Will Cain Country - Who Will Win The Big Game w/ Marcellus Wiley

Episode Date: February 9, 2024

Who will win the 58th edition of the big game? Is it ever wise to bet against Patrick Mahomes?    Will sits down with former ESPN host, former NFL Defensive lineman, and host of the Never Shut Up, Marcellus Wiley. Marcellus and Will breakdown the keys to the game for the 49ers and Chiefs, as well as exploring a multitude of areas in sports and life. They delve into Marcellus' journey from Compton to Columbia, who were the toughest offensive lineman Marcellus went up against, as well as final predictions for Sunday's game in Vegas.   Tell Will what you thought about the show by emailing [e-mail]   Follow Will on Twitter: @WillCain Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For a limited time at McDonald's, enjoy the tasty breakfast trio. Your choice of chicken or sausage McMuffin or McGrittles with a hash brown and a small iced coffee for $5.5 plus tax. Available until 11 a.m. at participating McDonald's restaurants. Price excludes flavored iced coffee and delivery. Who will win the Super Bowl? wise to ever bet against Patrick Mahomes. A conversation with Marcellus Wiley. What's up?

It's the Will Cain Show at Fox News podcast, Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your audio entertainment. You can always watch the Will Cain Show on YouTube. Streams live Monday through Thursday at the Fox News YouTube channel, and it's on demand at the Will Cain Show on YouTube. Here we are, Super Bowl weekend. Kansas City Chiefs, San Francisco 49ers. Let's break the game down, who will be the winner,

and explore some other areas within the world of life and sports with former ESPN and Fox Sports analyst Marcellus Wiley. Marcellus is now the owner of Brinks TV, and he's also the founder of Project Transition. He is an independent mind. he is unique in the world of sports. He is a friend of mine from back in my days at ESPN. He's somebody that I think deserves your attention.

I think there are very few people that objectively earn those adjectives of unique and independent. But certainly one of those people who has earned those adjectives is Marcellus Wiley. In this conversation, we talk about the Super Bowl. We talk about him growing up in Compton and going to Columbia. We talk about who's the best offensive lineman he ever faced. and we get his pick for the winner of the Super Bowl. Here is Marcellus Wiley, my old friend. So great to see him again.

It's been way too long, too many years. Oh, man, I got to do it like I used to always do it. Will Cain is in the building. What's up, brother? How are you? I'm good, man. I'm good. I'm glad to be back connected with you.

I'm going to tell you why in the course of this conversation together, why I'm so glad to be back and connected with you. But I want to start, you're in Vegas already. I want to start with the Super Bowl, think. Tell me, let's start right out of the gates with your pick. What is going to happen here? Niners, Cheese, Super Bowl. Oh, I appreciate it, man. You must just give me the biggest compliment, because I'm still in L.A., actually. This is my home set in my home studio, but look, I guess the support is kicked in. My pick is a slap in the face and don't bet against

Patrick Mahomes anymore. I've eaten too much crow, betting against Patrick Mahomes. It's and the Chiefs over the years. This dynasty is real, win or lose, just because they always put themselves in position to win it all. So I'm going with the Kansas City Chiefs. I've seen the San Francisco 49ers play great games, but also sputter. And I think in this moment, Brock Purdy, who I think is a very good quarterback,

will look at those lights. And they're not too bright for them, but just like anyone when you first see the day of light, you got to adjust. And in those moments while he's adjusting his eyes, Patrick Mahomes is making the scoreboard adjust. So I think that the Chiefs continue to roll, man, and they get them another championship.

Hey, man, I am fascinated by Brock Purdy. I said this earlier this week. At some point, and I count myself among this crowd, I have to stop relying on what I used to think about Brock Purdy, and I start having to factor in what's actually happening before my eyes was Brock Purdy. I mean, look, I saw him play at Iowa State. I saw him go to San Francisco. I know he got into one of the best situations you could possibly land in Kyle Shanhan. And I thought, well, you could put Tua. You could put DAC. You could put anybody in the situation

that Brock Purdy is in, and they're going to end up in the exact same place. But at some point, I've got to give him credit for what he's actually doing. And I started thinking about historical comps, Marcel. So I was like, to win like this, this early in your career, very rare, does it that you fade into the background and you're like a one-hit wonder. More often than not, we're watching the beginning of something. And I'm not saying he's Tom Brady, but it reminds me of the start of Tom Brady when everybody's like, oh, he's a game manager. Oh, he's a sixth-round draft pick. We dismissed it until it became undeniable. And I have to wonder if we're not doing the same thing with Brock Purdy. Oh, we're absolutely doing the same thing. We're guilty of it.

And this is why they always say you don't get a second chance to make a first impression. And your first impression when it comes to an NFL player is the draft process. You know, you can see someone in college and say, oh, he's amazing. But then once he gets drafted low, you label that guy. He has that stigma on him. And we've all been through it, whether it's you after puberty and the girl's like, that's will? Like, and she just can't believe. And you're like, yeah, I've changed.

You know, I'm not the same guy Iowa State. I'm Brock Purdy now, I'm 49th's quarterback. Look at me. It happened to me when I got drafted. I got much cuter to the girls who remember me from high school, not looking the same. Maybe my bank account changed, too. So we've all been through it. Here's the thing with Brock Purdy.

It doesn't matter how it's going to turn out. We've seen players go all across the board. Let me give it to you like this. We've seen the Donovan McNabb, who looked like a future Hall of Famer because he continued to be in the NFC, championship game year after year, and then it just went away. It just went a different direction in terms of highest career ended. We've seen people start slow, and then Rich Gannon turns out to be an NFL MVP and

becomes a machine later in his career. We've seen John Elway, wait, wait, wait, wait, get his championships at the end. We've seen it so many ways. Why are we trying to predict the Brock Purdy way? Right now, he has led the NFL in statistical categories and put. put his team in position to win a championship. Do you know how hard that is? Like for anyone who doesn't believe in Brock Purdy,

let me just tell you how hard it is just to make it to the NFL, let alone be on the team, let alone to get some reps and practice, let alone be the starter, let alone lead the league in categories. That's not by luck. That's by him and his skill set, respected for what it is right now. I love what you said because, and we will do it after the Super Bowl, We always did.

