Will Cain Country - MSNBC's Jen Psaki Calls JD Vance “Scarier” Than Trump (ft. Julian Epstein and Ashton Bingham & Art Kulik)

Episode Date: October 22, 2025

Story 1: In ‘Quick Takes,’ Will and The Crew react to Left-Wing Influencer Harry Sisson making the bold claim that no high-ranking Democrat had ever likened President Donald Trump to Adolf Hitler. They also discuss MSNBC’s Jen Psaki saying she finds Vice President JD Vance scarier than Trump, sharing their theories as to why Vance is so feared amongst Democrats. Story 2: Former Chief Counsel for the House Judiciary Committee, Julian Epstein joins Will to unpack America’s deep divide over immigration as 4 in 10 voters now want illegal immigrants deported, even if they’ve committed no other crimes. Epstein also discusses how progressive culture and its' impact on the country’s moral compass. Story 3: Founders of Trilogy Media and Co-Hosts of ‘Scammed: Getting Even,’ Ashton Bingham and Art Kulik, sit down with Will to discuss their effort to combat scams through their YouTube channel and now their own FOX Nation show. Bingham and Kulik explain how scammers have evolved to fit the modern era, the mind-boggling amounts of money stolen, and perhaps most importantly, why nobody is safe. In ‘Final Takes,’ Will and The Crew react to NHL teams using the uniforms of teams from the cities they relocated from.   Subscribe to ‘Will Cain Country’ on YouTube here: ⁠⁠Watch Will Cain Country!⁠⁠Follow ‘Will Cain Country’ on X (@willcainshow), Instagram (@willcainshow), TikTok (@willcainshow), and Facebook (@willcainnews) Follow Will on X: ⁠⁠@WillCain   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

One, Harry Sisson says that there's no high-level Democrats who've actually called Republican a Nazi. Barack Obama asked the brothers to vote for a black woman, but not when that black woman is running for governor of Virginia. Virginia. And Jin Saki says, despite being Nazis and despite being Hitler, J.D. Vance is even scarier than Donald Trump. What is he? Phanos? All of that. Today on the Will Kane Show. It is Wilcane Country. Streaming live at the Wilcane Country YouTube channel on this Wednesday. You've got to tune in at 4 p.m. on the Fox News channel to receive the Wilcane show.

This is Wilcane Country. You can't ask me on a day where inexplicably I'm a little bit thick-headed. You ever have those days where you're just a little bit thick-headed? That's one of those days for me. Today. You can't ask me to go live on Instagram. one and a half minutes before the show and expect me to come out of the gates like a racehorse. No, instead, I stumble into the actual name of this show.

It is Will Kane Country. Let's get it started today with QuickTakes. Story number one. Now, to take us through QuickTakes, as he always does, is the most exciting man in broadcasting, positively electric. one who knows how to get in and out of an element and can always toss smoothly to Assad. It is tinfoil pat. That's right, Will. Today we have a good one for you.

Harry Sisson, Democrat operative, a young fella, was on Pierce Morgan, and he had this to say. Can you name you, when Connoherst said that Donald Trump is, who was. Great, great, great, great, great. Was Kamala Harris last year a high-ranking Democrat when she was the party number? Harris called Donald Trump Hitler. October of 2004, Kamala Harris said on the campaign, Donald Trump vowed to be a dictator on day one. His former chief of staff said he wanted generals like Hitler's. Donald Trump openly admires dictators, including Adolf Hitler.

Last October, that was said on the campaign trail from the Democrat. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. It was the final campaign pitch. Is that high enough ranking for you? You guys, you supported her for president. how does he respond tinfoil yeah yeah yeah exactly after a litany of examples of Kamala harris not just any democrat but Kamala harris calling trump at least sympathetic to nazis and hitler and he says yeah yeah yeah exactly what then if you can get past all the cross talk

is said by harry sisson i didn't get that far in the clip I love this game. I love it. It's my favorite thing. Not really sure. God, we're off to a roaring start. It's like he's like preparing. Like, how can I get him?

How can I trap him? What do you think he would say, Will? What do you think the next thing would be that he was going to say? God love me for being curious. You know? I mean, anybody listening to that clip would be sitting on pins and needles to what does Sisson say next? What's next?

How does he respond to that? I don't know if that woman had a prepared list of examples, but it was impressive as he comes out of the gates hot saying, when has Kamala Harris ever called Donald Trump a Nazi? And then somebody on the panel seemingly has a list on her desk in front of her. How about October 20th, 2024? And Sisson, whose blood probably ran cold like yours, tinfoil. The moment I said, what did Harry Sisson say next? It's that feeling of, you know, inside your body, complete and utter panic, resorts to, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

And shame on me for being curious as to what exactly might have he said next. That could have been it. It could laid out. That's often what happens on Pierce Morgan. Nobody has anything to say. That show is predicated on everybody saying everything all at once. Go ahead, tinfoil. In my mind, my thought was get the clip and then, hey, why don't we have some examples of Democrats comparing Trump to Hitler or Nazi Germany?

So we have some examples if you want some of those. But, you know. Let's hear it from Kamala Harris. So yesterday we learned that Donald Trump's former chief of staff, John Keller. a retired four-star general confirmed that while Donald Trump was president, he said he wanted generals

like Adolf Hitler had. Donald Trump said that because he does not want a military that is loyal to the United States Constitution. He wants a military that is loyal to him. Hmm.

Mr. Kamala Harris, your hmm suggests. You don't think that's actually him being called Hitler by Kamala Harris, two a days? It's a roundabout way. That's how everyone gets away with it in politics. Around about way. Everyone does it.

Okay. Well, we got another one. Let's see if there's a similar escape hatch for James Clyburn. But now they're seeing it. How are he seeing it? He's not president yet. I mean, are you visiting another Hitler? Is that what you're saying?

That's exactly what I'm saying. I said the 1930s in Germany. Yes, you did. And, of course, and we can go to Mussolini in Italy. Hmm. I like how he drops. I always like when people drop the A in Italy. Italy?

I like that. I think that everybody should just drop the A. One time I interviewed Governor Rick Perry, and he pronounced Italians, Italians. And I thought, that's pretty cool. Sounds somehow racist. Italians from Italy. Huh?

Sounds somehow racist, saying that Italian. You're slamming the South pal. No, I'm just kidding. Is James Clyburn racist for calling it Italy? Who knows? I don't know how you're going to find the escape hatch on that. South Carolina. He's from South Carolina.

And that was Neil Cavuto, who, if we're looking for the escape patch, right, Dan? That's what you're doing. You're looking for the escape patch. Where is the cord for this parachute? It's actually Neil Cavuto who uses the word Hitler, not Clyburn. He led him. Unfortunately for this escape. patch, I'm not sure the parachute is going to deploy because he says, that's exactly what I'm

saying. I brought up 1930s Germany. That's exactly what I'm saying, says James Clyburn. Oh, we've got more. How about Hillary Clinton? And you know, one other thing that you'll see next week, Caitlin, is Trump actually reenacting the Madison Square Garden rally in 1939. I write about that. I write about this in my book. President Franklin Roosevelt was appalled that neo-Nazis, fascists in America were lining up to essentially pledge their support for the kind of government that they were seeing in Germany. So I don't think we can ignore it. Okay. Where's the escape hatch, Dan? Didn't call him Hitler. To be fair, she was talking about American neo-Nazis, a little different.

