Will Cain Country - The NBA’s New World Order: Parity, Windows Over Dynasties, and Cooper Flagg's Future Basketball Domination (ft. Chris Mannix)

Episode Date: May 23, 2025

On this edition of The Will Cain Show’s Friday sports episode, Will is joined by 'Sports Illustrated' Senior Writer and NBA Analyst, Chris Mannix to break down the evolving landscape of the NBA, the rise of parity, and whether the Oklahoma City Thunder are building a quiet dynasty. Will and Mannix also dive into the Mavericks’ shocking lottery win and what Cooper Flagg’s arrival could mean for Dallas’s future. They debate the long-term ceiling of Flagg, whether he'd be worth trading for a proven star like Giannis Antetokounmpo, and how today's NBA front offices are starting to think in windows, not dynasties. They finish it all off with an expert level NBA trivia quiz that will have you questioning your knowledge of the Association. Can you do better than Will and Mannix? Tell Will what you thought about this podcast by emailing [e-mail] Subscribe to The Will Cain Show on YouTube here: Watch The Will Cain Show! Follow Will on Twitter: @WillCain Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For a limited time at McDonald's, enjoy the tasty breakfast trio. Your choice of chicken or sausage McMuffin or McGrittles with a hash brown and a small iced coffee for $5.5 plus tax. Available until 11 a.m. at participating McDonald's restaurants. Price excludes flavored iced coffee and delivery. Is Parody here to stay in the NBA or are the Oakland City fun? a dynasty. How does Cooper flag fit with the Dallas Mavericks? What happens with Janus onto Ticompo? And who wins the Eastern and Western Conference Finals? Plus a quiz with Sports Illustrates, Chris Manning's. It's the Will Kane Show normally streaming live every

Monday through Thursday at 12 o'clock Eastern time. Fox News.com, Fox News YouTube channel, and Fox News Facebook page. Hit subscribe at Apple or on Spotify, and you'll always have access. Two episodes like this one. can on sports today we're hanging out with nbc sports boston nbae analyst in town in new york in studio covering the new york nix and indiana pacer he's also a senior writer at sports illustrated we talk about everything under the sun when it comes to team building and superstars in the mb a and break down the conference finals plus our boy two days gives us a quiz how do i not get smoked by chris manix

Chris, so happy to have you here. Thanks for coming in the studio in New York. It's like the NBA has done it. They have done something that has alluded them for several decades. And that appears right now, Manix, like they have achieved parity. You don't know year in, year out, who's going to win the championship. And you can't say whoever wins it this year is going to be the team that's the frontrunner to win it all next year. They've done it.

Yeah, this is going to be the seventh consecutive season where there will be a new NBA champion crown. That has never happened in league history. And they have done it. They have achieved what they look at as NFL level parity. Like for decades now, dating back to David Stern's stewardship of the NBA as commissioner, they have strove for this type of parity. Super teams have been great for ratings, whether it's the Lakers in the early odds. the Miami Heat, the Golden State Warriors, they do tremendous ratings.

But the NBA's long believed that it's not good for the overall health of the league to have the outcome of a season be a foregone conclusion. So they have been building towards this for really 20, 25 years. I mean, it's now, I think the third CBA that they're on, that they've kind of perfected the math where you just can't build a team by spending more money than everybody else. You can't keep guys that you acquire simply because you're able to afford them more than some of the other teams in the NBA.

You have to be shrewd. You have to be great when it comes to drafting. And even that doesn't guarantee really anything. As you've seen, you can be one injury away from having to reboot and kind of go back to the drawing board. So yeah, this is what the NBA wanted. Like if we wind up getting Oklahoma City against Indiana in the finals, I shudder at what those ratings nationally. could be, but this is what the NBA wanted, and this is what they're going to get.

So that's, that's, so I spent years on ESPN devising ways, brainstorming how the NBA could become less predictable. To your point, that's the word you want to avoid. That's the concept that's a killer, predictability. And with 82 games and seven game series in the playoffs, you get a measure of predictability that outpaces every other league, including hockey, which has a similar format. But it's way more unpredictable. But that being said, you know, Colin Coward always has this take.

And I think he's right. And he talks about it when it comes to the NCAA tournament. You say you like Cinderella. You say you like these big runs. But ratings suggest you really don't. In the end, you want Duke versus North Carolina in the final of NCAA tournament. And the NBA is going to put that to the test now. You say you don't like super teams.

But do you really watch Oklahoma City versus Indiana? I think it's going to be, there are going to be some interesting numbers that come out of it. And I think the NBA will take a short-term hit. It's certainly debatable whether or not that is good for the overall health of the NBA. Because by and large, with some ebbs and flows, the NB has been growing as a business. Even as TV ratings have declined, the NBA, like all other live sports properties, has been able to cash in with big deals. I mean, they just did an 11-year, $77 billion deal with Amazon, NBC Sports, ABC, and ESPN.

So they're thriving as a business property. But we're going to see, like, this year, years to come, like, can we stomach, you know, three of the four teams in the final four like we have right now being a small market team? The NBA believes if you're like the NFL, you're going to grow in some ways like the NFL. If you have parity, if you have unpredictability, if you have the playoff starting, and let's say half the teams of the full 16 team field believing they have a legitimate chance to win a championship, that is going to help grow the game more than the previous iterations of it did. Do you think that's true, by the way? I think it's probably true. I mean, we'll get into the two individual conference finals in just a moment, but do you think those teams were delusional and whoever they may have been?

you know, in the West, Thunder, Wolves, I don't know who else going into the playoffs, thought they had a real shot. But I think the Nuggets, I don't think they were irrational, right? I think that's probably true. Half the 16 field team had a real shot to win the title. 100%.