Like, what was the formula? What was the path that's repeatable? So somebody else can build a championship. But you laying out all those different paths from Rich Gannon to Donovan McNabb shows there is no repeatable formula. There is no secret ingredient. I do like that because it's in the face of what we try to do in copying success. By the way, do you think you ever get over first impressions?

do you think no matter how much money you make or how much better looking that you get, those high school girls ever truly think of you than the way they thought of you in high school? No, no. And I've had this candid conversation back in those days. I remember saying, like, no, you didn't really like me then. And now you don't really like me then. It's just because things have changed. And are you really going to buy into me?

Like, you really wanted Brad. But Brad didn't turn out like you thought Brad would. So now I'm plan B. You don't having those conversations. It's so funny. And back to your earlier question, I played against Tom Brady when he threw his first NFL touchdown pass. I literally was the defensive end coming around the corner about a yard or so away about to get Brady. He throws it, I look up, touchdown.

You know what I thought in my head? Whatever. Who is Tom Brady? Like, we were just happy we didn't have to play Drew Bledsoe, right? And we're like, ah, this dude ain't going to be anything. And he looked up, he beat us in that game. We look up. He becomes the goat.

So it's not by design, guys, relax, just enjoy the ride. Speaking of you in Defensive End and your path, which is not a traditional path, I think I've asked you this before off camera. I might have asked you on camera. Your story is so unique. Like, why did you go from Southern California to Columbia? It's either, like, if somebody's looking from the outsides like, this guy was always interested in the best education he could find, or you flew under the radar and didn't get

the offers from the big programs that you wanted, and the best you could find was Columbia. How does Marcellus Wiley end up in the Ivy League? Well, there's another or. I actually did get the offers, not the Crem de la Crem, like Alabama and Michigan wasn't calling me. But I had offers to go to UCLA, could have went to Cal, Pac-12 schools, et cetera. So I was like a four-star, you know, maybe three, high three, low four. I was in that world. So I had opportunities, but I didn't want to go to a football factory. To be candid, I knew what people were saying about me and saying about people where I'm from,

from Compton, from Los Angeles, South Central. The statistics said that you weren't going to make it. I lived in the dumb jock era where, you know, every time you said you play football, people look down on you, like, oh, really? Okay, that's why you're here. And I also knew being a black man and a big black man from Compton

just didn't sound like people were respecting it like they should. So I said something about my resume, this perception of me, has to look different, really express who I am, be who I am, be unique.

And I always believed that I was a student athlete. I had great success in the classroom. I was intellectually curious. I was a bona fide nerd, and I was proud to be a nerd. Used to watch all the Revenge of the Nerds movies, like, yeah, that's me. And then I was also watching the football movies.

I was like, yeah, that's me. I'm the MVP and the class valedatorium, right? Loved it. And I hated that I had to choose or prioritize sports, which I knew was going to come to an end, whether it was high school, college, or even a pro level, playing 10 years, retiring at 32, had much more life to live. So I made a choice to bet on my brain between my ears,

then bet on my body. I said, look, if I make it to an end of it, I'm making it to the NFL, great. And going to Columbia, I knew that people would assume my intelligence. They would just look at me and be like, oh, you went to Columbia? And I saw it in when I took my recruiting trips. I told everybody where I went. And every one of my friends was excited about the football schools.

And all of the teachers and counselors and the principal, they were excited about Columbia. So I just bet on the elders and their wisdom. And I said, let me go there because I know things will be different. And it actually was. Who did it come down to? Columbia wouldn't be the only program that would offer you that, you know, whatever we're talking about, reputational advancement that you wanted. I mean, you could have, I assume if you can go to Columbia, you can go to Princeton.

Cal is a great school. So who did it come down to and why was it Columbia? Yeah, no other Ivy League recruited me. Now, you want to know why? Because I'm not the first and not the last. I still hear this story. Columbia recruits the most in New York and the second in California. So they took the risk.

All the other Ivy League schools didn't take the risk because they were like, we're not going to be able to get a football player from California. So that was their assumption. They were wrong because they should have tried. I still would have went to Columbia because it's in New York City. But UCLA was the closest. And I had a dark horse there. I wanted to go to Cal, but the coach, Coach Snyder, he left, went to Arizona State.

I didn't want to go to Arizona State, but Cal was close. If coach would have stayed at Cal, it could have been Cal, UCLA, or Columbia. But football factories. Like, I'm from L.A. Like, you know, knowing Kishan Johnson growing up, and he's like my big brother. I know ballers. And I'm like, I'm not going to those schools with all those other five stars just because I'm a football player. I have more to me.

I have other dimensions I want to develop. And it was no slight to them. was just a slight to that experience. And I'm glad I went to Columbia. I give it to you in the short. At Columbia, I realized that there were only three Ivy League players in the NFL at that time. I was like, dang. And then on the same page, I read that we had six owners from the Ivy League. I'm like, there are more owners in the Ivy League than actual players. It was just a different dynamic and different perspective, brother. You keep using that term football factory. You know, I have a nephew, Marcellus, who is, he was a four-star.

He could have gone anywhere he wanted. He plays offensive line. He went to Odessa Permian, which is famous from Friday Night Lights. And he chose Clemson. You know, his uncle's, me, is a big Texas Longhorn fan. He thought about the Longhorns. He thought about A&M. He could have gone anywhere.

