Will Cain Country - The Cornell 7: Did the Mob Decide Before the Facts? (ft. Vince August & Lawrence Jones)

Episode Date: October 1, 2026

The viral case of the “Cornell 7” likely won’t even make it to trial, but that hasn’t stopped the court of public opinion from delivering a scathing guilty verdict. A brief look at the evidence, however, points to a completely different story. ‘FOX & Friends’ co-host Lawrence Jones and former judge and comedian Vince August join Will to break down what happens when mass internet hysteria meets the courtroom, and examine the newly unveiled text messages that tear a glaring hole in Jane Doe’s claims.Subscribe to ‘Will Cain Country’ on YouTube here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Watch Will Cain Country!⁠⁠⁠⁠Follow ‘Will Cain Country’ on X (⁠⁠⁠⁠@willcainshow⁠⁠⁠⁠), Instagram (⁠⁠⁠⁠@willcainshow⁠⁠⁠⁠), TikTok (⁠⁠⁠⁠@willcainshow⁠⁠⁠⁠), and Facebook (⁠⁠⁠⁠@WillCainNews⁠)Follow Will on X: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@WillCain⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

A 407, a seven-hour seven-person gang rape largely left unpunished by the university and the district attorney. Or a regrettable orgy filled with guilt that is turned into an online mob justice, lesson that we already learned. about sacrificing the innocent for the virtue online for the many. Lawrence Jones and Vince August today on Wilcane Country. Main Country streaming live at the Will Cain Country YouTube channel, the Wilcane Facebook page. Always here. Just hit follow at Spotify or on Apple.

Vince August is a comedian, former judge, attorney, and Lawrence Jones is the co-host of Fox and Friends, and I'm really excited to have them both here today on Willcane Country. What is up, fellas? What's happening, Lawrence? Good to meet you, brother. Pleasure, pleasure. Will got suspended yesterday. Excessive celebration, like a Texas Longhorn. He made a good point on a podcast and apparently just started whipping things out ceremoniously and he lost a day.

It's not not the context or the topic today to talk about whipping things out. It's really an opportunity. Breathe the room. Read the room, Vince. Read the room. You read the room. You read the room. Comedian.

I was really, really embarrassed by that, to be honest. I texted with some of my buddies, and I'm like, and I had people online going, Will, call them out, call them out. For anybody that doesn't know what we're talking about, the Texas Longhorns beat the Tennessee volunteers. But in the process, not one, but at least two really regrettable celebrations. Colin Simmons, who's an incredible player and proceeded to have five and a half. Sacks in that ballgame on sack number three got up and Panamimed unzipping his pants whipping out his gong and peeing all over the field.

And then Relique Brown after a touchdown, panamimed smelling his nether regions, pulling his hand up to his face and fainting. I mean, look at Lawrence. We're all smiling because it's hard not to say those things without like smiling a little bit. But it's so gross. It's so regrettable. It honestly, it's so thuggish. It's so Miami, 1993. It's not who I want us to be is the Texas Longhorns.

It's just bad. I mean, is it college hyped up guys being college hyped up guys? You can't do that better? Like, come on. There's a lot. What's wrong? Seriously, Lawrence, you had no problem with this stuff from Texas? I mean, I like to be a Texas gentleman, but when you go into the arena, look, it's great.

Be a great role model. Perhaps. Right. I also don't think kids should be looking to these people to be role models. But Lawrence, it's also like so stupid, so selfish. That I hate. That I hate. Because it's not a mystery.

The minute Colin Simmons did the first one, I started yelling at my TV. I was like, careful Colin, careful calling, no calling. I literally was yelling. I knew what would happen. He forced him with that sack into fourth and 23. And now it's a first in 10. Like, it's a 30, I think it was a 30-yard field position difference. Yeah.

Yeah, so selfish. That pissed me off more. Yeah, it could cost you the game type stuff. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah, I agree with that. All right. Fine. It's all riled up. Compromise. Okay. So we're just now getting riled up. Okay. Dan, you're part of this conversation too. All right. Let's start with this. Lawrence, I texted the other day. You did an incredible job. I'm just going to throw those flowers at you here as well. I thought your interview with the prosecutor around Cornell. I thought it was really good. And let me tell you what was good about it. It was enlightening. Okay. You weren't looking for your own moment. You weren't looking to get a viral clip.

You weren't looking to get your own virtue communicated to the audience. You were getting information. And it was important information. And that was so good. And you were critical. And I'm hard on myself and I have been lately. The key, I think, to doing things well is being present and listening, not having a script. And you were listening.

And you were following up. And it just, it all made sense in the service of getting more information. And so I'm telling you that because here we are on this Cornell 7 case. And I want to do this the four of us together. I don't want to give a monologue to get all the information out. I don't want to give a monologue to express to you my virtue or my pursuit of the truth. I want us to kind of vet this information out together because what I am, we all come at this from a different lens. And I can't explain why this is my lens, but I'm going to be honest about my lens up front, okay?

my lens is that I have always for some reason had a natural aversion to mob justice okay if I see like a crowd of people picking up pitchforks my instinct is like whoa whoa whoa what's going on here like it all is virtual now right and I do believe that most of the time mob justice is wrong like 90% of the time when I say most I don't mean 51 like 90% of time it's wrong and it's sacrificed not wrong just like as a process, but gets it wrong and sacrifices innocent people. Okay? So that puts us into this Cornell 7 case. And here I am doing this monologue, but Dan has perspective and lens, and maybe you do, Vince, I don't know, because sometimes you throw me curveballs, but like, and I totally get this. People that might come at this through the lens of I've experienced something like this.

I know someone who's experienced something like this. and it's hard for them to divorce themselves from that lens. Do you see what I'm saying? That's right. And what I think we have to do, now I'm pissed. And we'll get to why I'm pissed. I've got to a conclusion. I'm getting to a conclusion.