American neo-Nazis under FDR rallying at Madison Square Garden, everybody remembers that quaint little period in American history we called a Donald Trump rally at Madison Square Garden, a neo-Nazi rally. Here's the deal. I don't think they even believe it. That's why a guy like Harry Sisson can go on to Pierce Morgan and pretend like no Democrat has ever called Donald Trump, Hitler. I don't think the people saying it even believe it.

They don't think it. And that's why I actually think that if you interviewed James Clyburn, he might say to you, I've never called Donald Trump Hitler. My suspicion is he would say that, much like Harry Sistine, because it's the type of thing that he can go, oh, come on. I think that it's gaslighting. I think he's gaslighting the American public, but he's also gaslighting himself. I think he believes that he actually never has done such a thing, even while he does it,

because he doesn't even take himself seriously. He doesn't take the way he's saying it seriously. And you should. You know, this isn't an AI poop plane flying over a no king's rally. It's not intended as a joke. This is said in earnestness. And yet somehow in their brains, they still kind of hand wave away. Through the white noise of the gray matter of their brain, they wave away the idea that this is somehow serious.

But it is serious. We've seen that. We have bullet casings engraved with fascists to know that it's serious, that you can't just do that. You can't gaslight yourself into, ah, come on. Look for the escape hatch, even if you don't believe it. And I don't believe Hillary Clinton thinks Donald Trump is a Nazi. I don't think Harry Sisson thinks Donald Trump is a Nazi. I don't think James Clyburn believes that he's Hitler.

I think they are simply addicted to the idea that anyone, that opposes them has to be the worst thing imaginable. But it's getting harder to imagine something worse than Hitler. But we should try because that takes us to the second story in quick takes, tinfoil Pat. That's a great segue there, Will. Speaking of segues, we talked a lot about former press secretaries, and we have Jin Saki on, I don't remember where.

It doesn't really matter, but she was sitting around talking, I believe it's on her show, and she had this to say about our vice president, J.D. Vance. I mean, he's scarier in certain ways. He's smarter. In some ways. And he's young. And ambitious. And ambitious. And agile in the sense that he is a chameleon who makes himself into whatever he thinks the audience wants to hear from him. Now, what's also true, though, is J.D. Vance is not, he's in some ways goodish on paper. If you like what he believes in, I don't know. But I don't know that he can take the whole movement with him.

No way. I don't think so either. Scarier than President Trump. Skiddy vans. Scarier than President Trump. Everything hits terminal velocity. Everything. You drop a feather and you drop a boulder.

From a certain height, they both achieve the same level of rate of fall. everything. That's the concept of terminal velocity. What is terminal velocity in maligning your political opponent? What is worse than Hitler? That's the math you have to do, because as we've established, Donald Trump is Hitler, Donald Trump's a Nazi, and yet now here comes J.D. Vance, and he's scarier than Hitler. So what does that mean? What is he? Is he Thanos? What is scarier than Hitler? Help me understand where you go. Where do you go? after terminal velocity. Explain to me what monster exists that now we're going to, you know, turn into J.D. Vance.

Go ahead, two days. Oh, you're asking me. Oh, interesting. Well, I think, I mean, to her point, she means scarier in the way that he can, you can kind of align yourself with what he's saying more than Trump can. Because Trump is Trump. We all understand he says outrageous things. He makes jokes and things like that. J.D. Vance is a more serious.

person, I guess, I guess you could say. So it's scarier in the way that if you disagree with their politics, he has a better way of getting it done without a lot of people in uproar about it or even really understanding what's going on. You think, you think J.D. Vance is a true believer. Like, he intellectually understands the points that he's making and has the really backs them. Intellectual and executive wherewithal to execute the ideas that he truly believes. And maybe some that are different. some that are even more conservative aligned than Trump. And yet there's Jensaki saying that he's a chameleon.

He doesn't believe what he says, that he does whatever he thinks the audience will like, that he plays to the crowd. So which is it? Is he scary because he's a very adept chameleon, or is he scary because he is a true believer? Well, I think chameleon in the way that, and I don't agree with this,

I just understand what he's saying, a chameleon in the way that he can make someone on the left agree with him on certain points, but maybe not actually fully believe those points himself. Well, I have trouble without explanation as well, because Donald Trump has won over, you know, larger portions of the previously held Democratic coalition than any Republican president in my lifetime. Donald Trump has been, you know, more moderate. Well, I mean, we just had an election one year ago. went an election one year ago

he won the popular vote he won swing states he's won over union democrats he's won over blue collar democrats he's won over Hispanics and he won over larger portions of African Americans than any previous American president Republican and so I ask you what are you talking about

I think what are you talking about you're right Trump is Trump is more moderate you more scared of JD Vance other than the fact that he's next because he's less moderate than Donald Trump he's more to the right I think the real answer is that J.D. Vance is scared than Donald Trump because J.D. Vance is next. See, I'm old enough to remember and see all of this predictable pattern play out. And it is a predictable pattern.

George W. Bush was the devil. Mitt Romney was awful and wanted to put people, black people, in chains and had binders full of women and cut off somebody's hair at a boarding school in the Northeast. Mitt Romney was the worst until Donald Trump. And then, of course, Donald Trump had to be Hitler. And the only thing new or unique about J.D. Vance is that he's next. And you'll continue this. And he's got to be worse. What will be fascinating, what will be. Because of Donald Trump, you've seen somewhat of a rehabilitation of George W. Bush.

Now, the left talks about the respectability of George W. Bush or the good old days of John McCain. And don't kid yourself in 2008, John McCain was made the worst of all time. Mitt Romney now is a hero on the left and watch I guess when J.D. Vance is the next worst thing when will they rehabilitate Donald Trump and oh they will. They will if Republicans could only be like they

used to be under Donald Trump. People say about Bush. New guy. Yeah, oh yeah. They say if they could only be like they were during George W. Bush. They'll say that. Shockingly, just get ready for it. You just have to live long enough. And I would suggest

to you because time speeds up you don't have to wait the 20 or 15 years you had to wait with George W. Bush. You could probably see it coming in 7 to 10 years with Donald Trump. As soon as there's a new presidential candidate, when it's Republican candidate for President J.D. Vance, when it's Republican candidate for President Pete Heggseth, when it's Republican candidate for President Jack Posobic, when it's Republican candidate for President Will Kane,

they will pine for the days of Donald Trump. All right, one more here in quick takes. Speaking of candidates, we have a Virginia candidate for governor. Abigail Spamberger, she does not seem very happy that she has to keep talking about Jay Jones. The fact that I, and I say this with all due respect because, you know, I think it's a fair thing for you to ask about. The fact that I have to spend even a moment's time talking about somebody else's text messages from years ago, rather than what I want to do as governor, is something that I am deeply unhappy about. The fact that I can't spend every minute of the day

