Will Cain Country - One-On-One With Actor Kevin Costner! PLUS, 'Off The Rails' With Pete Hegseth

Episode Date: June 26, 2024

Story #1: The U.S. Supreme Court opens the door to the “ministry of misinformation.” Are Big Brother and censorship back? Co-Host of FOX & Friends Weekend, Pete Hegseth, joins Will to go ‘Off The Rails’ again. Story #2: Will goes one-on-one with actor, director, and producer Kevin Costner to discuss Kevin’s new movie, Horizon, and the need for leadership in America. Story #3: What was it like to be around an old school movie star? Will gives you a quick glimpse behind the scenes.   Tell Will what you thought about this podcast by emailing [e-mail]   Subscribe to The Will Cain Show on YouTube here: Watch The Will Cain Show!   Follow Will on Twitter: @WillCain Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

One, the Supreme Court of the United States opens the door to the Ministry of Disinformation. Welcome back to censorship. They're back, Big Brother. Two, one-on-one with actor, director, producer of the brand-new movie Horizon, one-on-one with Kevin Cost. Three, what's it like to sit down for 20 minutes with a movie star? How does Kevin Costner behind the scenes compare to Donald Trump? Compare to Dwayne the Rock Johnson. It is the Will Kane show streaming live at Fox News.com on the Fox News YouTube channel and the Fox News Facebook page.

Always on demand wherever you get your audio entertainment. Sometimes you may stream at the Will Cain show live every day at 12 o'clock Eastern Time on YouTube or on Facebook. Sometimes you may listen to it on terrestrial radio from coast to coast. But if you ever want to just hit it on your time, you just subscribe at Apple or Spotify or right here on YouTube. And you can watch the Will Cain show on your time on demand. You know, there's this new concept. Two at A's Young Establishment, James, 10-foot path, there's this new concept going around. out there called raw dogging now don't jump don't go too quick I don't want you to guess

what that means raw dogging there's this new thing going around called raw dogging on airplanes still slow down don't jump ahead it means doing nothing on a plane it means pulling a putty two days remember putty from Seinfeld are you too young for Seinfeld little too young I just missed out on it there was a scene when Elaine who was dating putting putty, who was a big New Jersey Devils fan, gets on an airplane and does nothing. He just stares at the back of a seat and she goes, what are you going to do? Aren't you going to, you know, you're going to read a magazine? You're going to, you're going to listen to something?

He goes, no, I'm good. I'm good. And it's just serial killer stuff. And it completely weirds are out. Now young people, I don't know, Gen Z. They're raw dogging. They're going three-hour flights, seven-hour flights, seeing how long they can go on an airplane, not watching a single movie, not listening to any music, not reading anything.

We're going to get into that a little bit later here on Off the Rails with Pete Heggshead. But I'm not raw dogging. Yesterday, I didn't around the world tour. And by the way, as part of what I did, I'm reading a book right now, and I burned through a good 150 pages yesterday. It's called the Wide Wide Sea. It's by Hampton Sides. And, you know, this is the kind of thing that floats my boat. It's about, you know, explorers in the age of exploration.

And this one's about Captain James Cook, who quote unquote discovered Hawaii. And it's just kind of fascinating to read this story about these guys, you know, living on the edge of civilization, on the edge of survival, traveling thousands and thousands of miles across the world. And it taking weeks and months and years. And here I am flying to California yesterday from Dallas to interview a movie star driving an hour and a half to Camp Pendleton Marine Corps base between San Diego and Los Angeles, driving two. hours, touched by the hand of God, not hitting a single bit of Los Angeles traffic, and then flying back to Dallas all in one day. And I did kind of, as I'm reading this about these dudes getting scurvy because of lack of access to citrus for months on end, I did sit there, you know, and think, wow, the modern miracle of travel. As I read about

their travails and think I have it hard because I did all of that in one day. But I didn't raw dog it. I spent about, I don't know, 10 hours with Captain James Cook. Let's talk about raw dogging. And whether or not the Supreme Court just reopened the door to the Ministry of Disinformation, if Big Brother is back, Big Brother Biden. Let's get into all that with story number one. He is my co-host on Fox and Friends Weekend.

He is my co-host of Off the Rails. He's my co-host of Off the Grid. He is Pete Hegseth. What's up, man? I haven't seen you in a while. It's been like a whole 10 days. I know. I have been truly off the grid.

I don't know half the stories you're talking about right now. Because I've been leading a basketball camp in my driveway for the last three days. This is an homage to you, though, by the way. I hope we talk a little bit about your payback to Tyrus. But while I was gone, you became the celebrity whisperer of Fox News. Who knew? Phone a celebrity. Will Kane's there ready to go. I look forward to hearing about your take. I mean, I've never met Kevin Costner. I don't know what he's actually like. It'll be fascinating. I have a lot of thoughts on that. I'll break down a little bit later here on the Wilcane show. Pete is wearing a Larry Legend shirt. It seems that the pendants I have to pay for the Mavericks losing to Celtics knows no end. By the way, you weren't on Fox and Friends for my reveal of paying off my bet to Tyrus. I got a text from a buddy. head set that said we got to talk about this this is me uh wearing that nuff said uh backwards hat

muscle shirt horrified rachel and some attempt at a bicep flex i saw that you're gonna have your chance yeah you're gonna have your chance if you want if we revisit a week later on fox and friends but i got to give you your chance to take your shots here on the will can't yeah i mean i'll get my uh it was i replayed it four times in my household because my kids woke up at different times and and then they all wanted to see it. So it got replayed multiple, multiple times that morning. I give you much respect for owning it, just doing it. I know exactly what was going through the minds of producers.

They were freaking out. What's he doing? Why is he taking his shirt off? Are we going to get fired? Like, you had to push through all of that, no doubt. Which, by the way, really quick, you know, in order to get over that, I couldn't tell them what I was going to do. I said, don't worry about it.