Now, we don't need to go down the list, but certainly top four, maybe even top five in each conference. The Clippers obviously went into the postseason. You could even go even deeper this year because the way the Warriors made a run at the end of the season, Just the bottom half of each playoff bracket was a lot stronger, especially in the Western Conference that it has before.

Like, just to put a button on this, like one thing I really love about the way that the NBA is set up right now is that while we haven't seen kind of a new dynasty emerge, that's because these teams have not drafted well as well as they should have. Like, that's the secret sauce to building a multi-year winner in the NBA. 2021 Milwaukee Bucks win a championship looks like they've got a multi-year window. Among the reasons they have not been able to win another is that some of the draft picks they've made over the last four years have not panned out.

I mean, these are hard picks to hit on Will, but they're, you know, you've got a hit on the picks in the 20s, picks in the second round. Same thing with the Denver Nuggets. The Denver Nuggets, after they win a championship, they shed some salaries. Bruce Brown, Jeff Green in that first year after the title, the most recent year, Natavius Caldwell Pope, he defects and goes to Orlando. The young players that they drafted, that they have on that roster, the Julian Struthers, the Zeke Nogies, the Peyton Watson's, they have not been ready to step in

and play the roles of the guys they have been asked to replace. So you can build a multi-year winner in the NBA around two or three great players, but to sustain it, you've got to make sure that you're hitting on these late first, early second round draft picks. Do you think, Mannix, that gives any credence, and I don't want to spend much of time revisiting the topic that has dominated the mind of everyone in Dallas, but do you think that gives any credence at all to Nico Harrison's thought process or approach? Set aside what he thinks about Luca, right?

And set aside even how you feel about Luca, meaning, okay, we had him for another decade. That meant another title contention for a decade. Does he give any credence to Nico going, well, teams aren't building dynasties anymore. You're playing for one championship, one tight window run. Like maybe the Nuggets will wait and see, but like the Bucks. So he said, I'm looking at the next two to three years, and I get AD for the next two to three years, and I like the makeup of the team. What I'm wondering is, are teams looking shorter windows now? Instead of saying we're building something that could contend for 10 years, we're trying to load up instead to get that one championship.

championship in a league of parity. I think when you have a young superstar, you're not necessarily looking to build like a Steph Curry like eight-year championship window. You're looking to build multiple three- and four-year windows with some gap years maybe in between. I'll use San Antonio as an example. San Antonio grabs that second overall pick in the draft. That puts them in play to do a big deal like potentially one for Yannis Tendacumpo.

Now, if they go out and get Janice Tendacompo, just hypothetically, all of a sudden, get Janus, age 30, Dierin Fox, age 27, 28. You're looking at like a three or four year window while Victor Wenbanyama is in his early 20s to win a championship. And then after that, you're probably taking a gap year, maybe two, and building a new team around Victor Wimbabeyam. I think that's how it's changed. You're not looking at these long, you know, even Miami Heat,

four, they could have had four plus years. if LeBron had stayed down there, the Warriors where they're still, you know, competing for championships. I think those days are long gone. I think now you're looking at shorter windows. I will just to say this, there's nothing that justifies what Nico Harrison did. There's nothing whatsoever that justifies what Nico Harrison did. He traded a transcendent talent for a package that includes 33, 34-year-old Anthony Davis and one first drop back. There's no justifying that no matter what you say. I heard you with Ryan Rosillo, by the way.

And I was going to do this later in the conversation, but I have to follow it and just naturally where it goes. I heard you on Rosillo's show talking about the NBA draft lottery. So I'm going to ask you about Cooper Flagg in a second. But what was it like in the room? You were in the room with the lotto balls. So I just want to know, like, and I know that they have to stay quiet

and you can't be like overly exuberant as the lotto numbers come up. But when it came up Mavs for the number one, overall pick. How did the other execs in the room react? There was an audible gasp from people in the room, both media and executives alike. The Mavs rep in the room is their assistant GM. Matt Ricardy, I've known him for a long time. He used to work in Brooklyn with the Nets. And he honestly, talking to him afterwards, he didn't know how to react, right? Like, he just let slip like one loud clap in that moment because I didn't know whether he should kind of fist pump or just go hell yeah or however he was supposed to react he didn't really know but around the room

it really was back to back around the room everybody expresses shock that the Mavs with 1.8% chance get that first overall pick it wasn't that much different when San Antonio lands number two with the opportunity to draft that Dylan Harper or to make a big trade I know there was some and I talked to them afterwards some Western Conference executives that were there team officials that were looking around going, damn, how tough does our conference have to get? Like how, like we just saw two of the teams that had some of the worst records or in the lottery all of a sudden be put in a position to beef up their rosters to be contenders as early as next year and certainly for years to come. So there was a, there was a palpable, some palpable noise in the room,

some audible noise in the room when those balls came up. So I'm going to follow this train of thought now for a second. We've got the Eastern and Western Conference Finals we want to talk about. But I really like your formula. And I think it's right. And this, so I had started to think about this early on. Okay, now the Dallas Mavericks can draft Cooper Flag. And I entertained this idea for a minute, Mannix.

I'm like, okay, well, is that worth bringing Janus in? I'm a big, big, Janus guy. And I think he's a great human being. I think he's an incredible basketball player. and he's what, 30, 31, something like that. And I don't know how Yannis takes care of his body. And I don't know how his game ages because he hasn't been an incredible shooter like LeBron. But it's not unreasonable to say Yonis has another five to six years of being a top five player in the NBA.

And five to six years is a long time in the NBA. So I entertain the idea, do you trade essentially Cooper Flagg for Yonis? And I gravitate away from that as much as I like Yonis. And it's hard. You have to be careful because you gravitate away because everybody loves potential and everybody loves the excitement and everybody loves projection. And as great as Cooper Flagg is, he is still projection and Janus is a realized asset. You know what you're getting with Janus.

