Will Cain Country - Which Power 2 Conference Controls College Football with Barrett Sallee

Episode Date: August 9, 2024

On this edition of The Will Cain Show’s Friday sports episode, Will breaks down who the dominate conference is in College Football between the 'Power 2' of the SEC and Big Ten with OutKick's Barrett Sallee. Will the SEC get more than 4 teams into the new 12 team playoff? Plus, will the new scholarship rules spell the end of the walk on? So long, Rudy? Tell Will what you thought about this podcast by emailing [e-mail]   Subscribe to The Will Cain Show on YouTube here: Watch The Will Cain Show!   Follow Will on Twitter: @WillCain Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Georgia versus Ohio State, Texas versus Oregon, Bama versus Penn State, SEC versus Big Ten, let's break down that, plus our 12-team playoff bracket with Outkicks, Barrett Salad. It's the Will Kane Show at Fox News Podcasts, always available on Apple or Spotify, and always available Monday through Thursday, live at foxnews.com, the Fox News YouTube channel and the Fox News Facebook page. Today is a Friday cane on sports sports exclusive edition of the Will Kane show. It's here. Football season is here.

And we thought we'd get it ready by comparing the power to the big conferences, SEC and the big 10, which is the better conference head to head? We'll use that and get ourselves into a conversation of who will be in the 12-team playoff. Plus, I don't know if you know this, but NCAA scholarship limits have just been expanded from Waterpull having four and a half to having something like 18. Now every sport can have a full roster, soccer, from 10 to 28. Now every sport can have a full roster of scholarship. So what does that mean for Olympic sports, for non-revenue-generating sports, for your favorite college?

What's it mean for college football? We're going to break all that down together with the host of the covered and smothered podcast. It's Outkicks Barrett Sally on the Will Kane Show. Joining me now, Outkick columnist. He's the host of the college football smothered and covered podcast. He is Barrett Sally and he's here on the Will Cane Show. What's up, Barrett? Oh, just enjoying one day closer to college football season.

It actually booked my flights to Ireland to cover Florida State Georgia Tech in week zero. So very excited about that. We are here. It's here, man. It's get ready time. And I want to show you something that I just got on my phone. I don't know if this is going to show up. I'm going to hold my phone up to the camera.

For anyone listening, this says, Gift, 24, Ireland travel guide, Dublin, Ireland. I just got my welcome packet. Love it. Because Barrett, my son will be participating in this weekend of football in Dublin, Ireland. This is Florida State, Georgia Tech, as you point out. But apparently they package high school football games around this Georgia Tech, Florida State matchup.

College Game Day will be there. And one of the games they've packaged around it is, and hold your laughter until I'm done talking. IMG Academy against the Episcopal School of Dallas. And my son is the kicker and punter for the Episcopal School of Dallas taking on, I have been assured. I have been assured, Barrett. IMG2, IMG3, IMDJV, something.

Please tell me, dear God, it's not IMG. Yeah, I don't know your son's team, but I guarantee you it's not as good as IMG Academy. I guarantee that is as much of a football factory as you could possibly have. So good luck with that. But it's going to be a good time. Honestly, like it's so unique going to go into Ireland. And then you have a conference game, not only just a conference game, but with the team that should have made the playoff last year,

it has a ton of questions. It's a great way to start the season. There's no doubt. my son's school is tiny there's like a hundred kids per class not a football factory state champions in lacrosse esd my son is the kicker and punter and i said to him get ready bud you're going to be doing some punting and i hope my goal for you as much as possible aside from that and my goal for you is get the punt off of your foot i don't care about hang time i don't care about distance those dudes are going to come barreling through your little private schools line and if you

get out of there without a blocked punt i think we mark this one up as in a victory it's like have you seen unnecessary roughness where pop he gets the uh the snap and he's running behind the ref blow the whistle blow the whistle and then he gets popped by like seven guys i'm afraid it could literally be like that i i do think it's not i m g of course is the famous athletic academy, it's not only football, it's tennis, it's every sport where they bring in guys on scholarship. And they're a professional athlete academy that is under the banner of a high school. And you name it, you and I could rattle off guys who went to IMG who are in the NFL.

But I do think they have multiple teams. Not that I think that makes it any better. I'm assuming their second and fourth team are incredible as well. But I can't believe, yeah. I won't be going to Dublin, so I need you to swing on over. And give my son a high five. I will, which should be, as you point out, that should be an awesome experience, Dublin, Ireland, Florida State, Georgia Tech. But we're here, man, we're here.

