Will Cain Country - Revisiting Conversations With The Candidates: Nikki Haley And Vivek Ramaswamy

Episode Date: December 25, 2023

Merry Christmas from The Will Cain Podcast! On today's episode, Will revisits two important conversations that he had this year with 2024 Republican presidential hopefuls in former U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Nikki Haley and entrepreneur turned politician Vivek Ramaswamy. As we begin to approach the beginning of the Republican primary season, it's important to go back and get an honest look at two of the main challengers to former President Donald Trump and Florida Governor Ron DeSantis.  Tell Will what you thought about this podcast by emailing [e-mail] Follow Will on Twitter: @WillCain Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What we may be witnessing is the end of the American Empire. And with that, Canada has never been more vulnerable. Gloves off is a podcast about the threat to Canada's sovereignty and what we can do about it. I'm Stephen Marsh. We break down the hard questions with outspoken experts and thinkers as well as everyday Canadians. The gloves come off, Canada Day, Tuesday, July 1st, wherever you get your podcasts. Merry Christmas from the Wilcane podcast. Hey, what's up?

It's Wilcane of the Wilcane podcast. As always, I hope you will download, rate, and review this podcast wherever you get your audio entertainment. Apple, Spotify, or a Fox News podcast. It is December 25th. It is the birth. of our Lord. It is Christmas. Merry Christmas. I doubt that you're listening to this podcast on Christmas Day. Maybe it's December 26th. Maybe it's late on the 25th. Maybe you're catching up a week later. I just want you to know that as this podcast uploads on December 25th, I am wishing

you, whatever you are doing, drinking eggnog, opening presents, ripping through them in about 30 minutes, or making it last and dragging it out over hours, picking up trash, stuffing those gigantic trash bags full of wrapping paper, hanging out with your kids, with your parents, with your family, with your friends, with your wife,

hanging out in reverence of the actual acknowledgement of this day, the birth of Jesus Christ, wherever you are, I want you to know how much I appreciate you and that I'm telling you today, Merry Christmas. For today's episode, because it is Christmas,

and let's be real. I'm off on Christmas. I thought we might do something. As you catch up and prepare for 2024, I want to lay out two of the more important interviews we did in 2023. Last week, a Colorado Supreme Court ruled that Donald Trump would not be on the ballot in Colorado. It's going to immediately go to the United States Supreme Court. But this is an astounding four-three decision by the Colorado Supreme Court. It seemed to be no extent to which the defenders of democracy won't go to sort of

subvert the will of democracy. If the will of democracy is to choose Donald Trump, there's nothing that will be done that will not be tried to stop Donald Trump. Look, it's been four criminal cases. I don't know how many civil cases. Internet censorship, media censorship, slander and lies. And look, the point isn't that Donald Trump is a saint. On Christmas, we can be reminded, there are very few. But the point is that all of these attempts to paint him as the devil were false, that he is some fascist dictator thug that is a threat to democracy, when in fact, they have done everything to undermine democracy. This Colorado case keeping him off the ballot is, I think, the laying down of the cards. Oh, now we see. And we'll have to see. I don't know what

they will do in 2024. I don't know how they will allow the country to elect Donald Trump. Now, how that works out legally, we'll see. The Colorado GOP has said they'll remove themselves from the primary process. They'll go to a caucus and good for them. But several other candidates like Vivek Grem Swami said he'll take his name off the Colorado ballot if this is how it goes, if they want to be this corrupt. So, however it shakes out, many, people. Democrats, Joe Biden, and probably some Republican challengers are planning on the idea that Donald Trump can't run for president. So I thought it might be important to review who some of those candidates may be that would be looking to represent the Republican Party