However, your formula for team building is what brought me back to, no, no, no, you draft Cooper Flag. Okay. You lock up your centerpiece, Victor Wimbun, Yama, Cooper Flag, whatever, whoever it may be, young. And you say, we got this guy for 10 years. years, hopefully. And you build three different championship iterations around him during that window, right? Not one super team, not unlike what the Spurs kind of did with Robinson, then Duncan.

And the team that wins theoretically or makes a run for his third title doesn't look a lot like the team that he was with in his first title. That's what brought me back to, no, no, no, you invest in Cooper Flag. Yeah, I wouldn't trade Cooper Flag for anything. I've spent the last few weeks around Cooper Flag for a story. I've talked to pretty much everyone that's been in his life over the last five or six years. This kid, I think, is a transcendent talent. Like, this kid, I think, is special. And I don't think that drafting him necessarily reduces your chances of winning a championship in the short term.

Because I think Cooper Flag is going to come in NBA ready. I mean, look at where he's been his last couple of stops. He goes to Mont Verde Academy in Florida, which is a basketball factory, and he leads them. Best player on that team, 33 and O record, arguably the greatest high school basketball team of all time. He goes to Duke, gets off to a little bit of a slow start, but takes off in the second half of the season. Average is 19, shoots 48% from the floor, 38% from 3. The last shot against Houston didn't go down, but he still got 27 points as a freshman. in a national semi-final game.

I don't think the learning curve for Cooper Flag in Dallas is going to be that long. I think he's going to have his stumbles early on, but I think when you get to the second half of this next season, he is going to be a contributing player at a pretty high level. Moreover, I would say it's like moreover. The Mavericks, like, yeah, do they want to win a championship next year? Hell yeah, absolutely. But their target, I think, is the 26-27 season.

That's year two of Cooper Flag when Kyrie Irving is presumably all the way back from this ACL injury that's going to keep him out for at least the first half of the season. They're going to have to cross their fingers a little bit and hope that Kyrie is still 85, 90 percent of the guy we saw last year. Hope that Anthony Davis is still 85, 90 percent of the guy we've seen the last couple of years. But I think that's their plan to go for year two Cooper Flag and have all these other veterans around them ready to win. Oh, let me play devil's advocate for a second. And I'm only doing it because this is how I reinforce my optimism by first addressing the

pessimism. Okay, quick question. Do you think Cooper Flagg's ceiling is a top five player in the NBA? Is his ceiling a top five player in the NBA? Yes, I think that's his ceiling. I don't think he's, like, if you, like, Webbenyama's ridiculous. It's like there are tears, right? Webbenyama, you go back to LeBron.

those two guys are on one level. I think Cooper Flagg, though, is right there on that next level where you are talking about top five, top 10 type of player who is a surefire Hall of Famer. Okay, so I think Luca is a top five players in the NBA. We're not talking about a Luca, and they're not like-for-like on what they play on the court, but ability to carry a team.

My suspicion is he's probably not quite Luca level on ability to carry a team, but this is why I wonder that and this is the devil's advocate in me. He's great, great, all around. But does he have, and I know people have asked this, does he have anything special? One thing, whatever it is, you know,

that is unstoppable when it matters in the last five minutes of a basketball game, right? Ability to put a team on his shoulders and say, you're not stopping whatever this is, whatever this move is, whatever my go-to is. And I don't know yet, and granted, he's 18, so we'll see when it comes. But I don't know what that is for such an all-around player with his body type,

you know, his position. I don't know what that one thing is for Cooper Flagg. I would say, look, this is not a tangible thing that you can point to at making an impact right away, but his mind is his greatest asset. He is considered by everybody I've talked to one of the most intelligent players that they've ever been around. Look, naturally, he's a prodigy. Like, he's the kid. You know what I think of.

When you say that, I mean, I'm going, okay. And I know, again, we don't, I'm not playing like for like, but what is the one thing for Yokic? It's his mind. Yeah. It's his vision. And you put that vision together and it means passing. It means organizing the team on offense.

It means shooting. All those things together. Now, that doesn't mean he has to be Yokic, but would you say, okay, yeah, that's kind of what I'm talking about, a guy who's mind is his, his vision. And therefore, it's a little bit. but is he a court general? I think he's getting there as a playmaker, and I think he can be that type of guy.

I mean, he's more athletic than Yokic, certainly, and if you want to make a comp, you're talking like, I've heard things from like Kauai Leonard to Jason Tatum, like he's kind of got a little bit of that in because he is, you know, for the Leonard comp, he has a pretty high level defensive player already, and he's got a pretty good bag of tools offensively.

But he's the kid, Will, that, you know, when he picks up anything, any sport, he's great at it, right? He's the quarterback on the football team coming up. He's the shortstop and the pitcher on the baseball team, the striker in soccer, and he's elite at all these things. Like, he's one of those kids that if he put his mind to any one of these sports, he'd probably be great at him. And I go back to a story that Brian Scalabrini told me a couple of weeks ago.

Scal, of course, in the Boston area, trains kids a lot. He got a call from Cooper Flagg's trainer back like four or five years ago now. Cooper was 13, 14 years old, and just kicking the crap out of every single player on the main basketball circuit. Now, that's not lofty praise yet because Maine, like Duncan Robinson is the most notable player to come out of Maine lately. You got to all the way back to the 80s to a guy named Jeff Turner to find the last guy drafted out of Maine. But he's kicking the crap at 14 years old out of college level players up in Maine. He comes down to one of Scal's camps, and Scal's guys are all D1 type of guys. These are our high-level young upperclassmen in high school, early college years.