He chose Clemson. And you know why? Because of what you just described, among the powerhouses, it feels apparently, as told it feels the least like a football factory. It feels like a family, whatever Dabo has created there. It is something different in its feel from every other program in college. Yeah, you got to love that too. And that's what you want. You want to develop yourself and all the muscles, especially the ones that haven't been fully developed or some that are going to atrophy because you're going down the same yellow brick road. So look, I don't have any slights

towards that experience for anybody. I know it in and out. It's just there's more to you. And are you going somewhere that's going to develop all of you or more than just your football skills? And a lot of kids, look, at that age, you're not thinking about alumni. You're not thinking about where are you trying to make your nest

in terms of home life. And Kishan actually told me something very interesting. I love to repeat it to all the kids out there to have decisions to make. he says, try to pick a school where you're going to actually live because that network will be vibrant. It will be existing right there at your doorstep versus, oh, when I go back to school for reunion, when I go back to school for homecoming, et cetera. And I didn't even think like that. I wasn't going to live in New York City. I took it as a paid vacation of sorts. So the experience is just to develop you. That's what college was and that's what college is.

It's a means to an end. Make sure it gives you the best resume possible. Kishon is spot on with that. And that's something I learned after college as well. I went to Southern California for college, but I always probably knew I'd end up living back in Texas. And I love my college experience, but I don't have the network from college that you would want to have wherever it is that you live, exactly is described by Kishan. Hey, so I think it's a truism that is a generalization, but still a truism, that we are products of our environment. You brought up Compton. And by the way, you know, my introduction to Compton, Marcellus, and we're roughly probably the same age, is Boys in the Hood.

It's NWA and Boys in the Hood. That's how I first learned about Compton, right? And then I went to college in Malibu, admittedly. But, you know, yeah, I mean, I got to know L.A. a little bit. And I've always been fascinated by things. I fall down the rabbit hole of learning. And I've watched documentaries on Crips and Bloods. I've even spent time on maps looking at like who owned what streets and what.

areas like pyru bloods you know and versus this sect of uh this set of crips um and i don't know where you grew up in compton but if it's true marcellus that we are products for our environment and that at least at some level is was present in your life at some level i'm curious where you absorbed so much wisdom because what you just described about why you picked up uh Columbia and the way you thought about your life beyond football at an age when very few people, white, black, rich, poor can think beyond, hey, the mindset of an 18 year old. It's hard to ask, I tell my son this, it's even hard to know where you're going to live. So if you want to do this networking thing, it's hard at 18 to go,

hey, I think I might know where I'm live when I'm 30. But you were thinking beyond the opportunity in front of you in a situation where it wouldn't have been the easiest to be immersed in wisdom, you come away from it and approach it with wisdom. How? Yeah, buckle up, brother. Yeah, you know, I used to hear that growing up, product of your environment. And I used to always flip it, not to be contrarian, but what I got juice from was saying, I'm going to produce for my environment instead of being a product of. And that made me start to have a different mindset. I used to always tell myself, I got to be greater than my greatest excuse. And we all have excuses. I don't care how rich you are. I know very, very wealthy kids and I know

very, very poor kids. And I was one of them. I grew up on welfare food stamps, all that. But I say, I've got to be greater than my greatest excuse. Because if not, I'm going to be stuck right where I am right now. Now, so how did that get reinforced? How did I start to gain some wisdom from my experience? The adversity that came my way, the gangs, the drugs, the poverty. That was all child. just like in the movies like everyone has heard in the music. But the most damning thing, the thing that undermined most people to me wasn't that. It was the low ambition. Their dreams have been beaten out of them by their circumstances.

I'm a product of my environment. So they started to really internalize all of these ills. And I started to notice, why is everybody snapping? Why is everybody mad? Why is everyone so short? Why is their mother mad at the kid at the toy store for picking up a toy? what do you expect? He wants a toy. He's at a toy store. But don't you go in there and talk anything. Don't you go in there and touch anything. And I was the victim of a lot of that.

And I was like, what is really at the core of this? Ah, people are not living out their dreams. Their dreams aren't their reality. People have jobs, not careers. So I started to just take evidence of my own family. And I had a lot of uncles in the streets. And three of them, two got murdered, one committed suicide because of the street life, gangbanging. I didn't even know they were gangsters. I just loved my uncles. Then I start looking and then, you know, they got into the troubles, et cetera. Then they do wear a lot of blue and it's like what? And then it just all started to happen for real. Like, oh, the people everyone's talking about, they're talking about my family. They're talking about my uncles. They're talking about us. And I used to watch my uncles literally

walk out the house and get respect. Howard, people would salute them, bow down. They scared the world. And then they walked back in this house, broken, crying, hurt. Didn't even have that much money as people thought. Bought it all just a flash for everyone else to see and didn't have any of it stored and saved up. And I used to just sit there behind the veil of this perception

of what the street life really is. And I was like, y'all getting fooled. This ain't it. And so I just went on a mission with only two weapons, which was I was a good student and I was fast. I knew I could run. I could race anybody and beat them. I was just a fast little kid.

And I just took those two and just ran with it. So I never let anyone compromise my academics. I didn't let my school decision compromise it or change it. I always kept that balancing act. So all of it came from really looking at my mother, a straight-a-student who had two kids, 17 and 19, being told she would make nothing of her life. And I was like, if she didn't achieve exactly what she wanted because she poured it all into us, it's on me.

That responsibility is mine to make my dreams a reality. Did anybody ever try to pull you into the gangs? I mean, gentle pulls. Like, look, I don't think anybody could pull you into the gang. I really don't. I think what happens is they pull and you, you know, you ever see somebody that, come here. And you go, no, I don't want to come.

