Will Cain Country - Ryan Holiday & Mayor Glenn "Kane" Jacobs: Stoicism In Modern America. Plus: Why Wrestling & Politics Mix.

Episode Date: December 27, 2024

Today, Will revisits some of his greatest hits from 2024. First, Will looks back on his conversation with the host of The Daily Stoic podcast and the author of the new book 'Right Thing, Right Now: Good Values. Good Character. Good Deeds,' Ryan Holiday.  Then, he circles back on a conversation with WWE Hall of Fame wrestler and Mayor of Knox County, TN, Glenn Jacobs AKA ‘Kane’ on whether or not Knoxville is the perfect American city, and why there are more parallels between wrestling and politics than you might imagine.    Tell Will what you thought about this podcast by emailing [e-mail]   Subscribe to The Will Cain Show on YouTube here: Watch The Will Cain Show!   Follow Will on Twitter: @WillCain Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hope you're having a wonderful holiday season. Welcome to the Will Kane Show. Normally streaming live every Monday through Thursday at 12 o'clock at Eastern Time at Fox News, YouTube, and Fox News Facebook. But always available on radio and on demand at Apple or on Spotify. We're revisiting some of our greatest hits from 2024. Two great conversations. this year we had were with Kane and Ryan Holiday. Kane is also known as Glenn Jacobs.

He is the mayor of Knox County, Tennessee. The one-time W.W.E. Star is now a Republican politician who, yes, he still has a flair for showmanship, but amazing amount of reason and judgment. We're going to get to that conversation coming up with Glenn Jacobs, but first, I have always been fascinated by stoicism and one of the most popular proponents. of stoicism in modern America is Ryan Holiday. I hope you enjoy this conversation with Ryan Holiday. He is the author of a new book, Right Thing Right Now, Good Values, Good Character, Good Deeds. He is a New York Times best-selling author, and he is Ryan Holiday here on The Will Cane Show.

What's up, Ryan? Not much. Thanks for having me. Glad to have you. I'm glad to have a fellow Texan. I think you might be a Texan by choice. That's fine. So was Davey Crockett. But you got here as fast as you could. Um, yeah, fellow Texan. And, you know, I would never be so bold as to proclaim myself a stoic. But, you know, Ryan, I've been fascinated by this for a while now into my adult life. And I think that my first fascination actually came through the form of fiction. It was a Tom Wolfe book, a man in full. And one of his main characters was a stoic who was in prison. And it was something attractive about that character and the way he approached, um, adversity and challenge in life that I began to get a little more interested. But I think we need to start with this.

We need to not take for granted that anybody actually knows what stoicism is, even though it's been around for thousands and thousands of years. So can you start with that? Like, what is stoicism? Yeah, I think people know the word stoic, which they think means emotionlessness or robotic or invulnerable. And maybe they don't even know there's this whole ancient philosophy built around that idea. Stoa means porch in ancient Greek.

It's originated on a porch. in the Athenian Agora by this guy named Zeno in the 4th century BC. But it becomes a philosophy not in the academic sense, but in the practical sense. So the stoic philosophers were people who did things in the real world. You have a slave like Epictetus is a stoic philosopher. Then you have Marcus Aurelius, who's the emperor of Rome, the most powerful man in the world. And they're all practicing this philosophy built around this idea that we don't control what happens, but we control how we respond to what happens, and that everything we face in life is this opportunity to practice virtue, which for them was courage and self-discipline and justice and wisdom.

So four main virtues. You laid that out, by the way, in the introduction to your new book, Right Thing Right Now. Let's go over those one more time. What are the four virtues of Stoicism? Yeah, Stoicism and Christian Kennedy have the same cardinal virtues. Cardinal, as C.S. Lewis explains, doesn't have any religious connotation. It means it comes from the Latin Cardos or Hinge, but the hinge virtues of Stoicism as well as Christianity are courage, self-discipline or temperance, justice, and wisdom. Yeah, and the new book that you've written now is focusing on the concept of justice. But before we kind of go into this and we talk about the role specifically of justice as a virtue, I want to try to

understand you. Like, what brought you to stoicism? It's popular now, and you've helped make it popular. But, I mean, I think you're in your 30s. I'm in my 40s. We all, as you pointed out, know the word stoic as sort of an adjective. But, but, and we perhaps learn in school a little bit in philosophy 101 about stoicism as well. But I don't think it had ever arrived at a, you know, a greatest hits or a popular movement. But it is a little, it is really gaining popularity now, probably not when you picked it up. So how did you get to Stoicism? Yeah, I was introduced to it while I was in college.

