Will Cain Country - Is The Rock Running For President?

Episode Date: January 24, 2024

Story #1: Dwayne 'The Rock' Johnson addresses President Trump’s massive UFC ovations, relief efforts for the people of Maui, his presidential ambitions, and whether or not he will fight Roman Reigns at the upcoming WrestleMania.  Story #2: Why is Chief Justice John Roberts so unpredictable and unreliable to conservatives? A conversation with former Assistant United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York and FOX News Contributor Andy McCarthy. Story #3: What did former UN Ambassador Nikki Haley win in New Hampshire? Democrats.    Tell Will what you thought about this podcast by emailing [e-mail]   Follow Will on Twitter: @WillCain Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For a limited time at McDonald's, enjoy the tasty breakfast trio. Your choice of chicken or sausage McMuffin or McGrittles with a hash-brown and a small iced coffee for $5.00 plus tax. Available until 11 a.m. at participating McDonald's restaurants. Price excludes flavored iced coffee and delivery. One. Dwayne, the Rock Johnson on Donald Trump, Maui, would he run for president and will he fight Roman Reigns? Two, why is Chief Justice of the Supreme Court John Roberts so unpredictable, so unreliable, a conversation with former federal prosecutor and writer for National Review, Andy McCarthy? Three, what did Nikki Haley win in New Hampshire?

The answer? Democrats. It's the Will Cain Show streaming live at Fox News.com on YouTube at the Fox News YouTube channel. Always on demand in video on YouTube at the Will Cain Show. Go find the Will Cain Show where you can see full ever. episodes and clips of the greatest of the Will Cane show and make sure you hit subscribe. And then it's always available in audio format on podcast, wherever you get your audio entertainment at Apple, Spotify, or at Fox News podcast. Make sure you subscribe. Leave a comment either during this show live or underneath any of our videos or again, wherever you get your audio entertainment and

if you feel it's so deserved, leave us a five-star review and you will make your way perhaps right into the Will Kane show. You can see the moment. I can see the moment when you put them on skates, the rock. It's when you ask a question that is unpredictable. Celebrities are very good at predicting questions of developing wrote answers, and I'm not here to pretend like I've reinvented the art of interviewing. Most celebrities have already been asked everything that's going to be asked of them,

and they are never at a loss. But granted, 15 minutes on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange to talk to W.W.E. President Nick Kahn and Global Superstar Dwayne the Rock Johnson, I could see the moment in his eyes when he was on ice skates, when he didn't have an answer prepared, when he wasn't canned. No, it wasn't about why he endorsed Joe Biden in 2020. I don't happen to believe that everything. in life has to be about politics. Not every person gets boiled down to how they vote or who they endorse. When I rank the top five things most interesting about the rock, who he likes for president

didn't make my top five, probably didn't make my top ten. No, it was when I asked Dwayne his biggest failure and then followed up with his biggest insecurity. You know, again, on the floor of the New York, stock exchange as is want to do in the style of the Will Kane show. I want to come away from a conversation learning something, knowing something, something valuable for me, something valuable for you, something valuable to take from someone from humble beginnings who rises not just a global stardom, but in building an empire. And everybody loves to sing their praises and champion their own success, but the most of the real utilitarian lessons are in their failures. And that was the moment when he was on skates. You'll hear that moment coming up in just a moment here on the Will Cain

show in our extended, uncut, unedited interview with president of WWE, Nick Con, and Dwayne the Rock Johnson. What exactly did Nikki Haley win over in New Hampshire? Well, she didn't win the primary. Donald Trump won the primary in New Hampshire, 54 to 43, an 11-point victory for Donald Trump. He becomes, I believe, the first Republican nominee since Gerald Ford to win both Iowa and New Hampshire. Those states normally don't walk in lock step when choosing a president. He's also won New Hampshire three times in a row in a primary for presidency. But a lot of the early polling suggested he was going to be up 20 points on Nikki Haley.

And the final results are a victory, a resounding victory. It's absurd in politics that somehow we can start talking about 11 points as a disappointment. But how did it go from a prediction of 20 points to a reality of 11? And the answer to that is the only thing that it seems that Nikki Haley managed to win was Democrats. Let me read you this from Fox News voter surveys, exit polling, on the results in New Hampshire. New Hampshire has an open primary system. Vast majority of New Hampshire voters are independents or unaffiliated. And if an unaffiliated voter before October 6th measured themselves, marked themselves down,

not as a Democrat or not as a Republican, but as an independent, they could vote in either primary. And many chose to do so. In the Granite state, unaffiliateds made up slightly than half of the electorate, 47%. 47% of those that voted in New Hampshire described themselves as unaffiliated. Of those voters, they broke for Haley by 26 points, 62% to 32%. Just over half of unaffiliated voters considered themselves Republicans. The remainder generally identified as independence or Democrats. Twenty percent of these unaffiliated voters would have, in the past, described themselves as Democrats.

I want you to listen to these interviews, courtesy of MSNB and CNN. We'll walk through them one of a time. And you can just hear from two of these voters who cast a vote for Nikki Haley. First, this is a voter on MSNBC. Listen. Who did you vote for and why? Yes, so thank you. I voted for Nikki Haley, and it was certainly a strategic vote.

