Will Cain Country - Is Russian Collusion Going To Factor Into the Election?

Episode Date: February 21, 2024

Story #1: Is former Ambassador Nikki Haley sticking around in case something happens to former President Trump? Plus, a look into the life of America’s Newsroom co-anchor Bill Hemmer with the man himself. Story #2: The most dangerous man in America says the way to reduce black crime is to reduce laws targeting blacks. Fulton County D.A. Fani Willis and lawyer Ben Crump lead the charge against the perception of crime and black culture. Story #3: Will Russian collusion play a major role during the upcoming election? Who will former President Trump pick as VP? The Federalist’s CEO Sean Davis joins the show to discuss.   Tell Will what you thought about this podcast by emailing [e-mail]  Follow Will on Twitter: @WillCain Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Stop. Do you know how fast you were going? I'm going to have to write you a ticket to my new movie, The Naked Gun. Liam Nissan. Buy your tickets now. I get a free Tilly Dog. Not included. The Naked Gun.

Tickets on sale now. August 1st. just in case something happens with Donald Trump. Plus, what's the life of Bill Himmer? Two, the most dangerous man in America says that the way to reduce crime is to reduce laws. Fannie Willis and Ben Crumper. And three, Russia, Russia, Russia, Joe Biden buying votes by canceling student debt, and Trump picking his vice president with the federalist.

Sean Davis. It's the Will Cain Show streaming live at Fox News.com and on the Fox News YouTube channel every day at 12 o'clock Eastern time right here, wherever you get your audio entertainment at Apple, Spotify, or at Fox News podcast, or on subscription at Will Cain show on YouTube. Today we have a big show where we have Sean Davis discusses. Donald Trump's town hall with Laura Ingraham. He gave a short list of vice presidential candidates. We have a potential list of five. Who makes the most sense as vice president

for Donald Trump? And what's the difference between political parties in Mexico, handing out tortillas and grocery in the line as you head to the voter booth? And Joe Biden today sending out an email to hundreds of thousands of Americans saying, I'm canceling your dead. That's all coming up in just a little bit right here on the Will Cain show. But I want to start with story number one. He is the host of America's newsroom. He was an anchor at CNN for 10 years, and he has been at the Fox News Channel for about 18. Help me with my math, Bill. 18, 19 years. It is Bill Himmer. up, man. I'm great, brother. It was nice to be

with you with the Super Bowl. You know, we had to do it, Will. I mean, they need somebody to go and cover it, so we raised our hands. You know what? I was a little struck by, actually. You didn't like the stadium. And I left Las Vegas going, man, what a town that is. And I'm not a big fan of Las Vegas to begin with. I mean, I'm pretty much 48 hours and out. I don't gamble much. I play a little blackjack here and there, but

like the slots, you can have them. got no time for him. And you didn't like the stadium. I was like, wow, what was up with that? I know it sounds, I know it sounds spoiled, and I don't, but I also just have to be real. I just, you know, a stadium that is a year old, you know, had nothing interesting in the way of food. It looked unfinished. The hallways were tight, and there was a nine-holler at the bathroom.

And I just think maybe I'm spoiled because I live in Dallas and I have AT&T, which, by the way, is 20 years old. But I just think if you build a stadium in 2022, you ought to be up to at least the standard. Maybe you don't have to be SOFI. Maybe you don't have to be AT&T. But you should probably make a top five list of best stadiums if you're just a year or two over there. Yeah, my only contribution would be I honestly agree with you on the potty parody thing. That was way out of control. You could not find a short line anywhere at any particular time in the game. It just wasn't there.

And I'll tell you something. I found myself in line to take a leak with Titus O'Neill, W.W.E. Star, giant of a man. And we were both craning our neck around the corner to see some small screen television in the hallway. Because, of course, there was action during the Super Bowl. I think another thing you should do is you should have a television set. in the bathroom. If there's going to be a line, we need to be able to see the game ongoing while we're at the urinal. Agreed. Fair point. Well, sorry, Allegiant Stadium. But I am here today with Bill Himmer. Bill, I want to get into some things outside the news cycle, but let's

start today with something that happened on your show, that happened on America's Newsroom. You had on Nikki Haley after her special announcement yesterday, which amounted to not much of an announcement that she's just going to remain in the race. But you asked her, you said, What are you waiting around for in this race? Let's listen to Nikki Haley. You do see yourself as an insurance policy pending on how these court cases turn out. I very much see myself as a Republican option that people can realize when you see Donald Trump can't win and you know that we have to turn this country around, then I am your alternative. That's what I've always tried to say is, look, let's get somebody who can win.

When I defeat Biden by double digits, when I win swings. states over Biden. That's how you win a general election. You don't win a general election sitting in a courtroom. You don't win a general election where you're taking the side of Putin over our allies who stood next us at 9-11. Bill, I think the answer was yes. I agree. She sees herself as an insurance policy. Yeah. Yeah. She did a long interview with the Associated Press. And the quote she gave was, by the way, if you look at any of these contests so far, you've had three states she's won two counties i don't know how saturday night goes it's her home state um marco rubia won two counties in 2016 granted there were six contenders back then now you've got two

um it's it's a binary choice it's haley or trump uh does she win any of the 46 i don't know but here here's was her quotes instead of asking me what states i'm going to win because that's that's eventually where you lead on this conversation. It's after South Carolina and past Michigan at Super Tuesday. So throw a dart, pick a spot on the map, and tell us where are you going to win? And I knew she would not go there because of this quote. Instead of asking me what states I'm going to win, why don't we ask how he's going to win a general election after spending a full year and a courtroom? That was where the question came from.

Then later in the interview, she said, how in the world do you win a general election when these cases keep coming and going and the judgments keep coming? And my point on that was there is evidence based on polling that the more time Trump spends in a courtroom, the better his numbers get. Now, I don't know if that changes with a conviction. Maybe it does. Some of the polling suggests that. But I think before we answer that, Will, we have to wait and see if and when it happens, and then we'll see how the public responds. Well, your question's well positioned because there isn't a path for Nicky Haley to become the nominee for president through the electoral process. She doesn't have a state, much less as you point out, even a county that she can count on to nominate her as the Republican candidate for president. So you say, why? Why do you stick around through an embarrassment through your home state of South Carolina? Why do you stick around for Super Tuesday? And the answer has to be there in your question.