I wasn't studying it in school. Someone just recommended this book. They said, hey, you should read this book. And I read Marcus Aurelius' Meditations, the private thoughts of the most powerful man in the world. And what so struck me about that book was here was philosophy as a way of life. Here was philosophy that someone was applying to their job as opposed to philosophy as a job in the way that a university professor would be a philosopher. And so this idea of philosophy being something very practical, being something very applicable,

was very exciting to me. And then also the idea that it's this thousand-year tradition. I mean, one of the first things Marks Reuss does in meditations is he thanks his philosophy teacher for lending him the works of Epictetus, the philosopher that changed his life. And so this idea that for thousands of years, people have been saying, hey, you should read this. It works. This will help you with the problem that you're facing. This will help you with the grief that you're trying to get over. This will help you make sense of a world that's chaotic and overwhelming. That's what's been happening for a very long time. And it's kind of mind-blowing to think, you know, stoicism was ancient philosophy to Marcus Aurelius too. It had been around for hundreds of years. It was as distant to him as Shakespeare. is to us. So it's a very long tradition of practical, resilient people who are trying to make their way in the world turning to these ideas and then putting their own spin on them in each generation. And I feel like that's even this conversation we're having now is just a continuation of what they call the great conversation. We're doing what people have been doing with the classical

thinkers for as long as they've existed. I think, and you, The key word you use there is practicality. I think that's what appealed to me as well. It's also virtue, and I want to come back to this idea of virtue and dive into justice. We will. But practicality is key to this because philosophy for so many can feel so abstract in an act of navel gazing. But there was something inherently practical about stoicism and how you could actually make your life better starting every morning and how you approach everything. And I think because of that, it's a little bit like the ancient cel.

help guide, you know, like everything is built upon that going forward. But you bring up that the four virtues are the same, not just of Christianity, but most Western religions, Abrahamic religions. And so I think that for some people, like Buddhism, and I know you're a fan, I think, of Buddhism, and there is a commonality to all of these religions, but help me reconcile this. I think for some, they see a competition as well between some of these philosophies and their other North Star, which is their religious belief, probably for most listening, that would be, not all, but probably for most listening, that would be Christianity. Yeah, look, certainly in the ancient world, they saw some competition between these two things. There was persecution going in both directions. But, you know, St. Paul studies Stoicism.

there are interactions between the Stoics and the Christians. There's even a series that they believe that the letters are fake now. But there was, in the ancient world, an attempt to link the Stoics and the Christians between a series of letters between Seneca and St. Peter. Seneca's brother is actually in the Bible. Gallo is in the Bible. His brother changes his name when he's adopted. But the idea of Stoicism being incomprehend,

compatible with the religion, I don't think is true at all. To me, they can either compliment each other or, you know, you can choose whichever one you want. The idea is, how do you live in such a way that you are fulfilling your potential as a human being and fulfilling your obligations to your fellow human beings? I think of stoicism, one of the definitions, Marcus Reelis gives us, he says, the fruit of this life is good character and acts for the common good. That was his definition of a stoic. I don't think that's a bad definition of a Christian either. Let's take a quick break.

We'll be right back. Let's continue this conversation about stoicism with Ryan Holiday on The Will Kane Show. From the Fox News Podcasts Network. Hey there, it's me, Kennedy. Make sure to check out my podcast. Kennedy saves the world. It is five days a week, every week. Download and listen at Fox Newspodcast.com or wherever you listen to your favorite podcast.

Welcome back to the Will Kane Show. We're talking with noted stoic philosophy I've always been fascinated by. We're visiting a conversation we had with Ryan Holiday. I think not just fulfilling a good life for yourself and for your neighbor, but mostly compatible as well with fulfilling a good life for God. I mean, it is interesting that all of these verses, It says something about humanity, and it perhaps says something about ultimate truth, that these virtues are present, whether or not it's Stoicism, Confucianism, Buddhism, Judaism, or Christianity. Yeah, we noticed this in evolution.

