Will Cain Country - Which Way Will Gen Z Lead A Revolution? With The TRIGGERnometry Podcast

Episode Date: April 1, 2024

Story #1: Will’s search for a church on Easter Sunday, and how that parallels our national search of faith. Story #2: Which way will Gen Z lead a revolution? Will it be towards woke-ism and destruction or the creation of a positive vision? A conversation with Co-hosts of the TRIGGERnometry Podcast, Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin. Story #3: The grossest thing Will has done in years, search for ‘The Perfect Match.’   Tell Will what you thought about this podcast by emailing [e-mail] Subscribe to The Will Cain Show on YouTube here: Watch The Will Cain Show! Follow Will on Twitter: @WillCain Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What we may be witnessing is the end of the American Empire. And with that, Canada has never been more vulnerable. Gloves off is a podcast about the threat to Canada's sovereignty and what we can do about it. I'm Stephen Marsh. We break down the hard questions with outspoken experts and thinkers as well as everyday Canadians. The gloves come off, Canada Day, Tuesday, July 1st, wherever you get your podcasts. One, the search for a church on Easter. Two, which way will Gen Z lead the revolution?

Will it be towards wokeism and destruction or create a positive vision of the future in the hands of Gen Z? And three, the grossest thing that I have done in years. Search for the perfect match. It is the Will Kane show streaming live at Fox News.com on the Fox News YouTube channel, the Fox News Facebook page, and always on demand in audio format, wherever you get your audio entertainment. Just hit subscribe at Spotify or Apple or at Fox News. podcast and you of course watch the will cane show in entirety or with exclusive interviews

anytime you like on youtube by hitting subscribe to the video description beneath this live stream just expand the text description you'll see a button to subscribe to the will cane show where you can get past interviews with jesse waters on the rules from in dave portnoy stephen a smith tony robins jordan peterson or you can watch shorts of the will cane show we have a big episode coming up today with the host of trigonometry, one of the most popular podcast across audio format and on YouTube to talk about the future of Gen Z. But could Joe Biden have really named Easter as Transvisibility Day? That's the kind of question we pondered over the weekend. For me, on a weekend of highs

and lows, a yen and a yang, complete trash as I binge-watched perfect match on Netflix. But I also sat in a sanctuary for one of the first times in years and pondered the meaning of life and pondered God. In fact, I want to take a personal walk with you as we talk about sitting in one of the most beautiful sanctuaries I've ever seen, three-sided floor-to-ceiling stained glass in Dallas, Texas as we search for a church. Story number one. I have been fairly open with you over our relationship about my gravitational pull, my evolution, in my relationship with God. I grew up in the church. I grew up in Sunday school. I grew up in the back pew as my mom taught the class of mentally and physically handicapped Samaritans at the United Methodist Church in Sherman, Texas. I grew up a

Methodist. It was youth group. It was several times a week. That was a part of my community. Underhand, my wife grew up an Episcopal. More I think she would admit a Christmas and Easter Christian. But I think somewhere along in my 20s, I probably gravitated too much towards intellectualism. I lost humility. I began to think everything in the world could be answered through reason and logic. I'd like to think with age has come wisdom, and with wisdom has come humility, has come the ability to look beyond simply what I can rationalize. I also work on the weekends. My host, Fox and Friends, on Saturday and Sunday mornings. and I live in Texas and I travel to New York.

So as much as spiritually through reading and prayer, my relationship has been rekindled with God. My time spent in a church has not been something to be proud of, not something I have devoted, invested time in a church. I was off this weekend, and it was Easter. And I've told you before that one of the things I'm most proud of is my sons both initiating their own baptism and wanting to, personalize their relationship with God. But we've never really found ourselves in a community. We haven't found our church. So this weekend, we began the process of kind of trying on different churches.

You know, C.S. Lewis says you're not supposed to be a critic in church. You're not supposed to go and analyze the pastor and analyze the surroundings. You're not supposed to sit there and be a critic. But I also think that you need to find something that fits your vision, your style, your path to God. And it is, it's fascinating that this comes for me, at least for me, in a greater context of the decline in religiosity, the decline in society's relationship with God. On Friday, on Fox and Friends, we had Cardinal Timothy Dolan on the broadcast, and I said to him, you know, every study, Gallup, Pew shows that Americans have declined in answering

how important religion is to their life from 30 years ago, 61% of Americans describing religion is very important to today, 46% of Americans, saying it's very important to their lives. I mean, if you go back to the 1950s and 60s, you'd see stats that say over 70% of Americans would say religion is very important. And I asked the Cardinal, I said, what's troubling about that is if you take a broader temperature of America, what you'll see, in capitalistic terms, is a market demand. mean, people are depressed. People are lacking meaning. They're searching for purpose. But decreasingly, they're looking for the answer in God. Now, the Cardinal's answer to me was he

thinks that we've seen the rise in the worship of self. We've seen the rise in narcissism. We do it through our phones. We do it into the mirror. You could even argue, like, many of the things that I pay attention to on a pretty regular basis, like self-improvement, physically diet, is at least in no small part of form of narcissism. Whatever we stare at, whatever we look at becomes what we prioritize and what we prioritize becomes what we worship. If we're always staring into the mirror, then we develop a sense of worship of self. And so we decreasingly turn to God. It's clear. That's what's happening in America. And I think that's also part of Christianity becoming somewhat of a target. Now look, I think what's happening is anything that's in the majority, anything that's

seen as being in power, has become a target. We've become a society obsessed to some extent with victimization, and I think in part that's driven by empathy. Look, white Christian target. And it was hard not to think about that this weekend when on Easter, Joe Biden, the White House, takes a moment to celebrate Transvisibility Day on Sunday on the exact same day as Easter. I was sitting around with some friends. I tried not to scroll this weekend. I did for 10 minutes and it popped up.

