Will Cain Country - Is Deion Sanders The Best Choice To Coach The Dallas Cowboys?

Episode Date: January 17, 2025

On this edition of The Will Cain Show’s Friday sports episode, Will sits down with OutKick's Dan Dakich to discuss why people are oddly blaming Charles Barkley and Shaquille O'Neal for low NBA ratings, why Notre Dame is 'America's Team' ahead of the College Football National Championship Game, and why Deion Sanders may actually be a perfect, yet unconventional pick to head coach the Dallas Cowboys.    Tell Will what you thought about this podcast by emailing [e-mail]   Subscribe to The Will Cain Show on YouTube here: Watch The Will Cain Show!   Follow Will on Twitter: @WillCain Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Book club on Monday. Gym on Tuesday. Date night on Wednesday. Out on the town on Thursday. Quiet night in on Friday. It's good to have a routine. And it's good for your eyes too. Because with regular comprehensive eye exams at Specsavers,

you'll know just how healthy they are. Visit Spexsavers.cavers.cai to book your next eye exam. Eye exams provided by independent optometrists. The divisional round of the NFL playoffs, perhaps the best weekend in sports. We'll break down those games, plus the national championship game between Ohio State and Notre Dame with Dan Dockage. It's the Will Kane Show, normally streaming live every Monday through Thursday at 12 o'clock Eastern time. at Fox News YouTube, Fox News Facebook, and Fox News.com, but always available to subscribe at Apple or on Spotify. This is a cane on sports edition of the Will Kane Show, which you get every

Friday by subscribing on Spotify or Apple. We have a massive weekend of sports to serve as lead off before the inauguration of Donald Trump as president of the United States and the launch of the Will Kane show at 4 o'clock Eastern time on the Fox News channel. So let's relax. I know I need a breather. I need to get my mind right. That's going to be in part by watching my son play a couple of soccer games and NFL and college football, playoffs and national championship. Let's break it down today with the host of don't at me on outkick.com. It's Dan Dockich. Dan Dockich of Don't At Me with Dan Dockich, which has had some pretty big time bookings lately, Dockich. Every time I look up, you've got, I mean it, Reese Davis, John Gruden.

I mean, you are deep in your contact list on your iPhone there. We've had some of your people. We've had Vivek Ramoswamy. We've had Ted Cruz. Peter Ducey made an appearance. Charles Barkley. Look at us over here. Just our little streaming.

show in the mornings 9 to 11. You can catch it on Outkick.com. Hey, you know, you and I come from that world, so we have contacts over there. We're friends with some of those people. We do have their numbers. We can text them. I haven't done it much, Doc Hitch.

And maybe you and I are different, but not really. You're pretty political. You certainly have your hot takes. And you certainly have said probably more than me about ESPN. So how does it go like, Looking Herb Street and Davis, Gruden's out, but the ESPN guys. You know, it's never a problem.

I've not had one problem. And we are vocal about, you know, the DEI and all the stuff that ESPN does. And I love the ESPN. I don't bad mouth anybody there. I just talk about the issues that they present. They put my kids through college. I had a 10-year blast. They're getting to know guys like you or getting to know Reese.

But, you know, McAfee just texts me the other day, wants me to be his college basketball analyst. Really? I don't know if I can do it. Yeah, my show's on the same time. I told him, look, I can tape it every day or whatever day you want between 11 and 12. It really is interesting.

Brad Nestler was on today, and Brad and I both worked at ESPN. I actually was with Brad. Last show he did. We drank a doer's in the back seat of a car that was driving us home from a game. He goes, this is my last show, bud. So, you know, you know this.

people that, you know, take out of the politics and where ESPN has gone with all of that. But when you were at ESPN and I was at ESPN, people were great. And I made a lot of lifetime friendships and none of them have problems coming on. That's great. I feel the same way. I actually feel very, very fond about my time at ESPN. It doesn't insulate one from criticism to your point. Like, I'm going to criticize you where I think you make a wrong step.

But I like so many people that I worked with at ESPN. and I'm glad they're coming on don't at me. I'm going to have to see if I can get. You know, I've never, I know Charles a little bit, and I've never invited him on one of my shows, in part because, I don't know, I didn't ever want to make the relationship transactional, but it's time.

I would love for Charles to come on my new 4 o'clock show on Fox News Channel. I'm a big fan of Barkley. I'll get you his number. I have it. I'll send it to you right after the show. I got it. Charles is one of those guys, I've never, I met him.

