 9-11, but you chose before. Didn't you join in 99? Yes, I did. I was a, yeah, I was really disturbed by what was going on in the Cola Wars.

And I need to get involved. No, I mean, it was, my granddad is still alive. He's 103. And he's a Normandy vet. He's a D-Day plus 29 guys. So he came in with Patton after the D-Day. But he would tell me stories as a little boy, that there was nobility and that I would not really understand what it was to truly be an individual in my community unless I did it with people that were different than me.

Rich kids, poor kids, black kids, white kids, you know, people from all different backgrounds. You know, it's so funny when you get like the, when civilians talk about, you know, all the issues with the military and you're in the military, sometimes you're like, you know, you turn out. news and you're like, what are we talking about? I mean, all the things that people get conflicted with, there's something really special about every cliche we have, but you're a sports guy. Everything we talk about is about war. Who do you want to be in the trench with will? You know, we fight for each other. When you actually get to do that and say that, it's one of the greatest war is hell. And you lose definitely part of your soul when you're, you're, out there, you know, hunting and killing, there's, that's not what we're put on this earth

to do. I will be totally up front and tell you it's a dark, dark spot. However, I never thought I would see love like I saw on a battlefield. And I never thought I'd see really what the human condition is. When you see people sacrifice for each other, it's impossible not to be, you're changed forever, but I think you're changed for the good. I think you're a better person and a better father, a better citizen. You know, I don't want to draw. Analogies are always rough because people say, how dare you compare X to Y.

But what you just described strikes me as eye-opening, but also unsurprising. You know, these are not two direct comparisons. You know, I've spent the last two months of my life, like in Maui several times, dedicating a lot of my time to what was really horrific what happened in Maui, where, you know, I don't know, 120 people are dead. entire town is gone. But David, my takeaway from that story and what I saw was the sense, the deep sense of community. In the end, it was a really negative thing that actually the biggest story for me was a positive. You just saw so many parts of humanity that would not

have been revealed but for the tragedy. And I think for anybody at home, I mean, look, I don't know who we've lost in our lives and everyone listening. My father died at a very, a young age for him and a young age for me. And again, that is a negativity in your life. But what if your eyes are closed, if you don't then in turn see the positivity of the neighbor that shows up with a casserole, of the community that rallies around you. And so when you say you saw love on a battlefield in a way, yeah, I don't spend enough time thinking about that, but I'm also somewhat unsurprised that's one of the things that you've grown to, to, that's, that's something that's, that's a wisdom that was revealed through war.

It was. And now, don't get me wrong, I would have much rather have experienced it, you know, in college, you know what I mean? Or somewhere else. But there is, there is a sense of, I got what my granddad was talking about, and I understood that. And so now I believe there's a responsibility that once you see something and you realize, look, I mean, this is all about this generational fight, Hamas, Hezbollah,

This is about do we want our children and our grandchildren cracking each other in the heads like this? Is there a way that we can exist without the fear and loathing that we currently have today? Muslims, Jews, and Christians have not – there were times when we've been at war based solely on our religion. But there's also been times of peace. And there are regions of this world where people of all different faiths live together and live in peace. And that used to be America. And for some reason, we have folks that almost want to grow this cacophony of just

chaos and hatred. And that to me is the most telling of anything that's come out of this story is just the way the domestic United States and the rest of Europe have embraced Hamas. I mean, Will, I get the sense that if Hamas did not invade Southern India, Israel, that we would have people in our state department today that would say we should have, you know, diplomatic relations with Hamas. But there's nothing wrong with Hamas. That Hamas is not a terrorist group.

That we just don't understand them. You know, I mean, it took this slaughter to finally identify Hezbo, Hamas, and Iran for who they are. Yeah, and I have a lot of opinions on why that is that there's been this moral equivalency or this these blinders pulled over not just college kids that's the that's maybe the most egregious or obvious example that we've seen american college campuses but how that then turns into high levels of american government i have a lot of opinions on how we get to that place but you're right it's been laid bare because of this horrific this horrific slaughter so listen what i you are i've been around you enough to know like smart is smart is like almost an interesting compliment i think

that life or whatever has given you wisdom. And so that's what's really fascinating. But you also have direct experience in talking about what we may soon see go down in Gaza. And everyone has described the coming ground invasion by the Israeli military into Gaza as a horrific hornet's nest of urban warfare underneath the ground, above the ground, apartment buildings. And look, man, And you won the Medal of Honor for, at least in modern America, the biggest corollary we have for urban warfare, and that is Fallujah. So, I mean, I've read some of your story, David, but I would, to the extent that you want to here today, I'm sure you give speeches on it. I know you've written a book on it. You know, like, what did you experience in Fallujah?

What does that tell you about what we're about to experience in Gaza? So we pride ourselves by being the greatest military on Earth because, you know, somehow we've evolved combat. that we can use laser guided bombs and thermal imaging and satellites. And that was supposed to evolve combat in the sense that it wouldn't be grizzly and barbaric and up close. And yet the enemy is going to want to neutralize your technology. And they do that by bringing you into a close quarter environment. And, you know, if you've lived in New York or any large city, real estate's tough. Cities aren't growing wider.

They're growing taller. and the larger the population bases are, everything is dangerous. I mean, if I cleared a wood line and there was a big clearing in the middle of a forest, you're going to say, okay, well, I don't want to stand in the middle of that open area. There's an enemy force out there trying to kill me. In a cityscape, everything is a danger area. Everything, you know, there's no way. Urban fighting is like playing second base with a man on second, with one out.

you're not just thinking about well if the ball's hit to me I'm going to watch that guy on second but I'm going to throw it to first if the ball's hit the shortstop there's a totally different job in all the situation depends on how many men are on base and how many outs there are every person in your squad and your platoon has a job but those jobs are constantly shifting and your focus as a leader is just to keep the kids just constantly keep them focused on what's in front of them Believe it or not, the thinking, you know, people think that, well, in the military, you

don't have to worry about math and you don't have to think, but all you're doing is doing math and thinking, you know, I mean, you've got to make quick decisions. I never thought that I would make eye contact or have a conversation with someone who I had to shoot. I never thought that the wounds that our guys would have in a close quarter battle would be bite marks. or having tufts of hair pulled out. No one goes into a close quarter battle and is uninjured. Everyone gets hurt because you're shooting semi-automatic rifles, automatic rifles, two, three feet away.

