Will Cain Country - Merril Hoge: A Weak 2025 QB Class? Plus, How To Build A Football Team Through The Draft

Episode Date: April 11, 2025

On this edition of The Will Cain Show’s Friday sports episode, former ESPN NFL analyst and NFL running back, Merril Hoge joins Will break down why this year's quarterback class is one of the weakest in recent memory. Hoge explains why top prospects like Cam Ward and Shedeur Sanders are overvalued and lack key NFL traits like structure, timing, and accuracy.  He emphasizes building teams from the inside out and warns against drafting QBs too early. They also dive into the real value of running backs and debunk the myth that accuracy can be “fixed” at the next level. Tell Will what you thought about this podcast by emailing [e-mail] Subscribe to The Will Cain Show on YouTube here: Watch The Will Cain Show! Follow Will on Twitter: @WillCain Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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running backs, and selecting players in the NFL draft with legend. Former running back, Merrill Hodge. It's the Will Kane Show. normally streaming live every Monday through Thursday, 12 o'clock Eastern time, Fox News.com, Fox News, YouTube, and Fox News, Facebook. Always on demand by subscribing Apple or on Spotify. This is Canaan Sports edition of The Will Kane Show, where we're going to focus in on the NFL draft. Several times over the next couple of weeks, I'm going to dive deep. Anybody who's listened to me for quite some time knows how much I love the draft, and I will dive deep.

I will say names you've never heard of. I will talk about thought processes that don't get enough attention. And we begin that process today with an absolute legend, former NFL running back, legendary Pittsburgh Steeler, now an inspirational speaker, Merrill Hodge. He's written a book, Find a Way, three words that changed my life. He's been right when others have been wrong. He was right on Johnny Menzel. He was right on Judevian Clowny. He's right in not buying into hype and excitement, but looking at actual recipes, fundamentals, and elements, skill sets that make.

a successful player in the NFL. So we ask him to take that today, all of that theory and thought process and apply it to some of the top guys expected to be in the first round of this year's NFL draft. Here is Merrill Hodge. Merrill Hodge is a former NFL running back. He is also the author of Find Away, three words that changed my life. I'm glad to have him here on the show to talk about, I don't know whether or not it's a sporting event, but one of the biggest stories in sports every year, my favorite, the NFL

draft what's up merrill how are i will good to see you that's a good way to describe it i don't know if it's an event or a sporting event or just an event it's an event three-day event but it's one of my favorites man in sports like i i might even shamefully be ready to admit i mean like do i like it more than the super bowl yeah i think i do i think that i like the draft more than the super bowl well i think it brings emotional intrigue um anticipation of stuff uncertainty. There's all kinds of things that, you know, intrigue people. So, you know, rather your sports, I mean, you really don't have to be a sports fan to like it or an NFL fan to like it, you know, if you like just

emotions and people. And, um, you get to see a lot of that, you know, during the, especially the first day, but there's three days of it. Well, and every fan base is invested. Every fan base gets a little bit of hope that day, um, versus two fan bases. Everybody just solved their problems. in the draft. That's yeah. The one thing that you're in here is that everybody just now, the player that is gonna work for them,

it's exactly what they needed, it's the perfect fit, it's ideal. And I think the, what is it, 30% of them make it, 30% of the draft picks that are drafted make it. And that just tells you how hard it is and how incorrect that is that you just fixed your team with one draft. Well, you've been the fly anointment on everybody's hope several times and accurately

throughout your career, Merrill. You were right when everybody wanted to invest hope in Johnny Mansell. You were right on, I think, Jadavion Clowney, largely. On other sides, you were right as well, not just predicting somebody who wouldn't make it, but somebody that would like Khalil Mack. And you have an independent streak and seeing what you see, regardless of the popular consensus. So I'm curious. First, we'll get into the hows and the wise, but let's start with the who. Like, when you look at this year's NFL draft, who do you see that everyone seems

pretty convinced about and everybody's excited about, but you're just not finding it on tape? Well, you know, the quarterback class is probably one of the poorest in a long time. You know, now, let's just use the last five years with guys that have transitioned from college, you know, to the NFL and the standard that's expected, okay, and which is the right standard. To be less than, especially when we're talking about the first round, you're making a vital mistake, which is where all these mistakes are made on what I'm going to say, but you got Joe Burrell, you got Jaden Daniels and C.J. Strout. I mean, those guys transitioned to the National Football League. And how did they do that? I think that is where people make a lot of

mistakes is people tend to look at where kids are playing versus where they're going to play. You know, I don't even think a lot of fans realize that the field is different in the NFL than it is in college. You know, the hash marks are wider in college. They're narrow in the NFL. And in the NFL, everybody's just as good as everybody. So the game is played more in the middle of the field than on the perimeter, like college, you know, because my guy's better near guy. We got five yards more of our field based on what hash we're on. And there's just a lot of things you can do in college that you just can't do in the national football league. So you got to look at how a guy, what kind of evidence do you have in college that he can play

