Will Cain Country - Michael Cohen Cross-Examined In Court! PLUS, A Debate About Harrison Butker’s ‘Homemaker’ Comments

Episode Date: May 16, 2024

Story #1: We found a motivation but can we find a crime? The cross examination of Michael Cohen in the trial against former President Donald Trump. Story #2: Did Chiefs' kicker Harrison Butker say women belong in the kitchen? A debate has erupted around kitchen tables, at the bar, with the single ladies, and right here on The Will Cain Show. Story #3: A monthly ‘Mailbag’ of your questions with culture, politics, media, and sports writer at Outkick, Bobby Burack.   Tell Will what you thought about this podcast by emailing [e-mail]   Subscribe to The Will Cain Show on YouTube here: Watch The Will Cain Show!   Follow Will on Twitter: @WillCain Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

One, we found a motivation, but can we find a crime, the cross-examination of Michael Cohen in the trial against Donald Trump? Two, did the chief's kicker say women belong in the kitchen? A debate has erupted around kitchen tables at the bar with the single-list. ladies and right here on the will cane show and three a weekly mailbag with outkicks bobby burrick your questions for me on the will cane show it is the will cane show streaming live on foxnews dot com on the fox news youtube channel the fox news facebook page and always on demand whenever you like by subscribing to the podcast on apple or spotify the is growing, the audience is growing, week by week. After the show, several days a week,

the Willis and I get together and talk about the audience that we've begun to build on Facebook and on YouTube, not just in sheer gross numbers, but in participants to the Will Cain Show. You're right there. You're in the comments. You're subscribing to the Will Cain Show on YouTube. And we will include you today as we will do a mailbag, your comments and questions, for me, right here, coming up later on the Will Cain Show. I, last night, did a sociological experiment, a bit of a zoological experiment. I also just had fun and went to watch the Dallas Stars play the Colorado Avalanche. I chose the verb carefully play because they lost, still up three games to two.

I went to see the Stars in Dallas, and I was walking around the American Airlines Center, and I was surrounded by men in jerseys, better phrased. I was surrounded by men in sweaters, hockey sweaters, green and black, everywhere you look. And I put it on my Instagram and asked her, hey, Tommy Laren, the host of Tommy Laren is fearless on Outkick.com. I said, hey, Tommy Laren, are all these dudes betas? Again, one of the most viral moments we've ever had right here on the Will Cane show was when Tommy Laird made the argument that men over the age of 25 shouldn't wear a jersey with another man's name on the back. If I'm being real, it was an opinion that at one point in my life I shared, but now my opinions, screw it. Have fun. And it got me thinking, if you ranked the best jerseys, if you rank the best look for a sports team,

It probably would go something like this. Hockey sweater number one. Baseball jersey number two. Football jersey number three. Basketball jersey number four. That is the hardest look to pull off. Just the tank top. Can't make it look better with a t-shirt underneath.

And no one wants to see your pasty shoulders. So basketball jersey, solidly in fourth. But hockey sweater. in first. By the way, speaking of one more thing about the hockey game last night, pretty cool tradition, I think, in Dallas, during the National Anthem, when the crowd gets to the point in the verse where the word star is sung, the whole crowd, chants in unison, star, or stars. It happens twice during our national anthem. I guess some could argue this is like trivializing the National Anthem, but to me, I just

maybe because partially it's my love of regionalism and that we should all be states under one banner we yes come together as united states i just i love regionalism i love communal passion and i think it's the second thing i like about it just seeing that communal passion for the nation as everyone sings the national anthem and then for passion and locality when they sing the word of their franchise in the national anthem and i started to think like what other franchises have this ability? You know, what other franchises can hear the name of their team within the National Anthem and put a little extra passion into that word?

I put that out on X, you can get it at Will Kane on X, and I was told The Braves, the Reds, and it wasn't something that I realized, but the Baltimore Orioles are famous for O's. say can you see. So I think it's pretty cool. I don't know which other franchises have that ability. Braves, Reds, Rockets, and Stars, but I think it's a pretty cool moment right there.

In the National Anthem during hockey playoffs and the Dallas Stars. We got a big show here today ahead. We've got a big debate over what Harrison Butker, the Chiefs, the Kansas Chiefs kicker said at the commencement address at Benedictine College. He had a lot to say about Pride Month, about Joe Biden. But the debate that has really erupted is what he had to say about women and the workplace. We're going to get into that coming up on the Wilcane Show. But let us start with story number one.

The cross-examination of Michael Cohen continues today in New York City in the case against Donald Trump. And one thing we've been able to identify is a motive. One thing we have not been able to identify, which has remained elusive. remains a mystery is a crime. On cross-examination, there's been a lot of questioning of Cohen over what it is that motivated him to turn on Donald Trump. There's been audio played from various podcasts, CNN appearances, and social media posts on TikTok.

Michael Cohen is laid out how he feels about Donald Trump. Kerry Koupeck-Urban, who is Fox News legal analyst, is in. in the courtroom. She and several other Fox News reporters send out updates throughout the day, throughout the trial. It's an ongoing email thread made available to all the Fox News employees. And one of her emails from this morning at approximately 10, 14 a.m., said, you have to hear this audio. Just played in the courtroom from Michael Cohen. Cohen is yelling, as he says, as he says as laid out below, laid out in a previous email, he says that this is a case of David and Goliath.

Cohen is David. Trump is Goliath. On March 30th, Cohen said he had Goliath on his back. Cohen recalls texting various peoples about an interview on CNN. On March 31, Cohen went on with Joy Reed on MSNBC. And he said, he recalls saying on the mayor, a Culpa podcast on all these different appearances, how, quote, I want to thank the DA's office and fearless leader Alvin Bragg for countless hours of laying out payments and crimes.