And there it is. And I'm immediately outraged, as is every one of my friends, immediately. Because I think it fits into a broader context. It fits into this idea that everything that's in the majority, including Christianity, somehow has to be the target of diminishment or even villainization. But, you know, I didn't. want to be outraged. I don't like to sound off immediately. Even today, the front page of

Fox News.com is talking about this story. And there's an element of it that you should be outraged. You know, I saw there was a Catholic leader that said Joe Biden is a cafeteria Catholic, picking and choosing what he likes. But what required only a bit of investment, you soon learn that March 31st, for whatever it's worth, has been for the last several years, Trans Day of Visibility. this year it just happened to fall on Easter and Joe Biden did whether or not he should have or not or whether it's necessary or not recognized trans day of visibility

even though it fell on the same day as Easter and I think we have to do two things at the same time we have to go whoa you know like this does feel part of the broader context of an attack but we also can't fall into the trap of just constant outrage because constant outrage does nothing but kind of feed into that worship of self, our own feelings. We're looking in the mirror.

We're mad at all times. We're not creating any kind of positive vision of the future. And that's what in just a few moments, I'd love to discuss with the host of trigonometry. But that takes me back to my search. Again, I grew up Methodist and my wife grew up Episcopal. And look, I appreciate Episcopalians are a lot of like Catholics. And I've come to appreciate Catholicism, travel Europe, go into the cathedrals, and it's hard not to.

My sons went to Catholic preschool, and I love the ritualism and the tradition, but there's something in that that is lost in translation for me in terms of me personally finding meaning. On the other hand, I don't want to go into a church and just have it be basically like a therapy session, which has also become religiosity, as is wokeism, faith-based. I don't think therapy is our answer to religion. I don't want church to become therapy either. The best I've ever been to is Redeemer, Tim Keller's Church in New York, which for me, I like an academic approach. I want to understand religion, history, the Bible, God. And so I'm

searching for that, you know, like what is the right yin and the yang? What is the right, maybe Methodist Church? What is the right Episcopal Church that gives honor and isn't just, you know, bands and tambourines and nothing against that if that's what does it for you, but also isn't just overly encumbered by history and tradition, although that's important. And so that's where we found ourselves this weekend. And we'll continue to search. I'm actually excited about the process finding a community which is incredibly important but also a message that I can mull over when I go home and be a part of something greater obviously not just in my community but deeper into the meaning of why we are on this earth and who are we here to honor anyway I thought I'd share with you that before I spend some time later in this show telling you the grossest thing that I've ever done which is binge watch perfect match. but coming up in just moments let's discover let's explore that positive vision

that will be led by the way by the youngest among us that will be led by generation Z that's coming up with the host of trigonometry next on the will cane show action wears shutting down so it's your shot to score Canadian made fire resistant workware

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Coffee and Delivery. A positive vision of the future. Will it be driven by Generation Z or we be destroyed by identity politics? One more thing on the search for a church on Easter. We all have to be careful about what we consume these days. I find the social media is so tailored to some extent that it becomes the mirror you think, wow, is this what X? Is this what Instagram thinks of me?

The algorithm says this is something I would be interested in. But I was fed over the weekend a thread that I did find fascinating about the increasing femininity of Christianity. And it is that, you know, so much of the message is driven by empathy. And empathy is a more easily accessible emotion for women, but so much of the message is driven by kindness and empathy that what has happened is Christianity's become increasingly feminine. And in that, it has villainized the masculine. And I think it's turned off a lot of men. And I'm not suggesting that we have to bang our shields and lead a crusade. but there is a role for masculinity

in every aspect of life every aspect of society you know in a way the yin and yang of empathy is judgment and men more easily access judgment and today in society that's become evil judgment but I think the opposite judgment is love

it's love to tell someone you're on the wrong path it's love to say that something is wrong and look that's why the basic fundamental building block of society is the family a man and a woman because we offer different things to children, to a unit. It's same thing in society, and I would argue the same thing in religion, that we need

masculinity in our Christianity. It is the Will Kane show streaming live at foxnews.com on the Fox News YouTube channel, the Fox News Facebook page. Hit subscribe, YouTube, Apple, Spotify. There's a good chance that you already are subscribed to one of the most popular podcast in video or audio form on the internet. It is trigonometry, and that leads us to story number two. Constantine Kissin is the co-host of Trigonometry Podcast.

He's also the author of An Immigrants Love Letter to the West. He's a satirist. He's on X at Constantine Kissin. And his co-host is Francis Foster. He's the co-host at Trigonometry. He's a stand-up comedian, and he's on X at Francis J. Foster. What's up, guys? I'm really happy to have you on the Will Kane Show.

That's great to be all, man. Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. So I know that you guys were on hold, and I appreciate your patience as I was leading. in very, very eloquently, but also verbosely into this discussion here today. And I want to talk to you about Gen Z. I want to talk to you about something you had on your podcast, Trigonometry recently, talking about, does it lead us towards revolution and what kind of revolution when it comes to Gen Z? But I did just kind of want to open this up. You heard what I had to say today

about masculinity, about Christianity, about the search for a church, and I'm just curious if you had any reaction. Well, the first thing that really stood out for me, and I'm glad we were on whole because we got a chance to see some of the things you were talking about, which I think are really profound and are the right questions that people are going to be asking going into the future. I mean, the most obvious thing to pick up in terms of what you were saying is the kind of the state of the world now is we used to have thicker skins than we do now on all sides of the spectrum. And so what happens now is like our skin has melted off. And the moment anyone brushes past us, we immediately assume it was some hostile act because we kind of experience it as

much more painful. So this thing that happened with the Biden White House press release, it just points to something, which is, you know, and I've said this for a long time, the danger is the danger of wokeness and all of this stuff is not only wokeness itself, but also the reaction that's going to cause. And I think we're starting to see that now because we react excessively to things as well quite regularly now because we've been staring into that business for so long. And it's worth bearing in mind as well that we talk about James E and We blame them and we point the finger at them. But actually, who is to blame for the fact that Gen Z have turned out the way they are?