like that in the NFL? That's how I've always looked at it. It doesn't matter what position, but since we're talking about quarterback. Now, the thing that comes with that are a bunch of things that there's three foundations of the passing game structure timing and spacing like those things that three things are a critical component to be successful in the NFL now in college they are oftentimes they lack that but they still produce and they make big plays and they're exciting you know that's probably the most uh difficult thing to overcome is a player's exciting and so they think that's a skill set and that is not a skill set it might be a bonus but it is not a skill set. And it does not help you transition to the NFL. You know, playing with structure,

that comes down to then you're processing. Like, how can you process? And there's different levels of that. You know, there's good. There's average and there's that excellence. So there's like this scope that you look at. So processing is really important, making good decisions. Another way to put it. And then accuracy. And then there's different levels of accuracy. You know, completing a ball does not mean you're accurate. You know, accuracy is about being able to complete the ball and the guy can run after the catch. And that gets confused too. So there's different levels of that. And then pocket awareness, but you build from there. Okay, if they don't have the two that I just talked about, they got no shot. I don't care how talented they are. I don't care how fast they ran. I don't care how

strong they are, they're not going to transition to the NFL. They will struggle mightily. So now when you look at within that structure, is there anybody like the three that I just mentioned that have a chance to transition to the NFL like that in the first round? No. There's not, there's nobody. Not especially the kid in Miami. When you think about structure, timing, accuracy, none of that exists. I mean, you're going to have to rebuild this kid. So now if you're fixing stuff, you're not building on stuff. And you're not going to take somebody, well, if you're going to take somebody in the top 10, that's not what you want to have to do. It's too hard to transition to this league anyway.

And there's going to be an expectation that this kid's coming in with that the three guys I just mentioned, that's what they're going to expect. None of that is on display in college. None of it. Is he exciting? Yeah. Does he make some throws? Yeah. In a college environment, he has four and five seconds.

The national football league, you have 2.5 and it's a dirty pocket. 70% of the throws. In college, it's like 70% clean pockets, four or five seconds. You take your time. You'll, shoot, this kid from a processing aspect, I've never seen it, but his head's on a swivel. Okay, I'm just going to tell you this, you can't play quarterback in the NFL with your head on a swivel.

That's not a good thing because that tells me that you lack in structure because when you go from progressions, they either start right to left, left, to right, into out, out to end there's so there's a structure with you and your head's not on a swivel and there's just a lot of things that are disturbing that I see that you got to fix before you have a chance to play and if you get trapped in the top 10 is that going to be the expectation no I and then you then you do a disservice to the kid today you're asking him to do something that he's incapable of and then when he can't do it then what happens oh he's a boss that people start coming down on and then that mountain pounds builds on you,

and the next thing you know, you're a bust, and you're ruined mentally, way before you're ruined physically. I want to dig into a lot of what you just said, but let's just, I want to clarify exactly what you're saying. Cam Ward from University of Miami is projected consensus. He will go number one overall to Tennessee. So you don't see it with Cam, and I take it as well.

Shador Sanders might, might not be a top 10 pick. But I hear you as well. You don't see it with Shador Sanders. I'm not even sure who else we're debating in the first round. But let's stick with Cam Ward and Shadur Sanders. Right. So you don't see them as top 10 picks. What do you see them at?

Like what's an accurate projection, draftable projection for those two guys? Oh, second, third round type of guys because they need development. Now, Shadur is actually, from all the things I just talked about, he is a better structured player. Like, he's a really good player. But he's a good college player. Okay, now you transition that over to the NFL, and then that good becomes average. You know, so are you going to draft a guy in the top 10?

He's just an average guy. And keep mind, we're talking about the tennis. We're talking about the Titans. Are they a quarterback away from winning a Super Bowl and being consistent? they got a load of issues and that's a problem i always think this is what happens you overdraft somebody because it's a quarterback versus here's what win championships and this is an absolute fact 100% guarantee teams win championships quarterbacks don't win championships that doesn't mean they they're not important and they don't play a significant role i am not saying

that but when you look at the history of our game there's never been one quarterback to plays all 60 snaps when you look at championships teams win championships. If you really want to say foundational, it starts in the trenches. The closer to the ball, the better you are, the better your team is going to be. But Titans have all kinds of issues. You're telling me that he is the best football player. So you're doing a disservice to your organization and your team because you're going to take a guy who is not the best, not even close to being the best football player. You got better defensive linemen, offensive linemen, running backs, wide receivers that can contribute to your team building,

then your quarterback, who has all kinds of deficiencies, and we're going to have to build on those and fix those before we can even start really having success with him on the field. So if you were the Titans, the organization and disservice. If you were the GM of Tennessee, who would you take, then number one overall? In that team building philosophy,

who is the best player fitting the best foundational element of a good team? Yeah, now here's where I can't answer to it. I can't answer to that because I haven't looked at every player. You know, so I'd be, I'd be wrong by saying some other player over him. I mean, I'm just saying from his skill set, he's not, I wouldn't grade him as a first rounder. Okay, so I just know that there's better defensive ends. There's better defensive tackles. There's better running backs.