other than Donald Trump, Vivek Gramswamy and Nikki Haley. I had a chance to speak to both of them in 2023, to ask them about their political philosophies, to challenge them on some past positions. First, in hosting Fox News primetime in New York. On set, I asked Nikki Haley about some of my concerns about her leadership. Here's my conversation with Nikki Haley. Joe Biden will divide us. He'll tear us down. He'll fill us with hate for his own gain, for power. One person who is running to stop that from happening is Nikki Haley. She's the former ambassador to the UN and the governor of South Carolina. Nicky, great to have you with us this evening. Great to be with you. Why is this happening? Why do politicians insist on dividing us and

seemingly pushing us toward a race war? You know, you look inflation's running rampant. You've got wokeism in schools. You've got crime at all-time highs. You've got, you know, illegal immigrants to totally open border. You've got China on the march. And that has nothing to do with race. and the idea that he brought up white supremacy goes back to exactly what you said. It started with Obama. Now it's with Biden. The leftists inserts race into everything, into everything. And all that does is pit people against each other, and it doesn't allow us to get to any solutions.

So their answer to everything is to blame everybody else for being racist, but not them. And we see how that's played out. Nikki, I wanted to ask you this. You're running for president. And so I wanted to ask you about one of your statements from the past. I do think there are those that cynically seek to divide us based upon race. I don't think, obviously, you are one of those people. I think there are also people who readily accept a false premise too quickly.

And I was disappointed to see one of your tweets from 2020. This was during the Bubba Wallace affair when there was supposedly a noose hung in his garage at a NASCAR race. It turned out to be a hoax. And you tweeted at that time that we should all stand with Bubba Wallace today against the cowards who secretly put the noose in his garage stall. Watch your back cowards. Bubba has a bigger army than you do. That was a false story.

It was a hoax. It's been investigated. It's not true. Why did you accept it as true? Well, I thank you for asking that because I want to talk about that. You know, first of all, I'll tell you that I was partners with NASCAR. In South Carolina, I was partners with them. They were there for me when I went through, you know, the church shooting when we had a cop shooting, all of those things.

And I trusted them. So when I saw NASCAR came out with that and they should. showed all of those race car drivers behind him, I trusted them. And I trusted that they had done their homework. That clearly was not the case. But, you know, I had had a long relationship with them and I had no reason to doubt them. So you regret accepting that and trusting that institution in that moment? Absolutely. And they had never done anything false before. They're a group that always does their homework. They always are very careful and measured in everything that they do. And so I trusted friends that I had worked with for you. You know, I remember that moment. And I really

truly appreciate that answer that you gave us tonight, reflection and correction as we move forward. I remember that moment. I was on ESPN, and I took a lot of, I took a lot of slings and arrows in the modern-day American form that's being called a racist for saying, the facts don't back up the story. So what I wanted to hear from you tonight was about that moment, because you're running to be the leader of the free world. And you have to be able to stand up in that moment and accept the truth or look for the truth when everyone else is telling you a lie. And so those come in really intense moments, and we're in one of those right now. Daniel Penny and Jordan Neely, the incident on the New York City subway, is, for example,

one of those moments from last week where the world is going to tell us the lie that this is yet another example of white supremacy and another example of racism. And the truth has yet to be discovered. Where are you on this incident between Daniel Penny and Jordan Neely? This is really upsetting because here you have Alvin Bragg. I mean, he's letting murderers go. He's letting street crime happen all over New York City. And here, I'm the wife of a combat veteran.

Here you have a former military guy where it's in their blood to defend and protect. He saw danger. He was trying to protect himself and the other people on that subway. And the idea that Bragg would go and indict him this way without an investigation, without any sort of grand jury. Really what I think needs to happen, the governor needs to pardon Penny. No question about it. She needs to pardon him right away. It's the right thing to do. This is if they don't, criminals will continue to rule the streets of New York because they will know that there's no accountability for anyone who tries to stop them. And if she pardons him,

that sets a right on a lot of things. It'll put criminals on notice. And it'll let people like Penny, who really were very brave in that instance, it will let them know that we've got their back. Exactly. We need more Daniel Pennies and we don't need a disincentive for strong men or women standing up in moments of crisis. And we need leaders. And this is why I wanted to see what your answer would be to that moment from 2020. We need leaders who will stand up with strength in these moments where we are surrounded by fear. I have to go quickly, but I want to have a longer conversation with you. I hope that we have a longer conversation. But I do want to ask you this question on the way out. It's one that I think everyone needs to be.