You're going to get hit by concrete, by metal. You're going to get grazed. You're going to get burned. To get burned by a muzzle flash is one of the most insane things. I mean, these are things you just don't think are possible. but when they happen it also I mean it's empowering

because now you've gone through the gauntlet you've been through the fire and when you can turn the tide in a close quarter city fight in a house fight in a room fight the littlest things can turn the tide of that fight and it's all psychology and you know

you start showing the guys that are in that room or in that house we're not going to stop until you're done you start to see the confidence is gone you know one of the things that i think unfortunately in america we've become too you know well versed in is is active shooters and and we know that police have changed their doctrine when there's a shooter you go after the shooter as quickly as you can that's the opposite of what you want to do in a street fight uh so if they want you to go after them because there's

85 traps that they want you to start running around and chasing them because they're going to hit you from another building. They're going to bring you into an alleyway. They're going to take your legs out from a bottom floor window. There are so many threats that are out there that everything has to be slow and smooth and communication has to be clear. And the senses that we use in close quarter fighting, you're hearing shot because everyone's been shooting and there's bombs going off and artillery going off. You can't hear anything. Oftentimes, you're super tired and you've opened up, you know, a thousand doors and nothing is there. And so you get complacent. And you start to maybe, you know, right off that Higgins boat, you're ready to go. But if you

went for five miles without seeing a German, you know, you're not as motivated as you were when you first got off the Higgins boat. So your eyes are tired and you're hungry and you're exhausted. the only sense that actually works all the time is your nose. And you can smell people. You can smell a person who's used the bathroom inside of a house. You can smell someone who spent the night without ventilation and they got morning breath or they have body odor. You can smell someone who's bleeding.

And it reminds you that it is almost like you're an animal. you're you're you become almost like a cage dog going after another dog and it's a it's the most base level of combat uh when you're smelling and sensing and acting almost with animal instincts it's super bizarre uh what does someone who's what is someone who's bleeding smell like like copper pennies does that make sense it smells like like pennies like pennies like pennies like pennies like like wet pennies and you know instantly if there's an infection we used to I was you know look at I wasn't born in Mogadishu I'm from Buffalo you know I'm not used to getting shot at rockets and and so I got these kids that are you know young and we we kind of went through things together where we would find like what are they eating I would need anything when you're losing guys that you care about in the nature of the of a close

proximity you'll you need a positive news story you got to keep the morale going and in garrison it's easy to do because there's there's reports and there's you know hey the marines over here did this and the air force is doing that and we're winning and we're doing well keep your head up. But you would find that the morale came from seeing what the enemy was eating. Go into a building or go into an abandoned house and you could tell like, hey, they're, they're nervous. They left in a hurry. They're not eating well. Look what these guys are, you know, this is moldy bread and that's a fresh bite. Or, you know, this person has diarrhea. You know, this guy used the corner of this room and look, look what happened. He's not doing well. They're sick, too.

and they're scared and then you start seeing the drugs and one of the things that we dealt with a lot in urban fighting is you know you're going up against tanks and bombs and Americans and we're well trained and we're not going to stop until you're dead you're going to probably want to get high and now you're dealing with people that are stoked in religious fervor and have their cause but they're also high to Neptune and when you're high out of your on a plethora of things. Mostly, I intervenes, you know, you'd see like a spoon. We would engage people. I remember we had a couple guys that had to be medevac because they got hit by a needle. They got pricked by needles that were in arms of people. They were dragging off the battlefield. So, I mean, like,

that's, again, shock that up for, you know, you're going on antiviral medication in fear that, you know, you get a bloodborne illness from an IV drug. user but you know they tie off their arms they'd have turnicates on their arm and they're getting high and and honestly i could understand that you know i mean you this you're you're facing a division of americans coming after you so but when someone's high and you're shooting them repeatedly they don't act normal so now you have almost like a i i i would argue that the enemy Fallujah was more akin to the imperial Japanese than anything that we had fought, where they would do irrational things. And you think that it's irrational because they're, you know, their religion

or they're hell-bent on death, but they're really out of their mind. And they're not reacting to, you know, you're doing a magazine change on one guy and he's not going down. And it doesn't make sense. They would take our equipment and one of the things we use is for chemical warfare, we have epinephrine and antropine

and if you get hit with a chemical agent, you pop that in your leg, you want to keep your heart going. You know, if you're going through a nerve gas, these guys would hit themselves up with that before we went to war. And, you know, it's just, it's like zombies

at a certain level. But, again, it's a it's it's it's that might have happened in a firefight but they were a mile down the road and you were in a vehicle and you engaged the enemy and you went to the to the the waypoint you that close quarter fighting makes you own everything you do you there's not a guy that just fell over a hill it's not like hollywood where they just tumble away and they're gone you shot that guy he dropped there and now you're dragging him out that's ownership and it makes every you cannot disrespect the enemy when you put someone down it gives you a reverence for who we are as a as warriors but also who the enemy is as well wow I have so many questions to follow up on

that vivid description I think I just have to pick up and remember pick up where you last spoke and remember what you said earlier in the conversation. So, you know, we often hear it in crime. I've heard police officers talk about it. You know, a knife is an incredibly personal weapon that if you see someone who's murdered with a knife versus a gun, you can more easily assume that it was a crime of passion in some of those cases because of the personality involved. And that's basically what you just described to us, right?