Is it actually Gen Z? Or is it actually us who have inculcated those values in them, who have brought up this generation, who see the world in this way? And the reality is, it's far easier to point the finger at Gen Z than actually to look at our generation and previous generations and think to ourselves, actually, we failed them. Because in many ways, we have. you know constantine that leads into this um discussion that you guys have been having which

you talked about the reaction to the event the outrage and whether or not it can veer too far in another direction and it does veer as you point out in a predictable uh direction and it's it's inherently unappealing at least to me because i don't like feeling that way all the time i don't like feeling negative um and i've just noticed this this recurring theme for you and for both of you guys But this is to you, Constance, this recurring theme of we have to find leaders. And I don't even know if we can go about finding leaders if we can't first find it in ourselves, of how do we, like, build a constructive, positive vision of the future? Isn't that so interesting that you said we have to find it inside ourselves?

And I think that's universally true across the Western world, where when people do come through who are willing to be blunt and honest, which is what we need, we need people to be direct and honest about the tremendous problems we face in our societies, They are immediately misrepresented, attacked, destroyed, and what that means is we then end up with only massive narcissists going into politics because those are the only people who can stand the experience. I have quite a lot of friends that I know who are kind of in our game in the media world and people say to them, you know, would you go into politics? And they say, why? I'm going to get paid less in order to be shouted out by half the country because I'm going to try and say something that I believe. So unless we stop doing that, the leaders we have now are the bestest ever going to get. But so Francis, what I mean, and also what I mean is, so I think by our very nature, easily we access outrage.

Easily we access negativity. It's just so easy. And by the way, for guys that do what we do, that becomes a really cheap currency to gaining an audience. But I think it's also somewhat hollow in that it wears off. I mean, not only do I create content, I consume a lot of content. So when I'm sitting there thinking, like, what do I want to watch? What do I want to listen to? I don't want to feel negative.

And not just, that's just on the entertainment front, but also like on the, what is my purpose in this world front, there's just the reaction to wokeism, okay, which is an ideology of destruction. It's inherently what it's about is destroying the past. Now, I'll give them in an attempt to try to understand that maybe they have a utopic aspiration of the future. But the answer to that has to be that there is an alternative positive vision that's not hollow and that over time people go to, because look, I actually think people we easily destroy. That's an easy thing to do. It's hard to create, but we're also attracted

to creation. Yeah. And one thing as well that we, I feel that we don't talk about when we talk about destruction is the high people get from destruction. Not only is it easy, but it's also you feel justified into your destruction. You get a visceral thrill from destroying something. How easy is it to tear down a statue, throw it in a river, and all of a sudden you feel like a revolutionary. It's actually far more difficult than going to art college, learning how to become a sculptor, then dedicating your life to becoming a sculptor, and then at one point in your career being able to create a life size and life-like statue. That can take a lifetime of learning, whilst tearing a statue down, throwing it in a river, feeling like a hero, can take a matter

of hours. So the reality is, I think, more and more, is that we've been encouraged to think in the short term, Whether it's as content providers, creating content, which can create outrage and then go viral. But actually, when you look at the substance, there's not much there, or on the other side of it, tearing that statue down and throwing it in the river. You know, sometimes I'm real self-conscious about, I mean, I love this kind of conversation. I don't want to veer away from it. And I'm also like, well, does the audience think this is two in the clouds, 30,000 feet? It's too esoteric. abstract all the times, but, like, I watched a speech from you, Constantine, where you're talking

about it specifically applicable to what's happening. Like, you said, um, the housing crisis. You talk about the housing crisis among young people, right? And you said, you can't expect young people to, to not want to turn over the game board, um, and be a revolutionary. If, if they can't access the basic fundamentals of, of building a life, which you talk about is like buying a house, building a family inside of a house. Like it's not just 30,000 feet we're talking about here. It's like you better give young people a positive answer or they're just going to gravitate to destruction

because what exists doesn't offer them a solution. Right. And think about, you know, the great promise I think of our societies is that our children will do better than us. That is just not factually correct for the next generation that's coming. It's not going to be the case. And the reason is if you think about what the American Dream was in the 1960s, it was a house with a white picket fence, two or three kids, or with one person

in the family having to work. Typically, the man goes into a fairly low-level job working in a factory, driving a truck, whatever it is, and he can provide for his family. I was having a conversation with one of our guys here at the studio today who's basically planning to do that. You know, he wants to get married, have children, have a place of his own, blah, blah, blah, And when we sat down and I was trying to help him map out his thoughts, we kind of realized that he's probably going to need to be a millionaire in actually in order to be able to have that happen in the way that's comfortable living in London, where a two-bedroom house is going to cost you a million pounds in most of the capital.

So if that's the reality of facing, most people aren't going to be millionaires. That means they're not going to have the things that make people want to stay where they are. Like once you've got a house and you've got a family and you've got kids and blah, blah, blah, you kind of want to keep things moderately good because you're worried about things going south. But if you've got nothing to lose, there's a whole range of things that are going to look very, very attractive to you

that we would rather, you know what I mean? And also as well, I mean, it's a great point by Constantine. Also as well, you factor in that these young people have seen governments elected into power and successively not deliver on their promises. This conservative government that we have has had 14 years in power and has done little to nothing

to solve the housing crisis, even though they said they would, even though there were various promises made. And as a result of that, these young people are looking at democracy and going, why should I vote? Why should I participate in a democratic system

which when you look at it doesn't work and it certainly doesn't work for me? so why should we have democracy? And once you get to that point, then we start entering a very worrying place. So let's go there for just a moment. That's the topic you recently had on trigonometry. Like which way do young people go? What happens with Jin Z?