be asked who's seeking the office that you're seeking. If you can, tell me, why do you want to be president? You know, my parents came here 50 years ago to an America that was strong and proud and full of opportunity. I want them to know that country again. I'm doing this for my husband and his military brothers and sisters. They need to know their sacrifice meant something. They need to know we love our country. I'm doing this for my daughter who just got married and I saw how hard it was for her and her husband to buy a home. And I'm doing this for my son who's a junior in college, and I see him writing papers of things he doesn't believe in, just to get an A. That's not us. That's not America. 78% of Americans right now don't think their children will have as good

a life as they did. We have to change that, and I'm determined to do it. I appreciate that. Tell your son, the A is not worth it. That's right. Tell the truth. It's true. Nikki, I've really enjoyed this conversation. I appreciate you accepting the challenges, and I hope we can talk more in the future. Thanks so much. I appreciate it. There you go. I hope you enjoyed remembering that conversation with Nikki Haley. I think as time has proven, those concerns I had then about her willingness to step up in moments of strength have not yet been adequately answered when it comes to not just issues on race, but issues of transcultural issues, the war in Ukraine, and others. Another man that I do think is consistent is Vivek Ramoswamy. But there's always been questions

swirling around. What's Vivek doing? Is he actually running for president? It doesn't look like he can win. The numbers aren't there for him in the polling. I think we're still trying to get to know to understand Vivek Gremaswami. And I think this conversation we had helped shed light on the vague. The vague, Ramehamswami. All right, man, it's always good to see you. I'm so happy to talk to you again. So you don't want 23-year-olds to vote.

You say you want to tear apart permanent Washington. Do you really want to be president? So I got to take issue with that first one. I want them to vote, my man. I do. That's the whole point. And I want Washington to go back to be. what George Washington and the founding fathers envisioned it to be, which is three branches

of government, not four. So I'm for these things, but I have a very different path to getting there than the path that led us to where we are right now, which is young people telling, you probably saw this story, now saying that they would rather hold on to TikTok than their right to vote. A majority of young people in a survey literally just said that's what they would prefer. They would keep, hold on to their social media accounts and TikTok sooner than their right to vote. The Constitution has three branches of government, not four. So I want to see these things restored, civic duty, civic pride, constitutional republic. But whatever we're doing ain't getting us there. And so I think we're going to have to think about it very differently. And that's what I'm trying

to do. Hey, man, we share that concern and we share that desire to see some level of civic engagement, some skin in the game when it comes to America. I don't know that you and I have had conversation in the past, but I'll tell you, Vivek, I've had somewhat of an evolution on my, for example, approach to the idea of a military draft. I would have been very opposed to that in the path. But I look at some of these countries where young men are forced to serve for some period of time. And one of the things I think at least breeds is this idea that you have some investment in the outcome of the country, that you're tied to that. I'm just curious, like, where would you be on that? Forced serviced, maybe from the age of 18 to,

21, whatever it may be, but just the concept of some civil service, military service, some requirement that young people give something of their life to this country. So I talked about this in my first book, Will and Woke Inc. And I didn't come out strongly in favor of it, but I was sort of where you are on the issue, which is to say that I think there's something to it. And in Singapore and in South Korea and in Israel, this model works. I think there's something about it in the American context that makes that not quite the right solution, but it gives us the idea for what the path is to the right solution. The reason I think it's not the right solution in America is at least the way we're wired is just by forcing us to do something.