I think the DNC is fairly resolute in their nomination for Joe Biden. And while I wouldn't vote for her in a general election, particularly on our differences with climate change solution, a woman's right to bodily autonomy or incarceration rates, I think a vote for Nikki Haley helps diminish Trump's influence in the RNC. and their nomination, but does also vote towards democracy. And Christian is emblematic of so many conversations that I've had here throughout the day. Christian's supporter of

the climate change agenda, of a woman's right to choose of the always proverbial quote unquote defense of democracy and saw that as a vote, not for Nikki Haley, but against Donald Trump. Now on CNN, they made it more pointed. I want you to see

the value of a vote. These votes that helped narrow the gap for Nikki Haley? Because the question is, does that Democrats, though, you want to win over to win a general election? But that myth is put to bed in this interview on CNN. Nikki Haley. And why did you vote for Nikki Haley? It's a vote against Trump. I think it would be better to have her against Biden in the elections, then it would be Trump and her. Do you consider yourself generally, independent, Republican, or Democrat? So when you undeclared, you voted for Nikki Haley. If it was Nikki Haley against Joe Biden in the general election, who are you voting for?

Joe Biden. There you go. Once it comes down to Nikki Haley versus Joe Biden, he votes for Joe Biden. When it comes to actual Republican voters, Donald Trump outpaced Nikki Haley 70% to 20% to 20%. to 28%. Of the actual voters that would matter, who would vote for Nikki or for Donald Trump for president, he outpaced her 70% to 28%. I saw some of the Fox News voter analysis. I found it incredibly fascinating. For the second state in a row, New Hampshire, following Iowa, immigration is far away the number one issue 41% said immigration was their number one issue economy came in second at 31%

foreign policy a distant third at 8% voters keep saying economy and immigration the number one thing they're looking for in a candidate far and away the top quality 95% mental fitness seems to be a direct indictment of Joe Biden. When asked about abortion, almost 96% said they thought it should be either sometimes legal, 33%, or always legal, 63%. And when it comes to Ukraine, it's basically a 50-50 proposition for Republicans to continue to financially support Ukraine in their war against Russia. I saw Nikki Haley on Fox and Friends pushing back on Steve Ducey and Brian Kilmead and Ainsley Earhart.

The line that Nikki Haley and her Sarah get John, or rather Chris Sununu, the governor of New Hampshire, keep using is the word coronation. It seems to be this idea, and they're certainly putting it into words that the political elite have decided that the nominee will be Donald Trump and that only two states have voted. And therefore, why would we have this coronation? Well, let me first express a bit of sympathy with the idea that two states set the path for the presidency. I think we should have single-day voting. Every state, every individual voting in person, election day. Some exceptions made for those that can't leave their home for mail and balloting, not for COVID. I think that we should allow every state to speak almost simultaneously in how they would pick a president.

I do think there's too much emphasis on New Hampshire and Iowa. But this is not a coronation. It's a joke to listen to Sununu and Haley talk about political elites coronating Donald Trump. The political elites, anyone basically who is in a titan of industry, who is in the 1% has basically cast their money and their voice and their vote behind Nikki Haley. Donald Trump represents a populist movement. And what you're watching in Iowa and in New Hampshire is maybe the second inning of a nine-inning ballgame. The runs are on the board. It's not a coronation to say, hey, it's a lot to a little.

I don't see a path for you to batch your way out of this through the remaining six, seven innings. Now, the game isn't over. That may be a fair point to be made, but it's not a coronation for Joe Buck to look up at the scoreboard and go, wow, the Rangers really putting it on the diamond backs here early in the third inning. That's what's happening, not a coronation. It is a blowout right now. Donald Trump over Nikki Haley.

I want to show you something, by the way, taking place in real time. It's instructive about the present. It's instructive about the past. instructive about the future. How do you create misinformation? How do you create disinformation? There is a Twitter handle called the intellectualist. Humble handle, the intellectualist. It grabs video from really one of the biggest liars in media, Aaron Rupar, who I think works for Vox. And it grabs a video of Donald Trump's speech last night.

And it's characterized with a headline and a heading as follows. Trump threatens Nikki Haley. He says if she doesn't drop out, she'll end up under investigation for stuff she doesn't want to talk about. And in the comments underneath that post, oh, this man is terrible. Can you believe the things that come out of his mouth? He's threatening Nikki Haley. And then that is cemented. It's repeated ad nauseum.

And people walk up to you on a cocktail party and say, can you believe Donald Trump threatens Nikki Haley? It's the same thing that was done with, for example, one of literally dozens of examples with very fine people. That is disinformation. Donald Trump never called white supremacists very fine people. And he did not threaten Nikki Haley. Haley, I want you to see this as a great illustration of how you create disinformation.

Here's the actual speech from Donald Trump. Just a little note to Nikki. She's not going to win. But if she did, she would be under investigation by those people in 15 minutes. And I could tell you five reasons why already. Not big reasons. A little stuff that she doesn't want to talk about. But she will be under investigation within minutes.

minutes, and so would Ron have been, but he decided to get out. He decided to get out. Now, Vivek, I don't think, would be at all because he's perfect, right? And Tim Scott, I know, would never, that's no chance. Now, he is talking about the thing that we all fear that our political system has been weaponized, that there's a deep state that is in cahoots with the Department of Justice and the FBI that will ensure that any candidate that stands in the way of the greater agenda will be burdened under lawfare, under investigation.

He's not saying he would investigate Nikki Haley. He's warning Nikki Haley, and for that matter, Ron DeSantis, that were they to be the nominee as a Republican, they like him would be the target of investigations. But that is boiled down into disinformation that Donald Trump threatens Nikki Haley. Remember that when you're told a three-word characterization, when you're told a paraphrase, when you're even shown a clip out of context.

Remember that every time these tools are used to solidify in your mind. Maybe something that you already believed or maybe something that's easy to believe, but something that is definitely false. Remember that if you want the truth. I like to pursuing some truth on a personal and professional level with Dwayne, Rock Johnson. So let's get to our interview as story number one. All right, Dwayne, Rock. I said, what do I call you? I call you, Dwayne. I call you the Rock. He said, now that I own it, I can call you the Rock. Yes, I own it now. You can call me the Rock.