It's going to be good. I'm paying off my debt. It's going to be all right. So all they knew is I needed about a minute or two. And here's another quick behind the scenes thing. Rachel really wanted to do a different subject. And she kept asking me, can you not do this at this point or that point? I'm like, Rachel, listen, I have to do this now.

I'm not trying to be selfish, but I have. And she was not into it. She was like, ugh. You know, like, what am I doing this sports thing? This Will Kane Show promo thing? Like, I'm not doing any of that. I'm just trying to be a big man here and pay off my bet. You could tell it.

She was not into it one bit. And then, you know what got you is the farmer's tan. It's just, I mean, you're in good shape. You just can't, you have a farmer's tan with a tank top, and it's just never going to look good. It's just can't work. So, I mean, I think, you know, she overplayed her hyperbole there. I would have done the 6 a.m. hour. I just think it's a rookie move to wait until 9 when everyone's watching.

You just do it right at the beginning, get the screenshot, send it to Tyrus. You're good to go. But I commend you. you texted me exactly and we have a little bit of the same mindset you lean all the way in you don't lean halfway in there and this you know when i have to have this conversation with myself the most the hardest thing for me to do on television is dance it's not eat it's not anything else that is you know destroying my dignity it's dancing i don't dance and as it is being a morning show host sometimes you have to dance so i have to tell myself will

don't go halfway, go all the way. So when I'm paying off this bet, man, I could go halfway and do it in the 6 a.m. hour, or I just lean in and go all the way and go 9 a.m. Absolutely. Did he choose all those items for you? Yes. Those were all selected by Tyrus. There you go. Then you owned it and you did it. And maybe you rethink it next time.

Get behind that squad against the best team in the world. I mean, the Celtics weren't going to be beaten, by your squad. But good job. Sooner or later, we'll leave behind the NBA finals. We will leave it behind right now, off the rails, sometimes veers back onto the tracks. And I do have, I think, one of the smartest minds, definitely in the political sphere with me right now. So I want to ask you, Pete, about the Supreme Court of the United States, who's ushering decisions as we speak, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday of this week. This morning, while we wait, decisions on whether

but not Donald Trump has presidential immunity. Yep. Among other big decisions, this morning, we get the decision that the plaintiffs in the case suing the United States of government for influencing social media companies. This included several individuals who had their content censored on Facebook or on X, on the Internet, and several states who wanted to protect the rights of their citizens

were told by the Supreme Court of the United States, you don't have standing to make this case. Now, standing a legal term that says, you know, the parties that bring a suit have to show injury, have to have jurisdictional appropriateness, among other things. So for the six justices that said you don't have standing, they basically punted Pete. They didn't say this is a violation of the First Amendment. They said, you don't have a, you don't have standing to make the case. This is a violation of the First Amendment.

Regardless of the legal argument, it reopens the door, which I think is in. Who are the justices? The Biden administration? Who are the six that said you don't have standing? Well, all but here are the three that dissented. It's Gorsuch, Thomas, and Alito. Okay. Those are the ones that dissented.

Gorsuch, Thomas. But the effect, the, and Alito, pretty much you would say probably. Probably the three most conservative justices, the three that are most likely to know what time it is right now. Yes. Certainly Alito and Thomas. whoever that third conservative justice is that might be the most quote unquote conservative or originalist probably trades hands

between Kavanaugh and Gorsuch but most likely most of the time Gorsuch but yeah man I mean this reopens this to all of that communication between you know the FBI and at that time it was X whoever the FBI and YouTube

the FBI and Facebook right as we approach the 2024 presidential election I just I'm not a lawyer you are and I know standing is something that's very important in I've come to understand these significance of standing so that people can't just bring arbitrary and capricious cases against the government non-stop. But if you're an individual who was whose content was taken down and you can draw a line between the pressure of the federal government on these private companies to take it down, then it seems to me you would have some level of

standing. And if it's, you know, you said Missouri and I think Louisiana and a bunch of individuals have come to, I don't know. This is where my legal knowledge fall short, but what it does feel like it reopens is the opportunity for the federal government, especially right now at the most significant of moments, to put its finger on the scale on at least most of the social media companies, save for X, which is now in free speech hands for the most part, but they will use it. If they think it was effective and they think it is, well, they don't care actually if it's constitutional. But if they've been affirmed even more that it's now not going to be contested constitutionally, it could go on hyperdrive. And we've heard them, well, we've reported

the show all the time. New names for new groups inside different departments that are meant to take on misinformation. They're not going to stop. So I think the argument for the individuals who might have had their content censored is you didn't suffer any real injury. So part of standing is, do you have any real injury? And you're right. It is a legitimate thing. It's not just about the government. It's about anybody. I can't. sue random corporation or random individual, unless I can show that there's some injury I have experienced due to their negligence or criminal behavior or whatever it may be. But here's the biggest takeaways for me.

First, on the legal side, and this is what people talk about a lot. So for these conservative justices that leaned into standing, the liberal justices don't care about the legal arguments. They will use standing. They will use standing as a legal, legitimate. legal technicality when they don't want to rule on the merits of a case, but when they do want to rule on the merits of a case, they'll happily go the other way withstanding. So if you run by principle and they run by expedience, you will lose many times. So that's a big takeaway from this.