We don't fall in love with that thing. Okay. So like the analogy I would give you is, you know, my parents, right, grew up in India. They had an arranged marriage. They grew to love each other. All right. And that's the arranged marriage. model is that you learn to love later. That's not the American way. There's just something about our

culture woven into who we are, even though that can be the culture in India, just as in South Korea, you may not be born with civic pride, but you better learn to love it if you're a man because you're going to serve or else they're going to put you in prison. I think there's something to it, but in the American context, Will, here's how I see it, is that we have privileges and immunities of citizenship. The 14th Amendment enumerates both of those. Okay. I think the tying duty to the privileges of citizenship is a promising American way to do this. So if we have a broader conversation, take the idea I proposed last week, but let's just take it broader and not make it an age-based thing to say that in order to fully enjoy the privileges of citizenship, you ought to have served

the country. And what's the ultimate privilege of citizenship voting, determining who the leaders are? Then you're not talking about putting somebody in jail, right? Then you're not talking about an infringement of liberty in a way that I think concerns the American intuition, even mine a little bit. But we still capture the thing that I think you and I care about, which is the revival of civic duty, to say the immunities of citizenship, the government can't knock on your door and ask to see your house without a warrant. That's an immunity. Can't muzzle you from speaking. But the privileges, look, notably, voting is not guaranteed in the Constitution. Read the entire Constitution front to back. Our founding fathers and everybody who wrote

every amendment since they knew what they were doing. They said you can't restrict the vote based on certain criteria, but there's no expressly constitutionally guaranteed right to vote because we don't live in a direct democracy. We live in a constitutional republic. And that means something. It comes with civic duties. So against that backdrop, tying the duties of trying the privileges of citizenship to duties, I think that's closer to the flame of the American way. And that in a small, very pragmatic way, if I may say so myself, but I think that in a implementable way is what I took a first step towards last week when I said that if you want to vote in this, country before the age of 25, let's start with that. Before the age of 25, then you at least

have to either have served the country or at minimum serve the country by learning something about it and pass the same civics test that we require of naturalized citizens. So you and I are on the same wavelength here, Will. I just think we think outside the usual partisan boxes to get there. You know, I give you a hard time, Vivek, but I don't hate the proposal. It's a carrot instead of a stick in terms of drawing people to civic engagement. You know, I would push back on one thing in this, I don't know how concerned I should be Vivek that young people would sooner give up their right to vote than they would give up TikTok. Because I do think if you ran some kind of poll for the American population at large, you'd be disappointed in some of the

outcomes, regardless of age demographics. If you asked, I don't know, I'm just going to hypothetically make something up. You know, people my age, you know, would you, would you rather give up a weekly alcoholic beverage or have your right to vote? We might be disappointed in the outcome of some of those poll results. So for young people, it just happens to be TikTok. I'm not sure that's unique to them is my point on how near and dear they hold that right to vote versus the alternative. But what I do think you're getting at, what I do like this idea of is, hey, you can avail yourselves of privileges that would manifest by the age of 25 if you understand the country or invest in the country. Because what we're really getting at here is not age. What we're getting at

here is understanding of the country. What I think you're asking people to do is to understand America, either by sacrificing to her some of your time or understanding who she is in a historical and philosophical context. And the truth is Vivek, I'm not sure that's, I'm just thinking abstractly with you here. We're not, we're not formulating law. I'm not sure what changes at the age of 25. I would like to see the entire citizenry more educated and more invested in America. So I'm with you, Will. I really am, actually. That's where I am in spirit. So now, this is actually the first conversation I'm having since I've rolled this, rolled the policy idea. out that gets into the depth of my journey to get there. It just turns out pragmatic. So I'm actually

with you. I'll say two things in response against the backdrop of agreement. One is I'm actually given people three paths to understand the country. One is serve the country, military or first responder police service. If not, at least learn something about the country in the form of the same civics test that immigrants have to pass to become naturalized voting citizens. business. And if not, then at least live in the country as an adult for seven years and experience it likely as a taxpayer or finding your own way to actually at least have some skin in the game as an adult in the country. So those are three different paths to experience or know something about, come to know something about the country. Now, the reason also there's a second pragmatic reason