We're the same age. He was at the Olympics in 1984 trials, which was in Bloomington and I was a player in 1984, not good enough to try out for the Olympics. So I met him once there. He was roommates with one of my teammates, Steve Alford. But I've never met him, but I swear to God, when you have him on a show or I text with him, it's like we're old friends. And he's just that guy.

He is the easiest guy to have on a show. Great stories. You want to get real serious. You want to get political? He'll go there if you'd like. you want to talk sports he'll go there it's fascinating though and I don't know how much you want to get into this

he you know he's being blamed awful announcing and other players they're blaming Charles and Shaq for low ratings because they're negative towards the NBA and he has a lot to say about that he's a he's a he's a great dude in my world that's a dumb take I saw that take

that you can't have your marquee show criticizing your property otherwise at least low ratings people don't tune out the NBA because Charles Barclay and Shaq are mad about what they're seeing. They're tuning it out if they're mad about what they're seeing or not even mad. People don't tune out because they're mad. They tune out when they're bored.

And for that matter, Charles and Shaq are never boring. No, you know, when I first started doing games, I'd never done a game until I did one on ESPN. And they're like, look, there are some announcers where it means it's a big game. No, you're looking live, Brett Musburger, right? Jim Nance does a game. It feels like a big game, that kind of thing. But people watch for the game.

Sure, the halftime's good and you want to see it or sure, you know, an announcer you kind of like Dick Vitel, you liked him, you didn't like him, whatever. But people watch for the game. And to your point, you use the word bored, I always say this about the NBA. The NBA is a terrible experience to watch on TV. But I got to tell you, when I go to. to Pacer games. I have a blast. It's the opposite of the NFL. The NFL is the best to watch on TV. But when I had season tickets six years to the Colts, I couldn't stand going to an NFL

game. You know what I mean? No, 100%. I go to Mavs games. I have a great time. Great time. Yes. I would rather watch the Cowboys on TV. It is a sport built for TV. The only argument against that is college football is such a great environment that being there at a college football game does match what you see on TV. In fact, I would say college football is better in person than on TV because it's so long, they need to tighten that game up. It's four hours. So on TV, it lasts forever. I don't know what it is about basketball that has trouble translating to TV. I don't know. Well, it used to be in college basketball, you had a two-hour window. Literally, if your game started at seven, it was over at nine.

And it's still that way. But what happened in the NBA is you get these files and everybody's got timeouts left. When I was at Bowling Green, we had a hockey coach, a good friend of mine, Scott Pollock, and he would come to my games. And hockey, if you know, has one timeout. You get one timeout. And he would say to me, man, you're calling all these timeouts at the end of the game. Don't you guys practice?

Like, don't you practice plays? Don't you practice? I used to laugh. But the NBA, it's long. it's way too many just jump shots. Guys don't seem like they dislike each other and it resonates that way on TV. Now you go to a

game, the guys are unbelievable athletes. They're unbelievable size. The skill level is off the charts. The energy is always in the building but on TV I just, I can't watch and I want to. I'm a huge I'd watch anybody play basketball

but it's very difficult for me to watch. Let's stay on this for just a minute, ratings and basketball so do you think that the there are those that have made the argument that the game has evolved and just chuck in three-pointers the entire game long and that's made it boring do you think that is in part why the NBA doesn't seem it's not thriving whatever it is right now it's also there's also a very legitimate argument about star power they still have lebron and he is a star they don't have a lot of stars and you and i are fans so i'm going to watch Luca, but I'm also a fan.

So I'll understand if some kid in Indiana is like, I'm not, who's on tonight? The Mavs? I'm going to watch Luca. I'll understand if his answer is no. So do you think it's that there's not enough star power underneath LeBron and soon he won't be there? Or is it the nature of the game that it's this three point chucking game? What is it?

I think it's all of it. Charles Barkley said this to me, I think on my afternoon radio show, he goes, you know, think about this. The two best players in the NBA are both. Fat Europeans, white guys. Fat, God, I'm like, wait a second. And then I, you know, Jokic and Luca Donzik. He goes, so here we are in America.

And, you know, we all have seen LeBron for 100 years and now he's older. But the two best MVP is a fat European. His words, not mine. You know, he's a Serbian. I'm Serbian, so he's in shape. Donchik, same thing. And to your point about Star Power, power. you know, like Michael Jordan was really a likable television guy.

Like, you know, his commercials were funny. The thing with Spike Lee was off the charts. Barclay, really likable guy. You know, I've said this. There's not a lot of likability. Kevin Durant is a really smart, nice, engaging guy. But the way he has been doing interviews where he kind of sits back here and does that, people get turned off by that.

