Will Cain Country - Schumer’s Shutdown Strategy Has BOMBED (ft. Douglas Murray and Miranda Devine)

Episode Date: October 2, 2025

Story 1: Can you still negotiate with your political opponents while posting memes of them wearing sombreros, while mariachi music blares in the background? That was the question posed to Vice President JD Vance in a viral clip currently circulating the internet as the government faces another day of a partial shutdown. Will explains why Vance’s justification of the memes isn’t as far-fetched as it may appear, due to some particularly unreasonable demands hidden within the legalese of the Democrat's funding plan. Story 2: British Author and Columnist at the New York Post Douglas Murray joins to discuss Great Britain’s free speech crisis and if it represents a bad omen for the US. Will and Douglass discuss the parallels between London mayor Sadiq Khan and Zohran Mamdani, whether Britons feel national pride to the extent Americans do, and how the Founding Father’s view of tolerance has been twisted beyond recognition to justify some ridiculous policy decisions.   Story 3: Author, New York Post Columnist, and Host of ‘Pod Force One,’ Miranda Devine joins to discuss a recent interview she conducted with Secretary of Commerce Howard Lutnick, during which he revealed some shocking information about his relationship with Epstein. Will and Miranda discuss everything we know about Jeffrey Epstein and his crimes so far, or perhaps more accurately, the concerning lack of information that still remains hidden from public knowledge.   Then, in Final Takes, Will reads some comments from the Willitia, responding to their thoughts on today’s show before sharing his top-secret hair routine. Will also reacts to a viral clip of former First Lady Michelle Obama complaining about her husband’s chewing habits and Elon Musk reaching a net worth of $500 Billion dollars.   Subscribe to ‘Will Cain Country’ on YouTube here: ⁠⁠Watch Will Cain Country! ⁠⁠Follow ‘Will Cain Country’ on X (@willcainshow), Instagram (@willcainshow), TikTok (@willcainshow), and Facebook (@willcainnews) Follow Will on X: ⁠⁠@WillCain Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

One, blame game for the government shutdown seems to be absolutely falling apart for Democrats, to the tune, to the soundtrack of mariachi music. Two, every time I look up, I see another video of somebody getting arrested in the UK over speech. 12,000 people arrested in one year for something they say, something they post on the internet. The West has fallen with Douglas Murray. Three, Howard Lutnik tells Miranda Devine that Jeffrey Epstein had a massage table in the middle of his home, in the middle of his living room. And why? Blackmail.

We talked to Miranda Devine. It is Will King Country on this Thursday. We hope you will. Download, rate, and subscribe to Will King Country on YouTube, Spotify, or on Apple. Jump into the show. Jump into the comments. Become a member of the Willisha. It's all falling apart, to the sound of mariachi's.

Let's get into it with story number one. If you walk into the White House briefing room, say you work for NBC, and you're waiting to hear from Caroline Levitt, what you might hear instead is something like this over the speakers. Marriachi music playing there in the White House briefing room. Why? Well, it's a bit of trolling. They are trolling Democrats over the AI-generated videos from President Donald Trump featuring House House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries. Those videos have absolutely sent mainstream media and Democrats into a connipion. The videos feature Chuck Schumer AI generated explaining why Democrats are unpopular with a Hakeem Jeffries looking on in a sombrero and a mustache. Because that caused such an uproar, after President Donald Trump posted it on Truth Social, he took two other videos where Hakeem Jeffries was making television appearances. He dressed him up once again, AI generated in a sombrero with a mariachi band, all of whom and all of the instruments played,

by President Donald Trump. And that's left the left, both the media and Democrats, asking if this is really somebody you can negotiate with. Is Donald Trump negotiating with Democrats over a government shutdown in good faith? Well, there is an answer from the vice president. You know, what message does that send? Is it helpful to post pictures of leader Jeffries and a sombrero if you're trying to have good faith talks with him? Oh, I think it's funny. The president's joking and we're having a good time. You can negotiate in good faith while also poking a little bit of fun at some of the absurdities of the Democrats' positions and even, you know, poking some fun at the absurdity of the Democrats themselves. I mean, I'll tell Hakeem Jeffries right

now, I make this solemn promise to you that if you help us reopen the government, the sombrero memes will stop. And I've talked to the president of the United States about that. Modern political negotiation. The sombrero memes will stop, says Vice President. J.D. Vance. The negotiations aren't just going poorly for Democrats in terms of public perception. It's going poorly in Democrats from the position of policy. There is a blame game going on on who's responsible for the government shutdown. Republicans have said that Democrats are shutting down the government to ensure that health care benefits go to illegal immigrants. This is a bit of a word game, a bit of a play on the side of Democrats. Senate

Minority Leader Chuck Schumer has said, that's an lie. That's an absolute lie. No one is extending health insurance to illegal immigrants, not one penny, not one dime. But Schumer's words are the lie. The lie is buried in the choice of words. Republicans aren't suggesting that Democrats are fighting for Medicare or Medicaid or health insurance go to illegal immigrants. They're concerned over health care. You see, if you show up to an emergency room, you get coverage, whether or not you're illegal or law. legal. If you show up to an emergency room, you can get treated for everything from a gunshot wound to COVID. It is a modern day clinic. And that's why wait times are incredible at an emergency room and prices are skyrocketing because the bill for that indigent care, that illegal immigrant care from the hospital gets passed on to the federal government. And the federal government passed that cost on to you, the American taxpayer, resulting in American citizens paying for the health care of illegal immigrants. This was made possible in part by an Obamacare subsidy from the federal government to hospitals covering that bill. Republicans ended that with the big, beautiful bill.

Democrats want that subsidy returned to hospitals from the federal government. And that is the crux over the fight of illegal immigrants receiving health care. But Democrats have moved from calling that an absolute and utter lie to now having to explain themselves with the facts that I just presented to you and that were even presented to Hakeem Jeffries on CNN. How they characterize it is you want to give health insurance to undocumented immigrants. I understand that's not really an accurate depiction, but what it does do is... It's a lie. It's a lie, but what you support does bring

back funding for emergency Medicaid to hospitals, some of which does pay for undocumented immigrants and people who don't have health insurance. And also, there is this provision, and it's not about undocumented immigrants. It's about people with asylum seekers and people with temporary protected status, et cetera, et cetera, but about their ability to get Medicaid. So they're non-citizens. They're not undocumented. They're not illegal. But it's a lie because I don't want to talk about that. I want to keep it on the word game that I had it on previously. They were not giving health insurance to illegal immigrants. But the word game has the same impact on Americans. And Democrats have had to face that music.