You know, there's better receivers. There's better offensive linemen than exist in this draft that him. Those specific guys, I don't know. I couldn't give you that. I just know that he's not a first round talent. Now people go, he's a first round talent this year. And that's a mistake. Okay, if he doesn't fit a first round standard,

don't make him a first round pick just because it's not a very good class. That's where so many people make mistakes, you know, in building a team is you over-evaluate, you bring him in. And then, yeah, two years later, you're like, man, we over-evaluated. We should never have done that. You already know that. Just don't do it now. You know, you're building a team.

You've got a lot of players you need. Fix your teams. So let me dig into your philosophy on both player and teams for just a moment. So it sounds to me like if I understood the Merahawish philosophy of building a championship team, on average, as a rule, what you should do is almost take your quarterback last, that you should build everything around him first so that he steps in to a good office. offensive line, has decent weapons to play with, perhaps a defense that supports him so he doesn't have to put up a ton of points, and then find the quarterback that can step into that

system. I'll give you probably an asterisk that you would ask for, a caveat, unless there's an obvious first round talent, a Pat Mahomes or someone like that, and you take those guys when they're there. Well, I build inside out. I never build outside in. Like, I never start with a wide receiver, you know, from an offensive perspective. I'm going to build inside out. Now, if I have a shutdown corner on the defensive side, sure, right, that might be a little different because there's a lot of things I can do defensively, schematically different, but I'm still going to be the foundational core of a building inside out.

Now, if you see a C.J. Stroud or Joe Burrow and you're in control, it's A jaden Daniels and your control of that first pick, well, then your knucklehead not to take that guy. But that's what I'm saying is like none of these guys are that guy, but you're going to make them that guy because it's what you're. you have this year, and that's a mistake, you know, because you're going to set your organization back. You're not helping your organization because there's so many other areas of need. So I just wouldn't lose my thought process in that. Now, if you look at the core of the inside out and they're like, there's really nobody there. Now, this year there is. I mean, I know this from being in meetings

and all people that I trust, having not looked, there's some really good defensive tackles, defense events, you know, there's core players that can help you. You can build. The running back group is extremely deep, you know, and talented too. And when people go, well, the running back is not value. Okay, anybody who wants to win the championship knows you're going to have to have that phase of your team. Okay. One of the most critical aspects of winning consistently in this leader controlling the tempo. And that's how you control the tempo in the league. You stop it and you start it. And if you can't do those two things, look at the Philadelphia Eagles. Two Super Bowls, three years.

The only year they didn't go, what was their one flaw? They could not run the ball. They were inconsistent. They dominated the year they lost, but they lost all on a turnover. They dominated in this particular Super Bowl because of how they played in the trenches and how they ran the football and how they controlled the tempo of the game. So I just wouldn't lose my philosophy from that perspective. More of the Will Cain Show right after this.

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Listen and follow now at Fox Newspodcast.com. Welcome back to the world. So I'm going to follow up the running back conversation and come back to quarterback. The question on running back is how commoditized has that position become. And that is a disparaging comment. But what it really means is how much of a differentiating factor is there between the guy I spend a lot on and the guy I don't spend a lot on? And that spend a lot can come in the form of a contract or draft capital. So we'll stick with draft right now.

is it worth it to me to take Ashton Ginty from from Boise State perhaps with a top 10 pick definitely a top 20 pick is it worth me spending that on Genty versus saying I think Dylan Samson's from the University of Tennessee and people say okay he could go like in the third or fourth round like how much of a differentiating factor is there between Ginty I think the second best running back in this draft most people think is Omari and Hampton from North Carolina how much better are they than the guys that I can get, like you said, it's deep. So if I get the 9th or 10th best running back, is he really that much worse than the

first or second running back? Okay, now the two guys that you just talked about, I'll just tell you, the one difference with those two guys is Genty has top-end finishing speed, just a tad better than Hampton, the North Carolina kid. Now, that being said, both of them transitioned well to the NFL because of how they can run in the box. Their ability to start, stop, transition, their quickness and agility and power and explosiveness, because that's where you've got to look at a guy and how they can transition to the NFL. If you see all these big runs to the perimeter, because they don't exist in the NFL.