All right. Or just Rock. Congratulations on that, by the way. Thank you, man. I appreciate it very much. It's a big moment for you personally and obviously for the company, TKO. A very big moment for me personally, big moment for my family, but big moment for us. I think Nick and I as partners with TKO2 as well. It's a big announcement today. the board, some of the other things that were in my deal too as well, but also the Netflix deal and showcasing the power of that and what that could be, especially for a business that I love, I know that Nick loves, in this world of WWE and professional wrestling.

Nick, why is it so important to bring in The Rock? Dwayne Johnson, the Rock, is one of one, as you and the rest of the world, I believe, knows. So to have him back into the WWE family in a meaningful way, he's always been part of the family, but to have him back focus on us. It can only mean a lot for our fans, our shareholders, and the wrestlers who are currently with WWA. Dwayne The Rock brings up Netflix. Huge moment, live streaming on Netflix, a first for Netflix. What does that mean for the future of, for example, Raw?

Will that stay on Monday night? Will that look for another night where there's no NFL? Well, look, we always try to be the first at everything. If you look at some of the things that TKO has done, the UFC ESPN Plus, If you look at Dwayne Johnson, becoming the leading man, not only in film, but in television, starting his own tequila company, monetizing that in an extremely lucrative way, energy drink with Zowa. Across the board, first of a kind. In terms of what we're doing with Netflix, the plan right now is Mondays. Monday Night Raw, it's an institution.

At the same time, we have 10 months to figure it out with our new partners as to what night they think will be best. So, Dwayne, obviously this is a big. deal, they're excited to have you on board, the first real step, the first real big thing can be WrestleMania. Are you going to fight Roman Raines? We're talking about that right now. I'd like to consider myself a long gamer and a builder. So the idea of going up against Roman Raines and creating if we were to do something like that quite possibly, and I mean disrespectfully, of all the other WrestleMania is before us, and Keep in mind, Will, as you know, I was born into the wrestling business with my grandfather and my dad.

My grandfather, for your audience who liked this, wrestled for Vince McMahon Sr. Back when it was called the WWF, my dad came along in the 80s, Rocky Johnson, and here I come along. So I think with all the success and the buildup of all the wrestlers in the past, if we were to do something like that, we could possibly put on the biggest WrestleMania of all time. So, short answer and the long answer is we're figuring it out. You know, Nick brought up all the different evolutions of your career, all of which, at least when you zoom out and look at it in retrospect, have been successes. You know, you from the business side, the football side, the wrestling side, the movie stardom, a lot of different people have tried to evolve to change their careers. Not all of them have met your success. Why has it worked for you?

Well, a few reasons. And also keep in mind, Will, is the successes are always. the ones that are the most loudest and they are the ones that get magnified. No one really talks about the losses but you have to take the hits in the way that I have over the years. I always like to say that it's the times that I failed is the thing that really started to create this chip on my shoulder that has allowed me to drive for success. So over the years I would say if I would point to one thing, I think it's a combination and a convergence of my own ambition, my own desire to put in the hard work with my own two hands.

but perhaps more importantly than that is surrounding yourself the right people who share the same ambitions who I always like to say Nick and I have talked about this hey that looks like an amazing North Star over there we should head in that direction what do you think let's head in that direction

we don't know how we're going to get there yet but let's have faith and let's surround ourselves with the right people and in this case of course it's Mark it's Ari it's all the guys at TKO and so I would point to that can I add one thing I know is a question to Dwayne but what what I've noticed in knowing Dwayne for his

significant period of time is once you've been really, really hungry, it's hard to be really, really full. And I think with Dwayne, starting where he started, which was not in the easiest of places, and building what he's built, the failures come with the successes. So building off of that, number one. Number two, perhaps more important than any of this, are you coming to WrestleMania this year? Is that an invitation? That's an invitation. I'll be there. All right, with your kids. With you, with Dwayne, I'll be there. We'll see if he's in the ring or on the We'll see. You heard that, Fox. No, I really like what you mentioned, and I think I was almost alluding to that.

It's easy to see the successes in retrospect and when you zoom out, and I'm glad you brought up failure. It's hard to see your failures. I understand the humble beginnings. I understand the hunger. What is your biggest failure? Oh, Will. We need to open up a bottle of tequila now and talk about this. That's another invitation? That's another invitation. You heard it again, Fox. I think they're all collective. I think over the years, you know, and oftentimes it happens when we fail at something. Not only does it define you, but you don't quite know, or at least I'm speaking for myself now,

you don't quite know how important that failure is in that moment because you're in the vacuum and you're in the echo chamber where it's the voices in your head and all the insecurities and doubts, they all creep up on you and you're like, man, I don't know if I'm ever going to get out of this thing. But then years later, once you're out of it and you are on the other side and hopefully you or everybody out there has achieved a little bit of success, you can look back and realize, oh man, that was really important. So because you asked a specific question, which was great, I think I have a specific answer here that I think your audience might appreciate. I worked for years to make it to the NFL. That was my dream. Even though I grew up in the world of pro wrestling and keep in mind, well, back then, pro wrestling was not a publicly traded.