Is that nobody knows the facts. My algorithm on Instagram, because I wanted to play this, all these people, and it's no coincidence, a lot of them of the same people that were the truth seekers in the Lindsay Clancy trial, right? meaning Patrick did it type shit. There are a lot of the same people now. If you haven't seen this stuff on TikTok or Instagram, what they're doing to these boys and not just these boys. Now they're families. Like all over.

It's all over the place. Doxing, pointing to mob justice at moms of these boys and parents of these boys. It is beyond grotesque to me. And none of the videos give you facts. maybe a snippet here or there. So what I think I would love for us to do is interweave what the information we know, the four of us together, with our opinions and our analysis as we go. But I don't think anybody has a good picture of what actually happened at Cornell. So let's just start. I'll let each of you kind of give your initial take here on this case. I'll jump in from what my perspective is. And, you know, I did this yesterday. I'm going to come in with complete candor. One, you know, I worked for the New York Attorney General's office as a prosecutor, although it was in, you know, a different division. It was in antitrust. So I've sat in that seat. I was and am again now a criminal defense attorney.

I actually one sat second chair in a first-degree sexual assault case as a defense attorney. A second time, I was first chair in defending a sexual assault case. And I also spent six years sitting as a judge in a criminal court. So I've sat in every chair in that courtroom. So my perspective is and always will be until I have the whole story, I'm not reaching a conclusion. I will analyze what I do know. I will analyze the facts that are out there. But to reach a conclusion until I know everything, I tell everybody, don't rush to be first.

Be right. Don't be first. Okay, now we're going to Lawrence. The challenge is, I think that we're doing something. I hope it meets an audience. I'm afraid there is an audience, the primary eyes, isn't where you are, Vince. That's where I am, too. Oh, I agree.

Meaning they don't actually care about the truth. I agree. Like what we do today may meet deaf airs because nobody actually gives a shit about the facts. Go ahead, Lawrence. So this is where I disagree with what I did, brother. the evidence thus far that is out there. And there has been a process already suggests that this doesn't even make it to court, right?

And what I discovered also is through their investigation now because of public pressure. And this is why this is the part that outrages me. And Will, you may have solved this in the, the interview that I did with the DA, he knows that there's not enough evidence to support the going to court. And then he wants to throw it to the grand jury, which we, all of us here, know how the grand jury process works. And so to alleviate the political pressure, not the legal pressure, right, because that is clear here right now. He wants to throw it to the grand jury to put

on them. And I'm worried that a grand jury process is going to convict these guys, like much of their employers have already done. And that's just that you can't, you can't have a system of justice work that way. And well, I don't know if you saw, but the new text messages just came out this morning, right? I do have them. I have them right here. Yes. Okay. And one thing I want you to say, the alleged victim here, not once does she say to the person that you're rating me. She talks about the shame that she feels, which I understand. 100%. Our dear brother, Daniel, may say a lot of victims feel shame.

But she never tells her friend that you rape me. I'm hurting here. She says, how are people on campus going to perceive me, which falls consistent with. what we saw the, you know, through the investigation. She's ashamed of what happened, which we could all say that those guys did something terrible.

Right? We don't want our sons to be conducted themselves that way. We don't want our daughters to be treated that way. That is a public way of dealing with things. But that doesn't mean that these guys committed a crime. And that's where I'm at, Will. Totally.

Okay, I'm with you. And we're going to have this Vince, I started where you were. I'm talking about two days ago. Two days ago, it was, man, regardless of what happened, this is disgusting. And like you said, Lawrence, I'm not called my son. I got a son who's a freshman in college and said, listen. But the hard thing about that conversation is we live in a world where allegation is everything. So this is a civil allegation.

This is a complaint that she's made to sue people. So it's about as one-sided as you could possibly go. get. And that's been taken as gospel. That's why they're fired. That's why there's an online mob. And, you know, I don't even know what to tell my son. Like, never be in a position. This isn't about, let me make one thing clear. This is another thing that makes me mad. For the people online, okay, celebrities, Mariska Hardigay, Josh Gad, the South Park guy, this is what they're doing. They're climbing to the top of a mountain. And they are staking out a position. And that position is as follows. I am incredibly opposed to seven-hour seven-person

gang rapes. And within that, they believe somehow they are uniquely moral. And they have said something that adds to the conversation as though there are people out there who would go, I'm going to take the opposite of that debate. There's nobody that is pro seven-hour seven-person gang rape. Nobody. You're not special. You're not moral. You're not virtuous by staking out this position. The only question is, was there a seven-hour, seven-person gang rape? That's it. That's the only question. And so, you know, as the two days of past, Vince, I'm with Lawrence. I now, I can't with 100 percent certainty, so I'm not 100, but I'm probably in the 80-90 range. this girl, the evidence leads us right now to, had a debauchress, so did the boys, drug-fueled orgy, regretted it,

then started to suffer reputational damage on campus at Cornell and decided this was the way to either, on this part I don't know, redeem her reputation or absolve herself of her own guilt over this affair, one of the other, but the evidence does not, in any way, lead us towards rape. Look, there's two things that you threw up me there. The first one I'm going to deal with is what is this mob mentality that's coming out of Hollywood. And what seems to be really predominant, especially on the left, which is what you said, Will, you take a high moral ground. Okay. And the high moral ground is I'm against, rape and I'm a good person because I'm against rape and these people should be punished.

Now the problem with that argument is, the second, the argument falls apart under a fact circumstance that will possibly make this all crumble, what that does is, is now you're no longer the better person. It attacks you and what it does is it attacks them in their moral standing. See, if they're wrong, somehow now the person like you in this circumstance is the better person. You're of higher moral standing. And that's the problem with a lot of these positions that these people take. It's not based on facts. It's not based on circumstances. It's based on this. I'm a good person because I'm against this. And if this thing, for whatever reason, is not that, somehow it affects me and my moral character.