Trump having his picture taken and fingerprinted brings me nothing but delight but sadness to the office of the presidency. Cohen has said on many of these appearances, whether it was Joy Reid or CNN, that he can't believe what Trump has done to Michael Cohen and his family. It's not made clear what Trump has done to Michael Cohen. Revenge is a big part of the motivation for Michael Cohen. There is audio of him calling Trump dumbass Donald. He has celebrated these indictments. He has celebrated every negative turn for Donald Trump.

Where was he so jilted? Where did his motivation turn? Where did he go from being loyal to being. an enemy that's less important than the fact that he's clearly now defined as an enemy self-defined as an enemy giving this testimony motivation adding to that his credibility troubles that everything including the oath he took when he took the stand is untrustworthy he took that very same oath when he took to the chambers of congress and perjured himself lied to congress he's taking that very same oath on multiple occasions and violated that same oath. So you have a man with

impure motivations and totally incredible. And you have yourself not a star witness, but a bad witness that threatens to undermine this entire trial against Donald Trump. But as former federal prosecutor Andy McCarthy has written, what remains a mystery is not Cohen's motivation, but What is the crime here? Why are we in court? Name what he is guilty of. Donald Trump. Concealing payments to defraud?

To defraud whom? Not Stormy Daniels. The state of New York, the voters, to defraud them how? What keeps coming up in this testimony and this cross-examination of Michael Cohen is that Donald Trump actually didn't know the details. I got it, I got it, I got it. No, no, no, no, don't worry, I've got it.

That's what the audio of Michael Cohen is of him saying to Donald Trump. I'm handling it. I'm the fixer, the self-described fixer. It's not illegal to have a nondisclosure agreement. It's not illegal to make a story go away. Jonathan Turley said there could be a multitude of motivations, hiding it from your wife, protecting a morals clause in the contract with NBC for the television show The Apprentice, which any type of scandal could undermine

or simply protecting your own reputation there's all kinds of motives for why one wouldn't want it public an alleged affair with Stormy Daniels or an alleged payoff or non-disclosure agreement with Stormy Daniels the only way that there's an argument this is defrauding the public defrauding the people of New York that this is a felony is to say that the only motivation was to protect him as a candidate for president of the United States

all of this nothing Michael Cohen has yet been able to offer adds up to anything close to resembling a crime and most legal experts at this point are taking it for granted that this does not survive appeal because it is so loosely tenuously if at all connected to justice and the law now that hasn't stopped Judge Juan Mershahn, will it stop a jury in New York? Maybe after two more days of cross-examination of Michael Cohen, even that, biased jury in New York has to see there's a lack of justice, the lack of a crime, in the prosecution of Donald Trump. It's a debate that's taking a place across sports media. It may be taking place at your kitchen table. It's certainly taken place at bars in New York City.

It's a debate spearheaded by the single ladies. It's a debate that is fascinating. Did the Chief's kicker, Harrison Butker, say women belong in the kitchen. And if he did, let's have that debate next on the Will Cain Show. When you're a forward thinker, you don't just bring your A game. You bring your AI game. Workday is the AI platform that transforms the way you manage your people, money, and agents, so you can transform tomorrow.

Workday, moving business forever forward. Hey, I'm Trade Gowdy host of the TradeGowdy podcast. I hope you will join me every Tuesday and Thursday as we navigate life together and hopefully find ourselves a little bit better on the other side. Listen and follow now at Fox Newspodcast.com. NFL distance itself from Butker's Benedictine College speech screams the headline from The Athletic, owned by the New York Times. It is the Will Kane Show streaming live at foxnews.com. On the Fox News YouTube channel on the Fox News Facebook page, hit subscribe on YouTube or Apple or Spotify,

and always hang out and join the conversation here on the Will Kane show. So Harrison Butker, the kicker for the world champion Kansas City Chiefs. has given a commencement address at Catholic College Benedictine College, where he addressed various issues, including his lack of trust in Joe Biden. His belief that masculinity is on the decline, that he believes that Pride Month is a deadly sin. But the debate that seems to the statement that seems to be causing the most debate is his belief that women will be most rewarded should they choose a life of family, of child rearing. Here is what Butker had to say at Benedictine.

For the ladies present today, congratulations on an amazing accomplishment. You should be proud of all that you have achieved to this point in your young lives. I want to speak directly to you briefly because I think it is you, the women, who have had the most diabolical lies told to you. How many of you are sitting here now about to cross this stage and are thinking about all the promotions and titles you are going to get in your career. Some of you may go on to lead successful careers in the world, but I would venture to guess that the majority of you are most excited about your marriage

and the children you will bring into this world. I can tell you that my beautiful wife, Isabel, would be the first to say that her life truly started when she began living her vocation as a wife and as a mother. I'm on this stage today and able to be the man I am because I have a wife who leans into her vocation. I'm beyond blessed with the many talents God has given me, but it cannot be overstated that all of my success is made possible because a girl I met in band class back in middle school would convert to the faith, become my wife, and embrace one of the most important titles of whole, homemaker.

There you go, one of the most important titles of all. I hear in that, full context and that full cut, him celebrate the role of wife and mother. I hear him say that it is one of the most fulfilling life choices that a human being can make, and only one gender has the capability of making wife and a homemaker. I hear him celebrating that in a way that is somewhat indistinguishable from a Mother's Day card, which we just celebrated a few days ago on Mother's Day. But others have heard, stay in the kitchen, be a homemaker, Harrison Bucker, sexist.

