Will Cain Country - Tom Bilyeu Warns AI Could Crash the Economy in 900 Days

Episode Date: January 8, 2026

Story 1: Artificial Intelligence is without a doubt one of the most impactful inventions to emerge in the past few decades, but some have raised concerns about such an invention’s effects on the economy, and humanity as a whole. One of those individuals is the CEO of Impact Theory and Co-Founder of Quest Nutrition Tom Bilyeu, who joins Will to explain his theory that AI will destroy our economy within 900 days.Story 2: Will and The Crew share their thoughts on the discussion with Tom Bilyeu, before diving into Minnesota Governor Tim Walz’s (D-MN) threats to deploy the Minnesota National Guard against ICE after a woman was shot while using her vehicle to impede an ICE operation. Plus, Will reacts to Jimmy Kimmel’s new slogan: “Donald Trump is Going to Kill You.” Subscribe to ‘Will Cain Country’ on YouTube here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Watch Will Cain Country!⁠⁠⁠Follow ‘Will Cain Country’ on X (⁠⁠⁠@willcainshow⁠⁠⁠), Instagram (⁠⁠⁠@willcainshow⁠⁠⁠), TikTok (⁠⁠⁠@willcainshow⁠⁠⁠), and Facebook (⁠⁠⁠@willcainnews⁠⁠⁠)Follow Will on X: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@WillCain⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Insurrection. There's no other way to put this than that the governor of Minnesota and the mayor of Minneapolis have called for an insurrection against the United States of America. But first, countdown clock. 900 days until the end of capitalism, with the founder of Quest Nutrition and Impact Theory, Tom Bill You. It is Wilcane Country, streaming live at the Wilcane Country YouTube channel, the Wilcane Facebook page at your leisure and at your discretion by following us at. Spoutify or on Apple. AI. For some time I've wanted to have a conversation, a deep conversation about artificial intelligence.

Not simply how do you use chat GPT to your advantage, but thinking on a longer time horizon, what actually does AI do? Yes, of course, to the job market. We've begun to have that conversation. There's a sense of doom for everyone raising a child, and for that matter, for our own economic security in a very short time frame. We've come to understand the idea that the world economically is about to experience a revolution on the timeline of roughly five to ten years. But I've also become fascinated with the conversation of what AI actually does beyond you as an economic unit.

But you as a person driven by purpose, you as a person, honestly, as a man of God. You as someone who wants to create a life of purpose that includes forming a family. I've been hunting several times over the last couple of months around the campfire with my buddies and my sons. I've said, you know, it's possible. It might even be probable that one of our children, if not our children, one of our grandchildren, come to the dinner table and said, Mom, Dad, I'd like you to meet my fiancé. She's a robot. Not in this house, but I'm in love.

I think this is a very realistic outcome amidst this revolution of AI. To discuss this and much more today, we have the founder of Quest Nutrition, if anybody's into consuming protein, you've probably come across Quest, Quest, Quest bars, Quest powder. Lately, Quest chips, protein infused into everyday snacks, getting that protein to calorie ratio up. Quest was a company founded in 2010 by several men, one of whom was Tom Bill You. It was sold some less than a decade later for a billion dollars. Since that time, Tom Bill You has built a media empire, impact theory. He's got 500 million views on YouTube, over 4.5 million. million subscribers, and he delves not just into personal nutrition, but he delves into the big

questions, the big questions like those about AI, and those in the political landscape, like the capture of Nicholas Maduro, Venezuela, and I'm sure given time, what's happening culturally in America, as we watch what I think, and we'll talk about a little bit later in the show, the beginning, perhaps, of a revolution, an insurrection in Minnesota. But First, let's get into the countdown, 900 days until the end of capitalism with Tom Bill U. Tom, good to have you on Will Cain Country. What's up? It's good to be here, man.

Thanks for having me. And there's a lot going on. There is. And I've noticed you break a lot of this down in depth. And, you know, with big thoughts on your YouTube channel and in your company, Impact 3. But I want to start with a video that I saw that you posted, you know, maybe. maybe a month ago, and it really, really caught my attention. The headline read, 900 days, countdown, 900 days until the end of capitalism.

Tell us what you mean, and why did you put such a specific number on this? We all fear, or some of us alternatively, might be excited about what is going to come in this revolution of AI, but why 900 days? So the 900 days is really about how rapidly is the technology advancing. at what point will AI be better than us at everything? And that is, let's call it, sometimes I think it's an aggressive number of days. Sometimes I'm not sure we're going to make it 900 days. But that really does come down to just when will the technology actually cross the ability

to outperform humans on every task. It is going to happen. There's no sign right now that there'll be an asymptote of intelligence. So as of right now, we have no reason to believe that you can't. can't keep making AI smarter and smarter by building larger and larger data centers with more and more efficient algorithms. And so until we hit some sort of ceiling

that we cannot yet see coming, there's just no reason to believe that it's not gonna keep going. So when you carry that out, it ends up being on a pretty rapid timeline that you will get to the point where AI will be able to lower the cost of energy so profoundly, lower the cost of labor effectively to zero

because of the reduction in energy that you are post-scarcity, that you're going, you're moving beyond what we think of as capitalism right now, which is really about identifying the right price for scarce goods. So if AI doesn't asymptote, so it doesn't hit a ceiling, and it continues at the rate of progress that it's on right now, it rough swag, you're looking at somewhere in the neighborhood of 900 days where the system, as we recognize it today, will begin to. to break apart so meaningfully that you could call it the end of capitalism. Now, there's enough question marks in there that people should not be, you're not going to

find me out of my doorstep selling everything I own because I'm so convinced that I'm right about that number of days, but it gives you direction of travel. Three years. The scarcity that you talk about in the video, which I've watched, is the scarcity of labor, that much of our economic value as individuals are as contributing members of an economy and at its base, it is us and our labor that is the scarce resource, and AI is replacing so much of what we do in making labor less scarce, thus making us less valuable. You talk about in there that outside of, and I think I'm directly quoting you to some extent,

outside of love and religion, your economic value is how we have structured our lives. It's how we structure our day. It's what we get up and do. It's how we provide for our families. So what do we do as human beings if we don't have any value in terms of labor? Yeah, this is going to be the fundamental question that we will have to answer sometime, like you said, call it five to ten years. Humans are going to be struggling with this incredibly profoundly. I'm going to give you an answer, but I actually think it's going to be wildly disruptive. I think this is going to be problematic on the level of the book, A Brave New World.