If you get one of those a year, you're lucky. The ability to play, you're like, okay, I'll give the Gentis playoff game against Penn State. People thought that was one of these worst games. I go, absolutely not. That was the best game. I saw him play because that's exactly how he's going to have to play in the NFL. They've been committed to stop in that box and that kid got tough yards. You got two yards here, three yards here, six yards there. You know, college, you know, I go back to the field, the differences of college, you know, those big runs exist, those big holes exist, those big seams exist.

They don't exist on Sunday. You have to have a player that understands how to run like that. And if they don't, and if you already look at them in college, and they've been like, man, they've got a lot of big runs. They really can't run in the box. It's going to be a massive learning curve for them to learn how to run, how they must run in the NFL. Now, both those guys actually transitioned well.

If you're sitting there debating, I mean, there's a whole host of things you look at too in greater depth is, you know, you look at the intelligence of the player, their overall passion of it, you know, their history of injury. I mean, there's all kinds of layers that you start looking at to decide which one fit you the best but when you just look at

their absolute skill set they are not that far off if you want to make one better than the other gent he just has a little more top end finishing speed that would be the difference whoever gets you the one of these guys

is going to get one heck of a back either way and then to your point are there other guys in the later rounds that are you know to that level is what you're basically asking you know

you could get a guy later. You know, I don't know there's anybody quite like, like those two that you just mentioned. You know, there's a kid from Virginia Tech that I really like. His name's escaping me right now. And I know what I love about him, he is a complete player. He will transitionously. He'll be a dynamic back. And he has a toughness that I love about it because he played with a neat brace all last year. And he's a speed guy too. So that hindered his ability to really be himself and be the best player he could be. But in learning more

about him, he's a tough guy and he's a smart guy. You know, so if you don't get those two guys, and those two guys are going to be game changers on your team too, by the way, their ability to run the football is going to go back to what I talked about the most important aspect to win in the

NFL, control the temple. They're going to help you do that. I mean, if you get anybody that you can help you do that, you've got a better chance of winning consistently in the NFL and both those guys will do that. Okay, two lesson-type questions, though. Here's the other thing that hurts running backs, Merrill, and the sort of actuarial tables definitely seem to bear this out.

There are exceptions on any actuarial table. I used to make fun of Max Kellerman relentlessly so, and he deserved it, on saying Tom Brady would go over the cliff. But on an actuarial table, Max was right. He just wasn't capable of adjusting his table for, like, individual greatness. You know, people are exceptions to the rule. But the actuarial table of a running back is they tailed. off at about 25 about the time you would give them their their second contract now you and i can talk

about why that is you know treads on the tire left over how many carries they've had but one of the things i think teams look at is the success of a draft pick is determined by whether or not they earn that second contract if i only get four or five years out of a guy that i get my full draft value out of him and with running backs it's getting less and less of seeing someone earn that big money in his second contract so i'm curious if you think about that at all why do guys tail off at 25 and does that appropriately devalue the running back yeah well you know to say this is you know a unique subject because you'll take sake one markley for example okay you know section to the rule it's hurt and you know his first few years in the league you know

or just hitting miss you know but it wasn't around a very good football team either i mean he was like the missing piece and fell perfectly into what Philly needed and what he needed. And, you know, the rest is history. That's why, you know, when you look at the Steelers, for example, you know, when you looked at Najee Harris, you look at, okay, the back's coming out. If we give Najee a big deal, are we better off or we better off getting somebody in the draft that we don't have to pay that much to? And will he help us and elevate us? And, in the running game. And I think from an evaluation aspect, the Steelers did the right thing from that perspective. They're going to get somebody in the draft. And that draft pick is going to contribute

in the running game to the level of nausea or better. But they're not going to have all of this money devoted to him. Now, a guy like going back to Sequin, this is those good runners, they're still going to be valued. They, you know, listen, I think, what is the average starting running back? like 15 million, something like that, you know, 17 million in that range. I mean, that's not a bad range to be in. You know, I hear everybody talking about like, oh, they're not getting paid. I don't know many people that would turn down 17 million. I just don't.

Now, their lifespan is different. I played the position. I understand. You know, I played almost 10 years in the NFL. I was different in my 10th year than I was in my first year. But if you have a special runner. and you know he can be special and he shows he's special, you'll invest the money in him to keep him around

because they're that much of a contributor to the team and what you're trying to do and winning a championship. Let's take a quick break. In just a moment, we'll be back on the Will Kane show. Hey, I'm Trey Gowdy host of the Trey Gowdy podcast. I hope you will join me every Tuesday and Thursday as we navigate life together and hopefully find ourselves a little bit better on the other side.