That is the distillation for most in the mainstream media and has turned into the debate at the kitchen table. It's how it's been internalized by many in society. So this broke out into a bit of a debate, a conversation pre-show here on the Wilkins show. I want to bring in the fellas. The Willisha. I want to bring in tinfoil Pat, two a days, Dan, and young establishment, James. I think we had a very fascinating conversation. Now, if I'm being real with the audience, ideally, we would have with us on right now a woman who disagrees with the point of view that I will hold and that was held by Harrison Butker. We did try to book somewhat last minute, so it made it difficult,

a guest to sort of not just check those boxes, but maybe more passionately represent the side of the debate against Harrison Butker. That being said, two days, Dan, you played devil's advocate with me and with tinfoil pat in our pre-show call this morning. And you were like, I don't know that I can recreate this and I don't know that I want to. And I said, listen, man, you brought up a lot of legitimate points. But more importantly, you brought up points that you are hearing. that you, you're single, although you're engaged, in New York City, are hearing from, let's call it, 25 to 35-year-old women. And I do want you to try to recreate our pre-show call. I do want you to play devil's advocate with me, because I've made this clear not just yesterday, and I will

make it clear today, but I've had this same conversation over months, if not years, here on the Will Cain show, about not just that this role should be celebrated, but it's the most fulfilling and important role in society. And somehow that celebration is reduced to regressive 1950s stay in the kitchen, says Harrison Butker. Well, the things I was hearing and seeing, and obviously I'm not speaking from just what I saw out there, but it was kind of, it started off as, you know, don't tell me what to do. Who are you to tell me what to do and what to do with my life? that's okay for you and your wife and your life and your family but to sit there in front of young women who just graduated from college and busted their butts for four years and are just about to start their career what is wrong with having a career what is wrong with striving for that and having financial independence and things like that okay let me let me address several those things at the same time okay first on the individual level he is speaking to his experience and the not just fulfilling role

for his wife but for their family and for his career that was that was capable by picking such a life partner and he was making a statement individually that he suspects many of those young women individually in their lives will find that the most fulfilling thing they ever do in that life is become a homemaker and a mother now here's the problem it's impossible to stop at individual you have to expand it to societal right because you say well how could that that be? Because for the past half century, little more than a half a century, I do believe that Harrison Butker is right, that women have been told a lie, that the most fulfilling thing, like the height of achievement, is to do all the same things that were celebrated for men. It's to go into

careers. It's to rise up the ladder. It's to make the big money. And what he's saying is that that is not the most fulfilling thing. And I suspect that many people don't like what he has to say because that's the moment in the life where they exist. So what I'm getting as I think a lot of 25 to 35 year old women hate this. And those same 25 to 35 year old women, not all of them, but a lot of them will go, you know what, I find it a lot more fulfilling to raise my kids. I don't know that I need that promotion. I need that raise.

I don't need that affirmation from my boss. It doesn't provide me the same thing as raising productive human beings does. And so what I'm telling you societely is they've been sold, and I think Harrison and Bucker is saying this, a bill of goods, that somehow being a homemaker is less than. See, that's undergirding the entire conversation. That somehow that's settling, somehow that's less than, somehow that's easy. And achieving in the corporate world, that's hard, and that's fulfilling, and that's accomplishment.

And he's pushed you back going, no, you've got your priorities inverted. And I do believe that to be the case. We as a society have what we celebrate inverted. I cannot be, I cannot be a mother. I cannot be that in my life. And you know what? Those that can should be celebrated for doing so. But why is it the role they're saying,

why is it the role of just the man to be celebrated for a career and to provide? Why couldn't, whatever the role was reversed? Why couldn't, you know, a man stay home and provide that same type of care for the family? I know there, you know, when it's a baby, there's a baby, it's way different, but it's kind of like you can do, they're saying you can do both. A woman can do both. You can have a career and strive at that and be a mother and a homemaker as well. all right two things you made two arguments i want to address them both let's start in reverse order can you do both well here's the thing like Cheryl sandberg who was at facebook right she didn't she write a book called like you can have it all and and a lot of women believe this and some accomplish it's true some do quote unquote have it all but energy in time are finite that

doesn't have anything to do with gender it's simply what you give to a you cannot give to be. So the idea that you are going to be able to have it all, I think, is a lie. There are going to be compromises. And I find this fascinating for women often. Like, here's the truth. Like, a lot of homemakers have a guilt that they didn't achieve their big purpose in life because they've bought into the thing that's been preached for 70 years or so that what is a fulfilling life is a career. So a lot of people, women that stay at home, feel often like, well, I didn't amount to much, which I think is absurd because raising human beings is like the biggest thing

you could ever amount to. But then on the flip side, a lot of women that work really hard and have careers, I know as well often feel guilt for the time they're not capable of giving their children. That's real. That is what's happening out there. And oftentimes they outsource it, right? You get nannies and help, which I think is also an interesting thing because, again, that's the most important job. So you outsource that one.

So I don't know, just like understanding, just being real about, you know, is it physics, time and energy? It's like they're finite. They're not unlimited resources. So I don't know that realistically, this idea you can have at all is anything more than a dream that on occasions you seem to find. exceptions for. And then the first argument you made is, why can't the roles be reversed, you know? And the answer to that is this. They probably can be as exceptions. But let's also be real and recognize history. Throughout human history, the role of men has been provider. They go out, they hunt, they kill. They build. They bring home the bread. And they are important to a child's

life. We know that statistically and we know that spiritually. But the way they're important is different than the way that a woman is important. This is why families are the basic societal foundational structure, because both are necessary. When I say necessary, you can find success where it's not the case, right? Single mother, whatever it may be. But ideally, both providing different things to a family is necessary. And if you flip it, you know, I do think, I'm not saying it's impossible, but you're swimming against the tide of human history. For the man to be the primary homemaker, he doesn't have everything a woman has. Look, man, to be real, we're not as empathetic, we're not as patient, we're not a lot of things. And you're going to find individual