But the other is, you know, one of the first times I remember talking about this, Pete, I was working before I joined ESPN and I was just doing, I was with the Blaze and I was doing hits on, you know, CNN and Fox and MSNBC. I remember being on Morning Joe, one of the few times about I was on morning, Joe. And I remember Barack Obama blaming, in essence, the Arab Spring on that random filmmaker. Do you remember that story? And the details are kind of fading in my memory. Yes. But he basically threw under the bus, like a filmmaker who had done something, you know, with Muhammad. And I was like, for the President of the United States to blame content and, and by extension, suppress free speech is beyond the pale. And we're so far beyond that. And we're so far beyond

that now. And what we're now, what we have to acknowledge this does is when the FBI calls you and says, hey, we think this is bad information, that is definitely suppression under the First Amendment. It's like the mafia saying, really nice story you have here. I sure would hate for something to happen to it. You know, that is what happens when the government gives you advice on misinformation, disinformation, how to handle the First Amendment. And your breakdown of the justices is precisely correct. And that's why I said there's three that know what time it is or seem to know what time it is. The left has definitely jumped the shark on the idea that we're calling balls and strikes here at the Supreme Court based on our fairest and most principled assessment

of what our founders were thinking. I mean, that's originalism. But even within, even if you're on a different part of the spectrum of originalism, you would attempt to call balls and strikes based on your understanding and fidelity to the Constitution. We know the hardcore three lefties on the court have no interest in that. that's why they would rule on standing. The disappointment is in, you know, your Kavanaugh's and your Roberts and your, um, Connie Barrett, who don't understand the significance of this. And they would probably call themselves free speech absolutists in other contexts, but in this case, because of standing or whatever reason they fell for a, that's, that's been, that's the disappointment of the court

oftentimes is that you get this weird mix of allegiances that doesn't make sense. And that's why those picks are so significant, but you're exactly right. And that's not a good ruling. I hadn't seen it until your show, but that's too bad. Well, I texted you yesterday, and your one word response to me was why. The new internet phenomenon of raw dogging. Now, I understand everybody thinking that I've somehow crossed some FCC barriers. I'm about to go into a subject that is completely inappropriate for cable news, but I'm not. Apparently, the modern day definition of raw dogging is to go on an airplane with no form of entertainment it's to have no book no music no movie and see how far you can go meaning three hour flight seven hour flight cross globe flight with nothing and apparently

some dudes peter take it even further like no food no water raw dog being on an airplane and your response to me was why you know as i thought about it you know what it is it's it's a desperate cry for more attention, right? That's what social media already is, is how much attention can I get from stuff that I do to enter? Well, if you do, turns out doing nothing for extended a period of time

can get you a lot of attention when you post at the end of it. That's the utility for these folks. It's not, I don't, listen, we've all set on flights for 45 minutes or an hour when you don't have anything to do and it's mind-numbing. I think some of them include you can watch the flight map,

flight map. So you can only have the flight map on your scene. So you can watch the, which is, which I would argue probably makes it more excruciating. You're just watching your flight slowly go across the earth, like watching a clock when you're waiting for something to be over. I mean, it's killer. So, and some of these flights are eight hours, 11 hours, no food, no nothing, just staring ahead. I mean, I bet people are falling asleep a lot. That has to be what happens. And that's got to be part of this raw dog and thing. It's stupid. It's a dumb phenomenon. Do you open your laptop? You and I are on flights every week. What do you do? Do you open your laptop and work? Do you organize your calendar and send emails? What do you do on these flights?

When I'm in the middle of writing books, Will, a huge chunk of my books are written on flights. So I'd say 25, 30, 35%. So flip that laptop open. You're captive for two hours. You don't take the Wi-Fi intentionally so that all you can do is the book. I do Bible study or I do emails. Yeah, and calendar and scheduling and catching up on tech or on people. Yeah, I mean, that's what I do, Will. Bible study. I'm over here watching, I'm over here watching perfect match on Netflix trying to hide my screen from my neighbor because I don't know if what I'm watching is a little bit over the line and you go over there looking at, you know, the book of Matthew. This is not.

That's a more recent phenomenon, Will. I'm no sate. I'm just saying it's a good, quiet time to be able to do that. Or I'll read a book on occasion, but it's sometimes a guilty pleasure time, too. It's not as if I'm, you know, sometimes you get on an Instagram stroll and that, you know, 15 minutes in, you knock your, knock your head. You're like, what are you doing? This is nonsense. I'm done watching stuff.

I mean, like, I've hit the bottom and I'm bored by everything. So I've gone back to reading and I'm loving it, man. And speaking of the flight map, I actually, there are times I enjoy the flight map. And I like the flight map if I'm sitting by the window. And this, I don't, I love you or in the best of time. I like looking out the window on a clear day and seeing the rivers and towns of America, somewhere between New York and Texas. And I always want to know where I am, like, which river is at?

And I know I cross the Ohio River and the Mississippi. And I'm always wondering, like, but what is that? And the flight map's not good enough. Like, sometimes it's good in some areas. lines are better than others but like I want to know what is that below me and I'm always like struggling with well can I get the internet sometimes I buy it sometimes I don't I would love a better way to track exactly what's underneath me I like that I you I have a flight map I have flight map on a lot passively and I do like to sit next to the window and I will do the check and the look it's just it's

kind of another form of entertainment but this is just young men who are overstimulated and looking for more attention and so they they don't do anything edifying it they've efficient made it official that they will do nothing edifying in their own lives. It's either social media or nothing. It's like meditation. It's maybe it's meditation. It's the one time in their life they're not connected to everything. That's how it used to be, by the way.

Do you remember that moment in your life when it's like, when they didn't have internet on the airplane? And you were like, this is going to be kind of nice, actually. I'm going to disconnect. We're beyond that now. But there was like a decade there where we had internet in our lives and on our phones, but we didn't have it on the plane for a little while and it was actually like a little bit of an oasis maybe they're just kind of like finding that on their own

by choice like a monk delight maybe maybe my first international flight in that context was that feeling it's like wow what do I do nothing no one can contact me that doesn't count the ones in government aircraft

which were the longest flights of my life in C-130s it's horrible anyway but it It's, yeah, talk about boredom and uncomfortable. But usually we fly commercial. All right, I want to talk about political theater for a minute with you. Jamal Bowman, squad member, lost his primary, Democratic primary in New York.