Francis, I think you were talking about like, it seems like what's guaranteed is some form of revolution. The question is, is it that revolution of destruction that we're talking about, further leaning into wokeism into identity politics and disavowing ourselves of the past or is it one where there can be a positive vision where they can be builders of something in the future

it's like one of two things is going to happen with Gen Z and you're talking about the split is there about I think it's on a male female you know demographic line of which way those two groups are leaning yeah I mean

the worrying thing is is that you go well, if the sexes are so split and they don't can't agree on something as fundamental as about how to run a society, how to move forward, we've already got declining birth rates. If we're going to look at Gen Z and they're not going to be able to buy property and they can't even agree with somebody in the opposite sex and they're diametrically opposed to them in every way, how are they going to have a relationship, number one, they're not going to buy property, they're not going to have babies, the birth rate's going to plummet even further. What's going to actually happen to our society? We can't keep importing people and having

mass migration because what you're going to then see is obliteration of a culture. It's incredibly worrying. And the way to sum it up, well, I think, is also to look at the, you know, when we talk about that gender split, yes, the woke path is destructive, but what is on the other side of that? And on the other side of that, I think the best way to sum it up easily, like the male role model for guys my age, that's an elderly millennial, is Jordan Peterson in this kind of space. The role model for Gen Z is Andrew Tate. Now, that's a whole shift in energy and what you're bringing to the table and whether you are constructive or destructive and all that. So, you know, I think if you just look at that one little data point alone, it kind of tells you where the energy is moving, and we should be really concerned about that, which is why Francis and I've been advocating for a long time now, like, guys, we need to stop this and start thinking about how to bring people together. That isn't what's happening right now, and I'm afraid. Because what you don't want in society is large groups of disenfranchised young men.

Yeah. When you have large groups of disenfranchised young men, that's. That's when things can get very nasty, very quickly. And that's what keeps me coming back to this, what sounds like societal self-help conversation about a positive vision. Because I also think someone could come away from this, like, are you, like, are you like, are you lukewarm? God spat you out.

Well, are you middle grounding this here? Like, no, I'm actually not, because I want to reject the entire spectrum, right? I want to reject this idea that I have to pick the middle ground between two insanities. I just want somebody interesting and creative and society building to emerge who offers answers. And by the way, we don't need a messiah. We don't need like, but we do need inspiration, I think. We do need an inspiring leader who can give some direction. I think you're totally right, Francis.

You can, I mean, that's just objectively true. Look at societies with young men that are aimless. It's a horrific recipe for what happens to those societies. And by the way, I want to bring both of your personal experience in for a second. Constantine, I know you've talked about your. family. And I don't want to be like hyperbolic here, but we're talking about at least a rapidly approaching inflection point in Western societies. And I know that your family's history is that you've seen how fragile it all can be. You know, like I think we all, we take for granted the present tense

and that the future is only like a bigger, better version of the present. When for me, COVID was pretty revelatory. Like, wow, this is all pretty fragile. I'm talking about the way we look at one another it's fragile and i know your family's experienced the fragility of civilization yeah so i i was born in the soviet union and my family seen all sorts of things so you know depending how far back you go the soviet union being created which was a pretty dramatic event to put it very mildly right and then the soviet union collapsing which was uh perhaps a slightly less dramatic but nonetheless and very very rapid change and you know massively impactful on the entire history of the 20th century But you see that happening in front of your eyes.

And I agree with you about COVID, man. Like I look at that period and I kind of go, I think that's the period in which history started to happen again. Because you know, like the 1990s, the noughties, as we call them here, like the 2000s, you look at that period and it kind of felt pretty stable. Right now it feels like history is being made. You know what I mean? And I think COVID was a very good example of where any illusions that you had about

how people might respond in an emergency and that, you know, we're not as divided as we think we are. No, no, no, we're pretty, pretty divided and people will demand things, people into your body without your consent, and people will demand that you wear things that don't produce any actual tangible impact in the rural world because it makes them feel better and they need a scapegoat. So that's what they're going to do. So, yeah, I think we are about to see some events that will go down in the history books, I'm afraid, yeah. What do you think they will be?

I have no idea. I genuinely don't. It just seems to me like geopolitically, what's happening is the United States to step back. And so hostile powers like Russia and China are clearly looking at this is an opportunity. And then you've got combined that with a kind of, you talked about it in your open monologue. You know, we're not even religious people, really, but it's a loss of spirit. You don't have to call it God or religion. It's a loss of spirit in the West.

There's a loss of belief. There's a lot of loss of confidence. And even like you've asked us, what is the positive vision? And I can see that we're giving you negative answers because it's just hard to see at the moment what that positive vision is. And it's hard.

Me to ask you a positive vision requires, and I'm not insulting you guys, it's all of us have to answer this question. It's hard to create. It's hard to create a positive vision. It's easy to criticize or destroy. And by the way, on the COVID point, Constantine, it's not just leadership. We talk a lot about what it exposed about governments and leadership, but it was also about your neighbor.

Like, all of a sudden, oh, my neighbor is judging me in what I'm choosing to put over my face. And all of a sudden, you just saw the role that fear can play in changing your neighbor. And that'll shock you. I mean, that'll rock your belief in civilization. Yeah. Yeah. And that is a very, very profound point because all of a sudden, the person next you, who you live next to you,

who you may have enjoyed their company, you had a cordial relationship with, all of a sudden you were encouraged, particularly in the UK, to look at them and go, oh, actually, how many times have they been for a walk today? Did they actually need to go out?

Are they actually following COVID protocols? And what it did is it turned us all into these miniature little starzies. And some people actually took a, a great delight not only in seeing what other people were doing, but also reporting them to police. It actually helped to tear apart societies. And the fact that the government played an active role in this was nothing less than criminal.

Yeah, I totally agree. And I think that the analogy to the Stasi is not, I don't think that's crazy. I mean, go watch the movie, The Lives of Others. And tell me if there wasn't elements of COVID in that. which is about East Germany and the Stasi and turning in your neighbor. I want to go back to the personal side of this little bit. I want to explore yours for a minute, Francis, because you said something I think is fascinating. And there's this, you know, a friend of the show here is Douglas Murray.