talking about the plans that I have built out, you know, I mean, not to be too hokey about it, but like my multiple pages of plans, my affordability plan, my... It's about the plans, Will, not about violent texts from Jay Jones. Honestly, I'm somewhat forgiving of what she has to say in this respect. I mean, I would be pretty upset. set that I had to answer for the text of someone else. Granted, she endorsed him, and so she does have to answer for them, and she does have to

condemn them, and she should withdraw her endorsement. But it would stink to be running your own campaign and be taken down by somebody else in your party, somebody else on the ballot. What I'm more interested in here is that to tie it into the conversation we're having about Nazis and bigots and sexists that are the Republican Party as portrayed by Democrats. If you just take a quick glance across the election landscape right now, Abigail Spanberger is running against Winston-Murals Sears, a black woman for governor of Virginia. It was only a few months ago, a year ago, a former president Barack Obama called on all the brothers to rally

around and vote for a black woman, and that being the stated and justified reason, a black woman in Kamala Harris. This time Barack Obama is asking everyone, and he's come out actively in campaign for her now, for Abigail Spanberger, a white woman running against a black woman for governor of Virginia. So it doesn't seem that the qualification or the premise or the rallying cry is simply vote for black women. It's which black women, the ones that would push forward the agenda of the left. Right now, there's a brand new prime minister in Japan. She's a woman, but you don't hear that being celebrated much by feminists.

Why? Because she's not the right kind of woman. She's not of and from the left. And Democrats, for all their concerns as we played the clips over the course of this version of quick takes, over the takeover, the neo-Nazi or the Nazi takeover of America, there's literally a candidate running for Senate from Maine as we speak. Grant Platner, who has a Nazi-S-Sattoe, He's got the skull, the angled skull, wore on the hats of the SS, tattooed on his chest.

He says, yes, I do. I'm sorry. I didn't know what it was when I got the tattoo. There's other suggestion. Actually, he did know exactly what it is. And what are Democrats saying today in response to that? Don't let that stop you. Vote for the Democrats.

Not that big a deal. It says, though none of these things actually matter. They're only tools used to elect virtue signal and then elect the person from the party that perpetuates your power. Nothing more. Stand for nothing more than that, Democrats. Let's talk more about that Nazi SS tattoo and more, including can President Trump? Should President Trump seek $230 million in damages from the DOJ? With Julian Epstein, next on Wilcane Country.

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Join me, Chris Hadfield, on the On Energy podcast. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. Harry Sisson is used to making TikToks where he can just say name one and nobody answers back, says the Wade show with Wade in the group chat in the Wollish. Make sure you check out the Wade show with Wade. whenever you're not watching Will Cain Country on the Will Cain Country YouTube channel or listening to it by following us on Spotify or on Apple. Julian Epstein is a lawyer, which will come in handy for this conversation. He's also the former Chief Counsel for the House Judiciary Committee for Democrats,

and he joins us now in the country. What's up, Julian? Hey, well, good to be with you again. Look at this headline, Julian. I like the story. I love the headline. Maine Democrat Platner, on defense over tattoo, comma, takes page from Trump playbook to keep up Senate bid. This is Platner running for Senate from Maine, who has the Nazi SS tattoo that Democrats are now asking everyone to look past.

That headline is from the AP, Julian. He takes page from Trump playbook, I guess, to what? Marshall on despite his SS tattoo? Yeah, I mean, look, I'm not a big person for making judgments and condemning people about tattoos or things they may have said 20 years ago or that kind of thing. I think that's just a race to the bottom. So, you know, I sort of tend to give people passes on a lot of these things, but Democrats don't. Democrats have a very purest mentality. You find you dig something up on a candidate that was 10 years ago, 15 years ago, that they said,

that it violates their sense of identity politics, and Democrats are going to call for the cancellation of that person, which is interesting in this case. You see the Democrats silent. You see Spamberger. You know, I've got to say, you sounded like you're going a little soft on me on that Spamberger stuff before the break. Well, I mean, I think there's no question that Spanberger should be asking for Jay Jones to drop out of the race.

This is a question of character. And if the Democrats can't meet that question of character, I think it says a lot about the party morally and says a lot about the party politically. So this main candidate, you know, I don't think it's a huge deal. I would take his explanation at face value, but it does display the complete inconsistency of Democrats who love to find something on someone and use it against them to vilify them. But when it happens to their own, like all of these expressions of violence that you see coming from the left that they try to explain away, it just shows a party that's characterized by moral relativism. And moral relativism, as you know,

is just sort of a race to the bottom. It's a civilizational suicide when you take that too far. It's pretty interesting where we're soft and where we're hard. I can't, I don't like canceling people either. I mean, I think I have a long career of defending people who said things, most notably when they were teenagers over at ESPN. I don't care what you tweeted when you were 14. You're the first pick in the NFL draft. It's irrelevant in this moment. But I do think that if you at any point thought, you know what, man, as you're sitting in the tattoo parlor,

give me the Nazi SS tat. I don't know. I'm having a hard time looking past that one and the character choices involved in that. Jay Jones, I have my character judgments on him. And you're absolutely right. I mean, for the party at large, you have to be able to condemn this. You have to be able to withdraw your endorsement. You have to be able to walk away from Jay Jones.

That being said, my sympathy or softness for Spamberger is just that you're running along, running for a governor. And some dude somewhere else texted something long ago, and now it's tanking your campaign. And it is, I mean, it's tanked Jay Jones. He's now trailing Jason Miaris. But it's drawn when some Earl Sears within, I think, like six points now. of Spanberger. And I'm sure she's looking up every morning going, to hell with Jay Jones. Why do I have to deal with Jay Jones? Well, so, you know, just to be clear on the tattoo, I don't condone it.

I don't think we know a great deal about it. I think it's sort of one instance, and there's a, you know, the candidate is making an explanation for it. And I don't know if it's consistent with anything else in his character. In the case of Jay Jones, you had multiple tweets where he was wishing, fantasizing about the death of his opponent, his opponent's children. And this is when he was a public official. And this is something that I think is a question of character. And if you had a and it's not some random dude will, it's a guy that was an elected official, a member of the

state legislature who said this stuff recently and said it repeatedly. It was not a fit of rage. This is something that he had clearly thought about over a long period of time and had a considered view on. And if he was saying the same thing about saying, say, let's valorize the KKK or let's valorize lynchings or let's valorize, you know, violent attacks on constituencies that Democrats hold dear, whether it's black, brown, gay, trans, whatever, I can assure you that Democrats would be saying, would be going for that guy's scalp and saying they have to drop out of the race. So it's the hypocrisy and this inconsistency of the, of Democrats who will not stand up to their own when their own are advocating violence,

particularly when we see an epidemic of political violence going on in this country. The U-Gov poll will show that 25% of young progressives, you and I talked about this on the 4 o'clock show. 25% of young progressives think that political violence can be justified, another 15% are on the fence on it. That's almost half of young progressives. You know, some polls showing over half of the left thinking that the assassination attempt Donald Trump was justified.