Listen and follow now at Fox Newspodcast.com. This is Jimmy Phala, inviting you to join me for Fox Across America, where we'll discuss every single one of the Democrats' dumb ideas. Just kidding. It's only a three-hour show. Listen live at noon Eastern or get the podcast at Fox Across America.com. Welcome back to The Wilcane Show. Okay, so let's go back now to your quarterback analysis. So interestingly about your analysis is the word.

What your analysis, it doesn't leave out this, but it devalues this concept. concept is projection. So you look at history and what someone is put on tape. And obviously what a lot of the NFL does is they rely heavily on the concept of projection. What can be learned, what can be improved upon. Do I have some elements there that suggest me he's somebody other than who he's already been in college, right? And I remember when I was on ESPN Meryl. I don't think you and I've ever talked about this in the past, but there was an idea at the time. And I think I had this debate consistently with Orlovsky. I might have had it with Hasselbeck as well.

Accuracy. Is accuracy something that can be projected? Can it be learned or is that sort of coded in when a kid is learning eye-hand coordination in like 15, 17 years old? I already see you shaking your head. I think you're going to be in the camp that says you don't get more accurate. But before you even answer that, let me just offer this. That's what the debate at that time, Merrill, was about Josh Allen. that he was inaccurate at Wyoming and he'd be inaccurate in the NFL.

And now we look up years later. And I think it was fair to say he's an accurate quarterback in the NFL. Okay. Look at this. Well, let's use Josh Allen. Let's be specific on Josh Allen. He was inaccurate in one area, the deep ball. Okay.

And I'll get to that. So I know Josh Allen. I mean, and Jim Kelly and I have talked about it. Josh Allen has talked about this. Anyway, okay. So I know absolutely about Josh Allen. Okay. Let's be specific on what he was in.

consistent at everybody would talk about it because it was pretty obvious when he threw the deep ball you didn't know where it was going it was going to go 100 miles and it was going to go in the park route the park missed the guy or hit the guy and that was true short to intermediate there was no inaccuracies that was not a problem with josh allen it was the deep ball and that big arm okay so now i'll get back to what how that i'll get back to that and then go back to accuracy and the debate I'll get into this debate a lot, this conversation, a lot. And there'll be gurus and even quarterbacks that I played with. They're going, you can fix accuracy.

You can work on accuracy. Okay, now, I'm going to go back to my history. I played 22 years in this league. I was our third down back. So I did everything but full of football. I've sat in so many quarterback meetings and office quarter meetings. So I've seen the maturation and the value of a guy who's accurate and not accurate. maybe the best lesson I ever got in it was when I started coaching youth football and my

stunts started playing and my son was one of the Kentucky State player the year played at BYU for four years it was a division one quarterback it was his lead of quarterback is I have ever seen and he had big time accuracy and he was just a natural accurate quarterback and this is where it kind of started and all my other kids were not as accurate okay now I never taught Beau how to throw, my son, Bo, how to throw the football. I didn't teach him a thing. It was like the first time he threw the ball, he was just accurate. And that just evolved involved in. So I watched him as he developed over like a 10-year span from playing 12-year span before he went to BYU. And that accuracy was always there. The only way he would get slightly better

is, you know, pure fundamentals. But he was just accurate in all scenarios, right, left, dirty pocket, off balance, you know, feet were good, feet were not good, he was always accurate, okay? All these other kids that were not as accurate because I had one kid who was, he wanted to be a quarterback. And so he went to all these schools, he went to all these teachers and he really, really, really worked on trying to become accurate. And he did in a way, he did when it was a controlled environment, his feet could be good. Because if you listen to all these people talk about, oh, you're accuracy can be better. They'll talk about it. Their feet, their hips, you know, the fundamentals are what's eroding.

That's why he is not as accurate. This is where you will never win me over, and it is 100% true. The NFL doesn't get a, they don't say they get timeout and get a clean pocket. I get my feet set and I get to throw it. 70% of your throws have traffic in you. You have to be accurate, off balance. The feet aren't right. That's when you have to be accurate.

and that is when you will always see who you really are. And that's so I think that has made more people get fired than any other thing from a quarterback perspective is there action. Oh, I'll fix it. I'll work on it. I remember Tim Tebow come out. Now, he was like all over the place. He had an elongated motion and he had a whole lot of issues.

His accuracy issue, big one though. And I remember Trent Delford came into me and he's like, oh, they just ripped him. his genetics apart and rebuilt him. Really? I was like, I never heard of stuff like that. And even Jaws, Ron's and Worker, I respect both those guys. And they would go, boy, we're at practice, man. He has gotten so much better.