They may not want to face mariachi music, but they had to face the music of the truth when it comes to health care and illegal immigrants. And slowly the line has evolved. It has gone from calling this attack an outright lie to saying, okay, it might be happening, but not like they're describing it to a third evolution of it might be happening, but it's not that big of a deal. Here is Congressman Rokana. In terms of health care, the reality is they're just not being honest. The amount of money that actually is going towards people who are undocumented is such a small portion of the Medicaid cuts or the Affordable Care Act, if at all. And so we can argue that point, but the reality that even the vice president would acknowledge, and anyone

who looks at the numbers will acknowledge is 90 to 95 percent of the funding we're talking about is talking about funding for American citizens. So we've evolved from this being a lie to, well, it's not exactly like they're describing it, to, well, it's actually happening, but it's only happening a little bit. And the truth is, there's a fourth evolution, a fourth refrain in this song, if they're facing the music that they will soon have to acknowledge. And that is that when asked on a presidential debate stage in a Democrat primary, everyone running for president, how many of you would extend health care to undocumented immigrants in their language, in truth, in the real

music, illegal immigrants, every single Democratic candidate raised their hand. They want to extend your taxpayer dollars through the federal government, through Medicare and Medicaid subsidies, to local hospitals to ensure that health care is provided to illegal immigrants. That fourth song, not only has it happening, but it's just happening a little to it's happening and it's a good thing, is the final verse in this mariachi band. That's the final admission. That's the final truth. That's the final music.

They believe that it is good to extend your taxpayer dollars to covering the health care cost of illegal immigrants. And even if you were here today and listening from the left, I appreciate you. We appreciate you being a member of the Wallitia. Even if you're thinking that's the humanitarian thing to do, what you have to again face when it comes to the music is the incentive structure that you have built, the magnet that you have put into place that draws further illegal immigration. If you have a system in place where illegal immigrants can show up to the city of New York, get a free hotel. have government programs to ensure they can get access to everything, including health care.

You only increase the incentive for illegal immigration. And this isn't something that I'm explaining in theory. This is something that we have seen play out in real life. We had a four-year experiment under the Biden administration to see the power of open borders and incentives. And it is not simply something that exists in the microcosm, a small petri dish of the United States. It's happening across the Western world. mass migration based upon incentive and open borders in Germany, mass migration and open borders in the UK, mass migration and open borders in France. And what we have seen is cultures collapse.

What we have seen is civilizations fundamentally change. And what we have seen is ultimately the fall of the West. We're going to get into that more in just a moment with Douglas Murray. the price you pay when you allow your civilization to fall under the incentives put into place by politicians who tell you that what you're feeling, what you're seeing, how you're living is a lie. But until they face that full song, until they face that music, they'll be hearing mariachi music. And they'll also be hearing this. If you call the White House, the press secretary's office, Caroline Levitt, you'll get this message. Thank you for calling. Thank you for calling the White House comment line.

Hello, America. This is White House Press Secretary Caroline Levitt. Democrats in Congress have shut down the federal government because they care more about funding health care for illegal immigrants than they care about serving you, the American people. Until Democrats vote for the clean Republican back. continuing resolution to reopen the government. The White House is unable to answer your call or respond to your questions.

We look forward to hearing from you again very soon. And in the meantime, please know, President Trump will never stop fighting for you. Thank you, and God bless you. Yesterday, we shared this video with you out of the UK, a video that shows how far the West has fallen. This story of a government shutdown and illegal immigration In the United States is one that has played out further along the scale, further along in the storyline than here at home in America. It serves as a warning for us in America, and it serves as a real symbol of what's happened to Western civilization.

Yesterday, we played this video for you of a man in the UK being arrested for posting anti-Hamas, anti-Islam message on social media. Here's that video. Basically, Section 19 refers to spreading what we say, like racial hatred. So you've posted something online that we believe is spreading racial hatred. Twitter, Facebook. I can't explain too much. If you just to give you the context beforehand. I don't be put here in an interview.

Because I appreciate you've never been arrested before, have you? Yeah, once a twice. Once or twice. Frequent fire. I don't think you were. Basically, how it works now is then. Obviously, if you've got stuff you'd like to gather, obviously I'm more than willing to talk through what you're able to take with you.

What, you're taking me away now? Yes, so you're having arrest. So you're going to Harrogate, unfortunately. You're taking me to Harrogate in the middle of the night over a tweet? I am, unfortunately. Is this what you signed up the police to the police to do? Unfortunately, this is my role. I'm trying to be reasonable with you here.

That is just one example of 12,000 annually in the UK arrested for what you say. say. We're going to get into that. And much, much more with the incomparable. Douglas Murray next on Wilcane Country. This week on the Fox True Crime podcast, I'm joined by retired FBI special agent Stacey Perkins as she discusses the Bureau's Innocent Images Initiative and the many child predators she has helped to bring down. Listen and follow now at foxtruecrime.com. Hi, this is Dave Anthony. Today on the Fox News Rundown podcast, the race for governor in New Jersey. Holes show it's close, and it's one of just three elections being closely followed this fall. Go to Fox Newspodcast.com to listen and follow.

I'm Dana Perino. This week on Perino on politics, I am joined by Executive Vice President at Targeted Victory, Matt Gorman. Listen and follow now at Fox Newspodcast.com. Or wherever you get your favorite podcasts. Algorithms. Every day I wake up. Right now, I'm being fed another video out of the UK or from Paris showing the fundamental change, not just in the way they conduct laws, but in the way they appear. Life on the street in Paris or Birmingham. It is Wilcane Country streaming live at the Wilcane Country YouTube channel, the Fox News Facebook page, but we're always here for you

by following us at Spotify or on Apple. But if you do bookmark or subscribe us on YouTube, at Wilcane Country. Then you jump into the comment section, join the show, we'll bring you in, and we will crown you a member of the Willisha. Joe Rogan, recently on a podcast, acknowledged something that is getting some attention, does get coverage here on Wilcane Country, does get coverage on the Fox News Channel's Wilcane Show, but doesn't get enough attention in terms of the threat to Western civilization. Here is Joe Rogan. Particularly when you think about the UK, which has had more than 12,000 arrests, for very mild social media posts.

Isn't that crazy? I can't believe that. I've been watching this stuff play out. Fascinating. And the fact that our mainstream media is relatively silent on... I'm going to assume I'm somewhere trapped in that relatively word when it comes to the silence. But it's true. It's not something covered on most mainstream media.

And you can probably think of very few things that are more important, more foundational, to not just the future of the United States, but in large part, Western civilization. The man who's written a lot about Western civilization, his most recent book on democracies and death cults, is a columnist for The New York Post and The Spectator. He is Douglas Murray. What's up, Douglas? Good to be with you, Will. Well, I don't know if it's algorithm-based.