I don't want to come. And then you finally, you just relent and you go. Yeah, they grab my hand. And then I was like, man, move. I slapped their hand away. Like, I don't, I wasn't attracted to it because I actually saw it. It's weird to me. I think a lot of times, either, A, they get to the kid before the kid even knows who they are.

So I had an identity already. I thought I was a smart football player that ran track. I thought I was somebody already. Even at age seven and eight, I knew I was something. And I tell kids all the time working with my foundation project transition, the way to find out your identity, it doesn't have to be traditional. Stop sitting down and just beating yourself up saying, who am I? What am I? How about you start off instead of saying, who am I? Say, who am I not? Right. Start off by saying, I am not a gangster. I am not a drug dealer. I am not a bad kid. I am not going to get caught up in these streets.

So instead of always saying what you're going to be and who you are, just say what you're not and start there. So I had a starting point that was probably different than some of those other kids attracted to that life. It is time to take the quiz. It's five questions in less than five minutes. We ask people on the streets of New York City to play along. Let's see how you do. Take the quiz every day at the quiz.com. Then come back here to see how you did.

Thank you for taking the quiz. Listen to the old new Brett Bear podcast. featuring common ground in-depth talks with lawmakers from opposite sides of the aisle along with all your brett bear favorites like his all-star panel and much more available now at foxnewspodcasts.com or wherever you get your podcasts so you brought up that you were fast you go to columbia you're running back at some point you get shifted over to defensive line so i don't know if this is um accurate but the the defensive line offensive line personality generalization seems kind of accurate and it doesn't matter it doesn't seem to matter white or black meaning white offensive linemen black offensive linemen seem to be

pretty low key dudes not too high not too low you know uh where defensive linemen seem to be all passion fire and and um maybe more emotionally driven play to play and i'm sure that's not the case as get to higher levels, but maybe, maybe. Now, there are exceptions. You played with him or against him. I don't know if Larry Allen was fiery. I always remember the story of Larry Allen walking up to the line and telling the Green Bay Packers, you know, and it meant we're running right behind me. I'm telling you where the ball is coming, to try to do something to stop it. But first of all, you move from running back to defensive line. Did you automatically have the personality type, and am I right about the personality type between offensive line and defensive line?

line. Yeah, you're right about the personality types. I got forced to move the defensive end. I still play running back all four years at Columbia, but my first two exclusive running back. Then that turned into one day we recruited the California State High School rushing leader of all time named Jeff Bird. He ended up going to Columbia for one year transfer and going to Stanford, big time player. And I remember coach was looking at him in practice and I was looking at the practice first day and coach looked at me and said, Marcellus, you're our best player, but you're not our best running back. We need to switch you.

And I'm like, all right, I get it. I'm like 6.3, 240 at the time. I'm playing like Brandon Jacobs, Kristen McCoy, a style running back. He's like, switch the D.N. And I hated it. I hated it because at running back, I had the ball and I had the opportunity to escape all of the pain. Now, every play ended up pain because they had to tackle me, but at least I had the option.

And playing D.N., you have no options. every single play. Boom, boom. I'm like, what is this? Like, said hike, I'm like, what? I got to hit somebody every play. They're like, yeah, bro. And then the craziest thing is when we play running back

and it was like a shell practice or, you know, shorts and t-shirts, running back's chilling. Don't touch me. You know, I'm almost like the quarterback. Like, I'm protected. Oh, not D.N. You play D.N.

You're going against the O linemen. Even in shorts and T-shirts, we're punching each other. So I hated playing D&, you know, has success at it. And look, when I got to the pros, it was so funny. All the offensive linemen, generally cerebral, chill, like big fat mammals. Like, you know, we're just hanging like platypususes. They just sit there. They didn't want to do anything, but when they did it, oh, they did it with power.

Defensive linemen, a little more energetic than the O line, not trying to do much, but going to do more than the O-line. And usually the wilder bunch of the two for sure. O-Lyman, more frat-boyish, like, oh, let's act up. And D-Lyman, like, let's act up and then let's act out. And it's a little different. Mm-hmm. By the way, did you just destroy competition at Columbia?

I mean, you were, what, you get picked in the second round, 52nd or something like that. So, which, by the way, for the NFL to say, I'm taking an Ivy leaguer, right? That's a talk about reputation. That's not a reputation that helped you. you in football. So there was probably some debate about quality of competition with you, but you must have just been destroying the Ivy League. No, I mean, by the stats, no,

not by the stats. Look, I was getting double, triple team, maybe four guys on me at times. What it was is I had running back qualities in a defensive lineman, prototypical D-Line body. I was 6-4-2-80. And at that time, that was perfect numbers. He could play to run. and you also go get the quarterback. I was really more of a run defensive end, but because I could move, they tried to say I was a pass rushing defense event. I was actually mislabeled.

I was 282 when I got drafted. But at Columbia, no, I think I had six sacks my last year. But if you watch the film, I'm running all around. I'm making play after play all across sideline to sideline. And because I had the measurables, I looked apart and I actually was playing well. They were like, dude, I was supposed to go as high as 15. But then they start watching the film and it's like, is that against Yale?

Is that Princeton? Is that a CEO in the making that he's going against? Let's just drop him a little bit. So it did learn the draft process. He just destroyed the future CEO of Halliburton. How does that help the Ravens? Exactly. Not exactly going to go well against Johnson Ogden.

Not exactly. Speaking of that, who's the best tackle you win against in your, by the way, six sacks at Columbia, you end up with at least two seasons over 10 sacks in the NFL. But who's the best you win against, offensive line? Walter Jones. I say it fast because it was obvious. Look, I went against. Orlando Pace came out my year. He was the number one pick of my draft class. John Tink, Ogden, we had some dogs. Chris Samuels, the beast, Loselle Adams, like, I see. seen so many great tackles. I'm so glad I didn't get any of Tony Buceli because, boy, his moments were insane.