And this kid comes in, 14 years old. And Scal was like, this kid just beat the bag out of everybody that was in my gym. And when we talk about his mind, like Scal is also one of the most cerebral players to play in the NBA in a while. Great basketball mind. Scal gave him a bunch of drills, a bunch of things that take players weeks, if not months, to ultimately master. He said Cooper Flagg masked him 24, 48 hours. Like that's how quickly information gets processed in his brain and he gets better at that. You kind of play that out to the NBA level where you have all these coaches, all these resources, all these assets of your disposal.

I can just imagine this kid getting with NBA coaches and within a very short period of time learning stuff that's going to make him an elite NBA player very quickly. Okay, one more question on this. How do you see, I don't know if you've spent time thinking about this yet, but how do you see, I don't know if you've spent time thinking about this yet, but how. How do you see him fitting with the assets that are already in Dallas? So I think Anthony Davis wants to play four. At times he's gotten that desire. At times he is not because he's like a really good five. But Cooper flags a bit of a four who could play three.

PJ Washington is there. They're deep at four or five. They've got lively and Gafford for now at five. So how do you get all these guys on the court? Do you think the Mavs will make a deal? and then could that deal be Anthony Davis, trade Anthony Davis? No, I don't, I know. Like, I think they're all in on this current group.

And I think even if they wanted to, they couldn't trade Anthony Davis now. Like, not after eight months removed or whatever it is, six months removed from trading Luca Donchich for a package center pieced by Anthony Davis. I think on paper, it looks like a really good fit. I think Cooper Flag is a three-four. I think he can play three. He's athletic enough to play three. He's defensively, that's where he's most advanced. advanced as a basketball player right now.

I think he's going to do well at the three position. AD, like you said, wants to play four, but he's going to slide over to five at times. And when he does, Cooper Flag can slide up to four and play that position in a small ball lineup. I also think that while Lively is locked in in Dallas, they love him down there. Having Cooper Flag and having PJ Washington gives you the opportunity to trade Daniel Gafford for something you need a little bit more.

Like right now, they need a point guard to, you know, replace Kyrie Irving and and help, you know, reinforce him when he gets back, you can go out there and look for a younger shooter that could potentially play minutes instead of Clay Thompson. Like this, Cooper Flagg unlocks a lot of things. Not mostly the stuff he can do on the court, but he gives Nico Harrison his staff some options to trade some of that front court depth

to get some stuff they need a little bit more. And is Gafford have real, he does, I think. I'm asking you, though, real trade value. Like, the Lakers would need a guy like him. Exactly. Like the Lakers would jump at an opportunity. I'm not so sure what they could give back in return. But when you have a springy, defensive-minded five men like Daniel Gafford,

you can get wing-depth. You can get guard depth back in return for him. I think that's going to turn into a real asset for Dallas. It's going to give them something. Like lamello ball? Like Austin Reeves? Yeah, we're probably close to the beat. I think even lower than Austin Reeves.

I think you're talking about a backup point guard maybe. Or somebody, and I'm just making this up as an example, like a campaign type, or we're seeing play in New York. somebody that can give you minutes at a position that's more of need. There isn't a need for Daniel Gafford with Cooper Flagg and PJ Washington there, not with lively, healthy, and Davis with the ability to slide up to the five against smaller teams. Okay, Will, do you think, what's going to happen with Janus? You know, every time I have a discussion with an opposing team executive about Janus,

and, like, trade proposals. I get more reasons why they don't work than why they do. Like, for example, like Oklahoma City, for example, I was of the belief that if they got knocked off in the second round against Denver, there might be a sense of urgency to go out and swing a big deal for Janus. Because even though the Thunder are really young, at some key positions, they're not super young. Like, Shea Gildas Alexander's in his mid-20s.

He's just hitting his prime. Lou Dort, same thing. Like, they, there was a need. to go and get somebody that could be a difference maker. That's obviously off the table now because they've advanced and they look like they're poised to go to the finals. But also because Janus, as people were telling me, like the Thunder don't really want a guy

that will take up 35% of their salary cap with all the money that Janus is going to command. Same thing with San Antonio. Like, among my thoughts was, hey, the Spurs, they could go out, make a deal for Janus. Put Janus opposite Webbenyama, opposite Deer and Fox. You could trade, you know, Kelden Johnson, bunch of draft picks, but then some people would say to me, well, like then all of a sudden

you're kind of creating a pretty short window or a shortish window for Webbenyama where he's after five years, maybe he's looking around going, where's my team? Like where's the team of the future? Then maybe he's a free agent and he's coming up for contract extension. It just makes things maybe a little bit more problematic. I think the bottom line is that Milwaukee will kick the tires on some deals this offseason. There's going to be a meeting between Janus and those front office officials in the coming weeks. I don't think a trade demand is going to come out of that, but I do think that there'll be some kind of meeting of the minds where the bucks feel comfortable going out and exploring

some trade options. I just don't know, Will, exactly what's out there right now. That makes sense. Like the Brooklyn Nets love to get their hands on Yannis. When I was in that lottery room, I could tell you, if the Brooklyn Nets had landed in that top four, there was some, they were going to make a run. There was some excitement within that organization about making a run at Yannis with the top four pick and some of the players that they have.

I don't know if they have the assets right now to go and do it, but I think there are going to be some exploratory talks between the bucks and teams about what kind of packages are really out there for Yannas. More of the Will Cain Show right after this. It is time to take the quiz. It's five questions in less than five minutes. We ask people on the streets of New York City to play along. Let's see how you do.