company like it is today. It wasn't the global juggernaut that it is today. It was localized, paycheck to paycheck, and I always say had it not been for the grace of God in the universe, Mickey Rorke and the wrestler, that's my family. And that would have been my family had I not had the ability to take care of them. So for me, wrestling never represented that's massive success. That's where I need to go. It was always pro football. And I thought, if I can make it to the NFL, then I can buy my parents their first home. I can be the first one to go to college. I can have a little bit of money more than seven bucks. And that never happened for me. And so I felt at that time, when I didn't make it to the NFL, I went up to the CFL. I played for what I call as long as a ham

sandwich, and then I got cut. But when I got cut, I had to move back in with my parents. That's when I had seven bucks in my pocket. And you realized back then, making it to the NFL was the best thing that never happened. I didn't realize it back then, but I realized it back then, but I realized that today. We've talked about this. Making it to the NFL's best thing that never happened because it gave me that chip and it gave me that drive. You were going to say? I appreciate that answer. Truly, that's a specific answer and I believe the authenticity of that answer. You said something else and I know we have 15 minutes together on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange, but you've said something that I'll have to follow the curiosity. Well, we got nothing but time

and money down here. You brought up in those moments of failure that that's when you face those insecurities. You look, anybody that sees you, first of all, everybody thinks they know you. I feel like I know, and we just met. But they also see you exude so much confidence. It's fascinating to think about you having a moment of insecurity. What is your biggest insecurity? Oh, man. Well, now we start talking about insecurities and connected to mental health, connected to depression. As we all go through that stuff, I was just having a conversation 30 minutes ago with a young lady here on the floor, and she was talking about her own son going through mental health. So that's something that we all go through. I'm an advocate for

especially ask dudes to talk about it because we're generally not wired to talk about it. I can't tell you how many times I've told Nick, come on, man, tell me more. Tell me more. Tell me more. I would ask Nick the same question, but I don't think there's any insecurities in Nick Con. No, there's plenty. There's plenty. Just like everyone else. There's doubts that I have to get through all the time. I promise you. You know, one of the things that I've obviously success at much lower levels, but understand a lot of friends who've achieved success. There's a fascinating thing that happens when you achieve something,

Maybe even a moment like today, and that's not to take away from today's moment, but you arrive at a moment and you say, man, look what I've done, and yet somehow I'm unimpressed with myself. Oh, man. And then you set the bar further. This is part of that hunger. You want something more. Look, Dwayne, a lot of people talk. You've talked at various times about what comes next for you. Obviously, you've had the conversations about president. What is next for you? Where will you set the bar next? Well, I want to acknowledge what you just said, because I love that. And we've talked about this idea of you never arrive. And I think a lot of us are wired in that way, whether it's really vocal or internal, but this idea of, I don't know if I'm really satisfied, you reach the North Star,

you finally get there and you think, hey, I'm on top of the mountain. This is great. I think there's more mountain. And when you look around, I think there's more to do. So you never really arrive, and I think that continues to drive that hunger. What's next for me is I'd like to think that I'm a builder, Will. I like to build stuff. Sometimes they build greatly.

Sometimes they don't. I love partnering up with Nick. I've known Nick. By the way, we go way back. My grandmother was running a small wrestling promotion in Hawaii back in the early 80s. And we were running around as kids back there. So we go way back. So this idea of building, and that's what's next to me for me.

So the idea of building with Nick, with Ari, with Mark Shapiro over at TKO, that's exciting to me because it all connects back to something. that's in my blood, this world of wrestling. You and I share something in common. I didn't know that Nick and I do is... It's like looking in the mirror every time. Yeah, in all the shallow and deep ways. No, but you and I share something in common,

and I didn't know that Nick and I did as well, but that is I have a deep connection in love for Hawaii, specifically Maui, specifically West Maui. I grew up going to Lahaina every summer, and I've been so touched by this audience. We raised the fund. We raised $2.5 million. We're doing $12,000 grants.

We've hit several hundred families. Fantastic. And I know that you and Oprah did something as well. So first, let me start with this. What's an update on your fund, how it's reaching the people of Lahaina? Well, first of all, we are all connected to the Hawaiian Islands, and I love that. Thank you for sharing that with me. So you're Ohana in many ways.

So the update on the People's Fund of Maui is proud to tell you this. At the end of January, we would have delivered over $60 million to over 8,000 survivors, which, you know, those are my people. Those are our people, just as Americans. And the tragedy that they went through is unimaginable. And as you know, we know, and the world knows, they're still going through it. And the crazy world of news, how it cycles fast and out, our job was to make sure that we continue to take care of them

and to do our best to make sure that it was top of mind for a lot of people. So over $60 million, $8,000 survivors. It's amazing. It was very, very special. And thank you for the money you've raised too. You know, like you said, this is going to be something that goes on for years and years. These people are still staying in hotels. They're still homeless in so many ways.

Staying with Ohana in the backhouse. Yes. So this is going to be a continuous need for West Maui. You got blowback. You and Oprah got blowback. Sure. And first of all, I want to be here to be someone that defends you on that. Obviously, that came from a place of a good place in your heart.

And not just that, it's practically achieving. help for people that need it. Sure. And I think I've seen this, you were surprised. You were surprised by that blowback. Yes. I was surprised, but anytime something like that happens where I'm really taken off guard in that way, I always feel it's prudent just to pause for a second and not get pulled into the emotion of it, and I just wanted to pause and try to understand, where is this coming from? And what do you think it was? Did I miss something? Because ultimately, as you said, it came from the right place, and it's what you do. If you attempt to raise money for something that has happened, a tragedy that's happened, you ask people, hey, you want to join? You donate a buck, two bucks, a prayer, good vibes, energy, mana, whatever it is.

I'm not too sure where it came from, but I will tell you this. Once I was sifting through all the noise, and by the way, one of the first calls I got was from Nick saying, hey, just remember where your heart was in the right place as you're doing this coming from Hawaii himself. I did have a moment where I was able to look at a comment and one of the comments said, Hey, Rock, I love you, love that you're raising money, but, man, I don't have anything, paycheck to paycheck, ask someone else, not a good time. It was almost like that.

It was really interesting. So it was something like that, the best thing that we could do is keep trucking forward, keep the heart in the right place, and now we delivered over $60 million. I honestly want to say thank you for that. Oh, thank you for that. I appreciate that.