Him and Bruce Smith used to have those wars. Bruce would sit me down that week, like, hey, not this week. You're not getting reps, bro. That's me and Tony, let's go to war. But Walter Jones, his recovery speed, I think he ran a four-six. They say he ran a four-sixth at Florida State at 300-plus pounds. And I just remember, even a couple of times I beat him, he would recover and come back and he stayed so poised and calm, always in his own skin, just a tremendous talent,

like bigger than you, but as athletic, if not more, it was just weird to see. And he wouldn't say a word, but he was putting those paws on you every play. Did you talk? Were you a talker? Oh, I'm a talker. I'm a jokester. I'm going to make light of everything. I laugh in my pain.

It's just a game, relaxed, brother. I'm going as hard as I can, a thousand percent, trust me. But I'm laughing. I'm giggling. I'm like, oh, that ain't hurt. Oh, you got me here. You know, I just try to make fun of it. And one of my jealousies of today's game is the content that they create from walking in

the stadium and getting the guys out of their cars and all of their outfits and mic up to this degree and you just know so much. locker room, you got the camera, because not only myself, but a lot of guys in our era were characters. And all of that is lost because we just didn't look at it the same. They didn't monetize it. They didn't even think to structure it the same. But yeah, I was a character out there, man. I had a lot of fun. So sometimes I see a highlight with me dancing and then I say, all right, they caught some of it. Well, you might be jealous of that. You cannot be jealous of how hard it is for a defensive lineman, anybody rushing the quarterback, to hit him just right.

You know, below the shoulder pads, above the knees, but don't drive him into the ground, get there as fast as you can, but then pull up at the last second, impossible. Yeah, it is. It's tough. Look, I'm torn on that because we are so highly skilled. Do you know that I learned how to fall because I played football? I've never taken any formal training, no martial arts class, nothing. I just learned from all the years of football that when I'm in the air, I still have

control. I learned this because I was in Barbados on the team cruise, and long story short, one of my teammates and I were racing, and I know we're in the air, and he got the worst of it. And I'm in the air, and I'm about to hit this center divider. And I'm literally about to go head into a center divider head on. I'm like, oh, no, no, I'm not. And I literally turn, curl up, shrimp up, and land and like this tuck and roll. And I was like, I did that in the air.

So I know that these players, when they were complaining, when they were changing the contact area, I'm like, shut up. I know I can move micro movements in milliseconds. I know how to do this. And y'all do too. You're just mad because you wanted to knock his head off and now they won't let you. Just say it for what it really is. So there are times where I'm like, dude, you had to hit him in the knees.

Like you got, you got on the ground and you just scraping and sprawling. Yeah, I get those. but those are few and far between. Most of the times, these guys are so skilled, so well trained. They can adjust it. They're snipers with their bodies. They know where to hit. They just sometimes don't want to do it.

You were surprised by your own athleticism. Sometimes I blow myself away. So speaking of talking, you have surprised me in a way that I think I have a legitimate reason to be surprised. So you and I knew each other at ESPN. We didn't know each other well because I was on the East Coast and you were in Los Angeles. We did first take together from time to time. I always knew you were boys with Max because you and Max Kellerman had a radio show together. And Max and I actually always got along.

I like Max, but we had our heated debates on the show. And I don't want to use the word politics, but that does run under the current of a lot of things. So if I'm being honest, it's part of it. But it's a lot, you know, when we're doing, we're doing sports, it's mostly cultural. And a lot of times, Marcellus, I mean, I felt like a man on an island at ESPN. I felt like I'm the only one giving voice to anything outside of what I felt like was the acceptable thought process at not just ESPN, but really honestly, in the whole world of sports media. And then I look up after your, you're, I mean, I think I started to see you at FS1. And I was like, oh, he's saying things that I didn't know Marcellus thought.

And no one else is saying much of. And now you're on your own and you're doing it more on your own show. And I don't want to put you in a box. It's not like, oh, Marcellus is more conservative than I thought. Or Marcellus is taking some lefts when I thought he'd go right on race or whatever it may be. The main word is it's just independent. You're very independent in your thought process. And I'm surprised because I don't know that I saw that coming from our time together at ESPN.

Yes, it's interesting. I know exactly what you're talking about, that evolution. Look, I am independent in the sense of you ask me a question. I'm going to answer it truthfully, too. And that may take me all across the board. I think if you had to spec out my opinions, you would see that they cover the entire gamut. Why? Because your question is probably going to take me there.

my experience is going to show me that this is true and this is also true at the same time. The only box I can be put in is no box. I've been that way since I was little, man. This is the story of my life. You know, I'm walking around streets, L.A. And then, you know, the perception is, oh, he may be in the gangs, he may be in the drugs. He may just be a same old football player, that's it kind of kid. And people used to freak out when I showed up to the academic decathlon team.

I'm like, yeah, I'm here too. Like, what are you doing here? They used to freak out when I used to do some of the things I did growing up. Going to Columbia, a lot of my friends, I mean, literally look me in my face, said, dog, you're not going to make it to the league now. I was like, what? Yeah, I can, et cetera. So what you're talking about is how the introduction of politics, I will use the word,

into us talking on air about sports, really happened a little before. the pandemic, obviously George Floyd, et cetera. We start seeing Black Lives Matter, everything started happening. And they were asking real questions. And I looked around, there was a lot of pandering. I looked around, a lot of production meetings weren't authentic. I looked around and I'm working with people who were just saying anything because they knew it would land well with the masses. And I said, that's not the question. I'm answering the question. And it didn't hit me that things were turning until I saw people's reaction to me. And I was like, why are they reacting that way? Oh, because they haven't been empowered to think or say what I'm

saying. And literally, this is what told me that, whoa, I'm into something else. This is something different. People with platforms would be on air saying one thing and then text me and say, keep saying what you're saying. You're telling the truth. And I'm like, but you're not. telling the truth. They're like, no, dog, I can't say that. No, no, no, no, no. The first one, I think, it was either Colin Kaepernick or Black Lives Matter. And I had my issues. And Black Lives Matter was easy. I was like, dog, just read the mission statement. This ain't deep. Like, people were like, oh, my God, what is Marcel saying? I'm like, tell me what I'm saying. I'm repeating. I'm literally over here looking at what they

are writing. And I'm like, I disagree. Do you? Oh, you didn't read it? No wonder. Why am I the bad guy? because I read. So I was the guy, and I have A-list celebrities on down. And I would never out them. I'm not that guy. But I've looked at guys just saying one thing on air for the world and living a completely different existence. I'm not built that way.