exceptions. But there are things that we're not, we are more, I can speak to, I'm more logic and reason based versus emotion and nurturing based. And so if you flip it, I'm not saying you can't be successful, but just recognize what you're doing. You're swimming against the tide of human history. Now, I know that you're going to say this, Dan, I think you're going to say it. But that's evolution. That's progress. That's exactly what I was going. And that's what I heard from. And I was speaking about this with my fiance, too. And, you know, she has a great career and very successful. And she worked very hard at it. And the point is of them is that. It's like we can't evolve from those traditional roles. And even going back further, you can have a career and,

maybe not get married, maybe not have children. There should be nothing wrong with that. It's not defined as they just, you can't just be like, hey, you know, you are in this position because of who you are and you should find happiness only by being a homemaker or mother. It's kind of the argument that they're going with. There are other things. There are careers. It's fulfilling to have a career and to work hard at it and put something to your own name. It is not as fulfilling.

I mean, I know I'm not a parent. I'm not a parent. is not as fulfilling as raising a family. Right. And I told you guys, I love this crew. I love this show. This show is very important to me on an individual, not ambition-based level, but for a lot of reasons.

I get to have real conversations. I get to have real debate. I am entrepreneurial by nature. I want to build things. You guys know that about me. And what I appreciate about you guys, you three, is you're entrepreneurial. Every day we talk about how can we grow? What can we do?

How can we make this show better? None of us are mailing this in. This is not just a collect the paycheck job for any of us. But I said to you, Dan, and I think I would say tinfoil pat has seven kids. You know, young establishment James isn't there yet. Nothing we're doing here comes close to the fulfillment of raising a family. It just doesn't. And again, this means the world to me, this show, but nothing compared to raising my family.

And so I just think, like, why have we elevated careerism to the time? top of the hierarchy pyramid. And I also think it's a little bit, here's another thing, Dan. I've been there. We're at different stages of life. You know what I mean? Right. When you're 30, it feels like the most important thing in the world. Right? And I think that a lot of women who are making

that choices now will make different choices for themselves, maybe even your fiancé, Dan. I don't know if she will or she won't. But when that moment arrives and she's got a 18-month-old or a nine-month-old, and she's sitting there going, what's a valuable fulfillment expenditure of my time?

is it going to be that affirmation from a boss, even that personal sense of achievement, or is it going to be ensuring that this person has everything that I can give this person? Yeah, and that's what you... One more thing, Dan. One more thing. There's undergirding something that I hear you saying is also judgment. It's like people don't like to be judged. Yes, exactly.

And Harrison Butker is making a broad-based societal observation, and he is making, he is celebrating a certain choice. We do that all the time. You know what I mean? Like to tie in Pride Month, isn't that what Pride Month is? It's like, oh, we're going to celebrate, we may not hear on the Will Kane show. We may not in certain ideological camps, but certainly society has chosen to celebrate certain life choices, right? And does that mean that everyone else should feel judged because certain people are celebrating a certain choice for themselves?

He's celebrating something. and how everyone else who's like, well, I don't fit your celebration, so I feel judged and you should shut up and you shouldn't be celebrating that bigot. Go back to the 1950s. But all they're hearing and seeing what Harrison is saying is that you should be doing this, and this is what's important, and not you can do whatever you want, and that the lie is being told that you can do whatever you want and you should do whatever you want. And so no matter what, it's going to shut them down when they hear it, anybody would. even if it was a woman saying this and not Harrison Butker, man, I think even a woman saying the same thing, they would be like, you know what, shut it. I can do it. I can have my career. I can do what I can do what. I can be a single mother. What if I get divorced? What if I need to be financially reliant on myself? You know, all those things. So I think no matter what, it gets shut down right away.

I get your argument about divorce and financials independence. You know, I truly do get that. And I think there's even a deeper conversation. Like if women feel insecure that if I get a divorce and I've put my career on hold for a decade, how am I going to be a provider for my children? Well, this is where it's like, well, we should have a conversation about divorce and child payment. You know, if a man is a provider, he has to continue to be a provider. If the woman set aside being a provider to take on this, as Harrison Butker described,

it, vocation. I have one more thought, but I just want quickly, you know, from the side of a man who has seven children, tinfoil pat, and from the side of a man who has no children and no fiancé and no wife, young establishment James. Guys, just give me your quick 30 seconds to what Dan, Dan's playing devil's advocate, and he's sharing with us a lot of things that he's hearing, and I appreciate that from two a days. But really quickly, what is your response, tinfoil? Being in similar circles to Butker, he's definitely speaking of his experience more than, and to a certain group of people, more than to the outgroup of average Americans.

That's interesting. He's giving it at Catholic College Benedictine. Yeah, that's interesting. He's talking to people that, to some extent, have these beliefs. What about you, young establishment? I think just based on some of the online responses, they're kind of responding not to the video itself, but to criticism of the video.

And I think as a dude, it's just kind of your responsibility to bring in enough that you give your spouse the option to do what you wants. Well, can I just say one last thing, Will? It's hard. I mean, in this economy, too, that we're in right now, double income is kind of necessary just to raise even one kid. So, I mean, it's tough. Yeah.

It's hard not, it's hard not to have double income. So luckily, I've been blessed to be able to be able. That being said, people have been raising children for millennia in conditions that we would call abject poverty. Sure. People have been raising children successfully for centuries in something we would go, that's impossible. I, first, I want to make two statements. First, one, Dan, I really appreciate you playing devil's advocate. I want these ideas challenged. This is what I want this show to be.