80% of college students think it's okay to use physical means to shut down a conservative speaker. This is not a small issue. This is a big political issue in this country. It's tearing the country apart. And when you have a candidate that is advocating political violence, that is a question of character. And the party should be four square behind telling that person to drop out. And if they don't, it's a failure of, it's a moral failure on the part of the the party. And I would say that if a Republican or if a Democrat, but Jay Jones has no business

running and representing the Democrats. So here's why I think that's not happening, Julian. It is not simply hypocrisy. It's actually the consistency that is notable. It's the consistency of the application of appropriate violence. The hypocrisy is a feature, not a bug, when you, when you understand, and it applies to, it also applies to the rhetoric, but at this point, it's moved into the embrace of violence, that violence in and of itself is not an illegitimate means of political expression on the left. It's only illegitimate if applied in illegitimate directions by their own estimation. It's not the use of violence as a problem. It's who are you being violent toward? That is the moral calculus. And I think that's illustrated by yet another

story, and this is a Howard professor who has asked white people to stop asking. their black friends how they can help. Stop looking to be an ally and just start being John Brown. The article up on Substack is Dr. Stacey Patton said, John Brown didn't ask enslaved people how to be a good white ally. She goes on to valorize John Brown, who murdered murdered white people, murdered, went after, slave owners. And so the point here is that violence is a perfectly appropriate moral political tool for the left if applied to people they deem to be immoral. And as we've talked about today, that net has been cast very wide. If everybody that disagrees with you is immoral to the level of Hitler, and I guess J.D. Vance is

worse than that somehow. We'll have to dig in with Jensaki. But then that's why they can't wholeheartedly denounce violence. Yeah, this is a pathology, Will. I mean, I think you describe it well, but it's a pathology. It's a psychosis. And, you know, the strange thing is, is that is Nazism. Nazism is going after the people that you don't like and killing them and doing violence towards them. So it's funny that the thing that they say that they are fighting is the thing that they are becoming. But, you know, what it's leading to, Will, is, and this is a big part of the problem with progressive culture is, and sort of this, you know, exuberant individualism that progressive culture exhibits, you know, if I want to identify. as a rabbit, I can identify as a rabbit. If I want to identify as this gender or that gender, it's all about the individual. And you can take that to a ridiculous degree. But what is happening

on the left is an incredible nihilism where if you're offended by something, the rules just don't matter anymore. And you can do things like commit violence. And you can be the judge and the jury. And that kind of nihilism leads to complete anarchy and is the breakdown of the system. That is something that is such a twisted evolution of sort of progressive psychosis in this country is leading us to a really, really dangerous place. And I don't think these are isolated examples. I mean, this professor who I think is not probably a, you know, sort of a second-rate professor, doesn't have any, particularly hasn't done anything to distinguish. He's sort of following the Herbert Marcuse, Franz Fannin model of if you don't have any distinguished distinction academically,

the best thing to get attention is to attack the West or say outrageous things. But this kind of thing is happening pervasively in academic culture. You saw the celebration in public schools and in university faculty lounges of the assassination of Charlie Kirk. and you're seeing it, you're seeing it widespread online, and you're seeing it, you know, you saw it, we talked about this as well, you saw it in 2024 when these pro-Hamas protesters were going around attacking Jewish students and the federal government was doing nothing about it. This is a major problem. It is increasingly tolerated on the left, and it leads to complete anarchy at the end. And the fact that, the Democrats sort of don't understand, think these are isolated instances that can be explained away and don't understand. This is a systemic problem. It's a cancer that's growing is another sign that the party is just completely out of touch with reality, in my view. Let's take a quick break, but continue this conversation with the former Chief Counsel for

the House Judiciary Committee. Julian Epstein, I want to ask him, is it corruption or justice for Trump to seek $230 million from the DOJ? We speak business. We speak startup funding and comprehensive game plans. We've mastered made-to-measure growth and expansion advice, and we can talk your ear-off about transferring your business when the time comes. Because at Desjardin business, we speak the same language you do. Business.

So join the more than 400,000 Canadian entrepreneurs who already count on us, and contact Desjardin today. We'd love to talk, business. I want to ask you about two. issues that I think you can bring a level of insight and expertise on. I want to start with this poll out this morning that it shows four in ten, say illegal immigrants who haven't committed crime should still be deported. It does show a nation that's somewhat divided on the deportation of illegal immigrants. The easy stuff has already begun. That is closing the border and that is

deporting illegal immigrants guilty of another crime other than simply illegal immigration. But the question of where we move as a society next is one that I think is worthy of a much deeper and better conversation. And that is what do we do, first, with the illegal immigrants in this country, who might be living here for a long time. And second, I think there is a much worthier conversation that should be had about the appropriate embrace of legal immigration. But let's just stay on this for a moment. What do you think about this, Julian, for some of us, it seems intuitive. If you broke the law, you came in inappropriately, you should be deported, you shouldn't be in America if you're here illegally. It's hard, anecdotally, on occasions, because I'm sure in all of our lives, we know someone who is certainly living in a place like Texas, I do.

You know someone who is an illegal immigrant, and you don't wish harm on them as individuals, but you also live in a civil society where you understand there's a reason that we have laws. There's a reason that we have rules, and you've got to obey those rules. If I had a really good friend who got busted for going 120 miles an hour in a 35 mile an hour zone, I wouldn't go, man, I really like you. So I guess we shouldn't apply the law. So I don't know why we as a country all of a sudden decide this is a law that doesn't matter. For others, I think they just can't get past that anecdotal thing that we all experience. I don't want my friend to be deported because he's a good person. He just came here illegally.

well that's a there's a lot to unpack there well that's a well stated question um first all on the polls uh the four and ten uh support for deportation of illegals even if they didn't commit a crime there are polls that are higher than that there are polls that show five and ten six and ten support that and trump ran on that so the idea that you have this you have this successionist idea on the left that even though they lost the election and the law calls for deportation of people who are not legally here, Obama deported 3 million, that they should somehow be able to engage in insurrectionist-like activities to block the law from being enforced. I mean, this is exactly what the secessionists did during the civil war.

It's just that now the left is using similar tactics because they don't like the object of the federal law enforcement. So there is much greater support than I think even in that poll shows. But secondly, I think Trump sort of needs to make the case here that one of the reasons that there is so much support for. the deportation of illegals is not because you're trying to be a bad person, not because you're trying to be unchristian, not because you're trying to be harsh, but because the massive influx of illegals is pushing down wages for working Americans, particularly in rural America. And in ways that the unemployment rates don't necessarily reflect, what you see particularly in rural America and large parts of suburban America are the wages have been suppressed

for decades now in large part or at least in part because of migration and people are underemployed even though they may not be unemployed they're underemployed remember six and ten four and ten americans of working age aren't in the workforce right now so there is a major impact that illegal immigration has on the labor market in terms of suppressing wages that trump ran on fixing and he's doing exactly what the american people elected him to do and If you want to see an example of what happens with unassimilated immigration, I mean, we're all, I'm a son of immigrants. My parents immigrated. I'm first generation.