I appreciate that. What a good effort's been on that. I'm not done just yet. We're going to return to this conversation about what you're going to build. I have to ask more about the presidency. You said, I believe it was to Joe Rogan that one of the political parties had approached you, showed you data which shocked you about how well you do in a run for president. Yes.

Is this something that you will be willing to consider? And by the way, what does it make you think about America that you might be, according to the data, a legitimate candidate for president? I'm honored, and I'm not a politician, never had intentions to be a politician, and, you know, as all this continues to take shape and form, and I get it, especially as we're ramping up into this year, in particular, with the election year, I was honored, I still am honored, and the data was fascinating, I actually got approached by both parties, one after the other, and I said then, as I say now, I'm honored. Thank you. Most important thing I'm doing now is being a daddy to my little girls. I like school drop-offs and I like pickups. And I like that. And I know that if I were ever to go down that road, which I have no intention to, all that goes away. And I don't want that to go away. One last question for you, Nick. So I was at UFC, your sister company, brother's company, at Madison Square Garden. It was when Donald Trump walked in. He has a long history with WWE. What does it mean that both the WWE audience and the UFC audience seem to have such an appreciation or celebration of Donald Trump? Look, we welcome all people at WWE and at UFC, so we don't see ourselves as a political entity in any way, shape, or form. In fact, over the last 10 to 15 years, we've stayed away from that because we want everyone to know that they're welcome here.

Red states we sell out, blue states we sell out, it's not what we're focused on. What we're focused on is the in-ring product and how it delivers to the fans. And if politicians are fans of our product, they're welcome. You have to rock. You want Donald Trump back in the ring at WWE? Listen. I mean, rock against Donald Trump. I don't know how well that would work out in the ring for Donald Trump. How about that ovation he gets, though, when it comes out? Oh, big, big ovation. Trump, yeah. No question. That's what I'm talking about. It's incredible. It's incredible. And I don't know what it says.

That's why I wanted to ask you about your audience and the audience at UFC. I will say this. I think Dwayne was talking about earlier sort of the feelings of insecurity. I think for all of us who come from the outside, I'll speak for Dwayne, I'll speak for you, I'll speak for myself. there's always a bit of imposter syndrome of, well, am I going to get discovered for not being who people might think I am? And then you realize at a certain point, like, no, it's not imposter syndrome. It's just normal life. For our fans, most of them are folks who have earned their way into the seat that they're in. And by the way, that applies to the expensive seats, that applies to the not expensive seats. So I think whenever they see somebody who has a similar

story to them, someone who's built something, who wants to build something, it resonates. Congratulations, guys. This is an awesome day for you. Thanks, man. Thank you. I appreciate that, man. Thank you. That was awesome. There you go.

WWE President Nick Kahn and Global Superstar Dwayne the Rock Johnson. He said a lot of fascinating things in there and just that was the first time I had watched back the interview. Things I wanted to follow up on, the self-reflective nature of my question to him about Maui, obviously something that the blowback hit him. And I think a place of insecurity that he said, I didn't want to lean into that emotion. I didn't want to, in other words, have a visceral reaction. I didn't want to be angry or defensive.

I wanted to take a moment to ask, what did I do wrong? That level of self-awareness is admirable and worthy of a bigger discussion. There's a lot of people that have asked me, oh, Will, how would you associate, why would you associate yourself with the rock? He endorsed Joe Biden. Tell you what, we'll take all those questions. We'll break down that interview. You can join the conversation if you want at 855 Fox Talk.

That's 855-369-8-8-25. That's coming up, but first, why has Chief Justice John Roberts turned out to be so unpredictable, so unreliable? A conversation with former federal prosecutor and writer at National Review, Andy McCarthy. Next on The Will Kane Show. life together and hopefully find ourselves a little bit better on the other side. Listen and follow now at Fox Newspodcast.com. Listen to the all-new Brett Bear podcast featuring Common Ground, in-depth talks with lawmakers from opposite sides of the aisle,

along with all your Brett Bear favorites like his All-Star panel and much more. Available now at Fox Newspodcasts.com or wherever you get your podcasts. The United States Supreme Court says no, you cannot do anything about the southern border, Texas. That is exclusively the constitutional purview of the United States, and a 5-4 decision that drew two Republican-appointed justices, Amy Coney-Barrant and Supreme Court Justice John Roberts. It rises, it raises the question. Why has Chief Justice Roberts become so unpredictable, so unreliable? Welcome back to the Will Cain Show streaming live at Fox News.com and on YouTube at the Fox News page. Always on demand, go subscribe to the Will Cain Show on YouTube or subscribe at Apple, Spotify, or at Fox News podcast to the Will Cain Show.

Joining me now, he's a former federal prosecutor. He's also a writer at National Review. He's been a longtime friend of mine, and I hope in the future a friend of the Will Cain Show. It is Andy McCarthy. Andy, great to see you. Will, it's great to be here. Congratulations on this. This is great.

Thank you so much. You know, if I ask you the question that I've asked my audience and that everyone kind of asks themselves, what's wrong with Chief Justice John Roberts? Why is he so unreliable? You're going to give me an answer that I already know and that I actually understand to some extent believe. I think I understand the judicial philosophy of John Roberts. What I don't understand is this divide. And I'll admit to you that I didn't read the recent opinion to the extent that it was even published in Texas trying to enforce border law at the southern border. But I do know that, you know, Brett Kavanaugh, Neil Gorsuch, Samuel Alito, others saw it differently than both Amy, Connie Barrett and John Roberts.

and there is a consistency that John Roberts sees things differently than the other so-called conservative justice on the Supreme Court. Why? I think, well, he sees his job as something different than, I mean, the fact that you say you think you understand his judicial philosophy, I think indicates, because I also am interested most in the justice's judicial philosophy. philosophy, but I don't think he sees his job as judicial, or at least entirely judicial. Now, let me, I'm going to try to say this to the best perspective from his point of view, but I want it understood. I don't agree with this. I think that the court.