And I said, okay, wait a minute. Have you seen him played yet, though? You're talking about drills. You're talking about a controlled environment. You're talking about all these settings they control. Has he played yet? Sure enough. Preseason game?

first time a collapse pocket. I remember you're doing like five yards out of bounds, one of your sorts, guys wide open. I mean, at the end of the day, how are they accurate within the confusion of that pocket? This is the stress of that pocket. That is when it's going to matter. I don't disagree.

You can improve on accuracy. You can get a little better as long as all of the things are in order for you. But that's not the national football league. And that's not the environment you're walking into. And if you've never put that on display, I will never take a guy and say, I will fix that. And everybody who says they can fix that, they can't fix that. It's never been fixed in the history of our game. And then go to Josh Al.

Okay, I wanted to finish with him because here's what Josh Allen, why his deep ball was such a problem, which is true with all college players. He has 20 hours a week in college. He goes, my receivers were inconsistent. I was inconsistent because we hardly ever worked out. When I got in the national football, here's what we did. I knew the guys I was throwing to. we worked every day, we harnessed my skill set, and we spent 20 hours a week, not, I mean, 20 hours a day sometimes on getting better at the deep ball. We're in college, we had 20 hours a

week. So that overall work on that, having a guy that I knew, worked on that 100% of the time. And he already had accuracy. He had his gain. It wasn't like he had to work everywhere. He had one area of this. And that inability to work consistently at it in college is what was the really big difference when he turned to the NFL. That's why he became so better. And I hear people talk about Josh Johnson. It's such a misconception. He was inaccurate in one area. And that was his inability to work on that area in college where he could work at it in the NFL and therefore got better at it. Okay, makes sense. Out of curiosity, when you say you had one kid who got a little more accurate, one kid who's born accurate, you're talking about your son who was sort of born accurate.

When you were saying the other kids, just out of curiosity, were you talking about people you coached in youth football or other sons of yours you know sorry i mean it was um other kids of mine um in youth football and this is all at all levels and all these i coach not your sons not other sons huh i just got one son not other sons right okay because i was about to say wow the genetic the genetic crapshoot of accuracy as my kids you know that's how passionate i am about them okay but what was the evidence to me is like guys even when i did all these camps i'm like there was guys who were just more accurate than others and no matter how hard we work with all of them these guys were always more accurate than these guys the guys that got a little better

they were always better in when the environment was okay but when it got dirty they failed out to who they were then they're in accuracy yeah really showed up versus the guy who was accurate it didn't show up as much it was there was less of that and that's why you know when you look at the NFL and you hear these guys well we'll fix it we'll fix it you'll fix it you'll fixing it in a controlled setting. You take it into the true environment and you are who you are. A few more questions here. I want to focus

in on quarterback. Do you also buy into sort of the ruled, I believe, sort of the Bill Belichick rule of I want to see an X number of snaps in college before I can see you as an NFL quarterback. So not that every snap makes

you better, but I guess it's just more evidence. So I think if it's true, he valued a quarterback on average or in general. He valued a quarterback that had, I don't know what the number was, but X number of snaps. And it may be all positions, by the way, but it was definitely, I think, quarterback, X number of snaps. So a one-year starter makes you way more nervous than somebody you've seen with three years of starting in college. I'll give you a great example, and I would not disagree with that. I just think the more evidence that you have, the better off you can make of an evaluation of a kid,

transitioning, no matter what, the position, especially quarterback. Give you an example of where this was a flaw and where this happened, Justin Fields. Justin Fields come out. Now, Justin Fields, when I was studying him, he would do some things and you weren't sure if there was just inexperience or he just didn't know. Now, in experience, we can fix that because that's about him seeing it a bunch of times he will make a better decision. Or does he just not understand? Okay. Well, what happens to him against the NFL, the worst scenario, different office coordinator every single year. So at the end of the day, you still really don't know, is this new learning, or is this, he's not seeing it right. Okay. So I still think the jury is somewhat out on him.

Now, having him been having him be in Pittsburgh and have a little more intimate study and details of him. I don't think it's all inexperience. You know, I think there's the things that he just doesn't process quickly enough and may never process quickly enough to be an elite quarterback. If I had to go on one side of the other, I would say he would probably never be like a CJ Stroud, you know, Jaden Daniels, a Joe Burrell from that elite perspective, you know. I just haven't seen enough movement or the other way, regardless of all the time.