That your takeaway from that, it was so many things, but that you personally, whether or not, as you said earlier, you spoke with your enemy, you smelled your enemy. And I know in your case, in some of these instances, how you had to kill your enemy, you came away with reverence because I guess you saw who that, you saw that individual, you saw that person. Yeah, I mean, don't get me wrong. I'm not going to stop fighting the people on the other side because, you know, this is my job, this is my oath, but these soldiers are like my children. So there's a love that causes you to keep pushing forward, your allegiance to the people you're fighting with, your friends, your country, all of those things. But at the same time, there's not, I'm not going to take a trophy. I'm not going to disrespect the enemy because I know how hard they fought. And I respect where they're coming from.

I respect who they are. And if I can constantly keep focused on the fact that it's not going to stop me from taking all of you down. But at the same time, there's that it's a weird respect. and I don't think you are they Nazis are they ISIS we want to compare enemies all the time as to evil what is evil you know World War II fought us that taught us that we didn't have to be evil to fight evil and the thing that I worry about today is we learned that we didn't have to be evil to destroy evil but I fear that we've become an army and a military that doesn't want to destroy evil but I fear that we've become an army and a military that doesn't want to destroy evil. We want to just kind of work with it, negotiate with it. Maybe they don't understand us fully. There is an element at a point where you can't, you can't pacify that. I mean, when you walk into Fallujah had areas where they were beheading people. They lost their electricity. They put those beheaded, they put those heads in freezers. And when they had no electricity, those freezers stopped working. and to realize that Zarkawi chose an area of Fallujah that had a playground and a ferris wheel and little tilt a whirls,

a little amusement park in the middle of Fallujah, and that's where he did the beheadings. That he wanted children desensitized to the violence to be a part of that. That's out of left field. I have no way to even track how a person could think like that. but that's what it was and you've got to pacify that

sometimes by killing it you know to the extent that you want to share with this your story you know I know you want the incident you won the Medal of Honor for is an urban warfare Fallujah and I hope you'll I know you will correct me anything I get wrong

but it was a building that you ended up clearing in a lot of the situations I feel like you described door after door multiple guys multiple levels there's one particular incident that I think it may have happened more than once but you talk about, you know, having to talk to your enemy, smell your enemy. You ended up in a room full of propane tanks, didn't feel comfortable firing your weapons, so you had to resort to your knife.

That's possibly, I guess, as well, what, I mean, the Israeli special operators and defense forces will have to do right here in Gaza. You know, I listen to you tell those stories, David, and I wonder, like, how much of it is, You described instinct. You described, I'm sure some of it is training, right? I mean, soldiers always talk about reverting to their training. So I'm curious how much of it is instinct, how much of it is training, how much it of it is, I don't know, just preparation versus my base animal instinct. You know, all I can think of it is like if you're at a graduation party and you're hanging out with your friends and your kids are playing with other people's kids. and they're running around, and all of a sudden you hear brakes lock up in the front of the house.

You have no idea whose kid, if it is a kid, but you know that the kids are running around and someone just locked their brakes up and you hear those tires screech. Every parent is going to have the exact same instinct and reaction to run and check out what's going on. that feeling of your stomach like bending into knots is a feeling you have when someone you care about is in a bad spot

and when they're hurt and so much of that fight is psychological where they want to leave you in the middle of a room bleeding out knowing that I can't get to you you know the hardest part

about close quarter of combat is we're 100% condition that we leave no one behind and I'm going to get to you as fast as I can. I promised you, I promised your wife, I promised your parents that I'm going to get you out if you're injured. I'm going to keep you alive. I'm going to do whatever I have to do. And you have to almost rewrite that because I can't, I can't get to you in a confined space. I can't get to you until the bullet stop. So you're going to have to be really strong and really brave and really patient because it's going to we're not getting to you until everything's down and it's tough

to deal with and so sometimes you make decisions that aren't the best decisions but they're all emotional and we fight so hard to be disciplined everything in our society is wrong because of emotion i actually hate emotional people with a page i can't stand people that are just all emotional but that is really the only thing that delivers you. We can have the best equipment in the world. We can have the best trained soldiers in the world. But if they're not fighting for a cause, if they're not fighting for each other,

there's absolutely no interest. And that, to me, is our superpower. And that's something that I don't think you'll ever have to worry about China, Russia, or al-Qaeda, because what they're fighting for isn't anywhere near what we fight for, you know? That is fascinating. I just heard a podcast of the day talk about this. David, they said, by the way, I have spent much of my life like you, where I think I over indexed reason over

emotion and did it purposefully, considered it the tool of humanity for progress, and that emotion is what I used to think was led people in the wrong direction. I think I've tried to grow wiser, actually, because I understand the power and purpose and utility. And just, human necessity of emotion it's it's incredibly important but i heard a guy talking about wars and he's like look reason eventually fades away um he was talking about the power of story and mythology and the way it carries a people it can carry a people through oppression it can carry a people through a war it is that why you're talking about right like ultimately this is what i believe about me or my people and this is what i'm here for that sense of purpose and that is not

based upon reason. There is nothing there that is based upon reason. That is all deep emotion, maybe even deeper than emotion. It is like, I don't even know, yeah, religion, but you, you kind of sectioned off a portion of your religious enemy. I mean, look, those guys believe in their ideology, right? But there's something, there's something more. There's a mythology as well that is powerful. Well, again, though, if the basis of your theology is your death, it's not the same as the salvation message. I mean, Christianity is based on saving.