He writes and talks a lot about the West. And you talked about the West, and you talked about importing people. Declining birth rates in the UK, then you've had this mass migration importing people. And you made, I think, an important point that somehow gets turned into something controversial. And I'm just like, the only way this point that you made is controversial is if you believe in the inherent evil of our culture. You said the culture will be lost. Yours in the UK or us in the West at a greater extent, more geographically greater. And I think that's just you have to acknowledge, like the proverbial you, you have to acknowledge that that's the case.

Like you have a culture. And by the way, it's been a very successful culture in progressing humanity. It is, I think, just to keep some themes intertwined in this conversation in my monologue, I do think it's inseparable from Christianity in the West, but it's also bigger than Christianity, and we are importing people who just simply aren't a part of that culture, but that's not all, aren't interested in adopting the culture, which I think you guys see even more than we do. You see that in the UK. No interest in assimilation, no interest in reverence for the predominant culture. well i think one of the challenges that we face in this country is the is the levels of immigration that we have coming in and you go you simply cannot absorb and have a cohesive society with this amount of people coming into the country and you see how culture has been obliterated when you ask people what it means to be british and particularly young people and they'll just stare at you and they'll have no idea what it actually

means to be British, why it's special, why being British is a good thing. And in fact, it's actually worse than that because they feel shame for their culture. They feel shame for their country. And if that's the case, then how can you ask people to be proud to be from a particular place or want to defend it or believe in it? If they don't feel pride, they feel the actual opposite of that, which is shame. I always feel like you guys are the canary in the coal mine. Like, you know, if we have a cold, you have the flu on these cultural issues. But, you know, we all left.

But the truth is, like, Murray says, we've exported wokeism to you. That's an American export to the UK, Constantine. Thank you. I totally agree. I've been making the same point as Thudelists. Yeah, we're all very grateful. I just went to Australia, by the way, and they downloaded it from us. So they're a few years behind.

It's a very interesting dynamic. that happens around the world and by the way it's interesting you mentioned canary in the coal mine somebody said to me why are so many people from our background which is stand-up comedy doing podcasts like this and talking about this stuff and i've been thinking about it a lot and i just remember growing up and watching george carlin and bill hicks talk about the importance of freedom of expression and making jokes and getting arrested because they said the wrong thing and monty python here in the uk being canceled for doing stuff about religion and thinking, yeah, that's my team. I'm on that team. I'm on the team. Don't tell me

what to think. Don't tell me what to say. And don't tell me how to make jokes, right? And then I went, you know, that was when I was in college. And then I went to, you know, into the real world, trying to make a living, make my way as the world is a young man. And then, you know, 10, 15 years later, it's like, I wake up and suddenly like, free speech is a bastion of the far right. And I'm like, whoa, how did that happen? How did that transition happen while I took my hour? the ball for two minutes and suddenly free speech went from this is a liberal position to only bigots want to speak you know that's it that's a fascinating transformation to me this just happened in the tiny amount of time which it is objectively a tiny amount of time and what's really interesting

is i've been watching a lot of george carlin and you're watching george carlin and you know george was a hero of the left he was a poster boy of the left and i was watching a a lot of his most famous routines. And I'm like, I mean, he kind of sounds like a very problematic old white man at this point. Yeah, you couldn't do that routine right now. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

And by the way, guys that almost, I think to a man, I'll just going to name a couple, who would describe themselves on the left, sound pretty on the right now. Even in contemporary, talk about the tight time frame that you referenced constantly. I mean, like, Dave Chappelle over here. I don't think Dave Sheld ever can describe himself as conservative. But Dave Chappelle is not, and he's rejected by the left now. Over there, I don't know Ricky Jervais is, like, I don't know where he is, and I don't know where he's in his evolution, but, you know, I don't think he fits

cleanly anymore into whatever it is, the left. He's far right, like, right now, like all of it, man. That's it. Hey, you know that the loss of free speech, or the truth. the transformation of it becoming a right-wing thing, I think a lot about that. And I wonder, you know, the answer to that, I think I kind of toy with two options. And one is that you can't really attach free speech celebration to any ideology. All it is, is it deep down, everybody wants power. And everybody wants to yell, shut up. And the right would be just as difficult,

just as problematic on this as the left, if they were in the position of dominance and power. And I worry about that. I do. And that I think that this. just human nature by the way it's human nature because again like creation winning an argument is hard yelling shut up is destruction and that's easy you know so so i think that it's it's the little devil on everyone's shoulder but the other is when you talk about what attracted you to stand-up comedy in george carlin like you probably were a little bit of a counterculture person then you probably were like i this is what i said in my monologue like you you probably wanted to rebel against whatever was the majority or the overwhelming culture to some extent.

And it's just that now it's flipped, right? And the overwhelming culture is left and woke and they don't need free speech. And so counterculturism is on the opposite side of where it was when you guys were in college. I'm going to guess. I don't know. No, no, absolutely, because if you look at what people like Carlin and Higgs were rebelling against, it was a religious right who will have a moral certainty. Of course, they have a moral certainty because they're religious. But if you look at the woke or the progressives, whatever you want to call them,

they again have the same thing, which is this moral certainty. So the moment you start pushing back against that, the moment you start mocking them, they get outraging and angry because they're like, because they say, and this is to quote what their words, they're on the right side of history, how dare you criticize, how dare you mock, that is wrong, you are immoral,

and therefore we are quite within our rights to destroy you because that is what you do with somebody who criticizes or goes against or blasphemes a religion. So a couple more things here before we go to here on the Will Kane show. So first of all, I want to thank you guys. I think you did an awesome job with Sam Harris. We played that here on the Will Kane show. I think you really, in a well-done interview,

had him exposed, and Sam Harris is a guy, and I don't know what you guys have to say about him, but at times I thought, Sam Harris, noted atheist, intellectual thinker, hater of Donald Trump, that I would have in the past always said, man, he's so principled, though. Like, it all comes from a place of principle and reason and logic. And in that interview, I just couldn't see how he can look himself in the mirror and go, that made sense, you know? Like, yeah, I believe in free speech, but Donald Trump represented enough of a threat to humanity that I want to, the price of sacrificing free speech is low.

