Will Cain Country - The Inside Story Of What's Happening At The Southern Border With A Former Cartel Kingpin

Episode Date: February 18, 2025

Story #1: Off The Long Weekend: DOGE, Javier Milei, The Flu, and why does the media falsely think the government of President Donald Trump is one exclusively for white men? Story #2: A deep-dive into how Mexican drug cartels operate with a former Kingpin of the Sinaloa cartel, Margarito “Jay” Flores Jr, the Founder of 'From Kingpin to Educator.’ You don't want to miss this conversation! Story #3: A Conversation with The Crew: Who is the most masculine Democrat? Tell Will what you thought about this podcast by emailing [e-mail] Subscribe to The Will Cain Show on YouTube here: Watch The Will Cain Show! Follow Will on Twitter: @WillCain Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

One, off the long weekend, Doge's inspiration, Javier Millet, and Argentina. The flu, no one's talking about it, but everyone's feeling it, on the rise. Why? The flu. Government of Donald Trump, a government for exclusively whitening. Two, a deep dive on Mexican drug cartels with a former member of the Sinaloa cartel. Three, who's the most masculine Democrat? It is the Will Kane Show streaming live at Fox News.com on the Fox News YouTube channel and the Fox News. News Facebook page. Terrestrial radio, three dozen markets across this great United States of America, but always available by subscribing on Apple or Spotify so that it fits your schedule, whether

or not you're walking on the treadmill or driving to work a little late in the day. Every Monday through Thursday live right here at 12 o'clock Eastern time at Fox News YouTube and Fox News Facebook, where numbers, for what it's worth, are exploding. Almost 200,000 viewers yesterday on Facebook. We appreciate you joining the Wilicia. An absolutely fascinating set of shows over the next couple of days and in the next couple of weeks here on the Will Cain show. You will see conversations with the likes of Secretary of Defense Pete Hegeseth.

You will see conversations with the Secretary of the Department of Transportation, Sean Duffy, the head coach of the University of Alabama Crimson Tide, Kalin DeBore. Perhaps Democratic nominee for president, Stephen A. Smith. And today, bona fide celebrity and superstar Kevin Costner. In fact, at 4 o'clock on the Fox News Channel, I had a 13-minute-long conversation with Kevin Costner when I asked him, what's up next for you? What are you going to do next? If we do this again at Fox Nation, which park are you going to next?

I don't know. I'm a little bit of a passenger on this. I decide what I do in my life. I only have so much time. I felt Yellowstone was right. I felt that doing Yosemite was worth my time. I mean, we can replicate this, but I prefer to be moved by the story. Some things, they're all dramatic.

in their own way. But if I choose to put my name on something, I want it to somehow make a jump for those who would watch it. That's a conversation we had with Kevin Costner, Global Superstar, who has a new series up at Fox Nation, Yellowstone to Yosemite. It was a 13-minute-long conversation, fellas. And I think one thing you're going to come away with that conversation is how much we had to fight through technical troubles. I know that. I actually ended up loving it in that Kevin Costner is using a laptop with an external speaker and at one point in the conversation, he picks up the external speaker and holds it to his ear. Now, as I've mentioned, I've been around at this point in my career, a couple of superstars,

not stars, superstars. And my goal with every human being, including stars, is to find out who they are as a human being. I want to break through and truthfully there's nothing to get someone to being their real self or maybe even the worst version of themselves if you're sitting at home and you're trying to stream something or you're dealing with some technical issue. There's nothing that reveals the worst of you, the realest of you, than having technical troubles. It absolutely brings out the worst in me. Well, do it live. It's made me gray for those reasons. And that's job to a day. And I mean, you do maintain a calm demeanor. I go haywire quick. And it's because of a sense of lack of control. I don't know. My ignorance takes over and I don't know how to fix the

issue. But I saw Costner in that environment in this interview. And I have to say, I came away very impressed. And at the end of the interview, it's the second time now that I've interviewed Kevin Costner. Off air, he was kind of awesome. He was like, tell Will we had to fight through some real troubles there, but I thought that we accomplished it together. And I said, Kevin, I can hear you. And one of the lines I gave him was, hey, man, movies are perfect. Conversations are messy. And I kind of saw his face light up and he goes, thanks, man, we'll do this again. And I just feel like, okay, I saw a little bit of the real guy and I liked him. Now, that being said, there's every different version of every person in the world.

in you know kevin costner and i for example would have some disagreement on politics which we didn't get into the specifics but we did get into the idea of politics in movies and i did want to push beyond that and asked him what values are important to you when making a movie this particular story about yosemite national park he focuses in on the story of teddy roosevelt going on a three-day camping trip with noted, noted naturalist Western explorer John Muir, who was the founder of the Sierra Club. And Muir was what you would probably call a preservationist, not just a conservationist. He wanted basically very little human imprint on nature, which has a real value when you're talking about creating Yosemite, Yellowstone, Zion, Bryce. But I just am drawn to guys like Muir or Jim Bridger.

who is a character featured in American Prime Evil. He's an American explorer, mountain man. I just, I love these stories. And obviously so does Costner. I hope he finds stories. I hope he finds stories about Yellowstone.

I mean, not Yellowstone. He's done that in Yosemite, but Zion or Bryce or Grand Canyon, because these are gyms. I mean, these are perhaps crown jewels of America, and there are stories to tell their story. So we'll play a little bit more of that. And at 4 o'clock, you see the full interview with Kevin Costner.

We have a fascinating. I am really excited because this is a point of personal passion, as everyone knows, conversation coming up with Margarito J. Flores, a former member of the Sinaloa cartel. Tinfoil Patrick spoke to Flores ahead of this, wherein I think he asked, what are you going to talk about with me? And I said, I can give you no guidance. except I will pursue every bottomless well of my curiosity. So I expect we're going to learn about how drugs are traffic logistically, how cash is taken to Mexico,

what cities are owned by the cartels and the current Game of Thrones state of play in Mexico. Before we get all to that, though, the fire hose has turned back on as we wake up this morning the day after President's Day. The fire hose is spraying. News is coming fast and furious. So we thought we'd get into some of that with Off the Long Weekend. Story number one. Doge is the major story still making news. I want to bring you up to date on where we stand today with Doge.

Doge is cut and saved reportedly $55 billion from the federal budget. This is where it's coming from right now. Here's your top 10 agencies in total contract savings. Of course, you know, USAID. The Department of Education, we'll dive in there for one quick microscopic zoom in. The DOE canceled $600 million in teacher trainings, DEI programs, 70 DEI training grants, totaling $373 million, were canceled. Office of Personnel Management, HHS, USDA, DHS, General Services Administration,

Commerce, EPA, and HUD have all seen the biggest contract savings so far for DOE. Elon Musk and Doge have been invited in now to the Pentagon and the DOD and invited in to the Department of Transportation, not just for where we can save money, but where we can update. Outdated systems like cobalt, which is developed in the 1960s and is controlling much of the federal payment systems or federal aviation administration and flight controls. Where can we not just save, but where can we innovate and bring things into the 21st century? has highlighted that Treasury, $4.7 trillion in payments have been made that are completely untraceable. Why is that? Because there is supposed to be a field in most of these payments showing what it was line itemed for. But most of these of the $4.7 trillion were left blank. No idea where that money was spent. Congress appropriates money. U.S. Treasury sends the checks out

What did they pay when they paid out $4.7 trillion? Now, this is against the backdrop of the entire Democratic Party and much the left decrying our new autocracy. I give you the former head of the RNC, Michael Steele, on MSNBC. This individual sitting down the 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue has given absolute power to one man who brings his son into the Oval Office. whose son says to him, you're not the president. You shouldn't be in that chair. Now, where did he get that from? He got it from his daddy,

because that's what his daddy thinks of the man who brought him into the Oval Office. So I'd just like to see somebody wake the hell up and get excited about the fact that your country is under assault. They're not at the gate anymore. They're in your bedrooms. They're in your living rooms.

They're in your businesses. They got your dad, dumbass. got all your stuff. Elon Musk has his tentacles and everything you're doing, not just off of X, but now he's in the Treasury Department. He's in the Labor Department. He's in the Department of Homeland

Security. And nobody seems to give a damn. So that's all I want somebody that show that they care enough to get out their fat ass and say something about it. One thing about this clip that I would say is

he seems real. He seems like he's being authentic. I'm pretty good at reading things on television. That perhaps might have been performative. If you're listening on radio or Spotify or Apple, his body language reads the authenticity. He is slumped. He is not trying to maintain, quote unquote, TV posture. He's leaning back.

He's got his hands to his face. He's cursing. It seems real or it's performatively pretty good at coming off as authentic. Now, the thing about authenticity, while I consider it my currency, it is only a starting point. Authenticity is like reaching first base. In order to score in baseball, you have to advance the ball. You've got to get out of the batters box. Authenticity gets you to first base.