It's based on preserving. It's based on love. And so what I came into war, never going to war, I was training for something I'd never experienced before. And I thought that I was, and I had so much. anger over September 11th. I had so much anger over, you know, I remember like I was in country for like, I don't know, two weeks. And there were these little kids and dad was a scumbag and making bombs and the kids were all kids and the mom was all scared. And, you know, we've got

reporters with us. And so I give these kids crayons and paper. You know, just draw something, be occupied we got to talk to the adults in the room and when we get done processing everything the kids are drawing two planes that are crashing into buildings and I was just like what I mean no concept

of your this is fun this is I'm raising the generation to see you as an adversary no matter what you do for me no matter what you provide for me no matter what you provide for me No matter what kindness you showed to me, you were always going to be an adversary, and I'm for.

You know, that was just a, it's a, we use our Western philosophy against Eastern philosophy, and it's confusing. But I used hate, and I know what hate, I thought I had to fuel myself with hate. So when I would go on a mission and I knew there was going to be action and I knew we were going to get a fight, I would show my soldiers, heading videos. And I would show the soldiers' images of those people jumping off of the towers, that desperation, that this is what we're fighting for. This is who we're fighting. And this is what we're fighting for. And if that doesn't fire you up, then you're in the wrong job. You should have gone to dental school because we're avenging. You know, we talk about preserving the Constitution, protecting America. We're avenging America. And that was a job. I

I never thought I would have in 1999. But here we are, and we're fighting Syrians and Jordanians, and we're running around taking passports off of people from Chechnya and Bosnia, and we find this, we find this guy with a passport from Dearborn, Michigan. And I'm like, you know, you came all the way out here. In a way, I'm grateful that you did. I'm grateful that you did, you know, stay. local, you know. But at the same time, that just, I couldn't imagine that. It was heartbreaking.

And yet, in those moments, you know, hate is like nitrous oxide, where it gets you from point A to point B super fast, and then you blow your engine out, and you can't sustain it. You can't sustain rage. It's where your body can only take so much. And you have to fight for something stronger in that. And so I really believe that my combat experience changed when I started fighting because I love things.

And I love my country and I love my family and I love my friends and I love my army. And my love was going to, and it's so weird to say like, you know, why are you shooting at the enemy? Because I love my way of life and I love my family.

Yeah. And it's, you know, that's awesome. but it it was effective fighting for love was what delivered us i think uh take a quick break to say that you um also as i mean not just with my words but decorated by the president of the united states represent america's biggest badasses dispels my stereotype of drama kids uh pete always talks to me about the fact that you're this so ridiculous community thespian um it's not of it true It's another lie. Really?

Oh, wow. It's part of your image for me, because he has said it so many times. You know, David's like a thespian. No, I've never, no. Listen, it was a minor. I could have been anything. I could have been a botanist minor. It was a theater minor, and it was because I just, I didn't meet.

I didn't know girls at all. They were all these, it was like a club. They all had like, you know, berets on. And whenever I look at some of these guys, you know, like in Hollywood, and I, and I want to explain the behavior. My friends and I would go, well, they were in drama. You remember the drama guys in high school. That's not, no. That's not you?

Okay. Well, shoot. I was always like, well, give the drama guys a little more respect. They win medals of honor. No. Yeah. They sent me to Broadway when I got the Medal of Honor. And I'm walking around like the cast of, you know, kinky boots.

And, you know, I'm like, why am I here? I don't, I'm not one of you. They're all, you know, they're all proud. I'll take that up. I'll take that up with HECSeth. It's not your image. It's not the right brand. Okay, let's go back to, I want to tie us to current events as well. You and I spoke over the weekend.

We talked about the fight in Gaza. And you kind of said, I don't think Fallujah, my experience is the best analogy. But it's the best we have at hand. And you and others have said, look, Grozny. in, it's in Chechnya, right? Groszni, the fight in Chechnya. That's right. And then I've heard others reference

Stalingrad in World War II because it's not just urban, it's rubble, it's been destroyed already by aerial of bombardments, it's full of sniper positions. In this case, in Gaza, it's going to have a civilian population

embedded as well, and it's got a hostage situation embedded as well. So I would load it if you would apply your personal experience, because again, like, what do I know? And most people listening, I don't know anything. I mean, I saw saving private Ryan, you know, so honestly, when I saw, when I read your story, David, and I know you had to kill a man up close and personal,

I think about that scene saving Private Ryan with a knife, you know? And so, by the way, it sounds like you were alone, at least in that part of your battle. And so that's got to be a departure from the tactics of urban warfare. You got to be working in teams. Just tell us, like, way it worked for you guys and the way it will probably work here in Gaza. So any valor award that you're going to see in the military is going to be a breakdown of military intelligence and situational awareness. I don't, you know, you think there's two guys in a house, but they're seven. You don't expect that. And that's usually bad things have happened because someone screwed up.

And maybe it's you, but that's where you get those outnumbered situations, not desired, not doctrinal at all. But, you know, Grosny, we talk about Grosny. there's really three battles at Grosny, right? You got the World War II battle. You got the 90s battle. You got the 2000s battle of Grosny. Right. Our military doctrine of urban fighting is broken into Berlin and Grosny.