That was great. And I think it really, I think it said more, it said, it said something about more than Sam Harris. Back to what I was talking about Mnigo, everybody wants to yell shut up in the end. And Sam Harris isn't above anyone else when it comes to his inner demons. Well, I have to say, and we always make this point of when we talk about this issue, we like Sam. We had a great conversation. and we don't go out ever to expose people. That's not what we do.

We are trying to have a conversation. I was very interested in hearing what he said. And by the way, look, my disagreement with Sam on this, I think, and our disagreement is that he thinks certain things were much, much, much, much more of a threat than I think. And therefore, the lengths to which I'm prepared to go are different. For him, he saw COVID as an existential threat. He saw Donald Trump as a, you know, I think he called them Sue Generis, which means one of a kind. He's a one of a kind threat to America.

Well, like, you know, this is the point I always make about the progressive left is like they don't mean that when they call people Nazis, they don't mean it because if the Nazis were coming to power, you would actually rise up against it. They don't, right? But what Sam, I think, has in his head is like Donald Trump is that bad that you have to, quote, rise up against it. and therefore, you know, what may be justified in one situation may not be in another. I really disagree with that, but my thing with Sam was I didn't like the way people jumped on him because for me, Sam is someone who has a body of work, and he's been a really influential think and a powerful thinker for a long time. I don't agree with him on a couple of things now, but I, you know, we still, we had Sam on the show after that, and we had a great conversation about something else.

So we try not to, we try not to overreact to people's one-off comments. Well, I don't think it's one-off, by the way, because he's kind of had it on other conversations and other podcasts and continue to stand by this position. And I don't think you should have to apologize. I appreciate that you're friendly with Sam and that you continue to have these interesting conversations. And I didn't mean to suggest you were in some CNN and gotcha type moments. You weren't. And that's why I applaud you guys in the, in the conversation that you had. You shouldn't have to apologize, though, for exposing is the word that I.

I chose to use, right? That's what a good interview does is it peels back layers and finds the way people think, and you did that. And I do think, I don't know Sam, but I've appreciated his work throughout time, but I think that was very, I think that revealed a lot about where his mind is and the extent to which you're faithful to your principles given current circumstances. And that's the whole thing about a principle. It's not a principle if it's only applicable in 90% of the occasions. And so I would love you to do the same thing with Mark Cuban. I don't know if you have a good relationship with Mark. I've tried, but Mark doesn't want to come on. I don't know. Have you guys seen Mark lately where he's like, okay, can we just all agree that

the E and DEI shouldn't mean a quality of outcome? It should mean a quality of opportunities. And I'm like, Mark, it's not a semantic game. We're not playing propaganda here. That's not a bug of DEI. That's the feature of DEI. Well, I think, you know, what we always try and do with our show is have good faith conversations. And we would love to have Mark Cuban on just as much as we would like to have people on from the right, the centre, the left, the progressive left. Because it's only by sitting down,

looking the other person in the eye, having a good faith conversation, can you actually hope to move forward? Because it's only by exposing and testing your ideas, do you actually realise and understand if your ideas are actually good ones? we all think dumb things we all think stupid things we all have ignorance we are all fallible we are all human and what's really important is we actually sit down and converse and share

because it's only by that can we learn and the problem where we have of our society is we're placed in these echo chambers so all of our ideas right and left we don't get them tested in the way that we should we should be which is why we love having conversations with sam and it's Why, Mark, if you're watching, we'd love to have you on, mate. There you go. You don't get a more British invitation than that. We'll even make you a cup of tea. I doubt he's watching, so I'm afraid that pitch might have fallen on deaf ears.

We both live in Dallas, so I'll let him know. After you come on the Wilcane show, which he never will to go on trigonometry. No, but it'll be interesting to talk to him because I think, like, I know other people in his position who saw the light on October 7th. and started to actually investigate the things that they'd been turning a blind eye to because they had to go, whoa, whoa, whoa, how did that happen? Because this thing, like, I went to Harvard, and then there's people at Harvard who have no problem with Jewish students being chased off campus or whatever, right? Like something's going on, and then they go and educate themselves, where with Mark, it sort of feels like just, no, I don't mean this is like an offensive thing to him, but I just don't think he's done the reading. to really understand what he's talking about on these issues to do with DEI.

You co-opted woke language there, Constantine. Do the work. What was that? I didn't say do the work. I said do the reading. Do the work means you have to like pretend to believe stuff you don't believe. What I mean is you have to go and educate yourself about the issue, which I just don't think he's done. And that's why I'd love to talk to him about it.

Because as France said, who knows? I mean, I think I'd rule that out as a possibility, but it's so as possible. that he might have lots of things to say that actually changed my mind. I mean, it might be possible. I haven't heard them yet. That's why it would be a great conversation. That's why we love talking to people. You know, to bring this full circle then,

you know, we talked about the future of society and younger generations. Have you guys noticed this? I feel like, in Francis, you brought up Mindigo, the increasing sort of tailorization of social media. And I'll be honest, I so appreciative of Vex that it's one of our, one free speech outlet, but I do feel like it is through the algorithm, maybe through for you, like it's, it's not two realities we live in anymore. It's not a left and a ride or a woke and a conservative. And it's, it's hundreds, it's thousands. And it kind of like the,

I feel like my experience is it pours you deeper down in the rabbit hole of all these subcultures that maybe this speaks to the future of young men. Maybe it speaks to the future of what happens in a, if we fracture off into revolution, but I don't know, I just feel like increasingly, and it is currency is outraged, by the way, it's not two realities, it's not CNN and Fox, it's hundreds of realities we're all living in. Well, this is the challenge, and as well, language is changing in front of our eyes. So the words racist no longer mean what they used to, and people have commented on that. And obviously, that's very worrying.