After that, it's a question of whether or not anybody likes what you have to say. Whether or not they like the real you. Or whether or not you're full of falsehoods. and that's where he gets caught stealing from first to second. This has been laid out by Kerry Kupek, Fox News, legal analysts this morning. Coverage of Doge ignores the fact they are federal employees, allowing them to operate under the same rules and guidelines as other federal workers. Political appointees are federal employees. In other words, if they are hired to do a job like an audit, they must be permitted to do that job.

job. If anything, political appointees should have more access than their career colleagues in that they were effectively elected directly by the people to do their jobs via the president. The point is, all of this privacy that you're suddenly concerned about, all this information you want to protect was always available to federal employees. They have your stuff already, dumbass, the feds. And now you're concerned that Doge has same access as a career bureaucrat nothing in the past motivated you to get off your fat ass and see that your privacy could have been compromised but now that efficiency is the purpose instead of a job creation program through the federal government you're motivated now you're upset now you scream about the end

of our democracy i think it's never been laid more bare but what you're really concerned about is the end of our bureaucracy because so many of these political people are part of the that makes them on the take cut down the federal government what happens have you guys seen what's going on with home prices in washington dc have you seen the real estate market in dc my bet is you still bet on the long term but in the short term not so hot because everybody's on the take and the jobs program known as the federal government the fascinating thing about this is it's already been done i'm going to be exploring this more on the television version of the will cane show But it's possible the inspiration for Doge came from Argentina.

Javier Mali has gone about cutting the government in Argentina. What followed was a drop in inflation. It looks a lot like what Doge is doing right here in the United States of America. Number two, speaking of employees, there are many now that say that the federal government is a work projects program. for white people. Juan Williams, former Fox News contributor, has a column up. We can share the headline wherein he says Trump's idea of competence, only white men need to apply. This, of course, is to suggest that I think he even points out in his column, his former colleague, Sean Duffy and Pete Heggseth, are examples of unqualified white men, modern DEI, which cuts out minorities.

It's absurd on its face because the definition of diversity isn't limited nor should it be primarily viewed as your skin color, what's your diversity of thought? Have you ever seen a more diverse administration than that of Donald J. Trump, R.FK, Tulsi Gabbard, Marty McCarrie, J. Batatariah, on and on and on.

Michael Waltz, not exactly of the same exact political stripe as Tulsi Gabbard I mean there was a time when this was celebrated and Doris Kearns Goodwin wrote books about it you know the team of rivals from Abraham Lincoln to Barack Obama

but now it's a monolith of white people and on that note by the way James Carvels talked about this the way the Democrats are talking to people I mean you want to hear something that is racist listen to Democrats talk about people look at the way

they view the world. Look how there's one concept now, right? Okay, minorities. That's who the Democrats stand for. What is a minority? Here's James Carville. I just want to make a disappointed observation. I think these people, the most

racist thing that I hear is when people say communities of color, or people are color, because that assumes that everybody that is not white is the same. Which is that like, it's horribly horribly, I think it's racist to say, well, Filipinos are the same as Hondurians or the same as Nigerians are the same as Indonesians, is absurd.

And they just keep using this language. And I think they're too naive to know how stupid it is. That's really good. You know, when I started a Keenegro magazine, you guys are known, my history with Keenstner, say, girl, you know, one of the first things that drove me to looking into Quintaneras, which I didn't grow up with at that time when I grew up in Texas, we didn't have a large Latino population. We do now. I didn't know Keynesnears. My wife did growing up in West Texas. It's because I could take that point even further than Carville. Like, Latino and Hispanic,

that is not a monolith. You know, somebody from Puerto Rico is not the same as somebody from Mexico, is not the same from somebody from Venezuela, but a government term, Hispanic, blends them all together. add to that there's a difference between an immigrant or a first generation Latino and someone who's been here for 10 generations culturally they're not the same so I had to search like what is a cultural tradition commonly held by most Latino ethnicities and survives acculturation what I found was the Kinsenera but the point is from a distance when you blur and squint your eyes

you make everybody look the same by lumping them into Hispanic or even broader minority, you know? And I just think it belies. I've always said this. You know, there's a lot of people on the right that say this. But it belies the underlying racism of the left. All right, third, I asked 10 full of Pat to look into this. Two of days, you said your families cut you out of the text chain for Thursday night.

Yeah. Thursday night, you're out. The Canadians don't want me saying anything about the game. Cool. I guess they hate free speech. Rematch, U.S. Canada, Thursday night, Four Nations Cup. First round, 5.4 million viewers, which is huge for hockey, right? And of course, a lot of the bad blood, booing the national anthem and so forth has been driven by Donald Trump suggesting that Governor Trudeau should think about the 51st state of Canada.

Well, they don't want the 51st state, and I'm here to tell you, I don't want them as a 51st state. I don't need two senators from Canada, and I don't know how many congressmen tipping the balance of power to their Canadian values, which on the left. But I did ask 10 foil paths to take a look at this. What does Canada look like if you start really looking into Canada? And I find this fascinating. For those of you listening on Spotify, Apple, or on radio, I'm going to describe this to you. This is the 2019 Canadian federal elections, okay? It's broken up between liberal conservative

And then some parties that I don't know Block Quebequa I'm assuming that's on the left by the way Since I believe Quebec is a more liberal Area of Canada New Democrats, we're also going to assume I'm sorry if I'm wrong That's on the left and green again on the left

What you see is Conservative blocks And I don't know my Canadian states as well But let me see if I can do it conservative states in, you guys help me out, Winnipeg, Calgary, Edmonton, Regina, Saskatoon. So why don't we just take those parts and start expanding?

Yeah, everyone says Alberta's the most. And then keep pushing forward. And the most liberal, well, that would be like Prince Edward Allen, Halifax, Ottawa, Montreal, Toronto. I was out there last year. I was out that way

last year in like St. Andrews is pretty liberal. The area closest to the northeast looked pretty conservative outside of the cities. To the northeast outside of the cities.

Well, on this particular map, red is liberal and blue as conservative. So I was a little surprised like in the northeast Halifax and Prince Edward Island are liberal. I just assume the more

remote in Canada, the more conservative, the more urban, the more liberal. And most of the population, when you're portioning it by population, would be liberal because of Toronto and Montreal and Ottawa. So they would tip a House of Representatives in the United States. In the Senate, if you carved it up into like, I don't know, five states or something like that, you could maybe make the arguments you'd you'd get some more conservative senators but the point i'm getting at is forget forget sheer politics right forget that there's just also a cultural issue to be had when i did my thing on four o'clock fox news channel will cane show i said i you know there's some Canadians that watch

and they didn't like it and i you know what and i try to i i respect that i do i respect pride regional pride country pride I respect someone having pride but I mean like you're still a little bro yeah they can be wrong and I respect also

yeah I mean there's pride in Oklahoma you know Connecticut pride I mean I love you Oakey's there's just like I love Aggies

and all of a sudden it's open season on Oklahoma I was going to say there's West Village pride but that would where I grew up When you went into the honky tonk bathrooms, the graffiti said the border patrol is on the wrong border.

Where I grew up, we understood Texas versus Oklahoma. Wow. You know, I just think, I get it. I like the rivalry. I like the patriotism. I like the pride. I like the rise. You know, we had the conversation yesterday about nationalism.

How about this? Patriotism. I like a rise in patriotism. Even a rise in Canadian patriotism. It's going to be lit. Is that 10 years old? I think people still use that. I think I said that in high school in 2006.

Yeah, but can you come up with a better word? It's going to be lit on Thursday night. I can't believe you're saying that. Give me a better word than lit for that. Bonkers. Fleak is way older than all of those things. No. It's going to be.

Skibbittie. That's bad, isn't it? Nope, not skibbitty. Skibbity. No, Skibbittie is good. skibbty is good now i'm so confused skibbty is crazy i hate all this new lingoes so much i love how we're having this conversation and there's a

former cartel member just kind of watching us have it what are they talking about right now we got to get to that but first i want to hit one more story coming off the long weekend and that is the rise in flu nobody's talking about this we're going to deep dive on the will cane show on the fox news channel this is fascinating okay i want to share these stats with you Alex Berenson, of course, famous from the truths he told and the depths he dove when it came to the vaccines and the truth behind COVID in his reporting all along.

Some he got right, some he got wrong. He was always out there, and we're willing to accept that for an independent thinker, of course. And he's pointing this out. I believe there are 15. It's the highest number of doctor visits for flu-like symptoms. in 15 years. Nearly 8% of all health care visits last week were for respiratory illness. It's the highest since 2009, 2010. That's when swine flu went around. 50,000 patients hospitalized with the flu, says the CDC. Roughly a third, 32% of flu tests came back positive.

I have had something that's been lingering for three weeks. I'm better, but I still have a cough. I think everybody on the show, I don't know, I don't know Patrick. I know two a days had it. everybody I know personally is gotten something so here's some legitimate questions we'll look to answer perhaps on the wheelcane show legitimate questions should we suspect any type of other manmade virus we know that happened in the first situation with COVID what are the effects is what barrenson is writing about of the MRI vaccine has it had any um immunosuppressant effects on our ability to deal with other even natural viruses but perhaps the most interesting to me nobody hears about this because nobody wants to hear about it you know what i mean you probably

don't want to hear me do this and you know why because we're also skeptical of anyone creating hyperbolic pandemonium over a cold over the flu because of the way it was treated during covid this is the price you pay when you behave that way from a governmental immediate perspective through COVID. You pay the price that no one wants to hear even now the highest number of flu in 15 years and we're all

experiencing it. And yet we can't talk about it because you created so much cynicism in the public over the last round. COVID. Let's say quick break. I can't wait to dive into everything I ever wanted to know about the Mexican drug cartels with a former member

of the Sinaloa cartel next on the Will Kane show. Stop. Do you know how fast you were going? I'm going to have to write you a ticket to my new movie, The Naked Gun. Liam Nissan. Buy your tickets now and get a free Tilly Dog. Chili Dog, not included. The Naked God. Tickets on sale now.