So let's put that there. The second part of the argument with regards to this case and the civil part of this case that if the civil part moves forward first, Will, don't forget, it's a civil case. She's going to be deposed. She can't, this is not a criminal case where the victim you can put forward, you know, different type of evidence. And maybe she doesn't have to take this. only time you're going to get a crack at her is when she's on the stand.

In a civil case, you're going to have possibly seven attorneys. I don't know if the university is involved as well that are going to throw eight different attorneys at her that are going to question her with regards to her recollection. I'm going to add nine. I think she sued the sorority as well. Right. So now we're nine. Okay.

And you're talking about what are going to be nine, most likely very savvy attorneys, okay, that are going to question what she's. she said in, what was it, 2024 versus this civil complaint today and the inconsistencies. And Will, I've seen it. Again, I've tried these cases. I've seen it. They crumble quickly. And the people that are taking this high moral ground are still going to stay on that high moral ground.

Because again, remember with the high moral ground is what you just said. Gang rape is wrong. So many angles, but always in pursuit of the truth. What happened with the Cornell 7? Let's continue with Vince August and Lawrence Jones when we come back on Wheel Can Country. It's such a cheap hill to climb. I saw it at ESPN. Man, ESPN, it used to be like, I used to watch these commentators climb to the top of mountain.

It's bad to hit women after Ray Rise or whatever. And then if you question, let's make sure we have the facts that happened. You know, it's like, oh, you're pro-hitting women? Nobody's pro. Nobody. Nobody's pro-rape. You're not special. You're not moral because you said you're anti-rape.

And that's what, maybe you're giving me the reason why they don't care about the facts. There's also another reason. I'm less concerned about the celebrities. And I know this is a cheap take. This is a cheap take as well. I think they're monetizing it. Like, I'm more concerned about the TikTokers because they're super influential. I mean, I'm talking millions of views, millions of views.

And we saw it with Lindsay Clancy. We saw them say Patrick was to give. We saw all these things, and it's the same thing here. I'm most pissed at these mommy bloggers. Dan, I didn't even look at what elements she brought in. But, like, I started to dive in like this, Colleen, whatever. This is a person with hundreds of thousands of followers just doing horrific things on the internet. And I'm more concerned with those people and the people they're destroying.

And the conversations I've had, like you said before, with women close to me and a few of them have been were sexually assaulted in college. And they take the stance where this happens all the time and there needs to be more awareness. So they're using this as an opportunity to say this happens and it needs to be spoken out and women need to be listened to. And they won't listen to anything else that doesn't fit that kind of narrative that they want to push through. Like saying, hey, maybe we should look at all the facts.

It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Because they were involved in it. They should go down just like if they were the. perpetrators themselves. So have these conversations just very hard and I've tried to kind of say what you guys were saying and it just doesn't get through at all because if you defend at all, you are completely pro-rape. You're pro right. Exactly. And you have to be one of the other. You're not a good person. You're not a good person. It's extremely problem-making and will forgive me

because I'm sure I'm jumping on people. I'm not- I know. if it's just because I've had a sudden awareness to this, but it seems to me, and I don't know if it's TikTok, as you alluded to, or all the Netflix documentaries, but every case, it seems, that gets national attention has become a cause. Everything is a cause. And people try to identify themselves with every case. And I think that is very, very problematic. I mean, let me give the example. Let's step away from this case. But so many women allegedly got along, you know, the train for Lindsey Clancy is because they said that they had postpartum depression. But that was not her allegation. That wasn't her defense. Her defense was postpartum psychosis, which it's less than

one percent of people that have ever experienced that. And so women were going along with a cause that she was saying, she wasn't saying that she had that. And so all these people identify. Lawrence, here's another one. Yeah, go. I think it's the same thing that happens in race cases, to be honest. Because this is very similar to Nolan Wells or, or, um, I can do it. I can do it. Carmelow Anthony. Carmelow Anthony.

Yes. And any of them, any of them from 15 to 20 or 12 to 20, because I, this is, I experienced this most notably at ESPN, you know, the conclusion starts with, you know, this racial thing happened, whatever it is, right? And if you question, well, let's make sure the facts fit what you're saying, oh, you're racist. Like, oh, you're pro rapist. And it's like so many people. And, you know, I remember the conversation.

This was around George Floyd. I had it with a former professional football player, a well-known commentator. This was offline on a phone call. And it was like, well, you don't understand how many people this has happened to. Well, I can't tell you. And I'm not, I wouldn't tell you, you've never experienced racism. That's not what I would argue. Or I can't tell, Dan, any of your friends, they didn't experience sexual assault.

I don't know the facts in all those things. But all I can do is look at the facts in this case. You're not in this case. Your experience with racism isn't in this case. You are not in this case. Right. I said this to you two weeks ago. Yes.

I said this to you two weeks ago after the Clancy verdict, I said, on to the next case. and they were sitting waiting to inject themselves into the next case and this is I mean what do we talk about again I have to be a character in whatever the story is as opposed to let me sit back and let me learn something and in this case as in most cases you're going to learn something and listen again the high moral ground is we want to learn that rape is bad nobody wants to hear we want to learn we want to learn that people bring these allegations which are unfounded and ruin people's lives.

And we see this happen in civil, look, it's behind me right now. All my case, this is every day where people bring civil suits in courts, they make allegations. And just because an allegation is out there, it doesn't mean it's been proven. You gotta go through the court system. There's discovery, there's evidentiary findings, there's most, and people immediately again, I have to tie myself to this. I'm going to take a stand. I'm going to plant my flag.

This is my flag. And it makes me a better person. And the outrage, if there isn't a criminally prosecution, if they're not criminally prosecuted, will be huge too, right? It can get away with everything. Well, they already haven't. They already haven't. I know.

But I'm not sure it makes it civil either. I went through that 102 page complaint. Yeah. It was terrible. It was terrible. Like, forget discovery, forget the interrogities, going and questioning people. I'm not sure that that, there are so many conflicts in that document will that I'm not sure it even makes it across that line.