There are different animals spread out all over the world that don't really share a common ancestor that can do the same thing. Birds and bats can both fly, right? Different animals have opposable thumbs. They evolved differently to solve something. fundamental problem of reality. And I think this is true of the philosophical traditions. So in the Eastern world, in the Western world, they're still dealing with the fact that most of what happens is outside of our control. They're still struggling with the fact that just because you can do something doesn't mean you should do something. And so as they're dealing with the fact that we're all

mortal and will die, the fact that people can be frustrating and annoying, the fact that we have conflicting desires. We have a short way of thinking short term and long term. The idea I think philosophically is that they're all trying to solve for some of the fundamental problems as well as opportunities of the human condition. And they come ultimately to very similar ideas. And to me that lends credence to them, certainly. Let's go back to you for a minute. So I want to talk to you about your rise to stardom here. So you discover Stoicism as a college student. But you know, you did a lot of different things in life. You wrote actually a lot of different kinds books. You worked in marketing, you talked about media. And then you, it seems to me, and you can

correct me if I'm wrong, your big breakthrough is the obstacle is the way. It's your first book on stoicism. And it's been a book that, I mean, just to help the audience understand, I mean, numerous professional athletes have pointed to as important in their personal development, the New England Patriots, Ryan Chaserer, who was paralyzed, the Pittsburgh Steeler linebacker, Roy McElroy, one of the greatest golfers in the world today. have all pointed to the obstacle is the way. So how did this happen for you? Like you look up now and you're a multiple time, New York Times bestseller,

and you're also huge on social media and YouTube. Like, it's got to be a little surprise that your devotion to stoicism turned into stardom. A little surprised is an understatement. When I went to my publisher in 2012 and I said, hey, I know I've just done these marketing books, but for my next project, I want to write about an obscure school of ancient philosophy. They were not excited. And although I was really passionate about it, I thought it was important, the idea that it would make its way into professional sports and politics and, you know, the armed forces, that world leaders would read it. This was an absurd pipe dream.

It wasn't what I was thinking about at all. I just knew that these ideas had worked for me and they'd worked historically. And I wanted to bring them into a new context and make them more accessible. Stoicism has lasted for 20 plus six. centuries for a good reason. And it is understandable. It's easy to communicate. We just have some new tools that, you know, the ancient Stoics wouldn't have had access to, even a podcast like this or watching on YouTube or social media. These are new ways of getting the ideas out. And I feel lucky to have been able to sort of talk to a large audience through them. But ultimately,

I understand this is the ideas and not me that's doing the lifting here. Well, you also met a moment and you met a demand, you met a need. And this isn't going to be so much of a question, but I'm just going to give you a few thoughts of mine as to what might have happened. I'm curious what you'll agree with or disagree with. But, you know, every, and this is not obviously an endorsement. This is a for better or worse situation. Every public polling shows that religion has been on the decline in America for quite some time now, decades. I do believe, Ryan, that we are inherently religious creatures. What I mean by that is we need to find something to place, some place to place our faith. And if we take faith out of our sense of purpose and our reason for

being, we don't just exercise it away from our lives. It's like a balloon that you squeeze and we find new places to apply it. And I think for many that has become politics. It's become an article of faith, politics. I think COVID became a real example of people sort of repeating mantras as follow the science and almost a religious fervor. I think a lot of things have shown that we will apply faith. We'll find a place. And if we strip religion out of it, we'll find other places to give our devotion. And maybe Stoicism as a movement is benefiting from that,

as people looking for other places to find those virtues. Also, I would add to it this, Ryan, we're at a moment in time where people feel a bit powerless, you know? And I think COVID again was a real inflection point on that, where it's like, oh my gosh, I don't have control over so many things. things in my life, and I can feel the control being stripped away, and stoicism an answer to that. As you pointed out earlier, it's like you can't control what happens to you, but can control how you react. And for me, that all created an environment ripe for Ryan Holiday and

stoicism. I think that's the environment that people have always turned to stoicism. You know, Marcus Aurelius is writing during the decline in fall of the Roman Empire. He didn't fully understand this, that he was the last of what they called the five good emperors, but he would have felt the empire slipping a little bit. He would have felt the old ways collapsing a bit. The founders turned to Stoicism. At the darkest days of Valley Forge, George Washington puts on a play about Cato called Cato. The Stoicism has always been something we've turned to, but I do think you're right. As people have turned away from the church, and also as institutions and cultural ideas have fallen away in, as our trust in these things have fallen away,