I'm becoming incredibly skeptical of the content that I am fed and that I consume, because it's really, noticeable, that it's personalized and tailored and therefore siloed. And it feeds me things. It thinks that I'm interested in based upon how long I've consumed something. And I got to tell you, Douglas, for example, my Instagram feed is full of people being arrested in the UK, the streets of Paris that look unrecognizable. Birmingham, I believe, where a man is taken into custody because he's holding an English flag. And people confronted somewhere, I think, in the Midlands of England by people in hijabs saying, you're not allowed to film me, you're not allowed to video me, you're not allowed to document the streets of the UK. And it makes

me wonder, Douglas, is somebody who was born and raised there and you know that culture and society very well? Am I being fed a bad algorithm? Am I being given a pinhole prick of what it looks like in the UK? Or is this actually representative of England? No, that is actually representative of a very significant set of things that are going on in the country of my birth. The extraordinary way in which, for instance, as you mentioned, the British police have decided or to become or have been ordered to become a kind of speech police so that, as you've covered on your show before, an Irish comedian landing back into Heathrow Airport from the U.S., would be arrested by five armed police officers for something that he had posted on X, formerly Twitter. That, that, the case of Graham Linneham,

is a relatively high-profile case. I mean, because he's a relatively high-profile person, shows like Father Ted and so on. But the daily detention, arrests, and more, of people who are not at all famous don't have any particular profile but have the right to be on the platform and find themselves opening their front door one day

to the police outside, often arresting them, sometimes handcuffing them and taking them to the station for something they've said. That gets far less attention than it should. I think it's enormously to America's credit that some prominent voice have been raising this, including up to and including the vice president, J.D. Vance.

But, you know, whenever the prime minister, Kirstama, has this stuff put to him, he always says the same banal and untrue phrase. He says, we have a long history of free speech in the UK, and we've still got that. That's absolutely rubbish. We do have a long history of free speech in the UK, but we don't really have it anymore. And why? To the point, to your point, as Rogan cited there, there's been something like 12,000 arrests for something that someone has said on social media. I also have a video, and I think that we may have this man on the Fox News channel today on the Will Cancho of a street preacher, a man preaching the gospel and the Bible on the streets of some city in the UK, confronted by police who say he has to stop, he will be issued. a warning. If he continues, he'll be giving a notice. And if that notice is given to him, he's then subject to potential arrest. And he says, what have I done? And the answer, in short,

Douglas, is you've offended people on these streets. There are people who do not feel safe, who do not like what you're having to say. He says, I'm preaching from the Bible. And their response is, yeah, but there are some who do not like it. It's essentially the heckler's veto. And that heckler now, increasingly in the UK can be someone from any walk of life, any culture, and any religion that shares different moors, different cultural practices than the ones that have been historically associated with the UK. So why? Why is this being allowed to happen in the UK? Absolutely. It's as far as I can understand it, and bear with me on this, because it's excruciating logic, but this is the logic I see of the authorities. Left-wing labor government, and in fact,

its somewhat left-wing conservative predecessors have tried to dampen down freedom of speech in the UK because they believe that it can cause unrest. What they really mean by that is that the results of mass immigration, which they have overseen, has led to a pretty culturally and religiously homogenous society being turned into something like New York.

York during the UN General Assembly meeting. And instead of having a set of mores, as you say, and cultural presumptions that existed, we have this diversity religion, which means that all of the world's problems come in because all of the world's people have come in. And so the authorities think instead of sorting out their immigration and integration system, they should go for anyone who is, as it were, disturbing the peace of that arrangement. And what that means in reality is that, as you say, a Christian street preacher of a kind that was perfectly normal when I was growing up, you would see them everywhere,

tend to ignore them. And people thought quite often they were a bit loony to use an old British term. But now such a street preacher can be objected to, usually by people of a Muslim background who will claim that somebody preaching the gospel is not a-okay. And the interesting difference that goes on there is that if anyone were to say,

excuse me, I object to people preaching the Muslim faith in public, that would be a potential breach of the peace because it would be potentially Islamophobic, it would be potentially bigoted. So there are all of these hoops that they have to go, go through. And that's why the British police spend more time policing speech now in the UK than they do policing, for instance, home burglaries or the theft of people's mobile phones

from their hands on the streets of London. If your mobile phone is stolen from your hand in London, the police will do nothing to follow up that crime. Even if you have a tracking device and you say, look, I know the second-hand phone shop that my phone is sitting in right now. The police will do nothing. But if you would post something gender-critical or critical of mass immigration, specifically of Muslim mass immigration into the UK, then the police would take an interest in that. And as far as I can see, as I say, that is the result of governments deciding to tell the police

and the police commissioners then telling their forces. to keep the peace by stopping any criticism of the status quo that they have brought to the nation. Yes, I understand the false rationale that we are simply trying to keep the peace and avoid disorderly conduct or provocations for anything on the street. But it's a lie that is, as you point out, it's a lie that is exposed when you look at the asymmetry.

One of those videos that's making its way around is a man carrying an English flag. And he's like, yes, but right down the street, I can see them they're holding a Palestinian flag. And the police response is, but they're in their designated protest area. And you are out here in the wild on the streets with your English flag. And so it's asymmetrical. It's always the person who seems to be defending traditional British culture that is the one disturbing the peace. Right, because it's the people who are defending the traditional British culture who are now deemed to be the problem. If there have been incidents in the past two years, particularly since the atrocities of October 7th,

where British people have objected to the flying of Palestinian flags all over their areas and have then been warned by the police about their objections. So as you say, you have this asymmetry where people have been calling for jihad on the streets of British cities and they have not been questioned or detained and people who have objected to those people have been arrested and detained. You have situations where people have been arrested for flying a British flag but they will not be arrested for flying a Palestinian flag or indeed even for flying a Palestinian flag or indeed even for flying terrorist flags like the groups Hamas and Hezbollah. On those occasions, the police will say that it's not in the public interest to go in and arrest people flying terrorist banners because it could cause a breach of the peace to arrest somebody doing that. And yet they think that it doesn't cause any problem to arrest the British person for putting up their own

nation's flags or questioning them about it. That's because they see the native British people as the problem, and they've been told to view them like that. Well, they are operating with blinkers or blinders on if they think it's not going to cause a problem, and that's going to be a discussion I want to have with you in a moment about the future. But before we get to the future, which will include the future of the United States, not just England, I want to ask you about the past. And the reason that I ask you about the past is to get to the core of the why. the British Empire is in a debate, probably only with the Roman Empire, as the most influential empire in the history of humanity.

The British Empire extended its tentacles across the entire globe. And as you and I have talked about in the past and you've written about, largely, overwhelmingly, not just largely, but overwhelmingly a force for good. I agree with that proposition which you have put forward. Of course, no empire is perfect, no value system is flawless. on the whole, the culture, the rules of society, the civilizational elements that the British people shared with the rest of the world from India and Pakistan to the Americas has been an massive leap forward for humanity. But some reason, it seems to me from this vantage point looking back across the pond, that's also the source of a great amount of guilt within the

UK. And I have to wonder if that's not the answer as to why. Why there is this self-immolation. Why there is this embrace of multiculturalism? Why, in short, am I the bad guy if I fly an English flag, but I'm the good guy if I fly a trans flag? Yes, I think that is, I think you put your finger on part of it, Will. This is one of the explanations for why Britain and indeed other European countries in the post-colonial era decided to take in so many people from former colonies and countries that were not former colonies, why they've decided to take in such vast populations, millions and millions of people from the third world.