And those are two battles that Americans never fought in in World War II. Our experience and our tactics come from the Soviets and the Germans of World War II. If you go to American history, you have Seoul Korea in 51. That was a really bad fight. Communist Chinese in Seoul, Korea. in 51. Way City, Vietnam, and then Mogadishu in 93. So here we are, and we're now talking about the global war and terror. And now you've got stories all over the place, Marines, soldiers, Ramadi, Baghdad, Baku, Mosul, you got special operatives. Everyone has cut their teeth for 20 years

on this stuff. And the one thing everyone is going to tell you is that you have options and you can make decisions on as to what you want to do do you want to go door to door i open up one door i go through it the other thing is that when the civilian population's gone you can get super creative and you can start shooting tank rounds through walls you know a tank round will go through five buildings and when they're all next to each other i don't want to use the front door seals and special operatives love to blow c4 you know on the side and go there do we want to go roof to roof to door to roof and mix it up at the end you just want to keep whoever is inside that house guessing and the problem is is that how many times have you been in your home you live

there or you're familiar with it and you know where everything is and so we think of well i got to go into the front door there's a living room a kitchen a bedroom and i'm just going to walk through however there's a couch that they put right in front of the door and the refrigerator that used to be in the kitchen is now right in the doorway and they took all these jersey barriers and they put them inside the house and they built a bunker in there

and maybe the bunker's in the bathtub and there's a machine gun over a bathtub it's you're always the Victor is designed to be the defender because it's the first time you've ever been in that structure and you don't know where anything is and you know there's no safe spot there so now you take all of that confusion

and you put it in a tunnel if this was 1944 will we'd bring a young man with a flamethrower and it would be game set match tunnel it's over that's why we invented flame throwers were for bunkers and for tunnel systems and Iwo Jima, you know, these stories of guys that just would go in there and just flame everything to a crisp. But we can't do that anymore. So in an effort to be more humane and an effort to be, you know, take the high road, our enemy doesn't care about humanity. It's the very basis of who they are as terrorists. And so we're in a much more difficult situation. Now hostages, I think we've got to get to a real point where at least the IDF is having this conversation. I can't have young people with rifles thinking about anything other than

putting down the threat. And we don't want to hurt anyone, and we certainly don't want civilians to get hurt, and we don't want to hurt our own. But the biggest threat in a confined space is symmetry of fire. The last thing you want to do is shoot your your own people. And the last thing you want to do is shoot each other. But once a person is in a room and everyone's shooting from opposing corners, you've got to have some rules. And the rules are firewalls. Everyone don't get ahead of me on a firewall. We're shooting in this direction. And anything on the other side of that direction is the threat. I can't have you turning because you think you see something around, you know, your shoulder.

so inevitably what happens is people start to reconnaissance by fire they hear something something moves and they shoot at it and that's another you know really unfortunate part about keeping discipline and professionalism is if you have people just popping shots all over the place you know someone's going to get hurt someone's going to get a ricochet but you cannot the hostages if they're alive and there's an opportunity to save them Do everything you can to save innocent people. If there's a civilian and you can save them, do whatever you can do to save those civilians. But if you go into any situation and on the other side of the door, you hesitate a nanosecond. You're in Arlington Cemetery. And not only are you in Arlington, but everyone who saw you get shot in the face is now at a combat effectiveness of negative 70 because they care about you. You're their buddy and you just got shot in the face.

So my job is to constantly motivate young people that I'll do the thinking. You execute. This is the intent. I'll do the thinking. I'll take the responsibility. I'll be the one that goes to talk in a trial. Don't you worry about anything else. All you need to do is move forward and knock down targets.

You can't be thinking about rescuing and you can't be thinking about civilians, unfortunately, because that's the okay corral. And if you're the second one to the trigger, you're done. We're going to step aside here for a moment. Stay tuned. I'm Janice Dean. Join me every Sunday as I focus on stories of hope and people who are truly rays of sunshine in their community and across the world. Listen and follow now at foxnewspodcast.com. That's a clarity of thought that I can only imagine. I have to speak with humility,

not been in the situation that reflects reality. It's a clarity that reflects reality. It's easy for people who sit in the seats like I sit and go, you got to strike this balance, you got to save civilians. And you just described very clearly how, no, there's an objective and a mission and that objective and mission has to be narrowly trained. And if it's not, you have compromised so many things, including other lives. And what it says to me, though, then David, is if there is a hostage rescue operation. It is definitely separate from the invasion force. So that's its objective. Yeah, you have to know your lane. And I'm not a Navy SEAL. I'm not Delta Force. These guys are elite. They have elite training. They have different skill sets. They

have different weapons systems. I know what I do. I'm going to be the best in the world at what I do. And what I do is high intensity. And if you put 200 people in front of me, I'm going to do the best at what I can do. I'm not going to be a, you know, I'm not sneaking down the chimney and stealing someone's cookbook and getting on a helicopter and flying away. I'm not going to be on a bin Laden raid. I'm going to be on a raid with, you know, 55 guys that want to shoot me and my friends. And we're going to do the best we can to bring as many people home and retire as many bad guys. but if you're taking kinetic forces that are high-intensity trained and you're saying, you know, if you find a hostage, do whatever you can to save them,

we're absolutely going to do that. And if we can save civilians, absolutely. We want to save children and women and elderly people. That's who we are. That's we're not murders. We're not Russians. We're not Chinese. We're American fighters.

That's what we do. But you can't anticipate that that's, you can't think of anything. anything other than survivability. It's all about survivability. And unfortunately, survivability means that the other side shooting at you doesn't survive. I can't, you know,

pick pinpoint shots. And in a tunnel system that you could barely stand up in, I mean, you're grazing fire. You want to shoot below the knee, right? Grazing fire means that I'm taking you out

at your leg and down because I just want, you on the ground. I'll worry about you once you're on the ground, but I need to get you off your feet because something's behind you, and I want to get those guys off their feet. So I'm just going to put machine gun fire from your knee down, and I want everyone running to stop running, and then we'll worry about Z pattern and, you know, taking them out. And that's what you do in confined spaces. And it's brutal, and it's, again, I, you know, maybe I should have gone to seminary. because I would have felt more comfortable in that line of work.

But I had a purpose on that battlefield, and my friends had a purpose. And America is safer and better because now a new generation of people, just like me and my friends, are out there willing to make themselves uncomfortable so that people can be safe and secure. And I think that's the most beautiful thing anyone could do for us. whether it's law enforcement or firefighters or or soldiers and Marines, they're out there and they're going to hook and jab so we don't have to. Hey, Dave, you talked about the fact that we don't use a flamethrower anymore. I think that's almost a symbolic.