You know, what I really want to talk about with you is this rally that he held before the election that included AOC. You know, I started to think about it, Pete. And I don't know. Maybe we can blame. Maybe we can credit Donald Trump. But it's like, we have really moved into the age of politics as theater. And what you really see is the low-level drama student or the different qualities of theater present in politics. Like AOC bouncing around that stage.

And if you look at any kind of extended cut, it's like, it's pretty embarrassing, like secondhand embarrassment for me watching. And then Jabal Bowman, and everybody talks about how much he was cussing and this and that. Yeah, I mean, I don't find that very. stately but it's also like he's made a choice and what jabal moment is doing is he's doing this quasi-rapper style like he's stalking around stages hands in the air i know we're both wearing t-shirts right now we're not running for office wearing a t-shirt guns out and sort of doing politics as first take like i really think he's taking a lesson from first take like random you know yelling i don't know It's like, there's something for me watching Bowman and AOC, it's like we've really fully entered

and we're only going to see it be bigger. Politics is theater. And at some point, I guess what we'll get is the better drama students. I do. I like what you, I like your thought there with the drama students because you're right, in the age of Trump where it's become performative, people who are desperate to be at that level will seek to play that game, but they can't play it at his level. so they look like fools.

I respect the politicians who know they don't play that way and they just play their game. Like I think someone like Ted Cruz, right? He's never going to be performative, but he's whip smart and he's principled and he's ferocious and he does his, he plays his game.

Like stick, that's what problem is, I don't think AOC doesn't have any game and she thinks she has that game. And so when she does it, she actually probably thought it looked cool and probably felt cool. but all of that to be What do you think it's real?

Like is you being authentic? Is Bowman? Because that might be the key. Yesterday I talked about this like the key is to be authentic. So let's not be hypocrites. First, okay, I'm sorry to interrupt you. I want to play this for you right now.

Let's not be hypocrites. Donald Trump does politics as theater. He has fun. A rally at a Donald Trump is entertainment. You need a piece of evidence. Let me just give you this from this past weekend. when Donald Trump proposes a migrant UFC fighting league. Watch.

But I said, Dana, I have an idea for you to make a lot of money. You're going to go and start a new migrant fight league, migrants, only migrants. And then at the end of the year, the champion migrant is going to fight your champion. And I hate to tell you, Dana, I think the migrant might win. That's how tough they are. These are not This is not a normal situation So my favorite part was

Actually after that clip he goes He didn't like it He didn't like my idea He goes I don't know Not the worst idea I've ever had I love that on so many Cohen Brothers level of comedy Deps and levels

Not the worst idea I've ever had It's like a self-awareness That makes it even more funny But here's my point he's in on the joke he knows he's being funny he knows he knows he's doing a little bit of theater but it's authentic to who he is and he's making a deeper point by the way about how rough many of the illegal immigrants are that are coming into this country yep yep but for me i think in order to pull this off like the distinction between not just bowman and aOC and trump

but we had this conversation with ron dsantis and donald trump is authenticity are you being true to yourself or are you playing a character because if you're being authentic it's i guess it's not acting it's not theater i think in that situation uh it was desperation i think you had a a squad member on the cusp of being beaten who felt like it was time to flail away with everything he had there's also i think a growing sense that that that the movement they thought was behind them is not what it was when donald trump was in the bronx and brought out 20 000 people or whatever it was and there were 300 people in that crowd will i mean this is our camera shots are deceptive.

You know, you looks, there were 300 people there compared to the tens of thousands for Trump, which makes it even more foolish that they were acting that way. So I think they probably think they're cool. He calls himself the hip-hop congressman. I didn't know that. Is he a rapper? Is he just like hip-hop? He's got his sleeve rolled up, you know, one, that's his jam.

If it was authentic, I don't know. Maybe it is. He's the guy to pull the fire alarm. You know, he pulled the fire alarm. in Capitol Hill to delay a vote. It doesn't seem like much of a stable guy. So maybe that is who he is. All right. Last, I want to hit this with you. So I want to share with you a moment that I had yesterday with movie star, Kevin Costner. You know, I'll tell you a little bit of behind the scenes and everyone watching as well. When you get these interviews, as you said, Wilcane's

Celebrity Whisperer at Fox. When you get these interviews, you get some sense. And I do try to respect, you know, not, hey, this topic's off limits or this is off limits, but there are certain people who are there to talk about certain things, and you shouldn't have to force every subject on to them. And so, for example, the world of politics with Kevin Costner. He was there, and we were going to talk about his life and horizon. And even though in the past, he's worn a shirt about Liz Cheney, or I think been a supporter of Joe Biden, politics wasn't on the list of subjects to Roach unless he wanted to talk politics. And I was surprised. He kept kind of coming back to it, Pete, on several occasions, but not on the nose.

He would hit it around the edges. He would talk about the concept of leadership. And he said this, which I would like for you to listen to, and I'd love to talk about what he misses about leadership in America. Are we getting the best attention? Are we, like, going after problems in a very logical way? Are we looking at things that have been broken for so long? I think the answer to that is a question, and that is what type of leadership? That's right. Right. And leadership is, we're in desperate need of that. We're not in need of extension of careers.

Leadership, you know, the definition of a great leader probably won't be elected because he's done the right things to make enough people uncomfortable. Who to you is emblematic of a great leader? Well, a lot of times you're judged so much later on. I mean, you think about Lincoln for some reason. So we went on to talk about Lincoln. Now, he never brought up our current president, Joe Biden. He never brought up Donald Trump. So, you know, I think the point of this and sharing this with you, P, is my suspicion is that Kevin Koster probably doesn't support Donald Trump.