I'm waiting for Donald Trump to lose in a courtroom, and then that somehow makes me the nominee for president. Yeah, I guess the next time it comes up, and I think it will come up, because what she has said this week is that she's staying in through Super Tuesday. Now, the Trump team thinks they're going to lock up the nomination by March 19th, which is two Tuesdays after March 5th, Super Tuesday. And if that's the case, you know, they're on a glide path. But I think if the question comes up again, we try and figure out, is that a yes or no? You know, is it the insurance policy? And I agree with your observation that based on her answer, I think we already know what it is. It's yes.

So I mentioned, Bill, that I want to talk to you about some things outside of the news cycle. We did get to hang out together two weeks ago. You did appear here on the Wilcane show. We talked about the Super Bowl. But, you know, one of my goals here on the Wilcane show is not just for me, but for the audience to have a little bit more time to get to know the people they see every day on Fox News. And as I'm learning more about you, you've been a guy who has been in front of the camera for a long time now, Bill.

But you've also really taken it as, I would assume, a point of pride that you're also out in the field telling stories. And I just looked at your resume. It's not just Super Bowls. It's Iraq. It's Afghanistan. It's Sandy Hook. It's Pennsylvania mine workers.

But one of the stories that stuck out to me on your resume, on your list of experiences, Bill, is that you were there when Timothy McVeigh was put to death. And it just kind of stuck out to me because I wonder what that experience was like. I don't know, were you in the room? I was not in the room. No, there was a very short. I wonder what that. Yeah, a very short number of people they took in.

And I was not one selected. That was Terre Haute, Indiana, after a horrific story in Oklahoma City. But continue with your question. Well, that one stuck out to me because I was immediately curious about, I wonder what Bill saw, I wonder what he felt, I wonder what he came away from that, maybe even how he was changed from that story, but I don't want to box you into just that story. You having been to so many places, I'm just curious, you know, you're still in front of the camera, but you spend a lot of time, you know, burying yourself, getting to know some place, some people, some story. what is the one that kind of changes Bill Himmer? Wow, great question. Thank you. If you will allow me, look, I had 10 great years at CNN, really phenomenal years.

I mean, I really fought hard to get out the door, which wasn't easy to do. You know, you're young, and you're trying to lay an impression on your bosses, and you're trying to get them ultimately to trust you. And after banging on the doors for so many years, they finally dispatched me to the Aviano Air Base in Italy because there was an air war of... over Kosovo at the time. Bill Clinton, then president, agreed to allow NATO flights to fly no lower than, think, think about how war has changed in your life. Think about this. We come out of Vietnam in the mid-70s. America is scarred for a long time. In the early

1990s, there were troops sent into Somalia, and they had a rough time. And there was a helicopter that was shot out of the sky. And then again, we start to feel, hey, man, we can't lose anybody. And this continued for some time. And so the air war was ordered at 15,000 feet, no less, over Kosovo. And while you think about that, Will, what's happened since then? What's changed since then? Why, why, and what explains why the politicians were so reticent?

when it came to casualties. I'm talking injuries, the wounded. We stayed away from that, I would argue, for decades. And the thing that popped really was 9-11, and the whole country was just balls in on it. You know, let's go. Let's rebuild our military. Let's learn how to fight.

And let's settle the score. And I think about how things changed during Afghanistan, then the war in Iraq, And then we became suddenly the fighting force that we're capable of. And that's the United States military, which continues to refine itself and invent things that the private sector could only dream about doing. And the sacrifice by so many men and women. I just think about that process for how we went from my first assignment overseas with CNN, you know, through Afghanistan and through Pakistan and through the Middle East, time and time again, as to where we are now. And it's all changed.

We're back in a place where we should be as the world's leading superpower. And for me to see that evolution, it really just leaves an impression on me in a way where I've seen it happen. I've seen the way it changes lives. I've seen the sacrifice that's gone into it. And it's hard not to walk away being so impressed with that. And I'll tease you one assignment. I got a good one coming up here in a couple weeks. I'm not going to tell you what it is yet

because I don't want to talk about it until it happens. I don't want to jinx this no-hitter, okay? But it's a dozy, and I can't wait. It's a real adventure. But when I reflect about, you know, the last, you know, 10 years at CNN, 18, 19 at Fox, you know, we're coming up in 30 years. And 9-11 is hard to escape.

You cannot have this conversation, Will, based on your question, without thinking about 9-11. But there were a couple of the things that really, I like to think that reporters are good when they have thick skin and broad shoulders and keep the story like a Heisman trophy, you know, that far from your head and your heart. And the reason you want to keep it away from your heart is because you want your head to think, especially when things are popping and not to be overcome by the emotion. I think a lot of people are very good at that. I think I learned how to be good at that. But between 9-11, and there was an earthquake in Port-au-Prince Haiti, and we went flying in there. And by the way, this is on the island of Hispaniola, and the east side is Dominican Republic, fully developed, and the West is Haiti, which has been tortured by their governments for decades.

Billions and billions of U.S. and American dollars and international dollars have gone into that government, and they've just squandered all of it. And the net result is what you see in the streets and the town every day. And that's a third world country that isn't too far, just a short plane rhyme for the United States of America. But their political leaders have squandered their opportunities time and again. So you fly in that environment, number one. And number two, you've got this horrendous earthquake. And you're thinking, you're asking, like, what did they do? You know, from the heavens above, how did this happen to you people?

And it really gets you. And the other story was Sandy Hook. We went up, there was a bulletin that crossed on the AP, I think it was 9.30 in the morning. It might have been 8.30. But what you don't want with a school shooting or any shooting is one line of information and then dead silence for hours. Because that's a telltale sign. So we knew it was an elementary school. We knew it was Sandy Hook.