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Listen and follow now at Fox Truecrime.com. Welcome back to the Will Kane show. Okay, now I think this brings together the three things that perfect transition to conference finals. Because we've talked about parody and the lack of, it looks like, future dynasties in the NBA. about whether or not Oklahoma City would be interested in Yannis. Do you, the one great exception when I talk about parity, I think we all have to consider is Oklahoma City.

So this team looks set up to contend for a while. Now contending for a while and being a dynasty are two different things. That being said, their roster, their draft assets into the future and having a player like Shea Gildes-Alexander on your roster means we're going to have to deal with the thunder for a long time. Yeah, I think more than any other team, Oklahoma City is built to have a four or a five-year run where they're winning championships or competing for championships. And the biggest reason to go back to something we talked about at the top is that they hit

on these draft picks. They keep hitting. What was it? 2023, I believe it was, 23 or 22, NBA draft, 22 maybe, had two. All-Stars come out of it. One is Paolo Bencherro, who was the number one overall pick to Orlando, and the other is Jalen Williams, who went 12 to Oklahoma City, drafted out of Santa Clara. Nobody thought he was going to be this kind of player, except Sam Presti and the Thunder. He's a big reason why this team is in the conference finals right now. And as this team gets more expensive in the

coming years, look, you're not going to shed Shea Gildes-Alexander or Chet Holmgren or even Jalen Williams at this point. But if Lou Dort gets too expensive for this team, well, you've got Cason Wallace waiting in the rings as kind of Lou Dort light and ready to go. The Thunder have a kid, and I might write about this in the coming weeks. They've got a kid who hasn't played this year. Their lottery pick from last year named Nicola Topich. Remember that name because this kid was one of the best big guards in all of Europe. He is just a tremendous talent who is going to come in next year with a year of strengthening under his belt, of practice habits under his belt, and to be part of that rotation next year. The Thunder have consistently

hit on these mid to late first round draft picks, which has positioned them to have the ability to lose some guys because of the NBA salary cap structure, but have guys waiting in the wings ready to replace them. And I don't have it in front of me. They're sitting on a ton of draft capital as well for the foreseeable future. So if they're good at drafting and they've got all these picks, there's no reason to think they can't keep going. There's no reason to think that. Now I think at some point there'll be

a temptation to package a few of these picks, maybe go get a veteran. They've got some big contracts that could potentially trade as well. I say Hartstein's got a very movable contract that they decide to go in that direction. But right now, I mean one thing, when I talked to Oklahoma City officials

and I've been out there a bunch this year, like they believe that chemistry and continuity is one of the most important things to have in today's NBA. They point to what the Warriors have done over their time. The Celtics, only one championship to date, but they were banging on the door for years with that group. They believe the longer that they can keep the core of this team together, that's only going to benefit their chances of winning a championship in the long term.

So there will be an inevitability there with some of these salaries going to have to slash. But having guys that are not just ready to play, but have to. been in the system for years, like three, four years in that system ready to go. They believe that's going to make them really successful in the long term. All right. So they're up two oh on the Minnesota Timberwolves. They're just so well-rounded.

That's what everybody can, they play great defense. Yeah, you've got Shea Gilders, Alexander. What do you think? I have had my team play the Thunder before the Mavericks last year. and they won. But it's extremely frustrating to play the Thunder. And the foul calls the SGA gets. And I think he's had 14 and 15 free throw attempts over the first two games.

And he just, it's different than James Harden, but it reminds you of James Hardin in terms of it's just, we're going to lose at the foul line. Yeah. The Thunder would certainly argue doesn't get enough calls. I mean, I've had more of those text messages over this calendar year about, you know, with video clips of calls that Shea doesn't get and free throw disparity against Oklahoma City in a particular game. But I do agree that there are probably three or four free throw

attempts per game that Shea probably didn't need to get. The referees probably didn't need to blow the whistle. But you mentioned James Harden and he's he's a lot like that. He has great body control. He's able to, you know, sense when contact is coming and lean into it and help create some of that contact. And I don't know about you, but I don't put any of that on Shea. I mean, that's on the referees to not blow the whistle in those kind of situations. It's the same thing with Jalen Brunson in New York. I mean, he does a lot of that flopping and falling and things like that. I mean, if he's getting away with it and getting to the free throw line and in game one against the Pacers, Brunson went to the free throw line 14 times in that game. There was that one

clip that went viral of Brunson taking Aaron Neism's hand and slapping himself in the face with Kneesman's arm, using his arm to slap himself in the face. Whether it's Brunson or Shea, I don't necessarily put it on them. And I also don't think that's the reason that they're in this position that they're in. I mean, Shea's making a lot of shots without going to the free throw line. It's been said a lot, and it's true that if you take away all the free throw attempts that Shea took and all the free throw attempts from everybody else, Shea would still have led the NBA in scoring.

He'd still be the best score in the NBA without those free throw attempts. I think it goes far beyond that. They're a great defensive team. They're an excellent forcing turnovers team. They're a low turnover team on their end of the floor. I mean, they are just as complete as they get. If you're a Wolves executive or a Wolves fan and you look at this series, I mean, it'd be the second year in a row where you're one of the top seeds in the West.

You run into something that you can't seem to overcome. And you say, okay, well, Anthony Edwards is still going to develop and still carry us. but you've got to kind of come away from this. I don't know that your only lesson can be we ran into a better team. That's a fair lesson because Oklahoma City is really, really good. But you got to sit there and go at some point. What are we missing to get over the hump? Look, I'm of the opinion that this Wolves team is not as good as the one that made the conference finals a year ago.

They had some great draws in the first couple of rounds of this year's playoffs. The Lakers, who were obviously a flawed team, no matter how excited people were about the Lukach-Lebron pairing. Steph Curry goes out early in that series against Golden State. That created a wide open window for them to advance in the second round. I mean, they kind of had it easy, whereas Oklahoma City, they had to go through Denver. And look, Minnesota had to go through Denver last year. They had their trial by fire. But then they shook that team up.