I really believe that. Like Steph Curry certainly is a likable guy, and likability kind of matters. And the other thing, to your point about the game, I do think that the skill level is beyond anything we've ever seen. The bodies are incredible. The physical conditioning, the strength, the builder, the best, I would argue they're the best athletes in the world. Six foot nine, 240 pounds. I don't know what they can run a 40 in, but it's probably under five. They can jump this high and shoot the ball.

like nobody's business. But it's almost, when I watch, I kind of equated to a pickup game. Like last time I played basketball was probably 10 years ago, and I told the guys, look, I'm going from top of the key to top of the key. That is it. I am not getting hit. And it seems like, you know, we had 1003s taking in a game the other day in the NBA. Isaiah Thomas, another guy that came on my show, by the way, he said, you know,

he said, used to be we would see the dunks. right we would see dunks on sports now we see threes you know we see all these threes you know too much of one thing isn't good but i think it's all encompassing the NBA was the first league in my opinion when day when David Stern was there that sold the stars it was about the star it wasn't necessarily about the team it was magic and bird doing McDonald's commercials playing horse it was Jordan with all those commercials now and that really sold the league get sold it internationally. And now it gets sold internationally because you have so many international players,

but you don't have the guy like Jordan that stayed three years in college and people got to know him or Barclay that stayed three years or Patrick Gwing that stayed four years. You know, you develop a certain brand from college and the popularity of North Carolina or Isaiah for a couple years at India or whoever, magic, whatever. And you don't have that anymore. You've got guys coming from, you know, some semi- pro league or a guy that's in college for one year, a European dude. And I think it all adds up, Will, to a product that people are disinterested in right

now. And to your point, if we did a top five list of players in NBA, and I don't know if this would be current, but, you know, we talked about this last season. For the top five, you would argue are not Americans. Janice Santo Tocumpo, Luca Donchich, Nicola Yolich, I think St. Gilles, Gilles, Alexander is Canadian. Not that that matters, because actually to the point, it's not right. wrong, it just is. Americans are going to gravitate to Americans. It's the name. And by the way,

that's why Shea Giles Alexander, I said, may not matter because no one knows that he's Canadian. You're going to gravitate to somebody that you recognize a name that you recognize that you can pronounce. It's just the way it is. I was going to ask you, I was going to ask about the NBA today. And here's, this kind of ties into it. So I'm starting to tune in. I mean, I've been to a couple Mavs games already this season, and I pay attention, but I'm now starting to get, like, okay, who in the NBA is good? And, you know, it's weird. The calves are really good, really good, chasing like the Warriors 71 game record.

The Thunder are really good, really good. And these, although the Thunder have, you know, Chey Gildes Alexander and the Cavs have Donovan Mitchell, these are teams like the Celtics who also have stars like Jason Taylor. them, but they're not the super team. They're not the one big star driven Michael Jordan Bulls or whatever it may be. And I know there was other guys. The point is, what I recognize about the Celtics last year, the Cavs, OKC, you're actually talking about four, five, six, seven players that matter. It's like a team. You said a minute ago the league used to sell stars, but what we're seeing when are, in that case, three completes teams. Yeah, the league sold stars.

stars, but those stars, whether it was Bird, Magic, Isaiah, Jordan, you name it. They encompassed team as well. Like, nobody was a better teammate, pass, or first guy than Bird or Magic. And they saved the league. The reason I'm talking about them is they saved the league. The league back before, well, in 1980, the championship game, in Game 6, which Magic scored 43 as a rookie, was on tape delay. So they came in, and they changed it, and they made it about team.

And then we had the, quote, super teams, and those guys won. I mean, look, you put, you know, but Dwayne Wade is an all-time winner, and I would argue that LeBron James in his career has been about being a great basketball player along with whatever else he's doing. But right now, if you think about it, I watched the Cavs against Indiana the other night. You talk about a throwback team. Like, Mowgli was an early pick. Great.

Darius Garland, who, by the way, used to come to my basketball camp in Gary, Indiana when he was like that tall. I'm very proud to say, he's terrific. You know, they just pass the ball. And they're not going to, and this is an interesting thing, because let me ask you this. We always look at the ratings and we say, well, it's got to be L.A. It's got to be New York or it's got to be name of star, LeBron or Miami. Well, you know what?

