Will Cain Country - Pro-Palestinians Take Over The American Capitol

Episode Date: October 20, 2023

Story #1: A pro-Palestinian rally turned riot at the United States Capitol illustrates that the threat to American values was always internal. Story #2: With more than three decades on the court in the NBA, Former NBA Referee Kenny Mauer is suing the NBA for his religious freedom. He joins Will to explain why we can never allow them to turn the page on COVID-19. Story #3: The fallout in College Football begins this weekend in the BIG 10 Conference centered around Penn State versus Ohio State. Tell Will what you thought about this podcast by emailing [e-mail] Follow Will on Twitter: @WillCain Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For a limited time at McDonald's, enjoy the tasty breakfast trio. Your choice of chicken or sausage McMuffin or McGrittles with a hash-brown and a small iced coffee for $5.5 plus tax. Available until 11 a.m. at participating McDonald's restaurants. Price excludes flavored iced coffee and delivery. One, a pro-Palestinian riot. and insurrection at the United States Capitol illustrates that the threat to American values was always inside of America.

Two, more than three decades on the court in the NBA. Referee Kenny Maurer has sued for his religious freedom and we can never let them just turn the page on COVID. Three, the fallout begins this weekend in the Big Ten. It's the Will Kane podcast on Fox News Podcast. What's up and welcome to the weekend. Welcome to Friday.

As always, I hope you will download rate and review this podcast wherever you get your audio entertainment at Apple, Spotify, or at Fox News Podcast. You can watch the Will Kane podcast on YouTube and follow me on X at Will Kane. It's time for the annual squirrel hunt and catfish. rodeo. I've taken the weekend off from Fox and Friends to stay back home in the great state of Texas. And this weekend, while I have buddies who are traveling to Wyoming and North Dakota to hunt antelope or spending their time way too much time in Canada, just getting incredible harvests of ducks, I am hunting squirrels.

in East Texas. Yep. As much as I've put into my New Year's resolutions that I want to rededicate myself to duck hunting, and I do, I got about one of those trips on the calendar in this past 12 months. But I have to always make sure that on the calendar every year, I can make it to far, deep, dark green, west Texas, east Texas to pretend. that I'm hunting for squirrels. This is a family and friends affair.

There's going to be about a dozen of us dudes out there, including my oldest son, who has now for two years past the age threshold of 13 to join the men on the hunt for the wildernesses' smallest creatures in the forests of East Texas. Man, you know what it is. I mean, you know what's at danger. it's not squirrels. What's in danger are wise choices. There will be far more abuse of my body and there will be of any of the woodlands tree dwellers. I think in two years we've killed one squirrel, but we've killed a lot of silver bullets. It's a good time like any good hunting trip is. There's a lot of campfire, a lot of debating what the best country song is, a lot of peanut butter or whiskey or whatever is passed around the campfire. It is a lot of campfire. It is.

a rite of passage. It's an annual tradition. And while we basically strike out at the squirrels, we don't in fellowship, we don't in reconnecting with our roots, and we don't when it comes to catfish. Oh, boy, we bring in the catfish. Now, I'm talking monsters. We will bring in some monsters, and we will cook them up. We will have a fry come Saturday night. You know what? I'll do my best to post some pictures on Instagram, see Will Kane. I'll try my best not to go live. I don't think most of what will be said will be appropriate for public broadcast, but I'll do my best to bring you into the annual squirrel hunt and catfish rodeo.

And I told you last year, my favorite part of the trip is really honestly the three-hour drive east with my son. Next year I'll have two sons join me on the squirrel hunt and catfish rodeo. But this year, we'll see. I'll come back on Monday's episode. I'll let you know which is, in fact, after a year of debate, the greatest country and Western song. I'll let you know who is the best college football team. There will be easily a dozen hours devoted to that debate. And I will come back with my head high or hung low as there will be equally as many Houston Astros fans around the campfire as there will be Texas Rangers fans.

so we'll see at the end of the weekend who uh well who won that debate i doubt we'll be able to settle who is the best squirrel hunter a few emails and texts from you the listener of the will came podcast at willcame podcast at fox.com diane walsick emails in david bella via podcast David Belovia is a true American hero that is passionate about the USA, very interesting hearing firsthand actions, thoughts, and strategy. Will, David did not win the Medal of Honor, as you repeatedly commented. He earned it. Thank you, Diane. I've been corrected on more than one platform and more than one occasion about the fact that in that episode I referred to David Belavia as a Medal of Honor winner. I stand corrected and I appreciate your feedback. You earn it. You receive. the Medal of Honor.

You do not win the Medal of Honor. Thomas Shannon emails in, Will, exceptional interview. Appreciate how you let your guests thoroughly answer the question. I hope you continue doing this. Tom Shannon, Madison, Wisconsin. Thank you, Tom. I completely intend to keep having these types of conversations.

This is from Kim Carter. She emails in, Will. My husband is a 15-year action. active duty army jag officer. The army of today is not the army he joined in 2008. Though he's an officer, Staff Sergeant Belavia, with all due respect, says it's part of the reason why the army has gone soft. I would submit that the issue is not necessarily just with the officer corps. There's a big difference between those with 10 plus years experience and those soldiers with only a few years in service. These young kids have been brought up with more, quote,

woke curriculum. They see microaggressions everywhere. They drop entirely unfounded claims of sexual assault that require months of investigation just because they hate their commander or a member of their platoon. My husband taught law at the military academy for a year and had future LTs beg for mercy after low test scores because they had test anxiety. It's madness and reflects a shift in our culture. The military is just a microcosm of our society and it is scary. Thank you for all the great episodes on the war in Israel. I appreciate the thoughtful way you approach the issue. One last thought. Go Rangers. best Kim Carter yes Kim go Rangers and I suspect that you're right the military is just a microcosm

of society and in fact I think that was the interesting point made by Steph Sergeant Belavia that the military wanted to begin to be accepted by larger society to be accepted into elite circles in order to do that you couldn't simply be a four-star general you had to be a four-star general with a degree from Harvard whether or not it was from the bottom up, whether it is from the bottom up, from young soldiers and young students who have been brought into this microaggression, woke, sensitivity culture, or its ambition at the highest levels of not just military but finance and corporate CEOs, we are under a vice grip of losing our identity, losing our values. I don't say those as catchphrases.

I said those with specific intent because they all add up to losing America, which brings me to story number one. Hundreds, thousands of individuals show up the United States Capitol, the Canon building, in what is just short of a riot but satisfies every modern definition of an insurrection in taking over the rotunda, the buildings, and interrupting official proceedings to, protest as they described the Israeli aggression on Gaza, calling for a ceasefire, declaring support for Palestine, young people, individuals, seemingly chaotic, began to resemble exactly what happened on January 6th. Now, I'm not going to draw a false equivalency. What happened on January 6th was much more violent, much more destructive. But for many of the people that sit in jail sales in Washington, D.C. today, some with like 18-year sentences. If you haven't kept up with January 6th, whether or not you're on the left or the right, or whether or not

it's a bipartisan consensus that what happened on January 6th was terrible, if you haven't kept up with that news story, there are people rotting away in jails, honestly, without due process today. Some denied bail. Some had their charges ramped up to much beyond and commonsensical understandings of the law, and many receiving severe sentences, again, in some cases which amounted to trespassing, vandalism charges. But you can be assured that what happened this week in support of Palestinians will not be met with the same level of seriousness within the justice system as they treated January 6th. But honestly, that hypocrisy, while important, isn't the focus for me here today on the Will Cain podcast.