So this is, I'm going to make it sound easy. It will not be. But there are going to be four paths before us. Humans are all about meaning and purpose. When you think about it, whether you think God bestowed us with this or you think evolution gave it to us, it doesn't matter. We have it. And the thing that gets us to get up move to face the dangers of the world

in order to secure resources to make sure that we can have a family and raise them so that they can then have a family and raise them, you get locked into things like ambition and that ambition needs an engine, that engine is meaning and purpose. So many people do it for their family. So they're going to immediately recognize, oh, yeah, I go work really hard so that I can provide a better life for my kids, right? Nice, easy, simple way to think about it. Okay, well, what happens when AI is better than you at everything?

you no longer need to work to provide for yourself or your family. Now all of the things that God evolution, whatever, gave us to optimize our behavior, it goes away. And people are going to have a profound sense of dis-ease because it's, why am I doing this? This is like when somebody spends their whole life working to win the Super Bowl, they win the Super Bowl, and then they're depressed. The reason they're depressed is because they've done the thing. And so now when they look at their life before them, there's no more meaning and purpose. They don't have that target that they're aiming at. So people are going to have to find a way to say, I don't need to do anything, but I'm going to do something.

And I'm going to imbue that something with a profound sense of meaning. And so I think that that's going to break us into four avenues. So there are going to be four things that people will naturally pursue just based on the way the human mind is architected. thing number one is going to be what I'll call the new Amish so you're going to have people that reject technology if you've ever read dune the opening of dune is you shall not make an intelligence in the likeness of the human mind it's just people realize we did this to ourselves we have created this glut of meaning and purpose and I hate to say it but this was the unabomers manifesto which was basically we're getting rid of all those sweet spot problems where humans are able to express their humanness in getting to the point where they're able to solve these difficult but not impossible challenges and so it gives them this just optimal zone of i'm able to improve myself i have meaning and purpose in the pursuit of solving these problems so those things all go away they're going to realize we did this to ourselves and they're going to go off the grid and they're going to live an entirely human existence

and you can already feel this with the people that are just wholesale rejecting AI okay cool so path number one the new Amish path number two is going to be i want to do life on hard mode so these are going to be people that go to mars and the like so they're going to be the new adventures the new explorers we really are opening up a new frontier in space it will have a massive death rate uh but we also know that when the new world was discovered people did the same thing coming to america in like the 1600s it was like an 80% death rate in the first year and yet people still did it so you'll have people that choose that path the third path is my least favorite and that is a brave new world which is just drugs and hedonism and there will be people that go live that lifestyle

and then the fourth one which is the one that i identify most with is building and existing inside of virtual worlds long story we can get into it if you want but just know that there is going to be given that for technology to rob us of meaning and purpose it will have made the the creation of virtual worlds very simple. So those will exist in abundance. They will be incredibly compelling. And you will see an interface between human biology and these virtual worlds such that the experiences become so compelling that you can reintroduce that challenge that we so hunger for

in a gamified way. Now, for some people, that's going to sound completely dystopian. I totally get that. but that one speaks to me. But those are the four paths that I see before us, but the punchline of all of them is you must either abandon meaning and purpose and go do drugs and have meaningless sex

or you're going to have to insert meaning and purpose through one of the other three means. You inserted pop culture visuals for a couple of those. You referenced a brave new world. I'm curious on the fourth path, building and creating and participating in a virtual world,

do you see that akin to another pop culture reference, The Matrix? Of course. I think that the Matrix is such an extraordinary metaphor for the human existence that it is, for me, it's arguably the most important piece of pop culture that I've ever encountered in terms of it. I encountered that one in my early 20s.

So it gave me a way to think about my own mind that, oh, I get it, the believing that I can do this is the most important thing here. And then once I believe I can do it, then my actions will follow my beliefs. So you're never going to accomplish a goal. You don't believe that you can accomplish. Now, the other side of the matrix,

which is probably more what you're referring to here, which is that you can get trapped inside of it. To me, the key takeaway from the matrix is once you're awake inside of the matrix, meaning once you know this is a virtual world, then it simply gives you the opportunity, to let's round it to something akin of like, oh, I can become almost superhuman and I can really take this human ability

to adapt, to grow and get better, what I call the only belief that matters. The only belief that matters is that if I put time and energy into getting better at something, I will actually get better. And so that's why when I think about this as a solution to meaning and purpose,

I'm saying life actually needs to be difficult for it to be rewarding. And so when you're awake inside of the matrix, suddenly it becomes a thing that you can win at, that you can play to an end state that I call fulfillment, where it's not about getting rich or famous. It's about understanding that helping yourself and others in service of a noble goal

by overcoming difficulties in improving yourself is the most long-term stable and pleasurable psychological state that you can be in. So being asleep in the Matrix is a nightmare. That's where most people spend their lives, whether that's just a metaphor, or in this future that I'm imagining, a reality. Being asleep, terrible.

But being awake is an extraordinary opportunity. I'm tempted to think about this conversation in the context of my sons. I have two teenage sons. But with the acknowledgement, just for the moment that you're correct, that the countdown is not. 900 days, this is actually the path that I will have to choose, not just my sons. I will have to

choose one of these four paths within my lifetime, which is not just extremely possible, but probable. I would like to think without having thought about this at a deeper level, I would choose option two to choose life in hard mode, that even with the risk associated of living life on the frontier, there's more fulfillment in the reality of that frontier. I'm a little surprised by your choice of number four, because the lesson for me from the Matrix is, Really, what is reality? So even if you're aware you're in an alternate or false reality, that doesn't mean you're not living in that false reality. You could be a superhero in your vision of the matrix, but in the objective reality, again, this is a philosophical conversation, Tom, that I didn't expect to go down, but it presumes the existence of an objective reality.

And I do accept that there is such thing as objective reality, that we don't all simply. live in our little skull-sized kingdoms. And I see that fourth option as posited against objective reality. And let's just stick with the matrix. So you're a hero. Awesome. You have superhuman powers. If you envision it, you can do it, but only because it is virtual. Meanwhile, in objective reality, you're a battery and a pod wasting away as a physical human being. Yes. So, okay, there's two ways to go down. I will briefly dip my toe into each and then as the leader of this conversation, you can decide if there's more in either of them. So toe dip number one is, yeah, heard. I totally get that. And I think a lot of people are going to choose what you're choosing. And this is anything that is artificial is just wholly uninteresting. And you get into what I call frame of reference. So we all have a frame of reference. We are all blind. to our frame of reference. The frame of reference is made up of our biology.

It's made up of our beliefs and our values to simplify it. Your frame of reference controls not only what you look at, but what you see. So super powerful controls the quality of your life. You want to change it, then you're gonna have a hard time changing your biology, but there's certainly certain elements that you can do there.

But for the most part, that's about changing your beliefs and values. Okay, on the other side, you've got a worldview that I hold, which is your, You're already living inside of the matrix and you just don't know it. And so if you look at the fact that if I want to, I can make you hallucinate, so I can make you see things that aren't there. I can make you feel things that aren't there.