We had no information for hours. And then it started to dribble in a little more. little more and talk to the boss. He said, you want to go up, and I said, I'll be there. And I tell you what, well, it's a long story. I'll truncated for the purpose of our conversation here. If you were to walk through the parking lot of Sandy Hook Elementary, it was as close as I have ever been to smelling the devil. And I could feel it. I knew it was there. It was satanic in nature and really took me back. And remember this is mid-December. And I remember walking over the camera when I got back to the camera location. I said, just remember, you know, these are five

and six-year-old kids. And for most of them, their parents already have Christmas presents wrapped for them that they will never open. And we hung out there for a long time. On that Saturday afternoon, the coroner came out and gave a press conference. And I want to relay the story to you quickly because I want you to hear it. Corners are people of, they're of a different breed. They're training, what they do for a living, how they explain it to others. They gave a press conference in the middle of Saturday afternoon. It was mid-December again, and America was living in its life. And if you're a reporter on these stories, you have to pay attention to the detail. And if you don't pay attention to the detail, you're going to miss things. It's for any story,

whether you're working the hill or whether you're at Sandy Hook. And we had to listen to these little five- and six-year-old bodies, the way he described, these bullets going through their flesh. And, man, it just takes your breath away. And I would say those three stories are what I seem to come back to. And I come back to them, not because of what you learned or what you saw, but because of what you felt. And that's what did it for me.

You know, Bill, we had Tony Robbins here on the Will Cane show last week, and he said, we live in a world full of information. You're an onslaught of information, but information without emotion is not retained. He said it's one of the reasons women have such long memories just compared to men, but I appreciate. He may not be wrong. He said, I appreciate. I appreciate you talking about how you felt about those stories, and that's the balance of your job, our job. I like the Heisman trophy analogy, is to hold the story. You can't ignore your heart.

You have to feel, and you have to relay that emotion to an audience, but you also have to analyze it with your head, so you have to hold it out like the Heisman pose. I appreciate that. One of the things about your bio, Bill, that stands out to me, is on this same on this same subject. It's an interest in always getting out, out of the studio, out, I don't know, out of the norm. You know, I saw you like me love sports. You always have. You started out doing sports. But then you took this, I think you were 26 years old. You took this hiatus. You backpacked all over the

world. But you also made it part of your job filing dispatches back to your local media. Why? Why go hit? What was it? Southeast Asia? Middle East. Yeah. I'm older than you. So bear with me here. This was the early 90s. This was the early 90s. This This is right before email, and it's right before ATMs. Okay, think about that. You're traveling with books, Will, literally. I had my midlife crisis at age 26, and I felt if I did not circumnavigate the globe with a backpack, all Third World Travel now. This wasn't like Paris and London and Amsterdam.

This had some grit to it. And I thought, if I don't get this done by the time I'm 30, you know, my life means nothing. And I don't know why I felt that, but I guess it was a sense of adventure. And maybe for me it was a pursuit of an education that I felt at that point in my life I had not yet acquired. And I can tell you, you know, listen, these were emerging – these were third world countries before they became emerging markets, before they came competitors with the United States. We're talking China. We're talking India. Vietnam, Southeast Asia, Indonesia, Middle East, Eastern Europe, Russia, gone for 10 months.

And every day you wake up, you do something that you have never done before in your life. And it's the fullest education that I can imagine. When you're being a good reporter, when you are out understanding the story, face to face with people who have experienced it, you learn about it in a whole different. way rather than just sitting at a desk. Not there's anything wrong with a desk. The advantage of being an anchor every day is that on those stories where you are not out there, you at least get a voice on some of the biggest stories of the day for that particular day. And so what this trip did for me is it gave me an education. I would have never gotten without it. Were you

be alone? Yeah, for the most part. I left with a buddy of mine and we traveled for a couple months and he split, and I sort of blazed the trail. Wow. You know what, Will's really interesting? There's no travel guides on this. You know, you're at a train station somewhere in Varanasi, India, and you're trying to figure out how to get to Delhi. Well, you've got to figure out the writing on the wall, right?

And the same thing is true for China. I would take a 37-hour train ride maybe from Guamjo up to Beijing before they had the high-speed rail, 17-hour train ride to Shanghai, take another, I don't know, 18-hour train ride to Gwai Lin, hop on a boat, take a ferry here, there.

And it worked. It freaking worked, right? You didn't need a phone. You didn't have a lonely planet? I did. Yeah, that's, that was your Bible. old school. That's the old school iPhone, lonely planet book that you carried everywhere with you. They gave you a couple hotel recommendations and maybe a few things to sight see and then you're

on your own. Hey, I think I had my midlife crisis as about the same age. I think it's a quarter life crisis or maybe a third life crisis. You know, after law school, Bill, I moved to Montana. I worked a ranch. I worked for a hunting outfitter. I spent a year not necessarily in part in the mountains, in part in the valleys, so some semblance of civilization as well. And I didn't do what you did. And I wonder, as I, you've used the word education. And I don't, from what I understand, you didn't leave your idea of a career behind. You filed those dispatches. So I wonder, was that was that the purpose, education, or was it, I may be honest, part of mine, I had some sense of what I wanted to do. But it was also to be that, honestly, I know it's cliche, but I was doing the thing

where I'm like, I want to find myself. I want to know what it is I want to do and why I'm here. And that happened for me, the same time, at about the age of 25. Yeah. Yeah, I can fully understand that and fully respect that, too. It's part of the necessary process of growing up, right? Maturing and finding out what's life in it for you. I guess for me, look, I put so much blood, sweat, and tears into my job.

I didn't know if I would just kick it to the curb. I didn't want to think that if I do this and I catch malaria in three months, so I'm going to come home without a gig. And I enjoyed the challenge of television. I like the challenge of live. I like meeting deadlines. And I like, you know, poking around and learning things. And so I didn't want to totally give that up.

And that's why I kept the connection up. And it worked out my favor in a big way. And you know, Will, I would say this. I don't know what your Montana experience led you to. And I don't know what Tony Robbins said was the moment in his life where he said, I got to pursue this. And once I get to the end of this experience, I'll be able to do X, Y, and Z. I really didn't know what it would do for me. But I know how it ended up.

And I had no way of seeing that. And I just feel like with that opportunity, I was able to. to walk into CNN and do an audition and write down all these countries that I had been on my own. And that's what they were looking for. And I was 30 years old and they were in desperate need of it. I kind of walked into an awesome opportunity. And I've never looked back. And I just feel so fortunate. I mean, I get to engage people with like, like you and others who have all original thoughts on their own and you want to get involved intellectually and sort of understand things on your terms after you've done the work and you come at it from an educated perspective

and boy I just look at look at the people here at Fox and it's such a pleasure to just pick the brains of really smart people that's honestly my favorite gift well it's my favorite thing about my job is that I get I get to I get paid to continue to learn and I know that sounds hokey but I'm a I'm a curious person by nature I'd be doing this if I wasn't getting paid you know and now I get to learn I get to fall down the rabbit hole of whatever it is I want to learn about and try to add something of value to the consumer of current events hey I want to talk career so 10 years at CNN you move to Fox now At the time you move to Fox Bill, it's no longer necessarily a startup.

