Will Cain Country - 'Will Cain Show' Memorial Day Classic: Ft. Jocko Willink, Bill Brown, Jason Redman, & Mike Sarraille

Episode Date: May 26, 2025

As we remember the lives of those lost on this Memorial Day, revisit some of Will's best conversations with four retired Navy SEALS reminding us of the values and virtues that come from a life of service.  First, in an excerpt from his appearance with Will last Thursday, Mike Sarraille, retired Navy SEAL and Host of FOX Nation's 'The Unsung Of Arlington,' shares the stories of a handful of American heroes you may not have heard. Will is then joined by retired Navy SEAL, Co-author of ‘Extreme Ownership’ and ‘The Dichotomy of Leadership,' & Host of the ‘Jocko Podcast,’ Jocko Willink to discuss how discipline is the path to freedom, to always take responsibility for your own actions and failures, and much more. Retired Navy SEALs, Bill Brown & Jason Redman, then share about their successful march with military special forces veterans on Washington, D.C. in support of then Secretary of Defense nominee Pete Hegseth and why it was so important to stand up for someone who stands up for the war fighters. Tell Will what you thought about this podcast by emailing [e-mail] Subscribe to The Will Cain Show on YouTube here: Watch The Will Cain Show! Follow Will on Twitter: @WillCain Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For a limited time at McDonald's, enjoy the tasty breakfast trio. Your choice of chicken or sausage McMuffin or McGrittles with a hash brown and a small iced coffee for $5.00 plus tax. Available until 11 a.m. at participating McDonald's restaurants. Price excludes flavored iced coffee and delivery. Happy Memorial Day. I hope you're having a good time hanging out with your family, relaxing, unplugging, having a little fun, but I hope we also take time to remember. Today, we have four Navy SEALs to help us remember the reason for Memorial Day.

It is the Will Cain Show streaming live normally at Fox News.com on the Fox News YouTube channel and the Fox News Facebook page, 12 o'clock Eastern time. Make sure you hit subscribe at Apple or on Spotify. Today, we're bringing you several conversations, some of the most impactful conversations we've had on this show. Conversations about leadership, responsibility, patriotism, what it takes to protect and preserve this country and what it means to celebrate Memorial Day. First up, my conversation with Mike Sorrelli, former recon Marine and former Navy SEAL, who has a new documentary up at Fox Nation, the unsung of Arlington. Over 400,000 servicemen are buried at

Arlington National Cemetery. While there's many famous gravesites and many famous names, Mike and Fox Nation are focusing on the unsung heroes on this Memorial Day. There are over 400,000 soldiers buried. Former military, our nation's heroes, buried at Arlington National Cemetery. But who are they? There's a new Fox Nation special. The Unsung of Arlington.

It's hosted by Mike Sorrelli Heath. is a force recon, scout sniper, Marine, a retired U.S. Navy SEAL, and he hosts the Unsung of Arlington on Fox Nation. He's with us here now. What's up, Mike? Will, what's going on? Good to see you. How'd you get roped into Fox Nation, Mike? How'd you get, I know how you would be interested in this story, but what made you want to tell the story of the unsung of Arlington? Well, you know, first off, humbled to be invited to be a small. part of this and to be part of the Fox family for this ultimately have got Gavin Hayden to blame but you're right the purpose behind this is easy the second you know Gavin and the team

told me about it you know the answer was I'm in whatever part I can play whether that's sleeping the floors of the the crew filming it or or hosting to tell these stories to tell the stories of sacrifice to keep their legacies alive that's what it's about that's awesome used to work and run Fox and Frenzies now, one of the executives in charge of Fox Nation. And I think this is fascinating, decided to focus in. And I want to focus in with you, as you've got a couple episodes here,

and they include profiles of people we've heard of, like Medgar Evers or John Glenn. But what I am interested in is how it fulfills the title, the unsung of our nation. There's 400,000, you know, lost heroes there in that cemetery. And so I want to see if you just share with us some stories of people that we have not heard of, who are unsung. In fact, why don't we talk a little bit about Chaplain Charles Pierce?

Chaplain Charles Pierce has definitely left a mark on the military. So, you know, a pioneer in his right, he basically founded the grave, you know, registration service, which allows families to grieve with closure. You know, he is the godfather of the dog tags. And having been a prior Marine, you know, I still have my dog tags from the Marine Corps. I didn't take the ones from the Navy. I kept those throughout my combat tours. But what Charles Pierce teaches us is that, you know,

even in the chaos of war, dignity matters. Closure matters. Bringing home, both our living and our dead matters. And personally, where this strikes me is, you know, I was part of a squadron that was, you know, a good amount of our guys were lost on a helicopter called extortion 17. Those remains were brought home. and some of the remains couldn't be identified.