we still have the same fundamental questions of like, why am I here? What is a good person do and not do? How do I find meaning? How do I find purpose? How do I deal with this grief or pain or fear or frustration or ambition that I have? Where do I direct this? And the truth is that philosophers have been answering this question or attempting to answer this question for as long as, you know, priests have been trying to help people answer these questions. And I, again, I don't see them in conflict with each other. There is just a moment that we're in where maybe people used to would have gotten these ideas from their grandparents or from a pastor or from a school principal. And we don't really see that as the job of those people anymore. And so we're

turning to some ancient texts to help us, again, as we always have. Well, and this is the last point on that. I also, the personal appeal for me is that it is empowering. I know this about myself. Like one of the worst feelings in the world, this doesn't make me unique, but, you know, with age comes wisdom and self-diagnosis. One of the most frustrating things for me in life is a lack of control. Professionally, career-wise, in any aspect of my life is a lack of control.

And this idea, how I react is within my control, is incredibly empowering. It also is about self-focused. I was watching the horrific television show for what it's worth. I do not recommend it called Eric on Netflix. But there's several times where they quote Tolstoy. And he says, you know, everybody wants to change the world, but they never talk about changing themselves. And you have control over yourself, ultimately. And I find that empowering.

And now you've written about these virtues. and I believe right thing right now would be essentially the third installment in focusing on these virtues, where you've talked about courage, you've talked about temperance, which we could also call that discipline, and now you're talking about justice in right thing right now. This is the hardest one, by the way, to say, I have some control over justice. So let's explore politics for just one moment. Great. And I don't have a question or debate to be high with you, but it just occurred to me as you were talking. Okay, even his biggest supporters, very few of Donald Trump's fans would even say, hey, great example of a stoic. He's present.

I think he's ever present, but he's also present, meaning whatever he's feeling, whatever he's thinking is what you get. And maybe there's a level of authenticity to that. Maybe even when he's not honest, there's a level of authenticity to that. But it occurred to me, I had the opportunity Ryan this past weekend to interview him, and this was 48 hours after he was convicted in New York. and clearly when you fire off an angry tweet or truth social post you are leaning into the emotion of the moment right in which we see we see on a regular basis with Donald Trump but can I be honest with you like here we were 48 after eight hours after conviction New York I had an hour and a half with him and I kept searching right like what is the adjective I'm looking for is he peaceful

about this he's not angry he doesn't seem to be vengeful he seems to be complacent wouldn't be the word either. He just, it is what it is. At one point, he said, yeah, one of my surrogates was saying, oh, it'd be ridiculous to send me to jail. And he said, stop, stop. Don't say that. Don't beg. And maybe as I'm listening to you, I'm like, is he stoic about this entire situation right now? And I wonder if he's almost, you know, maybe he's not reverse engineered, but immediately and obviously emotional. And then moves beyond to some kind of level of stoicism. And I know you're not a fan of Donald Trump. And maybe even for these reasons that through your analysis of stoicism, or maybe through policy or politics, or I don't know what the reason. But I did have that thought

while you were talking about stoicism. Yeah, look, there's a big difference between what we might call lowercase stoicism and uppercase stoicism. So that stiff upper lip, that ability to move on, you know, when Bill Belichick would say, on the Cincinnati or whatever. There's an element of stoicism in that for sure. And I think any great performer and politician has to have to have that because it's always on to the next thing. You can't take stuff too personally. You've got to face the next. You've got to be cool and collected under pressure when you're when you're performing. So there's some of that. I think what can be missed when we look at stoicism is people want to take just the elements that might make us a bit more successful at what we do. But I think what I've

been trying to do in this virtue series is remind people, and myself included, because I was a young man who was just attracted to how stoicism could make me more, make me more resilient. I want to focus on how I can use this to be a better person, a better human being. I think that's the important thing. All right. Last couple questions. Do you see any particular politician, American politician, in your mind that embodies the virtues of stoicism? Yeah, look, he's not a policy. He's not a politician, but I think General James Mattis is one of my heroes and Secretary of Defense under Trump in the, in 2016. He's someone who would carry Marcus Aurelius with him on his deployments. He spends 40 years, you know, sort of observing and talking about this text.