I like to, with drugs, right, just keep it really simple. So you know that I can take a simple exogenous substance and completely change your reality. But then I will also remind people that right now you see. 0.0035% of the available electromagnetic spectrum. Meaning of all the things that you could see, infrared and things like that, you see 0.0035% of it. So your brain is already going,

the world is way too complicated. So, dear Will, I'm going to simplify the life out of this thing, and I'm going to present you a hyper simplified version. Now, if you're going to give somebody a simplified version, of anything, you could say that you are lying to them, that you're giving them a virtual world. So you're already living inside of a virtual world by any estimation that I think anybody can put forward. You are not interacting with the world as it actually is. As a reminder to everybody, 99.9% of the entire universe exists in a plasma state. Most

people don't even know what plasma is. Dark energy, dark matter, like nobody knows what those are. So we don't understand the world that we're already in. Okay. On top of that to make matters worse. In the last few years, a group of guys won the Nobel Prize for proving that the universe is not locally real. That means that the universe renders like a video game, meaning that if you essentially, this is shorthand, I'm oversimplifying it, but this is the punchline, if you're not looking at the moon, the moon isn't there. And the moon only comes into existence when you look at it. I would like to remind people, they've proven that that is true the moon gets complicated because there's so many people looking at it but it's like if you have

something that is not being detected in any way it it doesn't exist and so that's where this all gets super unhinged and it intimates how has that been proven that that is the suggestion that human perception defines objective reality i don't i don't i don't I don't debate that human perception defines subjective reality, but what you have done is basically, and you have hearkened, and I'm having a fun conversation, Tom, this is an antagonistic, but you have essentially marshaled science to suggest to me that there is no such thing as objective reality, and we can do a really simple test on this that everyone's familiar with. If a tree falls in the forest, doesn't make a sound. It doesn't require humans observation of it. that sound to know that a sound exist if that tree falls. So maybe, subjectively, it made no sound. But we know objectively, and I hear you marshaling science to suggest that it made no sound

if no one's there, seems to fly in the face of the idea that we share any objective reality. Yes, all true. So science is, I think, grappling with trying to understand what's going on. To be clear, science does not understand physics yet, not all the way. So I am the last person to tell you I understand what's going on. I certainly do not. But when you look at what is the metaphor that probably closely matches our understanding of it today, which will change obviously. But the metaphor that most closely matches what we see today is that we are living inside of a simulation.

And this is why that simulation theory is growing is right now you can't use the mathematics or any of the things that we've been able to do. from an actual test perspective, experiments that we've actually run to disprove it. Doesn't mean that it's true. Over time, who knows what we end up discovering? But right now, we don't have the ability to disprove that that's true. And if you start running the math of,

I'll try to do this very quickly, but if you start running the math of, okay, obviously humans are trying to make a simulation of Earth right now. So if we grant that over some period of time, could be 10,000 years, but over some period of time, artificial intelligence will grow to the point that we can simulate a universe. Okay, well, if that's true, now you get into a math problem of, if that's true, there will be essentially an infinite number of simulations within a simulation.

Because if you build a simulation of the real world and the real world would create a simulation, then the simulation of the real world would build a simulation, would build a simulation, would build a simulation, would build a simulation, so on and so forth. So just mathematically, the odds of your in base reality are effectively zero. Now, none of that really matters to me. And so getting lost in all of that is not super useful. For me, what I do is I just step back and go, okay, cool, thought experiment. I'm in a body.

So whether it's a simulated body or not, it's completely irrelevant to me. I've lived my entire life in this body. So I'm going to continue to experience life in this body. So whether that's simulated biology or real biology just does not matter. And so I always get sad when people get hung up on the, but no, what is literally true? It's like, I for one, don't care what's literally true. I care what's experientially true. And what's experientially true is meaning and purpose matter a lot.

And everyone is going to have to contend with that. And so when I lay out the four options, I'm not expecting people to run down the path with me of developing a frame of reference that's like, it doesn't matter if this is simulated or not. What matters is that I'm essentially doing the things, struggling, nobly for an honorable goal so that I can contribute to myself and others, right? That's fulfillment. So I'm going to do those things to make sure that I feel self-respect, that I feel good about myself, that I feel like I'm contributing. All of those things matter. Now, the fact that I can enjoy doing that even in a simulated world, cool.

that that's for people like me other people will have to contend with that same psychological principle but they may like you do it on hard mode somewhere else they may do it in a human only enclave somewhere so the the frame of reference just determines which path you go down we're getting deep we're going to go deeper with tom bill you the founder of impact theory and quest nutrition here on AI and the future, but we'll tie it in to the current events of today on Wilcane Country. This is Ainsley Earhart. Thank you for joining me for the 52 episode podcast series, The Life of Jesus. A listening experience that will provide hope, comfort, and understanding of the greatest story ever told. Listen and follow now at Fox News Podcasts.com or wherever you listen to

podcasts. Welcome back to Will Kane Country. We're still hanging out with Tom Bill You, who is the founder of Impact Theory and Quest Nutrition. Now, we just fell down the major. One more question on this that you and your forepass that you said that caught my attention is when you live a life where you don't need. So we talked about that labor becomes no longer scarce and therefore we don't need to work. But you also seem to imply that we won't need for resources. I assume that means for food, for shelter, for luxury, for vacation, for what it takes for us to live a material life. do you see on one hand AI destroying our sense of purpose

if it is defined in work but on another hand providing for us in some way the basic necessities of life yes I think we are going to have to contend with both of those factors because when if you just say AI is going to destroy the way that the vast majority of humans

get their meaning and purpose today and meaning and purpose is arguably the most important foundation of your life AI is going to erode that then people are going to say okay hold on don't do this but because of game theory you're not going to be able to stop it so for people that aren't familiar with game theory game theory says any technology that promises an advantage will be developed regardless of the cost and just like we develop nuclear weapons despite the fact When they tested the first one, they knew that there was a non-zero chance that they would ignite the entire atmosphere and kill everyone. But they did it anyway because it promised an advantage.

So AI is the same way. If you can get super intelligence before anybody else, you win everything. You can control everyone. Now, there's a very potent argument to be made that you lose control of the superintelligence. And we'll set that aside for now. So you're in this position where you've got a thing that is going to undermine your. meaning and purpose and you're going to have to contend with that in some way and it is going to be developed whether by you or someone else and so what do you do with that now because it's being developed I really want people to pay attention to what a world of abundance actually looks like because we're arguing over a lot of this stuff right now we're arguing over the catastrophic consequences of some people having access to needed things and other people not having access what I'm saying is AI makes that go away.

So now everybody has access to what they need. It will not solve the psychological problem and you will still have all the conflict and all of that and you will rapidly see that struggling for resources was simply one of the things

that allowed people to derive meaning and purpose. But the meaning and purpose game is really the underlying engine of human action. But to make this tangible, I don't know, I think you probably have

children, Tom. I have children. But again, I think that's, it's almost a way of, it's almost a cope talking about our children, because we're talking about a short timeline here. If we don't work, you're suggesting we will also have some basic level of sustenance, whatever that may be. Again, health care, shelter, food, all the things that we struggle for today. I got to pay my mortgage. I got to go to the grocery store. I've got to pay for health care. Now, if you don't have a job, those things become very pronounced. So politicians have debates about whether or not universal basic income. The government should give somebody some baseline level of income to cover those needs if a significant percentage of our population is not working. And I'm not

talking about 10% unemployment. I'm talking about 50% unemployment, 60% unemployment. So are you saying AI is going to answer those questions as well? Like, you're right. We fight about health care. AI is going to solve health care and it's not going to be a scarce resource. AI is going to solve housing and it's not going to be a scarce resource. Yes, all true. So let's walk through how that would really look. So one of the fundamental things, you actually used a phrase that I never hear anybody used and it's so brilliant.