It is college football time. I want to have a conversation with you today where we walk through maybe who you think is going to make the 12-team playoff in a season that is on the frontier. We've got new rules. We've got new conferences. We've got new playoff bracket. And we'll get through that. And I want to talk about at least one of these new rules coming in a year from now with you as well. And that's the increase in scholarship limits for schools in all sports across collegiate athletics.

But I want to start with this. The athletic, Barrett, has an interesting matchup. It is basically SEC versus Big Ten, top to bottom, one through 16, matching up in the way, say, college basketball often does when they have a, you know, Big 12 versus SEC, you know, non-com. conference tournament. If they did that in football, the question is, of the big two, that's what we're becoming a big two, who's the big one? Is it the big 10 or the SEC? And so I thought maybe you and I would just go through it together and pretend they're going

head to head and we'll start with 1V1. In the athletics estimation, that's Georgia against Ohio State, Barry. Sure. Yeah, I mean, I hope this is the national championship game and I actually think it will be the national championship game. I would give the nod to Georgia right now. And it's because of the quarterback position. Ohio State's loaded everywhere except quarterback. It seems like it's going to be Will Howard. Will Howard lost his job at Kansas State to Avery Johnson. He's not a big game quarterback. Carson Beck is. So Ryan Day has options there with Julian Sayan, who has been awesome in fall camp.

He can go Devin Brown. He can go Aaron Nolan. But if he goes Will Howard, then it's going to be hard for me to trust Ohio State. The beauty for Ohio State is that they can ease into the season a little bit. And if Will Howard struggles, which I think he will, then Ryan Day has time to tinkle with it a little bit. Georgia doesn't need to. The only issue that Georgia has in my mind is at wide receiver slash pass catcher because Brock Bowers is tied in. He's no, longer there. Ladd McConkey, the NFL folks love him. All of us in college were like, yeah, where have y'all been? Ladd's been incredible. So, you know, they've got receivers at Georgia. They've got a good tight-in in Oscar Delta, but none of them are really proven, but they're all ultra-talented. So for me, I kind of compare Georgia to the Alabama teams of the mid-2010s. It's like somebody goes into a science building on campus and just clones the latest iteration of the same guy. And so I think Georgia will be just fun. that's an interesting analogy both the clone and Alabama because it's almost as though their success can become taken for granted and become boring

I'm not as interested in talking about Georgia. In fact, I want to lean into Ohio State for a second. I think Ohio State is separating themselves from the rest of the Big Ten. And that quarterback depth chart that you just rattled off, for anyone that might not be aware, let's just kind of explain what you just did. Will Howard is the transfer quarterback with experience from Kansas State. And he's a dual threat.

He can run. So he'll be an interesting addition to Ohio State. But to your point, Julian Sayan, five-star, if I remember correctly, might have been the top overall recruit in the country in the year that he came out. Devin Brown, four-star from California, if I remember correctly, could have gone anywhere, absolutely anywhere, and said he chose to sit behind. At that time, it was Quinn Ewers and Tate Martel

and a bunch of guys at Ohio State. And then Aaron Nolan's one of the top quarterbacks to come in this year. Like, that's three top-tier quarterbacks. And it's not that Ohio State Barrett survives attrition because Quinn Ewer's, Texas quarterback, transferred out of Ohio State. But they're just hanging. Their depth is really fascinating. At quarterback, at receiver, they just reload.

They put three guys in the first round or the first round, too. And next thing you know, they got a top tenor next year, right? I don't know. There's something about Ohio State. And as somebody who pays particular attention to Texas, Barrett, like Texas recruiting in general, Ohio State, and for that matter, Oregon, are the threats in the state of Texas right now out of state? Georgia and Alabama, yes, but I'm shocked at how much traction Ohio State and Oregon have

in Texas and nationally. They're separating, I think, at the Big Ten. Yeah, there's no doubt they are. And we'll see you with Michigan. I mean, there's so much roster turnover at Michigan right now. So it's like one of those things where, okay, at the end of the season, they might be great. Right now, it's almost impossible to determine one way or the other. other. But I do agree with you with Oregon. Ohio State, you're 100% right. And in terms of

quarterback, Julian Sayan was at Alabama like five months ago. He signed as an early enrollee and then left for Ohio State because I think that he understood that he might be able to play immediately in Columbus. And I think that's accurate. But with Oregon, you know, there's a reason that Dan Laining was being mentioned as possibly replacing Nick Sabin at Alabama. it's because he understands not just how to recruit, but what you need to recruit in terms of overall skill set. And that is depth up front, but not just big guys, big guys with speed.