They traded away a core piece in Carl Anthony Towns. And I believe and still believe that they took a step back. because of that. Julius Randall's been excellent in most of this postseason. He did lay an egg in game two, but I don't believe that Randall and DeVincenzo is better for this team than Carl Anthony Towns. What would also worry me, if I'm a Wolves fan, is that he got new ownership there. And I'm not so sure that Alex Rodriguez and Mark Lurie are going to be willing to swallow these giant tax bills that are coming in the years to come. So, I mean, we consider and have a conversation about need to upgrade.

If I'm a Wolfs fan, I'm terrified of downgrades. I'm terrified of losing a Nas Reid or having to trade, you know, a DeVincenzo. Like I'd just be afraid of seeing more pieces stripped away from this team because financially they believe they can't afford it. Let's take a quick break. In just a moment, we'll be back on the Will Kane show. I'm Janisteen. Join me every Sunday as I focus on stories of hope and people who are truly Rays of Sundance.

shine in their community and across the world. Listen and follow now at foxnewspodcast.com. Listen to the all-new Brett Bear podcast featuring Common Ground, in-depth talks with lawmakers from opposite sides of the aisle, along with all your Brett Bear favorites like his all-star panel and much more. Available now at Fox Newspodcasts.com or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to the Wilcane show. All right, over to the east, it's hard to know what to take away from game one of Pacers' nicks.

Let me tell you what you need to take away, Will, because I was in that building. Don't leave your press seat with three minutes to go and the Pacers down 14. That's exactly what I did. I left my press seat and went downstairs and looked like an idiot for doing that. Well, I'll give you a comp. Okay, I'm super dialed into hockey right now, Manix, because the Dallas Stars in the Western Conference Finals. And in game one, Edmonton dominated the first two periods. And then the stars explode in the third period and win the game going away.

That being said, the first two periods were concerning for me. Like, wow, the Oilers were really good. So over a seven-game series, what does this look like? Does it look like the first two periods or this explosion in the third? And I think that's a fair comp for the Eastern Conference finals. The Knicks were awesome up until, like you said, the last five, three minutes of the game. So over a seven-game series, do we get that incredible performance by the Pacers in overtime and the final minutes of the game?

Or do we get, you know, play the law of averages, if the Knicks play the way they play the most of that game, they're the better team. I think the Pacers are the better team. You know, look, the Knicks beat Boston and they beat them in short order. They deserve credit for that. But a lot of things went their way in that series.

And I'm not even talking about the Tatum injury because that series was basically a wrap even before that injury happened. But to be down 20 in two first two games in Boston and to be able to come back against the team like that, like that is just a perfect. storm of events for that to happen. And I think the Pacers are a particularly tough matchup for the Knicks. Not a lot of star power in New York, but the Pacers, with the way that they press,

this college-like way that they play, and the bodies that they can throw at Jalen Brunthes, the head of the snake, played a great game one, too, 43 points in game one. But over the course of a long series, I think the pressure of Aaron Neesmith and Andrew Nem, Hart and Ben Shepard and all the guys that the Pacers are going to throw. I think they had six guys at one point defend Jalen Brunson for at least one minute or more in that game one. I think that's going to wear him down. And then you start really needing to count on some of these other guys.

But all those same guys were giving incredibly were giving Indiana, especially Neesmith, obviously a lot on the offensive end. Can you count on those guys to do as much as they did offensively over a seven game series? No, I mean, look, Aaron Neesmith. six three-pointers out of his mind. Like that was, that was insane. And look, everything that the Pacers needed to go right

from made shots to challenges that were overturned to missed free throws by New York, everything they needed to go right went right. Everything the Knicks had to go wrong went wrong in the final three minutes and overtime of that game. So there's certainly a reason to go into game too feeling optimistic if you're New York. I just, look, I love.

the Pacers' depth in the series. And there's also like kind of this, I know it's sort of fantastical, but like this team of destiny stuff with the Pacers. Like what is happening in Indiana is ridiculous. Like there are four teams in NBA history that have won a game when they're down seven or more in the final 30 seconds of the fourth quarter or overtime.

And the pace of three of those wins, three of those wins in like the last like 30 some odd years since that's been tracked. It's it's ridiculous. Tyrese Halliburton has taken the criticism of him as the, quote, most overrated player in the NBA and run with it and had a fantastic postseason. Like, I was at the Paceous practice the other day. Like, they're not overly confident after that game one win,

but they are extremely confident in who they are and how they play. And part of that, it goes back to everything we just talked about. Continuity, chemistry. This team got beat in the conference finals last year. They didn't change anything substantially. They got a couple of guys back. They kept building on what they had. And I think that's a big reason they're in this place right now.

Okay. I don't want to jump ahead, though. This leads to the office. If, for example, it is Oklahoma City, Indiana. Do you think we're not giving Indiana enough credit? Like, they're going to do the same thing in a finals matchup that they've done, not just in this round, but throughout this playoffs of like, wow, this continued revelation. Pacers are good.

Pacers are really good. They're really good. But Oklahoma City is the only chalk team left in this final four. And I think we saw in that Denver series, particularly in Game 7, why they won 68 games. Like two things have gone right for Oklahoma City if they were worried about coming to this playoffs. Because they're still, they were the youngest, the second youngest team to get the number one seed in the NBA history. They were the youngest team in the NBA to start the season. They were worried coming in that their inexperience,

was going to cost them in the playoffs. Well, they got through Denver. They won a game seven. That inexperience did not cost them. They grew up over the course of the first two rounds of his playoffs. The other thing that's worked for them, the big X factor, has been Jalen Williams. Like, they knew what they were going to get from Shea. They expected to get certain things from Chet Holmgren, a couple of the other guys.