Second, as I often do, I tie in where my brain has been. I told the audience, I've been watching Shogun on FX on the recommendation of Nerdrotic, and I really liked it. I liked it to the extent that I really wish I would have read the 1970s book from James Clavel. But anything that makes me think, and Shogun has a level of philosophy underneath that I think is fascinating. It's about an Englishman in the late 1500s, early 1600s, that comes to Japan and encounters a totally foreign culture, right? And he, although he's devoutly religious and he's sort of a warrior for Protestantism, encounters a society that is very, very duty and role-based, right?

This is what Japanese culture, feudal Japan, even today is. This is a fulfilling life. This is what they argue. Like, to do your duty, that is a fulfilling life. and he's like, to the extent of committing suicide, right? You must commit suicide in this certain situation. Sapuku, I think that's how they call it, Sapoku, because it is your duty to your lord.

It is your duty in this life, whatever it may be. And the Englishman is like, talks about freedom, you know, and he's like, but you're a human, you should be free. You shouldn't be bound by all these, in his mind, alien and abstract, unsaid rules. And then the main female character says something like, but once you've achieved all that freedom, how do you get free of yourself? And I think there's something in the West where our pursuit of freedom, and you know I believe in freedom. And I think, man, free is unleashed incredible things. But in our pursuit of freedom, we become slaves to the self.

It's like ultimately also freedom is being free of you, your hedonistic desires, your want, your passions, your minds, your passions, your momentary flirtations. This is where spiritualism comes in. But there's an element here of understanding as well. There are duties as a human being. And any soldier, any athlete who's done his job knows the fulfillment of not just freelancing, but of doing your duty. And I just think that's a balance we have to consider in a society that's always like, go be you, fulfill you. You know, you can have it all. You might wake up at the end of that pursuit of freedom, totally a slave, to yourself. All right, I'm going to leave it there. We're going to do an mailbag here on the Wheelcane show. Outkicks Bobby Burak coming up for you to ask me questions on the Willcane show.

For a limited time at McDonald's, enjoy the tasty breakfast trio. Your choice of chicken or sausage McMuffin or McGrittles with a hash brown and a small iced coffee for five bucks plus tax. Available until 11 a.m. at participating McDonald's restaurants. Price excludes flavored iced coffee and delivery. A Will Cain Show mailbag, your questions for me here on the Willcane show. Streaming live at Fox News.com on the Fox News YouTube channel, the Fox News Facebook page, and always on demand at Apple, Spotify, or on YouTube by just hitting subscribe. Many of you have, and you've left comments.

You're commenting right now on the conversation we just had around women in Harrison Butker. We're happy to include your comments in real time here on the Will Cane Show. But outkicks Bobby Burack asked, Many of his audience, Outkicks, and you of the Will Kane Show, to submit questions for me. So today, we are going to address some of those questions in a mailbag with Outk's Bobby Barak. What's up, Bobby?

Well, quite a debate last segment. I thought it was really well done. And I want to give credit to you and your team. Not many shows are willing to go back and forth on a topic like that. It's very happy to see you guys provide really four different perspectives on a hot button topic. Thanks, man. I mean, you've been around, you've seen my career, but career is almost too transactional

of a way to characterize it. You know how I am, and I just, I like it, and I appreciate having people around me that will tell me where they think that I'm wrong. I think that we can get closer, I don't know, it's more fun, it's more interesting, I think we get closer to the truth through that process. So what's going on with you? You've asked the audience to submit some questions for me, a mailbag. You're always been a big fan of mailbags.

You do want it outkick, as is Clay Travis. And you've done one for us here today on the Will Cain Show. Yes, so the question's pretty diverse, to use the word. Pretty much everything from personal questions to sports to politics. So I'm going to read them right in order of the ones we picked here, because what better way to start than from Chris from New York, who says, quote, how far behind the Eagles will the Cowboys finish this year? and what will it take for Will to dod a Kelly Green Jalen Hirt shirt on the Will Cain show this season?

You should probably, if our goal is to always be honest with the audience, I saw this comment, and I know Chris, and Chris is in this business. He does not work at Fox, but I know Chris, and he is a big Eagles fan. You know, I developed this thing in sports. when I feel really bad about a situation, a game, a season, I begin to think, it might actually turn out really good. You know what I mean? It's like it's almost betting against yourself, betting against your emotions. I don't feel good about the Cowboys season. But then I say, why? Why don't you feel good about it? They've gone 12 and 5 for three straight years.

And the answer is because everybody's talking about who they didn't sign in free agency. Okay, not great But also it's not like you regress to Ever since we moved to the 17 game schedule I can never rattled off 9 and 8 I don't think they regressed to 9 and 8 And the Eagles take the division So the answer, Chris, is

The Cowboys don't They don't come behind the Eagles I don't remember the last time there was a repeat NFC East division champion But it's been like I think 15 years And the Eagles are you defending NFC East Division Champion. So odds are, they're not going to be in 2024. So I don't think the Giants are ready. A little bit nervous of the commanders. But I think good money's on the Cowboys. No need for me

to wear Kelly Green. Real quick on my end, I looked at the schedules of both teams last night. The schedule release came out, and I'm really high on this Eagle team. So, Chris, to answer your question from me, I say the Eagles finished two games ahead of the cowboys. The cowboys make the wild car in the Eagles have the second seed behind only Detroit Lions. Okay. Well, it'll be a first in 20 years. Repeat division champions in the NFC East. All right. Question number two. Representative Ianna Presley just said on the floor of the house yesterday, she's quote, so tired of white men failing up. Will, are white men still the group

most likely to fail up in society? That question comes from Glenn from Sacramento. Of course, no. This is a thing that said often the mediocre white men, that white men fail up. You know, I'm tempted to go, give me an example. But the truth is somebody will be able to come up with an example. There's always, you know, exceptions to the rule.

But, I mean, we could sit here, especially in media and rattle off numerous individuals who get shot after shot after shot. after failed ratings and canceled shows. And we know, we know that corporate DEI programs incentivize businesses to hire certain people based upon their superficial characteristics. That's a fact. We know it.