We are economic units. Once people understand that the architecture of the human mind, the architecture of the human experience, the architecture of human society for sure, is all around us as economic units what does that mean it means that we all go man i really want to eat today but damn like a bunch of my village starved to death last winter and partly because i suck at going and getting the resources but sally is really dope at that and timmy is really good at the hunt and so it'd be way cooler if i could stay and make the clothes that they can wear to be warm because i'm good at that and then they go do their thing but we can't because i can't be bartering all the time for everything it's just too

painful and so every civilization ever has come up with an abstraction that we call money so that that is how we become economic units it's not a thing that's imposed top down this is a thing that comes up from the bottom because we we are all good at different things we all want to specialize and so we find this way to capture the value of our individual time and the better we are at something that matters the more economic units we get for that okay so when you put it into that framework here's what happens with AI. AI goes, oh, the reason things are expensive for you is because of energy costs. For you to go hunting, you need to eat something. And the acquisition of that thing that you're going to eat takes a lot of people to coordinate and all that are in modern terms to build, you know,

these gigantic farms and industrial process, all of this. It takes a lot of energy. So if I can drive energy costs down, then I drive overall cost down. Energy costs is like the bedrock of how expensive things are in your society. So if you drive the cost of energy down, then everything gets cheaper. Okay. So now what do we think is going to happen with AI? We already know that the sun emits enough energy every day to like do something like 30 times the amount of energy that we need every single day. I think it's way more than that, but just to be conservative. The problem is we don't have the knowledge yet in solar power to capture that energy efficiently enough. But AI will be able to solve that. It doesn't violate the laws of

physics for us to be able to capture that. So assuming that AI can learn the laws of physics, then it will be able to get to the point where it can capture a far more meaningful amount of solar energy. We're already, even without AI, making massive progress every year. So just that, and that certainly is the only thing that AI will do for energy, but just that alone is going to drive energy costs to near zero. Now, once energy costs are near zero, you begin assembling robots for near zero because you can begin to extract the minerals and things that you need to put them together. And then once you have that first generation of robots, which you will obviously need human cooperation to build, but once you have that first generation of robots that can

assemble the next generation of robots, if we have dropped energy costs to near zero, you now have labor costs that are near zero because robots eat sunlight for food. So if you're capturing all of the sunlight or enough to cover all of your energy, costs then your energy costs go to zero and you apply that energy towards building autonomous robots that build whatever it is that you need now of course there are many steps between where we are now and being able to pull that off and things tend to take longer than any of us expect and all of that is true the thing to think about is but are we on that trajectory now and I would say from a direction of travel perspective it is self-evident that we're on that path already and it's just a question

of how soon do we get there? And given how rapidly AI is getting more intelligent, I think it just clocked in at like 140 IQ or something like that. So it's already way above average. And as that continues to go, you're going to see change happen more and more rapidly. Well, Tom, in your simulation, not my simulation, presuming we've already had fractured simulations, you made a bunch of money in Quest with Quest. Now, I believe we're close to the same age. You might be a year or so younger than me. So I just doing the math. I think you started Quest in 2010, putting it at about 35, 34 years old. Quest was a really rapid success. I read 57,000 percent, I believe, revenue growth in three years. Was it an overnight

success? You were 34, 35. I imagine that wasn't the first project or the first job. And by the way, I have contributed to the bottom line. I have bought Quest. I think there's probably some Quest chips, which I know you're no longer in it, but there's some Quest chips in my closet. I don't know if Robert F. Kennedy approves or not, but I think there are some. Was it an overnight success, Tom? We used to joke. It was an overnight success 12 years in the making. So yes, we had multiple companies before that and one really core one. And so it took a very long time for us to learn everything that we needed to learn about business for a thing that we were pursuing to line up with the timing of what was happening in the world,

you know, for better or worse, so much a business success really is about getting the timing right. And we just really got the timing right. I won't even say we got the timing right because we're super geniuses. It was really, Quest was born out of frustration. So I'd gone in and quit our previous company and the guys that were my partners at the time were like, hey, hold on, what would need to be true for us to keep working together? And I was like, I'm just so unhappy going back to meaning and purpose and so I was like well whatever we do I need to be passionate about I need to be able to be myself now we would say authentic you know I want to build something community based where I can be authentic all day and this was before social media

was called social media and I gave my partners a big presentation on what we would now call social media marketing influencer marketing and I said look this is what I think we should do and this is all right is the world is waking up to the fact that sugar is the problem so we made a product that tasted like it had sugar but didn't before anybody really realized that was what you needed to do. We were doing social media marketing before anybody knew what it was. We were using influencers before they were called influencers. And so we just got all the timing right, but we got it right because we were so fed up with just chasing money and trying to be like typical business guys. And so it was like, we didn't know if this was

going to work. We just knew we could be passionate about it, show up every day and fight for it. For me, it was about my mom and my sister. I'd grown up in a morbidly obese family. And I wanted to make food that they could choose based on taste. And then we were doing the hard work of making sure that it was actually good for them. And so we found that this is something I teach to entrepreneurs now. You're not trying to find an easy path forward. You are trying to find the hard because that's going to be the thing that's the moat that's keeping other people out. And one of the hard things for us to build what we built was that there wasn't any manufacturing equipment that could make a bar that tasted like it had sugar but didn't for reasons that would probably

bore your audience to tears but we figured that out and had to engineer our own equipment we couldn't go buy it off the shelf we had to engineer our own equipment and that allowed us to take advantage of an opportunity that everybody else when they hit that hard thing they weren't willing to push in and really do that you know having started that company and now impact theory i see on your very successful YouTube channel, you're also talking about current events. A moment ago, you said that energy is the bedrock. Energy is the bedrock of the economy. As energy becomes cheaper than robotics and AI become more probable and possible bringing down the cost of everything. So I picked up what you were putting down. You can picture a field of corn in Iowa with combines

driven by robots or houses being built in suburbs of Dallas with robots building those houses at a fraction of the cost and a fraction of the time that we're doing that. right now. But you referenced sunlight as that abundant source of energy, and you also acknowledge that it's on the horizon. It's out there a bit on the arc. You did a video at Impact Theory about Venezuela, and you were talking about really some of the geopolitics of what's going on right now in terms of, well, one, the United States taking Maduro and quote-unquote running Venezuela, but also commandeering, what is it now, 40% of the Western hemispheres. Is it global? or Western hemispheres resource supply, oil and gas resource supply. But even more recently,