I have a different takeaway. The takeaway from what you see there in the United States Capitol is a representation, an illustration, a hint into exactly how it is we lost. And I hate to speak definitively or in the past tense. And I hope it's a train that still has some brakes on the car, but how we are losing the United States of America. First, what does look chaotic or organic or grassroots has been revealed to be so clearly not. You've seen pictures that have been posted online about different people on Signal. Signal is an app where you can't have, it's an encrypted act for texting and group messaging, where it's supposed to have extreme privacy parameters.

But there are screenshots. If you have the signal app open on your phone and somebody behind you takes a picture, you can see what was going on. And you can see some of the screenshots of the people involved in this protest and what they were, how they were communicating. They were in signal groups, signal groups named JVP, which is the Jewish Voice for Peace. The Jewish voice for peace has been described by the Anti-Defamation League, the ADL, as extremely anti-Israel. On top of that, there was a signal group that one of the members in there that day seemed to be organizing under the heading of global intifada. Intifada is an uprising. There was a first and second intifada in Gaza and the West Bank in the 1980s and 1990s.

I believe that's right. Or 1990s in early 2000s where you had chaotic, terroristic acts in the United States. in defiance of the Israeli soldiers and Israeli government, not a full-scale war like the Yom Kippur War or the Six Day War. Those are all incidences coming up in future episodes of the Will Kame podcast as we work our way through our three-part history

between the Israelis and the Palestinians. But an intifada is an uprising, not a peaceful uprising. And these students, these young people, these protesters, these rioters, these insurrectionists, rallying under the banner, signal group,

entitled Global Intifada. On one of those text chains, captured in a picture by Marjorie Taylor Green, there was a name that Internet sleuths went and looked up. And if it's the same name, if it's the same person, what's revealed is that person is an attorney for the Southern Poverty Law Center. And that person in Southern Poverty Law Center, if it is true, if it is the same person, has been involved in other riots and uprisings like the Atlanta Cop City mob in that city some time ago. So what the first takeaway from this incident is, is it shows you this isn't grassroots or chaotic. What we quickly learned, for example, with the BLM protest is these are funded, these are supplied,

these are organized by people with an understanding, with a stated purpose, with a goal in maybe perhaps we listen to them when they rally under the banner of global intifada. Now, that brings me to the second observation. This happens in the same 24-hour period that the United States State Department issues a worldwide warning for Americans traveling abroad, that a worldwide warning for Americans that terrorist threats throughout the globe represent a threat for Americans' ability to move freely. This is two days after declaring

that Americans should take precaution or avoid traveling to Lebanon. Two days later, that's expanded to the world. And I think we would be naive to believe that we can simply exempt the borders of the United States of America somehow safe, that we would be warned against traveling to Paris, but somehow safe walking down the street in New York City. Not when we understand the status of the American southern border.

Not when we understand the status of the threat at home. Those threats best well represented by protest and riots and support not just at the United States Capitol, but on American college campuses, in the streets of American cities. You can't at the same time tell me I'm unsafe to travel abroad while I watch a global intifada. Rally here at home. Speaking of these college campuses where all of these big outpourings of success, first in student letters, then in student marches in support of Palestine, on the heels of this terrorist attack by Hamas, it's left 1,400 people dead in Israel, there's been an uprising of billionaires who are saying they are going to deny their previously undying financial support of university. of across the nation. I'm going to give you one illustration, but there are so many that have stepped up these billionaires and said that they're no longer just going to give, give, give to these universities that tolerate this hate, hate, hate, hate. Penn donor Clifford Asness says,

I do not like making something like this about money, but it appears to be one of the only pass that has any hope of mattering. Penn hosted a Palestine rights event that he called the anti-Semitic Burning Man Festival. It will no longer support financially the University of Pennsylvania. You've seen other billionaires step up and say, I'm not going to support Harvard. I'm not going to support this Ivy League institution. Famously, the Wexler Group, which is one of the founding families and groups of Victoria's Secrets, not for nothing, but the Wexler is also tied up, the Patriarch of the Wexler

fortune and family tied up in the Jeffrey Epstein affair, one of the biggest. financial backers and supporters of Jeffrey Epstein. But that group also denying their billions to Harvard. And my takeaway from this is, all right, I see now you are standing up for something. These universities can't continue to get away with this type of endorsement, not tolerance, endorsement, because there's been plenty of speech that these universities have not tolerated There's been plenty of speakers that they've turned away, and we could rattle off the list of American mainline conservative speakers denounced as racist or homophobic or whatever your slur-de-jure to which the university has usually been towards the arc of censorship. Intolerance.

So when they tolerate something's extreme of what we've seen for the past week, it can be interpreted as nothing more than an individual. endorsement. But where are those billionaires been in the past? Where have they been when college campuses have divorced themselves from American values? Now, this is part of the conversation that always runs a threat of losing people. You know, what I'm about to say has nothing to do with Republican or Democrat. I truly mean that. I think it is bigger than a partisan lens. And I don't think that I sit here and can drape myself in the American flag to say I get to define what is American. But I think I can objectively look at history, whether or not it's the American founding documents, the American founding culture, its place in history, it's, it's evolution

out of the Western Enlightenment, Judeo-Christian ethics, out of the Socratic and Greek philosophies, you can look at it and say, what is America? What are American values? use. And there's some that you would think, you would hope you'd arrive at some universal consensus, or at least some overwhelming consensus. Belief in private property rights. Man can pursue his life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. Sometimes it's interchangeable in those documents the pursuit of property. A general conception of freedom than when put to the test between safety and freedom, the American the American ideology, the American mindset is to instinctually lean towards freedom,

towards smaller government as a political philosophy that better preserves freedom, individual liberty. You can choose and I can choose, and we don't have to choose the same life. There are certain values, free speech, foundational to the United States of America, that you would think, and we could sit here and enunciate and enumerate them together, but you would think we would rally around. But American college campuses have undoubtedly, undoubtedly untethered themselves from those American values. Whether or not it's in pursuit of progress, progression, progressive values, a utopic idea of the future that the past, is always at sin and the future is always a blessing, that you can do better than your

forefathers, totally lacking in humility, but empowered with the ability to change society, recklessly, whatever motivation, they have moved away from a common set of values. And it's not just on American College campuses, it's in our culture as well. Look, we like to think that one of America's founding values is empathy. Give us your tired, your weak, your poor, your hungry, hungry. It reads it's understood under the Statue of Liberty. But that doesn't mean we accept every refugee, every illegal immigrant. That doesn't mean we don't understand that we have to have people coming to this country that as well believe in these American values. And so

where were these billionaires when these college campuses divorced themselves from nonpartisan, truly understood foundational values of America. They were nowhere to be seen. And you can't have a tribe. You can't have a tribe without a common identity. We've talked about the concept of tribe. Tribes throughout history have organized themselves around some commonality, a commonality of religion, a commonality of race or ethnicity,

a commonality of geographic location. What was the great historical departure of our experiment was that our commonality was our values. But if we don't have a core set of common values, we don't have a tribe. And if we don't have a tribe, we have no national identity. We have nothing to rally around. We are simply waiting to be conquered.