We know it. So explain to me how white men fail upwards in these situations. I think next week we're going to have somebody come on who's written a book about the only acceptable form of racism these days is racism against white people, and in particularly white men. Now, I'm not here to go, oh, I've had it so hard throughout history. No, no, I understand history. I'm talking present tense, the way that things are structured today, and the way that

things are structured today, it's absurd to hear that from my honor, Presley. Yeah, and we'll just stick to media, the field of which we work, I can tell you very confidently, the only group that executives tell each other, hey, we can't hire for this position are white men. It happens all the time, particularly in sports networks where they say, no, we can't have a white men in this role. Anything else will suffice. So it's an absolute lie by her and really a hire some inaccurate statement that people continue to spew because so few people. Yeah, in no situation, Bobby, let's stick with sports. In no situation would there be a.

halftime show, a pregame show, even an analyst panel show morning after, where an executive would go, well, we can't have him on because he's black, right? We can't have that analyst on hockey because he's black. They would never say, well, we can't have that analyst on because they're Latino. But they not only could, they have, and they do say, well, we can't have that person on because they're white. They definitely say that. Too many white people on the the panel, whatever it may be. They never say the opposite. They would never say too many minorities on the panel. They would definitely say too many white people on this given show. Yeah, perfect example. If we'll just talk about sports, the show first take often has

three, four black people on set. Pardon the interruption, which is the most popular show on ESPN, Michael Wilbod often takes days off. ESPN is not allowed to put Frank Isola, their lead fill-in hosts on with Tony Kornheiser because it would be two white men. The reverse would be no problem. Really? That would be indicative of where we are as a society. And yes, that is well known within the building

and honestly, ESPN has no shame in admitting that. Hey, Bobby, I want to ask you a question. You and I've had many conversations about media, and this just is following my own personal curiosity. This is falling up on a conversation I had on yesterday's episode Off the Rails with Pete Hagsette. We were talking about Caitlin Clark. And I want to tell the audience,

I had that conversation, I said, I want to see where the ratings come in. Well, the ratings have come in. 2.2 million people watched Caitlin Clark's first WNBA game, which outpaces NHL hockey, playoff hockey. The question will be how much of it is a novelty and does it last? I know the stats that when the WNBA first launched in the late 90s, I think they were doing like 3 million, and now they don't get a million. So there's a novelty effect that you have to see if it translates over time. But here's what I wanted to ask you, because this is the conversation I got into around Caitlin Clark. And I just can't get my mind around it. In media, there's this thing going on where I don't know if the word is relevance or virality. You know,

there's a lot of people in our business who people pay attention to what they have to say on social media, okay? But that doesn't translate into a recognizable media property. And I'm trying to like, what am I talking about here? Like, what is value? Because I sit there and I go, is relevance value? Like, just getting attention. Is it value? Because Dave Ramsey, for example, you know, I've talked about Dave Ramsey, the financial guy. He has no quote-unquote virality or online relevance. But he has a massively influential and successful media business. And on the flip side, we could identify a ton of people who are in the everyday conversation online, drivers of the conversation. But they have nothing beyond that. And

I'm just trying to make sense of like what matters, which is valuable. Well, yeah, I mean, to follow up on that, Caitlin Clark's numbers, remember, her game was Monday night or Tuesday night. It aired on ESPN 2, which usually draws like 60% less numbers than the main networks like ESPN or TNT. I would venture to guess that game would have averaged over 3 million viewers had it been on the main ESPN channel. So I think we actually, her numbers are even more impressive when you factor in that.

But yeah, it's a good point. Look, Dave Ramsey arguably has the largest audience in all media between radio, podcast, YouTube, but he's not talked about on Twitter or media matters or media. But when it comes to what matters, a lot of times public perception matters until it doesn't, meaning the bottom line usually wins in the end. So people can criticize Caitlin Clark. or say that other players, particularly black women, should get more attention in exchange of all the publicity of Caitlin Clark is.

But the numbers keep telling us over and over again. People want to watch Caitlin Clark, just like the way they want to watch Tiger Woods or Michael Jordan or Serena Williams. I think at the end, the consumer will tell you what they're interested in and what they're not. All right. What's next in the mailbag? All right. This is a pretty good transition. your old friend, or actually current friend, Ryan Rosillo, he put out a tweet the other night saying, why do all these old NBA players hate Nikola Yokic?

He's clearly the best player in the NBA. So, Will, why won't current and former players acknowledge Yokic as, which I'm sure you will admit, the best player in all basketball for the past, let's say, four years? Yeah, three reasons. and we did this on an episode of Canaan Sports, the Friday, the Friday sports edition of The Will Kane Show. I believe we did it with Andy Bailey, NBA analyst. There are three reasons why Nicola Yokich doesn't get the respect that he should from older NBA players. One, he's European.

So there is a prejudice, we can call it good or bad, towards American players. and this affects almost every European player. I think it affects Luca Donchich, who I think also is right now as we speak and has been over the last several weeks. Now, Donchis hadn't had a great playoffs. He did last night for the Mavericks. But, you know, the constant elevating Shea Gildes Alexander over not just Donchis, but of Yokic. I think it's partly because Donchich isn't American. I think the same thing with Dirk.