us taking two Russian tankers, or they were flagged as Russian, who knows what they were, they were black market oil tankers. Do you see, and it's really hard to back into this conversation, Tom, after having just had a big conversation about whether or not we're all living in a simulation, but do you see the economic benefit here? Like what we've done in Venezuela and giving us power over the what is right now the energy bedrock. Yeah, you have to look at this in a timeline perspective. So if you look at this in the short term, yeah, probably a lot of upside. If you look at this in the long term, you further alienate your allies. You push people deeply away from the US dollar. The petra dollar is already starting to break up. So it's one

of those. We're going to have to see how this plays out. You had to do something about China. You cannot let China have footholds in your hemisphere that I think is when you recontextualize all of this not as about drugs or even like deeply about oil the oil is a very very real part of this but you look at it as Thucydides trap which people haven't heard that so um the last 16 times that a declining empire collided with a rising empire like the u.s as the declining empire China is the rising empire 12 times of those 16 times so 75 percent war was the result. So you cannot look at the setup that we have right now and think anything other than we at least have to be prepared for war and we for sure in the same way that we could not have Russia putting nuclear missiles into Cuba. We cannot have China getting a deeper and deeper foothold in the Panama Canal in Venezuela, anywhere in the Americas for that matter. So we had to do something. Now whether this ends up being the something that we ought to have done, that only time will tell. This is going to really be an equation that the world is going to run

between who's more trustworthy in the long term. Would you rather have your assets tied up with massive U.S. exposure or massive China exposure? Right now, there's no way to escape those two things. Now, China's doing something very smart, and they are backing their yuan with gold, but we'll see if that's going to be enough. And right now, that's not a close question. It's an easy answer. The world, by any rational and objective, truth-based explanation, would choose the United States for a variety of reasons. That doesn't mean that is a permanent condition. But right now, it is a, it's not a close call. Let me ask you, Will, as you make that very bold statement. It's not a close call. If that's not a close call, why is more and more, I think in

the 90s, late 90s, it was like 72 percent of all. global trade was in US dollars is now like 58% so the world is moving away from the dollar and have been for decades so someone somewhere thinks eh not a bad idea to get out from under the US dollar why do you think that won't continue a pace and do you think that the move in Venezuela is neutral to that movement better for us in that way that meaning fewer people will move away from the dollar or do you think it will accelerate the move away from the dollar. Well, okay, I don't think that decline that you describe, while significant is dramatic over the arc that you just painted over several decades, I think it also doesn't suggest a flood

into the yuan. I don't know the numbers on the yuan off the top of my head, but we've seen the rise of crypto. There was an attempt at one time to see this rise of the bricks as well. But I think over the long arc, the world bends towards stability and safety, risk aversion. And I think that this is where domestic politics becomes so important that we are the most stable. We are simply the most stable civilization and most successful civilization on earth. China is a bit like a high flyer during the tech bubble. It's attractive in what people want to see that tomorrow will be a brighter day for China. But that takes a lot of risk tolerance and belief of a sunny tomorrow for China when that population does not suggest you can bank on stability.

Part of that stability, again, domestic politics becomes really important. Are we a declining empire domestically? Are we on the verge of chaos? We've got a story in Minnesota today that continues to show the fractures inside of America. But outside of our borders, I think strength is stability. So taking Venezuela, we'll use that phrase loosely, taking Venezuela, is strength. Strength is stability. I'm curious how this is going to play out with the whole Greenland deal. Donald Trump said today that his goal for next year, 2027 budget, is $1.5 trillion in military spending, up from 900,

right now. So I think he sees the world somewhat, as you just described it as well, prepare, prepare for the worst. And I think all of that bends the art towards the safe haven being the United States. It's not a guaranteed bet, mostly because of domestic issues, not international issues. Yeah. Listen, I'll give you my perspective, but for anybody that's encountering me for the first time, the core of my identity is that I recognize I do not see the future clearly. routinely be surprised and so all I care about is identifying the right answer as fast as humanly possible. I'm just not afraid to put a mile marker and say, well, here's how I'm thinking about it today. The way that I'm thinking about it today is that we are doing untold damage to our international reputation. Whether that's right or wrong is irrelevant. So even if you think, yeah, Tom, sure, we're doing damage to our reputation with Europe, but Europe has become unhinged. We have to decouple. Okay, great, but we're still. doing damage to our reputation with Europe by saying we are getting Greenland no matter what we do damage to our reputation as being a place of stability when we put all the sanctions on Russia

when we go and kidnap a horrible dictator but nonetheless go in and kidnap a horrible dictator from his country other countries go huh this if I am in some way useful to the United States they could turn on me at any time if they deem it to be advantageous to them Now, I'm a big believer. America should be doing something, a lot of somethings, to protect their position as completely owning and dominating the Western Hemisphere, a thousand percent. I do not think we should go quietly into that good night. I think that we need to refine our conviction as a nation and say there is a reason that for the last 250 years,

we have been the rising superpower, and we are going to stop doing the things that we know make for the fall of every empire. before us they have all fallen for the same reasons and we're doing the same thing so we have to balance our budget so until i see us balance our budget i will say that we are on the decline that you don't have to look any further you can and you will certainly find more things but as long as your budget is not balanced you are stealing from your populace you are weakening yourself and at the same time you're doing cowboy moves internationally which i believe is going to accelerate the move away from the dollar will not happen overnight but it will continue to accelerate rate. And if you don't have a market for your debt, and this is where people do not understand,

America monetizes debt. Like that is the vast majority of our economy. And if you don't understand that monetizing your debt weakens you every day, then you're going to be very surprised when we get into a situation where, I mean, just to run one quick scenario, Japan's long-term rates go too high and we stop being able to get Japan, which has been propping up the global economy for a very long time. That stops working. Enough people go, I'd rather have gold-backed deals or even just buy oil in a basket of currencies and not be trapped just to the dollar. And so by doing that, there's just less demand for your debt, which means the only way to cover your interest payments and your unbalanced budget is to print money, which is inflationary. And now you just

get into a flywheel. Do I think it's going to happen overnight? Obviously not. But do I think that this puts us in an increasingly weakened position? Yes. And Americans right now, at least half, do not believe in themselves. They do not believe that we should be as strong as humanly possible. They actively want to see us weakened because they do not understand what it looks like when a different bully arrives and starts slapping you around. Let's take a quick break, but we'll be right back on Will Cain Country. Here's where we agree and here's where we disagree. I agree with your entire diagnosis of domestic issues in America,

both the psyche of Americans and the more concrete, we need to balance our budget. We can't be running a debt that's dependent upon monetizing the debt, which means you're dependent upon other countries buying your debt. Where we disagree is I'm not, this is going to sound trite, and this is going to, I'm, it sounds cavalier, and I'm being overly so by saying this, but the lion doesn't concern himself with the opinion of the sheep. And the truth is when it comes to international stuff, I don't believe in the existence of international law.