I'm talking about, yeah, you could be 6.5.3.30, but if you don't have feet like a ballerina, he doesn't want you. And so he understands how to go get those guys. And really Oregon's been a threat in the state of Texas. for a little while now. Remember, Chip Kelly back in the early 2010s, he made hay down there, too, to the point where he kind of got in some trouble. But, yeah, Dan Laning has been such a good hire for Oregon. And the way he's been able to not just develop that program in sort of the same mold

as an SEC program, but to do it with guys all over the country when Oregon kind of wasn't that national brand when he got there was kind of i wouldn't say a joke but it's not like mario christopal did a lot to make them nationally relevant and dan landing has and i think that's a big reason why in the big 10 moving forward the class of the big 10 this year certainly is ohio state and Oregon and beyond that it wouldn't surprise me if it stays that way well that that takes us 2 v2 you already talked up Oregon so 2v2 according to athletic is texas taking on Oregon. I agree, by the way.

And I have, I, I am not objective in this fight, but I would readily join you in singing the praises of Oregon. But I, I mean, I feel really confident. I feel objectively confident about Texas this year in a way that I wouldn't have said in the past. Like, I don't know what Texas's weakness is. I mean, the argument is defensive line because they lost, they lost two studs. I'm not working, dude, I had not even, not.

not even a little worried. They're six deep. I can't figure out. Literally, they got six studs. I can't figure out who's not going to play and who is going to want to transfer at receiver. They got Isaiah Bond from Alabama. Matthew Golden from Houston.

With Bond, I wouldn't trust him all that much. Just saying, I wouldn't trust him. They're going to tie in, too. So that'll help. But, you know, with Texas, a great offensive line cures all ills, no matter what it is. And, man, Texas is going to block. There's no doubt about it. So you like Oregon over Texas in that matchup, though, right now?

No, no, no, no, no. I like Texas. I think Texas is legit national championship caliber team. In fact, for those watching, helmet schedules, helmet schedules, wins and losses for every single team. Texas is undefeated in the SEC, undefeated this year, going into Atlanta. Just as a reminder to you, just as a reminder to you and everyone listening. Not necessarily beyond Atlanta.

But just for a reminder to you and everyone else listening, of course there's Texas OU, there's Texas Michigan this year and Texas hosts Georgia. And you're saying Texas comes out of all of that undefeated going into the SEC championship game. Okay, so yes, certain things about that. One, that's going to be the biggest game in Austin in years, maybe decades, when Georgia comes into town.

I was there when LSU came into town in 2019, and it was wild then. It's going to be even bigger. The stadium's been rich. renovated, all that stuff. With Michigan against Texas, okay, maybe at the end of the season, if they played, I might say, okay, it might be a little sketchy. Texas getting Michigan week two is exactly when you want Michigan.

And so, yes, the schedule is tough, but any SEC schedule is tough, and it actually sets up well considering the circumstances for Texas. I think, like, look, again, like offensive line cures all ills. They've got that. Yeah, they lost sweat and some other dudes up front defensively. Sark has, I think, seven guys that can rotate. He's got to find a couple more during fall camp up front on the defensive line. They got talent there.

Losing Baxter at running back is not good because he's out for the season after suffering an injury this week. Jaden Blue is still a fantastic running back. So I think they'll be okay. They're deep. Yeah, I like Jaden Blue. I like some of the freshmen they have on campus when it comes to running back. I think that's one of the few positions a freshman can come in.

You don't feel super weird about the freshman playing, just like rookies in the NFL. That's at running back. We're going to step aside here for a moment. Stay tuned. For a limited time at McDonald's, enjoy the tasty breakfast trio. Your choice of chicken or sausage McMuffin or McGrittles with a hash brown and a small iced coffee for five bucks plus tax. Available until 11 a.m. at participating McDonald's restaurants. Price excludes flavored iced coffee and delivery.

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Michigan, interestingly, they didn't come in as the third ranked Big Ten team. The third rank for both the SEC and the Big Ten is Bama and Penn State. So what are you laughing at? That's a top 10 team in Penn State, and that's Jalen Milrow, and everybody's falling in love with Jalen Milrow. I'm not sure I've fallen in love with Jalen Milrow and Alabama, so who you like between the Crimson Tide and Ninty Lions? Well, Alabama, I like Jalen Milro as long as he has an offensive line. He's great deep. That's what he was good with last year.