It's no longer the – it's still rebellious in the news ecosystem. But I'd say, you know, it's more – it's probably fair to say it's more established. You come over in like 05 or 6. No doubt. A thousand percent. Right? Yeah. Yeah. But I'm curious, not just the why of why you move from CNN to Fox, but how. You know, he was an, I never got to know the man, but he's, I mean, he's a titan in the news media world, Roger Ailes, and I'm sure he had something to do with bringing you over to Fox.

Just give me that story, how you make the move from CNN to Fox. He's from Ohio. I'm from Ohio. You know, you're from Texas, right? I mean, when you hear about people from your home state, you pay a little more attention to him. And I paid attention to him. What I noticed during the election recount of 2000, which was another phenomenal story, Will, you would have loved it, especially with your law background. So we went 37 days without a president, and I remember the night before because Bernie Shaw and Judy Woodruff were our political anchors in Atlanta, and my job was to take over for them at midnight, and I was all jacked up for that because there were going to be some late House seats that are going to break on the West Coast, some Senate seats are going to be decided.

So maybe we get a chance to call the balance of power, even though the presidency will be over. Well, they never got off the anchor desk. So I never got on. And the next day, this producer, Jody Fleissie came up and said, hammer, can you get the Tallahassee? I said, Jody, this thing's going to be over at 5 o'clock. And she said, can you get the Tallahassee? I said, sure. So I was one of the first ones in.

I was the very last one to leave, 37 days in Tallahassee. And, wow, you want to talk about an education, Will? what I noticed during that period and it was a Sunday night and Catherine Harris was certifying the votes this is northern Florida it's November it's December it's chilly there's a mist in the air

it was around the the main area of their state government and we're over there and we've got like 10 people holding signs behind us and they're well behaved and then across the plaza red brick everywhere in Tallahassee in this location. There's people screaming and yelling,

and I asked my producer, say, can you get over there and see what's going on? They came back that said, it's Fox. I see, yeah, what's happening? They're cheering for Bill O'Reilly. I said, oh, and what else? And they're cheering for Sean Hannity, and they're cheering for Shepard Smith.

And I was looking at the ratings every day, and I could see what was happening in real time. And a lot of people think that Fox overtook CNN in 2001 during 9-11. It was actually the year prior when they really started to make a move. And I just thought, you know, they've got such a tremendous lineup. And I'd been at CNN for 10 years. I felt it was time for a change.

And I thought if I could crack that lineup, I think it would be a really good move for me. Stay in New York City, get a different experience under my belt. And I just, what Fox wants you to do is they want you to lean into your personality. A lot of other shops are well-produced, right? They're produced, you've got a rundown, you're going to do this story, this story, and that story. What they want to do at Fox has rip the whole rundown up. And when you do that, you create more of a human moment. And I think if you look across the board at our lineup, that's what you get.

And I was always drawn to that. And that was a big attraction to me. Well, I still, and we have a couple of minutes left together. I still want to hear the how. So I'm going to say this to you, Bill. like, I think the hows are interesting. By the way, the how of how I came from ESPN to Fox is interesting, and it's not a story that I've told, and I don't know when or how I will tell that story.

The how of how I joined ESPN is not interesting, because it is an agent-driven exercise where they see a need and they contact ESPN, and then we have meetings and relationships are established. The how of how I got to CNN and broke into this business is interesting because I sent an email to John Klein, then the press. residents of CNN one night. I guessed it his email address, Bill. I knew it was first name. Last name at Turner.com at the time. And I sent him an email and he responded within 15 minutes and said, I think we should talk. And that's what got me started. So I'm just curious,

was the how for you from CNN to Fox? Is it the standard old, oh, my agent called their agent, you know, or was it you sent ails and message or he reached out to you? The how for me was that I'm going to pack up here, and I had a few opportunities, and this one came up, and I quite literally met with Roger at an Italian restaurant, and we sat there for three hours, and, you know, it's 10, 10 o'clock a night. It was like a Tuesday or Wednesday. I was like, I'm sure you've got to work tomorrow, and I think that's when the, you know, the connection was made, and I, I'm I liked him from the first moment he said hello. I liked how Frank he was.

I kind of liked his attitude. You know, he was, look, Roger at the end of his life got, we all know about the reputation toward the end of his life. And what people who have not met him may not understand is that he was just a flat out funny cat. And he would walk into, you know, We used to have a boardroom on the second floor, and we'd all be gathered there in election nights. And, you know, there's a moment of tension in the room.

We really don't know what's going to happen here. And he would just come in with an anecdote and crack everybody up. And it was always so pitch-perfect. I have one anecdote from what I remember, what I like to share with other people. I was coming up for a contract renewal. So I got all my arguments together, and I wrote him out on a piece of paper. I got ready for my big meeting with Roger. And I walked in there, and I spread out my papers.

And he goes, before we get started, he said, Are you generally happy? I said, generally. I said, generally? Yes, he said, good, because I got a thousand people on the other side of the door, and they want to kill me because they hate me. And if I know that I don't need to worry about you, that's one less person in this building. So, what else you got?

I was like, meeting over. Also a visionary. Last question for Bill Himmer. Everybody's fascinated by, I know I am, your day. find it fascinating that Brian Kielmead has to wake up at 2.30 a.m. And work seemingly until 10 o'clock at night. It's ridiculous. You host a show from 9 to 11 a.m. What is your schedule like? What time do you wake up? 445.

445. 445. In the building at what time? 623. Okay. For 9 o'clock. So that's a lot of hair and makeup for you, Hammer. we do a conference call at 645 with Dana and Charlie our executive producer and then we're done if we're on that phone call at 710 we've gone too long and then it's really how much can you read how fast right how much can you get your how quickly can you get your segments together and then we grip it rip it and go and then you're done and you hit yoga and spin class right I wish. I do like hot yoga. I will not lie. I know you do some exercises. It centers me, man. It just keeps me balanced. So if I get a chance to get there twice a week,

it's a really great week. If I get there once a week, I feel lucky. All right. Keep him centered. Bill Himmer, the host of America's newsroom, right here on the Will Cane Show. Awesome, man. I could go for another half hour with you. I love getting to know you. Thank you for doing this today here on the Wilcane show. Good to be with you, Will. See you real soon in person, okay? Take care, Bill. There he goes. Bill Himmer.