I think the damaging thing here is that people should be honest. Yeah, go for it. Yeah. Let's do it. Dan, you've got a lot of the texts that you can show up for the. audience. I'm going to try. Lawrence, you know a lot about it. Vince, you did this yesterday. So feel free to interject if I missed something.

Okay. Let's give an overview. All right. So, Jane Doe, and people have tried to docks her online. I have seen that. I think that's gross as well because I have no idea if that's real. Well, this may be controversial, Vince.

If their names get to be out there, her name should be out there. But that doesn't tell me that the internet is right about who it's pointing me The internet's pointing to certain people, and I don't have any idea. There's a lot of women saying I'm Jane Doe as like solidarity too, by the way. Yeah, because now, right, Dan, we're seeing that all over the place. Now, everyone's posting I'm Jane Doe.

It's dangerous, man. Okay, so I'm going to reference her as Jane Doe. And I'm also going to not reference the dudes names for a multitude of reasons because I don't think that's right to do. Secondary, once. Lawrence, you may have read the full police report, but I'm not sure male one, male two is assigned to, identities. Is it a sign so did I would know who was what who was male one, who was male two in the documents? It doesn't tell you though. Yeah, I didn't, I didn't pick that up. Right. Yeah. Okay. You know what's why that's important? It's being called the Cornell 7.

From what I can ascertain, three, according to the statements, didn't even touch her. So three aren't even, aren't even in it at all. They went into the room. That's right. Okay. So Jane Doe, follow along and don't be afraid to interject. Purportedly drinks 10 drinks, I believe, at the sorority house, and then goes to a bar and has more drinks. Then she decides to go to the Kai-5 fraternity house as invited by Male 1. We'll call him Male 1, who she kind of liked, it seems like.

she describes herself as intoxicated as a five or six on the 10 scale at this point, which is shocking, by the way. If you've had 10, 12 drinks, I can't believe you would call yourself five or six. But that's what she said. Really important, Will, really important, well, self-induced intoxication. Right. Self-induced. Yep.

That's critical. That's critical. Gets to the fraternity. Critical. Gets to the fraternity house, starts dancing with male one, as described. flirty, he says, and she wants to hook up, and he proposes a threesome. And she says, this is according to the police statement. Now, this is where I want to interject. She also gave a statement to the campus police. Campus police, she says a lot of the same things she said in the police report,

but she says, I'm 100% certain I was raped. She says she, and she describes it as the second part of what I'm going to tell you about happened. But she also says, I was kind of out of it. I don't remember well, but I'm 100% certain that I was raped. Now, the trick here is a campus police report is not of equal value to a police statement. They're not of equal value. One is given under penalty of perjury. One is not. Okay?

So the police report carries more weight under penalty of perjury. So in the police report, she says she goes up. She has a threesome with male one and male two. I'm going to get confused, actually, because it gets confusing. but I have a guy that I'm going to pull this guy up. He describes it pretty well from the police report. All right. So this is her first threesome, male one and male two.

They go up, male one, they have sex, the three of them. The male one at some point kind of passes out. He's too drunk. Can't continue. Male three comes in. It's male three's room. and he participated in a second threesome. So male two and male three now have a second threesome.

He steps in for male one. She was on ketamine. She'd already done ketamine up in the room with the first threesome. And she says in the police statement, the second threesome and the first one are consensual. At one point she says she's into it. Another she says she's okay with it. Male four comes in. Um, mail for, uh, okay, this is where it gets gross. You can put this up, Dan.

The dudes put on their Snapchat free P, okay? And there's other comments like, you can come in and, and whip it out. Bad stuff. This is like a, um, I don't think it's a pledge class. It's an active. Yeah, it says kaifi active. So it's to the dudes and the fraternity. I don't know how many are on that. The suggestion is there's 57 because they're going after now they're, now they're not going after the Cornell 7. The TikTokers and Instagrammers are going after all 57 dudes in the fraternity. Male 4, 5, and 6 come in and they all do ketamine again. Now they do it off of male 2's, not they, she does it off of male 2's erect penis. Male 3, though, says, get out of my room, kicks them all out of my room.

They go to another room, and male 1 in 4, male 1 is the one she was originally super into, purportedly have sex with her. So it's a third threesome now. Male 1 and 4 have sex with her in this next room. Male 5 and 6 did absolutely nothing. They stepped into the room, right? They may have done drugs. Oh, they did do drugs off of her body.

male four had said can we do ketamine off of your body she said yes so my male five and six do drugs off her body then they leave they're not involved in any sexual activity male seven tried to kiss her she said no i'm not into you um or something like that he was also purportedly rude said rude things and so when she said no he stopped then he's out of the picture so three threesomes male one and two males two and three, males one and four. Okay? That's according to the police statement, what happened that night. Then we can go into the texts. Again, guys, interrupt me if you think that I'm missing something here. I'm going to just give you pushback on one thing. Let me just give you pushback on one thing. Yeah, go ahead. With regards to the campus statement and the police statement, just from, again, not knowing if the campus statement, I don't know, whether she writes it or whether she's given it to someone and they take it down. And the same thing with the police statement.

Is it she's writing it and they transcribe it? Or is it that she's given the story and it's someone else doing the note taking on it? Because either way, if the campus statement is done during the course of ordinary business, it will be given the same weight by an attorney with regards to it being a contemporary statement, and it depends. Again, who wrote it? Whose handwriting is it? Is it her handwritten statement versus her telling the story and someone else transcribing it?

So that's the only thing I would say there. I don't know the answer to those questions. The prosecutor says when it comes to his statement that she gave, she made 20 corrections to it. She went through it hand by hand multiple times and made 20. So she was what the the prosecutor's statement, which in the end says everything was consensual. Yep. She poured over it with a fine tooth comb and made 20 corrections to it. That's huge.