But then how can you have a conversation with someone who you disagree with if the language that you use and the words that you use have completely different meanings. You're never going to be able to agree if you're basically talking a different language. And that's very worrying as well when someone goes, well, I think this person is a fascist. Or why do you think they're a fascist and they may say something to you? And you go, well, that has nothing to do with the political ideology of fascism. You're simply saying that you find this person a highly disagreeable and obnoxious. and that might be true

but that doesn't mean they're a fascist and they say no no that is my version that's what I believe fascism to be and you just end up sitting there and you're going have I gone insane and if that's true then how can we talk about anything? Yeah

well I'm going to end by paying you guys as a compliment you told me what your vision of the show is and that you want to have these conversations in goodwill where we can have an exchange of ideas and there's growth and I want to say I would hope to have the same type of vision here on the Will Cancho. It's harder, by the way, because people have a natural aversion to the brand of Fox. But to have people on that disagree and that there is a place to learn.

And win even, you know, not that it has to be like this Hegelian dialect, winner, loser, zero-sum game, but, you know, I used to be on ESPN. And Max Kellerman, who I disagreed with on everything, said, this is what I love about debate. I either win or I learn something. you know so it's pretty good outcomes either way but um i appreciate your your interest and your execution and having conversations with goodwill of all types of people and i think everybody should check out trigonometry i'm really happy to have you guys on the show today thank you both

so much thanks for having us it's been a pleasure and by the way that intention on your part really shines through in the conversation that we've had so it's great that you're doing that yeah and mark i know you're watching mate come on come on the show He lives here in Dallas. I'm just going to walk over afterwards. I'll get past the guards. Don't worry about it. And I'll make a personal pitch for you guys at Trigonometry.

Well, I don't know what your relationship is. Would that put him off potentially? Knowing our relationship? Yeah, would that put him off rather than help him get on the show? It's a good question. We've had some nice exchanges via email. That's how he communicate. So if you want to hit him up, you've got to hit him up through email.

But we've had some nice exchanges. I'm a Dallas Maverick. fan, but who knows what somebody thinks down deep about someone, so I don't know if it'll help or hurt. But best of luck, guys. Thank you so much. Cheers. Thanks, Will. That is, you bet. Constantine Kiss and host of Trigonometry and his co-host, Francis Foster. Again, check them out wherever you get your audio entertainment. They're also big on YouTube. Trigonometry. I was fortunate to get out of that interview without having a dress, one of the grossest things that I've done in recent memory, which is to binge watch on Netflix, perfect match. But you know me,

I'm going to try to redeem myself with an intellectual argument into why there's something to get out of this horrifically trashy dating show. Next, perfect match on the Will Cain Show. Join us aboard CN's new podcast, The Inside Track, your front row seat to the railroads and supply chains powering North America. Hear real stories, expert insights, and bold innovations. Episode one dives into transloading with CN's Benoit La Chants. Learn how it works, why it matters, and how to get involved. Listen now to the inside track. What you let me say?

I like reality shows. I like competition shows. I like experiments in sociology. That doesn't mean I necessarily liked perfect match. It's the Will Kane show streaming live at foxnews.com, the Fox News YouTube channel. The Fox News Facebook page and always on demand at YouTube in video format. Shorts, exclusive interviews, entire episodes, in case you missed an episode of the Will Ken Show, or subscribe an audio format at Apple or on Spotify.

I've owned it. Look, Amanda Love is Blind. I like it, okay? And it's not because I like dating shows. Love is Blind, the Netflix dating show, is an experiment where they take couples who do not get to see each other, and they're in pods, and there's a wall between them, and they can communicate, quote, unquote, date, only through getting to know each other. Shockingly, they propose to each other in about two weeks' time frame,

and then they get to see each other physically. And then they take them out into the wild on a honeymoon. Then they put them into their hometowns. They live together. Then they meet their families. And you see the levels at which some people can be totally in love. And I do take it somewhat sincerely, even though it's a reality show. And then as you introduce the other elements that we all have immediately in relationships,

how it either doesn't matter or tears down the emotional connection they create in the initial stages of love is blind. And I like it. I can't tell it. I mean, I like it, all right? And I have a theory as to why, and I'm going to talk about that more. But Netflix has a spinoff series called Perfect Match.

Okay? And I knew some of the characters, and I thought, I'm going to watch. Perfect Match. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do this. Now, perfect match is like Love is Blind, but trashier Like, it's all about hookup culture

And they ostensibly want to find their perfect match And fall in love. But every night, the quick experiment is They put these couples, you know, five guys, five girls, Not Coupled up into a house And every night you have to couple up Or not every night, but every couple of nights You have to couple up.

And if you're left without a match, then you're out of the house. But the trick is every couple of days they introduce two new people. Sometimes it's two dudes, and then other alternatively, it's two women. So you can mix it up. If you don't like your match, you can pick a new match, right? And then somebody else is left out.

And so it becomes like survivor in a way of, you know, strategy somewhat. It's a little bit like musical chairs, but it's garbage. Let's be real. It's not pornography, but there's a lot of bikinis in revealing behavior. hookup culture. But I did it. I binged a perfect match. And on Friday, I got in an airplane from New York back to Dallas. By the way, on the jet bridge, walking down, I met Stefan Gilmore, Stefan Gilmore cornerback for the Dallas Cowboys. I recognized Stefan. He knew I was. We said hi, we talked. Incredibly nice dude. We discussed, hey, man, why haven't the Cowboys resigned you?