The Cavaliers, as you mentioned, are going to get really interesting if they keep winning. Shea Gilgis Alexander in Oklahoma City, they're going to put these two small markets, smaller markets, they're going to put the NBA in a bit of a trick bag to see if people, people as we move through the season and games get on TNT or games get on ESPN of those teams. Anybody watching? I don't know how many people know Shea Gildes, Alexander. Donovan Mitchell may be a little bit more. He has playoff success in Utah. It's an interesting thing with ratings going down and now your best teams are small markets. That going to boost those ratings? I don't know. I don't know. No. I agree. But I mean, what are you supposed to do? You're supposed to

I like, honestly, I like this better than the era where we funneled stars to New York, Miami, and L.A. Me too. I don't like that. That feels manufactured and dominant and leaves the rest of the country out. So, I mean, give me this. Colin Coward always says, you say you want the underdog. You say you want the, you know, the 12 seed making a run to the final four, but you don't because you'll tune out. You need it to be Duke in North Carolina every year.

And he makes a point. We want recognizable brands. But I'm a fan, meaning I'm a fan in the way that I think you're supposed to be a fan. I'm not a casual. I follow my teams and I look at the calves or I look at the Thunder and I go, wow, those are really well-built teams. I give the GM credit and I want that in Dallas, which I think I have in Dallas and they're doing pretty good. So I just, I don't know, it gives me hope to see teams like that.

When I see Miami and L.A. dominating, I'm like, well, that's the league. I guess we'll always be also RANDS. And I've always said this. Like I really enjoy the NBA playoffs. Like I up until the last couple of years, I actually enjoyed the NBA playoffs more than the NCAA tournament. Last year I did as well, actually, now I think about it, because the Pacers went deep.

The Pacers went to the Eastern Conference finals. Now, I live in basketball country. I'm here in Indy. You know, basketball is king for the most part. And going to an NBA, the environment, as you've, know you guys went to the finals the environment around the building in may weather's getting nice sitting outside seven o'clock eight o'clock game you're having a beer everybody's in a great mood i love it i i i love one of my favorite sporting events is to go to a pacer's playoff

game because of everything that it entails you know it's cold as hell here you know that kind of thing but i'm with you i like well-built teams i like teams that have uh share it you got to have a star, Gildes Alexander, Donovan Mitchell, we've taught. You've got to, you know, I think those teams are way more fun than the other stuff. But ratings don't indicate it. You and I are a bit of on an island. And we are, we are. Well, okay, one more ratings question, and we'll move to the NFL because I can already, people

like, NBA, NBA, we've got a national championship in college football and we've got the NFL playoffs. NFL Wild Card Weekend was down 9.3%, Dockich, year over year. I don't know if you saw that. I mean, why? And it's, by the way, you know what was the Sunday and Monday games that were down? Not the Saturday game. So you could say, oh, Saturday, this whole Saturday thing they've been doing.

It's the Sunday and Monday marquee games, you know, that were down. I feel like, tell me if you feel this way. And I'm being literal here. I feel like everybody I know sets their day to watch Wild Card Weekend and to watch this weekend, Ravens, you know, at Buffalo. I feel like I saw those ratings. Yeah. I mean, last weekend, I've said this forever. I am a Colts fan, and it pisses me off that I got to watch every other team for the last four years on Wild Card weekend because I want to sit there. I'm going to sit there anyway. I'm going to watch, but I want it to be my team. I don't understand ratings. I don't. I know that they're truthful. I know that they reflect, but I swear to God, Will, I saw that. And I thought, wow, I'm being literal here. Right.

What else was, okay, there's some college basketball games. Who cares right now? I'm just saying, I saw that my first reaction, well, that's not right. You know what I mean? Oh, that's crap. But they always are. They're always right. And they matter.

But every single human being that I know watches this and can't wait to watch it. And damn near watches it starting on Saturday from what, 1 o'clock until Sunday at midnight when the 8 o'clock game is over. Maybe the NFL isn't as king as we think. The only argument that I can think of, Doc Hitch, would be that the wildcard weekend is getting watered down. And I'm just trying to think back how many of those games were actually competitive. You know, the Texans blew out the Chargers. You know, we've expanded the playoffs, but it was expanded last year, too. So it's not like that's the differentiating factor.

But at some point, if you keep expanding it and the games aren't competitive, maybe the fan is like I'm not that vested in what we'll find out this weekend because these are good games I mean commanders lions Rams Eagles Ravens Bills Texans chiefs there's no reason that these shouldn't rate if the Ravens Bill's game doesn't rate when you've got the two best quarterbacks there's a big debate who should be the MVP you know whether it's Allen if you're a Buffalo or Lamar Jackson I have an incredibly unhealthy it's an unhealthy fandom for Lamar Jackson, I do want to say, though, Will. I love that kid. I love everything

about him. When I saw him his senior year, the year after he won the Heisman, and I'm like, this dude's the best player I've ever seen. I have a weird, ridiculous thing. But with him, I just like everything about him. But I'm telling you, if that game doesn't rate, then you need L.A., then you need New York, and you need Chicago, and screw the rest of it, because that you could

make an argument is the best game. at Dallas. Yeah, you need Dion at Dallas. Pay Dion, anything he wants. Back up the truck. Get him to Dallas. And as Greenberg said on his show the other day, we'll make you the first story on every show,

on every program on ESPN. Can you imagine? By the way, okay, so first of all, I'm in, Doggich. I want Deion as the head coach of Cowboys. I don't know how you feel. You should. Okay.