Conquered because of our division. In my continued study of what happened in the Middle East in the early periods of Zionism between the Palestinians and the Israelis, one of the weaknesses of the Palestinians, one of the reasons that Colin is went so successfully for the Israelis is they had a common cause, a common identity to their tribe. The Arab tribes of the Middle East had different cultures and different dialects and different beliefs and different families and the long arc of history had always led to them to believe there was no need for them to rally under a banner, a flag, a nation.

they were divided and because they were divided they never could mount any type of common defense any type of common unifying pushback unified pushback against Zionism same thing right here in the United States of America the American Indian tribes as much as they lost to the American pioneer because of technological disadvantage They also couldn't work together. The Sioux and the Comanche spoke different languages. They were historical enemies. Maybe not those two tribes directly. One was too far south, the other too far north for too much direct interaction. But the Comanche and the Apache spoke different languages, have different histories. I've been killing each other for hundreds of years.

They couldn't turn and simply become a unified front to protect against what was a unified front encroaching upon them from the east. so here we are today what unifies our tribe that doesn't seem to be is no protection in support of our values and so we arrive at this place in american history much like the american indians or the early Palestinians divided look at this poll um from august 25th to september 11th a poll of 2008 registered voters published on the Miami Herald, published by the Miami Herald that reveals exactly the depth of the division of the United States of America. When asked if it's acceptable to employ violence to stop political opponents from attaining their goals, 41% of Biden supporters and 38% of Trump supporters said yes to employ violence.

to stop their opponent from attaining political goals. 41% of Biden voters, 38% of Trump supporters said yes to violence. 30% of Trump supporters and 25% of Biden supporters said elections should be suspended in a time of crisis. 41% of Trump supporters and 30% of Biden supporters said they favor either conservative or liberal states seceding from the union.

And nearly half of Biden supporters, 47%. but also 35% of Trump supporters said the government should restrict the expression of views considered discriminatory or offensive. In short, embracing censorship, divorcing themselves from the value of free speech, punishing thine opponent, embrace censorship, as long as it is at my enemy, my divided American. This was conducted by the Pew Research Center. This poll shows exactly the depths of division here in the United States of America

that is illustrated, by the way, by those protests across college campuses, that is highlighted by that riot, that insurrection in the U.S. Capitol by pro-Palestinians under the banner of global intifada. What you are looking at is a nation that is losing its common set of values. And what you are looking at in the future, if we continue down that path, is a nation that has no rallying point, no unifying. factor, no banner which brings us together. We never had race. We never really had religion. We had Judeo-Christian ethics, Christian foundation in our documents, always part of who we were, but never

limited with a freedom of religion. So what did we have? We only had our common values, and we have lost those values. And from that loss, from that, we now divided, divided on political lines, left and right, Republican, Democrat, divided on racial lines, divided on every single possible line. And when we are divided, and we are met with people migrating into this country, people educating themselves in some enlightened manner away from our values. When we are divided like that, we are ripe, like the early Palestinians or the Native Americans, we are ripe to be conquered. We'll be right back with more of the Will Kane podcast. Listen to the all-new Brett Bear podcast featuring Common Ground, in-depth talks with lawmakers from opposite sides of the aisle, along with all your Brett Bear favorites like his all-star panel and much more.

Available now at Fox Newspodcasts.com or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Jason Chaffetz from the Jason and the House podcast. Join me every Monday to dive deeper into the latest political headlines and chat with remarkable guests. Listen and follow now at Fox Newspodcast.com or wherever you download podcasts. Story number two, 30 plus years in the NBA on the court. Referey, Kenny Maurer has been there through Michael Jordan all the way up to James Harden. He has been a face you recognize if you watch the NBA. But no more.

Kenny's been terminated by the NBA for refusing the COVID vaccine. He is suing now for his religious freedom. I saw a tweet the other day from awful announcing, where Aaron Rogers was on the Pat McAfee show talking, as he often does about COVID. And the tweet by this, it's really not a very big blog at all. It's a small little publication, but called awful announcing. It said it's October 2023 and Aaron Rogers is the last person still talking about Dr. Fauci. No, that's not true.

You live in a bubble. The rest of the country understands what was done to us. COVID, it is not over. There will most likely be an effort to bring it back in terms of new vaccine mandates, a new wave of COVID, but it'll never take the way it did the first time around. Where we literally fired people for not taking an ineffective fact, fact, did not stop transition, transmission, as sold to us, an ineffective vaccine that some said, no, that doesn't pass my cost-benefit analysis. Some like referee Kenny Maurer.

He joins me today right here on the Will Kane podcast to talk about his fight against being forced to take that vaccine to retain his job with the NBA and his fight for religious freedom. Here's Kenny Maurer. Kenny Maurer. Anybody that's an NBA fan is at least familiar with your face, if not your name. We've been seeing you in the NBA on the court for 36 years. Sometimes love, Kenny, sometimes hate, depending on which way the calls go.

But I think everyone listening right now can probably hate the way this call went with the NBA. You were fired last fall for refusing the COVID vaccine. First, let's start with this. Why did you refuse the vaccine? Well, first of all, thanks for having me, Will. I've always been a big fan of yours. I'm not always a big fan of mainstream media, but I've remained a big fan of yours.

How's that? Oh, flattered. Thank you. And I don't say that flippantly. But anyway, it was easy for me a couple years ago, Will. the NBA conveniently changed the last year of our referees contract to say that if you don't vote in the mandate, you will not be allowed to referee in the NBA. So I went to a vote of 73 referees, men and women, and it was voted in 56, I think, to 17 or whatever. So the 717 of us

did not want to take the vaccine. We, you know, we were hearing a lot of the same things that you've heard and so many other people have heard. We didn't know a lot about it. But the NBA then offered us a religious and medical exemption, which the ones that wanted to move forward without taking the vaccine, we all chose to take a religious exemption, and the NBA denied every one of them. So a couple years ago, well, it was easy for me. I've been a Christian my whole life. I've practiced the Catholic faith, but I've been a Christian my whole life, and I just didn't believe in aborted fetal cells. I didn't believe in changing one's DNA through the MRI. I just didn't believe in that. I just didn't want to do that. And so my wife and I sat down

and I'm not saying it was an easy decision, Will, but it was one that I don't regret. And I would do the same thing again because of my religious beliefs. I chose not to take the vaccine. And then two years later, you know, the world's gone upside down. And I'm sure we're going to talk about that. You know, it's not important to me, Kenny, why you declined the vaccine. I think every single individual should have the right to choose their own medical path regardless of their reasoning. But the NBA required you to put forward a reason. They required you to submit a religious exemption.

And you just laid out a part of your reasoning to satisfy that religious exemption. You said you didn't believe in using aborted fetal cells and tissue to develop the vaccine. I've seen that you've been fact-checked on that from places like Sports Illustrated. I think the fact-checked in and of themselves are somewhat contradictory in that they say there was no fetal tissue used in the vaccine, but they were used in the development in the testing phase of the vaccine. The fact-check then goes on to say there's all kinds of medicines that use a similar process. What do you say to that? I mean, they would say you need to these fact-checkers have said, did you offer a similar complaint when it

came to ibuprofins or acetaminophanes or any others that might have used that in the same developmental phase of a medicine? Well, first of all, well, I've heard all of this about 150 times, so that's fine. I've always said, well, if you want to check with the so-called fact checkers, I've always said in the development and or manufacturing of the vaccine. So let's make that very clear. Now, you can go check the ingredients of your ivermectin and your ibuprofen, and you'll find that the ivermectin and um and ivermectin and excuse me hydroxychloroquine do not have aborted fetal cells or mRNA so go back to your fact checkers and say you know what first of all i did take ivermectin and hydroxychlorquine and i can show them the data that the you know nih h and the cdicdic

is now saying about ivermectin and hydrochicorican too but again that's not the issue that has nothing to do with what you and i are talking about and you're right later on the interview i would have said, this is not about politics, but other people are making it political. My employer is making it political. It's about them offering me a religious exemption, and it really doesn't matter, Will, what you think, or the fact checkers think, or anybody else thinks. That's my religious belief. I stand by my religious belief, and everybody in this country should be allowed to practice their religion and their medical beliefs. I'm for freedom. I'm for freedom of both, and I was denied both. I totally agree. I, you know, I, you know, I,