Because if I was built that way, I wouldn't have made it this far. I wouldn't have made it out of my circumstances. So if you ask me, you're going to get the answer. Following Fox's initial donation to the Kerr County Flood Relief Fund, our generous viewers have answered the call to action across all Fox platforms and have helped raise $7 million. Visit go.com forward slash TX flood relief to support relief and rebuilding efforts.

Yeah, I forgot that you talked about that with Black Lives Matter. I mean, you just, as you mentioned, you read the mission statement at being anti-family or the embrace of Marxism or whatever it may be. You literally just read it and shared that. And even guys like, you know, Mark Cuban is one that's constantly telling me, oh, that's not what that really means when I'm like, well, but I read what they mean, you know, and people turn it into what they want it to mean. They want it to mean. And that's often, and I'm not saying everybody, but it's often how they want to be received to your point. I got those same text. I wouldn't say the people that text me, Marcellus, were saying different things on air, but they were silent often. I would get the messages, I'm glad you're saying this. And I I was thinking, well, I wish you would as well, but they did. So I know what you're talking about. Yeah, their silence is complicity.

Like people, and it's so crazy, I just look at the world now in that mindset that there is a silent majority. I know a lot of people who will not step into the waters that I love to swim in. They're like, nope, not doing it. And then I know people that do. and what happens is I don't like this. I don't like the one that's silent.

I don't like the one that's lying, pandering. I hate panders. But I also don't like the person that is not scared to say it, but then becomes divisive themselves. Like, I'm only saying all of this in the spirit of, dude, you over there and you over there

really don't have the issues you think, but because you guys won't come here together and talk through it, you guys just keep throwing spitballs at each other. And I'm like, it's not that crazy. So I learned this from my experience, going from Compton to Columbia, makes you bilingual. I learned fluently how to speak have and have nots. I know exactly what they're saying right here, and I know exactly what they're saying and doing right here. And guess what?

It's not that different. It just looks different. We're all uniquely the same. You can list the 10 things every person wants. Health, wealth, safety. We're all the same. It's just different displays of it. And I'm laughing at this world where people get lost in those displays

instead of the thing that really is the common thread in all of us. So I'm not scared to thread it. And it hurts because I couldn't do what I wanted to do in sports media any longer. it hurts because I know how easy that job is, how lucrative that job is. It hurts even doing my own show that I'm talking in a way that people, they don't want to, like you said, publicly support all the time. So it's easier to talk something that is low frequency to get higher ratings. But I'm talking high frequency, which won't always get public support,

but people do what you're doing. They nod and they give you that daft when they see you. Well, I said this at the outset. I think you're going to find success. I mean, I truly do, and I think you should pursue it independently, not because I agree with some of the things you're saying, but because when I hear you talk, I think it's independent and therefore it's unique, and that's going to find an audience, because everything else sounds the same. Here, let's do this. I want to return to Super Bowl in one minute, but I want to apply what we're talking about to one issue in the news this week. So one of the things, Marcel is, like, if I looked back at my time at ESPM, the main reason people had a problem with me or called me a racist is because I often would not jump to the conclusion of racism. So in other words, if something came up, I'd be like, well, let's see what else could be at play here. And I'm not saying racism doesn't exist, right? But before we jump to, oh, yet another example of racist America, let's kind of see what could be at play. And for example, one of the things that people do, I think on an individual level and at a societal level, is they

presume any negative interaction is because of your superficial characteristics. And I think it's a great cop out for people like what you do is you've given yourself a pass for maybe a bad personality or maybe the way that you handle people. Not every time somebody reacted to you that way is because of your race. Maybe it's actually because of you. But so here's how I'm going to apply it. Our old friend Stephen A. Smith brought up Cliff Kingsbury getting the job at the commanders. And I don't know if this was tied to Eric B. Enemy getting fired, but Stephen A said, you know, Cliffs getting these second and third chances because he's white in a way that a black guy wouldn't get second or third chances. And this is, it'd be interesting

because I don't know where you'll go with this. But it's kind of tied to Bienemy who was fired as offensive coordinator from the commanders. And everybody would use Bienemy as an example, well, black coaches don't get a fair shake. But something lurking in the background of B enemy for me was, yeah, but something about Biener me is rubbing people the wrong way, either ownership or players, and it could just be his personality. And then we heard that this year with the commanders. We heard that a lot of players like, his personality doesn't work with us. So I'm just curious what you think about that story, both the Kingsbury and B Enemy. Yeah, man, you gave me a whole lot there because you took me back to the ESPN days when you

weren't well liked. And I forgot that. My experience with you was I liked you. We went to some tournament or we did something off-site one time. And we exchanged. numbers and stayed in touch. I was like, oh, Will Kane's cool. And then it was weird because you were received differently than I experienced. So I was like, oh, well, that's them. They're lost. They don't get it. And then because of my relationship with Max,

everyone was like, oh, well, you all got to be banging on each other. You can't like Will Kane and Max Keller me. I was like, what is going on? These people are kids. So I just remember all of that and you're bringing it up. I used to get disgusted at how Stephen A. Smith or anybody else were

cheapen racism to the point that they did so many times. I worked with so many people that would do it, you know, they were just cheaping it. I was like, and I remember coming up with like a statement. It was more poetic in the moment, but I was basically like, if you have to squint and think about it, it's not racist because racism would hit you. And they're like, no, it's microaggressions and stuff. I said, well, we just changed the word. I said, but what you're trying to say is you're trying to now make everything about race. So, you know, specifically talking about this situation,