I think it's all bullshit. I think that I'm not endorsing this. I'm just describing reality. Might is right. And the United States is might. And for too long we've pretended that we're not. And we've made bad decisions as well in how we've exerted that might. We need better decision-making and better judgment and what that means.

but I don't think even let's take an extreme scenario which I don't think is going to happen but an extreme scenario we militarily take Greenland I don't think that the Europeans assuming they all have Denmark's back have a place to flood there is no place to go you know there there is no other country you know even the commodities which you brought up a basket of oil and gas that's the United States that's what we just in part did with Venezuela you have to go somewhere with your money you have to you have to you have to you have have to find your place to invest, your place for security. And this is where I don't think it's a close call again. Like, what are you going to do? You're going to invest in India? You think that's

more stable? You think that's better? There's nowhere else to go. So the lion might as well make decisions that is best for the lion. If we were united as a country, I'd be like, yeah, I get that. It's a high risk strategy because you're going to alienate all of your allies is because they feel like they have to do what you say instead of being seduced. But we're not united as a country. But by the way, Tom, I think that's the way it is. I think that's, I think I'm described. I think when you boil it all down, that's what international relations is.

It's a falsehood of friendships. I'm not saying we don't have allies to some degree. We don't get along with other countries, some better than others and so forth. But the whole like, I have to because you're the bully, that's just the real world out there. I agree. and for anybody that's confused about what great power politics is, it is was and always will be that whoever is strong can do as they will and the weak will suffer as they must.

That is the way the world has been set up. I totally agree. But think about parents. So parents can rule with an iron fist. And if their kid says no to something, they can get a slap. They can get hit with the belt. The PlayStation can get yanked out of the wall and smash into a million pieces because you didn't listen and go to bed and that's that.

or you can think about the long-term psychological well-being of your children and you say, okay, my job is to make them resilient and strong. So there actually is a certain amount of pushback that they are going to do. So I'm going to engage in some of that. And I'm only going to draw a hard and fast line and you do it because I said so at a certain point because you're trying to get kids that are cooperating not being coerced. And I think if we all step back and think about how we, were raised all of that like i'll just use my mom as an example god bless her um she always engaged

with me as a human and would talk to me and explain things and all of that and then there was a certain line and she would spank me slap me whatever needed to be done to make sure that i complied uh i never felt abused uh i always felt loved it was incredible and so i go out of my way to thank my mother for having the backbone to uh make sure that there were bumpers in the alleyways so that i didn't get myself in trouble but at the same time i'm equally grateful for her infusing in me a sense of self-esteem and belief and feeling like, you know, my thoughts mattered in that I was not just to be seen and not heard and all of that. So anyway, or think about a relationship with a sexual partner. You can seduce or you can be aggressive and dominant

and all that. And I would just say seduction goes a long way even when you don't have to. Seduction goes a long way even when you don't have to. I'm going to take that. one home and think about that a little bit longer. And it'll be a perfect button for the last question I'm going to ask you, but one more before we get to the last topic. Just because you've been involved in the industry, and it happened yesterday, the inversion of the food pyramid under HHS and Robert F. Kennedy, meat, fat, vegetables at the top, complex, processed carbs at the bottom, which is an inversion. Again, I think you're roughly in the same age range as me, which is an inversion of what we saw in the elementary school cafeteria.

you. It's wild. I'm so grateful. It really matters. So a drum that I beat forever is trying to get people to understand you're having a biological experience. Whether, again, I don't care if it's a simulated biological experience or it's literal. It doesn't matter. You are still in this body. Why would anyone's simulation make them obese? That was one thing I thought about. Like, are we in control of our simulations or who's in control of the simulation? Because I'm there's a lot of I can actually answer this in the simulation. It's so unfair. I totally get it.

But there really is an answer. So most people don't know, but part of what we do at Impact Theory is build video games. When you build a video game, you start creating this virtual world and you suddenly realize, oh, the world is far more interesting and dynamic if you build it simply on a set of rules. But once you set up a set of rules, rather than saying this character is going to do exactly this, this person is going to do exactly that, and you just start setting up rules, you get support. And so then there are consequences because the rules, like, interact with each other. So it is decidedly unfair that ice cream covered in chocolate syrup is not the thing that gives

you six-pack abs. Nobody is more sad about that than I am. But the reality is that because it's based on a set of rules and we were evolved in a totally different time period than the one that we're living in now, once you start going from like hunting and catching something is very hard and finding. a beehive that has honey in it is very difficult and dangerous. And so it happens very rarely. And so I, as God or evolution, I've got to really incentivize you to face danger to get

that honey because it's so rich in calories. And so you're going to go and get it. So you have this huge drive, make it super tasty, make you want it really badly. The bad news is when you can just harvest that, put it in any grocery store, put it in cereals, ah, and you can find sugar everywhere. Now all of a sudden, food manufacturers can use all of your natural. impulses against you. And that's exactly what we've seen happen is you're making food hyper palatable, not understanding that those were the things that were ultra scarce, very hard to get. They have a

metabolic price when consumed in high quantities, but are fine when they're really hard to get and you have to expend a ton of energy to find them, blah, blah, blah. So seeing the inversion is finally us saying, listen, I get that those other things are tasty, however, or even shelf stable, easy, cheap, but there's a huge metabolic cost. And so we're finally just getting back to, from a cellular perspective, what should we be eating? Not going to make a moral case, but I am going to tell you, you are made of the things that are in meat, given that you are quite literally what you eat. Nobody should be surprised that eating meat is going to be good for you.

So, yeah, I'm very happy to see these changes. Yeah, yeah. Okay, here's the button on this conversation. seduction has value even when you don't need to. I made this light joke before I jumped into this conversation with you, Tom. And with your sort of futuristic projections and AI and robotics, you can go deeper because we already began the conversation about what it means to live a life of meaning and purpose.

And honestly, Tom, I'll be real with you. Like when you start talking about simulations, these kind of things, ultimately it's going to the arc of the conversation and the philosophical contemplation is going to bend back toward the existence. of God, as the rulemaker, as the creator of the simulation, of whatever it may be. That's my personal belief. And when I think about how you seek purpose beyond being an economic unit, it does, again, bend the arc back toward God.

But family formation is part of this, in your description, simulation that we live in right now. It is integral to purpose. It is integral to meaning. It is integral, by the way, has been throughout time, to us, honestly, as economic units. That's declining. That's probably in part why family formation is declining as well. Because kids used to make you money. They worked the farm, so forth.

Now kids don't. Now they're economic, they're an economic drag, not an economic surplus. But that being said, family formation is still key to the future of humanity. And I just wonder if this AI robotics thing, look, we already know porn is like one of the biggest things on the internet. We already know that people have sex with blow-up dolls. There's probably people out there already have some kind of humanoid robot they're having sex with. It's just not mass marketed. I just don't think we're far away.