I'm for illegal immigration. I'm all for it. But if you want to see what happens when you have massive amounts of illegal immigration coming in and when the immigrants don't assimilate, look at what's happening in Birmingham, England right now. The authorities in Birmingham, England, there's a soccer match going on. and the authority with an Israeli team, and the authorities there told Israeli fans, Jewish fans, not to come because they couldn't guarantee their safety. Birmingham, England is becoming plurality Muslim right now. And the job of law enforcement is to protect the targets of violence, not to protect the perpetrators of violence. But in Birmingham, which has become very politicized, where many of the sort of the migrant population believes in Sharia law,

They are bowing to the extreme racists in that place and saying, we are going to go complete sectarian. We're going to go full Nazi. We're going to keep the Jews out. And this is what happens when you have massive millions upon millions of people coming into a country that may not share the values of the local country. And that's, by the way, that's not an issue limited by debates over legal versus illegal immigration. That's an issue that is about assimilation. And that's why I say we got a comment. conversation as well about legal immigration. You know, you say, I'm all for legal immigration. Everybody

says that. I say that. We all say that. But that's only a conversation starter. That's not a conversation ender. The point from there forward after legal immigration is from where, who, at what rate, and how can we guarantee assimilation? 100%. I mean, look, this is this is a good example. You're a Republican. I'm a Democrat. I think you're a Republican. I'm a Democrat. But here are two reasonable people, open-minded people coming to sort of come to an agreement on something that's reasonable. And I completely agree with you on that. You have unassimilated immigration. You have a system that breaks down because you break down the social compact. A democracy depends on a social compact where you trust the other person and the other people to believe in the same system that

you believe in and then we're all pulling in the same direction as a country. And that's the social contact on which democracy depends. You bring in groups of people that don't buy into the ethos, don't buy into the Bill of Rights, don't buy into the Western Judeo-Christian tradition. It's not that they have to be Jewish or Christian, but they do have to buy into the value system that emanates from the Judeo-Christian tradition. If they don't buy into that and they sort of want to set up their own system, they don't believe in the Bill of Rights, they don't believe in free speech, they don't believe in pluralism, you have a system that is not going to last very long. And that is really, I think, what the immigration issue is about, certainly what it's

about in Europe. It's somewhat what it is about here, although I think it's also about labor markets here. And if I had to fault Trump on any part of this, I would fault him for not going out and explaining publicly why this is such an important issue for our democracy and for our culture. This needs to be explained in much, much clearer terms. No doubt. This has to be a conversation that I think has had some level of taboo around it in the past, and I'm done with that taboo. This is this is civilizational level conversation. Right. Before you go, Julian, you were chief counsel for the House Judiciary Committee, your attorney, so I wanted to ask you about this. So this is the talking point on the left.

It's a really big deal today. Trump said to demand Justice Department pay him $230 million for past cases. Here's the subhead. Senior department officials who were defense lawyers for the president and those in his orbit are now in jobs that typically must approve any such payout, underscoring potential ethical conflicts. So here's what I want to ask you. I don't know about a quote-unquote payout. I do know there's such a thing as malicious prosecution and that a previous defendant now plaintiff can sue for malicious prosecution. That's a thing. Now there's hurdles to get over. There's sovereign immunity. There's prosecutorial immunity and so forth. But the government doesn't get, you know, a complete get-out-of-jail-free card. You can sue the

government if they maliciously prosecuted you. And, you know, Trump has won all of his cases, you know, I guess outside of the New York. The New York is, and has he won that one now on appeal? He got knocked down. The judgment got knocked down on appeal. Which, there's two New York cases. Uh, yeah, the, the, the, the one where you got the big, big judgment on the, on the fraudulent book entries, that's the one where you got, it's on a 50 million dollars, we got knocked down. But he got most of the money, 500 million. He got most of the money knocked down. Um, and that is also on appeal. Um, that both the award and the judgment is on appeal. Um, and the New York case, the brag case, I think is also going to fall. Okay. So, most of these cases are going to fall. Um, there are we. They were politically driven. And they would fit the definition.

I did look up some stuff of malicious prosecution. I don't think it would be a super hard case to prove. I don't know what kind of damages he could get. I don't know where this $230 million number comes from. But people point out, well, but he is president now, and the DOJ works for him. So he'd have to get a special counsel or something. He'd have to separate himself because he's kind of suing himself. And it's a payout to himself of taxpayer dollars.

Yeah, but if he was maliciously prosecuted like any other defendant, doesn't you have a right to sue for malicious prosecution? Yeah, but all those things that you said are not necessarily at odds with each other. I think I was extremely critical of the Trump prosecutions, as you know, as I was of prosecutions that I thought were politically motivated on Democrats. And there is a process for a malicious prosecution to be compensated for your costs, particularly your attorney's fees. And I think Trump is within his right to pursue that.

where this $230 million number came from, I have no idea. That sounds quite excessive to me. And I think if Trump wants to pursue it, he's perfectly in his right to pursue it. But there has to be because the appearance of a president demanding money from the government, there has to be some type of separation, some type of ethical system built into it so that it, you know, it doesn't become what his opponents are attacking him for, which is the president commanding the Treasury, you know, right at a big, about check to him. So all of these things can be true. This can be malicious prosecution. He can have rights to recover, but it can also be abused. And he has so many things going for him right

now. He is, for the most part, winning on almost every issue. He doesn't need distractions like this. He doesn't need people, you know, playing the corruption card against him when he's doing so many other things. And it's sort of easy to fix this and use the right procedures to take away the argument that this is just a president abusing a system and demanding the Treasury write them a big fat check. So this is something that White House counsel ought to be able to fix pretty easily. That's fair from a political standpoint. But I don't know, before everybody runs to corruption, I think there's a legitimate legal argument to be made here. Now, maybe it's bad politics because you're going to have to endure the corruption, the corruption allegations.

But it's worth looking into deeper. Like, is this not a legitimate claim from President Trump, who endured years and multitude of prosecutions and lawsuits that he had to be drug through. And it had a real cost to him. No doubt about it. I don't argue. I don't argue that point. Again, these things are not mutually contradictory. I don't argue the point that he's got a claim to make. And I don't argue the point that there were many malicious prosecutions that were made against him that were completely political and lawfare. But at the same time, I think you have to have a process set up so that you are following precedent and you are following the rules that have been used in the past for malicious prosecutions whereby you can get compensated for your costs in a malicious prosecution, but it doesn't become pay dirt. So I think this is something that they ought to be able to figure out.

Yeah, I mean, I can see how one could see it as dirty if you don't look into the legitimacy of the claim, which would be the requirement of anybody. who's a true thinker, looking at the legitimacy of the claim, and also understanding what you're saying, you don't want to set up any appearance or precedent for corruption. I know you'd have something good to say on that. Julian Epstein, former Chief Counsel for the House Judiciary Committee. Great being with you, Will. All right, Julian, let's leave it there. All right, great to do with you. I've got to get to the guys from Trilogy Media. Look forward to seeing you again next time, Julian. I got to get to the guys from Trilogy Media because they have a new Fox Nation show out, scammed, getting even.