Careful, Andy, analysis has come to mean advocacy. If you accurately diagnose a situation, it's it's perceived that you endorse it. But here in this safe space, understand you are diagnosing the patient, not attempting to cure the patient. Well, and I appreciate that, but I just think that our system intentionally insulates the court from politics because they're supposed to get the law right. And the law isn't always popular, and the proper application of it isn't always popular. And that's why we don't elect them in the federal system, because we want them to be immune from the pressures of politics. Roberts doesn't see his job that way. And for his,

for his point of view, he's living in an environment where the legitimacy of the court is under siege, particularly by Democrats, where there are threats in the air all the time that would actually destroy the institution. This idea of packing the court because not that it's getting the law wrong, but that it's getting the result wrong as far as progressives are concerned. If you pack the court to respond to that so that you could put more progressives on the court and thereby get progressive outcomes rather than whatever the law requires, then the court's not a court anymore. It's just a super legislature. And in fact, it's an even more dangerous legislature than the one we have because we can't vote them out

of office, right? So I think what Roberts tries to do is keep the court to the extent he can out of really hot button cases unless they absolutely have to be in them. And then the other thing he does that drives me crazy is if the law on the central issue in the case, would require a certain result, but that result would be five to four, and yet there's some more narrow kind of attenuated place in the case where he can get seven to two or eight to one or even a unanimous decision. They will dodge the main issue and go for the narrow one so he can project that the court is not a partisan institution, but a collegial institution. And I think the result of that is you get someone like this baker in Colorado who's been in litigation for 11 years because the

court won't decide the main issue in his case. So, and I understand what you have done, and I want to reiterate it for the audience, is you've attempted to understand Roberts, not endorse Roberts, it seems to be what he places it as a higher priority to preserve the legitimacy of the court than to ensure that the decisions of the court are correct. So he's always looking for some political middle ground to keep the court from being controversial. And he's embraced kind of incrementalism. We saw it with Obamacare, which was his most creative turn ever as a justice to pursue not what was legally just, but what was, I don't know, politically palatable. Do you think, Andy, it would be different if he weren't Chief Justice?

Like, if he were not Chief Justice, do you think he would rule like Samuel Alito? No, because I don't think he's a committed originalist. I think he's a right-of-center guy who was, you know, if he were voting, if he didn't have administrative responsibilities, and he would just, like, what's the law say? I think conservatives would be pretty happy with him. He would come out for a position of judicial restraint and textualism. I wouldn't call him an originalist, but I think he would have fealty to the things that we think are important

in terms of tenets of how you go about the job of judging disputes. in the job that he's in now, Will, I think, like for example, on this immigration case, which is what you asked me about at the beginning, the reason you didn't see a decision is because there isn't one. The court hasn't ruled on the merits of that case. And this goes to what I think Roberts does a lot, which is he tries to keep the court out until they have to absolutely be in the case. In this instance, the Fifth Circuit is actually dealing with that case. and they've agreed to deal with it on an expedited basis. So that litigation is humming along. Now, what they did, which I think was wrong, is the lower courts, given the catastrophe that we have on the border, as an emergency measure to freeze things, said the federal government cannot dismantle this razor wire,

especially in the Eagle Pass area, until we rule on this. So that was their way of retaining the status quo, but also making sure that you don't open the door for more thousands upon thousands of what they call migrants to get in this way. And what the Supreme Court did was they removed that limitation on the Biden Justice Department.

In other words, they vacated what the two lower courts had done. But that doesn't mean that in the end, they will rule in favor of the Biden administration rather than Texas. What they're saying instead is that the status quo they're going to preserve is that the federal government has supremacy in terms of border security. And they are not going to interfere with that. And they're not going to let the lower courts interfere with it. But then the case can go forward. If we were attempting to play sports analyst and we're sitting here at the pregame match and we're predicting the outcome of this. Again, this isn't what we root for, but what we predict the outcome to be. Don't you

think it would be an accurate prediction to say the court will not let Texas enforce border law, both their track record? And to be honest, the Constitution does point to this as a federal responsibility. The question is, what happens when the federal government doesn't fulfill its responsibility, is our only recourse as a people political, meaning is our only recourse to vote in Republicans? Or can states step into the breach and do something? And I've had Ken Cuccinelli and others on this program, we've talked about, you know, the constitutional advancement of declaring an invasion. I just wonder, Andy, do you think there is, we don't need judicial interference. What we need is judicial lack of interference to allow someone to solve this problem at the border?

Well, the problem, I guess, is if you don't have some judicial interference, then if you have an administration that won't enforce the laws, then the American people don't get there, the security that they're supposed to be guaranteed by the Constitution. I think to me, this is a kind of an ass-backwards situation in the sense that. at the time of the Constitution's ratification, what was clear was the authority of the states as sovereign, because in our system, states are sovereign and self-defense is an ineliminable component of sovereignty. You can't be a sovereign unless you can defend your territory. At the start of the constitutional republic, the only thing that was in doubt was the federal

government's power in this area. There was no doubt about the state's power. And I thought, well, because you were going to, I figured you would ask me something like this. I picked out of something Justice Scalia wrote in the famous Obama era, Arizona versus the United States case, where he pointed out that the states had control over intruders coming into their territory at the time of the founding, that that was absolutely clear. And what Scalia says is, imagine when the framers were writing the Constitution, when they were writing Article 1 about the powers of Congress, if they put in a provision that said to establish limitations upon immigration that will be exclusive and that will be enforced only to the extent the president deems them