It's interesting, were I running the NBA, or anyone who is applying for an exemption, wouldn't consider myself worthy of a seat to consider your religious authenticity of your claim. I also wouldn't even tie it to your religious beliefs. I would just say you're a free man who can choose what's injected into his body, and your employment should not be predicated on that type of mandate. Do you think, Kenny, do you know what? is the current state of the NBA? Like, what does a ref now or a player, if that matter, have to satisfy? Have they been required to keep up with every single booster? What is required of someone

involved with the NBA? That's a great question, Will. I'm glad you asked it. Well, first of all, everybody was mandated to take the vaccine. And then before the end of, you know, all these years are going by now, but by the end of the 2021, 2021 season, in order, you know, excuse me, I'm sorry, the 21-22 season, you had to be mandated with the vaccine and booster in order to work the playoffs. Well, then the seven-year contract that I talk about, there is no mention of any mandate to take a vaccine in the new seven-year deal that was signed last October. So, again, I haven't been privy to a lot of the ins and outs of what's going on legally. I do still talk to a few people, and because of the lawsuit, I'm very privy to what, you know, what's going on as far as contracts

are concerned. But right now there is no mandate for players. Well, there's no mandate for anyone in the arena. There's no mandate for referees. But yet I just found out that they mandated on the application for all new referees that wanted to attend summer camp this past year, that they had to be vaccinated and boosted in order to attend summer camp. These young referees that are trying to get a job in the NBA, even though they say in our contract it's not mandated, they're saying that these young referees still have to be mandated and boosted in order to go to summer camp. So it's very confusing. It's very conflicting. It's very hypocritical as far as I'm concerned. So I hope I'm answering your question. According to the contract, there's no more mandates to take the vaccine,

but yet new hires are they're making sure that they were vaccinated and boosted. So if there's no more mandates, then I should be able to return to work, right? You would think. And I would also be curious, and I don't know if it's laid out in the contract, what does it mean to be boosted? You know, the Biden administration is talking about a new booster this coming fall. So is an NBA referee in order to maintain employment required to keep up with every new booster that is issued? That's a great question. Well, I don't know.

I believe they just finished their camp. It's a veterans. It's a camp that's held with all the referees, management, you know, in New York at the beginning of every season to take physicals, et cetera, et cetera, new rules. And to the best of my knowledge, there was no talk of any mandate. There was no talk of any new booster that each referee was going to be mandated to take at the physical. So that's all I know. I mean, I don't know. We're going to find out a lot of information. You know, discovery is moving forward. Depositions are on their way. And we're going to be deposing a lot of NBA people, both medical and, you know, all the big boys in the

league office. So we'll find out. We're going to ask all those same questions. and I'd love to come back and tell you because I'm anxious to hear the same thing, but they've always been so up in the air from the very beginning. First of all, they weren't going to mandate, then they were, then they weren't. The players, as you well know, were never mandated. The players in the NFL were never mandated. Major League Baseball players were never mandated. NFL referees were never mandated, and Major League Baseball umpires were never mandated.

But because our NBA referee, our union, so weak, wanted to make themselves, you know, you know, in good terms with the NBA office decided that, you know, we're going to push forward this contract because this is what our employer wants to do. You know, two years ago I would have said and did say, because I was still on staff, has the players mandated? Have they been mandated? The answer was no. Well, two weeks before the season, what were they going to do? Well, if we didn't sign the contract, were they going to go out and get 73 referees? So, I mean, I don't know why we felt it necessary to mandate this vaccine. Again, I come back to what you said so eloquently. No one should be mandated to take a vaccine in their arm if they don't want to. If you want to, I think it's

fine. I will still meet with you, have lunch with you, be your friend. I don't judge people on whether or not they want to take the vaccine. I don't judge people on what religion they want to belong to. I don't care if it's Hindu or Protestant or Catholic, but people again should be allowed to, you know, take part in whatever religion or medical practice that they want. Yeah, we've had Jonathan Isaac NBA player who famously has refused the vaccine on this program. I didn't realize until you just laid it out, that not only were players not mandated, but every other umpire and referee union and other professional sports were not required to mandate. What an indictment of your union leadership. Well, I've said that, and I'm sure I'm not held in

great esteem right now, but I'll say it again. They're very weak. The lawyers are very weak. And I kept saying, are you representing the referees, or are you working with the NBA? again, hockey referees were the only other professional referee that had to because of Canada. Canada was so vigilant on making everybody take the impact then. Again, a lot of people forget, Will, what went on two years ago. Now all they want to do is they want to push it under the rug. Let's go, let's move forward. Everything's hokey dokey and everything's great.

And that's just not, we have to go back and look at what took place. Why did it take place? Why did the NBA do this? Why? I mean, why did they, why were they so vigilant on? on making everybody. What was their end goal? Why? I mean, do they not know that people have suffered and died from this? What are they trying to accomplish here? But again, that's why I'm going to court. I had two choices. Well, I could either just go off into the sunset where I could

get a lawyer and three of us are suing them in federal court. Well, that's why I asked you about the continued mandate under a regime of boosters. Because the response, I imagine, was and will be to you that it was required to maintain some type of safety protocol for everybody involved in the NBA. But that safety protocol requires you to believe that the vaccine offered safety. And if you don't continue with the booster regime, you're admitting that the vaccine wasn't the safety, you know, prophylactic that you pretended it to be, that it didn't work. And then therefore, to answer your question, Kenny, about why they did it in that moment in time, therefore it wasn't about safety. It wasn't about science. It was giving into this public hysteria at the time, at the moment. I mean, that's my guess. That's my answer for the reasoning of the NBA. Simply, if I had Mark Cuban on, it would simply be, he would dress it up in some type of interesting language, but it would simply be to simply go along to get along, to give in to the public panic.

Well, I agree with you. And let me take it one step further. First of all, the NBA doesn't do anything that isn't, you know, money orientating. You mean to tell me that, you know, the NBA was just going to do this without being compensated whatsoever? We know the NFL was compensated. We like to find out whether the NBA was as well. But let's say one step further. First of all, safety and health has nothing to do with your religious convictions. That's number one. I believe your religious convictions override anything to do with safety and health.

There's many people that have died for their religions, you know, as far as or many people coming over. Like I say, there's a quote that I have. I don't have with me right now, but people came over on the Mayflower. and their religious beliefs, you know, were far surpassed anything to do with safety and health. But let me take one step further will. Let me ask you this question. And I would beg you to try to answer it. If it was worth, it was all about safety and health.

Why didn't they mandate the players? Right. No, I can't answer that question. And another thing. No, you can't. What they did was they mandated the people at the table. They mandated journalism people like yourself that would sit at court site. They mandated the fans.

They mandated the coaches. They mandated the referee. They mandated everybody to protect the product, but they never mandated the product to protect the people. Why? Why? And again, that just leads to, if you're going to go down safety and health with me, boy, I tell you, when Dr. McCalla and Dr. Northrop and Dr. Colan, they all show up in the courtroom, we'll love to talk about safety and health with you. They're, hey, they're more than willing to talk about safety and health if the NBA wants to go down that road. But the point is that my religious convictions said that this had, you know, they used aborted fetal cells in the development and or manufacturing.