August 1st. you ever wanted to know about Mexican drug cartels. If you're only informed by narcos or Ozark or Sicario, well, let's use that as a jumping off point. Everything you ever wanted to know about the Mexican drug cartels. It's the Will Cain Show streaming live at Fox News.com on the Fox News YouTube channel and the Fox News Facebook page. Hit subscribe, please, at Apple, Spotify, or on YouTube, and join the Wallitia. Got new people looking to become members of the Alicia. The Routless podcast boys texted this morning. They're members of the Willisha. Governor Brian Kemp jumped in because he heard me on Ruthless, and my old boss at Foxenford

and said, how do I join the Willisha? Just hang with this man every day and maybe even jump into the comment section. Joining me now is Margarito J. Flores. He's a former member of the Sinaloa cartel. He is the founder of Kingpin to Educator. He's been highlighting everything about the cartels. And I appreciate him joining us here on the Will Can Show and dealing with me talking about everything over the long weekend. Thanks, Jay, for hanging out with us today. Thank you for having

me, Will. I really appreciate being here. I apologize again about the mask and the sunglasses. Let's start there, if we might, Jay. When I had you on about a week ago on the Fox News channel version of the Will Kane show, a lot of people actually kind of got mad at me. They said, Will, what are you doing? Like, he clearly is hiding his identity with a mask and glasses. And yet, behind him are pictures. A lot of viewers said, behind you are pictures of your family. So they, and even using your name, they were like, what are you doing, exposing this guy?

I can only assume, Jay, that you've changed your appearance. And whatever I'm seeing behind you is perhaps an old version of you in the way that you look. And the cartel knows who you are. It's a matter of knowing where you are and what you look like today. Am I correct? Yes, sir. Yeah, those pictures are old.

I don't look exactly the same. Most of the pictures out of me are all when I was a teenager, 16, 17 years old. I think my biggest security is making sure that no one actually knows where I'm at. I take my security seriously, of course. But to those who know me, maybe if I would run into them at the airport, that's possible. But I doubt that any drug cartel members are going to be walking around the airports here in the United States. Well, let's talk about your experience, okay, first. So we say it in your introduction, a former member of the Sinaloa cartel.

I'll say for the audience, and you and I'll dive into this a little bit later, Senaloa Federation has been historically, probably over the last 30 years, the biggest cartel in Mexico. What did you do for Sinaloa? Well, Mr. King, just to correct, I think it's the biggest cartel in the world, right, that's based out of Mexico. Well, primarily me and my brother's drug trafficking organization, we distributed and sold multi-ton quantities of illegal substances, drugs, narcotics, especially cocaine. And where did you do that? On the American side of the border, were you on the distribution side here in America?

Yeah, I think that's a great point for us to make is that, you know, most Americans, I actually get their knowledge from watching shows. like narcos and i'm american born american i you know i say this all the time that we're american made uh before i step foot into me and my brotherization was already moving multi-toned quantities of cocaine um throughout chicago and and close by cities okay so your city was chicago so i'll ask you personal details you can tell me what you can share and what you can't what i'm interested in is how this formation occurs, how this whole thing takes place. So are you born and raised Chicago? Are you, is that your hometown?

Yes, I was born in a raised in Chicago in a neighborhood that's primarily a Mexican neighborhood called Little Village. I was born to a family of drug traffickers. My father, my older brothers, were all drug traffickers. We're all in the business way before I was born. And me and my twin brother are the youngest of our family. and basically we picked up the drug trade at home. We started helping my father out in the drug trade at the age of seven when he came home from prison,

from serving a prison census for drug trafficking. And basically we learned every aspect of drug trafficking from the importation to the distribution through my family, to my father, to my older brothers. So tell me really quickly about your father. in that i'm curious how long your family had been in america and i'm going to tell you why i'm going down that road because i think it has a important question when it comes to the mexican drug cartel i guess i'll go ahead and lay this out i'm curious how deep your connections are

in mexico had your family been in america for a long time were they recent immigrants did they have a family back in mexico yes well my father um he migrated to to the United States on a work visa to California to work the farms there, I think in the 1950s, I want to say. And he had a family, my older, you know, I have two siblings that were born in Mexico, and there's a total of seven of us. So there's two siblings that were born in Mexico and five of us that were born in the United States.

Okay. And the reason, Jay, I'm going down that path is I'm curious how you establish trust and make a connection back to Sinaloa when you are somebody from America and Chicago? Yes, absolutely. He started with my father. My father's roots being in Mexico, he started in the drug trade. At that time, it was a black tire heroin. And he started distributing heroin in California and then later on in Chicago. And, you know, back then before cell phones and social media, it was all, you know, your last name and, and your name. And your name carried that, you know, credit and basically responsibility of, of, of, you have a great

name. You were able to, you know, establish yourself as a, as a, someone that pays back their debts or pays back, you know, shipments of drugs and, you know, where it gets around. Okay, did you guys in Chicago serve as wholesalers or were you used street level distribution as well. You know, um, my brother and I started as basically, uh, distributors. Um, we, we, we started off, you know, from my brother and I, we, we kind of started off pretty big. Our first deal of cocaine was for 30 kilos of cocaine that was actually given to us by a, uh, a wholesaler of the Seattle cartel. And basically, we would just act like middlemen, um, sort of say from, you know, we would receive the drugs from the distributor. And we would basically,

basically as middlemen to you know street gangs in the chicagoland area so so let me see if i have this correctly would the drugs come from mexico directly to you and your organization or was there another middleman between that connection and then you sold it on to street gangs that you didn't necessarily run i would assume but they were serving on the corners they were out on the corner selling the drugs? Yeah, well, at different times of our drug trafficking career, I guess, we started off receiving, you know, from a distributor. The drugs would come from Mexico and the cartel at that time, they were in charge of actually

receiving, looking for customers, looking for wholesale, like my brother and I. And we outgrew them, basically. We started off, you know, as middlemen, and within a couple of years, we'd be came actually the distributors for the Cinalot cartel. This is before I even stepped foot into Mexico, before I actually ever dealt with, you know, a drug lord. And, you know, we basically moved up the ranks. And we started actually controlling the hub for the Cinaldo cartel.

So we were in charge, you know, later on receiving, you know, multi-ton shipments of cocaine and then we were distributed to wholesale distributors and, you know, and so on. so we weren't selling Okay, so let me see if I get this straight Oh go ahead Were you in your organization on the corners Or you never played the street level

No, we were never in the corners There's multi, it's a multi level right Drug distribution I'm like Amazon so we're basically You know middlemen to wholesalers And then they would actually We would wholesale large amounts to more lower level Maybe shop callers and gangs

and then they would basically break it down into, you know, the street level sales. Okay. So it's a multi-tier system. Do I have this correct? A three-tier system, did you say? Is that fair? Three tiers, right? Yeah, it's a few tiers, you know, a few levels between someone like us and the street corners.

Okay. And then above you, above you, you start out where you are getting it from a direct member of the Sinaloa cartel. You said you outgrew them and you essentially replaced that level of the tier. At some point, do you get called to Mexico and now you're becoming the primary point of contact with Sinaloa? Well, I think reputation played a big role at that time that we were actually receiving multi-tons shipments of cocaine and were able to pay them back on time and pay them back quickly. And it wasn't a call, but it was more of a kidnapping. My twin brother was kidnapped by the senior cartel over a drug that was blamed on us. And when I received the ransom

request, they basically told me that, you know, he was kidnapped by Alchapaguzman. And that led me to, you know, a face-to-face meeting with him. And from that point on, we became the largest distribution hub for the Cinaloa Cartel. So let me get this straight. What started out is probably a terrifying moment here. Your brother's kidnapped ended up like a big business opportunity for you where you became the biggest distributor after meeting with Chapo? Yeah, I said that pretty likely, huh?

Yes. A kidnapping turned into, I guess, a big business opportunity for my brother and I. That meeting led us to become a former friend. friendship and form of business partnership. I, the other day on, again, the Wilcane show on television had Ed Calderon, who used to be a police officer in northern Mexico, federal police officer, I believe. I don't know if he was state. I think he was federal. You may know Ed.

In Tijuana. I know Ed Calderon. Big shout out to Ed Calderon. He's out of the state of Tijuana, Baja California. And Ed corrected me on something, Jay. he said choppo was not the leader of the sinola federation that he was a bit of a figurehead it was a federation meaning a power sharing arrangement among a bunch of guys and if anybody watches you know narcos and i've watched the uh there's a mexican series i can't remember

the name of it it might be called choppo i've watched that as well um it seemed like he was very assertive in trying to to gain power among the federation my point is calderon made the point that I believe El Azul, right? Is that right? Or Ismael Zimbada was the, was and is the actual head of Sinaloa cartel, although now he's in American custody. Yeah. All due respect to Ed Calderon, I think this is why it's important for me to actually go

around the country and inform law enforcement, right? Of course, there's a lot of law enforcement officers that are very educated that know how the drug cartel works. But Chappo was actually, he was the boss. I think that there's a misconception that there has to be a number one. And the drug cartels don't work that way. El Chapo Guzman was the boss of his own organization. And so is El Mio Sambada, which who is now in custody, he was, you know, the boss of

Al-Azul is a different guy. El Maya is a different guy. El Mio Zambada, he was the boss of his organization for the last 50 years. And it, you know, I get this question. asked to me all the time. So it's not who's the number one. They basically see themselves the same. You basically have two CEOs

for two different organizations that basically act as one. And they did a pretty good job for many years, for many decades of working that way. And they never had an issue. So there's never has to be a number one or number two.