Eric B. Enemy is interesting. He has a story passed, right? But, oh, that's a long time ago. He gets to Kansas City for many years, has tremendous success. The problem with his position in Kansas City is simple. It would have happened to anybody. You're next to the guru, the offensive mind Yoda of this generation, and Andy Reid, you're not going to get proper credit.

That would have happened with a white guy, too. you just don't get proper credit. Now, the opportunity to get another job is not based on the race if you get the opportunity. And he got opportunities. He didn't win the room. Now, that's where it gets into this conversation of his race. Well, it could be personality. It could be attitude.

It could be behavioral. I noticed this, that a lot of times when someone says racism, they're obviously trying to exclude accountability. They're trying to say, well, it's not about anything else, but my epidermis and his complexion. I'm like, what did you do? So this conversation happens a lot candidly. I'm like, okay, you know, our friends that got in trouble before and then the police, they were like, all the police was tripping and doing this and then I said, what'd you do?

Oh, he came in me and told me to stand still. I was like, why? And I was like, oh, okay, and then he took off. I was like, wait a minute, where you go? And he's like, you start to hear like, my dad taught me 10 and 2, yes, sir, no, sir, and he said, you'll be fine. To the point, people get mad at me when I say this statement, which should be a statement that's aspirational. People get mad when I tell them, I have never experienced racism.

Now, they're like, no way. You grew up in Compton all this. I said, dog. First of all, in Compton, weren't anything white people to be racist against me. Like, I didn't see white people. I was of an age, right? So I'm like, who's going to be racist against me? I didn't see no white people.

I've had conversations like this. A lot of people have said this. that they haven't experienced it. But that doesn't negate those who have. But for you to squint all the time and to always try to insert it. And you know, look, Stephen A, that's one of his cards. He plays that card, right?

It's obvious. And whatever, it's led to tremendous success for him, except the respect that I have for what he's saying and its impact has diminished over the years because I know what he's doing. We're all in the circus. We're just not all in that same tent. So in this situation, who knows? All I know is they both have tremendous resumes.

One of them won the room. There have been reports from players, from reporters, that the enemy is hard to be around. Like, he literally got to town, wanted to be the new sheriff in town, and probably rub some people the wrong way. And it's not just players. Meanwhile, Cliff, who has the best house I've ever seen on video, You remember when he was the draft about two, three years ago? Yeah. In Arizona with a fireplace on. I was like, oh, he's a boss. But the point is he has this, whatever, his resume is good offensively.

And more importantly, he probably won the room and having rub people the wrong way. To make that about race, I think that's too simple, too lazy. Yeah. You hurt my feelings when you told me that nobody liked me to SPN. I don't know on Twitter like everybody else. I'm like, y'all don't like, we're okay. You know my experience real quick on that. The people that didn't like me didn't know me.

Anyone that, like, you spent some time and got to know me, no, I wasn't coming at this from some negative place. You mentioned somebody trying to be divisive. I've never tried to be divisive. But I've also not told the truth as I see it because I want to be liked. I've never done that either. And so the people that ended up not liking me are the ones that don't know me. But I will say, it has, there are guys who I was friends with at ESPN, who I think knew

me who now that I'm at Fox or whatever my opinions may be, you know, they're not necessarily my friends anymore. And that's not my doing. And that's the only ones to bother me. Like you knew me. You know who I am. Like, why are we not friends now? I'm with you, man. Look, I don't wrap my identity around my ideas. And I think that's an issue a lot of people do. Like my identity is deeper than just my ideas because my ideas will change. based on informed information. Like, we can have a conversation about something right now that I am determined to say is this.

And then you come with examples that make me think about that and maybe move off that position ever so slightly or even in a larger respect. So I'm not built like that, but so many people are. I don't know if it's just deep insecurity to prove that they're intelligent or to prove that they're likable or they want to be liked. I call it a cocktail party.

I'm like, dude, all you're doing is shaking your head saying, yeah, you agree, agree. you don't. But I think what you and I have in common is, I'm not leading what want to be liked. I'm leading with, this is the truth. I'm leading with my experience is my expertise. And then I'll just take it where it goes from there, where I think a lot of times people don't have that level either of sophistication, intelligence, or security. So they're like, I'm going to say what people won't challenge and just move on from there. And that's where we land. And then it's okay. I'm a coon. I'm a sellout. You're a racist on any topic that the masses don't agree with. Duh. And move on. Let's move on finally to the Super Bowl. Back to it. So essentially, I had a conversation with Danny Connell last week about Patrick Mahom's dad bod. And we were talking about, you know, how much do you actually have to lift weights to be, you did at defensive line. But like a quarterback in the end, I mean, can you slam?

it or can you not? You know, like, how much do you have to lift to do that? And Danny said something interesting to me. He said, by the end of the year, most dudes are out of shake. Like, it's hard to keep up a schedule of working out and eating right at the end of a 17-week season. And then I see you already pumping your fist and saying that. And then you throw the Super Bowl on top of it, Marcellus, and like whatever this week is like for them in Vegas, which, by the way, the Niners are complaining about their practice facility as compared to the chiefs. I just wonder, you know, at this stage in the season, who's into any kind of routine and what does the Super Bowl do? And we remember the story of Eugene Robinson.