Okay, they use it and the horrific harvesting of these cells that they used. I'm just plain not for that. So my religious beliefs, and they offered the religious exemption, well, I didn't ask for it. They offered it. And then they denied everyone. And I'm trying to figure on what grounds did you deny my religious exemption? the fact that I took Ivermact it

what does that have to do with my religious beliefs the fact that they're saying that it didn't have a board yes it did have a border fetal cells in the development and or manufacturing so those are the two reasons they denied my religious exemption and we just don't feel that's justified

you're not allowed by law by constitution to deny one's religious beliefs and I believe I believe Kenny that I don't have you already been through a few depositions with the NBA no depositions are starting as a matter of fact this month well i believe there's been i've read about the exchanges between the nba or its attorneys and maybe other referees where they've pursued these

two lines of of of argument with you um one that the pope and you were catholic i believe you have i don't know if you have converted to baptist or i know i believe you submitted a letter from a baptist preacher certifying your genuine religious belief but they would they pointed to the pope embracing the vaccine. That's one line of argument. Is that correct? Well, first of all, did you see the entire quote will? Or are you only taken the one sentence snippet that all of you, all the people that are you're related to? Did you, I have the entire two-page statement made by the Pope. That will be read in my deposition. Because it also, okay, but if you read the entire quote, the Pope doesn't absolve you of your religious belief. I wouldn't think. I'm not a Catholic, Kenny, but I mean,

I may not have a full quote, but I also would find it unnecessary in that the easy response to that, I would think, would be that's good for the Pope. But it's not right for my religious belief. You're absolutely right, Will, you took the words out of my mouth. First of all, the Pope is a human being. And, you know, I may respect the Pope, but I don't always agree on everything that the Pope has to say. First of all, I'm a Christian. You know, I practice Catholic. I've been a Catholic my life, but I'm a Christian.

And I don't think that there's anything in the Bible that says anything about, you know, a boy. fetal cells being loud in one's, you know, one's thinking as far as whether or not I should be inserting either a vaccine or something into my body that has, you know, dead fetal tissue in it or the developing of. But you're right, the Pope doesn't make, and then they asked me the same question, well, and I said to this, I said, back in World War II well, a lot of beautiful Jewish people were slaughtered by the, by the Germans. And it's common knowledge now that the Vatican knew what was going on and didn't do a thing about it. Do you, Will, agree with the Pope's stance at that time? Just say yes or no. Now let me talk to you about the Pope in the 1980s, when all

the priests were molesting young children. And the Pope did not punish one priest, but rather move priests around. Will, do you agree with the Pope's stance in the 1980s? No, and that therefore does not mean an endorsement by the Pope defines religious belief, to your point. You're exactly right. I'm agreeing with you 100% and you're, yes, you're saying the exact thing I am. And I try to tell the people, don't give me one quote that was taking out of context by a poke. First of all, I don't agree with that on his stances. And I can give you quotes by 16 cardinals that came out and totally, you know, were appalled by what he had said. But again, it was just part of the quote.

He goes into moral and ethics about the way you feel morally and ethically about this vaccine. And if you feel this way, you should not be taken. There's more to that quote than you think. It's just the naysayers and the people. But again, again, the Pope can believe whatever he wants and, you know, other people can believe whatever they want. But it really doesn't matter. Well, that's not what I believe. And that's not my religious conviction. And no one's going to change my religious beliefs. Not the NBA, not anybody. Everybody can have their opinions. And I please, I respect all of their opinions. But I ask people to respect mine. And so the second line of argument, Kenny, that they're going to try to make, I imagine, in this case for you, is that your religious beliefs. is not genuine, and I wish them the best of luck in that. But they're trying to make the argument that your belief is somehow political or medical, as though those are insufficient. But they're going to try to make the argument that your religious belief isn't genuine. And that goes to what I said earlier. They're going to try to point out hypocrisy. And they are going to say, do you take

X medicine, Kenny, whatever that medicine may be. Again, I've read, I don't know for a fact, but simple ibuprofins, right, pain relievers, might use field tissue in their developmental stage. It might not be in the, might not be in the Advil that you take over the counter, but in the development of that Advil along its way, it used fetal tissue, and they'll say to you, Kenny, do you take Advil? And they're going to attempt to point to that hypocrisy as evidence that your religious belief is not genuine. I understand. I'm well aware of that. Very good. But first of all, please show me where aborted fetal cells were in the development of of Advil. And you know what? I don't believe that's the case. But if it is, I won't take Advil. I will knowingly not take anything. And again, I like to ask the question, who's going to

determine my religious beliefs in the NBA will? You know, for almost 40 years that I refereed, they didn't know if I went to church on Sunday. They didn't know if I was married in a Catholic Church. They didn't know if I took communion. They didn't know if I received my, you know, they didn't know anything. They didn't know anything about my Catholic faith or my Christian faith for 40 years. Now all of a sudden, they're going to judge me on my Catholic faith. Well, I welcome those questions. Well, I really do. And I really do. I, in fact, not, hey, I have several Jewish. In fact, my lawyer is one of my favorite people in the world. He's Jewish. But I had a Jewish lawyer interview me about my Christian faith. Okay. Well, I have a lot of,

we have a lot of questions for him in the deposition, too. He's going to be, he's going to be to polls too. Well, I think it's fascinating that they cast themselves in the seat of a religious purity test. I mean, if you're going to point to hypocrisy as whether or not a belief is held genuinely, boy, you got a bit, the line runs out the door and around the world of hypocrisy or failing to live the purest on whether or not you are truly conviction, you have true convictions. You are so right. You're right. You're both smiling. Again, are we all sinners? Yes. Are we all, you know, children of God? Yes. Are we all, do we all make mistakes? Yes. You know, I, I really don't care. I believe in our Lord Jesus Christ. I believe in the ever after. I believe in

eternity. I try to live a good life. Do I make mistakes? Yes. Have I sworn a few times in my life? Yes. I'm not perfect. No, come on, Kenny. Really? On the court? Yeah, no. No, well, no, I went right back at them the way they came at me. And, you know, I have great respect for the players. And that was all part of the game. And I'm friendly with so many of them that I refereed. And I still love the sport. Will, I love the NBA. I mean, I love the players and the game and the thought of refereeing 10 of the greatest athletes in the world and some of the coaches I remain friends with. I just don't agree with the policy that the NBA has taken with religion.

I mean, whatever you want to do business-wise, whatever you want to take on with, you know, form this or foreign this or whatever you want to do with, you know, with businesses within the United States, that's fine. But, I mean, I just don't think the NBA should be getting involved with. And you know, well, there's only three of us. It started out with 17, but then there came down to five. One went the arbitration process, Leroyer Richardson, a good friend of mine, and he lost. My lawyer said he was going to lose.