I'm not going to give you his answers. What's his future hold? But I can just say, like, Gilmore is awesome but Gilmore sat right behind me caddy corner so the point is stephan could see right through the crack in the two seats in front of him which would have been a direct shot of my iPad I sit down the lady next to me recognizes me big fan fox and friends definitely watches definitely knows things okay so I'm in a predicament the point isn't hey look how many people know what I'm the point is I'm in a predicament, okay? And it was compounded by the fact that then the stewardess revealed herself to be a fan, okay? So, excuse me, flight attendant, revealed herself to be a fan. Okay, so now the point is, I'm triangulated on people watching capable of seeing my

iPad, and I want to binge, you know, some perfect match and get this show over with. But I can't position myself in a way where somebody is not going to see what I'm watching, again, which is not as bad as pornography, but let's be real, this does not reflect on me well. And so ultimately I didn't just go, well, I'm not going to watch Perf match. No, because I'm going to be me and let the chips fall where they may. But I did turn it and angle it, my arm, and in such a way that I hoped to step on and my co-passenger wouldn't see it. And I just said, okay, let the flight attendant think what she thinks. And man, I just slammed through some episodes of Perfect Match. And I thought about this. I told my wife, I told my friends, I was like, what would this be? Because again,

it's not like I'm watching porn, but I'm also not watching like Brett Baer at 6 p.m. So what am I doing? And the best analogy I could come up with was it would be like if I got on the plane and I reached down into my backpack as the plane takes off and everybody around me, we're talking, and I reach into my backpack and I pull out a full-on box, a carton of Twinkies. And I just start mowing through the twinkies one after another like a chain smoker like the minute that i get done shoving one twinkie into my mouth the plastic wrapper into the next twinkie and i feel like that would be the same thing like people look at me and go huh well that's something and they would come away with that's something really gross will's that was gross will you just watched three episodes of

perfect match and i'd have to say yes but these twinkies are good and hopefully then they'd be like, well, you know, that's an interesting quirk. There's just no... Okay, let me do my best to try to resume myself. Here's why I like these kind of shows from time to time. It's not about dating and love.

I don't like The Bachelor. In fact, I've never watched The Bachelor. Maybe I would. But I like Survivor. I like Survivor from day one. I like the sociological experiment that is Survivor. I like people in tribes, strategizing, conniving, lying.

I like to see who lies. and how well they lie. You guys know I like to play the game Mafia, the parlor game with family. You know, every holiday we do that. And I love it. I love playing Mafia. If you know what that is, I think some people call it

Wolf, Werewolf. There might be another name. It's kind of like, you know, role play, and who's the mafia, and you have to lie, and you have to out them. I just like seeing how people operate and how they persuade and how they think and how they interact. And I love Survivor because of that. And that's what I like about Love is Blind.

And I got to thinking, maybe in an attempt to redeem myself, there's a couple of other social experiments that I'd like to see turned into reality shows. First of all, there's a great one that's been turned into a game show. We just had Constantine Kissin and Francis Foster on the show from the Trigonomity Podcast. They're Brits. They did it. They do this more in Britain. They're good at this, making it somewhat intellectual. There was a show called, I think it's called Golden Balls.

and it's basically the prisoner's dilemma. You know this experiment that is the prisoner's dilemma? Like, we can both get out of here, but only if we cooperate. If one of us tries to escape without the other, that one may, but one man will be sacrificed. It's like, so the way they do it in this show called Golden Balls is they're trying to split a pot of money and grow it. And you have two balls, you and somebody else. And you're kind of teammates, but you're kind of negotiating against them. And if you both choose split, then you'll split the money.

both go away with something. But if one of you hit steel and the other hit split, the guy who has steel takes the whole pot of money and the guy who went split gets nothing. But if both of you do steal, you both get nothing. So you're sitting there talking, persuading, trying to understand each other and taking a gamble on how you will both act inside of the prisoner's dilemma. I love that. So I was like, what can we turn? Because I do like the reality show, and let's be real. I do like some trashiness to it. So I was going to, here's a couple of ideas.

Okay, you know the Stanford prison experiment, right? They took Stanford college students. They put half of them inside of a prison, half of them they made guards, and they see how they would adapt and how they would conform their roles, and some of them would become sadistic. I mean, I don't know.

I think they've done that, but, you know, get a good, trashy Netflix producer in there and make that entertaining and fun. That would be interesting. And I found two others in my word. How about the Ash Conformity Study of 1951? The Polish-American social psychologist, whether an individual would conform to a group's decision, even if he knew it was incorrect.

They selected 50 male college students to participate in a vision test. Individuals would have to determine which line on a card was longer. However, the individual at the center of the experiment did not know that the other people in the test were actors following scripts and they were selecting the wrong answer on purpose. And he found that on average 12 trials, one third of the people who honestly thought they were in an experiment conform to the incorrect majority. So a bunch of lying actors got a third of the people to follow along with something they knew inherently was incorrect. Tell me that's not a good reality show. Again, get Jeff Provin.

to Hobbit, post it, make it interesting. And this is kind of tied to that. How about the Milgram experiment of 1963? In the wake of the horrific atrocities carried about Nazi Germany, Stanley Milgram wanted to test the levels of obedience to authority. So, participants in the study, 40 males between ages 20 and 50 were split into learners and teachers, and they, though it seemed random, there were actors in there as well as the learners. And unsuspecting participants who always who were always the teachers. A learner was strapped to a chair with electrodes in one room while the experimenter and another actor

and a teacher went to another. And the teacher and learner went over a list of words that the learner was told to memorize. When the learner incorrectly paired a set of words together, the teacher would shock the learner. So the teacher believed the shocks ranged from mild to almost life-threatening. In reality, the learner was not being shocked.

He was an actor. So how far would the teachers go in doing something sadistic in pursuit of conformity? 65% of the time, which shows the devise the agency theory. You will outsource agency. You will go along. You will even do horrific things, not only incorrect things in order for conformity. That's kind of tied into the conversation we had with the host of trigonometry, what we learned about each other, not just authority when it came to COVID.

So that's my attempt. That's my attempt to redeem myself after watching perfect match, which is not a huge reflection of intellectual understanding and learning. But I did it. I ate a bunch of twinkies on the airplane. And as my producers already say, that's gross, Will. That's going to do it for me today here on The Will Kane Show. I'll see you again tomorrow.

Apple, Spotify, hit subscribe, YouTube, hit subscribe, and I'll see you next time. on The Will Cain Show. Prime members, you can listen to this show, ad-free on the Amazon music app. I'm Janice Dean. Join me every Sunday as I focus on stories of hope and people who are truly rays of sunshine in their community and across the world. Listen and follow now at foxnewspodcast.com.