He's got some receivers this year. I think they'll be fine with Milro. Penn State's not going to be fine with true, Alice. Drew Aller is, I would say, one of the most underrated quarterbacks in the, or overrated quarterbacks in the entire country. He struggles to complete passes deep downfield. He lost some key weapons in that wide receiving court. Now, they can run the dang ball.

There is no doubt about that. But if we're talking about Penn State versus Alabama, Alabama would absolutely wipe the floor with Penn State. And this is such a critical year for James Franklin at Penn State. Like the 12-team playoff is designed for a team like Penn State, right? Like a team that's like 10 and 2, 9 and 3, pretty darn good, loses the big games, but really takes care of business elsewhere. Well, that's Penn State.

And if James Franklin doesn't make the playoff this year, he is going to be in some big trouble. And I like James Franklin. But this, like I said, this is a perfect situation, a perfect format for Penn State. And if he blows it this time, there's going to be some really, mad people. So I want to get into the 12-team playoff in just a second, but let's just round this out by doing the top five in each, top four in each conference.

And that leads us to Michigan and Ole Miss. And for what it's worth, the only disagreement among the athletic writers was Penn State and Alabama. They're bigger on Penn State than you, but they take the SEC in most of these matchups. They might like Oregon over Texas. But Ole Miss, Michigan, that's one everybody. likes old miss on um and i guess you were laughing about old miss being below pin state but you've also expressed your doubts about michigan at least early in the season and everybody's big on

what lane kiffin's built in miss at mississippi yeah lane's gone all in with the transfer portal and and keeping players on campus retaining players for a roster retention he's going all in like he is throwing his chips the middle of the table first year the playoff understands that the impact making the playoff this season would be would is huge above more than anything else. I would argue Ohio State actually became a power because of the 2014 season. And you have a similar situation where you can just vault yourself into the limelight, so to speak, for multiple seasons. I like Michigan. I don't know what Michigan is. Offensively. I just don't know what they are. I know what Ole Miss is. Great quarterback in Jackson Dart, a phenomenal wide receiving core with Trey Walker. in Jews Wells from South Carolina. The running back, look, the running back situation, they don't have Quinn Sean Judkins.

I think Bentley's just fine. And removing Quinn John Judkins from the, from the depth chart might actually be a good thing off the field. And then all they have to be is adequate defensively. Get some negative plays. And they'll get that. They'll get that. They've recruited well.

They have Ivy back off the edge. And the transfer portal has been very, very good to them, including with Walter Nolan from Texas A&M. So, look, Ole Miss is a team that I think will get to the playoff. I don't know about Michigan. I think Ole Miss will be a team that can get there. And they actually might be a team that can win it if they play slightly above average defense. So I'm extremely high on Ole Miss.

The schedule sets up well. I love Lane. I think it's a perfect setup right now for Ole Miss to become a team that is in the upper echelon, not just in the SEC, but nationally. all right well let's get into the 12 team playoff then i just laid this out for you um i would i love for your picture give me your picture of the 12 team playoff do we'll start with i'll give you questions and you can sort of fill out your field all four SEC teams we just mentioned i would presume you may you you you have in a 12 team playoff that would be correct georgia texas

Alabama and old miss i don't know if all four of those teams go from the big 10 but then of course you've got your group of five, you've got your ACC, you got your big 12 entrants. So fill out the bracket best you can for me before we start the season. So you mentioned big two earlier, big two conferences, right? I think there'll actually be a fifth SEC team, and that'll be LSU. I think LSU, that offense is going to be just fine. They have six returning offensive line. And last I checked, you only start five.

I mean, that's how deep they are up front. And the reason I have five SEC teams is because, what you just said, it's the big two in the Big Ten, and there's a pretty significant gap. I think Michigan's going to lose some games. I just told you about Penn State. So I think usually you will have those two conferences with the comparable amount of teams, right? Three, four, whatever. But I think the top end of the SEC is so top heavy, and the Big Ten is not that you're going to have a little bit disproportionate amount of teams in the SEC this year.