And we're going to get to it because you're saying. seeing a commonality, a theme here with all these Europeans, but I don't think it's just that theme and why separate it out. I think it happens with Janus, Antecoompo, as well. I don't think Janus has gotten full respect for how great he was, in part because he didn't grow up in the AAU circuit. He's not American. He's not African American culture. He is European. So that's one. Two, style of play. Yokic style of play is in a way a throwback. like 1960s style basketball, but also in a way futuristic. I've said so many times, like, my favorite athlete is the kind of athlete that is

Nicole Yokic. Like in soccer, I love Kevin DeBrona. I love brain-based athletes, vision, guys that can see things. And, you know, there is Yokic out there, kind of lumbering around, not built like a Greek God, not a cover of a GQ magazine-looking dude, and he's just destroying people with his brain. You know, yes, a shot, but passing, just the way he organizes and everything revolves around him on that entire team. I think style of play, when in the modern NBA, most people consume it through highlights on Instagram. They want to see a 1v1 breakdown that doesn't

end up in a mid-range jumper, you know, or an assist. They just don't want to see that. So I think style is number two. And number three is race, because he's white. So I think those three things, I think that basketball is a sport. driven by African-American culture. And African-American culture seems to believe that it is the exclusive, if not, you know, predominant domain of the NBA. Bottom line, it's getting more popular in Europe.

More and more great players are coming from Europe. And at this point in the world, you'd say maybe three of the top four, definitely three of the top five players in NBA are from Europe. Yeah, I go back to what Dr. Michael Johnson says, in December that black people should not accept Eminem as an equal in the hip hop community because hip hop represents black culture in allowing our former impressors in would be counterproductive. I think there's a lot of that going on too.

Basketball is a majority black sport, historically primarily black sport. And I think some players have even omitted it being Kendrick Perkins, Gilbert Arenas, Nick Young. They're territorial about allowing white. people to come take over that sport. And if you look at it, the most popular female basketball player is Caitlin Clark. The best basketball player is Nicola Yokish, Luca Donchish, might be number two. It's a clear departure from the historical norm.

But here's what gets me will, and I'm curious your thoughts. The same thing is happening in the NFL, a departure from the historical norm, meaning black quarterbacks are now some of the best in the league. Patrick Mahomes, C.J. Strout, Lamar Jackson, Jordan Love. So why should we celebrate the rise of black quarterbacks in the NFL but sort of refuse to acknowledge and belittle the rise of white players and basketball? Well, the argument they would give to you on that is that black quarterbacks in the past weren't put into positions to succeed at quarterback because they weren't given the opportunity because of prejudice or racism, you know, which are, which are

outgrowths of probably even predating that, like unwritten rules. You know what I mean? Like, oh, he's black. He can't play quarterback. And then it metastasizing, oh, he's black. He's not good enough to play quarterback. And so the accomplishments of Lamar Jackson, I mean, we start with Doug Williams, you know, and then go to Warren Moon and on until we arrive at Lamar Jackson are to be celebrated as accomplishments over that mindset. where that didn't exist in basketball. You know, it's not like... Well, hold on, hold on, though, because over the past 30 years,

there's been a lot of stereotypes that white men can't jump or white men can't hoop. Doug Gottlieb talked about it a lot, but he played college basketball. I think white players have also... Well, that definitely is true. Yeah. Yeah, that's definitely true. This is going to be a dangerous word.

I'm just not sure it was as systemic. You know, this is where we get into systemic versus culture. Prejudice versus, like... a system of rules. Look, you always had Bill Walton, you always had Larry Bird, you always had Jerry West, you know, but I agree with you, there is a culture of dismissiveness towards the white player. It can't be that good.

It's like the white corner as well, right? We'll see how good Cooper Dejean, Dijon, Dijon, is with the Eagles. But, I mean, I want to be real, like as well. The conversation we're having is real, and people like, oh, you said the word white. But you know what I also said? The truth. So if you want to have a real conversation and have the truth, this is it about Yokic. Yeah, absolutely.

All right. Question, two more to go. What story is not getting enough attention heading into the 2024 election? That is from Serena. Oh, Serena. Open-ended questions where one must fill in the blank. my gut answer on that is not going to be satisfactory because you want me to give you a story that already exists that isn't getting enough attention when my gut reaction is it's the story

that's yet to come like i think that what's going to happen is within a matter of months there is going to be a story that absolutely takes over the news cycle for not in significant amount of time, weeks, you know, maybe even a month, that drives the conversation towards this presidential election. And what will have to happen will be whatever that story is will have to be looked at as to whether or not it's manipulation. Is it real? Is it fake? Or if it is, and it is real, is it being suppressed? I just think that that bomb is yet to go off. The Hunter Biden laptop story, you know, replacing Joe Biden. I think that whatever is going to happen that actually is the story that affects this presidential election has yet to happen.

Yeah, I mean, to me this is simple. Last November, the House Judiciary Committee submitted a filing, just closing some of the interactions that social media companies had with the Democrat Party, the DNC, and Democratic officials. We know from the Hunter-Bide laptop story and from reports from Media Research Center, Google, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and TikTok, all somewhat interfered in the last election by burying and amplifying subjective political content. Republicans still complain about that to this day, but what have they done to stop it? Nothing. The powers that be have done everything they can to try to derail Donald Trump's momentum. Are we really supposed to believe that Facebook, TikTok, and Google are not going to use their uncontested power to again help the Democrat Party. I think we'd be fools to say,

right. No. They have no reason not to do it again. Yeah, I totally agree. And so that will be the manipulation of that story, either the elevation of a false story or the suppression of a real story that affects this presidential election. All right. Last question. Last one. This is from Tyler from Austin, Texas, a place you know well. Will, how much impact will the media have on this election. After covering up the Hunter Biden Lab's top story one year ago, voters surely know the media isn't telling them the truth.

Will the media still be able to influence votes come November? Yes. Yes. The media will have a massive influence. I'm going to go back to our Harrison Bucker conversation. So I think we take for granted the way that people consume news. And those of us, perhaps that are watching right now,

that are more dedicated consumers of information, we'll look at something and go, look at how that's being manipulated, look how that's not real, or look, here's the other side of the story. And I don't think that's what the vast majority of people do. The vast majority of people let the news wash over them. That doesn't mean they trust it. Like if you asked them, if they answered a poll question, they may say, I don't trust the news.