And then the conversation was that she was under stress and under trauma in her first statement. That's what these women are saying. It was the shame. So she said things that she didn't really mean to. say. That's what they're saying why she is correcting her statement now these years later.

Well, it's... Yeah, I know that's what they say. Yeah, but also, look, look, I'll be fair here. And Daniel may speak to this. It is common for victims. Who's Daniel? Dan? Dan. Dan.

Either way it's fine. Events. I'm sorry. I'm sorry about that. That's right. It is common. It's common for victims to have in sexual violence to not get all the facts right in their statements, right? And so I am going to be fair to say the revisions to some point, although it's going to be scrutinized. It will be scrutinized in court by the defense.

That's common. But even when you get to the completed statement, I'm judging her by the completed statement. Once all the revisions are done, it still doesn't reach. You have to. It still doesn't reach sexual assault. So even taking her with the revisions, right, which is, as I said, I'm giving her some fairness there, it still doesn't meet the standard. And so why are we trying to bring this to her grand jury? If the prosecution, even trying to give her a layup, try to give her as much as support as he wants here when he knows it doesn't reach it.

Let's take a quick break. But continue this with Lawrence Jones and Vince August on Will Kane country. Okay. It's political pressure. It's public pressure. And if, Dan, monitor the chat. If they bring stuff in that I want to know about, I want you to do that. Well, someone said with that much booze and ketamine, how can she accurately remember anything?

You said that at one point. Okay. That's actually a point I want to pick up on. So everybody says this thing. Well, if you're drunk or high, you can't give consent. But that's not true in New York. Okay. Set aside the moral question.

Right. It's not true in New York. In New York, under the law, if you voluntarily get drunk, you can still voluntarily give consent. Now, if somebody slips you something. or something like that, that robs you of your ability to give consent. But if you choose to get drunk and high, you can still give voluntary consent. So the drugs, now she's amended that, as you pointed to me this morning, Dan, she's now saying she was pressured to do the drugs.

But there's nothing in the original statements that suggest that she was pressured. That's a civil complaint she's putting out two years later, probably because they know the New York law. Well, the DA, actually, when I did the interview, at the time, I thought that that, because I read that in the complaint, where she says that she's pressured. From the DA's point of view, being pressured, using the word pressure, still does not meet the standard. Right. Because I brought that up in an interview.

He said that doesn't meet the standard of her not consenting. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. The mobment. Here's the mob mentality, Will. So Sonny Hoiston on the view, because I went back and watched the clip, says this.

And Joy Behar says, but they attacked her. And Sonny has to look at Joy and say, no. No, it never happened. So even in a situation where you have someone saying, What's the attack? Just the Lawrence did. I'm going to read you exactly what happened. You will literally have someone say, but they attacked her.

character and make up a fact that's not an evidence create something out of the air and Sonny looks at and says no it never happened and still you could see Joy is like I don't know I don't know if I can so again

when you talk about the public it's still this moral plant my flag I'm a better person I'm right this is wrong no matter what and all the things well read don't matter don't matter well her reasoning

for saying this, and she gave a similar reason for the Clancy case as well. Her point was no woman would consent to seven men at one time. She said something similar in the Clancy case. She goes, no mother,

she has to be insane because no mother would kill three of her children. That is not a legal argument. Right. Right. Do we, where others have killed their kids?

Then we get to the stuff after the fact, right? So, Dan, I see the text messages that have been revealed today, but hold on real quick with those, because I want to get to the text messages that occurred before this. The text messages that occurred before this, which we don't have visually, is she texted with mail number one, who she was into, and he said something like, I'm sorry. got out of hand the other night, right? Right. And she says, and she says, it's all good.

Nothing. And these are her words. Nothing that happened was illegal. Like, that's pretty powerful for her to say that. Nothing that happened was illegal. And then the follow-up invitation. I want to hang again with you. And I think she said another dude, you and another dude, let's smoke.

I don't know what that means, presumably weed. and then she says leave out the all the I think did she say five billion like being exaggerating leave out the five billion other dudes and the ketamine so she says nothing that happened was illegal and let's hang again that's pretty powerful if you're suggesting you were raped I brought that up with the women I were talking to talking to and they said that after a sexual assault and trauma they will try to pretend to that everything's okay and everything didn't happen. The demand on this is that we don't even ever believe the person at the center of the story. Don't believe Lindsay Clancy when she says she killed her kids. Don't believe the words of the purported victim in this case. You're demanding that I believe something outside of what's happening in the incident. Oh, because often this happened.

But how am I supposed to ignore the words? And that's not all. we've got more. There's more. That's just the initial text exchange. So then we get this today from ABC. So this is the text exchange. You can put this up now, Dan. So what seems to be, okay, I want to start actually with the New York Times. Do you have the New York Times one? Because I think this is pretty, this is the next in the timeline. The New York Times reports. Jane Doe was milling around on an online forum about Greek life when she encountered a post that saw, stopped her cold. Here was the post she saw in this Greek life thing.

Are Kai-Fi brothers crips or bloods because I hear they've been doing hella gang-banging. All right. And then someone else wrote, they do drugs and gang raped a sophomore. Boom. Word rape, right? First mention of the word rape on a forum that Jane Doe is reading. And then someone else says, report them. Now here's the quote from Jane Doe. that's the first time I'd ever heard the narrative change that I wasn't a whore and that I was assaulted. Okay. Whoa, what do you mean? So in the background, Jane Doe's developed a reputation as a whore.

She's dealing with that. It's not pleasant, I can imagine. And somebody on an online forum takes it from a gang, what they call it in the beginning, gang banging, and someone goes, gang rape. And she's like, whoa. Okay? Now, why is my conclusion a reading of that supported? Now go to the text between the dude and her. So he texts her.

This is him, right? The first one? Bro, everyone. No, no, this is her. She says, bro, everyone knows I'm incredibly stressed out. Some random redacted told my friends. I don't even know how that person redacted. She knows me.