It's up on Fox Nation, and a lot of people I've already seen in the comments section excited about talking to these guys, they get even. They help expose. If you've been scammed, romantically, financially, they go get them. They help you get them. And they're next on Wilcane Country. Ontario, the wait is over. The gold standard of online casinos has arrived.

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Gambling problem call connects Ontario 1866-531-260-19 and over, physically present in Ontario. Eligibility restrictions apply. See Golden Nuggettcasino.com for details. Please play responsibly. Scammed, Getting Even, Catching these online predators that have milked some people out of millions. It is Will Cain Country, streaming live at the Will Cain Country YouTube channel, but follow us on Spotify or on Apple. Art Kulik and Ashton Bingham are the host of Scammed Getting Even. They've been doing this for a while, and it's a pretty fascinating story of catching the bad guys. And look at them all dressed up, I believe.

I don't know who that is in the tux. I don't know if that's Ashton or Art, but that is a hell of a way to make an appearance here today. What's up, fellas? That would be art. That will be art. We honor. Thank you so much for having us.

Thanks for having as well. Yeah, I'm glad to have you on the program. Let's start with where you started. So you guys, talk to me about how you got into this, like, okay, we're going to go catch some of these people that are, you know, bilking people out of, in some of these cases, in some of these episodes, we're going to talk about millions.

I'd say we both have had a passion for justice pretty much our whole life. I think Art and I first met each other linked up about 2010, 2011. We both had aspirations and dreams of being content creators kind of operating on our own fruition, but never really had the right vehicle for it. And then in 2016, I took a call from an IRS scammer and wasted his time expecting a three or four minute exchange. It was like a 50-minute exchange, and the video went crazy viral. it morphed into this thing where him and I were already partnered up. You know, trilogy already existed. Right. We already had a, you know, a mission of making content, but then the scam baiting

was the vehicle. And we were able to be ourselves kind of like an impractical jokers type of dynamic against scammers. And then as things progressed, we've always been risk takers. And, you know, we started learning how linked these scams are in the States. It's not just call centers on the other side of the globe. So we're like, let's go talk to these people. Let's ask questions. And it kind of just grew from there. Back in the day's scam baiting community was, it was such a niche. And only few channels that were existed over there, like at that time. It was like very voice driven, not face, right?

So it's like hacker stuff. So me and Ashton were like, all right, so we're already doing things together. And let's, like, now we have this viral video. Now we have like this expose that happened. Let's go learn. Let's see what happened. Let's be boots on the ground. Follow the money.

You're going to find the bad guy. And then, you know, just keep camera rolling. Sitting in the bushes, waiting until cash mules, bad guys show up to rob elderly people. And we're still fighting to bring awareness to masses. And back in the days, it's like, you go to Walgreens, you want to target, and you see elderly people being on a phone with scammers, going to give card section, and they're paying their taxes with gift cards. So, yeah, we are blessed that we have a show right now on Fox,

and we can educate Americans about these issues. Let's talk about one of these cases, and we'll use this as a way to kind of illustrate how this all goes down for you. And just looking through the episodes, it stands out to me because the amount of money that Carol was taken for. So Caitlin calls you guys about her aunt Carol. And the scammer has taken her aunt for $3.5 million, which I got so many questions. Was that over a period of time? Was that a bunch of installments? was that one big wot? I mean, that's a lot of money, fellas.

What's funny is that story was, I think, I'd have to check with Eli, but I'm pretty sure that was maybe the first submission we looked at when we first started, like, you know, looking for stories for this show, and it obviously caught our eye. Yeah, it was over a period of about two years. Right. It was several installments. It was to several different entities, one or two that kind of took the majority. But this was unlike any story we've ever heard. And I think it's gone from being maybe our biggest unknown episode to our strongest one. And correct me if I'm wrong, I'm pretty sure that's going to be the sixth one because it's just so unpredictable and crazy. It was like a hybrid of a romance scam, but it's not like it was a mystery romance.

Like she, it's her actual boyfriend in person. And it spanned four or five different countries, multiple trips for them. Who's a frog, by the way, that boyfriend? Yeah. And so I won't spoil any endings. But it's a mind-boggling amount of money and has so many layers to this story beyond money that it's going to blow your mind. Every single scam originated from somewhere. And this type of scam, like Ashen said, it's a hybrid between a Roman scam because she got into relationship with this scammer.

But also, it's investment scheme. You know, he approached and said like, hey, you know, you want to be in the middle. You want to invest $600,000 from the beginning. Somebody's buying, somebody's selling. Let's go to Africa. and the like 26 kilograms of gold. You can make money, commissions. And she invested 600, then another installments, then another,

and it's got to the point that family is like, all right, enough is enough. We need to help. A lot of these is the hook romance. I know that romance is part of many of them. But there's got to be a way, and I'm sure there's also an age demographic on the victims that has a high. higher appearance rate. Look, I think we all get something. We get calls, we get emails, and I ignore almost everything. So how do they hook people into not ignoring the initial

overture? By quantity, to be honest. And, you know, yeah, older people, of course, are targeted more heavily their lack of technology experience for, you know, a number of reasons, especially maybe some that are in their older years that may have lost a spouse. You catch them at the wrong moment, wrong period of life. They're more vulnerable to fall for something like this. It's not always romance, though. It's all, I mean, it takes literally any shape, any form, especially now with technology and AI.

But it's quantity. You know, you send out a billion robocalls or a billion spam texts, even if 0.1% of people even respond to it. That's still a massive pool of potential victims for these guys. They're not looking for quantity in most cases. They're looking for, or not looking for quality. They're looking for quantity because, you know, whoever responds, they're just going to, they already know that's going to be a prime target for them.

And I think it's mess lead that people think that only elderly people getting a scam, and that's why you're absolutely right. There is a scam for every single person, for every single age demographic. You're getting your emails, you're getting, you're buying, you misspelled Delta Peltas, something happened. And it's already on a different booking platforms, cruises scams, you're getting Amazon overcharged, you're getting Costco, you're paying toll roads with QR code that you haven't paid your parking ticket. Now that everything happening online, and especially after a pandemic, when people working remotely from home, employees scams, how many people just thinking they're getting like $150 an hour in amazing opportunity to work for Target, and it's a scam.

So I think it's just, again, awareness, and we have to educate every single one of us how to avoid those scams and red flags. Oh, Art, now you bring that up. I got scammed on the parking thing. That one got me. I was out of town. I was in San Antonio. I found a little parking lot. I did the deal where you do the QR code or whatever. I thought I paid. And then I got an email, I think it was, or maybe in physical mail. I can't remember. And it looked super official. It looked like I got a ticket. And it had a picture of my vehicle, like taken from one that was clearly a camera that was in the parking lot. And I was like, I wonder why I got a ticket. Did I overstay? You know, how long I'd paid for. And I can't remember what the cost was. It's called 50 bucks. 70 bucks, something like that. And I think we paid it. I think my wife and I paid it. And then it wasn't until later, we're like, oh, I'd heard about this parking scam. I was like that's what that was. I didn't actually get a ticket. It just looked like I got a ticket.