Is that unique to Sinaloa? I mean, if I look back at the Zetas, which I think they're basically defunct now, that looked way more hierarchical. I don't know about, you know, Holisco New Generation or any of these others. Are they all much more hierarchical and they have a number one and it was unique with Sinola? Yeah, well, a lot of them have number one. What was unique with Sinalo was that it was one of the largest drug cartels in the world. So it was made up of many different organizations tied into one. You mentioned the Federation. The Federation broke

apart, you know, within my dealings, one of the time I was there. So, you know, there was a lot of bosses, but there was also, you know, the top bosses, which was at that time was El Chapo Guzman and El Mayo Sambala. I don't know if other drug cartels functioned the same way, but I know that to see a Colorado cartel was basically a partnership, you know, that worked very well for many years. Jay, do you, are you familiar? I mean, during your time, what years were you active with the Sinaloa cartel? Well, I began trafficking drugs with my brother in 1998.

I started working directly with a lieutenant from the Sinaloa Cartel in 2001. And from 2001, I actually turned myself in in November 2008. I was the primary contact for the Cinal Cartoon in Chicago. So you're talking about a time where it's very contested in Mexico. Specifically, I believe, in places like Del Rio, wars with the Zetas, wars with the Gulf cartel, wars with everyone. And at that time, in my curiosity, I don't remember when my curiosity about this began to peak, but you could kind of draw, at least from the outside a guy like me was just reading about it right you could kind of draw maps of like who controlled what and places like del Rio were contested areas right but um um what i have come to understand

is that's much harder today it's harder to draw a map of mexico and say who controls what where because it seems much more chaotic than in the days of four or five cartels controlled the whole country. It seems like maybe there's 10, 12, and they're smaller, and it's more fluid in geographic territories blend. Yeah, they have splintered into many smaller organizations, many smaller cartels and organizations, drug trafficking organizations, or criminal organizations, because many of these new organizations are not, you know, their business is not actually drug trafficking, their business extortions or you know kidnappings or human trafficking um yeah i think that's the been the issue that the more did the governments go after you know major drug cartels that they splinter off

into smaller more violent more um ruthless uh cartels because i think it leadership right i think you know you take someone that's actually uh doing a good job and even in that world they're doing a good job right when in terms of leadership you take them out you know and remove them and someone steps in to try to fill the shoes and most of the time they're not they don't have the experience or the knowledge and um what's been common as of now is that everyone wants to be more violent than the last guy and it's what you're seeing today in mexico so do you what do you make of the i don't know if it's even right for me to call it a conspiracy but okay the theory has been for quite some time that the Sinaloa Federation was protected by the American government,

I mean, the Mexican government, that it had corrupted the American, the Mexican government. That might be a Freudian slip. I keep saying American instead of Mexican, which we'll get to in just a moment. But they had corrupted the Mexican government, and they had to have minor skirmishes with the government, but other cartels came and went at a very fast pace, you know, what's called four or five years in the spotlight, and the Cinelloa remained, and the reason they remained is because they were protected at high levels of the government in Mexico. And then the theory is the American DEA, CIA also played a role in that because they knew the theory being what would happen if you cut the head off the hydra. You'd have all these crazy cartels pop up and it be even more uncontrollable. What do you make of that theory?

well your theory about the mexican drug cartels actually working with or being protected by the mexican government to me it's a fact i was involved um you know corruption was probably the most important tool for a cartel like the sena law cartel um you know i was involved in in the cartel at the time and i you know worked in mexico and and basically was protected you know our loads were protected by the mexican government we paid a monthly dues as a chip in to actually pay for government officials to let our drugs go through. So that's a factual. I think that the Mexican government has been protecting the cartels for many, many decades. And it's just coming to light. And I think that that's great that they're basically putting pressure on the Mexican government to actually do something about it. And I think the government fears more of what could happen to them than actually, you know, what's happening to, you know, the country of Mexico. In terms of that, though, to America.

Yeah. I mean, in terms of America and the conspiracy that, you know, it could be a conspiracy, it's a tough one. It's a hard one to actually address. I know that there's many high-ranking leaders of the drug cartels that were actually feeding information. to, you know, the U.S. government as basically a power move to basically get rid of, you know, their enemies and from my understanding that the United States government

accepted the information. I think why wouldn't they? But I don't, you know, from everything that I know, everything I've been through working alongside with, you know, the biggest drug traffickers in the Cinalo cartel is that they always knew that the American government was looking for them. And no matter what type of information

they were feeding of the United States government never stopped, you know, going after them. So I guess it's a, you know. Sinaloa didn't feel insulated. Chapo didn't at times feel safe from the American government. Absolutely not. And to be honest, he didn't feel safe from the Mexican government either because he understood that they, you know,

he learned, you know, the hard way that they betrayed him early on when he was first arrested. So, yeah, but no, for sure, every day to them was a day where they took care of themselves, you know, and try to just hide, right? Live in hiding. Jay, explain to me the corruption on the American side of the border. How corrupted is, let's talk in levels, Border Patrol, DEA, judges, politicians, senators, how corrupted are various levels of the American government when it comes to influence. bought off by Mexican drug cartels?

That's a great question. So this is from my knowledge and my point of view. It's not organized as it is in Mexico. You know, the Senalo cartels or cartels in Mexico, it's from the top to the bottom that they're actually, you know, paid off that there's corruption. In the United States, it's basically, could be one drug traffic organization, one person, you know, just in my case alone, you know,

I, you know, was basically the victim of corruption. But it wasn't by an agency or a department, you know, or a group of people, a group of individuals. It was one and two, you know, law enforcement officers acting alone. So I think that that there is corruption, but not at an organized level, not in a way where it's like, you know, law enforcement officers acting alone. So I think that, that there is corruption, but not at an organized level. Not in a way where it's like, you know, law enforcement, you know, a group of law enforcement officers are working together with drug cartels to actually, you know, traffic or transport drugs. Okay. More randomized. Yeah, randomized. Less coordinated. How high do you think the randomization goes? Do you think Mexican drug cartels might have its tentacles at high levels

of American government? I do not think so. Um, and, and, and, and, Everything I know tells me that they don't. You know, to me, you know, I always ask this question about corruption. And I always feel like, you know, you might be able to corrupt one official. It doesn't matter, you know, where he's at, what office is the highest office or the lowest office. Not everyone's going to feel the same way. You know, law enforcement in the United States continue doing their job. And I don't think that it would be any beneficial for, you know, drug cartel.

to have one high-ranking, you know, official of any government, of the United States government working with them unless it was the president. So, yeah, I don't believe that the drug has to have anyone at a high level. I do, you know, I've worked with the United States government. I do think that's very different. I think that they're harder to corrupt. And I know that that's been the talk as of lately, but I just don't, you know, everything I know and everything I've been through with the United States government, I don't believe that they're involved in any type of corruption with any drug cartel. Let's talk about logistics for a minute.

You know, you referenced narcos. Let's reference Ozark, okay? Ozark is the Netflix series starring Jason Bateman. He plays a money launderer for a Mexican drug cartel. Talk to me about the sophistication of the logistics of drugs. drug trafficking. Do you think that, let's just use that example, are there high-level accountants in the American side that are employed by the Mexican drug cartels?

We can only assume high-level lawyers. I'm assuming that's correct. But, like, you know, at some point, the employment base of the cartel becomes very white collar and very sophisticated, I would assume. I think that's great for TV. Now, I'm going to try to break this down as easy as I can. So the number one way, I mean, you know, the money laundering is always a question, but money for most of the part, you know, there is some, you know, importance in, you know, white-collar, you know, business people trying to lounder, you know, money. But most of the time it's for, like, individual drug trafficking organizations, individual profits.

from everything of my knowledge and everything, you know, I experience that every drug trafficking transaction or every deal that's made, it's only paid with the American dollar. There is, you know, their way of actually transporting and actually receiving their money is basically receiving a ton bulk shipments of U.S. cash. Okay, but let me jump in there. So you're talking about truckloads full of cash headed south into Mexico? Yes. So just think about it this way.

It's basically drug cartels work as, you know, subcontractors, basically. Everyone needs to get paid. You're not going to pay, you wouldn't have paid Chapo Guzman with a hard drive and say, here's, you know, your, you know, $150 million I owed you this month. No, it's basically the only cash that's, I mean, well, it's only cash that's being accepted. And it's being basically laundered by sending truckloads of U.S. currency across the border in the billions. This ain't the movies. It's not somewhere where someone's actually trying to put these funds back in the bank because they need them to pay for corruption, to pay for more drugs, to pay for transportation costs, and so on, to pay the cargos.

And that's all cash driven. It's not bad transfers, wire transfers. Yeah, trust me, I, uh, Mexican drug cards has not paying the Sicario through a cash app, you know, on that's, that's only in the movies. Uh, they're paying them with, with the U.S. dollar. Um, so, so I think that that it's, it's great because I think that people think that, you know, it's in the banking system. And it, that's one way for someone to actually launder their own personal money. Like if Chappo wanted to launder, you know, his own personal profits, uh, of, you know, a billion dollars, then maybe he would look for these bankers or someone to basically,

you know, have an operation where they're laundering his proceeds, his profits. But if he's profiting, just say, a billion dollars, then that means that his organization brought in a total of maybe, what, $30 billion of proceeds. Those proceeds are not going to be laundered. Those proceeds are going to be actually transported in bulk U.S. currency, you know, from the United States into Mexico. but then into, you know, parts of South America. How do you do it?