There is a tombstone in Arlington, and on it, it says, here lie the men of extortion 17, all their remains buried together. And that's in thanks to Chaplain Charles Pierce. And at the end of the day, you know, he embodies Memorial Day, which we're here to celebrate,

we're here to remember. He remembers the faces, the stories, and the humanity behind each of the individuals who sacrifice their lives for this nation. Yeah, extortion 17, in one of the darkest days in the history of the Navy SEALs, the history of the U.S. Navy SEALs.

What did we do, Mike? I hope I don't push you beyond the history of the story that you tell, but when did this come along, like the dog tag? He's the father of the modern dog tag, and I can only imagine what it was like before that. I mean, I don't know, Civil War, when we existed in a pre-dog tag warfare, but bodies littering a battlefield,

some unrecognizable, people not knowing who they'd lost or where they lost them? No, you're actually correct. So it was a civil war, and if I'm correct in my military history, and I know you're a student in military history, I believe it's the cemetery at Vicksburg. There's 13,000 soldiers from what I can remember who have unmarked graves because we couldn't identify him. And so at some point, the military realized and tasked Chaplain Charles Pierce with coming up with this grave, you know, service system in order to identify those remains and start the

process, really where it took root, was in the Philippines, he was in the wars against the Filipino independence, and then eventually World War I, he came back into service to handle the remains in identification of soldiers during World War I, and it's come to stay. All right, episode one of the Unsung of Arlington is about a man named Philip Kearney. Tell us about Philip Kearney. You're going to, so this is what we refer to as a soldier's general. One, he is a one-armed general who is known just as being a larger-than-life character on the battlefield.

His nickname, because he served under Napoleon, was Carney the Magnificent. And, you know, as the story goes, this guy used to ride into battle one arm. So in the one hand, he had a sword, and he had the reins of the horse in his mouth. he you know he motivated and inspired the men he was well known and quite frankly one of the more senior generals for the north during the uh the civil war but what's interesting about carney is he is the godfather again another pioneer for the unit patches that the army wears today so any army soldier any air force uh airman owes credit and thanks to to carney for for developing that system. And that system is still used today for identification on the battlefield so that during

chaos we can identify where our troops are in contrast to the enemy. And phenomenal story and from everything I've read about Carney and everything I've learned from the historians at Arlington, he would be considered one of the great leaders even today within the military history. So he was a civil war major general for the north. But he fought. But he fought with Napoleon. He's an American? I didn't even think about Americans going over there to fight with Napoleon. So the military often does, you know, if you want to call them exchange programs, like we sent pre-World War II, we sent American officers and American enlisted men to go serve with the Chinese resistance when the Japanese were occupied in China. He was a similar program

during his day and age, during the Italian wars, went and served under Napoleon. He had two arms then within their cavalry to learn their tactics and their techniques, bring that back to the U.S. military at his time. Wow, fascinating. And then Jane Delano, is somebody you focus on in episode five, and this is on the nursing side of the military. Again, each of these individuals were pioneers, and you said it best. We all know Medgar Evers, and a lot of people recognize him as a social justice warrior.

he was a veteran as well and he should be recognized as both same with john glenn we see him as an astronaut while he was a combat season marine well before that 149 missions in world war two in korea but jane delano and having been wounded on the battlefield this one really resonated uh to to me she was the the godmother of the nurse corps that we we know today she mobilized 20,000 angels of which 300 perished in world war one and she brought together the Army Nurses Corps, the Red Cross, and A&A, and her impact has even felt in national disaster response to this day. So having been wounded and having a nurse stand by my side, hold my hand knowing that I had just lost a teammate and console me,

also provided me morphine, and that was much appreciated. You know, I had to reflect back, and she's to thanks. I owe her debt of gratitude for the system and the impact she had on modern military medicine. What's really cool about the idea behind this series is when you look at Arlington National Cemetery, or for that matter, if you've ever been to Normandy, to the American Cemetery, and you see all of those graves and their uniform, not unlike the uniform you wear when you're serving in the United States military, the power is in the unity, the power is in the sameness, the power is in the shot from afar,

and you see all those crosses, you see all those white markers in the ground, and you see the collective sacrifice, and that's powerful. But what gets a little lost, the price you pay in that broad scope is the narrow view of the actual human beings, the individuals that lie underneath those markers. And what's really cool is you guys are diving in to see who those individuals are, and they are unsung. Will, you could not have said that more beautifully. You know, regardless of rank, regardless of race, those tombstones are uniform,

either bearing crosses of, you know, crosses or stars of David, as Reagan said. It is a symbolic and almost hollow ground. That is a reminder to all of us. And at the end of the day, Memorial Day is not a celebration. It's a day of remembrance. And I think there's a disconnect with society. And we've come to underappreciate the true meaning of a Memorial Day. When we should be sitting in silence, yes, you can be surrounded by friends.