You know, it was a union lawyer, it was an NBA lawyer, and it was an arbitrator that was hired by the NBA. Well, how'd you think his arbitration was going to go, two to one? And there was a minor league referee who they bought out a wonderful young man named David Walker, who, you know, could have been an NBA referee. but there's three of us, Mark Ayat, Jason Phillips and myself, and, you know, it's been very difficult over the two years. I mean, my wife and I see a counselor. I mean, my wife gets, she cries, you know, I mean, I feel terrible with putting your family. People have no idea, Will, what this is like unless you've actually gone through it. I applaud you and I thank you for allowing me just to talk

like this, but people have no idea and I sometimes think they don't care, but I've been doing a lot of podcast, I took part of the event the other day a week ago that I spoke in front of almost 10,000 people. And there's a lot of people, Will, that really just won our life spec and want to be allowed our freedoms. And that's what I'm fighting for. I'm fighting for myself and a lot of other people who can't do it. I'm really sorry to hear the way that's taken a toll, an obvious toll that any one of us should be able to put ourselves in the seat or the shoes of on you and your family. It must give you some hope that you've seen some victories out there. I believe it was like New York State nurses. There's been, there's been some victories out there of people

who've been reinstated, got back pay on this fight for medical or religious freedom. There's got to be some hope there for you. Oh, thank you for bringing that up. Yes. When I do my, when I speak, you know, I've become friends with Senator Jensen here from Minnesota too. We speak a lot about that. Yeah, there's been, well, the Air Force people, you know, in New York, they all won. There's policemen that have won. There's teachers that have won. The, what do you call it? The, Court reporters in the courts in New York have won. Like you said, the nurses just won. I mean, it's phenomenal all of these cases.

But people will just, they don't have the money. I'm borrowing money, you know. I mean, that's okay. So many friends are helping support me because they want to push what's going on here. But people can't do that. They don't have the funds or they don't have the wherewithal or the great attorney that I have. So there's a lot of people that lost their jobs, lost their businesses, lost their life, lost their livelihoods. So I just think it's wrong. Why? Because because of a vaccine that if somebody doesn't

choose to put it in their arm because of either a religious or medical belief, then you're chastise? I don't get it well. I don't know where we're going in this world, but I'm not going to allow it. My wife and I are not going to change our philosophies on life. I never have for 40 years. And I've been the same way for 40 years, Will. If the NBA wants to think I've changed, let them come at me. I'm ready for it. On the note of that money in your fight, I know you have a give-s-sind-go that you're asking people to help in your fight with the NBA. You want to tell us about that gives-s-and-go? Well, first of all, thank you again.

That's nice of you to bring that up. Yes, I don't believe in GoFundMe, and I don't like the way they've taken, you know, just funds away from people because they didn't like their narrative. I want nothing to do with GoFundMe. but give send go is, you know, partnered by a lot of religious groups. And so Senator Johnson, as a matter of fact, talked to me about that. And what I decided to do, Will, as I said, you know, anybody that gives. And I've been so humbled by the comments on this, on this, you know, you can go down and read what people have said when they, some people give $5, $10, $100, $100, $50, $20, $500. And then they give the most wonderful comments that, you know, humble you to your knees.

And it's just how they want me to keep this fight up. that's what keeps me going. But I agreed that whatever money I received from this give send go, whatever I got well, and whatever I won as a result, I'm going to win this case. And when I win, whatever I get back that I paid out from this give send go, I'm going to pay it back. I'm going to give, I'll show you right online where it's going. I'm going to give it to other people that needed from a, I have a friend of mine that's got a clinic down in Texas that treats almost 50,000 adversely affected, you know, people because of the vaccine. I'm going to give money to him.

I'm going to give money to Wisconsin. This is a group of people that are Wisconsin Unified for Freedom. I'm going to give people to people that maybe their lawsuits. Maybe they're fighting the same thing I am. I'm not going to keep any of it, Will. But, you know, attorneys fees get a little crazy. And it's a little nuts right now, but financially. So anything that can help is great.

But I promise you, I will pay it back. And I'll show you on the Gives and Go account where it's going. And it's Gives and Go slash Kenny Mauer, M-A-U-E-R. I want to take you up on this opportunity that I have with you for one moment to follow up on giving it back to players. So, Kenny, I played water polo in college, which has a few similarities to the NBA. And I would say it is even more subjective in its officiating than the NBA. and you may take issue with that with that characterization but you know can you call a foul on any given play can you truly see what happened it's all happening so quickly water polo is tough because a lot of it's happening under the water for the referee so what the reason i bring that up is i used to watch my coach who by most estimations i went to pepper dine his name is terry schroeder and by most estimations he's the greatest american water pole player of all time i used to watch him work the ref right and he would uh he would keep count as well as the game went on hey you've called 10 fouls on us and six on them, the implication being, look, this is a subjective

game and you're not even. My question for you is, in a game where there is a lot of gray area, who's the best at work in the ref, making a logical or passionate argument that gets your attention versus turning you off? And we have to, I would have to guess, Kenny, there is some, I don't want to call it personal relationship, but clash of personalities in this moments that can work for or against you as a coach or a player. First of all, I want to tell you, I played water pole a couple times. You really have to be in shape to play water pole. People have no idea the shape you have to be in to play that sport.

To do what you have to do constantly in water and you're not, your feet aren't touching the bottom of the pool. I mean, it's like it's, anyway, it's, it's, it's. It's great. You're right. It's very subjective. And I would say that the best referees are the people that know how to handle that gray area. We're human beings. And somebody that's going to come at you and complain about every call, well, it's going to go in one and out the other. And after a while, he's probably going to be given a technical file and maybe ejected. But somebody that, you know, I always told people, if Michael came up to me once a game and asked me about a play or said, listen, I got hit on that play. If he said it once a game, I didn't even have to look at the replay after the game.

Well, I knew I missed it because he doesn't, he didn't, he did it once maybe a game. But if you get a player that's going to come up to you and barrage you with whatever you want to call it, every other time down the floor with plays that you, it just goes in one or out the other. He has no credibility. I'm not listening to him because I'm sorry, I'm not perfect. Yes, I've never refereed a game without missing a call. But I didn't miss 13 calls the last two minutes. I just didn't.

I'm a professional, and I wouldn't be here if I missed 13 calls. So, yes, I mean, talking in a professional, it's about managing people. Anybody can call a foul will. How do you manage people? It's very emotional. How do you manage that coach? How do you bring them back off the ledge? How do you manage that player?

How do you handle them? Left or right, don't be afraid you made a mistake. I would say getting at the freezer line or underneath the basket or when I'm taking the ball out of bounds. hey come here you know listen that last play you're right i missed it i didn't see it i didn't get a good look at i kicked it i missed it and that goes that goes a long way with players because they make mistakes and to show them you're human to show them that you you're not perfect you can miss a play um it goes a long way and when you're a young referee you don't get the opportunity to do that because they think you miss every play so when you get you know when you get far along in

your career and then when you get to the maybe to the level i was with experience wise you have a rapport with these players and these coaches. Some of the coaches will, I refereed them when they played. Right. I refereed their sons are now playing in the league. I refereed their fathers. So, I mean, it's, and I'm proud of that. And I'm proud of the NBA.

And I'm proud of those athletes. But so no, an athlete that continues to complain to a referee isn't well respected. He isn't well taken. And you know what? He's not going to get very far. you have a complaint, get it to the referee in the right way, and he'll probably admit he was wrong, or if he was right, he'll tell you why he was right, and that's how you build relationships. And that's all about life. I wish somebody would explain this to Luca. I'm a huge

fan of Luca, but I wish somebody would explain this to Luca. I did. I went up to him one time in a game. I'm a, hey, big fan. I think he's a great kid. I don't know him personally. But I went up to him one time. I said, you know, I said, Luca, no one's listening. to you. You shit and complain at every play. And then he's wanted to talk about the play. I said, I'm not talking about the play down the court. I'm talking about during the game. You complain at everything. No one, I'm not listening to you. I don't listen to a word you say. You have no credibility with me. Why don't you get back with the grades before you that when they complain once or twice. No whiskey, when no whiskey, he likes no whiskey. When when dirt complained once or

twice, I listened to him because I knew he was right. But you, you complain at every plane. I'm sorry. I'm not listening to you. You've lost me. And I said it. And Rick Carly was his coach at the time. And Rick's a class act. I told Rick the same thing. I said, Rick, that kid, he's got to learn what a foul is and isn't. He said, I know, Kenny, we're working on him. So great talent, great, great player, but I feel the same way. The kid's just got to rein it back in and he's got to realize that he's not getting fouled in every play. We're professionals too. You know, I heard this the other day, Kenny, they were talking about, some guys were talking about baseball. And they were talking about the difference between the NBA, the NHL, the NFL, and

baseball. And it was really fascinating to think, do you know how many NFL coaches have been kicked out of an NFL game? I think the answer is zero. And I got to imagine those guys are working the refs and yelling at them. And in the NBA, you guys do kick a coach out, you know, but the truth is it pales in comparison to what happens in baseball. I don't know the culture of the game. I mean, I do know the culture of the game, but I don't know how it got this way that the ump in baseball is in a position where his authority to boot someone is just much more liberal than it is in other sports. I don't know if you know umpires. And I don't know what the culture is in the NBA that they tell you, hey, last resort when you kick a guy out. But baseball seems to be the outlier.