It's been called semi-comically, the empire strikes back syndrome. And that's often said as if mass migration is the punishment to Britain for its empire. And it's interesting that the people who talk in those terms talk actually inadvertently of migrants being form of punishment onto the country. It's kind of fascinating that, isn't it? But yes, it seems to be that after losing her empire, Britain had a kind of conscience struggle

and a historical struggle. And that's that's perfectly healthy and well and good, except that so many people with malintent towards the country decided to push this on the country. If you look at any of the sort of popular books, for instance, that have been pushed on the reading public in recent years, things like Satnam Sangeras books, Pankaj Mishra's books, they don't seek to have a reasonable understanding of empire. These are didactic tracts attacking the British public now for the empire. It's claiming that now British people still benefit from the

the fruits of empire. And that is just divisive nonsense. But it's pushed by people with an agenda. They're not happy to watch the British public struggle with the legacy of empire. They want a struggle session of the British public with themselves then coming out on top. Man, I could go for an hour, but I'm going to go at least one more segment with Douglas Murray here on Wilcane Country. And I think hopefully everybody listening and watching can see my underlying interest is not just in the UK, but in some future that I can see not too far off in the distance for the United States. Is there pride in the UK? You've lived here in the United States long enough to understand American pride, patriotism.

Even if jingo-wistic and shallow at times, it's of real value. It's not always jingo-wistic and shallow. It's often deep and intellectual. It's always heartfelt. But there is, I think that you've seen, it's real. prevalent exist, and it is widespread. And it is for the unique experiment as the United States, the things we've done on the world stage, the things we've accomplished as a people. Is there still a pride in the UK for the British Empire? And here's the second part of that

question. When I look over to London and I see a Muslim mayor, and I see that, by the way, I think an increasing number of cities of some size in the UK. Is that a reflection of, the mass migration and the voting blocks that would support that mayor, or is that also a product of a native people who are no longer proud of who they were, a New York voter, for example, embracing a Zohra Mamdani? Is it the five, six, ten generation person living in Birmingham who is suffering from empire and white guilt who also votes for these people? It's a mixture, of course. You're right. I mean, most of the major British or English cities certainly have Muslim mayors now. And that's a reflection of several things. One of them, as you say, is a changed voter bloc.

I mean, the population of Birmingham, for instance, has changed unrecognizably in my own lifetime, completely unrecognizably. And so, yes, millions of new people coming into the country, likely to bring some of their, at least some of their racial and religious views with them. And then you have, yes, a block of voters, certainly predominantly on the left, who feel that by voting for diverse candidates, they can somehow absolve their guilt and so on. But for me, the interesting thing always is it's not just about empire, it's about everything in our past. And I believe that most British people have, like most American people, a desire to feel good and proud about the things in their past that their forebears have done for which they should be feeling pride.

That is not unearned or undeserved pride. That is rightful pride in our past. But what has been done is that people have come into the UK, they have run for elected office, and they have said that our great pride should be, for instance, in diversity. which is such a hollow but overwhelming construct as an argument. And you hear that said by, for instance, Azaramandani, as you hear it said by Sadiq Khan. They say what we should be most proud of is our diversity and our tolerance. And I mean, I think that's an aspect of what we should feel pride about in America and in Britain.

But it's by no means the religion. It shouldn't be the state religion, diversity and tolerance. And in any case, these are relatively shallow and secondary benefits of everything else. We're not diverse and tolerant in America or Britain just because our forebezz set it up exclusively to be that. That is a secondary benefit of what our forebezz did and fought for, specifically in America, the founding fathers. Tolerance was a crucial aspect of what the founding fathers managed to create in America. but it was predicated on everything else that came before it as well. And it's the same in the UK.

But it's interesting, Douglas. The forefathers of the United States valued tolerance, but I don't think they valued it by the definition we use in modern America. It didn't tolerance to the men who founded this country meant freedom and the ability. to define your life on your own. Nobody's going to interfere with your religion and nobody's going to interfere with the way you want to raise your family

and the way you want to develop a community. But it doesn't mean everyone is of equal value. Every culture, every value is not equal. I don't think anybody thought that when they founded America, and that's what it means now. It means non-judgment. Well, at least 20 years ago,

it meant non-judgment. Now it actually means judgment in reverse. It means what's happening in the UK. Your native values are actually. actually worse than the ones we are importing. Yes, take a very pertinent recent example. Congresswoman Ilan Omar gave an interview, I think, yesterday, in which she said that she created what her counterparts

in the UK also do. They create this idea that anyone who objects to their particular policies wants to have an all-white America or an all-white UK, which is just a ridiculous character or mischaracterization of their political opponents. But in on, Omar then went on to say that the idea of a white America was despicable. I think that was the exact word she used, was despicable or disgusting. Well, imagine saying that the idea of Somalia being black,

and predominantly black, is disgusting. That would be, I mean, such an odd thing to say, and it would be called out almost something. certainly is bigoted by somebody who did it. But what I don't get and what I do get it, but I mean, I'm still bewildered that everyone else puts up with it is why is it acceptable to do this this way around? Why should a country like America that was predominantly white,

majority white, be attacked for being majority white by people who come into it, whereas we would recognize it as what would we call it, maybe even colonialism? If a lot of white people, people went to Somalia and then claimed that it was a problem that there were so many black people in Somalia. I mean, why does it happen only one way around? I mean, you know, you have people like the former First Minister of Scotland who complained famously in the Scottish Parliament about how many white people were holding positions of power in Scotland. Well,

his parents came to Scotland from Pakistan. If my parents had gone to Pakistan, I think it would be a bit rich of me as a second generation immigrant to stand up, I mean, good luck with a white person getting into the Pakistani parliament. But I think it would be a bit rich if I did to stand up and complain about the number of brown-skinned Pakistanis in Pakistan. I think people would be more than rich.

So why do we, why do we in America and Britain just put up with that and continue to be demonized if we happen to be white for us in color, be demonized if we happen to be British or American for our historical past. My thing is not, why are such people doing this? They're doing this sometimes for bigoted sectarian reasons, sometimes simply for political preferment reasons. But my question always is, why do the rest of us put up with being talked about like this?