Did we talk about this on your show? So my thing on this, Docich, is, and I can believe, all these things at the same time, that Dion was overhyped at Colorado, certainly in the beginning, and it was undeserved, all the attention, all the attention, and all the attention, and they were losing to Nebraska, you know. He did end up being a good coach, and I give him credit for that, because he took Colorado what ended up being nine and three this year, and they got blown out in the bowl game, but that's a heck of a job to take what they said

was the worst program in the country to that. But that's not even, so all that does is give me a baseline. Okay, he's a pretty good. coach. He's done it several places. But my real argument is every other kind of coach has basically failed under Jerry Jones. Every one of them. You've had the stars, Bill Parcells. You've had the humble guys like Mike McCarthy. You've had them all, okay? Meaning the problem isn't necessarily the coach. We know that. So how do I find a coach that can be maximized under Jerry Jones? And this argument is unique to Dion and Dallas. It doesn't mean I think Dion should be the head coach of the Steelers. It means I think Dion should be the head coach of the Cowboys because I think his big

personality, importantly, his relationship with Jerry. He dominates the media, not Jerry. He wins over players. He'll win over young players. I actually am willing, I'm not here to say guaranteed success, but if you're rolling dice on the table and you're Jerry Jones, that's the dice to roll. Here's a unique kind of coach that could be successful. And by the way, if it's true about Jerry Jones. All he cares about is marketing. That's a no-brainer, like Mike Greenberg said. I mean, people are going to throw up from talking about too much cowboys.

Oh, and, you know, Dion Sanders is so smart. Like, he embraced the whole cowboy thing out there with the cowboy hat. Here's, I'm going to name drop again, a guy that comes on my show all the time, the great Urban Meyer. He told me this. He said, look, I went out there and spent a week, weekend,

whatever it was, and I got full access when they first were there in their first training. camp in August two years ago. He goes, Dan, I'm telling you, this is a real coach. These guys coach him hard. He has coaches and he holds coaches accountable. So when Urban says that, because he's not exactly, and he's a friend from back when we coached at Bowling Green together,

I've known him before he became Urban Meyer. So he'll tell me the truth. And so I followed this. And if you really think about what Dion Sanders did coming from Jackson State, inheriting arguably the worst power five team in America in what Colorado was. They were a mess. Next thing you know, in two years, he's got him in a pretty good bowl winning, as you said, nine games, and everybody's paying attention.

So he can coach, he can build, and he's the perfect personality, my opinion, sometimes you mentioned it, maybe not for, I don't know, maybe not for the bears or the cold, I don't know, but for the Cowboys, Fit is important. And I think this, I think the Cowboys. boys like Kentucky foot basketball. Kentucky basketball when they hired Cala Perry felt fortunate the fans did to get Calipari. Like when they had Billy Clyde, I forget his, he was the coach before, Gillespie, they're like, we're doing you a favor. Yeah, Mike, Mike McCarthy comes over, Dallas fans, we're doing you a favor. Deion comes over and the whole vibe is different.

And I'm going to go back to what I said initially about what Urban Meyer said. And the dude can coach and he's smart as hell and he understands marketing and this is another thing urban he knows what he doesn't know and if you watch him on the sideline he is yes he knows what he doesn't know as a coach and that is so important he knows maybe he doesn't understand defenses or like or off it whatever it is it's like when larry bird coached the pacers he had a defensive coordinator and he had an offensive coordinator and he handled kind of the the macro, kind of the umbrella. It's so smart.

It tells me that Dion is smart. He's a real coach. I would get him there so damn fast. I wouldn't even, I know. They got DAC. I would get it there so fast. You know, whatever you got to do, get this man here. And next thing you know, your whole operation has juice.