I know many baseball umpires, and again, have great respect for them. I think referees in general should do more of what Major League Baseball does. That's just my opinion. I'm old school. No, I mean, if you're going to continue to berate an umpire on a called strike right in front of him, you know, I mean, and a lot of, you know, then they don't take anything. They don't take any, you know what, they don't take it. They just get rid, and they run them. And it's well known in the league that if you cross the line with an umpire, you're going to get, you're going to get tossed.

There is no, like, technical foul in baseball. in our league, okay, you've got a technical foul. That's enough. Stop. Second one, you're gone. You can throw them on one, but usually it's the second technical foul that you're gone on. But baseball, they don't have that so-called technical foul warning, whatever the heck you want to call it. And so baseball, no, they know when they go over the line, those players and coaches are well taught as to what they can and can't say. And I can just, in some of the words that are going back and forth, or I should say, coming at the umpire, you know, I won't repeat them here. but in basketball it's a same you know they know they they know where the line is they know what the magic word is i mean if you embarrass a referee he should be given a tech i would not i do i hey if i embarrass a

player i'm going to get fined i don't know that i've ever embarrassed the player i'm not going to get fine if they embarrass the referee they're going to get a technical foul and if they continue to do it they're going to leave the arena and i just tell you know i just tell players is it worth it is it worth paying the money and and and leaving the arena and hurting your team because you didn't like and you know you find out a lot of times when you get to know them it wasn't the one call will it wasn't even the two calls they're human beings they might have had an argument with their wife before they came to the arena they might have you know have trouble with the finances they might have had a a fight with a player who knows but you know sometimes it's a job and you

bring some things on the floor and it's uh it's it's it's difficult sometimes again it's all about managing people many times i've said to the player okay what the hell's wrong today because it isn't the call that I just missed or didn't miss. There's something more here. What's wrong? And in my 25th, 20th, 30th year, they would tell me. So let's go back to your case. Kenny, I appreciate you indulging me on that.

It's a fun conversation, which I would love to explore more, including you can tell me at some point. You don't have to tell me today. You can tell me your favorite and least favorite players to referee. Sure. I would. I would. Okay, well, then tell me that right now.

Yeah. Who's your favorite? Who's your least favorite to referee? Well, players, when I say least favorite, I don't always mean I don't like them personally. I mean, they're so clever and they're so good and they're so – I mean, refereeing Shaq was difficult every night because we let more plays go against Shaq. Shack got fouled more and we didn't call them than he followed other people because he was so big and so strong. He'd get whacked and he finished with dunk and we said oh that was just shack he made you know it's okay let's play on well we weren't right

we were wrong same thing with wilk but way back when i didn't referee wilt he was before my time but shack was so difficult to referee post players like that were so difficult to referee you know duncan i mean um um elijah with his feet were so difficult to referee and then you've got offensive players that were so so so like like the shooters they go up so quick step curry is difficult to referee sometimes. I think he's a great kid, great young man. I would have to think Hardin is in that category.

Oh, he was next. Hardin uses his off arm constantly. Well, you're watching the dribbler and you're watching the defender. Are you watching his off arm? Well, so I don't see him always push off with his off arm because I'm watching the dribbler and I'm watching to see if the defender reached and was hitting him. And he's warding him off with it.

So clever, so good. Great player. I mean, so when I say difficult, I don't mean that there's some good and bad guys in the NBA as far as jerkoffs are concerned. But I mean, there's probably, they feel the same way about referees. But as far as players are concerned, yeah, the clever ones, the good ones, the first step, did they travel? Jimmy Butler is tough to referees sometime. The post players are tough to referees. I mean, we could have a long conversation, and I'd love to explain to you why.

They're just so clever and so good that they fool us. And then the guys that flop, those are the guys that really don't like. Those guys that never get touched and act like they got shot out of a cannon, that's the players. I go back and look at their videotape and said, the guy didn't even get touched and he acts like he's dead. I mean, I think from what I understand, the NBA is going to try to be more stringent on addressing that this year. And it's just, it's not good for the game. All the European players started it when they came over from Europe. They all started that.

And your favorite, would it be what you talked about with Jordan? Was it just a guy that works with you throughout the game? Well, the thing about Jordan was is that, and I refereed his entire careers, Jordan respected the game and he respected us. I mean, you know, at least he made us feel like he respected us. I mean, I respect what you do, and I don't respect everybody in your profession. Well, I told you that already. But I respect you. And I'm not saying that because I'm on your show.

People, I'm telling you the truth. Okay, I respect your stance and I think you're fair on both sides. I respect that. Same thing with players. You want players to, if players don't respect me, do you think I like them? Do you think I respect them? I'm going to referee them. I'm going to be fair with them. But some players, you know, Michael was respectful of referees. He was the hardest working player in his team. He was the first one on the floor, the first one off the floor. He made everybody better. He got in every one of their rear ends. He was all over them. But he was very respectful of us. I mean, back then, we were even allowed to get autographs once in a while. Now they want you to go through the legal office. I understand. But I I mean, I would go up to Michael. I was still wet behind the years. I was in my fifth or eighth or 10th year, you know, and I would say, Michael, I have a, I have a charitable organization that I'm going to give to a charity. Can I have your, would you sign? Yes, Kenny, you send it into me. I'll

get it done. He didn't have to do that for me. He didn't know me. I wasn't like going to be refereeing him in the finals that year or anything like that. I just thought Michael was a class act. I thought he worked, he worked hard and I respected him. There's some ones nowadays. I respect Jimmy Butler. I respect Steph Curry. I respect some of these guys. I mean, they're such great athletes but um you know i guess you know one of my favorites was that was michael he was uh he was as good as they came he was good to us well that's fun stuff and um anytime you want to come on here and explain to me a call during the NBA season when i get mad come come April on you're welcome to come explain to me how it was right or it was wrong uh i want to return to your case though Kenny um

the one part of your case it seems to me unconscionable that i mean the entire thing seems I'm conscionable, to be fair. But I guess the egregious cherry on top is that they're going after your, it's reported, they're going after your pension. You know, something that you've earned over 36 years of a career. What's the rationale? How are they telling you that somehow you can't have your pension? Well, I'm, yeah, I'm glad.

I can talk all about that. So I'm really glad you brought that up. Well, I think you probably already know the answer. I know everybody that I've ever discussed this with, you know, as far as friends and family, they already know the answer. I mean, the NBA wants to break me. They want me to go away. They don't want me to fight this.