That'd be my suspicion based upon where he's been in the past. People change, so I could be wrong. he could change his opinion but this isn't about costner i listened to donald trump on the all-in podcast which is a bunch of silicon valley guys like david sacks and schmoth paula patia and some of them have been democrats in the past and there's something that occurred to me at the end of it people have an impression of trump he's like an abstract painting like everybody has an opinion and everybody has an impression because it's been forced fed to them and he is unescapable right But it's always secondhand impressionism.

It's what somebody else told you about him or how somebody else cut him. And I think a great example is the very fine people thing. But then you get a longer bit of exposure. And I think this occurred with me and you know that. You're like, oh, he's not exactly the way that painting was presented. He's very different. And in that hour conversation on the All In podcast, I'm like, listen to these guys getting an impression of Donald Trump now. not as a rumor, not secondhand, and not out of context or clipped, but in long form and

directly, and listen to how they change their opinions. And what I'm getting at is, I don't know where Kevin Costner is, but when he describes something, I start to think, well, viewed long after you're done, probably not that popular, at least in some quarters while you're president, hard to get elected because you take positions that some won't like. and not in it for your career. I just think, like, and I just wonder, will you, I just wonder, Costner, would you look back one day and say all of that analysis actually did apply to Donald Trump? Maybe.

I never, you know, he just did the middle of Yellowstone or completed it where he played a political animal. I mean, it probably awoken a more political insight on certain topics. I've universally been critical about caring what actors think. It's like caring what anyone in any random profession thinks. I don't go to my dentist because I care about their political persuasion or, you know, a car mechanic. I respect that they have one, but I don't elevate that opinion in any specific way because of their profession. I don't know why we do that with actors, and I'd rather they not even talk because I just want them to be actors. but someone like him is at such a next level in a higher plane and I guess my

as far as level of celebrity and I don't feel like I've heard him talk a lot about politics and I could be wrong he just doesn't feel like or seem like an overtly political Hollywood guy I'd be fascinated to know if he's had that type of change that some have as well standing in the face of what's happened I presumably lives in California what's happened in California, what's happened with Joe Biden and other billionaires and other famous people that have quietly whispered it or alluded to it in a way that they just never could admit. I look forward to, that's a good tease for the rest of the interview, because I'm going to want to kind of read into and hear what he's saying.

I'm sure a lot of it's not about politics, but it'll be fascinating. Well, and it's not, me bringing this up in discussion with you is actually less about Kevin Costner. It's just more about, I don't know, the way. way that Donald Trump has been consumed and synthesized, you know, I just, I'm combining listening to Costner and listening to Trump on the All In podcast. And I guess what I'm like thinking is like Costner talks about missing the ability to solve big problems and missing like the ability to persuade and big soaring oratory like a Mr. Smith goes to Washington. And I'm not here to

wave pom-poms for Donald Trump. I'm truly not. But I do think sometimes like everyone's opinion of Donald Trump is like an echo down the canyon. You're hearing it the third time repeated. And I don't think you know anymore what it sounds like the first time. And the requirement isn't that you hear it the first time and like it. That's not what I'm getting at. Sure. I just think that I guess the very fine people thing is really illustrative to me. Like that is just such a great example of, and you'll never convince the people. By the way, those that have already decided they've seen the painting and they know what it is, we'll never hear anybody go, yeah, but maybe you should look at it firsthand in the museum. They don't want to see the full clip of the very, of the very fine

people thing. They don't want the truth. They already have decided how they feel about the Mona Lisa. But I just, how about this? I guess this is where I am, Pete. I believe that 50 years from now, I truly believe this, 50 years from now, whatever the books are and however he has been consumed and whatever the rankings might be of Donald Trump are going to be very different than what they are in 2016, 2020, and 2024. 50 years from now, the history books will portray him the way they portray Ronald Reagan, which is a bad guy because who writes the history books. But I think the popular consensus will be a lot more favorable, just like Ronald Reagan

is often considered one of the greatest presidents when, in retrospect, when people have time to look at what he did with his eight years and they analyze it, he gets a proper billing, but the textbooks will always make him look like he was reckless with the Soviet Union and yada, yada, yada. So I think you're right, and I think Joe Biden had a lot to do with that. I think if Joe Biden had come in and been this moderate who had united the country and done, you know, reasonable things, they would have said, well, yeah, that's what we want. But instead he went recklessly left and affirmed all of the accusations that Trump has made, and it made what he was saying before that much more real, because we were given a direct comp, a direct alternative,

and it cratered. So anyone with a fair mind can look at it and make that comparison. Maybe Koster's one of them. Who knows? All right. We'll see. I got my one-on-one interview coming up with Kevin Koster. But that's going to do it for Pete Higgs out today on Off the Rails.

I'll see you this weekend, man. Thank you for being on the location. See this weekend. All right. Take care. It's not just as the history books, I think, will compare him against Joe Biden, and I think it will be beyond a partisan lens.

I guess I think we're in a unique time in American history dealing with unique issues. And I think what's in an unavoidable certainty is Donald Trump has had a unique approach to America's problems, not doctrinaire Republican, not faced off against doctrinaire Democrat. And because of that, it will be fascinating to see how that history is written about Donald Trump.

All right, a true movie star one-on-one with the actor and director of the new movie Horizon. It's me and Kevin Costner next on The Will Cain Show. This is Jason Chaffetz from the Jason and the House podcast. Join me every Monday to dive deeper into the latest political headlines and chat with remarkable guests. Listen and follow now at Fox News Podcast.com. Or wherever you've. download podcasts. This is Jimmy Phala, inviting you to join me for Fox Across America, where we'll discuss

every single one of the Democrats' dumb ideas. Just kidding. It's only a three-hour show. Listen live at noon Eastern or get the podcast at Fox Across America.com. One-on-one with a true movie star, one-on-one, with Kevin Costner, here on the Will Cain show streaming live at Fox News.com on the Fox News YouTube channel, the Fox News.com. on the Fox News YouTube channel, the Fox News Facebook page, just hit subscribe in the text link right under this live stream.