I think the Big Ten gets Oregon in on top of Ohio State. And it's so interesting because the remaining two automatic bids for conference championships get seeded three and four, right? You're talking about Clemson, Oklahoma State, Florida State, Utah? I mean, you're talking some interesting teams for seeds three and four. I think it'll be Clemson. I think Oklahoma State out of the Big 12 is going to be fascinating this year. year, experience, upfront, quarterback, best running back in the country, Nali Gordon,

and nobody's talking about them. What happens when nobody talks about a Mike Gundy coach football team? They become the greatest football team of all time. Like, that's what happens. So, you know, I think that's kind of where I see the top four, and then you're going to get a muddled mess outside of the SEC. I think Notre Dame gets in. This schedule sets up well.

You know, Texas State A&M in Week 1, I'm not necessarily that worried about. But then, you know, a team like Memphis out of the group of five, I think Memphis is really, really good. Seth Henniger, their quarterback's been there for like 75 years. Like he's got he's got AARP benefits at this point. And, you know, Seth Hennigan is a guy who's been around the block. So, you know, and I think beyond that, who didn't I mention? I think that's it. I think that's a Florida State.

Florida State, I think is a team that if DJ Yui Young-LLA is anywhere close to what he was when he signed with Clemson four years ago, I think they're going to be just fine. And I think Florida State has a lot of revenge on its mind. And again, the schedule kind of sets up well for the Seminoles. Congratulations on saying that name. That's the hardest name to say in sports right now. It used to be Ante Cumpo, but everybody figured out.

Everybody figured out how to say Ante Coupo. I still can't say DJ's name. I can't, Oongolalee? What is it? Ubi Yunga Llele. And I tell you what, By the end, by middle of the season, there will be a new toughest name to pronounce.

And that is Tennessee quarterback. Nico I Amaliaava. That one's easier for me. I don't think I've ever said I, Oamilava before, but I've read it. I've read it and I haven't quit. I haven't quit halfway through reading it. On DJ Ui Ungolalele, I quit.

Like I get to the G and I'm like out, even reading it, much less saying it. But if he gets good on the bright side, DJ, if you get good, everyone will be able to say it like they can say, Ante Cumpo, no. I can't say it. So here's your picture. You said five SEC teams. You gave me two big 10 teams in Ohio State and Oregon.

That's up to seven. Now I need my big 12 automatic entrance. You gave me Oklahoma State. Oklahoma State. I need my AC, I need my ACC automatic entrance. You gave me Clemson. Now I'm at nine. Then you got my group of five automatic entrance.

We'll get to Florida State in a second. but you gave me my group of five automatic entrance, which was Memphis, putting me at 10. So now I'm at two at-large spots that are not SEC or Big 10, presumably. Now, theoretically, you could get another Big 10 team in there. Maybe it's Penn State. Maybe it's Michigan.

But it would seem to me that a second ACC team or even a second Big 12 team would have a pretty strong argument, maybe even over a fifth SEC team, maybe over LSU. It's just going to be the injustice argument at some point becomes powerful, right? And so those second teams that we're now talking about in the two wild card spots that you've left me are Florida State.

I know this is going to sound crazy, Barrett, but I think SMU is going to have something to say in the ACCC. I think SMU is really good, too. I'm glad you said that. Yeah, I think they're going to have something to say in that two, three range of the ACC. I don't know, the Big 12, I don't know if Utah's good enough to separate themselves like it may just beat itself up like you're saying the big 10 will

where you don't have a a second or third team um put themselves into a debate because of their record but my suspicion is you're going to have some debate and at the end of the season and that debate sounds like this ls u versus florida state versus smu versus let's call it utah and those that debate all come down to two or three spots for the 12th year you're going to throw Notre Dame in there I haven't you mentioned Notre Dame I forgot you actually threw them in so it might be down to one spot according to your calculation you included Notre Dame as well and I'm going to be real with you I don't know that much about Notre Dame they're not a team with Notre Dame's a weird program for me I'm not trying to insult anybody it's a weird program for me because they lack of the lack of a conference affiliation and in so many other things and they also exist in this weird range where they're not in the recruit I love recruiting Barrett I keep up with it, right? Sure. I mean, everybody's a microcosm.