It's not a symbolic point you're making because it has to do with the tunnels. But I do think it can serve symbolically as well. Because you also talked about, you know, modern politicians, this administration, modern warfare, that it is all compromised, that it's all trying to strike, I guess, maybe too many balances, and that gets in the way of actually accomplishing an objective. I'm kind of curious about your overarching point of like, do you think we've gotten, look, we're more advanced in war. We're probably more professional as war fighters, but we haven't clearly won a lot of wars either. So like, you talk about all these compromises and balances. Have we gotten better in fighting war? No. No. And it's sad because we probably have the best

professionalism in our military than we've ever had before. And I go around and talk to soldiers and Marines every day. And it breaks my heart to say that they're better than I was, but they are. They're smarter than I was. They could do more tasks simultaneously than I could. They have more training time. They have more access to education than I ever did. They're better professional soldiers than I was and their leaders are all folks that want to

we made a mistake when we got opportunity we wanted there's it all comes down to having a chip on our shoulder and you had a four star general that had all this respect and everyone everywhere he goes everyone I mean a four star general is like

you know Taylor Swift they don't they don't do anything they have an entourage they People answer their phone. They clean their house. They're a four-star general. That is the elite in the military. And then that four-star general goes to a cocktail party in Georgetown.

And they're like, excuse me, could you get me a Diet Coke? It's like, who the hell are you? You make millions of dollars. I'm a four-star general. Like, you show respect. I'm Douglas MacArthur. You're just some turd. You're not, you don't know what I've done for America.

You don't have the ability to be a four-star general. So. we decided the only way to get the respect of the elite is to go and take our four-star generals and take our captains and majors and send them to Princeton, get the Harvard education. And Harvard and Princeton, they all wanted to say, hey, we've got tons of our graduates in the war. We understand that. We're very diverse. We love America too.

And so now all these generals come out of, you know, studying Ibsen. and Bertold Breck, and now we're like, hey, we're going to send an artillery barrage, and they're quoting, you know, a sonnet from Shakespeare, I don't really want you well-rounded. I want you a subject matter expert at what you do. Those Princeton, in order to be respected by academia, our officer corps became academia. And now we're like, oh, we've got transgender people running around. And now, you know, every chaplain is a Wiccan. And, you know, you want to do magic mushrooms on your off time, whatever it is. We're trying too hard to get respect to get respect from a cohort of people that have disdain for us.

Wow. These people don't like us. They don't understand us. They've never been in a bad day, let alone. Their idea of confrontation is writing Twitter to say that Delta Airlines gave them cold chicken like that's you know what i mean they're in their e vs and they're you know they they tell stories of a conflict of their time as a barista and they're talking to people that have been multiply shot by al-Qaeda and and rather than us taking the high road and say no shut up and sit

down jack nicholson and a few good men that famous speech we're not we don't have those generals anymore. Those generals got the hell out and now they're working, you know, and making money consulting. The people, if you are in the army today and you've got 30 plus years, you need to be in the army. And that should never be the answer. The answer should be that you have a purpose and that you're leading men and women and you're making men and women better every day and your leadership is bringing the standard higher. Our standard's not there. And it's political because we've a lot,

I'm not pissed off about what happened to the army. I'm pissed off that the army allowed it to happen. That's what I'm upset about, that we allowed this cancer to grow is evidence that we never diagnosed what the problem was. And so people are like, are you ready to fight China? I could fight China by throwing a dart at a rodeo.

Take me to the Houston rodeo, and I'll find people in the crowd and give them training, and we could fight anyone in the world. It needs to be the military. It needs to be the people actually hired to do the job, not people that, you know, are here to find themselves. I didn't join, you know, like their kung fu walking the earth. I wanted to see what I could do. Join the Peace Corps to see who you are. We're here to defend and to fight, and we don't have that mentality.

But I'm telling you we can fix it. We're going to fix it. What took me so long to have you on this show? I just all I can think of is I don't know why we haven't spoken before in long form. Pete Hegseth always goes back to that bastard, Heg Seth. Okay. You said we can fix it. I'm not going to forget that you said that.

I want you to fit that into one of the three questions. I want to ask you before we go our separate ways here today. and they're all going to tie into things that we talked about earlier. So as we kind of broadened it, I'm going to start narrowing it back down. So the broadest question first, it will tie into, we can fix it. We start out talking about my sons and you and I meeting at West Point and so forth. Would you send your sons to West Point? No, I would not.

But that's just because I don't want my sons to be officers. At West Point, I think, is a great institution. I just don't I want my I want my children all my children will serve the country if they do it in uniform I'd be overwhelmed and proud but the idea is that we have to serve America first how you decide to serve America is it's totally your call I hope you do it in uniform and I hope you do it as an enlisted because enlisted is truly the best way

I don't want to be judged by what I did in combat. I want to be judged by what my subordinates do in society. And my soldiers are outstanding citizens and they're amazing husbands and their great fathers. And they're out there employing people. And they're out there helping people. And they're making a difference. They're making America better by their presence. And so we need to be judged by what our subordinates do. We have to be eclipsed as leaders. That's the ultimate compliment is to be replaced. And in the enlisted ranks, I found that that was the most fulfilling way to do it. But fit that into how we fix it? Because, you know, I said, I wanted you to bury that in.

How do you fix the American military? We got to do a good old-fashioned goose pile on the ignorant and weak. And right now, I think the left is empowered. The left is empowered through academia. I think the left is empowered through the very tactics that they allege to be against. The bullying techniques. And so So what we have to do is just truly outnumber them. And, you know, occasionally, you know, you think you're the only person. You put the campaign sign out and everyone ripped your campaign sign up. Well, don't put the campaign sign out, but make sure your candidate wins.