Okay, so Jane Doe is now saying, what we did that night is getting around. People are talking about me. I don't even know these people. They're talking about me. Then she says, I will also say, this is ruining my life temporarily. My reputation is destroyed, and I'm utterly ashamed. All right? Where's the dude's text?

Because he said something, too. Oh, here he is. He goes, this is in November. he says, well, wait, there's one more from October. Jane Doe says, you're right, you're right, it'll get better, and you think everyone's jealous of us, but also like everyone we needs to grow up, because sexuality and sex and redacted is changing, and stuff like this is going to become more common. I'm also really open-minded, though.

I love you, King. Also, tell everyone who gives you, redacted, that I'll actually beat them up that you don't want this smoke, I promise. Okay, so now she's saying, I'm getting this reputation. I don't like it. It'll get better. Everyone needs to chill out about whatever, casual or group sex. That's her saying this? Right? Yes, that's her saying this.

Wow. And it's going to get more common. Wow, that's right. So she's- Wow, that's right. She's sexually liberated. She doesn't like it that everybody's talking shit about her. She doesn't like the reputation.

And she's torn between, like, who's talking here and how dare they judge me? She's torn between that, right? Then that Greek Life Forum, then that Greek Life Forum comes up, the one I read from the New York Times. Now we have text messages in November, and now the dude comes in, and he goes,

My ex told me that I'm being labeled as an assulter in the public eye. I was going to ask you if you may have said something along those lines to someone, but I know you wouldn't. So now he's going, whoa. People are calling me a rapist or an assaulter on campus? Like, where's that coming from? And he wonders, is she now saying that about that night? And she responds, I had a friend who was going to kai-fi and I said, don't, but I never mentioned your name.

Okay. And then the next day, she texts, I think I'm done talking to you. I know you lied. I don't really know what that's about. I know you lied part. All right. So what I'm getting at now, I think I'm going to go to you on this, Vince, the picture that is developing from the police statement and the follow-on texts, all of them I just went through an order is a debauchess, by the way, condemnable orgy on everybody's part. No one wants their kids, male or female, involved in that. That's bad, bad behavior, right? developed into this girl's reputation was going in the gutter and she didn't like it understandably and by the way that's going to happen on college i bet her sorority was on her ass i bet friends

were talking shit about i bet all this stuff right and then it occurs to her the way out of this is an assault allegation i i can't be a bad person because i didn't choose to do this i was drugged into it, I was raped. And then you get that new story. Weird thing about it, Will, is she goes to an attorney to represent her in a civil case. I don't know the answer to this question. Does she ever go back to the DA's office to try to revive the criminal case first? Because, look, as an attorney, if someone comes to me and says I have this case. As a civil attorney, I have to say, look, I'll run with the civil case. I can't advise you to go run a criminal case because that's actually against ethics

rules, because what you're doing is you're trying to run two parallel cases at the same time, let someone do your investigation, and using the criminal potential criminal allegations and the criminal aspect of that case as leverage on your civil case. So what I don't know is, Does she go back to the DA's office first, or does she just go to this attorney's office? The attorney's office takes it, prepares the complaint, files the complaint, the complaint becomes public knowledge. It gets wind in the news because someone picks up on it. Now someone puts pressure on the DA, yo, what did you guys do two years ago on this? What do we do?

We investigated it. There was nothing there. It's a civil case, leave it out. And then all of a sudden it blows up. And now there's pressure from the public. And now the pressure from the public brings us to where we were two weeks ago when a juror comes out from the Clancy case and rather than talks about the facts and circumstances of this case, what does that juror say? This is an opportunity. We saw an opportunity to defend women that go through postpart and psychosis.

So now we have to worry, are we going to find jurors? This is an opportunity to punish sexual assault once and for all and not get to. free passes. This thing is a mess all the way around. And look, with the text message as well, I'm really careful with that stuff because, again, I've done this for 30 years. It's going to be 30 years this year. I want to see the whole string of text messages. Whenever you see, you know, one text message here, I want to see all of them. They're certainly not helpful what you've shown me, but I want to see the whole thread. The whole thing is problematic. To her claim. Not helpful to her claim. Not helpful to her claim at all. But I want to

to see the whole friend. What do you think, Lawrence? Um, look, I had already reached, um, my conclusion just from the legal standing, right? After I saw the text messages, I went, you know, Will, you're still at 80%. But after I saw those text messages, I went to 90%. Because there was one thing that I was looking at. for. I was looking for at some point her to confront them for raping her, right? To say, you rape me. You hurt me. When you did this, this was a problem for me. I didn't want you to do this. Why did you have the friends here? Why did you give me the dress? I can't remember

anything from from that night that wasn't put out there the shame was hey but Lawrence even if somebody said that's not a fair expectation of her she actually did the opposite affirmatively right you didn't right anything illegal that there you go there you go and so that's what I'm wrestling with right now um I feel horrible for I do because you know any type of, you know, young woman that consents at any point to any of this, right, any part. Say it was just a threason. I worry about this. I do.

I worry about the father in their life. The men that were that said that it was okay, you know. But the resolution for brokenness is not a criminal complaint or a civil complaint when you can simply. to such behavior. And so I think society sometimes feels like the justice system or the civil system is the only way to atone for something that went wrong here. And right now, the people that's getting to blame are the boys. And that's just not right.

I'm sorry. So many angles, but always in pursuit of the truth. What happened with the Cornell 7? And let's continue with Vince August and Lawrence Jones when we come back on Will Kane country. Let's, I want to, okay, so now we've laid out the facts. And I think what I hope is Lawrence and I both given what we think where the facts leads you. You know, I don't think we're far apart, Lawrence. I'm somewhere in the 80, 90 percent range.

And I reserve that 10, 15 percent, whatever it may be, because I'll never have been in the room. You know, I just can't have been in the room, you know. And so. That's the whole point is that no one was. So all these people that are 100 percent sure happened. Well, we have to use all of this. Yeah, they're 100 percent sure it's happened. Right. But acknowledging that, oh, I want to have a separate conversation about consent real quick.