why I first framed it this way is I don't think we can possibly be in the position of taking away the vote of somebody who voted last year or was eligible to vote last year, but is isn't this year. But what I'm starting is effectively getting to the same place, fresh with the new generation, where a 17-year-old couldn't vote last year anyway. We've already accepted that. That he can drive a car at 16, but you're not old enough to vote. Well, let's at least start with that in the sense that we're not taken away something that he was already doing. But to say to vest into it fully, you have to either have served the country or pass the civics test or wait to at least have seven years of adult experience before you vote. So I see. I think that's the logic.

But the intuition is actually really the same. One of the things they find when you're sort of proposing something that has depth and nuance, at least, I mean, years at least for me have thought that have gone into this. And Woking talks about it. I evolved it a little further a nation of victims, but now I think it's ready for presidential platform policy readiness is that still when you roll it out, it's like, you know, the headline, there's only so much space for a headline is Vivekramus probably wants to raise voting age to 25. And I don't object to that. I mean, that's part of what I said. So you've got to be able to willing to own it. but it misses the essence of what it was actually about, which is the revival of civic duty,

tie the duties of citizenship to the privileges of citizenship, do it in a way that can be pragmatically implementable, which isn't rolling something back that a 40-year-old's been doing for the last 22 years and say, oh, no, something's changed, but start fresh with the next generation where you're not taken away something that someone already had, literally. So those are some of the factors that kind of scratch beneath the surface a little bit. And with that, I understand how you arrived at the age of 25, seven years of investment in this country, which would apply to any adult. And I have one more thing there, Will, actually, is arriving at the age of 25 is I want to make as minimal changes to the status quo as possible. One of those minimal changes is, first of all,

we said the same civics test that an immigrant has to pass, so we're not making up some new test. But the second thing is all adult men, and I'm sure you and I both did it, you know, because it's on pain of criminal penalties, to have to register if you're a man in the U.S. in selective service by the age of 25 already. So that's already the 18 to 25 ban. People go through the motions and go to the BMV and not know what they're doing. That's what they're doing is they're signing up for selective service. You have to by the age of 25 anyway.

And so that created a natural connectivity to something that we already ask people to do. We're going to step aside here for a moment. Stay tuned. For a limited time at McDonald's, enjoy the tasty breakfast trio. Your choice of chicken or sausage McMuffin or McGrittles with a hash brown and a small iced coffee for five bucks plus tax. Until 11 a.m. at participating McDonald's restaurants. Price excludes flavored iced coffee and delivery. I love ravioli.

Oh, Tanta fami. Since when do you speak Italian? Since we partnered with SAP Concur, their integrated travel and expense platform and breakthrough solutions with AI gave me time back to dive into our financial future. We expand into Europe in 2027, so I'm getting ready. Well, you can predict the future?

I can predict you'll like that message. What message... Oh, hey, we all got bonuses. You can save for college now. I don't have kids. Hmm, you don't say. SAP Concurr helps your business move forward faster. Learn more at concur.com. So I asked you about permanent Washington as well. Let's spend a moment on that.

You know, I think the theme of your and my conversation today, and it's the theme of the relationship that we've built together so far is I think that, man, obviously, you're incredibly smart, and that's almost a throwaway comment. You show a level of wisdom that is uncommon and that is important. And you're a person of big ideas. The question is, when you are seeking to be a politician, have you actually entered the arena of big ideas? Can you do the things that you talk about doing? You know, this week we had the Durham report. We have talked together about the rot, the corruption, that not just exists in permanent Washington, but it exists across corporate America as well. And I just wonder what you've written extensively about in Woke Inc. I just wonder, Vivek, you know, in order to really remedy this situation,