I start with Texas, and so I know who's going to UT, and as an offshoe to that, I know who's going to A&M and OU, and then I know who's in the SMU, Texas Tech range, and then I know the guys that Oregon and Ohio State are coming in and getting, so I, in Alabama, so I figure out their recruiting classes. Notre Dame's not that big of a player in all these five and four stars in the state of Texas, and they're not forcing me to watch them because of the big conference affiliations that I care about. And so I'm not trying to thin. Notre Dame flies under my radar for being such a big well-known program. You know what? You're not alone. I mean, I do this for a living and it happens

for me too because we're sitting here like right now going through conferences, right? And I go through every single year and go win-loss, win-loss all the way down the helmet schedule. So I know exactly what I think the picture will look like. I don't do that with Notre Dame. Just because it just instinctively, it's kind of, you get bogged down in conference races this time of year. So you're not the only one that does that, which is crazy, too, because it's Notre Dame. Like, they're the most cherished property in, I would say, sports. I mean, if you can get Notre Dame on TV, but don't you think, that's gone down. But I think it's gone down.

And I think it's a mistake. You don't. I think it's a mistake they didn't join a conference at this point. There's just so much money involved. it's a worldwide, it's a global property. That's the thing, is it's a global property. And I, you know, I used to work at CBS, right? And we have the SEC on CBS game.

We had the SEC on CBS games there. And there's a double header that they got every single year, a midday and a night game. And the night game was always LSU, Alabama. Like every single year, except in 2019, when Notre Dame played at Georgia, which means CBS had the rights to that game. And it was not even a debate.

Like, you don't even debate it. If you can get Notre Dame on TV, on your network, you get them. And, but it is odd because it is such a high profile property that we kind of forget about them this year, you know, when we're doing preseason stuff. But they're going to be good, man. They're going to be good. They've got some dudes up front. And Riley Leonard, their quarterback from Duke, if he's healthy, he's a flat out baller.

But, you know, we'll see if he's healthy. He's got, had some issues. But, man, I think Notre Dame's going to be good. Here's the thing about the playoff that I told you. And I have five SEC teams. The one that's sort of on the bubble, or that is on the outside looking in, is Utah. Because I have Utah at 10 and 2.

I've got all those SEC teams, Alabama, Ole Miss and LSU, at 10 and 2 as well. So I think if that scenario plays itself out, it will be fascinating to see if the committee just kind of gets tired of the SEC and just feels like it has to put somebody else in from another conference. or if that SEC, SEC, SEC chant resonates in Grapevine, Texas when those guys are meeting. We're going to step aside here for a moment. Stay tuned. This is Jimmy Phala, inviting you to join me for Fox Across America, where we'll discuss every single one of the Democrats' dumb ideas.

Just kidding. It's only a three-hour show. Listen live at noon Eastern or get the podcast at Fox Across America.com. All right, I want to ask you about this, and this is something that, Now, I told you that I have a son who is in high school, so that puts me into a bubble of conversation that might find this more interesting, but I think everybody will to some extent. The NCAA has just changed their scholarship limits on colleges. Now, I don't know how big of an expert you are on this, but I did tell my guys, hey, tell Barrett I want to learn something about this. So I don't know if you're able to fill me in here. But in the past, and I was a collegiate athlete,

I was an absolute scrub on a Division I water polo program, but one of the top ones in the country. The point of this is that I have firsthand experience this. We had at Pepperdine Water Polo four and a half scholarships. All right, that's not enough to cover a starting lineup, much less a roster. And that's the way it is for a lot of men's sports. You name the men's sport, the women's side of it has more scholarships. I'm shooting from the hip here, but let's just say men's volleyball has five or six scholarships.

Women's volleyball has 10 or 11, right? Some programs had to be dropped. This happened in the 1990s. It came in with Title IX, which required that men's and women's scholarship availability be similar. And because football ate up so many scholarships, it wasn't. was 85, like UCLA, which was a powerhouse in swimming, dropped their men's swimming program, had to, had to even out the scholarships. And all of a sudden, out of the blue, women's water polo programs got started.

Well, this just all changed in the past two weeks. The NCAA has said, now you can offer scholarship to everyone on your roster, every sport. And football scholarship limit went from 85, I believe, to 105, if I have it, correct? Correct. And for example, men's soccer, I know because my sons play soccer, went from 9.9 to 28. Now, there's a harder cap on the roster, as I understand it. You can't carry 35 dudes now, but you can carry 28, and they can all be on scholarship. Last point before I turn it over to you to help me understand this, Barrett, is just because all these sports now can offer more scholarships, doesn't mean they will. The universities have to make decisions about what they can afford and what they're going to give. to various programs, but this is a big, big change.