Check him out on America's Newsroom every day, 9 to 11 Eastern Time. The most dangerous man in America, Attorney Crump, Ben Crump says the way to reduce crime is to reduce laws that we have criminalized, in the words of Ben Crump,

black culture. That next on the Will Cain Show. For a limited time at McDonald's, enjoy the tasty breakfast trio. Your choice of chicken or sausage McMuffin or McGruffin or McGruth. riddles with a hash brown and a small iced coffee for five bucks plus tax available until 11 a.m. at participating McDonald's restaurants. Price excludes iced coffee and delivery.

I'm Janice Dean. Join me every Sunday as I focus on stories of hope and people who are truly rays of sunshine in their community and across the world. Listen and follow now at Fox Newspodcast.com. Who will be Trump's pick for vice president? Will it be Vivek Ramoswamy? Will it be Tim Scott? Could it be Ron DeSantis? And I'm canceling your debt.

He might as well hand out tortillas. Buying votes, Joe Biden. That's coming up on the Will Cain show. Streaming live at foxnews.com and on the Fox News YouTube channel. Always on demand. Will Cain Show on YouTube. Hit subscribe. You'll get exclusive content.

You can find past full episodes. or interviews that took place right here on the Will Cain Show and hit subscribe for the audio version at Apple Spotify or at Fox News Podcasts. Late last week, we saw a travesty. We saw an embarrassment. We saw the testimony in Georgia of district attorney Fannie Willis. Fannie Willis is leading up the investigation to Donald Trump in Georgia. She's appointed a special prosecutor, Nathan Wade, and allegations have now

surfaced along with evidence that Nathan Wade, a special prosecutor that she has selected, was in fact someone she was having an affair with, a romantic relationship with. And after paying him $650,000 in fees, also took vacations with Nathan Wade all across. Well, we don't know specifically because Fannie Willis couldn't identify which continents, because she didn't know the definition of a continent. in her testimony last week in Georgia. Her testimony was embarrassing. It was condescending.

She seemed to embody the Dunning Krueger effect. The Dunning Krueger effect is the phenomenon, the psychological phenomenon, that the dumbest among you think they're the smartest among you. She seemed to think that she would get by on her ignorance with condescension, body language, and wearing her dress backwards. It does appear that she might have even had her dress on backwards with the zipper up front. She obfuscated. That's a big word, but it means she just slaughtered every question with an avalanche of words and context. And no, no, no, wait a minute. Now, see, you got to back up

and hammer the judge, the audience, and the cross-examiner with unnecessary information to where honestly at the end, anybody watching, and certainly anybody in the courtroom, we'll just want to go, all right, I quit. Enough. This is, this is a reality show. This is a reality show. This his love is blind. But as part of her testimony, Fannie Williams Willis said that she paid back Wade for all of these lavish trips with cash, and that she always had cash on hand. When asked where that cash originated, she said, my sweat, my hard work. But she did not offer any withdrawal slips from a bank. Where does the cash come from? Who knows? Just have cash. That was defended online by many saying these cross-examiners and these commentators don't understand black culture.

Anyone that understands black culture understands having cash. And that led me to think about and notice the most dangerous man in America, Ben Crump, who's lied on every racial division and crime in this country over the last decade. He lied on on the hands up, don't show. shoot in Ferguson, Missouri. He's lied on, you name it, you name the racial, the racial social justice case involving police shootings. Breonna Taylor, literally, you find the one and you will find a Ben Crump lie in flaming

racial divisions in America. And last week, he appeared on a show on MSNBC where he said the reason that crime rates are higher within black demographics is that. lawmakers have criminalized black culture and that the way to reduce crime is to reduce laws. Listen to this. We can get rid of all the crime in America overnight, just like that. And people ask how, Attorney Crump, change the definition of crime. Of course.

If you get to define what conduct is going to be made criminal, you can predict who the criminal is going to be. It sounds like we're criminal, though. Our existence is criminal. But they made the law to criminalize our culture, to fit up. Black culture. You can do away with crime by doing way with laws overnight and that they have criminalized black culture. Now, I believe that Crump is one of the most dangerous men in America. I would also happily welcome at any point a debate with Ben Crump.

I think he might have not zero. It's not that he has. nothing to say. It's not that he has no contribution to the conversation. It's just that most of the time, those contributions or elements of evidence are distorted into

an insane reality that amounts to a lie. Look, Lucy Cigarettes being illegal to sell. Should that be a law? Probably not. But Crump goes on to talk about not just Lucy Cigarettes, which was part of the Eric Garner case, but he talks about milk cartons in your front yard. He talks about baggy pants. I'm not familiar with a law

criminalizing baggy pants. But he's suggesting that black culture, like the kind described by Fannie Willis apparently, in keeping a hoard of cash, has been criminalized. We should talk about culture for just one moment. Culture is separate from race. A criticism of culture is not a criticism of a race. Race is an intrinsic genetic component. Culture is a collected way of life. And not all cultures are equal. Different cultures produce different outcomes. And each culture has their own virtue and their own vice. Look, this is best illustrated perhaps in Europe. Northern Europe is an industrious culture. German precision, hard work. Southern Europe, a relaxed environment. They're not putting a man on the moon, but they're happily having a

good time on the beaches of Santorini. This is a product of culture. And again, every culture has its virtue and its vice. African cultures have strong ties to community and village. But what has happened clearly in the culture of black America is that crime has taken on an outsized influence, an outsized proportion of the product of black culture. Now, I would love to know from Crumm, which laws would he like to decriminalize? Which laws would you do away with overnight to do away with crime? Is he suggesting that murder and violence and assault and theft are unique to black culture? Is he suggesting that they shouldn't be criminalized?