You know, I feel some obligation to talk to the audience because I'm proudly focused, not just on the United States of America, but stories that I think are important to. the middle of America. This story always fascinates me, Douglas, because I do care about Western civilization. I think you should care about the thing that has been the greatest force for good in the face of really human history. But I also care about it because it serves as a canary in the coal mine for America. You've already talked about the rhetoric and the conversation as embodied by some like Ilan Omar. We see little tiny experiments of this taking place in America familiarize yourself with Dearborn Michigan, where this is taking place. It's a little

Birmingham, England. And then now we have America's largest city going through essentially the same debate that has been had in London with Zoramam Dani. But now that we kind of can tie these two together, the UK and the United States, I do want to ask you about the future. And, you know, I made a little side comment a moment ago when I said they have blinders on or blinkers on if they don't think this will be a problem because there will be a backlash. There will be a racialist backlash. And that's not good. And there already is, to some extent, in England, right? There is a backlash. The reason that the English flag is now being seen as a sign of protest, and that is not something that we endorse, I don't think it should be seen as a sign of protest, is because it is

something that that backlash is embracing, right? There is going to be an uprising. I would think at some point of some native people who say, enough, this is wrong. And I'm going to take you up. on the terms that you have offered. And we will conduct ourselves in the same way you do. If it's going to be a battle of values in civilization and if it's going to be racialized, there will be another side to this battle. Yeah, absolutely. You mentioned Dearborn, Michigan, and it's an absolute textbook example of what happens if you bring very large numbers of people from a very different culture into your own and there's no assimilation. There was a video that went around the other day from

Michigan of a local man who said that he objected to the naming of a street after a Hezbollah terrorist. And one remembers of the council, maybe the council leader, you might remind me, said to him, we don't want you. You're not welcome here in Dearborn. You should leave. What an amazingly appalling way to behave that was. And when people like that elected representative, say things like, you're an Islamophob for objecting to Hezbollah that has killed hundreds of American service personnel. When they say you're racist or Islamophobic for being anti-Hesbullah, when people in the UK are told that they're racist and Islamophobic,

if they want to fly the English or Union flags, then, of course, you're going to create a backlash because this is deliberately incendiary, behaviour by people like that Dearborn representative. To me, it's amazing and heartening that the backlash has not been worse than it has already. I'm very impressed, actually, in the UK and the US and across Europe, the publics that have been so insulted for so long by some of the people that we've mentioned and many, many more we haven't, have not responded to it in more guttural and appalling and base terms. I think it speaks to the fact that we in America and we in the UK are

not what we are always being called. You know, the fact that we want to feel pride in our past and our forebears that we get called racist and Islamophobic for and so on. If we were that, we would have objected in racist terms a long time ago. But thank goodness we haven't. You know, it's the same thing we see in America with the characterization of the right as being filled with hate and so on. And yet you see that, you know, when as you well know, when in recent weeks a prominent conservative is murdered like Charlie Kirk was, you didn't see rioting.

You didn't see an eruption of bigotry from the right. saw prayerful gatherings and prayer meetings and vigils. You know, I wish that the people who constantly mischaracterized, not just people on the right, but the British and American people in general, would just consider that in moments like that, we really do reveal who we are, and it isn't who they say we are. It's always an incredible conversation that could go on for another half hour, and it should, and I hope that it does in the future,

with Douglas Murray. Check it out on democracies and death cults or check about it, The Spectator, or the New York Post. Always appreciate the time. Thank you, Douglas. Great to see you, Will. Take care. All right.

There he goes, Douglas Murray. It doesn't stop here. We've got much, much more. We got Miranda Devine coming up to talk to us about the newest episode of her podcast where she interviews Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnik and they get into Jeffrey Epstein. Coming up on Will King Country.

Howard Lutnik says Jeffrey Epstein was in the business of blackmail. It is Will Cain Country, Spotify, Apple, and on YouTube. You've jumped into the comments section. We're going to bring you in just a moment, Wolicia. But Miranda Devine is the host of Podforce One, and on her most recent episode, she interviewed Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnik. And she asked him about, I believe it is, his neighbor. We welcome in Miranda Devine. Hi, Miranda. Hey, Will. How are you? Good. This moment on Pod Force One,

I found incredibly interesting when you talked about Jeffrey Epstein with Howard Lutnik. Watch. The guy's gross. This was not, oh, the deep nuance of Howard Lutnik. This guy is gross. Right. So how come Bill Gates and all these other people could hang around him and not see what you saw? Or did they see it and ignore it? No, they participated. Right. That's what his MO was. You know, get a massage, get a massage.

And what happened in that massage room, I assume was on video. This guy was the greatest blackmailer ever. Blackmail people. That's how he had money. That moment, Miranda, leads me to many, many more questions. And I'm curious if you got more answers from Howard Lutnik. Here's the first question, Miranda. Who was he blackmailing?

Well, I mean, Bill Gates was the only name that we discussed. Just to back up a little bit, the context of the question was that Howard Lutnik and his wife moved in to a brownstone next door to Jeffrey Epstein in the Upper East Side. And this was before Epstein had been charged with these child sexual prostitution. prostitution offences and got that sweetheart plea deal and he sent an assistant over to knock on the door and invite them over for a cup of coffee when they just moved in and they went over to meet the new neighbour and he gave them a tour of the house and the way Lutnik tells it there was this closed off room next to the living room which was should have been a dining room and Geoffrey Epstein opened the door and there was just a massage table in there and Lutnik thought that was weird. and said, why have you got a massage table in the middle of your dining room? How many massages do you get? And he said, right in front of his wife, Epstein moved in really close to his face and kind of under his breath said, every day, but only the right type of massages. Something like that. And very sleazy and Lutnik just felt it was so inappropriate and quite disgusting. He said it was gross.

and he and his wife kind of silently decided together that they would leave very soon after that and on their way the few steps home they resolved never to see him again and and you know I thought that was a fascinating story and I said well if it was so obvious that he was so sleazy and gross why did these other high profile people hang around him and he said what he said and he also followed up by saying I asked him about videotapes and he said that he believed that any videotapes that existed would have been destroyed around the time of that sweetheart plea deal that he got in Florida and that makes sense because we don't actually know about tapes. The FBI says there aren't any sex tapes but we do know that an FBI agent

told prosecutors in that case, I think back in 2004 or five or something, that Epstein had hidden cameras all over his house to film people. So presumably there were tapes at some point, but presumably one way or the other they were gotten rid of. And Lutnik also emphasizes that he has no evidence to prove anything. I just think that everyone in Wall Street knew Jeffrey Epstein, knew his reputation. No one's better connected in Wall Street. I'm more gregarious than Howard Lucknick. So I think he's expressing a view that Wall Street shares.

You know, and it's a view that, quite honestly, isn't necessarily groundbreaking and doesn't defy all of our popular understanding. we're led to believe, we're wanted to believe that Jeffrey Epstein was simply gross. That's not to say he wasn't gross. It's just to say he wasn't simply gross. And if we are to believe he was simply gross, that can be the end of the story. The problem is he was more than simply gross. And that means there's more to the story.

And we all believe there were other individuals involved. Those individuals can be popularly described as a criminal. But again, I think that is only part of the story. Why were they being videotaped? That suggests another crime other than whatever might be taking place on those massage tables. And it's groundbreaking to hear it, I think, from Howard Lutnik. Even if he's simply offering a theory, it is a theory, again, that a lot of people share and understand. But to hear it from Howard Lutnik, I think, is a different level.