We remember the Atlanta Falcons, you know, and like you get in trouble. It's just kind of wild to think that on the outside, we think, is a science and a routine. It's human. It isn't. And this routine is totally disrupted by the end of the year. Yeah, it's tough, man. one of my greatest struggles, and I don't think I was victorious in it, you know, in my career in this entirety, was keeping the same discipline in the beginning of the season all the way

through the season to the end because aches, pains, you know, distractions, whatever may be. But physically, let's just talk about how you said the dad by. Like, I would literally walk into the season, you know, you got your six-pack, you got your pecks, you know, grab a pencil, do this, and it just stands there. Like, I'm in shape, shape. And then you play a couple of games. And then you're like, man, my hamstring's sore over here. My knee is sore over here.

My ankle sore over there. And then coach is like on Monday, the day after the game, lift weights. And I remember it got introduced because at first it used to be rest on Monday. And then they said, no, let's move around. Get lubricated, as they would say. Get a little gloss on you. And then we start working out on Mondays, which was smart. Because if not, you really just russed up.

you just turn it to an old man by Wednesday practice. So it was smart, but it hurt. And then, you know, the first week you could do it. Second week, you can do it by week 12? You're like, can I cut a couple of these out or stay in the therapy room longer or going to the training room longer and get, you know, next thing you know, you haven't squatted in two weeks. And then that's year one.

And then year two is four weeks. And then, you know, you just start manipulating it to the point where it affects you because it hurts to do it. And even if you're doing it, you're not doing it like you did in July. You're putting on 100 fewer pounds, right? You used to put 300 pounds on there, now it's 200 pounds. It's like, oh, what am I doing? This is not challenging me, but it's just trying to keep you moving.

So Danny nailed it, man. I used to get so mad at myself at the end of the year. And then you couldn't even bench press. He's so tight and tired and hurting. And then getting into a game, get that injection, get that tour dog, get hyped up, put your song on, man. Master P. And next thing you know, I'm lighting you up. So I used to always tell people, it was funny being in the NFL. There were days where I couldn't walk, but I could run.

And that's how the NFL experience is. Wow. And then so who knows who's going to be prepared for this weekend. So we'll end with this. I mean, the Niners, better team. That's the bottom line. I mean, better defensive line, better defense in general, better linebackers, better running back, better except Patrick Mahomes. and I'm with you. I will not bet against Patrick Mahomes, no more. I used to say with Tom Brady, your boy Max,

and I used to have this debate. And I said, Max, you can keep calling the cliff as long as you want, but I'm going to be the last one out of the Tom Brady party. I'll hit the lights.

And I'm beginning to feel that way about Patrick Mahomes. Y'all can pick against him if you want, but I'll be the one that shuts the lights off when the party's over. Man, I know, and I feel bad

because I came a little late to this party. I act like there was another party to be in. And I was like, I'll be there. And everybody already at Patrick's this house. I'm like, damn, I got here. It's already cracking. Look at this. Oh, man. Just, dude, I can't even explain it fully because it's really a balanced conversation of intangibles and tangibles. We see the arm talent. We see the craziness he can do with his arm. But Tom Brady woke us all up in terms of the draft process and what to respect in terms of intangibles. Like, you can't measure the intangibles, but you need to quantify them because Tom Brady showed you, that will take

you to ultimate success time and time again. So, you know, everything that's in the high school locker room, determination, boys, desire, whatever that is that Tom Brady embodied, Patch Mahomes has that. And I swear, even though this is the wrong time to say this, but his dad playing pro ball had a lot to do with it. He just seems more unaffected. in big moments than others. Because I think having a father who played and made it, he's just going to demystify all that stuff. He's just going to be like, here's the antidote.

And I know that because my son is eight right now and compared to other eight-year-olds, I give them antidotes. I give you a quick example. This is what I think Patrick Mahomes was able to do for years and years, and now it's culminated into this existence. My son is super fast.

But no matter how fast you are, in football, I can take an angle and cut you off and still meet you, even if I'm slow. I just could take a better geometrical angle. I got you, geometry. So my son kept, like, every now and then, like, getting frustrated. Somebody got him, flag football, got his flag. I'm faster than him, Daddy, and I said, let's watch this play. So I have slow-moded, literally, and showed him what he needs to do.

All you have to do is when you identify fast guy, take one step at him, threaten him and then make your move and go. He was like, what? I said, all you got to do, go at him and go where you got to go. Next game, I almost cried. My son was running to the same old sideline. Here come this fast kid. I was like, uh, and my son

turned at him and then went this way, the kid jumped in the air and didn't know what to do. And I said, I told you, once you get them doubting themselves, you got them. And so imagine Patrick Mahomes as a professional athlete already digested 20-some years of professional athlete life.

I think he's just a master at his craft right now, and I don't think it's slowing down anytime soon. I am so glad to reconnect with you. I wish you so much success, and I think you're going to find it. I'm really happy you've jumped on the Will Kane Show, and I hope we can do it again. Well, absolutely, big dog. Much love to you, man.

Keep it going. Who cares who likes you? I love you, brother. Thanks, man. There you go. I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Mark. Marcellus Wiley. Again, check them out at Brinks TV.

Go follow him on social media and keep up with all of his podcast and hosting opportunities because you will find them a valuable addition to your media diet. Marcellus Wiley. That's going to do it for me today. I will see you again next time. Listen to ad free with a Fox News podcast plus subscription on Apple Podcast. And Amazon Prime members, you can listen to this show, ad free on the Amazon Music app. This is Jason Chaffetz from the Jason in the House podcast.

Join me every Monday to dive deeper into the latest political headlines and chat with remarkable guests. Listen and follow now at Fox Newspodcast.com or wherever you download podcasts.