And let's be honest, the Dallas Cowboys have no juice right now. There's nothing there. And you've got to have juice. You've got to have momentum in your program. Graham. I'll tell you something else. Two things. Apathy has never been higher among Cowboys Nation. That's bad. Jerry, that's real bad. Like, when they fired Mike McCarthy, Doc, I don't even know if I did it on my show. You know, I do sports on my digital show here and there. I might have done it a little bit. But, you know, a couple years ago, they fired Mike McCarthy. That's days of

content for me because I care. This time I'm like, eh, I don't care. You know, he's, losing us caring and that's a big deal so dion you care everything now becomes relevant again and you have an identity there just has to be an identity beyond the jones family there has to be an identity beyond it and you can't avoid it you're going to have one with dion yeah you are and you know what it's still going to be you know people are still going to say well is dac any good as dac is okay that's fine that's that's a part of it that's great but we always always always say this in coaching, you got to get momentum in your program. And when you have momentum, boy, you got to work like crazy to keep it. Good things. You know, we won some games and now we got

to recruit and now we got to, you know, all of a sudden, hey, look, this guy's an All-American, and now we want some more, you know, and when you lose it, and I agree with you, I think the Dallas Cowboys have absolutely lost momentum. And this, you know, the cowboy for me, I grew up in Chicago, outside Chicago, and we got the Bears every Sunday. That was, you know, that was the team that we got. And then the big game, the 4 o'clock game was literally like Cowboys Redskins, Cowboys Giants, Cowboys, you know, Roger Stauback was back there. Clint Longley was saving the day. Hoga Boom, you know, Danny White came, the whole thing. And there's a reason they're America's team. The juice is just, I feel like, waiting.

bubbling, but they got to get somebody to bring it out and pop it. And the only guy that I see is Dion Sanders. Maybe Belichick, I don't know, different, but Sanders would be the guy. It would even be close for me. Yeah. 10 million to get him. Me too. Speaking of America's team, let's talk about the national championship game on Monday night. I saw a graphic. I think our mutual friend Clay Travis has one put it out. Like, Notre Dame out of the blue is America's team. Like, Everyone is rooting for Notre Dame over Ohio State. Everybody but the state of Ohio. I am, and it's not because the Buckeyes beat the Longhorns.

It's because I really like Marcus Freeman. I assume you do, I'm going to be curious. I'm always curious when you throw me a curveball on this. And I like, I like Riley Leonard. They're really easy to root for both of these guys. And, you know, like the Cowboys, Notre Dame actually fell into apathy. I stopped carrying.

There was a time when everybody loved or hated Notre Dame. And then they kind of went away and you stopped hating them. And now here they are back. I'll root for Notre Dame. I grew up an hour away. Catholic kid, Catholic school, Gary, Indiana. And I didn't care about Notre Dame. In fact, when I committed to go play basketball at Indiana, two nuns called me in to my homeroom after school.

And they said, Mr. Dockitz, why aren't you going to Notre Dame? And I said, well, Digger Phelps didn't recruit me. He didn't recruit Indiana kids, so I'm going to Indiana. Well, we're going to fix that. So these two nuns tried to call Digger Phelps, right, and say, to recruit me. I never felt one way or the other about Notre Dame. I liked them fine. A couple guys that I played high school basketball against.

They went there. I rooted for them. But I really like this Notre Dame team. I really like them. I'll tell you a story. One of their linebackers, number 45, is a kid named Drake Bowen. Drake Bowen's from my high school. He was the Budkiss Award winner, meaning he was the best linebacker in high school football.

So he's going to make his announcement. Now, Northwest Indiana, Gary, Marriville, Highland, whatever, is Steelworkers Town. It's East Chicago. It's all harbor, steelwork, that kind of thing. So, you know how kids get on ESPN and they put a hat on, you know, and it's a big deal? They wanted him to do that. He said, no, I ain't doing it. He had his little ceremony at a bar the size of my head that his father would go

to in Highland, Indiana. Sticky floor, peanuts on the shelves, pouring Budweiser, you know, butt heavy and all that. That's us Catholics right there. We're drinking beer, probably a bingo game in the back, a card game somewhere. So I started liking Notre Dame again because of him. And then you see how great a dude Marcus Freeman is. And then you see how hard they play. There we go. And then you see they came back from losing to Northern Illinois, who by the way, wasn't good enough to really compete in the Mac, and you understand Notre Dame, look, we're higher, we're pious,

we're not supposed to lose the marshal under Freeman, we'd lose here. But you know what? They kept their heads down, started routing people, got in the playoffs, kicked the crap out of my Indiana Hoosiers, and I really like them, and I give you all that background

because I'm legitimately the guy that's supposed to like them, but never did, and now I do. I do, but I also like Ryan Day. But Ohio State's too Michigan crazy for me. And do you know this? Did you know this? Did you know since 1970? Actually, it might be 68.

Ohio State football has won only two national championships. 2000 and two under Tressor. 70? What's that? Since 70. Since 1970. 1970. Okay.