And it just makes me wonder, okay, then I want to dig. right there. What does that mean? Let's talk more about blackmail. Who was he blackmailing? How was he blackmailing? What was he blackmailing them for? I want to know about the blackmail. Yeah. And just because the FBI has not found any sex tapes, I guess doesn't mean that a crime wasn't committed. It doesn't mean that Epstein wasn't blackmailing people. Or, you know, more likely, he was holding those tapes as insurance or because he's a pervert or for whatever reason to hold over people that he might need in some time in the future if he ever got into trouble which you know he may have used the tapes if they existed to get himself that sweetheart plea deal we don't know

right but i think it's worth digging into you think that's the big story Yeah. That's the big story. It's like, what did Jeffrey Epstein get for what he had over people? First, we have to answer, who did he have something over? And then the bigger story is, what did he get for what he had over these people? Well, two things we know he got. He got a lot of money, and he also got a sweetheart plea deal. Did he get both those things through using. some sort of blackmail, some sort of insurance that he had, that he held over powerful people. We don't know. And honestly, I think it's like trying to grab it clouds. From doing the Biden research, I could see the tentacles of the CIA everywhere. And I assume that the CIA also had its tentacles into Epstein's world

because Epstein was so close to so many powerful people. Hunter Biden also was very close to powerful people around the world internationally. And fair enough, I'm not really saying it's particularly nefarious of the CIA to want to get close to people who might be able to give them information because they have access to powerful, you know, Ukrainian oligarchs or Russians or Chinese that maybe the CIA doesn't have spies there in as good a position. So that's sort of standard operating procedure. I don't think it's nefarious. Maybe the same thing happened with Epstein. And in that case, you're never going to find out because the CIA is not an open book. And I think it would be very difficult to extract that information from the CIA.

Now, you know, I'm not one who goes down the rabbit hole very much with Epstein. I know there are a lot of wild conspiracy theories out there. In my experience, these things end up being, you know, more fiction than fact. But there certainly seems to be smoke there. And if only to put the public, because, you know, if Howard Lutnik is saying it, Wall Street thinks it, there's a lot of Americans out there who think that there's a cover up. And it doesn't matter whether, you know, the FBI director, Cash Patel or Dan Magino come out and say there's nothing there. It just, that just seems to feed the beast.

So I don't know, it's a difficult position to be in. I don't think, I don't really want the DOJ to waste a lot of time on it. But I think something needs to be done more than what's been done so far. Well, I think it's pretty interesting you bring up your personal experience. in investigating Hunter Biden because I do see the parallels. At some point, that story reaches the levels of power where everything does become grabbing at a cloud because nothing is direct. Everything is tentacled relationships and they're complex. And I guess I just see that in Jeffrey Epstein as well. And this goes back to the concept of the blackmail, is that, look, the other thing we know about

Jeffrey Epstein is he just kind of walked through the world in a way that other people don't walk. through the criminal justice system. He walked through personal relationships. He walked through everything in the world that, how about this? A normal financier, and those guys walk through the world different than normal people as well, but a normal financier doesn't walk through the world. And you bring up the CIA or other, and you alluded to it, I think, with, you know, other theories where there is smoke, other intelligence agencies, foreign intelligence agencies. And the Jeffrey Epstein thing gets there pretty quick. Now, what's provable, what's not provable, what's true, what's not true.

But right there, within that concept that there was blackmail and there is at least enough smoke that he's connected to either domestic or foreign intelligence, I don't know. I agree with you on the pessimism of ever really ever getting to the truth. But I don't know that I agree that we shouldn't devote resources to it because that's a big truth. That's a really big truth. like, how active is some intelligence agency, foreign or domestic, in getting blackmailed relationships access to high levels of American power? Yes. If, I mean, if there is foreign intelligence involved, people have talked about Mossad.

I don't know of any evidence for that. And I do know that there are a lot of lies have been told about this whole Epstein story. think by kind of influences trying to get more a bigger audience, capitalising on a story that seems to have all elements that make people crazy. You know, one big lie is that Bill Barr's father hired him and had something to do with him when he was at a private school in New York as a maths teacher. Bill Barr wasn't even, he wasn't even, their time there did not overlap. So that's false, but, you know, people get ideas into their mind that will not be removed,

especially when it comes to sexual abuse of underage people. I mean, in this case, older girls, you know, teenagers, younger teenagers, maybe 16, 17. I know with the Hunter Biden thing, for instance, I had a glimpse into the complete imperviousness of some people to facts. So that people were, every time I went on a book tour, there would be people in the audience who would say, but what about the pedophilia? And I would say over and over, like I wrote in the book,

like I've written in columns, like I say all the time, there is no evidence of pedophilia on the laptop. And there were doctored images on the internet that I think were put out there maliciously around the time that we broke the story, before the 2020 election, doctored showing Hunter Biden hand in hand with a tiny little girl dressed up in makeup and so on,

and other horrible images. And I think people saw those images that were implanted in their brain and they refused to accept, you know, everybody who's looked at the laptop in depth, like Garrett Ziegler as well from Marco Polo says the same thing. There's just no evidence that Hunter Biden was a pedophile

or was ever interested in anybody other than women, his own age, or, you know, adult women, you know, well into their 20s. So I don't, I think that's a problem with the Jeffrey Epstein thing. And I hesitate to indulge that appetite. You know, but that's the trick, Miranda, isn't it? And you've done this so well throughout your history. So who might tell you? But that's the trick of how to go far enough to the truth without falling.

you know what's the famous thing to have an open mind with your brain not falling out of your skull so there's a line of pursuing the truth with yeah it's a trick and and and and and there's nothing more complicated quite honestly than the story of geoffrey epstein and i agree with you on the pedophilia thing the pedophilia thing has become sort of the end of critical thought and and it's interesting and one could ask why like i do know that in the past 48 hours for example and Antifa is calling journalists covering them in Portland pedophiles. So pedophiles become the like ultimate slur. That's how you shut down an opponent.

And that's not to say there isn't real pedophilia and we have to pursue that and all of these crimes, but we have to recognize that the accusation of pedophilia, it can't be treated as the end of the story. And quite honestly, with Jeffrey Epstein, it was, it wasn't for me. It was like, if you came up with a list of dudes that had sex with underage women, Well, guess what? The story isn't over. The why is what matters here. And look, we reported it, you know, I think very responsibly on the Fox News Channel because it was asked about in a deposition with Gleine Maxwell. Her father, you know, Robert Maxwell was clearly connected to Mossad. That seems to be a moment, an issue of historical fact and record. Yeah. So her relationship to Jeffrey Epstein. And she admits that. And her relationship with Jeffrey Epstein then comes a big source of question. And she was asked about that, again, by the DOJ. And those transcripts and audio calls were released. We played them on the Will Kane show, which she denied. She denied any connection between her father and Jeffrey Epstein and to her knowledge, any connection between Jeffrey Epstein and the Mossad. But I don't think that, I hear you. And by the way, I also hear you on the conspiracy thing. and attention-seeking and influencing.