So I think there are modern, modern stoics, certainly Admiral Stockdale, you're talking about a man in full. Admiral Stockdale is introduced to Epictetus and sort of uses Epictetus in the Hanaway Hilton as a prisoner of war in Vietnam. So there's been some modern Stoics, to be sure. The greatest Stoics, the simplest Stoics to talk about, of course, are the ones who are no longer with us. Well, he's focused on justice. The third installment of a series that focuses on the four virtues of Stoicism. He's written about courage, the obstacles the way.

He's written about discipline. He's not writing about justice. And the title of the book is Right Thing Right Now, Good Values, Good Character, Good Deeds. You should go pick it up. I endorse what Ryan's putting out there. I think this is a great philosophy of virtue. And it's not only not a problem, I think it's a benefit. It's a feature, not a bug, that we don't agree on everything.

And I'm a fan, man. I'm a fan of what you're doing, and I think everybody should check out Right Thing right now. Appreciate you, Ryan. I appreciate it. Thank you. Don't go anywhere coming up. Former WWE star, now Republican politician, formerly Cain, now Glenn Jacobs on the Will Cain show. It is time to take the quiz. It's five questions in less than five minutes.

We ask people on the streets of New York City to play along. Let's see how you do. Take the quiz every day at thequiz.com. Then come back here to see how you did. Thank you for taking the quiz. Welcome back to the Will Cain show. Glenn Jacobs used to be known as Cain. It's a superstar in the WW.

Now he's known as the mayor of Knox County, Tennessee. Revisiting some of our greatest moments from 2024. Here is Glenn Jacobs on the Will Cain Show. Glenn Jacobs is the mayor of Knox County, Tennessee. He is also known as Cain, a W. Hall of Famer. And he's with us now, right here on The Wheelcane Show. Mayor, great to have you on the show. Thanks for being with us. Thanks so much, well. I appreciate it. So let's just start with my theory. So I haven't lived everywhere. And of course, I'm talking to a homer, as you are the

mayor of Knox County, Tennessee, which technically encompasses something much greater than Knoxville. But my theory, Mayor, is that Knoxville, Tennessee, which I think the city is somewhere around 200,000, the county's about 500,000. So I've always been understanding that Knoxville is about 300,000 is the perfect city in America. I think cities like where I live, Dallas are too big, and you get, you know, while you get all the convenience of a great big city in an airport, and you get a lot of the problems of a big city as well. And then I grew up in a town of 30,000 people in Texas, and that's pretty small. And the truth is, while you have a great community, you're missing some things. You got to drive maybe for a restaurant or whatever it may be.

And you guys have basically the nice little Venn diagram of everything you need is there, but you still retain small town community. And to some extent, everybody knows everybody in Knoxville. I absolutely agree. But even before COVID, and we saw this migration around the country of people moving away from the big cities to the more mid-sized cities, such as us, as you said, Knoxville has about 200,000 people. The county overall has about 500,000 people.

So 6% of people actually live outside of the city limits of Knoxville. And we do have something for everyone. We have some pretty cool sections of town with the dining and entertainment. And then actually, I live out in what most people would call country still. So I do believe we have something for everyone. We may not be perfect. However, if you're looking for America, you need to come to Knox County, Tennessee, because that's what we are. What does that mean?

How are you America? I mean, by the way, there's other cities in your, in your Venn diagram. I don't know, like, I think Lubbock is a great city, not as pretty as Knoxville. Waco, there's some other cities in your, in your demographic size range, but what makes you, what makes you America? We're America because, you know, the values that have made this country great, that's what we still subscribe to. You know, individual freedom. We're business friendly. We want people to thrive, just prosper.

We also realize that that's up to you. You know, the government's job is not to just give. give people money and say everything's great because we have all these wonderful programs. It's really to help folks in the private sector achieve those things on their own. We have a great faith-based community. I really do believe that we have everything. We're really close to the Great Spoken Islands National Park as well, which gets about 14 million people a year, which is huge. So we have a lot of tourism here.