I mean, you literally fill a tractor trailer and 18 whither full of cash? Like, how do you, you know, we see the images of how you bring drugs into the United States, buried in tires or even swallowed by humans, just all these different ways. Cash, that's kind of hard to hide, I would think. I don't know. Is it? Well, this is the principle of actually why I actually started working with law enforcement, because I think that that's the key, is that the United States.

governments, and I think the world's governments focus on all the drugs coming into the country, but they're not focused on what's coming out. And I think it's more profitable and will be more damaging if we were to go after the, you know, bulk U.S. currency that travels across the border each and every day in vehicles or in commercial vehicles. That's the primarily source. And just to Just to give you a understanding, for every kilo of illegal narcotics, if it's cocaine, methamphetamine, for the most part, fentanyl, you have to transfer back maybe a kilo-a-half to two kilos of bulk U.S. currency in weight. So if a drug cartel, if we combine them and we say that, you know, Mexican drug cartels are bringing in a hundred tons of illegal substances into the United States, that means that they're actually exporting out anywhere between 200 and 300 tons of bulk U.S. currency that's being crossed over that southern, you know, crossing over the border and undetected. And just something just to point out is that we had seizures. I think our seizure rate, you know, estimated at maybe 10% of the loads, 5, 10% of our loads, not just mine, but, you know, collectively with the Ceylonal cartel.

And from my, you know, nine-year span working directly with them, we didn't have a large major cash seizure. None. No, really. but 10% is where you were like 10% acceptable burn rate on seizures it would have been but you didn't even get to that you're saying you know on drug seizures on drug seizures you know um i don't think we were at the 10% i think you know it was anywhere from 5 to 7% and it's it's one it's part of doing business right i remember one um i'm speaking to one very important uh lieutenant for the cinal cartel he had told me that he was losing one out of every

hundred loads wow and and that's on narcotics yeah that's what narcotics at that time it was cocaine and methamphetamies and when it comes to the U.S. currency

you don't see major seizures you we could I could search major bulk U.S. currency seizures across the United States and you're not going to see none they're there they're far too little and we're talking about

you know there's being tractor trailers that are being filled with U.S. currency and transported back to Mexico. Is that the, and I asked you that a minute ago, but I didn't hear the answer yet. Is that the mechanism, filled tracker, Taylor's full of cash, and go south? Yes, for the most part, because they, you know, basically drug cartels are going to exploit anything that they know is not basically looked at, like, by law enforcement. There's so many tractor traders that are going across the border that they're going across the border that they feel like, you know, they're taking chances

and their risks are paying off because they're, you don't see the, the, the large loads of money, um, being seized. And, and I think is this a logistical, is this a logistical challenge? I mean, loading a tractor trailer is a thing. It takes manpower, um, plotting out routes, you know, picking border crossings.

Is this a sophisticated logistical challenge or it's, to your point, cowboy up, loaded up, nobody's checking. We're going to get the money. South. No, no, there's planning. Every load is planned. Every load is as a well thought out, you know, plan, but it's a routine. If it continues to work, it continues to function, they continue to actually just do it the next day and do it the next day. So then it becomes like a routine, you know. But it's not, you know, when it crosses the border, they know that,

that, you know, there's a risk. That when you're crossing the border, there's a, the chance that they might not make it across, but I think that the estimation of how many drugs are coming into the country are underestimated. I don't think that the government is understands or is giving a real estimation of how much drugs are being actually transported and imported into the country. I think that's, you know, it's, it should be multiplied by at least 30%. Really? Let's talk about that for a minute.

If you had to guess, if you were making a pie chart, right, of revenue to the Mexican drug cartels, like, give me your guess, and it may not be a guess, I'm sure at one time you would have known for sure. You may still, cocaine, methamphetamine, fentanyl, human trafficking across the border. Like, give me the breakdown you think on revenue to the Mexican drug cartels. well in terms of revenue i want to make it clear mexican drug cartels there's a word drug um their primary revenue is going to be drug trafficking it's going to be um the most profitable business is going to be cocaine which i think that the man is actually uh multiplied uh since i was

actually uh in the business um by 30 40 percent um methamphetamies um you know that my enemies right now, it's an all-time high, it's a big demand for them, and you see it with so many seizures across the country. And then it'll be fentanyl. But the amounts of drugs, just imagine that when I was working directly with the Senegal cartel and working with El Chappo Guzman, El Mio Zambada, and now the deceased head of the Beltran Lava cartel, Arturo-Belva, on average, they were bringing in anywhere from, you know, 60 to 75 tons of cocaine each month. And I'm talking about these three organizations. Just to imagine that now the consumption of cocaine has risen, the demand has risen by 30%.

And these are just large drug trafficking organizations. So the volume of drugs that comes across the border is very underestimated. It's mind-boggling. How about that? So it's interesting that you tell me that cocaine is still number one because it gets the least headlines, I would say, at this point. A couple quick questions. Heroin falling off the map. Are they still bringing in heroin?

Heroin, I know, is now it's like made in Turkey and Afghanistan and places like that. But it's still got to make its way into America. Is it not coming through Mexico? It does, but Mexican drug cartels has shifted to synthetic drugs. Right now, the demand of Mexican heroin isn't there anymore because of fentanyl. So it's just replaced. Okay. Mexican drug cartels are going to, you know, they act as logistic companies.

So they'll, you know, work with any drug that's in demand. So let's go to fentanyl now. When you're bringing fentanyl over, it's already been pressed into pill form in Mexico, right? So there's like pill factories in Mexico. They're pressing the fentanyl pills and then they bring it in in pill form. Yeah, they bring it in different forms. The demand for powder fentanyl is still high. So they'll bring it in powder form.

And what you're seeing is that, you know, the drug cartels are going to basically make the fentanyl, you know, and their business will be to actually sell it to, you know, other distributors who are working with the cartel. to basically, you know, allow them to get in the business, and they're the ones that will be pressing the pills to actually bring them back in, bring them into the country. And then the chemicals used to make the fentanyl pills or powder, that's coming from China, correct? So that's being imported from China into Porto Vallarta

or wherever in the Mexican coast, and then it's manufactured into the recreational form of fentanyl? Yeah, their primary source is going to be that for precursors is going to be China, India and as a recently Canada. Canada. Precursors?

Yes. Canada for... Explain that to me. So precursors are coming down from Canada through what? Like Vancouver Port, down to Mexico? And then they turn into fentanyl?

Yes. They use different ports. So precursors were many times, even when it came to Memet of Enemites. The precursors to to crystal meth was being brought from Canada into the United States, into Mexico. And the same goes for some precursors of fentanyl.

As you've seen recently, there's been some headlines where they actually found fentanyl making laboratories in Canada. I think it's not as common. But, yeah, for whatever reason, Canada's, their gas supply of these precursors that Mexican drug rights basically need to make fence on which by the way these precursors

are in the Western world at least I would think pretty well tracked you know what I mean like the reason we think so much can get through from China and India is the corruption of those governments who are essentially complicit in letting those companies ship it to Mexico with full knowledge of what it's going to be done with those precursors

Canada though I'm having trouble making sense of that like how that's being manufactured the precursor in canada and then shipped out like i mean i could i guess it's all black market right like so they're breaking the law for the minute they make it to the minute they ship it out but i just am surprised it's not more well tracked in canada yeah well a lot of these precursors now um it's basically they're legal uh uh these chemistry is evolving for for for the drug cartels. You have chemists working on different, you know, precursors to make these substances, and they're legal.

So they're hard to keep track of. They might be a little bit harder to get. And that basically brings, you know, different people into the business because they could get, you know, make a nice profit for these substances that, you know, that are basically legal in the market and are used to make illegal substances. how much is human trafficking how important is it as a part of the business it gets a lot of headlines it gets a lot of headlines on fox i'm curious from the cartel perspective how important human trafficking is to the business from a cartel perspective from my perspective

from my knowledge and experience um drug cartels focus their their their trade on drugs human traffickers, you know, basically will pay a rent fee, basically, to basically function or work out of a port or a port of entry. But that's not their primary resource. I don't, it's not important to them. It's not important when they're making billions of dollars, you know, transporting illegal drugs. Well, here's a question, Nen, Jay. Why are they letting, are, am I, if the way I'm

read you is correct you said are human trafficking organizations almost subsidiaries to the cartels are not directly part of the cartels but they're renting the logistic path of the cartel to get the people through is that is that a right way to characterize it yes they work on their own they work at their own entity with their own routes and what basically happens is whoever you know is in charge of that drug you know human trafficking organization they would pay a rent right basically a fee to be at these port of entries that cartels could actually control. Okay. Well, here's the question.