But Jalen Williams was that other guy. He was a primary ball handler, a second score. They needed him to be the all-star that he was in the regular season. And he has been that by and large, and then some. Going back to game seven against Denver, game one and two against Minnesota. Like if they're playing like that with that defense, Indiana, New York, it's my opinion that nobody's going to beat them. All right.

I did see back to the parody thing really quick. Do you know this stat off top of your head? I saw this. Is it the first time in, it's an incredibly long time. I'm just trying to remember how long that a Western Conference Finals matchup has not been hosted in either Texas or California. that's wild is it 20 years is it 20 it's something i think it might be something like 20 years you've always had a california or texas team in the western conference finals i have to look

back up how long that's been but you start thinking about it it's like yeah okay lakers warriors rockets spurs maves yeah that that one of those teams have been in the western conference finals for am i right like 20 years at top of my head i'm thinking that you know yeah those teams you mentioned oh two two days just said 96 it's more than 20 years Since 1996. How wild is that? And it's going to get even wilder in the next couple of years. Like the Jason Tatum injury has changed the thinking of teams in the Eastern Conference

because now Goliath is kind of out at least for next year. Now the Eastern Conference next year is wide open. So if you're Orlando, for example, and you were the 8 seat or the 7th seat, whatever they were, going to the playoffs, you're looking around going, we've got one of the best defenses in the NBA, a legit star, bench arrow. If we can just find one guy that can put the ball in the basket, we can win the Eastern Conference. Detroit, getting to the playoffs for the first time and forever, great improvements. They're looking around going. If we get one more veteran, maybe we can win the Eastern

Conference. I think there's going to be an arms race in the Eastern Conference this offseason to try to take advantage of the fact that Boston is probably poised to take some kind of gap year, and that conference is going to be wide open. More of the Will Kane Show, right after this. Following Fox's initial donation to the Kerr County Flood Relief Fund, our generous viewers have answered the call to action across all Fox platforms and have helped raise $6.5 million. Visit go.com forward slash TX flood relief to support relief and rebuilding efforts. Hey, I'm Tragaddy host of the TradeGatty podcast.

I hope you will join me every Tuesday and Thursday as we navigate life together and hopefully find ourselves a little bit better on the other side. Listen and follow now at Fox Newspodcast.com. Welcome back to the Will Cain Show. All right, Mannix, our mutual friend two of days now has a quiz, which is certain failure for me. I mean, is this on the NBA two of days? This is on the NBA.

Okay, yeah, me versus Chris Manix. This will be fun. This will be fun. Here we go. All right, he's got a quiz for us, Chris. Here we go. All right. There's all multiple choice.

Number one, only one rookie has ever won NBA finals MVP. Who was it? A, Larry Bird, B, Magic Johnson, C, Tim Duncan, D. kareem abdul jabar wow see going back into like the 80s tests that knowledge um finals MVP i think i got my answer bird johnson duncan jabar i'm going to go with magic okay what he got well okay so it's either magic or duncan and i'm just trying magic did make the finals his his rookie year i'm pretty sure but i'm going to say kareem i'm going to say kareem won MVP

in. I'm going Dunkin. It's B. Magic Johnson. Chris Mannix is correct. That was a shot in the dark. I will say that. All right. Number two, since 1990, how many number eight seeds have reached the NBA finals? Oh, I got this one. A, 0, B, 1, C, 2, D3. I will go one final answer.

And extra points, I'm sure you know where it is. Yeah, it's one. Okay, but I don't. I know it's, I, hold on, I can do it. Who was it? Number 8C to make the finals. Come on, man. Pistons? It's relevant to now in the playoffs. It is relevant to now. And it's where I'm sitting at this moment.

New York? Yes, the New York Knicks, the Jeff Van Gundy Knicks. That was, I think, the lockout shortened season, wasn't it? 99, 2000 or whatever that was. I remember that because Phil Jackson, what did he say? He said that didn't really count like that season. The teams that succeeded there didn't count. Hey, as a quick aside, as a quick aside in the middle of this quiz,

keep your music going to it. Man, it says, Tim Duncan, the most underrated superstar of all time in the NBA. I always get mad because I don't think Dirk gets his credit. But when I see top five list, top 10 list, I just don't think Duncan is appreciated for how great he was. Yeah, he's certainly up there. Even at the very end of his career, he was still like a high level defender and rebounder. Like just ultimate winner, ultimate winner, very underrated.

All right. Question number three, this is a draft related. Since 2000, how many number one overall picks have won NBA MVP? A, is it 2, B, 3, C, 4, D5? Since 2000. How many number one picks? How many number one overall picks have won MVP? Mm-hmm.

Extra points, if you can name them. I mean, the one is obvious. Well, we got LeBron. Number one overall picks. So out of 25th, number one, number one. one picks. How many? Was Derek Rose the first overall pick? Yeah, you got it. That was, that's two.

I like the working together. This is great. I'm going to say two. I think those are the only two guys that did it. I don't think Dwight Howard did it. What was, what was our multiple choice? One, two, three, four. Two, three, four, five. Two, three, four, five. All right, I'm behind. I think it's two as well, but I'm behind him. So I'm going to gamble that we are missing one. I'll go three. That is correct. Will Kane gets it.

It's three. LeBron James, Derek Rose, and Joelle and B. Oh, Jewel and B. That's right. I had to take the gamble to get back into the game. I had to. That was blind nil in spades. There you go.