That you could, that that's a problem with the laws, not with the crime? Underneath whatever little element crump ever offers, he distorts something into an absolute insane reality that is a lie that divides a miracle once again on race. And race and culture seem to be the rip course. that Fannie Willis tried to use in her testimony last week in Georgia. She wanted to hide behind being a woman, being a black woman, and being obstinate and combative and hostile on the witness stand. It was an embarrassment for everyone involved. It was an embarrassment, yes, for Fannie Willis.

It was an embarrassment for the judge in the trial who couldn't control this soap opera, this reality show, this episode of Love is Blind. It was an embarrassment, honestly, for the attorneys cross-examining her who could not find a compelling, I think, could not find a compelling, not that it was easy, but could not find a compelling line of questioning that helped us shine light on the truth. But most of all, it was an embarrassment for Fulton County, Georgia, who elected this woman with this behavior, with these intellectual limitations, with this crime and and corruption, not just as part of her regime, but if I'm to listen to Ben Crump and I'm to listen to Fannie Willis as a feature of her regime, she bragged on the stand that she removed campaign cash to her personal pockets. And she bragged on the stand that she had unaccountable cash stashed wherever she stays.

That to me sounds like you need to be investigated for tax evasion and you need to be investigated for campaign finance violations. That suggests to me what you think is a feature is still a crime in America and hiding behind the culture shouldn't protect one from the crime. An embarrassment was Fannie Willis. Who will be Donald Trump's pick for vice president? We've got five names plus Joe Biden's email that went out today to 100,000 plus Americans. I forgive your debt. That next on the Will Cain Show. Why just survive back to school when you can thrive by creating a space that does it all for you, no matter the size.

Whether you're taking over your parents' basement or moving to campus, IKEA has hundreds of design ideas and affordable options to complement any budget. After all, you're in your small space era. It's time to own it. now at ikea.ca. Who will be Donald Trump's pick for vice president and is forgiving student loan debt like handing out tortillas in Mexico, just buying votes. It's the Will Kane Show streaming live at foxnews.com and on the Fox News YouTube channel. Always on demand.

Go hit subscribe wherever you're watching. Click over to the Will Kane Show, Will Kane show on YouTube. subscribe you can go back and listen to bill himmer and his stories of traveling the globe you can listen to dave portnoy you can listen to tony robbins you can listen to stephen a smith you can listen to rand paul mark wayne mullen any of our interviews where you don't just get the news of the day you might even get a little debate and you might get a little insight into who these people are like senator rand paul as human beings as individuals as rand paul let's bring in now sean davis he's an editor at the federalist and you'll see him frequently on fox

News, and I believe it's his first time here on The Will Cain Show, which I'm excited to have you on, Sean. Thanks for having me, Will. You bet. So listen, last night, Donald Trump gave a town hall with Fox News as Laura Ingram, and he named several individuals who he said are on his short list for Vice President. He said those lists, those names include Tim Scott, Vivek Gramaswamy, Congressman Byron Donald's, South Dakota Governor Christie Noam. And interestingly, perhaps most interestingly, Tulsi Gabbard, former Democrat representative from Hawaii,

and Ron DeSantis, the current governor of Florida. What do you think, Sean? So my wife and I were discussing this the other night, and I actually think the frontrunners are two names that weren't on that list. I think Sarah Huckabee Sanders is absolutely a good option, governor of Arkansas, former White House Press Secretary for Trump. And I think another person no one's mentioned, but who I know Trump is very close to and thinks a lot about is Ben Carson, you know, former brain surgeon, brilliant doctor, ran for president previously unsuccessfully, but I know he and Trump have a close relationship. So I could see him on there as well.

You know, Sean, in the past, this would have been an easier analysis because most presidential candidates look at a vice presidential running mate as what did they bring to my electability hopes? they bring to my ticket? Do they deliver me a swing state like Ohio? Do they deliver me Pennsylvania? The job of the vice president, honestly, is not one that many people are concerned about what will you actually get done being the vice president. But with Donald Trump, it's not as though he's looking, I don't think he is, nor does he need to be looking at any of these candidates as somebody that's going to swing one particular state, because everybody's going to be voting for or against Donald Trump. It's going to make no difference whether or not Christy Gnome is on the ticket.

So what do you think when you bring up Ben Carson, you bring up Sarah Huckabee Sanders, he considers, you know, Tim Scott or Ron DeSantis. What do you think he's looking for? What does he need as a running mate? Well, I think he's looking for somebody he can trust. It's interesting you look back at 2016. He picked Mike Pence, obviously, as someone he thought would allay the concerns of conservative Christians, evangelicals who are worried about, you know,

maybe Donald Trump's stance on abortion, pro-life, religious issues, and Pence was brought in to kind of give them the impression, don't worry, we're good, I'm going to listen to you, I'm not going to screw you over. I feel like he's doing a very different thing this time around, especially after getting burned by Pence at the end of his first term. I think he wants someone who can be a good spokesman, who he can trust, who can help him communicate his message to the country. It doesn't look like he's picking someone who he think is going to be like a paint by numbers, I pick this person, he'll help me get this state. I pick this other person.

He'll help me get that state. You know, Sean, if I'm Donald Trump, I'm sure that he is thinking about the word loyalty. And if I'm Donald Trump, I'm thinking about some version of loyalty. Because, look, I think it's just an undeniable fact. If we look at the past of Donald Trump's hiring practices, he's got a lot of people out there who say negative things about him, who have worked for him. both in business and in politics. And I'm looking at this list of people, and I'm thinking, you have to take past as a potential predicate for the future.

Does this relationship last four years? And how does it end? And I think maybe that's not the most important thing in establishing one more four-year term. But you sit there and go, if I look at Bill Barr or Mike Pompeii or anybody else who's had negative things to say about Donald Trump, am I running a risk? any of these names at the end of two years, three years, four years, they join the course of people who are anti-Trump. Yeah, that's a real concern. I would use a different word, a different characteristic I think he needs to look for, which isn't loyalty. Obviously, loyalty is important

in politics. I think he needs to get someone who has a spine, because that's actually the thing that seems to determine whether you stand up to the regime, to the onslaught, to the law fair, is whether someone has a spine and is willing to stand up and say, no, I'm not backing down. You can extort me and blackmail me and attack me and cancel me all you want. I'm not going anywhere. That's what Donald Trump needs, I think, a lot more than a typical yes man, which is what I think of when I think of loyalty in politics. He needs someone who understands that the machine is out to destroy this country, and he needs that person to have the spine and the fortitude to stand up to it and help him take it down. Do you think any of the five, setting aside the two names that you gave us, do you think any of the five, is it five that I've named?