And I think, sadly, I don't know for sure, but I think a lot of that's happening right now around the death of our friend Charlie Kirk. But I appreciate both the pedophilia and the conspiracy angle, but that means I'm keeping my brain inside of my skull. But I definitely have an open mind about things that are oddly unanswered

when it comes to Epstein. Yeah, I have a very similar attitude to you, which is you have to keep an honest open mind because there are, you know, wild and wacky and evil things in this world and we can't be oblivious to them. And I understand why people are so upset about pedophilia. There is no more heinous crime. And, you know, I mean, the thing about Hunter Biden was, if he were a pedophile, of course that would just pale into insignificance all the other crimes on the laptop. And that's what aggravated me was that people were so focused on something.

that didn't exist. They were losing sight of the actual crimes. And I think one of the reasons that people are increasingly exercised about pedophilia is they see it's the last taboo. Every other taboo has been busted down. Already we're seeing people trying to rename pedophilia as minor attracted person is a pedophile, which is so disgusting. And I think rightly, I mean, that makes me, my brain just explodes at the idea of that. We're seeing, you know, adult males pretending that they're females so that they can go into little girls' locker rooms and purve on them. And so those barriers that we built, as in taboos, to protect children from the predatory instincts of certain perverted people in our population, they're coming down.

Miranda, in our lifetime, and I think we're roughly in the same age range, in our lifetime, there will be an open public debate made by people of at least influence and perhaps public power positions in defense of pedophilia. I believe that in our lifetime, 10 years ago, 15 years ago, we had a debate over gay marriage. In a 15-year time frame, we've had a debate morph into whether or not a man can become a woman and what is the definition of a woman. And we're not that far away from the next debate. Whatever that next debate is, and I'm not even suggesting that one will be pedophilia. Maybe that will be over polygamy. I don't know what it will be.

But it will be, and it is coming soon. And I'm telling you, we're not far away from it. And then when you get to the end of that scale, as we continue to slide, there will be a public debate about the acceptability of having a sexual relationship with somebody underage. And I will tell you, within our lifetime, we will hear that argument made with seriousness. I don't know if it'll be somebody elected to office. It may be a magazine writer. It may be a television personality.

It may be a podcaster. I don't know. And I'm not, by the way, I'm not playing the, just pick some random person out there game. I'm telling you, it will be something that we're all like, can you believe they're now arguing for this? Do you disagree? I think it will happen in our lifetime.

That's certainly the trajectory, and they've already built the architecture to mount that argument with this minor attracted person's nonsense. And however, I would agree with you if Donald Trump hadn't come into office and hadn't just like slayed all these ridiculous leftist notion so easily. I mean, they've all tumbled so quickly. Who would have thought that the whole idea of, you know, swapping genders would be dispensed with and become unpopular to the point that the actress who, played Hermione Granger in Harry Potter would then start trying to backtrack. You know, I do hope that this is the pendulum swinging back from the extreme in permissiveness

that we have seen in the last sort of 15 years and that we won't go that far. But certainly, you know, if the pendulum doesn't swing back. Maybe Donald Trump, I love your optimism. on the culture shift of Donald Trump. The other option is we give our societies over to Islam, Islamism, and it'll all come to a screeching halt overnight. When the United States reflects the City Council of Dearborn, Michigan, I promise you you will not be having these debates about any of it, any of it.

But Will, that's so brilliant and interesting because they're connected. I do think, I remember years ago, I wrote a column that got me into a lot of trouble in Australia because I said, I put myself in the shoes of Taliban mothers and the choice, or, you know, Afghanistan mothers, and having the choice of having their little boy abducted and turned into a sex slave or wear a burker, I would choose wearing a burqa any day of the week. If your society gets so perverted and sick that pedophilia is being advocated, then, you know, what's going to come into that vacuum, but those sort of really morally strict religions or cultures

that people are going to say, hey, I don't like it, but it's better than the alternative. It's like our choice between Cuomo and Mamdani, you know. It's a Hobson's choice. But if your society gets so sick and the natural taboos that we built up get eroded to the point where anything goes, I think that average people just choose the lesser of two evils.

Well, you know, I saw a video, always a dangerous way to start a conversation. I saw a video from your native home of Australia of an Islamic cleric who was a reformist cleric and talking about the threats of Islamism. And he said in that video that everyone involved in Islamism votes on the left and they know why they vote on the left. They would never vote for someone with conservative ideas because in his words, I'm quoting, they have principles and can't be broken. But the left can be played for our power and they can be played into. And so it's kind of wild that this permissive societal structure, this quote unquote ideology of tolerance is the Trojan

horse for potentially, you know, either intentionally or unintentionally to your point of just a backlash, Islamism. Yes, and it's the unholy alliance. You know, queers for Palestine, queers for Hamas. It's ridiculous because obviously they're going to be the first ones off the roof if Islamism takes over. So it's unthinking, insane. But it's because the left, these radical leftists who've taken over the Democratic Party, all they care about is power

and it's the same with Islamism. As long as it suits both sides and their combination gives them more of an opportunity to seize power, they'll do it. And, you know, in Michigan, these people will vote Democrats. So the Democrats are just happy

with the illegal migrants they brought in. I mean, why are they doing that? Why are they undermining the country? They're doing it. pure and simple because their policies are on the nose with voters, so they need to rig the system one way or the other. So this is all predicated on a fascinating episode of Pod Force One. She's also the author of The Big Guy and the laptop from Hell is mentioned. You can always check her out the New York Post. But check out Miranda's show, Pod Force One. You can hear the full conversation with Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnik. Miranda, great conversation. Great to see you. Thank you.

Thanks so much, Will. All right. Before we go, before we get into quickly, a little episode of final takes. Let's go to the audience who has this to say today about some of our conversation. Joanna Morton or Johna Morton says, why would you arrest someone for flying a Palestinian flag? It's a national flag, same as Israeli and Iraqi flag. what jana i don't think anyone was suggesting that you would be arrested for flying the Palestinian flag it's the inverse that is the problem you're arrested for flying the english flag in england Duncan v says i need will's hair routine well you need my hair routine

well i'm going to give you my hair routine should i indulge this or am i supposed to laugh this off give you the seriousness my hair routine. Give it. Man, do you guys have a hair product that you love? Like, you get a hair product like a pair of jeans, and you wear those jeans until they discontinued the jeans, and then you're in a pickle, and you're like, I've got to find

a new style of gene. That's how I am with hair product, right? And so I've had some evolutions. Some evolutions, Ed. And my current, and look at two days. I mean, he's got some serious product going on, some thought in his hair. Paste. Air paste.

Here's what I got going right now. I've got I've got cream it's called softening cream and it's by axe are you being very vulnerable with the audience Ed no I found it and I'm like this is the right consistency

are you a 15 year old in 2003 the right consistency Dan the right consistency Dan wow and then I've doubled up lately because my hair's getting a little long and I hate it when it poofs out in Africa specifically at 4 o'clock on the Fox News channel.