But that doesn't stop them from letting the news wash over them. And what I mean by that is picture like a dam that a beaver built on a river and different laws. come flowing down the river and some go over and the most go over and flow over and on down the stream but some sticks and twigs stick in the dam and it builds up bigger as you go like the Harrison butker story will wash over the vast majority of people the details what he actually said the interesting debate that we had and the conversation as a culture that we should have that will all wash over the dam and the stick that gets stuck there will be oh he said women should stay in the kitchen how 1950s that's the only thing that will be internalized And so as you walk around, like, the vast majority of people will be like, I can't believe that chief's kicker. And they may even do it if they're conservative. You know what I mean? And so when you have a media that manipulates and the tricks are so obvious but so consistent,

like whatever it is, Donald Trump said X, and it just doesn't take much investigation. He said X, Y, X, Y, X, Y. You see what I'm saying? So in context, oh, he didn't actually. say what you trimmed him down to saying or the way he said it or it was a joke like i saw a headline other day bobby from from cnn it was a lower third i think it's real where don't trump made a joke at the rally about hannibal lector i can't remember what the joke was but the cnnon lower third was donald trump praises hannibal lector are you kidding me and like that's going to wash

over people and they're going to go to a barbecue and go what now now he's praising hannibal lector well look at the bloodbath comment he was referring to the automotive industry and the media at large made it seem like he was promoting a civil war but a month ago he said if you vote for biden it's going to be a bloodbath amongst the auto industry that was manipulation that was deceptive it was dishonest but this answer is pretty simple to me i assume tyler's talking about the establishment media um it's going to have an impact but it's going to have less of an impact that has had in a long long time because of the rise of alternative media. A Gallup poll recently found that was it 15% of Americans trust newspapers and only about 11% trust the broadcast network. So I think shows like this or Joe Rogan will have more of an impact, but I think the establishment media, whether it be ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, they will have less influence over voters this time than any time in the past, let's say, 35 years.

all right bobby on the way out i want you to do this i started the show here i'm going to end the show here rank these in terms of acceptability man wearing a basketball jersey man wearing a football jersey man wearing a baseball jersey and a man wearing a hockey sweater and by the way i purposefully use the word man in part because woman wearing any of them acceptable great look women jersey away the question is what is most acceptable for a man, rank those one to four? So a hockey sweater, I think, has to be one, because it's manly. It covers up most of your body.

I would say two would be a football jersey, because football's a manly sport. You know, you see someone in, like, a cowboy's jersey or a lion's jersey. You might give them a high five. The one that has to be the last is the basketball jersey, because, well, it shows your arms. And if you don't have manly arms, you look. like a beta to use our friend Nick Adams' word, right? Like, nobody really wants to see a 45-year-old man arms sticking out at a bar with a basketball jersey.

So that, the one I think, is a no-go unless you're ripped, like the Rock or Roman Raines or your good friend, Ryan or Sillow. But, like, if you came on the show in a basketball jersey with no shirt under it, I think the view count would drop a little bit. But if you came on in a cowboy jersey, it would stay a belt steady. And if you put a t-shirt on under the basketball jersey, you just look like you're 13 years old. Right, you look like you're hiding something. It doesn't.

You're right. And you're hiding something. It doesn't wear a big t-shirt under your basketball jersey. It's like, oh, he must really know he doesn't look good with the basketball jersey. So I'm out on the basketball jerseys. I'm with your rankings. I had baseball jersey above football jersey. I still probably would put it above football.

Also, none of them can be tucked in. That's a problem for, like, the hockey and a football jerseys because they're really long, and the baseball jersey. They're all really long. And then as a fan, you don't tuck it in. They all tuck in except for the hockey sweater. So, I don't know. When it's hanging down, like, mid thigh, I don't like that either. Yeah, I mean, I'm out on anything tucked in.

I don't think a guy should tuck in a shirt. Well, you'll grow up. Suit, you know? Well, you'll grow up. well no hold on hold on well because untuck it is rising quickly and that's for a lot of guys 40 50 and 60s I think it's becoming it's actually crossing over in generations now you don't tuck in your shirt unless you're wearing us I'm I know what you're getting at I'm I'm back to tucking in and maybe it's because I'm getting old but I think tucked in last night I wore this shirt untucked actually I just admit

I wore this shirt last night. I wore it untucked to the game. But I would tuck this into jeans and a belt. You know, I like a belt buckle. I think it's a great look. Yeah. I don't know, man. I think men should tuck in more.

I think we're going too far towards untuck. I think so? I mean, tighten it up. I might have to run a Twitter poll on that because my understanding is two things are about men tucking in their shirt in black suit jackets. You have to do dark, blue, or gray now. No, I'm with you on the suit jacket, but... Yeah, mm-hmm. Okay.

You're out. You're wrong. You'll grow up. It's like the woman who's real offended by Harrison, what Harrison Bucker had to say. You'll change. You'll change. Just give it some time. You'll change when it comes to tuck it in your shirt. We'll see. All right, Bobby Barak, a out-kick with that. Thursday mailbag. Appreciate you jumping on, man. It was fun. All right, talk to student. Looking forward to it.

All right. Take care of Bobby. Check him out. kick.com. All right, that's going to do it for us today here on the Will Cain Show tomorrow. Sports exclusive episode with Outkicks Dan Docket. You don't want to miss that. So we'll see you again next time. Listen to ad-free with a Fox News podcast plus subscription on Apple Podcast, and Amazon Prime members, you can listen to this show, ad-free on the Amazon music app.