And I make this joke, but I'm serious too for somebody saying, hey, mom, dad, here's my fiancé. She's a robot. I think that's very real. That is going to happen. It's going to happen faster and in more quantity than people are prepared for. Yeah, that one is very distressing. I do not have kids. But nonetheless, this is one.

of the things that I worry about for parents. I think it is very worthwhile to worry. I do think that family formation is hugely important. I am, I often will thank parents for their service because I am so grateful for people that have kids. I want to see more people have kids. And so despite the fact that I did not, I consider it the default path. So if you want meaning and purpose in your life, it's not the only way to have meaning and purpose, but boy, is it the default. It is what nature wants you to do. Nature wants you to have kids that have kids. And so much of the meaning and purpose apparatus is going to be met simply by having children and raising them well. Obviously, it's an extremely difficult job. And that's part of why I believe that doing hard things

is baked into the formula for fulfillment. And that if things come easy, you won't have a sense of meaning and purpose. It's why rich kids implode. So you want something that is difficult. You want to lean into the hard. You want to do it well. You want to rise to the challenge, rise to the occasion. And doing that in the microcosm of the family is, I think, the surest path to finding fulfillment. It does not work for everybody. Some people get completely overwhelmed. In bad economic times, it's that much harder for sure. But yes, that is an incredibly high utility path if you are trying to live a life of meaning and purpose. Tom, Bill, you impact theory.

Check them out on YouTube. I appreciate you giving me so much time. I have no idea what was asked or what was budgeted, but I appreciate you giving me almost an hour here to hang out and talk. It's been a fascinating conversation. Thank you, Tom. Brother, this has been wonderful. Anytime you want to have me on, let me know.

Okay, Tom, Bill U, thank you so much. We'll talk again. Check about an impact theory on YouTube. By the way, you guys have already started the way in. this one on Facebook, Diane Mayer, says, your quest is interesting, but needs a much longer interview. You're doing an excellent job, Will, perfect fit for this gentleman. Best point he makes is we need meaning and purpose.

I believe we will work it out and adapt. It's like, who moved my cheese time period? We conquered that. One hour with Tom Bill, you, and I agree that could go much longer, but you can always consume him at his own YouTube as well, Impact 3. Let's break it down. Let's bring in tin foil pat, two a days, Dan. Let's break it all down.

And I do have some things to say about Jacob Fry and Tim Walts when we come back on Wilcane Country. It is Wilcane Country streaming live at the Wilcane Country YouTube channel. Wilcane on Facebook. And on-demand as Spotify and Apple tinfoil pat. Two at a days, Dan, jumping into the conversation along with you. the Wallisha, which over on YouTube now, American Nightmare 2109 says, the Amish will be the only ones left. I wouldn't choose that path.

It's an intoxicating path? No, I don't laugh. I genuinely consider this, Dan. Like, which path? I think it's fascinating. I'm a sucker for bullet points. I'm a sucker for options. I'm a sucker for one, two, three, four.

And looking at the paths laid out by Tom Bill U amidst this AI revolution. One, Dune. Unabomber, Unabomber, live life off the grid, live life real. Two, choose hard mode, the American experience, which of course is going to be intoxicating to me. But be the explorer, be the frontiersman. He points out 80% died, but that's the person looking to go to Mars. Three, hedonism, drugs, alcohol, check out, feel good. Four is build an existence inside the virtual world.

I don't think, although it is attractive, to me, I don't know if it is to you guys or to one out there, the Amish mode is interesting because to me it is real. But I don't think that I would choose that if American Nightmare 2109 is choosing that. I think I'd be like Freedom Q9L. life in hard mode. I just find difficulty in hardship, which there would be with that Amish mode. But difficulty

and hardship combined with ambition and purpose for me is the most fulfilling life. Two days, Dan's 10-4-Path. Dan's already said, Pat, you're an acolyte. You're a Tom Bill U acolyte. Well,

I've never heard him say this exact thing before. I mean, to be fair, I haven't watched a whole lot of things in the last three years but yeah I mean I've actually I've literally thought about this because I was watching a video about the making of Crash Bandicoot

back in the day and how they figured out they only had so much space to build the system and so what they would do is the block the block that they created they'd only fill in an area around it and because like they only had so much

limited space and so and then when you moved to a new block the block behind you would go away and it would fill in the new blocks like the moon and so on and so forth right kind of like what he was saying like um it's it's like the things are only created when you need them so like if i don't need you will i know you exist in my mind but like i don't hear you talk until you know like you don't you don't come into formula in my world in my awareness until i need you

you know yeah Dan does not exist I'm not real right now he's real now because you need him but like if you didn't need him I've been saying this forever

he's unloaded he's unloaded until he needs to be loaded again did Billy the kid exist hmm I mean right what is existence but did Alexander the Great

did Alexander the Great these people aren't present in your life and if your memory is the same thing as needing someone to exist i have trouble with this total endorsement of subjective reality and to some extent the simulation theory which i'm not rejecting outright because who am i and how smart am i enough to reject simulation it rejects the concept of objective reality and maybe i am too much of an acolyte of iron rand It's some of the first most formative books that I read and her foundational philosophy is objectivism. It's starting with, starting with, you start with that there is an observation of an objective reality beyond your existence. And to some extent, another thing that turns me off on this is the modern day left is a full endorsement of subjective reality, my truth, your truth, that the only thing that exists is your experiential.

experiential version of the world and I just don't I can't sign on I just can't get on that roller coaster but where does religion fit into this too I mean you know

because there's got to be an aspect of that in belief and what's happening you know is there is that your one theory well I don't reject the power of belief there is power of belief but that is not just to change

your it can change and it should. I'm also not denying the existence of subjective reality. We all see things through our own lens. I get that, right? And I think belief has the power to frame your mind, to frame your subjective reality. But it doesn't end with you. And your belief and power enables your subjective reality, which in turn, you think has the ability to change objective reality. Like your happiness is your subjective interaction with. the world. Your wealth is your objective interaction with the world. All of those things are at play with one another. But for the full-on simulation, it's a rejection of that final step, that your subjective interpretation interaction with the world has any relationship to an objective world. I think Tom would agree with you in a lot of ways. So like when he's talking about building video games and essentially that's what this would be is you're kind of in like a video game there still is objective reality like you was saying so there is an element of objective reality

where you make certain rules and certain things happen based on the choices that are made by the individuals within that reality but you know it's really just about the frame just kind of like we talked about with like Tony Robbins with the blue and the red in the room you know that's That's what we talk about, like, or Scott Adams talks about with like changing the frames. And you can't, you can't change like, are you a man or a woman in the reality? Because those are things that are objectively true based on the rules within the reality. But you can change certain frames within it to view things. And our lives are just decisions we make constantly, whether big or small, within those realities.