appropriate. In other words, the states can't do anything other than what the president decides, and if the president decides he's not going to enforce the laws, then the states can't do anything about it. In other words, they can't defend themselves, and Washington won't defend them. Scalia says if that was, if they tried to write that into the Constitution, the delegates to the Grand Convention would have rushed for the exits. In other words, there would be no United States of America if the framers tried to propose what Obama first and and now Biden are proposing, which is that the states not only are subordinate to the federal government in this area, but now they don't even have the authority to follow Congress's

laws because what they're stuck with is administration policy. And this administration has a policy of non-enforcement. That's not an acceptable situation. And I worry that they're really playing with fire here because if you're going to allow what's the security of Texas to be decided 1500 miles away in Washington by people who aren't feeling what Texas is dealing with at the border you have to people in Texas as the crime mounts and as all the cost of illegal immigration mount the people at Texas have to say to themselves what's in it for us how is this arrangement beneficial to us? Play that out real quick. What do you mean playing with fire? How do you get burned here? I'm saying the same thing Justice Scalia said, which is that we wouldn't

have had a constitutional republic in the first place if Washington had insisted to the states that they could not protect their territory themselves and that if the federal government decided not to protect it, they were stuck with that. That's not an acceptable. arrangement to people. And I think what we're seeing now are the first signs of something that could get very dangerous in terms of the unity of the republic. I mean, you have the federal government won't enforce the immigration laws. We have led into this country so many people that it's bigger than the population of Los Angeles, which is the second biggest city in the United States. It's as large as the population will of about half the states in the United

States. That can't go on. That's not sustainable. And even Blue City mayors are complaining about it at this point. You know, they said they wanted to be, you know, they wanted to be sanctuary, right? Until they had to actually provide sanctuary. And then they're like, oh my goodness, we can't do this, you know. No, but your point is very well taken. I mean, I hear what you're saying. This is an issue, and we've seen how important it is, now both in Iowa and in New Hampshire, as far as you can get away from the southern border. We have seen how important this issue is, and I hear you that this could be something that threatens the dissolution of the United States of America. By the way, I love that you brought in Scalia. Before we go,

the best to ever do it, written and spoken word, clearest thinker. I mean, I like Clarence Thomas. I think he's up there, Andy, but is it, is it, is it, Antonin Scalia? To me it is. I mean, I just think there's certainly in modern times there's nobody like him. You know, Oliver Wendell Holmes was a powerful writer. We've had other people on the court. Neil Gorsuch is a fabulous writer, but there's, you know, there's only one. Antonin Scalia.

There's only one Andy McCarthy, not a gratuitous compliment. I love having you on. I always, even when we disagree, I love the clarity of your thought, man. And I hope to have you on The Will Can't You a lot more. Everybody should check you out at National Review. Thank you, Andy McCarty. Thank you. Great to see you. Great to see you as well.

All right, 855 Fox Talk, 855-369-8255. Plus, we'll bring in the crew two at A's, Patrick, Young James, and we'll break down what I did and did not accomplish in my interview with Dwayne, The Rock Johnson. Coming up on the Will Cain Show. This is Jason Chaffetz from the Jason in the House podcast. Join me every Monday to dive deeper into the latest political headlines and chat with remarkable guests.

Listen and follow now at Fox Newspodcast.com. Or wherever you download podcasts. Hold his feet to the fire and ask why he voted for Biden. Just one of the comments on social media regarding my interview with Dwayne the Rock Johnson. Welcome back to The Will Kane Show, streaming live at foxnews.com and on YouTube, the Fox News page. Always on-demand video. The Will Kane Show on YouTube, hit subscribe, and on podcast at Apple, Spotify, or at Fox News podcast. I was a bit surprised that so many people, when I posted that I would be interviewing The Rock, thought that somehow that was wrong, that that was beneath me, that I should not be associating myself with The Rock.

I was surprised at so many people held against him his endorsement in 2020 of Joe Biden. I didn't ask him about that in the interview, as I mentioned a little bit earlier in the show. It wasn't in the top five things I was most interested in when it came to Dwayne Johnson. I mean, if I started asking every celebrity I ever encounter about why they endorse a Democratic politician, it would be all I ever get across in a conversation. I just haven't gone through the world that way of like, I'm not going to listen to this musician or I'm not going to watch that movie because of the political leanings of one actor or one singer. It's just it's exhausting. I'm not going to do that. I don't want every aspect of my life politicized. I want to bring in the crew. We got two days in Young James in New York. We got Patrick in Florida. It's interesting along this crew, the various spectrum of political leanings among everybody. I would guess among us. that Dan, two days, is the least political.

And I hope he'll forgive me for this, but young James actually is probably the most political in terms of horse race politics and Republican, where Patrick might be a little closer to where I am in terms of, I don't know, a little more off the reservation. I don't know. We've got to control some of our instincts. Because of that, I'm curious, I'll start with you, Patrick.

Like, that's not to say you're very into politics, but you're more into the philosophical nature of things and why certain ideas proliferate and not being captured by one party or the other. What do you think about everybody being like, you know, he endorsed Joe Biden. Why you interview in The Rock? You know, I was I was very into politics like James when I was much younger and was into the Ron Paul movement. And that kind of spurned me. And just the way all that stuff worked out. So I'm definitely much more philosophical about things. And I just think that I like to know how the world works.

And there's more to somebody than just an endorsement of a politician. And going back to like what Michael Schellenberger was saying yesterday, you know, the 90s was a different time. And, you know, he said Gen Xers would know that. But as a millennial, we kind of understand that too. And, you know, things have gotten significantly more political since, since 2012, I would say. And it's unfortunate because, like, you can't just endorse someone anymore and have it not matter. Young James?