All right. Number four. What is the lowest seed to win an NBA championship since 1980? Fifth seed, sixth seed, seventh seed, eighth seed. You act like these questions are easy. Like, I thought we were going to be like. What's LeBron's favorite color? Yeah, he did.

They're getting harder as they go on. So say it again, fifth, sixth, seventh. What is the lowest seed to win an NBA championship since 1980? Fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth, eighth. I'm going to go fifth seed. Yeah, I got to go fifth seed, too. I don't think anybody below fifth is one. Six seed, 1995 Rockets.

I never would have guessed that. You never would have guessed that. All right, number five. Which current player holds the record for most points? points in a single playoff game. A. Devin Booker. B. Jason Tatum. C. Damian Lillard. D. Kevin Durant. Single playoff. I'm going to go most points. Don't follow me Manix. All right. I got it. It's two to one manix right now, right? I think I'm going to go Devin Booker. I'm going to go Kevin Durant. I think Booker had great numbers in the regular C. He had 75 against Boston one point. I don't know if you

had it in the playoffs. I'm going to go Kevin Bucher. to rent. Both of you are wrong. It's C. Damian Lillard, 55 points in a playoff game. Fifty-five is the most in a playoff game? Yeah, apparently. I wonder if I was high in that. All right. A few more.

Number six, who has committed the most technical fouls in NBA history? A, Rashid Wallace, B, Charles Barkley, C, Carl Malone, D. Dennis Rodman. Oh, Draymond Green's not on the list. I thought for sure he would be. No, he plays in the week era.

So is it? Rashid Wallace, Charles Barkley, Carl Malone, Dennis Rodman. I'm going to go first. I don't want to be accused of following you. I'm going to go Rashid because Rashid had some years, man, where he was racking him up. That was before, I think, Rashid was racking up technicals before the NBA instituted this rule that if you get like over 16, you get suspended. So he had some years that were astronomical technical numbers. So what was it?

it in a in a playoff run? No, no, who has committed the most technical fouls in NBA history for their career? Oh, just in their career? Yeah. Rashid Wallace, Charles Barkley, Malone, Dennis Rodman. It's got to be Rashid or Rodman. I'll go Rodman. I got to make this two, too.

Come on. Damn. Both of you are wrong. See, Carl Malone. Malone? The mailman. Really? Yeah. Most technical fouls. Rashid gets all the headlines. Something about the power. But Malone was... That's the power of reputation.

Yeah. The little note to this question is that Rashid was always seen as the one, but it was actually... He has to have the record for most in a single season. No, no? I don't know. I collect that up after. He did have those years, though. I think he had like 20 plus in one of these years. That's insane.

All right. Number seven, which of these players was not traded on the night they were drafted? Is it A, Dirk Novitsky, B, Vince Carter, C, Chris Weber, Dway, Dwayne, Wade, which was not drafted or not traded on the night there's I'm set. I'm set. Novitsky, Carter, Weber, Wade. I know it for sure, so you go first. Oh, okay.

Novitsky was traded. That was the famous tractor trailer deal. Mm-hmm. Say the Vince, and who was the other one? Novitsky, Vince Carter, Chris Weber, Dwayne Wade. Weber was traded. Dwayne Wade. Yeah, it's D. Dwayne Wade. D. Dwayne Wade, that's right.

That is. Manix, that was my chance. Vince was a draft night trial. That was 4-5 deal. That was with Jamal Mashburn, wasn't it? 4-5 deal? Yep. No, it wasn't Mashburn?

Was it? I believe so. Tractor Trail of Trade never gets old thinking like, I remember talking to Rick Patino about that because they drafted Paul Pierce that year and they would set on Dirk Davitsky. And then when Dirk got taken, they had to figure out who Paul Pierce was and why he was still available at number 10. Really? Yes.

So the Celtics thought Novitsky was falling to them. They were all in on Dirk. And Donnie Nelson swooped in, made that deal with Milwaukee and got Dirk. And I remember talking to Petino and Chris Wallace in Boston years later. And like Paul Pierce was a project as a top three pick, you know, coming out of Kansas. And they're looking around going, why the hell did this guy fall, like doing research on the fly in that like 10 minute window that they had to make a draft pick? Yeah, not a bad consolation. All right.

We got one last question. Number eight. Only two players in NBA history have recorded a triple double with 10 plus steals. Who is one of them? Gary Payton, Draymond Green, Chris Paul, Scotty Pippin. I'll go first because only one of your list. Only one of them is one of two players. Ten plus steals in a game. It's part of the triple. Part of the triple double. Yep. Give me the first two again. It was Pippin. Payton, Draymond, Chris Paul, Scottie Pippen. I'm going to go with Gary Payton. Okay, Will. All right. I'm going to go Chris Paul.

Neither of you are correct. It's B. Draymond Green. This is just pathetic. I win by default. It's just sad, man. That's just sad. Sadder for me because this is one of cover.

No, those are hard. I agree. It's worse for you, man. It's worse for me. Words for two, twos is sitting there asking like this is going to be some easy quiz. Triple double with ten steals? What the hell is that? It's one of those stats that's in your head when it happened, but it didn't stay.

All right, this has been fun. Chris Mannix, thanks for hanging out with us so much, man. You got it, man. My pleasure. There you go. I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Chris Mannix. Check him out at Sports Illustrated or NBC Sports Boston. I will see you again next time.

Listen ad-free with a Fox News podcast plus subscription on Apple Podcasts. And Amazon Prime members, you can listen to this show, ad-free on the Amazon Music app. From the Fox News Podcasts Network. Hey there, it's me, Kennedy, make sure to check out my podcast. Kennedy saves the world. It is five days a week, every week. Download and listen at Fox Newspodcast.com or wherever you listen to your favorite podcast. Thank you.