There's a little button you can subscribe to the Will Cain Show on YouTube. If you're listening right now on Apple or Spotify, just go hit subscribe and we'll show up right in your feed every day right here on the Will Cain show. On YouTube, Kathleen Roe-K says, does Will actually read anything we write referencing our comments? Kathleen, I definitely read your comments and I read them live right here on. the Will Cain show. In fact, some of your comments about my upcoming interview with Kevin Costner in the third segment today of The Will Cain Show. But yesterday, I flew to California, drove to Marine Corps Base Camp Pendleton and sat down with the actor and director of a brand new

movie Horizon. I sat down with the movie star, Kevin Costner. All right, Kevin. Thanks for being here. We're here at Camp Pendle. Camp Marine Corps Base, Marines, sailors, the families are filing in there about to watch Horizon. Why was it important for you to do it here at Camp Pendleton? Well, it feels important to me. Our military is part of the fabric of our country, if not the tip of the spear. And as I want to show the film, as I want to show the film, as I want to, made people aware, but the idea of coming to a military base just seems real logical to me.

Your story, Horizon, it's about America. Here we are, as you point out, the tip of the spirit for America. It just fit, bringing those two things together? Well, I think that America was a promise. You know, it was really, if you made it across that Atlantic Ocean, there was this story that there was this country that just went on and on. It was the Garden of Eden, if you will, And if you could get there, and if you were strong enough, if you were resourceful enough, you could make it yours. They failed to mention that people that had been here for 15,000 years. No one really thought about that. But that promised kept people coming for the last 400, 500 years.

And there's been this march from sea to shining sea. And so, you know, that's a story. In this instance, it covers a 12-year span. and we took over the West, I don't want to say settled, we took it over, but we did it by inches. It was contested, it was fought for by the people who did live here. This seems to be your great American novel. I mean, it's a project you've been working on, and I've read since 1988, you've kept coming back to it again and again. What was it about this story?

There's been a lot of stories. You've had a lot of stories in your career. the come back to the West? What was it necessary to be said? Because every time I would read these scenes, they had a ring of authenticity to me. That, yes, it must have been like that in some form. It's not a true story, but it happened a million times,

every one of the stories that you see being told. And I have to make up my mind. Where am I going to go with an audience? Is it going to be a political thriller? Am I going to do straight-out history? Am I going to make a romantic comedy, a sports movie and I just

I love going back because I feel like it's just filled with drama I feel like there's an excitement to seeing these places that really still exist in our country these places on the edge of the frontier well when you when you I mean where I chose to film

I mean it's awe-inspiring to see to see what this land was and before we came people were flourishing here in their own way and to to do deal with that drama and deal with it in an authentic way, dealing with real behavior. They weren't fighting for a piece of land as much as they were fighting for their right to live

and hold on to their religion, hold on to, you know, not be hunted like animals. There's a speech in Horizon where a military captain talks about the inevitability of the wagons pushing west. You know, I read a lot about the frontier. I love exploration. A lot of the guys that did exploration were heroic. figures in Horizon and a lot of the people in real life that pushed the frontier in America, normal, everyday people, looking for something in life.

Well, they were, and so you never forget, and you don't know, in awe of the resourcefulness it took for people to open it up, to go, this kind of thing in America where we can look at something, we can bend a river to our will. There's something resourceful, there's something resilient about how Americans think what they can do. So to make just a living, to keep their kids, to keep their children clean to, you know, protect themselves. It's really, it's not a land in Disneyland. It was real. And so the resourcefulness, the noble, people acted in many ways heroically. And there was others that, like at any time in life, they take advantage of what It seemed to be no law.

Do you think that today in America, we still have that ability to bend the river, to do heroic things? I do. I think the opportunity is better than ever to kind of take our future and to look at where we're at as a country, honestly, and try to understand that we can be proud of what we've accomplished, but understand that in anything, we can really do a lot better. Well, this was a little bit your frontier, it seems like. It's not just the project you keep coming back to for decades.

I understand, I mean, a lot of, not just sweat equity, but financing yourself that you put into this project. Again, this project itself, it's clearly so important to you. Yeah, I have to make up my mind what I'm going to be about. If I'm going to be a storyteller, I need to find the great original story that I, I mean, I still like to go to the theater. People, they sit down and they want something, we're here, and there's no curtain here, but when there used to be, when it opened, you always felt that something magical could happen. And so to travel back and to create characters that you see yourself in, not just a black hat or a white hat, but where there's real dilemma, where what do you do, which way do you go, who do you trust, who can't you, it was difficult out there. It wasn't simple. We think of the West as being simple.

difficult. Living in a city is easy. But what did you sacrifice for this project? I mean, I know you've contributed financially. I know you've, I read you've mortgaged a home. What have you sacrificed for this project horizon? Well, I don't know that I've certainly put a lot of money into this. I've certainly foregone my salary. But I don't know that I've sacrificed anything. What I've done is kind of kept a promise with myself to tell stories and to tell an original way and just because people because something feels difficult it doesn't mean it shouldn't be attempted doesn't mean it shouldn't be done and i'm really proud of what horizon is and and what a family experience will be even though it's listed as an R i do think it's the kind of movie that

when the parents look at it go you know what i think i want i think i want our son to see this I think I want our daughter to see this because it is what some of our, it is what our great-grandparents went through. You know, I guess I asked you that question in terms of sacrifice, which may or may not apply, because at least correlation, I look at what's gone on in your life over the terms of this project coming to life. Right. You, as we pointed out, you put money into this project. You got divorced a year ago. You put out an Instagram post last week that you'd be moving on from Yellowstone. Are any of these things correlated with this, how much you've dedicated to Horizon?