And that's a good example of catching somebody at the right moment or a wrong moment. You were traveling. You were probably had other things on your mind, not worried about paying whatever the parking was. They just happened to get that at the right moment where you may not have been thinking about it. And that's a tiny example of the bigger picture of you know, what can happen when these victims fall victim, whether it's a tech support thing that they just don't know what they're doing or literally like a change in life where they have a romantic interest that gives them the attention that they so desperately need. So it could be a myriad of reasons, but that's an example. Okay. So you, you, I think, I think it was art that

brought up earlier. One of you guys mentioned, you know, this, in our minds, this is like halfway across the world. This is happening in some Eastern European call center. Russian hackers, but I mean, obviously not, that's not the case because you guys are confronting many of these guys in person. You're meeting them, right? So tell me about some of these guys that you're interacting with and then how they react when you show up. Well, that's something that we learned, you know, when we got into this. Like, we, you know, we opened our brand in 2016 and we didn't start confronting people in person until 2020. But, you know, we, just like most other people, had this assumption that, you know, you get a robocall or a text or something, and it's,

oh, it's just, it's from an international number, it's just some scammer or some group of scammers in another country. And that is true. But then when you actually, what we do, scam baiting, pretend to be victims and just let the scammers do their thing so we can learn about it and bait them into making mistakes, you know, you realize that, wait, no, it's not just this group of scammers. For instance, the tech support scam, which is a pop-up or a refund scam type of thing originates from India, but it's not just a call center in India. They need to get the money out of the victim's hands and they need to get it to the boss's hands in India and it's not so easy to do that you can't just make a payment or pay with American Express

they have to launder the money through a series of steps and to do that they need people locally in the states whether that's an LLC bank account that is only meant to receive money from victims under the ruse of some kind of tech support thing or an actual person called a cash mule that'll show up to your grandmother's house and take her life savings and launder it overseas into India so when we started discovering how deep this goes and how much more complex than you might think just reading it on paper. I was like, wow, there's an unknown ocean of dirt here that we need to shine a light on.

And, you know, we've had some great experiences confronting them, but we get a whole range of reactions. And mafia, again, you know, when people doing illegal stuff, you know, legal activities, whatever they do, drugs and whatever, it's like we found out that Indian mafia works with Asian mafia. That's like when we do confrontation in California, me and nation, we live in California, we go to Bay Area. And for some reason, cashmule after cashmule is like Asian.

And we're like, why, why this ethnicity? And then we start working with police together, right? Like we, whatever we investigate, we always, you know, whatever you need, please take it. And then we find out like, oh, so two mafias join, you know, to scam elderly people, scam Americans, and money has to be moved. Yeah, it can get spicy sometimes. We went to India. That's... That's not, you know, I was reading, and I haven't seen some of the episodes yet, but, you know, Arkansas shows up, you know, so I thought, wow, they're getting these guys in Arkansas.

But now you, now you're bringing up mafia. I mean, I mean, this is dangerous, fellas. Yeah, we've never been one to, you know, turn a blind eye to a, you know, a healthy risk, you know. It's, yeah, it's dangerous, but like, you know, I don't know, anything can happen, I guess, at any time in life. We've always just been ones to set ourselves apart, and this is fascinating to us. We love this. We love doing this. We love learning and we love taking our audience from even from day one. Even if nothing happens at the end or we don't find the guy.

It's like it's still nerve-wracking for us to do the thing. So we like to take the audience along the same journey that we felt. And yeah, Arkansas, like shout out to them. Like now we're actually getting law enforcement collaboration to make in-person arrests on the spot from scam baits, which is unprecedented. So I think we're moving in the right direction and now that we see some federal indictments dropping from this kind of thing. and, you know, I think real change. I mean, we're never going to run out of people to chase, but, you know, I think real change is happening.

The stuff that we accomplished this year, and especially with this show and working with Fox and bringing this amazing six series to Fox Nation, it's never been done before. Like, we've been pitching this idea for half a decade. Fox came and like, all right, guys, I know it's very out of box, but it has to happen because it's becoming cybersecurity pandemic.

Everybody getting scammed. Why we're not talking about this? Why there is no signs in targets? Walmarts and stuff, do not pay your taxes with gift cards. A lot of things. And in Arkansas happened. John Montgomery, Sheriff, shout out to him, said like, guys, enough is enough. Every single, like, there is a population of that city, 70% elderly people, and they're getting scammed, one by one, people losing houses, people losing lives. And Sheriff said, enough is enough. FBI, Homeland Security, local PD, any PD, let's go.

Let's do this Stinghouse operation. And we had amazing success. Did you guys ever see that movie, Beekeeper, Jason Stratum? Oh, yeah. You know what, interesting, actually. That's who you guys are? You're like the beekeeper. That's the whole premise of the movie, right?

It goes after the scammers. Less bullets and less axes and stuff. There are some factual inconsistencies in it, but I did appreciate how deep they went with the actual description of a scam. It was pretty accurate, and, you know, it was a good watch. Fun fact, actually, I don't remember. Part of Warner Bros., which studio produced this movie,

they came, the PR team came after every single scam baiter, and they were like, all right, guys, we need help to promote this movie. So we were not part of it, but, yeah, but I know a lot of scam baiters, they participated. Yeah. Last question for you, and you hinted at this earlier, like finding the bad guy behind the bad guy. Is there, you know, there's a lot of levels, as you both pointed out, the cash mule, the people getting it over to India or whatever may be.

Is there a defined group of mafia or organized crime in some country or another that is behind most of this? Is it a couple of groups that it's behind most of this or is it truly chaotic and there's a hundred different scams? Once you chase it to the end of the rainbow, there's a hundred different criminals. There are concentrated guilty parties in certain areas for certain types of scams, not for scams in general. I think you're going to find good and bad people in any country, any corner of the earth.

But I think based on cultural norms and skill sets of certain areas are where certain types of scams will be more prolific. India, huge for tech support. Nigeria, huge for romance scams. It's just the way it is. A lottery scam. Jamaica. All we can do is follow where the phone calls take us or the emails take us or the money takes us.

But yeah, you'll see that in certain cultures. Every organized crime, every organized crime has some countries, some cultures that end up dominating it. The drug trade, you can chase it back. It's going to get to Central and South America for various reasons. You know, there's going to be big organized crime along the way. I mean, actually, that's just for cocaine. and, you know, you'll get to Afghanistan and Southeast Asia if you're chasing heroin at some point.

I was just curious where, you know, and it's interesting, different types of scams will end you up in different places on the globe. Yeah. Yeah, sometimes people are trying to get like, oh, this is more cultural or this is more your nationality, and we're like, we don't go after nationalities or culture. We go after a bad guy.