And that's all, everything's made up of. Well, I think Patrick's invocation of Tony Robbins, when he was with us, and he did it on the Theo Vaughn podcast, I thought it's fascinating. Look around the room, and I want you to memorize and look at everything in the room that is red. Okay, you ready? Now tell me everything in the room that is brown. And you can't because you were focused on everything that is red. So everything that was brown ceased to not exist, but be perceived by you in that objection. See, that's the thing.

The brown still exists. it's in there. And I liked what he had to say about you only actually see so much with the world. We can't see infrared. We can't see these things. So like our interpretation of objective reality is also very limited. Like we have only a certain frame through which we see it. Anyway, I do wonder, by the way, you out there in the wish, this went way deeper and more philosophical. I find it fascinating. I also find it utilitarian to some degree. I actually think it's going to be important. And I think it's going to be more important as exactly he describes AI, because. comes much more a part of our life. But I will be interested to see what your, is it naval gazing? Is it utilitarian? Is it interesting? I'll be interesting to hear that from you, the Willisha. Thomas Edward Brady says, the one thing AI can't replace his relationships, have good ones in your industry, and you'll be fine. I don't know. We just talked about those sexual relationships with robots. And then Jay Elliott 8374 says, without empathy, how will AI not turn on itself and fail miserably. I do think that's, that is not something I can explore in depth right now, but I think that

observation is deep. Like, what is AI's ability to reconcile with itself at some point? You know what I mean? When, when rules compete, when it has different directives, when it, I think there's like real, real stuff to explore. By the way, we're having this philosophical conversation, which can be navel gazing. I got, I hope somebody's having that inside of Open AI. God, I hope somebody's having these conversations. I do it on Saturdays. Inside of Meta and Gemini and Google, alphabet. I hope somebody's having it who's creating these AIs. Hey, I want to share with you a little bit because this fired me up. And it's happening right now as well. Governor Tim Walts today is giving another press conference because yesterday's was absolutely embarrassing. Yesterday,

what we saw in the wake of the officer involved shooting, the ICE officer involved shooting in Minneapolis, which is a tragedy. A woman lost her life. I will tell you, I don't know if the officer exercised perfect judgment. I don't know had he not done that. Was his life in real danger at that moment? Was she simply fleeing? I don't know. But I will tell you, in the pie chart of assignment of blame, the officer who pulls the trigger to me has the smallest slice of blame. A very large slice belongs to the woman herself, and you have to use common sense to ask yourself, would you put yourself in that position not acknowledging the risk? Meaning, reports are she was at the head of a protest, a head of a protest that intended to interfere with a law enforcement interaction. Her car was literally the lead in this thing.

She was then blocking law enforcement, and then when approached by law enforcement, she goofed it, reversed, then forward. And just kind of common sense, do you do any of those actions? sequentially put them in order. Leave your child at home. She had a child, 37 years old, to go do this, to put herself in that physical position on that street, interacting with officers in that way. How would she not shoulder, if not the majority, the significant percentage of the blame? Because I reserve another large piece of the pie. I reserve another large piece of the pie for the politicians that put these, and this is so dismissive, I don't want to call them NPCs, but. characters in motion, these people who believe they live in a high school drama theater, political version of the world. And there's politicians who play them, who are playing them. And they are politicians who for a long time have described ICE as thugs, kidnappers, Gestapo. Those politicians are culpable. And they include people like Governor Tim Walts, who afterwards described Minnesota as at war with the federal government

and threatened his use, his tool of the Minnesota National Guard. We do not need any further help from the federal government. To Donald Trump and Christy Knoem, you've done enough. There's nothing more important than Minnesota's safety. I've issued a warning order to prepare the Minnesota National Guard. We have soldiers in training and prepared to be deployed if necessary. I remind you, a warning order is a heads up for folks. And these National Guard troops are our National Guard troops.

They're teachers in your community, they're business owners, their construction professionals. They are Minnesotans. Minnesota will not allow our community to be used as a prop in a national political fight. We will not take the bait. In this clip, he is not suggesting the use of the Minnesota National Guard to quell riots on the streets. to Minnesota. He is actually, maybe in moments he did, but largely, he's not talking to people in Minnesota. He's talking to Donald Trump. He's talking to the feds. Now, you're talking about, in my mind, the biggest standoff between states and the fed since the 1960s, since school

integration, since the National Guard showing up in Arkansas, ensuring young black women could show up to an integrated school. You're talking about the most insurrection-y talk since the 1960s. And I think I'm being fair. I'm not going back to the 1860s. which I could because this is beyond absurd. Jacob Fry, the mayor of Minneapolis, says, ICE, get the F out of Minnesota. The way that these politicians are talking, on the heels

of everything they did to lay the groundwork in the front, they are culpable. And now what is their reaction? Calling it murder. Dan Goldman, Democrat Congressman. James Tala Rico, state rep, Democrat in Texas who's running for Senate. But that's just two.

It's like a talking point that went out. The talking point is described the protester as a legal observer and call it murder, which is the height of irresponsibility. You have no access to the investigation. You are out in front of due process. You have condemned a federal agent, a public servant, based upon a few social media videos. By the way, there's also about 15 angles of that video that showed that the officer was in front of the car. She did gas it into him.

He was dragged a year ago in Minneapolis, and he makes a split-second decision. And you yelled murder? Oh, by the way, as ridiculous as these politicians are, comedians still have to be the most. Here's Jimmy Kimmel. You know what? Maybe they're trying, I know what they're doing. They're trying out a new slogan. Donald J. Trump is going to kill you.

That's pretty good, right? He isn't just killing people overseas. An ICE agent today shot and killed an unarmed 37-year-old woman during an ICE operation in Minneapolis. They're there under the guise of protecting us. Donald J. Trump is going to kill you. That's the T-shirt he holds up. And then he said he killed an American citizen.

Donald Trump killed an American citizen. Look, are we an unstable country with the characteristics of a declining empire? Well, if this is who we are and how we interact with one another, the answer is yes. If we can't share an objective reality and look at that situation and say, here's who's to blame, here's what happened. Here's an opinion that's not a rush to judgment. Then, yeah, it's dark for America. Quickly before we go, Dan, ten, what's up? but don't you think

I mean it's an incredible tragedy and I have my own opinions on it but don't you think the left was just waiting for this moment to happen with us you know this was just a catalyst asking for it they were waiting for it this was the moment it was not just waiting

yeah hoping asking looking for the 2026 George Floyd moment the only disappointment for them is it was the wrong the wrong kind of person

hey I think meaning racially yes meaning racially i mean i actually think it's a fair comment like what we how different and we got we got protests happening right now right we have protests happening right now but i do think it's fair to ask how would that protest look what would be going on minneapolis if the characters in their high school plays they see themselves in this were different if it were a minority and i think we know the answer because we all lived

through 2020. All right, that's going to do it for us today here on Will Cain Country. We appreciate you hanging out. Long conversation with Tom Bill U. and we appreciate him hanging out with us as well. Spotify, Apple, Facebook, YouTube. We'll see you again next time. Listen to ad-free with a Fox News podcast plus subscription on Apple Podcast.

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