Yeah. You know, I think there's a competitive aspect to it. I think sports kind of comes first. You're not exactly turning on Fox or CNN when you're eight years old. but I think there's a dynamic to it of even if it's not a race you're interested in and who you if you're I mean in this in this Republican race back when it was 13 14 people I think we all kind of saw a couple candidates that we thought maybe if Trump's not in the race this would be the person there was kind of a dog yeah but James if the Rock is in a movie are you not going to watch

it because he endorsed Joe Biden I'm going to watch it it'll better be a good movie I think I think sometimes with his movies lately they've become a point where he just plays the rock in every movie Kevin Hart kind of plays the same character in every movie but I don't Yeah that's fair So did John Wayne Does someone have an Excel sheet of

Whoever he actor voted for Just that would be exhausting Two of days, just curious You know one of the things that took out to me I mentioned a little bit earlier in the show So I asked him about Maui And look I'm not a psychotherapist

but I would like to believe I can read authenticity in people. Now, I will say something. The Rock is incredibly charming. He has a magnetic personality, and to the point that you're making, James, he can get away with playing himself because people like watching him. It's not about the character. It's about him. That was the way it was for John Wayne.

That is the way it is for Kevin Hart. There are a lot of actors who can just be them in movies, and then people think they just like them. And that's why I said to him in the interview, I feel like I already know you. The point is, you know, he's very charming and so therefore, you know, you got to watch yourself like, am I just buying in? But I bought a level of authenticity on how hit he was on the blowback when it comes to Maui. Like, it bothered him. Now, I'm going to say this also. That could be because once you achieve a certain kind of celebrity, you always want 100% approval rating. and for one of the first times he was like,

I didn't get 100% approval rating, what happened, you know? And I can promise you there's a lot of people that want to be liked. And I'm not saying this is the case with The Rock. I'm just trying to step back and make sure I'm analyzing this and hearing this interview correctly. But I think he was really wounded, you know, Dan. I mean, I think it bothered him. And I like that he said, okay, okay, well, don't get defensive, Dwayne.

Don't get mad about that. Ask yourself some self-awareness. Where did you go wrong that people are mad about you putting together this charity to help? Well, through the interview, I mean, he does talk well like a politician. Like he's hitting the talking points and how he talks. And then he really did get to that point. And it seemed genuine. I mean, he was really hurt by it.

And really, that's who you could see, his demeanor change a little bit. And I think he has it in him. what politicians have, you know, actors can kind of turn it on, turn it off. But there are points when you could see through that kind of veneer and know that they're being genuine and serious. And, you know, I love the interview. I wouldn't see him as president. Someone on our YouTube comment said maybe he could play a president in a movie or something like that.

But that's about as far as it goes. We had the pro wrestler as president in idiocracy. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And then they said Kevin Hart could be his vice president in the movie. so I think that'd be I'd watch that you'd watch that reality oh in the movie about yeah about them

being president um you know one of the things people do when they don't have a canned answer is they talk longer and his longest answer was about failure now I don't think it's the first time he's probably said that about failing um to make the NFL I would have like if he were here

for a full hour and by the way he not discussed that at the end of the interview I think he appreciated the the type of interview that it ended up being in terms of, you know, some introspection. And I think he's open. And we may have some longer conversations. I may be at WrestleMania.

Is I would like to ask, like, why did it fail? I'm curious, like, you know, what is it? He played defensive tackle, I think, right? And why wasn't he good enough for the NFL? Speed, strength, resilient. He used to work out with Ray Lewis, right? Miami, probably. I think they both said they're on the gym at 5 a.m. every day.

Yeah, he was defensive tackle. Yep. Yeah, they won't add to that year. Yeah, I'd be curious about that. Like, let's live in that failure for just a moment. There was the, the, you know, I don't know if I would have pushed him on Joe Biden. If I would have said something, you know what I think would have been interesting? I think that the controversial thing would have been,

that he would have had to calculate in his head is being honest about whether or not he still supports Joe Biden. That's my honest guess. I think there's a lot of celebrities who took the mainstream easy path who have seen the product of doing so over the last three years. And the real controversial decision would be to look at me or somebody and go, yeah, but I don't support him anymore. No more Joe Biden. That would be a tough thing for someone like him to do. And I can't help but wonder if that is not the honest case of where he is today. It was an interesting interview. There's a couple little personal notes in there. You know, I don't know. I love interviewing. I love debating. I love conversations. So I'll just add like all the different

dynamics to go into something. And by the way, standing on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange is not the most conducive place to start talking about your greatest insecurities. But Nick Con, the president of WWE used to be my agent. And so, you know, Nick in the interview, the three of us, made for an interesting dynamic. But, I mean, there's no bad blood. And it was great to reconnect with Nick. But Duane's like, do you know Will Nick? He's, yeah, we go back quite some time.

By the way, if you're going to WrestleMania, I think we should all go as a show and, you know, broadcast from there, that'd be fun. I'm just putting that out there. So when somebody offers you tickets and you heard. Nick Con say you've got to bring your kids what is the limit on number of tickets where you exceed you know sort of the invitation I mean I feel like

your immediate family is a is a go you know I can I please have four I have two sons and my wife can I have seven I'd like to include my three producers at the location that's for work purposes that's different than family

when do you over it's like we'd like you to come over for dinner great I'm bringing a crew of six you know what is what's the number i think this is this is the life of pete higseth and rachel camp post duffy like we'd like you to come to dinner i'm sorry there's seven of us yeah yeah can i adopt you guys i think the limit's got to be four right if i feel like it has to be four feels right yeah that's the that's the sweet spot in which case you're out two a days darn all right i hope you enjoyed that conversation with the president of

W.W. Nick Conn and with Dwayne the Rock Johnson. It will be up the full episode on The Will Cain Show at YouTube. Share it with your friends. There will be clips up at Instagram. See Will C. Wilcane on X at Wilcane and the Will Cain Show. We love your comments. We love your feedback.

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