And, of course, you can't forget, we have the University of Tennessee Balls Football and Basketball who reached the Elite Eight for the first time ever this year. a lot of great things going on. Yeah. Yeah, the fake U.T. there in Knoxville, the real U.T. course, Texas. The real U.T. Go on. But I will say, I lived, there's no hiding it. You know, I will say I lived in Blunt County there just outside of Knoxville for about four or five months during COVID, and I did fall in love with it. I think you have a wonderful little corner of the country there, and I'm not just saying that because you're here. I do think it might be the perfect city in America. So what, you know, I'd love if you, if you're willing to indulge it to some extent today, I would love to talk to about WWE, but I want to talk about politics first. You know,

you're an interesting guy, you know, you're, I think throughout most of your life, you're a self-described libertarian, but even more than that, you are, you I think self-described Rothbardian, which means you've studied or appreciated Murray Rothbard, who was, again, a self-described, a narco-capitalist, which was, you know, very minimal involvement of government in everyday life. Is that the philosophy that kind of governs you as a mayor? That certainly governs my thought pattern. That's not the world we live in, obviously, so I have to navigate through that. But nevertheless, I mentioned before, we're talking about the great churches that we have here. And one of the first things I did when I came into office was I really

started talking with those folks, you know, open up communication, especially, you know, issues that they're much better positioned to help with, such as opioid and drug. epidemic and these other things that government, you know, we have limited tools. And often what happens is we have a hammer and we see everything as a nail. And so I try to think outside of the box in that I want to get other organizations involved as opposed to spending taxpayer money on stuff that is really not effective anyway. You know, say with addiction, I really believe that that is a problem of the spirit. You know, you have a hole that you're trying to fill so turn to drugs. Government can't solve that, but churches and faith certainly play a role. So one of my

major things is trying to get the private sector and the nonprofit sector much more involved than activated and figure out how we can work with them better. Let's take a quick break. Don't go anywhere, but we'll be right back with more from Kane, aka Glenn Jacobs on The Will Kane Show. Following Fox's initial donation to the Kerr County Flood Relief Fund, our generous viewers have answered the call to action across all Fox platforms and have helped raise $6.5 million. Visit go dot Fox forward slash TX flood relief to support relief and rebuilding efforts. Welcome back to the Will Kane Show. We're talking to the mayor of Knox County, Tennessee, Glenn Jacobs.

I'm curious about you and we'll bounce back and forth between your current political positions and your past, not just as a wrestler, I'm actually curious. So I have this right. You're seven foot tall, right? I'm about 6'8, but I'm pretty tall. You're 6'8. Okay, build is 7 foot. But you're from Missouri.

You know, you went to Northeast Missouri State, I believe. And I believe, and you always correct the bio if I get it wrong. You played football and basketball, which, okay, you know, a lot of wrestlers are former football players or athletes. But what really stood out to me about you, and I know Rick Flair, to some extent, and you heard probably mention, I've met The Rock. You majored in English literature, not exactly the football player's kinesiology degree. Like, there's clearly something with you that's a little six-eight athlete, but interested in Murray Rothbard and English literature. Yeah, probably because I wasn't smart enough for the physiology and kinesiology classes, actually.

But nevertheless, that actually translated very well into wrestling because wrestling is all about stories. And actually, life is really about stories as well, and that's the way they relate to people. So that degree has helped me a lot in that. I think that I understand communication, how to talk with folks, how to put things into a context that makes it compelling. You know, too often what happens is politicians, you know, we get out here and especially on the conservative side, and we'll spew statistics and numbers. People don't care about that. They want to know how these things impact their life.

And I think because of that background that I have, that I've become pretty good at doing that and adapting that to this job. Well, I love what you said about life is about stories. And that, you know, how your wrestling experience lends itself to the way you were educated and now that's lending itself to politics. You know, there's a friend of our program, Outkicks Bobby Burrack, and he's written a lot about this.

He's a big fan of wrestling. And he said, look, honestly, when you boil everything down, politics, life, kind of like what you said, wrestling is kind of the purest form of entertainment of anything else that we're doing. And like politics is a form of character development. You know, you could also argue, is there k-fabe in politics, a lot of other things, you know. So it kind of makes you wonder, A, is that a good thing that, you know, that so much of life emulates wrestling or the wrestling prepares you for, for a lot of. forms of life. You could argue it's a bad thing. I mean, I think that was the central premise or part of a big character development in idiocracy. But I think that if either way, good or bad, you would also kind of think maybe there'd be more guys like you, taking that experience

and storytelling out into a broader place of life. I don't know that it just necessarily means politics, but, you know, in life after wrestling. Well, you do see it like you talk about Dwayne, the Rock Johnson, and everything that he's done, John Sina, what he's doing in Hollywood, you know, people like Mick Foley and, and Dolf Sigler, who have their comedy shows. And also now my half-brother in Wrestling, The Undertaker, who's doing his kind of one-man show. So you do see it, I believe, in different ways. And one of the things that I'm really proud of and happy about when I look back on the wrestling industry is, you know, it used to be that we were just wrestlers, right?