let's just say you were president of the United States, you would have to take drastic actions. I mean, they would be massively, to put it in the business world in a complementary term, disruptive. To put it in the political terms, they would be revolutionary, Vivek. I mean, they really truly would, because you'd be talking about cutting the federal bureaucracy down a lot of fat, maybe even a lot of muscle to get back to a place where we were not corrupt. are you is it just big ideas of a can you actually do any of this so i think so will i mean i can't promise you till we get there and do it i think i'm the last best chance of actually getting it done this cycle and that's why i'm in this race i didn't imagine i was going to be running for president i do think we live in a moment where it's going to take the combination of somebody who has vision

but also can execute and see that through and one without the other isn't going to be sufficient I think that part of what limited Trump was that he was operating principally based on vengeance and grievance. And I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I think there was a time and place for recognizing the grievances of Americans that were previously unrecognized. But that limits how far you can go. I think Reagan went further than Trump. And I think the reason Reagan went further than Trump is that he did it based on first principles and moral authority with a moral mandate, two landslide elections to back him up. that allows you to go further.

And so that's why I think the being completely unapologetic, being completely unshackled with respect to the vision. One of the things I'm not doing this campaign is it's against all political advice that I'm offering the unvarnished version of my actual vision here because it says it's not practical. You're going to lose this part of the coalition. No, I'm not, is the old Thomas Sol saying is if you care about somebody, you tell them the truth.

If you care about yourself, you tell them what they want to hear. I'm giving them the truth, and I'm betting without any evidence to back it up, that that will be the winning electoral strategy. I think it will be, but I have no evidence to prove that to you. It's just my gut that tells me that is what from traveling this country, that is what people are hungry for. But then if we win, I think it's not going to be by a small margin. I think it's going to be in a landslide election because I don't spend a lot of time talking about Republicans and Democrats. I think we live in a 1776 moment. You use the word revolution.

I say this on the campaign trail all the time, two Republican audiences. It's not about Republicans and Democrats. It's about the Great Reset versus the Great Uprising, which is a 1776 question of whether citizens of this nation can be trusted to self-govern in a three-branch constitutional republic. And I think that if we get in there, then, if I'm going to win, it's going to be by a landslide in the general election. It's going to be a moral mandate. And then I think that that's our last best shot to actually do the thing and actually use the sheer principled footing, the moral foundation, the vision that guides us, the thing that we're not running from, but running to. that will absolutely get us there. And yes, probably have less than 25% of the employees of the federal government still left in the federal government by the time I'm done with it.

But it's not because it's vengeance with respect to that deep state. It's because I'm guided by this thing called the Constitution that says that that branch of government, the fourth, should have never existed in the first place. And I think when you're operating on that kind of moral foundation, you got that freight train. If we're able to get it out of the barn, that's what the primary process is all about. I don't think anything's going to stop us. And I think that having that level of uncompromising vision is part of what will actually get us there. We're not going to get to national unity through compromise. That train is long gone.

I think the one we have left is the one that gets there by being uncompromising about the actual principles that define what it means to be an American today. And you know what? I think if people are interested in the other thing, sort of compromise, let's have a boring. And some people, some people want this, right? I, you know, empathize with it to some extent. We want a boring politics. We don't want a press, just don't bring the drama, you know, keep things boring. Let's get back to where we were in the 2000s.

Let's get back to Bush era conservatism and not only Bush era conservatism, but even a tone of politics that involves compromising as a way of just getting things done. These are things that people say, and I'm not saying it disparaging them. I'm trying to give the best account of it. I'm not that person. Like, you should go for someone else. There's others to choose from. Pick one of them. I think if you want an actual, to borrow your word,

revolutionary revival of what it means to be American, of self-governance in our country, of civic pride and civic duty that we bequeath to the next generation of Americans, that's what was missing. And that's why I'm in the race. And to represent that as the youngest person ever to do this, you know, I'm the first millennial ever to run for the GOP candidacy for president.