Right. You know what I mean? Like, like the way that you're going to fix the military is by sucking it up and becoming an E1 private and having every officer talk to you about gender awareness weekend. and then making the rank of not-commissioned officer and say, you know what, I'm never doing that. And hey, LT, you're 22, and you listen to your NCOs. You see Captain America over there telling everyone about gender studies and reminding him that America is failed, that America can change, and America should be a better nation? Don't be that captain.

And you change institutions from the ground up, and you do it by having more. more decent, honorable people than you have knuckleheads. I don't need to teach diversity and you know what inclusion is? Inclusion is leadership. And diversity is the law. If a black person applies for a job and is qualified and I say no, I get sued by the federal and state government. That's the law. And inclusion means you're a really bad leader if you're not including people. So I don't need your your government anything. I treat people dignity and respect in the military, not because I want to get promoted. I do because I want to win wars because I want people under me that acknowledge that I'm a good and decent leader

and I'm honest and I have integrity. And we beat the left because we, there's more of us than them. And we just have to be empowered to take our institutions back. And it's not a violent thing. You know what I love about your prescription for the military? It can be applied to America. Your prescription to enlist and rise to the level of an NCO who rejects the political leadership above him. It reflects something that I see something more. A lot of people compromised, you know, sometimes based upon weakness and want to join the group, sometimes based upon any ideology, but often because of their own personal ambition. And I wouldn't, I wouldn't be surprised at a lot of those LTs or captains agree with you. But they go along in service of their own ambition to rise up to the level of general or whatever it may be, where as an enlisted, you're going to rise to an NCO. That's as high as it's going to be.

But you're empowered to make a change from that level. And what I'm getting at is I think that exists in society as well. If you pursue your own ambition to the almighty dollar, you're going to compromise a lot. You're going to compromise a lot. You want to be a captain of industry? You will be compromised? It's a fact. You think all these CEOs and American corporations believe this crap?

No, they don't. They believe in their own ambition, and they're doing the realist of what they have to do. So choose a different path, young man. Choose a different path where you don't have to compromise, but you can still be a leader and still effectuate change. It's so funny, but I see this on the right wing as well. I went to an event where Anheiser Bush was like paying for all this stuff for wounded warriors. And the Anheiser Bush people got on the stage, and everyone's like, you suck! You know, like, you guys are horrible. You put a transgender. And I thought to myself, before there was the situation with Bud Light and the commercial, Anheuser-Busch was taking care of wounded warriors. They were making sure that everything about

their product was America, America, America. And so they get hijacked by whatever reason they decided to run that ad. But now you're not even allowing redemption. There's no redemption arc. And, you know, why does the radical left embrace Hamas? Because ultimately, they have the same goals in life. And the goals are that you, once you error, according to us, you must be destroyed. And, you know, the Christianity arc is you screwed up, but you're still able to be forgiven and you can still repent and have your road to Damascus moment. None of those things exist in a culture and a society that says your sin, your life is over, and the right wing does it as well. When I was in the military, we would fight about our sports teams. We knew we cancel each other's vote out.

We would talk about, I mean, debates over the Confederate flag. A guy has a Confederate flag. He's from the South. Black guy from Chicago was like, what are you doing? You're a racist. You're a redneck. You're, you know, you're this, you're that. We're going at it. All of a sudden, the radio chatter, someone's got hit with an IED. That fight over the Confederate flag turns into people punting on their gear, going into a four-hour firefight, cleaning weapons, and we go right back into it.

And now it comes down to, how could we find consensus here? Do you need to put a flag out there that's going to upset people? now do you need to play your music so loud that it upsets people we're finding consensus out of necessity because we have to live together we have to respect each other we have to fight together now in no time in the fight over the Confederate flag or the music or the language or the words that were said did anyone talk about not fighting for each other that was a that was an automatic given so in the civilian world I have to like you before I trust you. I go on a date and I want to know that this person's a quality person. I have to earn

their trust. I have to, you know, I like them. I get their trust and then I love them. And the military, everything is reversed. I don't even like you. I don't even have to like you, but I trust you. I trust you. And because of that trust, I know I have to depend on you and I know you'll never betray me. Everything else after that is a giant cherry on the Sunday. We have to get back to that trust with each other as citizens. And that starts with realizing we're in this against the world. And there's a lot of people that want to kill us. And whether you want to be at war, I don't want to go to war. I don't want your kids to go to war or my kids to go to war. But if an enemy is saying that they're at war with you, they're at war with you. You either

win the war or you ignore the war. But you don't have license to run around and talk about barbarians and savages if you don't want to fight it. Second question, as we narrow the scope down, you said there are two main battles, Berlin and Grozny, that people study to come away with their lessons and plans for urban warfare. What is the main lesson from those two battles that you applied and that will be applied by the IDF? So asymmetrical fighting and basically understanding what terrain is. You know, we're traditionally fighting, you know,

I took the hilltop, and I took the hilltop and I used the hilltop and I put my indirect fire on the hilltop. There is no hilltop. If you're not standing on a building, you don't own that building. So we're talking about ways that we have to move the enemy

off the area and you do that by a concentrated force of combined arms. Every row, that is an actual road in Gaza will be IED. You can't use those roads. You've got to make your own roads. So here's the deal.