I don't think so at all. I mean, I just like to work more than once a year. I've done that before in my life. There was one situation like that, and I wasn't able to do that for a while. You know, my personal life is I've gone through what, a lot of people have gone through. I didn't want that to happen. It's not how I would draw it, but it did.

Here I am. I'm a single parent. But that horizon has nothing to do with that. Well, I guess I keep coming back to that, just how much this project meant to you. Well, it's not more important than any other movie. It's not more important than the field of dreams than dances with wolves. but what's important is I've kind of kept faith with how I want to tell stories and sometimes they're about my country and I want to look at it in an authentic way and an entertaining way

where you see yourself but you're drawn into it and you understand the sacrifice how hard it was for people before us. We forget, you know, we're on a military base. We celebrate Memorial Day and we look back, but can we actually place ourselves and the danger that we sent our strongest, our youngest, our bravest. It's interesting you say you want to tell stories about my country. I mean, I think anyone, even from a distance, can casually observe your career and see there's something quintessentially American about the choices that you made.

I mean, baseball, the Old West, and political thrill. I'm going to make a picture about Apple Pie, watch. Two hours? Yeah, but it's, yeah, well, sometimes that's what it takes. Or is that one going to be six hours? hours is that someone that's what it takes sometimes you know everybody you know when you're little they give you a piece of paper to draw right and you draw and I draw and we do something we turn in and sometimes mine looks like four pictures

it's just the way I do it and I I I can't help that and just because others do something a certain way I admire that you know I've made the single movie before I make romantic comedies I make these things for people and when they visit I'm try to make it visit it, I want to, when they see it, walk away and feel that was really relevant to myself. I didn't realize a woman. I didn't realize I was going to enjoy Horizon so much. These women are dominant in the story.

I asked you about whether or not we can still bend rivers and do big things. What Horizon represented to me is a thematic element of not just America, but particularly the West in America. And that's the edge. That's frontier. That's risk tolerance. And it's, I think, a real part of our DNA. But I do wonder, do we still have that risk tolerance?

We still have that frontier in America. Well, you know, we've gone from sea to shining sea, if you will. We've gone to both coasts and now what is in between. You know, some people talk about space as that frontier. Not me. I wouldn't go. I like it too much here. Some people say, would you go?

There's hands at shoot up that would go in a second. Not me. I love this world. and the opportunities for me to still see it myself in between the raindrops of how I conduct my life. And so is there a frontier? I think, I mean, I don't really, it's not about just land

because then we'd be taking some other land that's somehow spoken for, but in our minds. I mean, can we go farther in our minds? Can we go farther in our level of empathy for other cultures, for a higher understanding of how this country, can operate at a higher level. People are falling through the cracks.

How do we take care of that? There's always this idea, well, we, you know, we have to be about that. And you see that as the next frontier? Well, I think if our country looked at itself, I think that there is a frontier and us keeping faith with the promise that if you play fair, you're gonna be treated fair.

Yeah. Yeah, I think there's also frontiers representing what you've done here, and that's laying it on the line, entrepreneurally, for something that you believe in. You're right. Although you say, I mean, you're right, I don't know how much more land there is to explore and discover. But as you point out in Horizon, it's not as though this was truly undiscovered. There was someone else here. Right. I think it wouldn't hurt at all. This country continued to just look at itself, be honest with that. and understand what's important. And it's not someone's career, it's not someone's tenure, it's not anything. Public service really is about us. I mean, are we getting the best attention? Are we like going after problems

in a very logical way? Are we looking at things that have been broken for so long? You know, I think probably every election, I'm older than you are, every election somebody's going to take care of the veterans, and it doesn't seem to happen. And every year it's going to be, in every four years,

it's going to be something about this. And it doesn't seem to happen. And so I think Americans are frustrated with that. I know I am because it feels like, boy, we can do a lot of things. It seems like we could fix that. And I think there's 20 things like that. It looks like we could fix that. You know, can we, you know, people don't want to pay a lot of taxes,

but I don't know anybody that they thought it was going to make a difference difference that wouldn't pay more. So where is our money going? Why can't that be tracked? What is so difficult about that? I think the answer to that is a question and that is what type of leadership. That's right. Right. And leadership is, we're in desperate need of that. We're not in need of extension of careers. Leadership, you know, the definition of a great leader probably won't He won't be elected because he's done the right things to make enough people uncomfortable. But we're on course for something. We have to get out in front of this.

And, you know, I'm like anybody just staring at the TV sometimes and wondering. Well, Kevin, you're a student of history. You've made quintessential movies and told stories about history. So as you kind of surveyed the landscape, who to you is emblematic of a great leader? Well, a lot of times you're judged so much later on. I mean, you think about Lincoln for some reason. You know, if I could have dinner with a few people, he might be one of them. And it would be to say, no, you had a great presidency.

I'm thinking that he, you know, felt, we don't know what that last moment was, but the night before, he was probably feeling like he had a failed presidency. There was everybody attacking him. There was everybody that was after him. And years later, we think of him as one of our greatest presidents. And that kind of leader who just feels, you know, I yearn for that kind of big thinking. You told a story with Fox in the past couple of years on Fox Nation, Yellowstone 150. I know you signed a new deal with Fox Nation to do some more stories.