I like the lighting here at 11 a.m. 12 p.m. on Wilcane Country. So now I'm getting a matte wax that I'm putting on top. Just to keep it down, so it's a little stiffer than it's been in the past, just because I'm trying to tame the main, you know. But I've gone through pomade. I've gone through clay. I've gone through some other kind of cream. I've not gone full gel, because I don't like my hair.

to be hard. But anyway... When you had long hair... Does that help you guys out? At ESPN, what'd you use? When I had long... I've met... It was long.

I mean, I know this is going to sound super like I'm... I've never been a big hairstyle guy. Like, meaning I don't do much. I don't, I don't... So I've never had a... I don't know. I don't know what I did back then.

For a long time. You know what else? Oh, this is part of my... This is part of my routine that I've just started. I use a brush. I now. never have used a brush in the past. I just use my hands. Like, you know, you shape it with

just your hands, and that's what I've done. But it's just too unruly now, so I've used a brush. No comb. I hope that really helps you. Well, it's the brush. It's not like a, like a brush you brush a horse with. It's got the comb fingers in it. So I hope that helps, Duncan. John Z, if you are a government official and are caught lying, you should go to jail. Pat Harding, someone should read the DIM's offer and explain it to Americans as regarding the government shutdown, both of those comments. Loco Valdez says proper diversity is helping one another not hating disagreement. Kirsch over on YouTube says the U.S. never was meant to have a state religion, but saying that means it wasn't founded on Christian secular ideas is a falsehood. That's true.

That's true. It was founded on Christian. Benjamin Franklin, I believe it was, said it best. The freedoms afforded us in the Constitution of the United States could only be there and earned and work with a population who had a culture. Honestly, in their founding vision, Christian-based culture, who self-imposed discipline and therefore could earn their own freedom. 72 Marshfalo says, this guy is saying a lot of nothing while trying to sound smart. It's all projection on his behalf. If that's a reflection or a comment directed at Douglas Murray, my suggestion is you learn how to listen because there ain't a bunch of nothing in what is said by Douglas Murray.

And finally, Greg Prince says, this guy has seen firsthand the destruction in Israel and he speaks the truth. That, I'm sure, is a reference to Douglas Murray. Let's quickly hit it now with Final Takes. That was a lame one today. First up in final, first up in final takes. Michelle Obama has a podcast, and I just want you to listen. And I'm going to ask you a question when you listen. Does she like Barack?

A lot of young people could look at that and go, I want a marriage like Michelle and Barack. Right. And it's like, well, let me, you know, let me talk about what marriage is, you know, because it's even when it looks good, even when it's great, it's hard. And so I think it's important because, you know, it's very easy to quit on a marriage. She goes on in there in that clip, we thought, complaining about the way Barack Obama choose. Really irritates her how he chews his food. And here's the deal.

It feels like they don't like each other. Now, you can complain, maybe your spouse, you know, I'm not going to do it. baby. I'm not going to list them right now. I'm not going to list the things. I know she's listening. I'm not going to do it. But there are things. Everybody has their things. I'll list it. But they're little things. Okay, go ahead. Dan.

No, I'm totally kidding. One year for one year. I'm going to walk out on this plane. Go ahead. I'm kidding. One year in a marriage, buddy. I want you to do this. No, no, no. No, the mic is yours. Go ahead. She's working from home, too. Share your complaints about your newlywed wife. Oh, she's amazing. You know.

Come on, Dan. Give us one. Give us one, Dan. Is it the way that she choose her food? Is it what? Something around, it's bedtime routines are a big thing. She has, she has, she's a little, I can't even, I can't do this. I can't do this.

I cannot do this. I'm not doing this. I made a huge mistake and I'm backtracking in the biggest way. I've made a huge mistake. You already made a mistake, by the way. You're going to go home, and she's going to be like, I hope she watches. Oh, no. I hope she watches.

I hope she listens. She's going to be, what? What is it? What is it, Dan? What is your thing? What about me bothers you so much? I guess I'm not watching the Yankee game tonight. You're married for one year, one year you've been married.

And what is it? You just can't stand. I hate this. Michelle Obama and Barack Obama seem to have a lot of complaints. My thing is, they're quirks. And I'm going to say some. it's like one of those things like is marriage hard well marriage does have to be worked on

you do have to work at it it's not it's not like how about this it's not the first six months of a relationship you know when everything is whatever you know like Disney movie stuff but for me I don't think marriage is hard

I mean I'm not trying to butter up you're married the right person I don't think it's hard that I know I'm married the right person but that's why it's easy I think there are there are things. And I'll tell her to her face tonight. I'm just not going to tell it to

America. But it doesn't make the relationship hard. Like, I agree. I remember growing up sitting at the breakfast table. The way my brother ate his cereal made my skin crawl. To hear him slurp

his cereal on his thing, I wanted to punch him so bad. And I'll bet you he felt the same way about me and that's how you feel in that relationship. But in your marriage, I never feel that way even with the things, whatever the things are that we're going to talk about later tonight. Those things don't feel that way, but they do for Michelle. And what do I know? I've not been around their relationship, but I'm just saying there's a lot of podcast time spent listening, complaining about Barack.

A few other stories here quickly. In final take, I'm going to give away to two essays, Dan. Elon Musk becomes the first person that hit $500 billion in net worth on Wednesday night. It dropped down a little bit, but he hit $500 billion. What do you think about that? You know, I said in our lifetime, and I mean that, by the way, that we're going to have this pedophilia debate. And when I say that, meaning there's going to be somebody on the other side going, well, actually, there will be, there will be that. We just had the article in the U.K. from the National Health Services advocating cousin marriage.

so we're going the benefits of cousin marriage like we're going to have this in our lifetime we're also going to have a trillionaire in our lifetime right and it's probably not very far away MBS like I don't know if it's Elon or who it is well there's like the Saudi family is worth a trillion that's a family I know so yeah I mean um you you know like we will have a trillion we talk about this it's harder to go from a thousand to 10,000 subscribers and it is to go from 10,000 to 50,000 and that's harder than going from 50 to 100,000. It compounds. That's what Warren Buffett is called the Eighth Wonder of the World, compound interest.

That leap from $500 million to a trillion, I'm best going to happen pretty quick. I don't know what it will be, or when it would be. The next tech. Place your bets now. If I give you Elon or the field, here's the prop bet, first world's trillionaire. Elon or the field? What do you take? I'm taking the field because I feel like Elon's going to do something to shoot himself in the foot

at some point and he's going to lose a lot of money. I just have this feeling. Well, Ed says Elon. Here's the thing about why I might take the field is disruption is always unpredictable. And I'm not, you placed it on Elon because you're a lefty and you don't like him. But I'm not placing it on Elon. I'm placing it on the rate of innovation and innovation predicated upon destruction. And Elon's at the front of all of it, so he's going to see it.

But, I mean, we're in the middle of Google being disrupted. We're in the middle of Facebook being disrupted. These things seem permanent, and they're not. And it happens with increasing frequency. So whatever that next thing is, maybe it's something in AI, I don't know, Sam Altman, whoever ends up dominating it, you know, he gets to a trillion. So I'm going to take the field. All right, I think that's going to do it for us today on Final Takes.

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