But I want to address this comment. I can't read who it's from and it's already scrolled up. Appreciate the active chat. What was it about? It said, why so much coverage? It said, why so much coverage? I can read it. Ho-Hum said, why so much coverage when there's so much going on, these guys were obviously debags? Yeah, fine. They're debags. I have no problem with that. But I'm going to tell you why I think this deserves coverage.

Well, first of all, if Lawrence and I are right, seven, at a minimum, seven people's lives are being ruined, falsely, unjustly at the hands of a pitchfork mob. You're like, okay, it's still seven dudes. Why does that matter? Because this isn't isolated, okay? This is Duke Lacrosse. I can see Big Yep talking about Duke LaCross. This is Virginia Rolling Stone. This is a lot of what we mentioned in a minute ago, the race cases.

This is Lindsay Clancy. This is increasingly a societal issue. And we spent, honestly, we spent centuries, but it manifested in the last two centuries in America, developing a justice system for a purpose. And the purpose was to avoid exactly what's happening. to avoid this. Right? This is what people did in the past.

They gathered up in the town square. They got each other worked up into a lather. They grabbed their pitchforks literally. And they went and they killed somebody. You know? And you want to do it with race in reverse? How about that? You know, that black kid raped or inappropriately touched that white woman.

No justice in any real sense. Mob justice, right? And so I also think it's important because I think, I think we're symptomatic, we're deep into the symptomatic area of a society losing its mind. I really do. And I'm, and I'm, and I'm, that's why the TikTokers, you know, Vince, more than the celebrities matter to me. I don't know how indicative they are of the person I run into, but I got to where I didn't want to discuss Lindsay Clancy socially. Like if we had, if we were at a party and there was like half, half men, half women, I didn't, and I, I love discussing everything. And the reason I didn't want to

discuss it. I don't want to know that about you. If you tell me this he's not guilty, I don't want to know that about you because I can never look at you the same. Never. And that's kind of where this is going over and over again. Well, also, we'll just on another note talking about a cause, right? And I choose not to make the cause the thing. I just want to look at the individual case. But there's another called on the other side. And I remember two of my friends. I'm not going to mention a name because I don't, I don't want to stir this back up. The one athletes that I grew up with, right? They got accused of rape in college, accused of it, lost their scholarships and everything.

After investigation was done, they were cleared, right? There was no evidence and support the claim, really. But by the time that had been done, they lost. everything. Teams would not touch them. And it's all because of the mob rule. You know? It was one of the few crimes it's one of the few

crimes now where it's guilty until proven innocent off of an allegation. Oh yeah. It's one of the few where we do that. And the repercussions, how many of these dudes have lost their jobs already? I don't know. I think there's another

thing I play here well too. There's, and this is sad to say, but I think there is the theatrical component to this and the visual that comes with it when you hear seven guys from Cornell. I think there's an immediate visual of what these seven guys look like. So it becomes this seven frat boys, one girl, and that's a visual that's created. And it becomes somewhat of, you know, again, we're going to throw life into art. And it becomes that type of thing. That's why. So when someone says, why are we spending time on this?

I think that's why people go to it, whereas, and I'm not comparing the two cases at all, but you look at the case with Johnny Depp and what was her name? Amber Heard. Amber Heard. And you look at that. And the visual is different. It's actress, actor, and not only actor, but it's Edward Scissorhands. Come on.

It's Jack Sparrow. There's, you know, a more affectionate kind of, you look at him different. You know, you look at Johnny Depp. Whereas I think these guys are immediately put into a visual whether you've seen what they look like or not, and I don't know what they look like. I'll be honest, because I don't want to start going down. I think it's wrong that they're named and nonetheless in docks, but then to go look at them. But I think there's a visual that comes with it that plays to this a little bit too. And we'll go.

I think you're right. It's stereotypical movie bad guys. Seven Cornell frat boys. stereotypical. Go ahead, Dan. And going back to what you were saying about not all of them, the people I talked to, and I can only speak on this, they're saying even if some of them weren't

guilty, they don't mind breaking a few eggs to get the point across. And that's where they land on it. You know what I mean? That's real gross. I know. That's... Real gross. I'm making that metaphor, but that's exactly what they're saying. Like, if they have to go down for this, because

they were still part of it, they're still just as complicit, even though they didn't rape anybody, then they can go down and that's it. That's the viewpoint, I've heard. Literally. Oh, yeah, they're going to 57 fraternity guys. Exactly. That's what they're doing. Yeah, but see, that's that train of

thought is how OJ got off. Right? Because you see an injustice that takes place and you say to check the system, then I'm going to allow another injustice to take place.

That is a dangerous road to go down in my view. Oh, yeah, dude. Oh, yeah. There's one more thing. We've almost gone an hour on this, and I don't know. Also, why do we cover it? I don't know. I'm passionate about this because it has so many different elements that I think are symptomatic of larger problems. But I don't even know where to have this conversation, but let's have this one before we go. We're in a really messy place on the idea of consent.

Like, it's a really messy and bad place. And, you know, I don't know. Again, I'm the one with a son in college and another boy in high school. Like, I actually don't even know. And this is where the

TikTokers could be like, you guys so clear. Like, how do you prove consent? Do you know what I mean? Like, because that's what you have to do. And in order, it isn't about, because again, let's go back this. It's not about winning a legal case because the allegation carries so much punishment. So how do you ever avoid an allegation? And, you know, drinking and, I mean, are we saying

that isn't even fix it? If you say never have sex if you've been drinking because or either party's been drinking. Well, first of all, that's absurd. But secondarily, why does that fix it? Like, it's a moment in time where only two people know what happens, and one person's allegation carries with it ginormous potential consequences. And so I don't even know what advice. I don't know how we negotiate the concept anymore of consent. Like, do you remember during Me Too? Somebody developed an app that you checked the box. Both parties checked the box.