I don't care from this bad guy came from. From my country, from Russia, from Belarus, from Spain, from Italy. We want to see who is that the final destination of the money. You took money from our elderly people who work all their lives, losing, cashing up 401K, losing houses. What happened with money? And we go and it takes time.

And we're never going to run out of guys to hunt. But if with this show we can raise awareness and follow these scams and show how they operate in order to educate people on what to look for and not fall for, then, hey, we've done our job. And thanks to Fox Nation for letting us do it. And, yeah, and it'll be entertaining along the way. Ashton Bingham and Art Kulik, the show is scammed, getting even. It's up on Fox Nation.

The guy's been doing this for a while. It's fun that it's breaking through, and we're glad to have you here on Fox. Thank you, fellas. Will, thank you so much. Thank you so much for having us. Be aware. You've been. All right.

Be aware. Be aware. Be aware. Before we walk out today, I believe Two of Days, Dan, is going to help our guests get out of the studio. So that means I'm going to bring in tinfoil Pat to take me through what is his passion today in final take. So tinfoil Pat. That's right, Will. So we have the Colorado Avalanche have announced that they are going to be wearing Quebec Nourniques uniforms this year.

In addition to that, the Carolina Hurricanes are also wearing Hartford Whaler uniforms. So it might be close to Dan's heart, a former bandit guy. To me, and we see teams in the NFL do this, these cities stole these teams from these other cities, and now they're essentially wearing their skins, their jerseys like skins. It's like, what are they doing? Like, what do you think?

Like the Tennessee Titans when they wear the Houston Oilers. It's like they're just sitting there. mocking the cities if they stole it. Do you know who I just referenced? Oh, yeah. Who? Ed Gein. The serial killer?

I just watched that. Oh, yeah, yeah. Exactly. The Monster series on Netflix, what he did. He did serial kill, we think. But one thing he for sure did is Rob Graves. He was a gray robber. And then he would do horrible things with the bodies.

Horrible, horrible things with the bodies. And he made a skin suit. It was one of the things that he did. Well, they took my whaler skin. That's what Patrick said. That's what Patrick said the abs are doing I was pissed I was like 12 when that happened

I was pissed them taking the whalers Yeah It's a great It's a great name by the way The whalers And the logo is probably one of the best logos And any sport

Can pay up right up there with maybe the Milwaukee Brewers Glove There were protests in Hartford when I was young When it happened Because of the usage of the negative spacing too. The H is in there. Graphic design, Pat.

Listen to what I'm talking about. Listen, he's such a uniform czar. He wants to be the uniform czar. You should just go be a mascot somewhere. I've been asking President Trump, but I haven't heard anything back. Oh, you haven't gotten back to you yet? No, I mean, we need to go on truth. I'll see.

I can see if I could push that forward for you. I can't imagine that conversation is going to go, but I could I could try. Needs to happen. Mr. President, I got a guy. Here's a guy. He's super into uniforms. Okay?

Tell me more. And then I don't know when we go from here. And he wants to be in charge of uniform design across all professional leagues. I like it. He likes aesthetics. He could like it. I don't care who it is. Let's make it happen.

I also love the name Whalers. I'm huge. as you know, on... I just want unique, regionalized sports team names. That's what I want. I don't... And I will say, Carolina Hurricanes, not bad. It's unique.

It's regionalized. You know, I don't really know what a Nordique is, but to leave Nordiques behind, it sounds something northern, Canadian, I guess, I don't know. Whalers, perfect. By the way, Colorado Avalanche, pretty good. I think that's a pretty good branding. It was the most iconic...

You like, most iconic jersey was the Colorado Avalanche. You're talking about Whalers or Avalanche? Avalanche, avalanche. Aren't the Avalanche, the Whalers, or is it the Hurricanes that are the Whalers? The Hurricanes are the Whalers. The Hurricanes are the Whalers. The Avalanche are the Nourniques. Okay, Nordiques.

I am so pissed about taking away the Colorado Avalanche. It's the best one. What do you mean, taking it away? It's still there. True. But it's still the best one. Sorry. I'm still thinking about, I'm still thinking about getting scammed in that last year session. It could have been really bad, though, because they were supposed to be the Rocky Mountain extreme when they moved. Really?

Yes. Yeah, I don't like that. I don't like that. Yeah, I'm sad for you, but there's never going to be a team in Hartford again. That city's too small. No way. Can't do it. It was probably pretty cool. It was probably pretty cool to have a professional team in a town that small. but it made for a nice thing to rally around there in Connecticut, but nope. And I don't mind it. I don't mind it if the city doesn't have a team.

So I don't mind that they're wearing this stuff in honoring their heritage. I don't like it when the Titans wear the Oilers. That I don't like. And I understand that they retained the IP and all that. But now there's a new team in Houston. And the Oilers are Houston. They're not Tennessee. So if there were a new team in Hartford, I'd be more upset about it, you know, or Quebec.

But there's not. So I think I'm okay with honoring that heritage. All right. One more quick in final takes. All right. So Todd Furman got dragged for this tweet. He said, college football parody is great until we get USF and Georgia Tech in the first round and nobody watches. Tell me I'm wrong and tell me I'm an elitist, but the ratings won't lie.

would you i mean like he's not wrong he's not wrong i mean people people are up in arms over it they're saying no he's not would you are first of all are you watching ucf georgia tech in the first round of the college football playoff i think jordan tech's pretty good that's not what i asked no i'm not i don't watch a lot of football anymore do you think the ratings would be good for ucf Do you think the ratings would be good for that game? In southern Florida they would be. I'm sure they're going to be terrible. Well, USF isn't even nothing here.

I don't. And I got to tell you, I don't, I don't, there's nothing I'd do about it. I wouldn't kick them out. That's not the point. Like, I don't know if Furman's arguing for that, but we can't pretend that everybody's going to like it. USF, Georgia Tech, if that's what happens, no. People aren't going to. like it. And, but she, I mean, I'm all for, is the word meritocracy on this? Because I just

want representation. I'm okay. USF would be the group of, what do we call it now? The group of six, group of four, group of five. I don't know what the group is anymore. The group of five team. And the presumption here is Georgia Tech, your ACC representative. And they are leading the ACC, right? Aren't they in first place right now in the ACC, ahead of Miami, obviously head of Clemson. SMU's up there. SMU's undefeated in the ACC. I got three ACC helmets on the table,

rivaling the SEC. You need an independent up there. One of an ACC guy. You're big talker. Send that golden helmet. I need to find where to find one. Send that golden helmet. The militia are requesting a P.O. box for where it's in helmets to you.

You want fan mail well? Oh, okay. We'll have to figure that out. I need a P.O. box. Yeah. Yeah, we'll have to figure that out. We'll just keep accumulating helmets until the whole desk is helmets. You can't even take it off before the TV show.

That's going to do it for us today. Make sure you follow us on Spotify or app. We'll be back again, same time, same place, right here tomorrow. See you next time. Listen to ad-free with a Fox News podcast plus subscription on Apple Podcast. And Amazon Prime members, you can listen to this show, ad-free, on the Amazon music app.