We were just jocks and probably a lot of folks consider this meatheads. But now you think about people like Dwayne and people like John Sina and everything that they've done. And I think, and someone said this to me today, you know, folks now understand you have the characters, but then you also have the people behind the characters. You know, while we're wrestling, you kind of blur those lines a little bit. But, you know, now with and also with social media and the advent of all those things. and you see that the stories behind the characters are really compelling, and that's one thing at WWE has done very, very well,

is delving into the people behind the characters. And as a wrestling fan myself, it's kind of hard because we pull back the curtain now, right? And it used to be, we didn't talk about any of those things, and now we pull back the curtain so people can see that. But I think going forward, you will probably see more folks in wrestling that get into other areas because of the ability and the platform that wrestling gave them. And if we're right, it's a, I mean, a really good platform to do so. Because, A, it puts you on the public map pretty, how about this, in an underratedly big way.

I don't think people appreciate how big wrestling is. But, and then B, do you agree? I mean, like, well, wrestling is kind of the heart of all entertainment. I mean, it is a distilled, I don't want to call it. simplified, but, you know, it is, you know, baby face and heal. It's stories. It's a fight. And that's kind of, in the end, how a lot of people view the prism of the world. Yeah, it's live action Shakespeare is what it is. It's good versus evil. And one of the great blessings that I've come to realize about my career is, and I've had lots of folks tell me this. They might be going

through a hard time in their life, and they're able to escape from that. through wrestling. And as you said, it's, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's simplified, obviously, but nevertheless, it is that struggle between good versus evil, um, between overcoming, uh, or submitting to, uh, whatever challenges you're facing. Uh, so I think you're exactly right. And, and again, you know, that's, uh, that's one of the great blessings now that I realize that that form of entertainment, uh, really does add value to people's lives in ways that I, ways that I never thought that it did. But is that, if it is the essence of entertainment,

and it might be even the essence of how people see politics, Mayor, is that a good thing? Like, you know, is it as simple as good versus evil? And I think that definitely does exist in the world, right? But is that how we, is it a good thing that has become how we also view almost every element of politics, you know, those that disagree or those are on a different political party or whatever may be, we see you through the same prism? Right.

If people could see behind the scenes, you know, they'd realize that this is a team effort. Everything in WWE requires everything from the performers in the ring who are working together to put on a great performance to the camera people who are getting the right shots, to the production people who are putting all this stuff together and making a very slick package that looks great on TV. So ultimately, probably the thing we're leaving out is what goes on behind the scenes and it's all the teamwork and camaraderie that goes into it. You know, so you have those two different aspects of it.

And so much of it also. Wait, wait, wait. Are you making a parallel of politics there? Are you saying that on the surface of politics, there's a lot of fighting, but beneath the surface, it requires teamwork? No, okay. And in some cases, you know, and unfortunately, when we saw this, say, with Ronald Reagan and Tip O'Neill, you know,

who had very serious disagreements on policy, but they could still work together on some things. They can still get along, you know, behind the scenes. And there's nothing wrong with that. And, of course, nowadays, there's so much vitriol everywhere. All right, Mayor Glenn Jacobs, also known as Kane. What an awesome conversation about, I don't know if we're talking about two separate worlds. Wrestling and politics here on the Will Kane show.

Thank you so much, Mayor. Best of luck there in Knox County, Tennessee. Thanks, Will. I appreciate it. Have a good day. That's going to do it for us today. We'll be right back here with more from the greatest of the Will Kane Show before we kick off together, 2025.

Listen to ad-free with a Fox News podcast plus subscription on Apple Podcasts, and Amazon Prime members, you can listen to this show, ad-free on the Amazon music app. I'm Janice Dean. Join me every Sunday as I focus on stories of hope and people who are truly rays of sunshine in their. community and across the world. Listen and follow now at foxnewspodcast.com.