It's Byron Donald's, Christy Nome, Vivek Ramaswamy, Tim Scott, Tulsi Gabbard, and Ron DeSantis. Do you think any of those satisfy your requirement of a spine when it comes to Donald Trump? Yeah, I'm going to throw two out immediately, not because of any sort of like personal characteristics or their politics. Byron Donald's and Ron DeSantis are both Florida. residents along with Donald Trump. Constitution precludes the VP and president on the same ticket from being from the same state. So unless one of the moves or Trump takes his residency back to New Jersey, which I don't see happening, I think we can discount those two, even though I think they're great. I think Byron Donald's is a great spokesman, a great congressman. I think

DeSantis is the best governor in the country. I look at Christy Nome. I saw that the way she caved and cowered when she took up and vetoed a bill in South Dakota to protect. women in sports, a bill that she had promised to sign, that she had vowed to sign and then caved under pressure from the business community. I don't think she has much of a spine. Tulsi might. I think she's pretty impressive. Tim Scott, I think the jury's still out on him. I haven't actually seen him do much really at all in the Senate. I haven't seen him stand up for much. He's an articulate that guy, he gives a great message about the importance of freedom and liberty in this country. But I haven't really seen anything from him politically that would suggest he has what

it takes to stand up to what the machine is going to do to anyone who sides with Donald Trump in this next election. So that leaves about process of elimination, Tulsi Gabbard, and I would assume you didn't address him, but Vivek Gramiswamy as two that might satisfy those requirements. Real quick, I want your perspective. on this, Sean, and we'll move on from vice presidency. Ron DeSantis and Vake Ramoswamy, setting aside that Ron DeSantis can't. I also think that they would disqualify themselves to some extent because, and I've had this conversation with several of my co-hosts and friends, Donald Trump doesn't want to

spend the next four years with the spotlight and the conversation being on the man who could potentially take over after those four years. And Ramoswamy and DeSantis come with some vision of the future, meaning they're not just there to be vice president, but also to begin. their own platform for one day being president. And that probably wouldn't be appealing to Donald Trump. Yeah, it's kind of similar to the George W. Bush model where he picked someone who he knew was never going to run for president, wasn't going to upstage him, and he picked Dick Cheney.

I mean, that's definitely an issue. Donald Trump likes being the star. It's his show. It's his name at the top of the ticket. I will tell you one thing that I loved about Vivek Ramoswamy talking about a spine, understanding the problems and going after the machine, that guy ran the presidential campaign, even though he had no chance against Trump. And the reality is this cycle, no one was going to beat Trump. He's the only one who actually went out there and correctly diagnosed the problem,

which was the media and the regime, all the censorship, the fact that our country is crumbling. It's a wash in crime. Our borders are being overrun. But Vague was the only one who actually seemed to understand and articulate who the enemy was, which it was Democrats in the left. So because of that, because he was so great giving press conferences, he was so great in the debates, I actually think I could see Trump picking him because of how forceful and how convincing he was in those debates. You know what's fascinating about that, Sean. And I mean, I don't think, I think I'm still, I think we all are still getting our arms around. You're in media, I'm in media. So sometimes I wonder, do we pay too much attention to the media, you know, meaning people out

there lived their lives. They go to work. They go to church. They have their own ambitions. But I'm only trying to put myself in check. I still come back to, I don't think we have our full arms around how much we're all being manipulated intellectually. Like our perception of reality and the extent to which we've been censored over the past, it's approaching probably six or seven years now, but probably starting at about 1516, the censorship industrial complex has warped. That sense of reality we walk around with, with our ambitions and our families and our jobs. And I don't, to your point of the vague, I don't think we still have a good idea of how impactful that is for people not just in the media, but everyday Americans in how we live our lives.

I want to ask you about this, and it's not divorced from that conversation. Russia, Russia, Russia. Actually, it's a great transition because it's a great illustration of this point of censorship. Most people understand that the Russia collusion investigation was not just much of a nothing burger, but a sci-op planted in reverse to create an environment to interfere with Donald Trump. And it's been largely on the evidence just dismissed away. But that has not broken through to that average American understanding things as they walk around. And Democrats are pretending like none of that's ever happened.

You know, Nancy Pelosi this week brought it up again. She brought up Russia collusion and Trump's relationship with Vladimir Putin and Jamie Raskin said he's in love with Vladimir, said Trump is in love with Vladimir Putin, Democratic Congressman Raskin. And I mean, then this week as well, Sean, we get the news that the FBI's charged this whistleblower on how much Hunter Biden got from Burisma. Hunter and Joe Biden is informant on what they got from Burisma with lying and said, was now connected to Russian intelligence. And it just occurred to me, we're probably running 2016 again, Sean. Like, we're doing Russia. Russia is going to be a big part of 2024. Oh, it is. And it all goes back to 2016. The 2016 election fundamentally broke the brain of the average Democrat in this country, certainly in Washington. They couldn't hope with the fact

that Hillary sucked and everyone hated her and Donald Trump beat her. And they had to create this new reality in their minds to help give them. some sort of comfort that they didn't lose because their candidate was awful. No, no, no, they lost because Russia stole it. And ever since, we've had a collective obsession with Russia in this country, which is little more than a rundown global gas station. Okay, we're not talking about China here. Russia doesn't own the world's manufacturing capacity, doesn't own a bulk of the world's

debt. It's just a rundown third world gas station. And yet we've decided to build our entire foreign policy around it, all because Hillary Clinton couldn't find Wisconsin on a map and go visit. it even one time in 2016. And because that playbook for them actually worked post-2016, it helped to destroy and cripple Trump's presidency, they've gone right back to it. And the reason they've gone to it, and this gets back to your early point about censorship,

is because they know the facts don't actually matter. They can make reality whatever they want it is by just repeating the lie long enough because they control the information apparatus, the media apparatus, and the censorship apparatus in this country. And so I'm so glad you brought up the censorship thing because it is truly. an existential threat to this country. You cannot have a republic the way we have it, the way ours was designed without a robust First Amendment. It gives us freedom of press and freedom of speech. And we have the illusion of that now, but we don't have the reality of it, which I actually