Why? Why would the cartels do this for what amounts to a little chunk of business to your point, but generates a ton of negative headlines and is now drawn the ire of the American government? Most of the time, it's basically because the Joe cartels have. basically different managers right plaza bosses and basically sometimes the cartels you know the main you know cartels don't want to have to pay them out of their pocket so basically it's like you're in charge that's your area and you could you know basically do what you want and it comes back yes because they are able to make money you know it's not going to be the the same amount

money but everything's a business everything's about you know the almighty dollar how much money they can make and and that's why um um you see that you see that you these organizations are basically finding new ways to basically bring illegals into the country. And that's one thing is I was surprised that, you know, for the last, you know, the Biden administration that the cartels are actually allowing, you know, so much focus to be at the border. But it also was kind of good for them because they used it as a tactic. They sent so many illegals at certain times across the border that makes, you know, keeps

custom border patrol busy and where they're able to actually. you know, import their drugs, you know, untouched. Right. Right. Flood the zone. Drugs go in somewhere else or buried inside of it. I get that. Yes.

I did a study. I just researching that, you know, in the Biden administration, in ports like, you know, McCallon in the southern Texas and the Valley, Texas, part of Texas, their seizures were down because they're being so busy dealing with, you know, The alien smuggling is that their drug seizures were down.

So here we are at basically a war with fentanyl. Yet most custom border patrol agents or law enforcement are dealing with, you know, immigrants. So they use that as a tactic to get all their loads across. And you could just look up statistics. And you'll see that the, you know, drug seizures were basically at an all-time low. What do you think the responses of the cartels to the change in American leadership, though? So, like, this goes back to the hierarchy of the cartel. If there were a hierarchy of the cartel, a clear designation of leadership that there was control all the way down.

And I get you, like on the plaza bosses, they have some of their own autonomy and all that. I would think a cartel boss would be like, hey, we got to dial back the human trafficking now with Trump because we don't want to deal with a military presence cracking down on us. But I get it under the previous administration, flood it. I'm just curious what you think the cartel reaction is now to Trump and a new approach at the border. You know what? I would think that they'd be thinking the same thing. They keep up with politics. And I think it's going to take one real operation for them to see that the United States is not, you know, going to give in or is playing around.

And for them to basically say, okay, you know what, we have to change some things around because right now they understand that it's still politics. They understand that it could be just words. But they are listening. As you could tell you, you know, in recent years you see reports where, you know, even Chappos Sons were saying, well, we're not going to make Fence on anymore because they hear the pressure of the DEA on them, you know, in terms of fence on. They only do that because they are fearful, you know, of what could happen. It might not seem like it, but they are. But I think one operation, one, you know, big move by the United States government to show them that, you know, the United States is basically going to secure the border and it's going to, you know, wants to stop human trafficking, and I think that they'll get the message.

What is that kind of operation? Like, what, so I hear you, they're measuring words right now. They're trying to see if it's all talk. If they are punished in some way or take a big hit, they may recalculate, they may stop producing as much fentanyl, whatever it may be, right? Maybe they'll stop trafficking people, whatever it may be. What would get their attention? What kind of operation?

Well, for sure, a military operation and going after some of the heads of these cartels. In Mexico. In Mexico. The border states are border states, but they're mostly controlled. They're going to be controlled by a bigger drug cartel that had more inland, right? The Senadoo cartel, you know, the Halisca cartel. But I think if they were to see that the Americans taking that approach because of the fence out, because of the human trafficking.

Then the persons who, you know, the people who are actually, you know, in charge are going to take notice and they're going to want to just basically calm the waters, right? And basically subside to whatever, you know, they have to do to make sure that they don't go to jail or they don't get killed. It's going to take some time. I don't think it will stop, you know, drug trafficking because it's a business. Oh, they're just trying to, you know, adapt and find better ways. but probably more, you know, safer ways or basically find a way to to still smuggle drugs without causing so much attention.

I have a few more places I want to go with you, Jay. I appreciate the amount of time you're giving me. I could probably do this for three hours. I'm so fascinated. I'm not going to do it for three hours. So you don't have to wear that mask for three hours. But Trump designating the Mexican drug cartels and he laid out about eight of them, I believe, as foreign terrorist organizations, would theoretically now give him license to use a military, an American military operation in Mexico. From what I just heard from you, an operation like that that targeted the head of one or two or three organizations, you think would send a message that would then make the message that would then make the necessary.

next generation of leaders calm the waters. Is there any argument, though, that that kind of operation deep within Mexico with American military could begin to create a Vietnam type situation for America like, oh, no, the cartels would fight back and this is going to be terrible, you know, perhaps even on the American side of the border? This is just my point of view. I don't think that they fight back. Not in a way where you think it's going to be Vietnam. I think the Mexican people want this. They're the ones that actually suffer to the violence, suffer to these drug cartels basically, you know, owning them, right? You know, basically running havoc in these communities.

And I think that they suffer the most. And I think they're the ones that could benefit the most from this. So I don't think that they fight, you know, get together and fight back. I think that, you know, again, these are all going to be independent organization, independent drug cartels, right? it's basically they exist because of one person for their own benefit right for their own profits for and you take that person out yeah there's going to be someone that's going to want to take their place but they're not going to be working conjunction with each other uh you know most you know every time there's an issue it's like that's your problem not mine um and and you would see them fight

you know you see them fight with the mexican government you they're violent because um they don't respect the Mexican government because they feel like we could get away with it. Do you think, so like the Mexican president has kind of suggested, don't you dare, right? Don't you dare think about coming to Mexico and conducting an operation? Is there a great amount of, you think among the Mexican people, would that be seen as a violation of their sovereignty or would they welcome it like you're saying? And what we're actually hearing from the Mexican government is corruption. you know what well i would love to hear that being talked about a little bit more

stating that when you know the president when president trump talks about designated these drug cartels at a terrorist organization he's talking about criminals he's not talking about mexican citizens and i think that right when i hear president shan well actually speak it's almost like she's speaking about mexico and i think that that's the biggest issue that it's not mexico it's the drug cartels in mexico And I don't, I'm not thinking about an invasion. I'm thinking of a collaborative effort between Mexico and the United States to basically have an impact. And I think the who would benefit more than the Mexican people and the Mexican government.

But the problem with collaboration is always, are you dealing with somebody corrupt on the Mexican side? Now that's, I mean, I keep up with Mexican politics. And I think that's been the push. You know, you have the PAN party, the PAN party. you're actually pushing, saying, you know, telling the president, like, why are you being so, you know, defensive about getting help when we're the ones dealing with the issue? And it does, you know, scream out corruption. It does seem like they're trying to protect these criminals.

And sadly, I was one of those criminals at one time, and it worked in our favor. And I think that there should be messages sent to the Mexican citizens, that this is not about regular citizens. about the United States invading Mexico to come after citizens. It's about going after criminals that are basically causing so many deaths in Mexico and the United States, right, with illegal narcotic sales. Okay, a couple quick questions. The border, right? We focus on the border here. Is it conquerable, Jay? Like, they're going to build tunnels. The argument is you build a 12-foot fence. They're going to build a 14-foot ladder. They're sophisticated already in how they're coming across the border.

they're using the roads and the ports of entry. Like, is it possible to shut down that border from drug flow? Okay, sure. So I have my own personal insights. This is from me actually being one of the most successful drug trafficking organizations in the United States at one time for many years. I believe that it is. I believe that you need more resources.

You know, I go around the country talking to law enforcement, you know, giving me my conferences. They need resources. they need technology. And I think a better understanding. And every time I've seen an investigation going on in inner cities, I'm always, you know, to me, to someone who's been, you know, knows firsthand and it has firsthand experience and knowledge,

and we focus on 100 miles, within 100 miles of every border in the United States and invest resources, technology, manpower. In those hundred, within those hundred miles of every border, we'll have a better result than actually sending thousands of investigators to prosecute cases in bigger cities.

The drugs have to be transported. They have to be imported. So if a custom border patrol gets beaten by a tunnel, they still have to travel. They still have to get on the United States highways and travel. Right now, across the country, you're seeing basically

interdiction teams being dissolved. To me, that's mind-boggling that. interdiction team in, basically in the war against fentanyl because of manpower. They don't have budgets. The law enforcement agencies don't have budgets to basically give training to go after some of these drugs that, you know, make it across the border. Another important issue is that I believe that there has to be something done with

partial companies. And this might sound different to you. This might seem a little bit new. But to me, the biggest drug distributors in the United States is going to be FedEx, UPS, and Amazon, along with the United States Postal Service. There's millions of packages being shipped across the country. I think collectively there's maybe 500 partial interdiction officers. It's basically a risk game, right? They send shipments of drugs across the countries, and these are the shipments that are going to.

to small towns and universities that, you know, college kids are actually, you know, buying these drugs, buying these pills. And you got rural places like Virginia. There's no Mexican, you know, hubs there. There's no drug cartels hubs in a state like Virginia. There's not a hub in a state like Montana. These drugs are basically being transported

to the partial companies. And they do little to nothing to combat drug trafficking. and it's a bad fact I'm not sure you know this but in my time as a drug trafficker we were to use owner operator

truck drivers owner operators semi-trucks and we would go on a loading board and we would look for any loads that was UPS, FedEx, any type of Amazon loads because law enforcement are fearful of pulling that truck over because they might get in trouble by their superiors because the last thing they'd want is for FedEx or Amazon

or someone to call a senator or legislator and say, you know what, they're stopping my shipment. So basically, they're guaranteed that they're not going to be pulled over. And I think the American public don't realize that. um collectively i think that there's more that could be done uh um it's going to be a business and there's going to be different people that are going to try to get into a business and it's not always just mexican you know drug cartels in in america there's way more drug distributors more

drug uh traffickers than in mexico and and they're american just like i was you know um and just like many people in my case and i think that's shifting the focus a little bit to see what we could actually do in the United States and putting some pressure on some of these partial companies to invest in interdiction, you know, with technology as well as, and better training for officers in the roads and better and more teams, I think, could have a definitely impact and in the United States against, you know, with the United States against the war on drugs. Jay, how much money were you making a year when you were distributing in Chicago for Sinaloa? All right. Well, you're making me nervous here.