Two national champions. Two. Urban won it in 14. Tressel won it, and either two. I'm on the sideline, Indiana against Ohio State. My wife, I'm like, why are they so worried about beating Michigan? They beat Michigan 30, 40 times since 1970. Worry about winning a national championship.

You're Ohio State. I threw that out to Urban today on my afternoon show, and he laughed to me. He goes, no, that's never going to happen. No, it's about Michigan. Like, what? All right. I think they are going to win, by the way. I'm going to pull for Notre Dame.

I think it will be Ohio State. There's just so much talent, so much talent at Ohio State. Texas may have given a, Texas may have given them a blueprint there on how to deal with Jeremiah Smith. Because what do you end up with? One catch for three yards against Texas? And he's a force of nature, the freshman wide receiver. But you're going to give up something somewhere if you focus so much on Jeremiah Smith, whether or not it's the running backs, Judkins and Henderson, or the other receivers who's going to,

one of them is going to be a first round pick. anyway. And same kind of talent on the defense. Not that Notre Dame lacks talent. It's just too much at Ohio State. You know, one of the things Bill Belichick used to do, and I think this is what Texas did, when Belichick would play, and he always beat Peyton Manning, and

he would do this. He would take his second best cornerback and put him against Marvin Harrison, and then he would double him with a safety over the top. He would take his best cornerback and put him against Reggie Wayne, who wasn't quite as good as Harrison, quite his dynamic. That way, he had his best against us, and then they shut him out. And that's

what you're seeing. And, you know, I think it's going to be a low-scoring game. I think both defenses are terrific. I think, I'm not sure Riley Leonard. I asked Urban today, can Riley Leonard go on an 80-yard drive three times during a game and lead Notre Dame to touchdowns? He didn't think so, thought Will Howard probably because of the weapons, but eight and a half point spread seems an awful lot to me. Yeah, I mean, eight and a half point spread seems a lot. I don't know, but I think Ohio State's going to win. All right. Well, let's end with this. Let's do the four games. We'll leave the best one for last. Commanders, Lions, Jaden Daniels is great, but it's really hard to pick against what Dan Campbell's built in Detroit. I'm not picking

against Dan Campbell. I just, there's something, they got all these injuries, but you know what they do? They show up and they compete like hell. And that seems simple, right? And I'll tell you something. I watched Jared Goff, went to the game here in Indy. Man, he puts the ball right here.

Like, he, he, I don't know whether people think he's good, bad, happy, or sad, but he puts that damn thing right there. You talk about throwing in a teacup. I'm taking Dan Campbell in the Lions. All right. Eagles, Rams. I think Sequin Barclays made the Eagles. too much of a problem.

I mean, I don't like Philadelphia, but this is, this team is too good. This is probably, that's your NFC championship game because it should be Lions Eagles. I'm digging on the Rams. I thought the Rams pass rush was unbelievable

against Minnesota. I am. I think Matthew Stafford is the best throw over the football we may have ever seen. I remember I was at, I was at training camp. Detroit with Stafford was playing against Luck.

and the Colts. And I'm sitting there with a 35-year defensive coordinator named Rick Van Tury. And I'm looking at luck, and everybody telling me he's great. I go, Rick, I go, this Stafford throws the ball way better than luck. He goes, oh, he's the best thrower of football you'll ever see. He goes, you won't see anyone better. I think he's playing great. And I think this, Will, you know, the tragedy that's going on in L.A.,

I don't normally feel this way. But I felt like watching that game, even though it got moved to Arizona, I felt like there's a bigger deal here. I almost feel like Notre Dame has this camaraderie. I feel like the Rams have this thing. I'm taking the Rams over Jalen Hertz. Probably wrong, but I'm taking them. All right, Casey Houston.

You know, Casey is like going to Vegas and you're sitting through that table and it keeps coming up red. I guess the way it is it keeps coming up red and you're like sooner or later, the odds suggest it's going to hit black. and you're the dummy that keeps losing money because every time you think it's going to be black.

They've looked vulnerable all season. All season they've looked like they could lose a game. And maybe it will. Maybe it will be in the AFC championship game, but I don't think it's going to be against Houston. It ain't going to be against you. Houston played their brains out, and credit to Nico Rines.