Yeah. Ambidia. Remember that? Yeah. Well, how dangerous is that? Right. Oh, yeah. And video.

You have to, you say it on video. I say it on video. But then people can say it changes. Yeah. Right. So what do you do there? Do you have them record another video? You know, like.

Right. I literally told a celebrity who asked me as a lawyer, you know, how do I, you know, how do I protect myself from this type of thing happening because as a male celebrity, I have women coming at me because they either want to be part

of the lifestyle, a celebrity lifestyle. How do I protect my stuff? And listen, for anyone out there that doesn't know that this is saying, I hate to break it to you, but there were rich, powerful men or celebrity men that women throw themselves at. Let's, can we at least acknowledge that that happens?

And this guy goes, how do I protect myself? in that situation and not get me too I said to him to his face you know what get it on video you at this point what on video? NDA literally ask them on video the consent

the consent yeah but but what about to dance point what if consent is withdrawn in the middle right that argument can be made right then that video is negated right to the point then you stop I mean it's because it's

Even if you stop, that's not the point. I don't want people confused. The point isn't what is the appropriate behavior. The point is how do you prove appropriate behavior? Right. And that situation again. That terrified me in my dating years in my 20s. I was worried about that, you know.

Someone making something up and changing the story. For anybody, it's like, just do the right thing, be the good guy. Yeah, of course. That's implied. How do you prove you? And by feel, I want to say this if it's necessary. there are not good guys. I know that. Oh, 100%. Everybody on the screen

knows that. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. So how do you prove you're a good guy? And you did things the right way? And again, I could morally disagree with the choices of the kids that were, you know, the people that were involved in this, these college kids, I can morally disagree with them and be like, come on, guys, what are you doing?

but it doesn't rise to the level of sexual assault. I mean, we have to realize there are, you know, there's a big distinction between, you know, these are fratboy guys that I would never hang out with people I would never like. I wouldn't want to know them, their parents, or anybody associated with them, but there's a big difference between how to breaking the law. Why their parents?

Why'd you say that? Listen, listen. You know what? the guy to raise him right and do it the best he can. And if they stray, they stray. Don't go there with him. That's a dude that doesn't have kids. I mean, I don't know how you.

I only say that because other people are doing that, Vince. They're going after these boys' parents. Wow. Like, what do they have to do with any of this? They could. I'm not going to say. You could have done a bad job raising them. But.

Because you know what, Will, I have to tell you. when I see a lot of kids acting out and I see parents letting them act out. There comes a point in time where you know what, you've got to be responsible for who and what you're raising. I'm not saying it's 100% of the case, but at the same time, you know what? Sometimes when I see a kid running around a restaurant and parents letting the kid run around a restaurant, who would I blame in that situation? Yeah, but you know, and I agree with you. Yeah, that's a little different.

I agree with you that. And it progresses. And it progresses. No, no, no. But the difference is the kids, which I think is a big problem out acting up and their parents are not doing discipline. The difference from this is, although from a society standpoint, we don't like it. This was consensual adult behavior. So that is different.

It is nasty. It's messy. But as she says in the text message, you know, it's fluid. want to experience myself. And there's a whole community of adults that do that stuff. That are nasty and messy. Then there's that. Then there's a whole group of people that are into nasty and messy.

And that's their lifestyle. And if that's what you do, man, I don't care. And if it comes out in your bedroom. Then they, you know, come down on it. Is the lesson that, who is it? Is it Mike Pence? Mike Pence is right? Like, he won't have lunch.

He wouldn't have lunch with anybody but his wife. like he wouldn't have lunch with another woman. I mean, like, is the lesson like old school, hardcore, like, you know what the answer to this is? Did you get married? Didn't Shannon Sharp say he would never go in an elevator? Obstain and get married. With a woman alone? Well, it is the lesson.

But it's not practical. Yeah. Yeah, but honestly it's the only way. It truly is. Yeah. It's a minefield, man. It's a minefield out there for young people. Well, especially with video out there at every party.

you know, it's just, you're constantly being surveilled and everything you say, everything you do. And my advice, I've done this from the male angle. My advice from the female angle, if I had a daughter, it would be, don't get, A, don't get messed up like this, meaning blackout drunk, first of all, that's the first thing. Don't do a horse tranquilizer. How about that?

Don't end up at frat houses. Like, this is not to put the blame on her, because I don't, actually, I don't think there's blame in this story. I think this is a bunch of people who chose to do something that's being turned. There's not blame. But if you don't ever want to be in these situations, don't put yourself in these situations. And I'd say to my son, like, don't be going down these roads. But real quick, Vince, I believe this.

Life is not full of bright lines. It's full of thin gray lines. And the only way to avoid getting to the bright line place is to stop going through the thin gray lines. Do you see what I'm saying? You just did the thing that I'm asking people to do, too. You said to me, you started this. Look, I talked to my boys. If this was my daughter, this is what I would say to my daughter.

And what I'm saying is, yes, parents need to do that as opposed to just let your, hey, listen. But it's no guarantee. Yeah, yeah. And come on. The thing is the parents could have. You know, my parents told me all the time. And I did it the bond of the thing. You know, I just did.

That's right. That's right. That's half the fire. I'll just tell you, I know the limitations of a sermon, received and given. You know what I mean? 100%. All right. I found this very productive. And I enjoyed talking with both of you guys, perfect people talk to about this. I appreciate you giving me more than an hour today on it. Make sure you check out Lawrence at Fox and Friends every Monday through Friday, 6 to 9 a.m. Eastern time.

Make sure you check out Vince August, comedian. What's your Twitter handle, Vince? Vince runs his mouth. August 21. He finally asked. Vince August 21. All right. We'll see you boys again next time.

Thank you, boys. Listen ad free with a Fox News podcast plus subscription on Apple Podcasts. And Amazon Prime members, you can listen to this show, ad free on the Amazon Music app.