challenges he's had of new learning, new learning, new learning. I just haven't seen any really raw development and improvement in areas that he should know, that he still looks like he doesn't know. More of the Will Kane show right after this. Stop. Do you know how fast you were going? I'm going to have to write you a ticket to my new movie, The Naked Gun. Liam Nissan. Buy your tickets now. I get a free Tilly Dog. Tilly Dog, not included. The Naked God. Tickets on sale now. August 1st. Jason Chaffetz from the Jason in the House podcast. Join me every Monday to dive deeper into the latest political headlines and chat with

remarkable guests. Listen and follow now at Fox Newspodcast.com or wherever you download podcasts. Welcome back to the Will Kane show. Who have you been most wrong on Merrill? Either you thought he was going to be great and he ended up not being great, acknowledging the 30% success rate of NFL draft picks or somebody you thought would be awful that turned out to be great? Well, I think there's a running back. Gosh, dang. I'm trying to think he's a, the Panthers running back. I think he came out of, Chuba Hubbard? Yes, Chuba Hubbard. I was not a fan of because of how he ran in college. Like I talked about, you know, the decisiveness, the build the toughness and how you have to. He didn't really run like that in college. You know, I never really saw

any of it. But he had a lot of yards. You know, he didn't make yards on the perimeter. And, he'd sit there and bounce and wait and get to the outside and it's like boy his transition will be harder and I was very impressed with how he adapted his game to the national football league and I could have been you know I've always think it's you credit the player but he had to have some good coaching too which that's another thing that you really don't have at your disposal when you make an evaluation what kind of coaching are they going to get you know they're going to be really good in the leader it could be you know average and that's going to affect the player.

But, you know, he just pops out in my head as a runner that I was like, boy, I just was not, I would never, I did not project him to do what he is doing. Right. Who in this draft class will stick with quarterbacks here? And I understand you don't like much of this class. You don't see any standout. But there's always the concept of undervalued as well. While Shadour and Cam Ward are seen as first round picks, I don't know.

There's Will Howard. There's Quinn Ewers. There's Tyler Schoe from Louisville, some guys who you can get in later rounds, by the way, with show. And for Howard and Ewers as well, you got a lot of snaps, all three of those guys. So you do have a body of evidence on them. Is there anybody in this that you're like, okay, yeah,

this guy's actually undervalued. While he might not be worthy of a first round pick, he has some elements here that I'd be real interested in him later. Yeah, you know, there's two kids that, like, When you think of the art of playing quarterback, the kid at Syracuse. And his name is just, I mean, he shouldn't escape because, I mean, I've been. Kyle McCord. Yeah.

Kyle McCord, transferred from Ohio State. Who came from Ohio State? Who was when I was watching Harrison studying him? I was like, man, because I was used to C.J. Stroud, right? Watching C.J. Stron. I'm like, boy, that quarterback really dropped off. I don't think anybody. Now, I wasn't studying him.

I was studying the wide receiver coming out anyway. And then I'm watching this kid at Syracuse. I'm like, man, this kid, I'll give you a great example. when they played Miami, if you wanted to ever know the complete difference of a guy who understands the art of playing quarterback, timing, spacing, structure, rhythm, you watch that, then you put on the other side, and it's a train wreck, a guy who is bopping all over the place. I mean, throwing ball from the hip, no timing, no rhythm, no structure. That Miami Syracuse game would give you a great example of a guy who knows how to play from the pocket and another guy who doesn't. Okay, so he

does. The kid in Indiana who played with his knee, you know, had that busted up knee. He really does things in the pocket that are extraordinary. He plays like you have to play. Because, you know, regardless of a guy's ability and mobility, and I like a guy who has mobility, don't get me wrong, because I think it keeps them alive and gets them out of a lot of bad young situations and helps them grow, the guy who has ability to run as a rookie. But eventually, you got to take what you're doing with your legs and you've got to stick it right here or here, depending on your right or left hand. You know, you've got to win from the pocket. You got to play from the pocket. That's where a majority of your success has to come from. Nobody, listen, Michael Big hasn't done it. Lamar Jackson

hasn't done it. Nobody's going to run their sales in that position to a championship. You got to throw from the pocket. You know, those two guys, I think, do an extraordinary job. The title of a kid from Louisville, I think, is gifted. I think he wasn't injured and hurt, had some injuries. I think he would be, people would look him as a first-round draft pick. You know, I think he's got an incredible field. He's also older, I think. Yeah, and I just, just his overall processing, accuracy, his rhythm and his pocket awareness,

his anticipation of stuff, his overall knowledge of different experiences that he's play it in, gives you a wealth of knowledge that you can do amazing things with. I think he's a fabulous guy. And on, God, there's one other kid I'm trying, well, you know what, um, uh, Dart. I mean, I think Dart really has, you know, he kind of reminds me of a Jim Kelly. You know, man, he's tough. I mean, I think the dude is as tough as can be. He played in a pure college system.

And I think there's some things you could do design wise and schemalize that would just help him and help him evolve. as a quarterback and all these there's four guys I just mentioned all of them can play and are accurate from a dirty pocket from a type of environment they're going to play in not that college you know three and four and five second deal when it's dirty and it's and it's arduous in the pocket and it's nasty all of them can function in that and you like to see that and all of them do that so I have some real potentials um you know not in the first round but guys that could really move into the NFL and play and be very productive. All right.