It's kind of my responsibility to bring that for the next generation. That's the way I see it. So Vivek, I believe your words. And if the vast majority of the American people at public shared my belief in your words and gave you that moral majority, gave you that mandate and elected you against all odds, we can both recognize the reality of the odds, against all odds into the office as president of the United States, let's stick with this idea of practicality for just one moment. having witnessed what has happened to Donald Trump over the past seven, eight years,

and I had a conversation with my friend and co-host Pete Hegseth about this Vivek some months ago. In talking about the resistance within that concept of permanent Washington to anyone that seeks to change its status, would it turn its weaponry on, for example, Ron DeSantis? And I think that we are already beginning to see the answer to that question is yes. so in other words it wasn't unique to Donald Trump wouldn't you even with that mandate face that same face that same resistance and what we're talking about is investigations indictments uh the security state the intelligence apparatus if you intend to cut the federal government down to more than set cut 75% off of its weight you are going to be met with every level of corruption that has ever existed in the pursuit of self-preservation, right? Every corruption that has ever existed within the weight of the United States government coming against you, Vivek Ramaswamy. So I think that that's what anybody who's seeking this job has to be ready for. If you're taking it on with the

seriousness that I am, that Trump attempted to, I think it's part of what makes this a sacrifice, right? You have to be willing to go in eyes wide open. And look, I think it's part of the reason why Trump isn't even the same person today that he was eight years ago, right? You want to strike the swamp. The swamp will strike back. You want to drain the swamp. The swamp will drain you. And right now, I'm the guy who has fresh legs, right? I'm coming in as the new outsider, unencumbered, ready to get this done. Eight years from now, I won't be the same person I am today, just as Donald Trump isn't the same person he was eight years ago because we're human. But each of us has a role to play in driving that revival or else it isn't going to happen.

And the part I can take as a learning from that Trump experience is that they came for him. They'll come for me. But I'm not going to make it quite as easy for them as even Trump did. I think that's the last. We've got to be on irreproachable footing. They will still come. They'll make stuff up. I don't care.

But the way, you know, I don't just preach about family values or belief in God or whatever. I, you know, we, you know, I'm not being to borrow one of Trump's, I'm not being sanctimonious here. But I think that I just mean it. We live our lives according to the values that we preach. And I think that's the last best shot we can have to stand on solid moral footing. I am religious. I believe in God. I think that it's not being, you know, sometimes when you fall into the trap of believing that it is all being done by us, by me, that actually can be constraining.

I think when you open up your eyes to the truth, which is that is not being done by me, it is being done through me. is not being done by us. It is being done through us. That's liberating. And I think that if you, and maybe that's a difference in not only style, but worldview between Donald Trump and me. I think Donald Trump believed it was done by him and in some literal earthly sense it was to some extent. But I think that in the true sense of actual sort of truth like capital T truth here, it's being done through us. And I think that that's liberating. And so let them come. And we'll see what happens, but we're guided by the truth. And I think that's something that, you know, I, I don't know, Will, life. It can't just, it can't just all, this is not the aimless passage of time, right? There's more to the story. And maybe it's easy for me to come to it because we've been blessed with so much. I mean, the upbringing that I had with two parents in the house that put a focus on education

and gave me, not money, but the more important things. to be able to have the path and live the dream that I've enjoyed the two children that we brought into this world, the miracle by which, especially our both sons, but our first son, and it was a long story. I can tell you, you know, now or another, we're running out of time, another time. I don't know, these things just don't, these things don't happen randomly. And so I think God has given my family and I a life that allows us to open our eyes and see the obvious that it couldn't have been anything other than the blessing of a higher power that allows us to live the life that we do. But that goes for the struggles we've encountered too. It's just,