Why? You know what? I use my life as an example. This is the reality. I know many people think that drug traffickers are supposed to look a certain way. I get that all the time. Like, you don't look like a cartel member. And I'm, you know, my question is like, well, how am I supposed to look?

It's a business. We're going to come in different forms, right? It could be your neighbor, we always say. It could be anyone because of the profits, because of how, lucrative it is. You know, from 2001, from 2000 to 2001, and, you know, every year I, my profits increased, but there's a times where I could have made, you know, on a slow month, $3 million a month, and there was times where I could have made, you know, on a good month, $10 million a month, profit. I'm not, you know.

$10 million a month in profit. So you're, you were somewhere between 50 and $120 million. dollars a year type of situation just for you or you and your brother? For me and my brother. Okay. That's profit. That's not supporting your organization. That's just for you and your brother. It was profit and then, you know, because it's the drug trade, you know, when losses come, you know, you have to pay for losses.

But overall, we could make anywhere between, you know. What do you put that kind of cash? I think this is where Mark was probably phased. a good role. And this where I think that it's important. For my brother and I, because we were working with a drug or, you know, drug cartel, a violent one, and we've been on the other side of the violence, we always felt like we could make all the money, but we, it was never ours because one bad day, you know, and your life is at stake. If I receive a shipment, you know, I'm receiving a shipment of $100 million a month, you know, I got to make sure that I always have that money,

you know, to pay, you know, these cartel bosses, because if you don't, you don't have the money to pay, you pay with your life. If you don't pay for your family pays for it. What are we talking about? Storage units? Cossets. What are we talking about? Usually, uh, what, you know, big cartel bosses will do is basically grab containerships, chipping containers and fix them up with you know ventilation systems and dig them on the ground

so and put your cash there and they put the cash there and you know basically were you more afraid were you living not large by the way were you living large at that time I mean you said you don't have all this cash on hand

but I can only assume you were living a pretty yes you know fancy life you know, well, we were, I think we were just used to it. My brother and I would always say that we didn't think we were living the way we should be living. But it was a very lucrative life, again, to us, right? There's a time, you know, I was young. I started off at the age of 17.

I turned myself in at the age of 27. So, yeah, we had many years to basically, you know, waste money on ridiculous things and stupid things that, you know, We regretted later on. Were you more afraid of violence from above or from below? Were you more afraid of violence from Sinola? Or were you were from the street gangs who wanted to replace you? Well, I definitely feel like Chicago, growing up in the South of Chicago, it prepared me for Senaloa. Again, Chicago basically being, you know, like a playground compared to Mexico.

But it's always going to be, to me, you know, in Chicago, of course, it was the gangs that target you. But it's always going to be the people closest to you, your friends, you know, those close to, you know, those people within your organization. And in Mexico, you know, dealing with the Senegal-a-Cartal, I lived in fear. One bad move, one bad phrase. you say the wrong thing, you know, you speak to the wrong person that they might, that they could find it like a betrayal or get mad at you. And that's your life. Um, so basically, you know, my brother and I like to say is that we live with a, you know, gun pointed at our head each and every day. And people always ask like, you know, why did we decide to walk away? And it said,

because it wasn't worth it. You know, I could sit here and talk to you about the money that was made but the losses that came with the business the losses that came to to to me and my family um i feel like what losses violence you know i probably i you know just me and my brother i think collectively we we paid over 12 million dollars in ransoms well of kidnappings just just to give you an understanding like you know i would you know take up another a couple hours of your time for me to here and talk to about all those sufferings that came with this life. And I just want to just make it a point that, you know, I grew up in the drug trade, you know. I didn't know what I knew.

And even to this day, it's hard for me to sometimes even explain to you what's in my mind because it's natural to me. It's like walking. I felt like I made the choice. Me and my brother made the choice to get into drug trafficking. Of course, we could never imagine that it was going to lead to, you know, this. big drug trafficking empire, but once we were involved, once we were, you know, at the top, I think that we realized that it wasn't worth it, you know? It wasn't who we were. And it came

with a lot of suffering. And my brother and I made that choice to basically reach out to the United States government and cooperate. And we had to risk our life. Were you violent? You know, a lot of guys like you, Jay, I mean, you have to protect the position that you're in. Somebody's always coming at it. I would only assume, and it's reinforced by the movies, that you would have had to embrace violence. You know, well, I think that's very important.

You mentioned a lot of guys like me, and I want to make it clear. There weren't a lot of guys like me and my brother. For that reason, because we were not violent. My brother's organization was basically nonviolent. We have not one act of violence in our charges. And I think that that's what made us successful. we stood away from violence.

I could take a loss because I was able to, you know, pay for that loss. Instead of acting out in violence, you know, or pridefulness, right? We were targets. But overall, because we looked at it as a business, it's like, you know, we look at it. Like, I'd rather take that loss and make more money tomorrow than actually, you know, focus on retaliation. because we knew it was bad for business and also it wasn't who we were. It wasn't the way I was raised.

And I think that it's common because of the movies. It's common because of shows like narcos. You see violence. And I think that when you think about drug trafficking, the first thing you think about is violence because of movies like Scarfades. And especially

to the youth, when I speak to the youth, I know I might not look the part. I know I don't have the background of being on violent, you know, uh, individual and might not have that street credit. And I always explain, if you don't have my background, then you, you won't make it. Prisons are full with a bunch of failed drug traffickers that I actually follow the same recipe over and over again, you know, of violence and living that life. And it doesn't work. Um, it didn't work for me either.

And you testified against the cartel, so I'm only going to assume you did not go to prison, right jay otherwise i think if you'd gone to prison you may not be with his with us here today well um i received i turned myself in november of 2008 i was um incarcerated i received my my sentence in 2015 i was giving a 14 year sentence that i completed in federal prison i got a 14 year um sentence for cooperating and at that at that time uh my brother and i became i I think the most valuable informants in terms of a drug case in U.S. history. But you were 14 years in the federal prison? Yes, sir.

And nobody tried to take you out, or did they try to take you out? The United States did a good job at putting us in certain situations that allowed us to be protected. They do a good job at making sure that they protect their witnesses. And I'm grateful for that, that they were. that the government actually kept us safe. Well, Jay, what a fascinating conversation, man. Again, I could probably go on and on and on because I'm just so curious about it.

We covered a lot of ground in one hour, and I appreciate you sitting with that mask and those sunglasses on for an hour to answer the questions that I fire at you. Yeah, no, thank you for having me. I appreciate to me. I think it's important. I do these interviews because I think

my knowledge and experiences could be beneficial, especially today and work in Benson and drug trafficking. So I think so too. Yeah. Yeah, hope to talk to you again, Jay. I really appreciate it. Margarito J. Flores, Jr., here on The Wheelcane Show. Thanks, Jay.

Thank you. All right. Long episode, but I'm a slave to OCD. We have one more segment to go. And that is going to answer the question of which president am I, a quiz next on the Will Cain Show. This is Jimmy Fala, inviting you to join me for Fox Across America, where we'll discuss every single one of the Democrats' dumb ideas. Just kidding. It's only a three-hour show.

Listen live at noon Eastern or get the podcast at foxacrossamerica.com. From the Fox News Podcasts Network. Hey there, it's me, Kennedy. make sure to check out my podcast Kennedy saves the world it is five days a week every week download and listen at foxnewspodcast.com or wherever you listen to your favorite podcast it's the will kane show streaming live at fox news.com on the Fox News YouTube channel on the Fox News Facebook page.

Hey, if you're new and I know many of you are because I think we're almost up to 200,000 on this episode already on Facebook, hit subscribe to come back every day. And if you're new, and you just saw us with the Margarita J. Flores interview of the Sinaloa Cartel, we hope you'll subscribe on Apple, Spotify,

hang out with us every day. Pick your medium, whatever you want, you know, Apple, Spotify, YouTube, Facebook. Just come in. Be a member of our community. Be a member of the Wallitia. Nice. That's an hour episode, hour and a half, and I don't even care. Like, I was so fascinated. That's great. I think he got better as it kept going. You think so? I think I hit everything I wanted to hit. I take pride in being able to, like, I don't have a single note in front of me, not one, you know, of what I was going to ask him. I tried to take pride in remembering something and going, we'll come back to that and chasing whatever he's on.

The weave. I think I The weave But I think I have a form of conversational OCD where I need to check all those boxes And I can remember them I think I got it all I don't know if I left huge meat

On the bone I mean Fascinating From geopolitics To what's going on at the border To Trump And the Designate him as

Terrorist organizations And what that could do To his own personal life I'm just I don't know man I find that Character. So fascinating. But two days, you said it's kind of controversial among the Walletia?

Yeah, well, there's people in the chat that are kind of saying, you know, how can you trust this guy? What does he know? You know, maybe he's like faking it. And then a lot of people are really interested in hearing the inside of it because it's not something you hear about all the time. And then some people were like... Why wouldn't you? I know. Some people were also saying, why is he wearing a mask?