Last question with you, Merahaj. Who is a special player this draft? Set aside, and now you haven't evaluated every player. And you focused a lot on quarterbacks. But people talk about, I'd say two players. I'm curious if they're one of the two you would pick. But Abdul Carter, the defensive end from Penn State, I mean, gets comps to Michael Parsons. If that's true, he's worthy of a number one overall or top five pick.

And the other one is Travis Hunter from Colorado, whether or not he's a wide receiver or a cornerback? Well, I made this mistake, say, 20 years ago. I haven't looked at either of those guys on tape. So I honestly, I am no more qualified than somebody you just called off the street. And I feel like that because I, this happened during the draft, actually. And I'm trying to think, oh, gosh, dang it. His name's escaped me now.

I just told this story just the other day. The Jacksonville Jaguars drafted him in like the third round. he's on the NFL network running back and he's he came out of UCLA Maurice Jones Drew Murray Jones here thank you

okay that's why you're the host Maurice Jones Drew okay this is true story the only time I've ever done it I'll never do it again so we go to commercial break and the car goes in

and they draft Maurice Jones Drew I had never seen any tape on I don't know anything about and he was told to be like a third down back going to be drafted later that's what was the projection okay well it gets drafted in third round. Everybody's shocked by this. I don't know. And they go, well, they want to come out.

They want me to talk about him. So I was like, oh, I didn't see him on tape. I can't talk about him. And I go, well, we got to talk about him. So they throw me some stats. So they throw me his stats. And then they say, it was only five, nine. He's like, you know, five, eight, you know, 250 pounds or whatever, 220, whatever it was. And people are thinking he's a third down back. So that's what I say. I say he's going to be a third down back, you know, he's, you know, hard to transition to the NFL, okay, an absolute fool. And I could not have been more inaccurate. I could not have been more wrong of any player talking about. But now, I had never seen him. I had never looked at him. I had no right to say anything about him, yet I did. So now,

fast forward some two years later, I'm playing in the flag football game, the direct TV flag football game they used to have at the Super Bowl, right? And we're back in the green room tent. And I look over, and I'm like, oh, my gosh, Maurice Jones, Drew is one of the officials. And he's staring at me. And I'm like, this is so, because I know this ain't good, right? So I'm trying to avoid him. I got my, you know, like, he's coming over. He's coming over.

And so I just turned. I said, okay, I got, I get it. I get it. I get it. And he's like, no, no, no, no. And I go, go ahead. He goes, no, Merrill. He goes, you know what?

Here I am on draft. And he goes, everybody's killing me. Everybody's a third round draft pick. But there's one guy on that set that does no running. backs. He played running back. He studies. He'll get it right. They come out a commercial break and I see you. And I'm like, I know. So I tell him the story, right? I could just so you know, I've never done that again. I go, you taught me. You never do that again. Any of me is really, actually, if you don't Maurice Jones, he's a funny guy. He's a great guy. It was a very lighthearted thing. But I always use

addict story if I get in this position, why I will never do that because I don't ever want to look like, I mean, like a full after study, but at least you studied them and you have some value and you have some actual critiques you can give. I ain't seen either one of these kids on tape. And I would be, you'd be guess where I would be doing a Maurice Jones drew again, quite honestly. Well, lesson learned. I appreciate that humility. And I appreciate all this insight analysis, Merrill. It's always a great conversation. I love the NFL draft. I love understanding the how and why of guys work and where they should be picked because it's a little bit my favorite thing is um i don't know if you've ever heard of the allegory of the cave plato's allegory of the cave

of what reality is you know it's it's a bunch of prisoners who are trapped in a cave and they're forced to stare at a wall with a fire behind them they think the shadows on the wall are reality and not realizing that there's actual human beings back there until their chains are cut and they can turn around the draft becomes an allegory of a cave we're all looking at shadows we're all repeating things that we've heard. And we're all looking at mock drafts until it becomes what we think is reality, but reality actually hits when you get to the NFL. And so the how and the why is really interesting to hear from you, Merrill Hosh. Thanks so much, man. I appreciate all the time today. My pleasure. Thanks for the platform. Well, you're the best, brother. Thank you.

All right. Take care. Merrill Hosh. There you go. I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Merrill check out his book find a way three words that changed my life hope you enjoyed this episode leave us a five-star review always jump into the comments section become a member of the alicia and subscribe on apple and spot five i'll see you again next time listen ad free with a fox news podcast plus subscription on apple podcast and Amazon Prime members. You can listen to this show, ad-free, on the Amazon music app. It is time to take the quiz.

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