His defense had hardball and certainly Justin Herbert confused. I mean, it was like this is a little dated movie for you, but the Exorcist, when Linda Blair's head spun all the way around, that's what I felt like Justin Herbert was, like spinning all around. No, man, I don't think good for them, good for the Texans. I think he's the first guy, first, second year guy, C.J. Stroud to win a playoff game in his first and second year. But you telling me, let's say down five with three minutes to go and Mahomes got the ball, please. I don't think I'm not betting against Mahomes until I have to.

until you have to exactly that was always my response to max kellerman on the tom brady's going to go over the cliff remark i'm like well you may be right but i'll be the last one here at the party turning out the lights that's the same thing with mahomes yeah all right then this is the big one like you said raven's bills this is the race war quarterback race war that everyone's tried to build up on espion uh jackson versus uh josh allen This is so tough talkage because I agree with you about Jackson. By the way, I really like the guy as a person. I only interviewed him once.

Just the nicest dude as well. But I like Josh Allen too. Like as a player and seemingly as a person, I never met him. I just keep thinking one of these years is the Bill's breakout year. And they get over the boogeyman, which is KC. But in order to do that, they got to get over with the Ravens. Derek Henry is a problem. Derek Henry in the playoffs with Lamar Jackson.

I'm still going bills. I'm still. I like James Cook. I think the Ravens defense shows vulnerability. I'm going bills. My wife was a softball coach, Syracuse University. And it's, you know, close enough to Buffalo, right? And she tells me, no, it's not cold.

It's pristine. Yeah, yeah. She's like, no, it's not cold. It's pristine. So I threw that out to John Gruden today. I said, you know, you're mentioning the cold. And my wife says she had fungos in the snow, you know, all that. And Gruden said to me, yeah, tell your wife to try to hit Derek Henry when it's 19 degrees with a 10 below wind chill factor.

Yeah, I'm not going against Derek Henry and Lamar Jackson. You know, to your point, though, don't you believe this? It's somebody's busting out. Like, Lamar Jackson, people say, well, he's going to win his third MVP. but he hasn't done anything in the playoffs. Well, he wins this one. He's done something in the playoffs. Everybody says, with Josh Allen,

boy, would that be a big winning? But you're right. This is like the race war. People are saying, well, if Josh Allen wins and the ESPN guys, they'll say, that's only one game. If Lamar Jackson wins, they'll say, see, see, he's a better quarterback.

I don't care about any of that. I have an unhealthy fandom for Lamar Jackson. I'll tell you another story. Derek Henry, in college, bumped into my daughter's best friend. She was a University of Alabama student. People were trying to take a picture. She was in line at the Starbucks.

She gets jostled, turns around, it's Derek Henry. She said Derek Henry was the nicest dude, was so apologetic, pushed people away, bought her and her friend, Vente or whatever the big coffee is at Starbucks. I'm in on Derek Henry. I haven't in a crazy fandom for Lamar Jackson. and John Harbaugh, every time he sees me, he comes and sits down at the combine

and does an interview without me ever asking. So I'm all in on them. Really? Yeah. It's in it amazing how far that can go. I met Derek Henry at the draft in Nashville. We did first take from there. He came and sat down,

and you're 100% right, the nicest guy. It's always hard to know because most guys try to be nice on media, which says something about the guys, like you were talking about earlier, who don't, like maybe KD. like it goes a long way just being nice so it's real easy to root for Derek Henry and it translates on TV but seeing in person he's giant he's like a he's a legitimate giant

it does translate on TV he looks it on the football field will if you ever want to feel bad about yourself look at Derek Henry's workouts like YouTube or something it it's the most like when I was a kid Walter Payton would run this hill and so all of us ran this a hill the hill and we're running. Derek Henry does this stuff with, with chains and tires and washing machines and it's like holy hell.

So what, is he 31 years old? They say a running back drops at 30. If you watch those workouts, if you ever board and, you know, you're tired of watching Nancy Mace yelling at, you know, Pete Hagseth or yelling at that Jasmine Crosby later, whatever the hell are they. Just check

that out, man. It's unbelievable. It's great. All right, Dockich, I don't know what your schedule's like starting at 4 o'clock Eastern time, but I hope I see you, man. I hope I start seeing some of you on the Will Cain Show. I hope you have me on. You know I'm right here. Thanks, my friend.

Congrats, by the way. Dan Dockis. Big time, congrats. Thanks, buddy. Thank you so much. There you go. Don't at me with Dan Dock. There you go.

I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Dan Dockich. Make sure you check him out at Outkick.com. It's Don't At Me with Dan Dockich. I'll see you next time. Listen ad free with a Fox News Podcast. Plus subscription on Apple Podcasts, and Amazon Prime members, you can listen to this show, ad-free, on the Amazon Music app. From the Fox News Podcasts Network. Hey there, it's me, Kennedy.

Make sure to check out my podcast. Kennedy saves the world. It is five days a week, every week. Download and listen at Fox Newspodcast.com or wherever you listen to your favorite podcast.