We're talking about all the changes in college football with the alignment in the playoffs. College sports in general is about to change. And I don't know how, Barrett. Yeah, there's two different schools of thought here. It's that you're going to have like every, all the power programs are going to consolidate the talent. Or you're going to see more movement in the transfer portal because these schools can offer scholarships. for in football you know you sort of have that now anyway same with men's basketball but i think you have to wrap in the title nine part of this as well because that still exists now it's

changed in ways that have nothing to do with athletics which i know you've talked about on on your show fox and friends in the morning uh but it's i think you're going to see a lot of football programs get near that number but not necessarily go beyond it or even to it because the schools are going to want to have healthy programs up and down. Really, football and men's basketball are the revenue sports, right? But if you're a student, you want, and go to a big school, you want to be around a community, right? And having healthy programs in a lot of different areas makes the college experience better for the people who want to go there. And so from a bottom line perspective, the health of the school might be better off

if you give some of the more of those scholarships to non-revenue kids. So, you know, there's that school of thought as well. So to me, I think there are a lot of football coaches who are upset about this. You know, it's crazy you think that, oh, they're getting 105 scholarships. They're going to be thrilled. No, they want walk-ons. They like walk-ons. Walk-ons are a big part of a right. What happens to walk-ons? What happens to walk-ons? Is that a thing in the past? exist, but not really. I mean, they're not going to be able to do anything. Like, if you have 105 scholarship football players,

a lot of those guys are going to be scout teamers. And schools aren't going to want to pay scout teamers. They're going to want to have walk-ons, right? Like, they want to not pay for those guys. And, you know, a lot of people, I know a bunch of people when I was at Auburn, who were scout teamers on the football team that were walk-ons that loved every second of them.

So, you know, it's, there's two different schools that thought. I don't think the power is going to be consolidated with the big money teams anyway, because, yeah, you can, it's nice to get paid or have your school cover your education, but there are a lot of football players who want to go get playing time and can get paid somewhere else, not necessarily as handsomely, but still do it and make it make the way to the NFL. So I think it's going to be non-revenue sports that benefit more than maybe others think. And the question is, you're exactly right, because, by the way,

we're moving away from the scholarship being the currency of college football. is the currency of college football. But, you know, we're all watching the Olympics right now, to some extent. I don't know if you are, but I dig the Olympics. And to the extent that the United States, and we are, we're going to win the medal count, we're going to win the total golds. To the extent the United States dominates the Olympics, it's because of college sports, to be honest.

They are Olympic factories. The reason, and we did have a very down year in swimming, for example, like we still won the most golds and won the most medals. But Michael Phelps famously just said, that's not good because the men won one individual gold this year. But the reason that we're so dominant historically is because of the American collegiate swimming culture and environment. And all of those dudes, like the star of swimming this year was from France, right? Leo, Leon Moshan, and he's a stud. And he's going to the University of Texas to swim because that's what you do when you're good.

You come to America. You go to an American college. you get a free education and you get the best coaching in the world at almost all these sports, not every sport, but almost all these sports, you get it through the American collegiate environment. And as a side note, Barrett, one of the things that bothers me, like, soccer is an exception to this. College is not a big factory for pro soccer. Yeah.

But I still think, and I don't care if this makes me sound nativist or whatever, it makes me sound like everybody else in the world. If you look, Clemson just won the national title in soccer, okay? Clemson, best one, right? I look at their roster and I was just curious. I would say 90% of the roster, maybe 80% of the roster, is from someplace other than America. They're from Africa or Europe or Latin America.

And they're getting scholarships. And so you're saying to me, the American university's job is to educate and train the world's talent, not American talent and send them back home to play for their whatever, World Cup teams.

It doesn't make sense to me that our resources are not dedicated to the advancement of Americans. This happened in my sport, water polo, because the best in the world is Eastern Europe.

So I'd look up and the USC Trojans are all from Croatia, you know? And so I don't know the answer because everybody wants to win, Barrett. I get why the coaches do it.

They want to win and they go where the best players are. But this whole like scholarship tips for non-revenue sports, will they go to Americans, and the importance it plays in sort of America being good at sports, you could argue Americans don't care about, like swimming or track and field, but still, we're good. It's all tied up, and I just, I don't know how it's all going to shake out. Yeah, you're right, but then, you know, I would say that, and this is going to

get into a gray area that has something to do with news, but you want your best and brightest from wherever they come from, right? So if you can have really good athletes in water polo come from around the world, get an American education and stay here and be valuable to our country, that's a good thing. But then they go back and play for Croatia.