I'm a scientist, there's plenty of room for, not only is there plenty of room for God in science, the beauty of the natural world that we describe as it exists could not. You know, Einstein couldn't explain it without resorting to faith either in his, in his version of theories of relativity. Same goes from my version of the American life that I've experienced. I guess there's no other way to explain it. That's where I get my faith. We'll be right back with more of the Will Cain podcast. Stop. Do you know how fast you were going? I'm going to have to write you a ticket to my new movie, The Naked Gun. Lieman. Buy your tickets now. I get a free Tilly Dog. Tilly Dog, not included. The Naked Gun. Tickets on sale now. August 1st. Let me ask you the cynical political question. I think

that many are asking, so I have to ask the obvious, is, I believe your message, I believe your intent, and I believe in its purity. But are you running for something besides president? You know, Donald Trump and Ron DeSantis, I think, together right now polls somewhere north of 75 percent, meaning they're the far and away two front runners. Are you running for vice president? Are you running for a cabinet position? Are you running for something besides president? The answer is no. And I can just answer that honestly. I don't mean to be selfish about this because I do care about serving the country, but I'm an entrepreneur. You know, I haven't reported to someone for a very long time. I don't intend to ever do that

again in my life. It's not something you go into as an aspiration to do. And then that sounds a little selfish because, but I'm just telling you kind of intuitively, that doesn't seem appealing to me as the way I can have maximum impact versus continuing to build businesses, write books, you know, what I've been doing over the last three years as a parent. That's a form of leadership too. There's a lot of ways to have a positive impact on a country. I'm in this race because I see an opportunity to do for this country what Reagan did in 1980, which is to lead us out of our national identity crisis to a revival that gives a sense of national character and spirit to that next generation. I'm in this race because I believe, I wouldn't be in this race if I didn't

believe I was the best person suited to do that for the next generation of Americans, which is the one I think we all care most about if we're to have a country left for more than just another generation. You know, on the polls of it, look, I'm not some political analysts. So you guys will have better people amongst your colleagues at Fox and elsewhere than I can offer you, but I can give you a fact, which is that I'm polling right now better than Donald Trump was in June of 2015 when he came down the escalator when the same people would have said the same thing about him that somebody justifiably could say about me, we've gone from zero to tied in third place for several of the national polls in recent weeks in a matter of 10 weeks. Does that mean I'm going to succeed? No,

it doesn't. I would rather speak truth at every step and lose this election than to compromise on what I say, even if that were the winning strategy. So I guess that's something I would tell you is that I'm running for truth. And if that means that I'm not going to win the election, I would still rather continue running for truth than to run to occupy the White House. But it's certainly not to occupy some cabinet position. You know, I don't want to say that I would prefer a sharp poke in the eye to that. But because I really do want to have a maximal impact on the country in whatever way that is. So I promise you, whatever it is, I promise you we'll make whatever sacrifice need to do that. I just think for me, that would be probably through doing it through the

private sector, continuing to do what I've been doing over the last several years, then to, you know, be one of several employees, one of many employees in the federal government. Look, we share that value. It's the one that I place at the top of my professional life, and that is the pursuit of truth. I think that I could talk to you, and I hope to talk to you at greater length many more times throughout this run for president. I think the American public has a lot more to learn, not just about your ideas, because we could spend an hour on your ideas, but also you as a man. And so I've appreciated this time today, Vivek, and I can't wait until we talk again next time.

I appreciate it, my man. Thank you. There you go. I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Vivek Ramoswamy. We'll be up and running this Wednesday as I give you my top five songs and movies and moments of 2023. And we revisit my New Year's resolutions, my ambitious 20 New Year's resolutions for 2023. But for now, Merry Christmas. Listen to ad free with a Fox News podcast plus subscribe. on Apple Podcast, and Amazon Prime members.

You can listen to this show, ad-free, on the Amazon Music app. From the Fox News Podcasts Network. Hey there, it's me, Kennedy, make sure to check out my podcast. Kennedy saves the world. It is five days a week, every week. Download and listen at Fox Newspodcast.com or wherever you listen to your favorite podcast.