It's 2025. That really throws people off. They thought he was wearing a mask for coat. Big COVID guy. Big Fauci. Big fan of Fauci. I was dying. A lot of people on TV when I had him on TV were mad at me like I exposed his identity because his pictures behind that. That's where I started the interview. I'm like, guys, like we can just add this up together. Like, he's in witness protection. He looks different than his pictures. Cartel knows who he is. It's just a matter of where he is and what he looks like

today. I thought he was incredibly candid. And I did try to press him. Like, I mean, the only thing thing I didn't ask him was do you have regrets because you flooded the American market and American children full of cocaine at the very least, whatever else he brought in. I didn't ask him that one of the reasons why is, well, A, we'd gone for an hour. B, I asked him about violence. I was surprised by his answer. And I thought he, I thought he would have to address some accountability when it came to violence. But see, I think that his regret and his penance is implied. I think it's almost implied by what he's doing now where he's founded this thing from what is it from kingpin to educator he clearly has regrets i don't know if his regrets are only personal like it's a

bad life he said i feared for my life it's not worth it or the impact he had on society but i almost feel like it's implied that that that he regrets that life go ahead two days yeah there was i think there's a quote from a drug lord or something i've read that said if americans wanted only chocolate i'd sell them chocolate, but they want drugs, so I sell them drugs. You know? That doesn't absolve them. No, of course not. But that's just kind of how they look at it. You know what I mean? It's just, they're providing a service.

It is horrible thing to do, and, you know, people shouldn't take drugs, but they're taking advantage of an opportunity. And it's extremely violent and horrible, but, you know, it's a crazy way of life. Fascinating. I hope you guys enjoyed that hour with Margarito J. Flores, formerly of the Senaloa cartel in Chicago. All right, I want to hit a few fun things with us first. Some of the comments I see actually are regarding the interview we have coming up here in a little bit.

Stacey Toomey says, I like Kevin Costner. He doesn't pretend to be, he doesn't pretend to like everything. He can be alone. And John Cammer says, Kevin Costner is one of my favorite actors. He's not one of these goofy libs that are all up there in the hills. Well, I sat down with Kevin Costor for 13 minutes for his news special. Yosemite, Yellowstone to Yosemite up at Fox Nation. And here's a little bit about the series in my conversation with Kevin Costner.

Why this park and this moment and these men for you, Kevin? Well, we did, you know, we did one on Yellowstone itself, the national parks. And while we all enjoy them, very rarely do we actually understand how they came to be. And when you think about things in life, it's like, are we ever going to make a difference in our life? I mean, I ask myself that. Everybody does. I mean, there's 8 billion of us on this planet now. What do we do?

But it is a story about how men and women can really make a difference through a force of will. And we saw that in Yellowstone. And we saw it. He lays out in Yosemite with Teddy Roosevelt and John Muir. That's what he talks about, forming these national parks, what it took, a three-day camping trip, Teddy Roosevelt along with John Muir, to help create Yosemite. I liked Kevin. I found him under really difficult situations, meaning huge tech troubles, to come off really well.

In fact, one of the comments I saw, you guys said, nothing makes them matter than tech troubles. And I think we can all identify with that. Yeah, same. It's my life. It's the absolute worst. Here, Brandy says on YouTube, oh, as a non-tech person, I have zero patience for S-H-I-T that doesn't work. it's so true it's so true

and Costner was plagued by that in that interview and yet he was very gracious very gracious and connected with me as a person so I hope you'll check that out 4 o'clock on the Fox News channel everybody tune over to the Will Kane show 4 o'clock Eastern Time

okay let's take this quiz real quick together Tim Phil is this something we can do quickly a quiz which president am I I don't know if it's going to be quick There's nine questions it might be pretty quickly it might be six questions

there's a lot of options each one though there's a lot of words if you if you could pull it up on your phone and talk us through it I think we can get it done in five minutes here's what we're going to do since we've already gone an hour and a half today hour and 40 minutes I want you to give me a teaser question and then I want you to tell me how this assigns me a president and we'll do it tomorrow right here on the wheel cane show you want to do it Patrick I got in front of me do you go ahead yeah um one answer select one out of this it's your day off how are you you spending it riding through the countryside on horseback reading reflecting or writing in your journal tinkering with a new invention or discussing philosophy hosting a lively dinner party with friends and colleagues taking on an extreme outdoor adventure or competition watching a classic

movie enjoying the simple things in life that's the first those were all the options those are all the options those are all the options question like i mean if we're all being honest, we're watching a movie most of the time to answer that question. Like, now, that's not what I would choose if somebody said, hey, it's Saturday, I have all these things lined up for you. You don't have to plan them, Will. You know, it's outside your back door, whatever may be. There's a horse saddled up. You can go for a ride, or we have an extreme outdoor adventure. I pick that. But that's the thing about these kind of things. Like, I'm not going to lie.

I mean, that's my dream life and what I want. But I'm not alone. We all know we're choosing outside of the i know there's a lot of dudes out there that will tinker on a saturday and i'm not a tinkerer you know i'm not in the garage doing that stuff we're all doing some stupid movies or you know you're not sitting around talking philosophy you're not right you're not riding through the countryside and horseback i'm surprised speak for yourself so you wouldn't be thomas jefferson is what you're saying i wouldn't be okay that so if i chose extreme outdoor adventure which president am i starting through one question to push toward that's Reagan teddy roosevelt 100% and teddy teddy all right let's say what let's take the

whole quiz tomorrow i asked this question yesterday at 4 p.m on fox and it's because my guest clay Travis had this to say during a panel listen to this who is the most masculine democrat right now in america and there's mayor pete is that a gay joke no no mayor peter no Well, no, it's just that he's not particularly masculine. Nobody's like, oh, Mayor Pete, he's a badass. Chuck Schumer? What? Is anybody like, hey, you know, Chuck Schumer holding up an avocado and a beer to talk

about the Super Bowl? Is anybody like that trying to grill? Is anybody like, hey, that's a dude I want to hang out with? But Trump's like a grandpa. Well, hold on. Yeah. Trump took a bullet in his ear and immediately stood up and said, fight, fight, fight. Every man in America, and most of the women out here were impressed by that.

even if the women won't admit it. She's shaking her head strong. And second part of this, basically summing it up, Democrats for men are pussies. He nailed it. Oh, he did nail it. He was such a truth teller there, and he said it to their face.

That lady's trying to trap him. I think she's from the Atlantic. Is that a gay joke? Are you making a gay comment? No, I'm making a masculine comment. you know and he's right every step of the way and what's great about it is as the tension rises you can feel the tension rising from then he ratchets it up you know like it couldn't be more tense and he goes oh and by the way democrats are blank it's great it also is a good question

who is the most masculine democrat now i asked that yesterday So I have some responses from the audience, okay? Here are some of the names. Drop into the comments section right now. And I'm going to say the names that were forwarded to me, okay? I saw it in my comments on X. I saw it. I haven't, because this is brand new for you on YouTube and Facebook, so drop into the comments.

Here are the names that I've heard, okay? John Fetterman, Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton. Don't laugh. Josh Shapiro. Michelle Obama I think that's the names that were offered up I saw not singularly

not like a one-off that I saw multiple comments about the most masculine Democrat I have a few from the chat if you want there's a there's a Tim Walsh being thrown out there come on that's a joke

there's a Joe Biden being thrown out there there's a Bill Clinton being thrown out there. And I have to say, you might not like him, but Gavin Newsom is kind of manly in a way, if you're talking about manly. Not just okay.

Might actually be the answer. Yeah. Might actually be the answer. What's up, tinfoil? I got a couple Harold Ford Jr. The Fox News. Got a lot of Harold Ford. Forgot to mention that.

I got a lot of Harold Ford response. Almost doesn't even count. Good for Harold. Cuomo? Andrew Cuomo? Andrew, I think. Yeah, a little too masculine. Actually, I'd put Andrew above Gavin Newsom.

And I'd put Andrew Cuomo above Gavin Newsom. There were a couple I pulled from Grogh, which is actually interesting. Mark Kelly, retired U.S. Navy captain in the afternoon. Yeah, that's pretty cool. Ruben, Galeigh... Gallego. Gallego. Gallego.

Gallego. Former U.S. Marine in Iraq. Jason Crow was a U.S. Army Ranger, Braun Star in Afghanistan, and Pat Ryan, who was also a paratrooper with the U.S. Army. All right. I think Patrick Murphy was in. Patrick Murphy served in the military.

We gave these guys their credit. And I'm sure there are others. But I think it does serve Clay's point. Not easy. Not well-known. Not at the top of the names when you think of Democrats. Okay. We appreciate you hanging out with it so long here today on the Will Cain Show.

I think you should share that interview with Margarito J. Flores with everyone you know who's interested in the Mexican drug cartels. I think that was unique content that really delved deep, enjoyed our curiosity. So I hope you share it with your friends and bring some new members into the Willis Show. I will see you at 4 o'clock today on the Fox News Channel. Same time, same place right here tomorrow for the Will Cain Show. Listen ad-free with a Fox News podcast plus subscription on Apple Podcasts. And Amazon Prime members can listen to this show ad-free on the Amazon music app. It is time to take the quiz.

It's five questions in less than five minutes. We ask people on the streets of New York City to play along. Let's see how you do. Take the quiz every day at the quiz. then come back here to see how you did. Thank you for taking the quiz.