think is a lot more dangerous than just having a straight propaganda regime. If you know all you're getting every day is lies straight from the government, like what people got through Pravda and the Soviet Union, you're able to automatically filter it and everyone knows how to filter it. What we have here is the exact same nonsense coming from state run media, but we have the veneer of a free press. And I think that is so much more dangerous. The left is basically doing what you do as a pet owner when you have to give your dog medicine. You stick it up in a little ball of cheese and he doesn't know he's getting medicine. He thinks he's just getting cheese. That's what the censorship apparatus is doing to us. It's making us think we're getting news

when actually what we're being fed over and over again is lies that are helpful to the regime. And it's all being done, Sean, I think what we're going to, hopefully we will look back with some clarity or understanding, but it's all being done under the banner of saving democracy. It's not just the, I don't think saving democracy is just the cover. I don't think it's just what they're using as the umbrella to hide all of the censorship. I think they truly believe it's the justification. Like, you know, they engaged, the government, the government controlling information, global. has been happening for decades, right, and under the banner of saving democracy, whether not that's Italian elections to avoid communist being elected in Italy. They've been manipulating minds globally under the banner of saving democracy for decades. The difference now is, and whether or not they believe it or not, it is the cover, they have to do it domestically to save democracy.

Yeah, and I think it's important to realize that. that the left, especially those in power, they don't use words the way you and I use words. We use words because we believe they have fixed meanings. They are able to transmit certain bits of information that the person on the other side knows. They know what those words mean. The left uses words as weapons.

Words have no fixed meaning. They're not defined uniformly over time. Words are things that they can use now into manipulating you so they can get more power to do what they want. So when the left comes out and says, we have to take out Trump to save our democracy. They're actually saying, we need to prevent you from voting for who you want,

which is actual democracy, so we can protect our power. So I would challenge your listeners to do the following. Every time they hear a Democrat or a member of the left, say the word, our democracy, or the phrase, our democracy, replace it with our power. And that's actually,

that honestly conveys what they're trying to do. They are willing to destroy democracy, which is the ability of us to vote for, who we want to in order to save their own power. And that's what this is all about. Finally, I want to talk about this with you. By the way, phenomenal, phenomenal answer. Sean, I want to talk to you about this last story. So Joe Biden today has sent out an email where he is going to tell roughly 113,000 Americans, I have canceled your debt. It is the student loan borrowing program he's talked about. It's 133,000, 153,000 student loan borrowers totaling

1.2 billion. There's a few requirements in there. I think you have to have at this point borrowed $12,000 or less and continue to make payments for 10 years and that you will have your student loan debt forgiven. And it will be followed, as I said, by an email where he is saying is taking credit for, I have canceled your debt. You know, Sean, I analogized this online a moment ago, like Mexico has a long history of buying votes. The political parties of Mexico's can show up in line and hand out grocery bags as you're waiting to vote. There's an article from 2000, I believe it's 18, talking about the big currency in the Mexican elections was tortillas. And it's just there's something clear about that is like, vote for me. You get your

supply of tortillas. You get, you know, buying votes. I don't see a distinction, Sean. I don't see a difference. I'm getting rid of your student loan debt. I'm canceling your debt. I'm canceling your debt. By the way, there's an election in November. Yeah, there is no difference. It's a straight up bribe and it's completely illegal because recall that he tried to do this a year or two ago and he got smacked down by the Supreme Court. They said, you're not allowed to do this. There's no law allowing you to do this. Congress didn't say you had the authority to do this. You're not allowed to go and effectively hand out money from the Treasury without laws from Congress allowing that. And he looked at

the Supreme Court's decision and he gave him the middle finger. And he's continued to do it for years. This is just the latest effort. It's an illegal effort to buy votes. It's a legal effort using his power to rig elections. And it's, I wish I could say I don't get shocked anymore, having been in this business for 20 years, watching this kind of corruption. But I'm shocked. I'm shocked at how brazen and how in your face it is.

Because they know that no matter what happens with the courts, the Supreme Court will take this up again and they'll reject it. And that'll be two or three years from now. and by then he'll have been able to buy the votes he wants to get the election win that he wants. It's disgusting and it's not something that's supposed to happen in a free country. Sean, I just want to get your reaction to this. I know mine. I saw some of the responses on social media to me saying this is no different than what's happening in Mexico, saying, oh, yeah, well, this is a campaign promise, and it's no different than giving tax cuts.

Tax cuts is also a vote-buying scheme. Anything a politician promises is a vote-buying scheme. I know my response to that, but I want to hear your response, Sean. Yeah. Tax cuts have to be passed into law by Congress. Article 1, Section 9, no money may be drawn from the Treasury, but in consequence of appropriations by law. There was no appropriation doing this. There's no law doing it. It's why it's literally lawless. And I get that some people hate the idea of tax cuts because it makes them shudder at thinking people being able to spend their own money as opposed to it being confiscated by government. But tax cuts are actually enacted by Congress, signed in law by president. None of that happened here. I love the point about Congress. Mine is what you started to illuminate there. You know, telling me I can keep more of my money is not the same thing as promising to take my money and give it to something else to absolve them of an obligation that they willingly signed up for. One is not vote buying. It's like, nice shop there. Hope you get to keep it. You know, like I get to keep my money. You taking it is the confiscation versus, hey, give me some of his money. That's the vote.

buying, you know, and not to mention, as you point out, one is passed through an act of Congress. Sean Dave's great to have you on the show today. Let's do it again, man. Co-founder and CEO of the Federalist, check out him, check him out. Thanks, Sean. Thank you, Will. All right. All right, that's going to do it for me today here on the Will Cain show. Again, go subscribe at YouTube or at Apple or at Spotify. Make sure this shows up in your stream anytime you log on to one of those devices or hop on over to foxnews.com every day at 12 o'clock Eastern Time live to watch the Will Cain Show. I'll see you again next time. Listen to ad-free with a Fox News podcast plus subscription on Apple Podcast, and Amazon Prime

members, you can listen to this show, ad-free, on the Amazon music app. Hey, I'm Trey Gowdy host of the Trey Gowdy podcast. I hope you will join me every Tuesday and Thursday as we navigate life together and hopefully find ourselves. a little bit better on the other side. Listen and follow now at foxnewspodcast.com.