What kind of stories we'd be telling with Fox Nation? Well, I think they want to continue with the National Park themes where we get kind of behind the curtain about what really went down. And you realize that, you know, in that first one, you realize a single individual kind of just went against the grain was out there to do one thing and kind of looked at what he was doing, had a sea change and said, instead of us figuring out how to put a railroad through here, why don't we figure out how to save this? And it was such a novel idea, and everybody looked at him, and nobody even knew what he was talking about. But in some way, it was a young man who was, DNA was formed when he was very young, and he walked to a college and said, if you let me in, I don't have any money, I'm going to make a difference in this world. And he did, and 25, 30 years later, he was the reason why we had our first national park. And he went to Congress, and even all the materials that he was going to take to Congress

to try to win the day, had been destroyed, the greatest majority of him, and the great Chicago fire, and yet he had some paintings and some photographs, and it carried the day. His, you know, I mean, I think sometimes great issues hit the floor of Congress, and people already know how they're going to vote. It doesn't matter what somebody's going to say. I see people speaking sometimes behind the lectern, and people are wandering around. There must have been a time when great oratory would make a difference, meaning I felt one day coming into this chamber, and after listening to that, I feel a different way, that we had the ability to alter our thinking. You think we've lost the ability to persuade?

That the poetry of an argument can carry the day. I like that idea as well. I like the idea of being able to sit down with someone you might have disagreement. And you either do one of two things, as one of my friends used to say when you have a debate. You either when or you learn something. Or you come back to it. Because I don't want to change if I really feel something because someone hasn't been able to convince me. But I don't want to shut off the argument because two weeks later somebody comes back and suddenly says something in a way.

that I didn't had never thought about that can change me right it doesn't make me weak right what's the I did a road trip a few years ago hit as many national parks as I possibly could Zion Bryce Yellowstone so what's your favorite one besides Yellowstone well Yosemite never fails to inspire glacier is just bigger than big I you know I don't know I'm in love with the outdoors You know, I mean, I just can't get enough of it. Well, I can't wait to see what you do on Fox Nation. Great. Have fun today with Horizon.

Thank you. Thank you, Kevin. There we go. That was about 20 minutes with a true movie start in Kevin Costner. Fox News Audio presents Unsolved with James Patterson. Every crime tells a story, but some stories are left unfinished. Somebody knows. Real cases, real people.

Listen and follow now at Fox Truecrime.com. All right, what did we think? Let's break it down with story number three. That is a movie star. That's from a bygone era. That's actually when we had movie stars, we talked about in yesterday's episode of the Will Kane show with Critical Drinker.

I've had the privilege, the opportunity to sit down with various people who hit that level of stardom, Donald Trump, Dwayne the Rock Johnson, and Kevin Costner. I will tell you, two days, ten, four, But it was a little harder for me with Costner. And I sit there and I wondered why.

You know, I wondered why. It wasn't the easiest interview for me. And I texted somebody like, you know, I think he is from an era when a movie star was almost like a god. Yeah. You know, and it was hard for me to connect with him because of that. You know, I'll be real with you, like both Trump and The Rock, you know, a lot of eye contact, a lot of mutual interest in my thoughts or my life and how we could have a conversation. This felt a little different, but I want to be real about something. I think I'm too hard on Costner because a couple of things.

First of all, he's done a million of these. He's really promoting Horizon right now. I'm like the million and first interview that he's done for this. So I'm sure he is world weary on this. And also, it's like looking back at that, maybe it's me that felt off. Maybe, you know, I think it was a good interview, but it doesn't feel like one of my best for me. And I think, in listening to him, I don't know. I think he's being thoughtful.

I think he is thinking about stuff, and I don't know, especially watching it back. I have more respect for Costner. I think he's the type of guy that he'll give you something if he feels you deserve it as an interviewer. Like if you really have something good to say, you know what I'm saying? Like, he'll get there if you get him there kind of thing. Yeah, Shane Schimp on YouTube says Costner sold out when he chose to support Rhino Liz Cheney. I don't know. I mean, look, I don't require that his politics completely mirror my politics.

I sense a bit of earnestness, you know, in that, especially that last answer. I like to, you know, I actually quoted Max Keller when I said, the great thing about debate is either you win or you learn something. And he didn't just accept the bipolar options I gave him there, the dichotomy. He added a third, or I come back to it. I think about it. And maybe you present the argument in a different way, which means he was engaged. and connecting and listening to what I had to say. And I don't know if I felt that as much as I should have in the moment.

I don't know. I would be up for trying again, you know, for having another conversation with Kevin. Look, here's the truth. A, I love frontier. B, I also don't have the same passion for space as seeing as the next frontier. You know, C, I really love and respect talking about Indians. and he's alluding to that throughout the conversation. I actually think of them as the noble vanquish, the conquested, not stolen land.

And I love learning about their history. We have a lot in common. He clearly loves America and keeps coming thematically back to America in almost all of his movies. And here's the bottom line. I love his characters. And there's him in those characters, you know. I love Roy McAvoy in Ten Cup. Okay.

I love Roy McAvoy. So that's what I was going to ask you. When he walks up, what's the first movie you think of when it comes to Kevin Costner? I don't know, maybe tomorrow we can talk more about this, and I can tell you more about Kevin Costner. But if we had a draft, Ten Cup is going very high in my Kevin Costner draft. Number one for me. Yeah.

I just want to sit and think his old West movies are like obviously dances with wolves. He did the Hatfield McCoys. He did Open Range. I want to make sure that there's none of those. I actually really love 13 days when he played, like, what was it, the A, to John F. Kennedy in the Cuban Missile Crisis. I liked, you know, the Oliver Stone movie, you know, about JFK. Anyway, we should maybe do a Kevin Costner movie draft, and we're going to have to see who gets first picked, though,

because it might just be Ten Cup. It might just be Ten Cup. All right, let's maybe do that tomorrow. We've got a big presidential debate tomorrow night. We're going to break it all down and get you ready for Biden versus Trump, the CNN presidential debate simulcast on Fox. That's going to do it for me today here on The Will Kane Show. Subscribe, Apple, Spotify, YouTube, and I will see you again next time.

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