They don't want bad publicity. They don't want to be asked questions. Come on. You're a smart guy. You know that already. So, yes, I've got a wonderful pension that the rule said that when I was suspended my, for the first year, I was not allowed, you're not allowed to get your pension until you're either terminated, retire, or you die.

That's what the pension says. And it's, I don't know, 36, 42 pages. I could have sent it to you. I will do that the next time. I would really like to do that. You can read it. So I waited the 60 days. So then I waited the year.

I wouldn't change my mind. So on October 1st of 2012, they terminated me. And by that time, I'd already had the lawyer, and we were already into, we went with the EEOC first and Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. They sat on it for almost a year, Will, didn't do a thing about it. pushed it under the rug. So then we filed a writ to sue and went to the federal court house, federal system on October 1st of last year. So when I was officially terminated in October, you have to wait like 60 to 90 days. I did that. In January or February, what January I think it was,

I applied for my pension. It's a defined benefit pension that I, that I, you know, had accumulated through my, you know, 36 years. So I was told by the legal office via emails, have all the emails, that I was going to receive the pension on March 1st. I was even going to meet with a dear friend of mine who was my financial advisor. I flew up to Minnesota to meet with him on that March 1st to discuss where I was going to put my money and what I was going to do this and that. I'd never done anything like this in my life. So then I had to get a lawyer. I've got two lawsuits now, Will. Two months ago, my attorney's bills were $40,000 in one month. And so they said that in the denial, they said, the judge may reinstate you. And my lawyer said, what does that

have to do with anything? It says here that he was terminated, I mean, that he, excuse me, that he was as he was terminated. He's allowed his pension. It doesn't matter whether the judge, what if this goes on 10 years? I mean, the guy has to wait for his pension 10 years because he may be reinstated. And another thing he said was, they never even gave my client the opportunity to say, okay, let's say the judge does reinstate him. He just say, I don't want another pension. I'm done. I don't want another pension. They never even gave him that opportunity. You know and I know they're just not denying my pension because they don't want me to have the funds to continue to fight them. Plain and simple, very simple, that's it. So we've got a lawsuit. We filed a summary

judgment. It's in front of the judge. It's been there for five weeks. And it could be ruled on today, tomorrow the next day but yeah i mean you know you go from respecting and loving working for a company for so many years to first it was denying my religious beliefs and now holding off on my pension because you don't want me to i'm sorry will um that was like the final straw there's no rationale for that there's no rhyme or reason there's no reason why they should be denying me my money they just don't want me to have they don't want me to be able to continue this and so yeah that was yeah you can have your opinion i'd love to hear it but there's no law you can read the entire pension and there's nowhere that says well you know if he's

involved in a lawsuit and the judge may reinstate him that we don't have we there's what they're saying will is is that any person that is terminated or retires from his job he may come back to work for us so we don't have to give him his pension and that's just not the law that's just not the law how many people do you know that how many people do you know they're retired and then gone back and work for the company. How many people can know that may have been terminated and then took another position with that same company? Many. And so I don't understand the rationale. My lawyer doesn't, and we'll see what the judge says. Yeah, it doesn't seem to be any good faith interest in bringing you back. And if you do, what will be your vaccine mandate? Kenny Maurer, this has

been fascinating. We're going to stay up on your case. I hope you stay in touch with us, and I'd love to continue to talk sports with you anytime you would like. I really appreciate you sharing your story with us today. When I get my word on that pension, let's get back. and we'll talk some more of that. We'll talk some more of everything we talked about. How's that? That sounds good. All right. Thanks, Kenny.

Thanks, Will. There you go. I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Kenny Mauer. You heard there where you can find his give sin to go to help support his fight for religious freedom. We're going to step aside here for a moment. Stay tuned. Following Fox's initial donation to the Kerr County Flood Relief Fund, our generous viewers have answered the call to action across all Fox platforms and have helped raise $7 million.

visit go dot fox forward slash tx flood relief to support relief and rebuilding efforts story number three as i'm at the squirrel hunt this weekend saddled up around a campfire probably eating catfish probably not cleaning a squirrel we will be watching college football it's what i love about small town texas you know and what i miss about the southwest conference i'll argue at night with half of these dudes about the rangers versus the astros then we'll come back together the next morning to both root on the Texas longhorns. The guys that were on my side with the Rangers a few hours before will argue with me about Baylor or TCU or Texas Tech. I love that. It's almost like the Muslim. It's almost like the Islam saying, you know, me against my brother, me and my brother

against my cousin, me and my brother and my cousin against the world. It's like the insetuous little world of sports and college football in Texas, and I love that. But my eyes will turn away from the state of Texas. My eyes will turn to the Big Ten. If you look at the top standings in college football, three teams stick out, three Big Ten teams. Ohio State, Michigan, and Penn State, all undefeated. And they all will play each other. It has to sort itself out. It will not be. I can't imagine two Big Ten teams end up making the college football playoff. So who will emerge? Ohio State, Penn State, or Michigan. This weekend, Ohio State takes on Penn State.

Now, every ounce of my being wants to root, wants to pick Penn State. I think I've done it year after year. And I've continuously lost. It's not that I hate Ohio State. I mean, I hate how Ohio State comes into Texas and takes all the best receivers. And they do. Ever since Brian Hartline's been the wide receiver coach to Ohio State. They don't just raid Texas.

They get the best receivers everywhere. Everywhere. And I hate that. it's not that I hate Ohio State in any particular way. I don't care about them versus Michigan. I don't really care about them versus Penn State, although I do love Penn State's uniforms. I love the clean, plain, blue, navy blue, and white.

Love it. Nothing on the helmet. Love it. Sorry. I like boring, traditional, simple. But I just kind of like, want something new. I get tired of Ohio State, Georgia, and Alabama. I want something new.

Penn State has 14 returning. seniors. Ohio State has not looked good as compared to Ohio State of the past. I think even Buckeye fans can admit that. Maybe Kyle McCord is getting to be a good college quarterback, but he hasn't been what you're used to in the past. The defensive line is good. Of course, the receivers are great. But you know, you know, it's been, it's been, it hasn't been a dominating undefeated start to the season. And they feel more vulnerable than they have in the past. Where Penn State, it looks like on paper absolutely, Will, this is the year you should do it then. go all in this is the year you should pick pin state and honestly i don't care i just want them all

to beat each other i'll take pin state beating ohio state ohio state beating michigan i don't know when michigan pin state maybe but just beat each other up that's what i root for or maybe i's root for one to be undefeated and the other to have two losses i don't know you're going to get one of them into the playoff i don't know of course i'm rooting back in to make sure that texas can get in by winning the big 12 but everything about me says pick pin state this is the time you could be right. And like a guy who's been at the roulette table picking red over and over and over

and you tell yourself, no, hey, it's going to go red. You're getting, I'm down to the last bit of my chips. And it was like, don't move off, don't move off. The odds are, no, the odds are the same every time. It's 50-50. I'm moving back to black. I can't pick Penn State. Can't do it anymore.

I've been burned too many times. I'm going to have to take Ohio State, even minus the four and a half at home. against Penn State. I'll see you next time with stories from the campfire from the annual squirrel hunt and catfish rodeo. And we will pick up part two in our series of the conflict between the Israelis and the Palestinians. I'll see you next time. Listen to ad free with a Fox News podcast plus subscription on Apple Podcast and Amazon Prime members. You can listen to this show, ad free on the Amazon Music Academy.

I've got a podcast. I hope you will join me every Tuesday and Thursday as we navigate life together and hopefully find ourselves a little bit better on the other side. Listen and follow now at Fox Newspodcast.com.