There's going to be a Gaza rescue plan that is going to rebuild Gaza. Just like in Ukraine, everything that you want to fight in in the urban terrain is going to have to be rebuilt. So you want to move people out and you've got to move them by forcing the fight into certain sections of the area. that you can isolate the civilian population from the true believers. Now, if it's the tunnel system, that's not bad. Separate innocent people from the bad guys. Once you've isolated the bad guys, fix the bad guys, and try to take out as many as you can conventionally,

because ultimately you're going to have to go in there one by one. But it's not about occupying terrain. It's not about holding terrain. It's about choking off, cutting off. And it's a war of attrition. it's a war of attrition last question david and this is the tidescope but take us back to the top may have been your first answer to me today you said something that i remember right off the bat you said war is hell and you lose a part of your soul we then transition to talking about what

you gained we talked about the witnessing of love we talked about what you know about humanity that i don't know we talked about what you've seen we've talked about tactics and what you did and earned you the Medal of Honor. But I have to return to that. What did you lose? What part of your soul did you lose? I lost the sense that my imagination of what the worst possible circumstance could be. There was a sense of innocence that, well, a helper is going to come, you know.

And if I call 911, other people will come and they'll shuffle me off and they'll handle the cleanup. up they'll handle the mess and i don't ever have to worry about what things look and smell and taste like uh and now i realize that you know we really have to do that for each other and there's really no escaping it because i don't i don't think i understood shame until i understood that there's a there's a need to be the person you say you are You know, it's all great to talk to talk, and I can make you think I'm the greatest person in the world. But only people that know what is actually required of us as individuals, and I don't mean this as combat veterans. I mean this as men and women, adults.

Adults are the people that evolve to the point where they know it's a fun party, but someone's got to clean up after it. And it's a fun party, but someone's got to buy the food and prepare the food. those realities to everything that we have in life, the combat experience is if you want to be a part of a solution, if you want to be part of a generational fight, if you want to be a part of enjoying your liberty, there are things you're going to have to do in that struggle. And once you go through it, you are going to be forever changed in the sense that nothing is, you can't sit out any fight. You can't sit out any struggle. You know, why are so many veterans involved in politics? Because now they're active. They've got skin in the game.

And the more people, and this is what happened in World War II. This is why you had 1948. So many veterans were in Congress. You know, well, you drafted all these people. They didn't talk about their combat experience, not because they were living in a Victorian age. They didn't talk about their comment experience because everyone experienced it. There was no point. Why should I talk to you on the border?

bus about Iwo Jima, you were probably Guadal or you were probably at the bulge or you fought North Africa. Everyone had consequence to action. Everyone understood what service was. And once you go through that, you're like, I can't be the person on the sidelines focused on the Buffalo Bills all year round. There's got to be more to life. And that sucks because there's a lot of people that love life playing pickleball and drinking lattes and worrying about when the next PS6 comes out. And I think there's times that we'd like to do that too. But the combat experience, I think service in general, it focuses you that you are now compelled and rooted that this America is fragile. And what we have is we've got a lot of people manipulating

democracy in the name of democracy and you know the idea that somehow if you disagree with me if you have discourse that is is uncomfortable to me that I have to use the very powers and the very institutions we have to protect our liberty to limit your opposition to my point of view this is dangerous and and it's it's on American and so now what are we supposed to do if we stand up and say, I think you're lying about this, or I don't trust you as an institution, you might be accused of being an insurrectionist, or you might be accused of being a radical. And if you want to get together with a bunch of your veterans and shoot guns in the state of New York and raise money for charity, you might be a militia.

That sucks. But you do it anyway, because you know what right is. And once you've seen people die for what right is, for what the ethical, honorable thing to do, is, you can never, ever deviate from that. It's almost like saying you're a born again Christian. The moment you say you're a Christian, everyone wants to question every time you use profanity. I thought you were a Christian. Like, dude, you've got like seven X wives and you do drugs. I'm the one that says I'm a Christian. Now you get to judge me, right? You get a target on your head. And that target is accountability. And that part is forever changed.

and your innocence is gone. And you know what people are capable of. And it makes you sick, but it also empowers you to go make a difference. Man, I was going to say something about the Dallas Cowboys beating the Buffalo Bills twice in the 90s, and that's our golden era. You're in my age group. But then you went ahead and said,

I can't think about sports all year around and helping this position. Daryl Johnson's from Buffalo. Is that right? Now he lives in Dallas and he played for America's team. That's true. But listen, I'll tell you, That got me ready for war, too. Don't get me wrong.

You know what I said I tell you, I got out of the Army and I got to meet the Jones family. Oh, really? And I was so prepared to believe that the Jones family were going to be like communists. I was hoping that they take me aside and be like, you know, Al-Qaeda has a point of view, too. You know, I wanted, I wanted them to be like evil and just horrible human beings. And I was so disgusted to find out that they are the most patriotic, provost. veteran, like, decent, what a wonderful group of people. And you had to stop hating them for beating you twice in the 90s in the Super Bowl. The Dallas Cowboys organization is a class group and they're

great Americans. They really are. So are you, man. The bills are awesome too. And you're in a good position with your quarterback. But I just wanted in on a light note, but I do want to say how much I respect you. I think it goes without saying and how much I appreciate what you've done for this country, which you continue to do for this country. The wisdom you shared with us today, I think is something that everyone needs to hear. And I hope that they do. and they share this far and wide. And I really appreciate you doing that for a better part of an hour today. I hope to talk to you again.

All right. Look forward to it. Take care, David. Bye. There you go. I hope you enjoyed that conversation with David Belvia again. Check out his book. Remember the Ramrods, an Army Brotherhood, in War and Peace.

And I hope you share this conversation far and wide. I'll see you again next time. Listen to ad free with a Fox News Podcast plus subscription on Apple Podcast. and Amazon Prime members, you can listen to this show ad-free on the Amazon Music Act. Listen to the all-new Brett Bear podcast featuring Common Ground, in-depth talks with lawmakers from opposite sides of the aisle, along with all your Brett Bear favorites like his All-Star panel and much more. Available now at Fox News Podcasts.com or wherever you get your podcasts.