They go back and play for Croatia. They don't become, they don't play for America. No, I'm talking about after the playing days ago. I'm talking about after the playing days ago. Yeah, yeah, I get that. And to be real, I'm not trying to be, there's not, I don't have a black and white,

solution to this and I think that the answer is probably a ratio but there is no ratio right now like I do think that the answer would be like a certain percentage of your scholarships should be dedicated to American athletes and American students it's like I don't know yeah that's what I think and I don't know what the percentage is but I don't like a roster completely I don't like an American college's roster not being for America I would love that too and like I say about college athletics in every aspect. It's beautifully dysfunctional. And another thing is that billable hours are always undefeated. So if you created a rule that a certain amount of scholarship had to go to Americans, I would imagine lawyers would have fun with that one. All right. In this conversation

where we started, let's go back to our breakdown of the Big Ten versus the SEC. And this one's going to be more generic, Barrett. I want to ask you this. The depth of the two conferences, I'm going to take it that you think the Big Ten is less top-heavy, more deep, based upon the idea you think it's going to be harder for the Penn States and Michigan's to get out unscathed. But as I looked at this, and as I continue to go down, you know, seven matchup, Tennessee versus Wisconsin, eight matchup, Oklahoma versus Nebraska. You keep going down, 12 matchup, Florida versus Minnesota, 14 matchup, Arkansas versus Illinois. The athletic didn't pick it this way, but I look at that.

that, I'm like, I think I take the SEC program in almost all of these lower-seeded matchups. I feel like the bottom of the SEC, I don't know about Mississippi State versus Michigan State, but the SEC top the bottom, to me, is more intimidating than the Big 10, 1 through 16. Yes, 100%. And it's not always like that. I mean, it's just not.

But, you know, I think this year, you're talking about a team like Auburn that I think can be really, really good that has dynamic wide receivers. Texas A&M, they've got a pro quarterback in Conra Wegman. They're six, seven, I don't know what they're on the athletic, but you know, you start going down and we have to do power rankings because it's list season or whatever. And I mean, I'm getting now to 10, 11 the SEC. I'm like, damn, these are pretty good teams. Like, I can make a case that they're going to be a good team. And so, yeah, this goes back to recruiting what we talked about earlier. The best players are in the southeast, like period in the story. The best players are in the Southeast. And when you have not just SEC programs,

but now SEC programs with NIL resources, all these kids are staying in this region. They just are. Yeah. I guess I'm already an SEC Homer. I can start chanting SEC. I vowed I would never do that. But now at the horns are SEC, I guess maybe I'll chant. What about horns down though? I need your opinion on horns down. do not care. I welcome you to do it. I think it's dumb beyond dumb when I watch Arkansas versus Oklahoma and they're doing horns down. Now that is not cool. I think it's dumb beyond dumb when Texas isn't even involved in a game and I see horns down. But if you're, if the horns are playing whoever and you want to walk out and do horns down, do it. And by God, I don't

think anybody, I don't think any Texas fan cares. I don't think the administration cares. I don't know why the big 12 cared and i hope they don't care in the SEC no the SEC doesn't care like i can i can guarantee you the SEC doesn't care they look they look at it the same way as the gator chomp and the cowbells at Mississippi state and yeah they don't the SEC doesn't care at all and look people complaining about doing horns down i mean come on if you're just doing it as all in good fun last time i checked will uh sports are actually supposed to be fun right like isn't that why we do this yeah that's right that's right Right. And it makes us look so soft like we're offended by Horns Down.

I did it, and I had to bring it up on camera before in case there's ever a screenshot of me doing Horns Down. All right, Outkicks, Barrett, Sally. Catch him out at college football smothered and covered and check him out over at Outkick. Always good to talk to you, man. I can't wait for college football. Thank you, Barrett, Sally. It's going to be fun. Going to track down your son in Ireland as well.

Awesome. Thank you, man. Take care. There you go. I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Barrett Sally again. Check him out. You can check him on X at Barrett Sally, S.A. L-L-E.

That's going to do it for me today here on the Will Cain Show. Subscribe. Apple, Spotify, YouTube, and I will see you again next time. Listen to ad-free with a Fox News podcast plus subscription on Apple Podcast, and Amazon Prime members, you can listen to this show, ad-free, on the Amazon music app.