You can be at the beach. But, you know, we need to remember that these people demonstrated selfless valor and believed in something bigger than themselves to include us and the potential of what we can become. But they gave our, their tomorrow for our today. And I think in a way, and again, this is going to piss some people off. We've become too comfortable. And sacrifice is uncomfortable. And it's, you know, some feel shame and guilt to feel that discomfort of knowing somebody else sacrifice for them, but that's good.

Because that discomfort can turn into gratitude. And hopefully gratitude turns into action that each of us, given their sacrifice, need to live in their honor and make this a better place, this nation. collectively. And I appreciate the Unsung of Arlington. It's some of the great way for us to at least spend some time as we approach or on Memorial Day to remember those people like Mike points out to us. So make sure you check it out at Fox Nation. Mike, thanks for spending time with us here today. A Will, thanks for having me. You bet, man. All right, we'll see you around. All right, go ahead and check that out. The Unsung of Arlington hosted by Mike Sorrell. It's at Foxnation.com. When we come back, we revisit a conversation

with Jock O'Wilnick, former Navy SEAL, about how discipline equals freedom. From the Fox News Podcasts Network. Hey there, it's me, Kennedy. Make sure to check out my podcast. Kennedy saves the world. It is five days a week, every week. Download and listen at Fox Newspodcast.com

or wherever you listen to your favorite podcast. It is time to take the quiz. It's five questions in less than five minutes. We ask people on the streets of New York City to play along. Let's see how you do. Take the quiz. every day at thequiz.com. Then come back here to see how you did. Thank you for taking the quiz. Welcome back to The Will Kane Show and happy Memorial Day. Jocko Willink is a retired Navy

seal. He's a bestselling author, leadership expert. He's one of the most disciplined individuals you're ever going to meet. Today we revisit a conversation about what it means to take extreme ownership, not just in your personal life, but also for our nation. We talk about how discipline equals freedom and how to build the right habits and what real leadership looks like in an age of obsession with ego he's retired navy seal he's also the co-author of extreme ownership and also the other book the dichotomy of leadership he also hosts the jaco podcast um and he joins us here on the will can show jaco has like 10 other things that i could plug as well like jaco fuel um other businesses that he's taking extreme ownership in jaco uh you got to get up at 4 30 to get all that done

and that's what you did this morning. Yes, indeed. Got to make time. Jocko, have you, tell me, you know, one of the things that you write about and you say is relaxation is not a reward, but how do you relax? I guess doing Jiu-Jitsu.

You know, I train Jiu-Jitsu. I have a Jiu-Jitsu gym here in San Diego called Victory M-MMA, and training in Jiu-Jitsu is, look, relaxing might not be the best word for what Jiu-Jitsu is because you're engaged in grappling combat with another human being, but I do find it a good place for my mind to take a little break. At 4.30 when that alarm goes off, and I follow you, and I've seen you for years doing this.

What is it you do right away? Four 30, it's the gym? Yeah. Just, you know, brush the teeth and then go down, hit the gym. Always do something physical, some kind of physical exercise in the morning. I have to do that. Otherwise, the whole day falls. How much do you sleep? You know, I try and go to bed around 10 o'clock, but sometimes I stay up until 10.30, So somewhere, what's that, around six, six hours or so, you know, it's pretty, pretty good for me. It's pretty normal for me.

Are you just one of these guys kind of like you've never needed sleep like Donald Trump? Yeah, I wouldn't say I'm like Donald Trump because I've heard he sleeps, you know, three hours a night. I've done that before. You know, obviously I was in the military for a long time. So when you're in the military, there's going to be some nights you don't get much sleep. But, you know, and different people just, it's just biology. Different people need different amounts of sleep. I know a lot of people need seven, eight hours of sleep.

I'm good with, you know, five or six hours. No big deal. By the way, were you always that way? Because I've heard Jocko, and I know a few guys in the community. You and I've talked through the television screen a few times. In Hell Week, seal training, Bud's training, you know, of course, everything's hard. But, like, there's two things that I feel like everybody keeps coming back to. Cold and sleep deprived.

Were you, like, therefore, cut out for the sleep deprivation? the sleep didn't really bother me and you know I'm from New England and I grew up in Maine and Connecticut where it was cold and the cold was you know look it's cold I'm not going to sit here and try and say it wasn't cold I was cold I was shivering just like everybody else but yeah that the sleep and the cold really were not at that adversarial to me you know some guys that grew up in Florida where they grew up warm their whole life I think it was a little harder for them not that plenty of guys from Florida don't make it so yeah I'd say I was pretty accustomed to the cold, and the no sleep was definitely an advantage through my

whole career. Not needing a lot of sleep was an advantage. I picked the right career path for someone with that, with that weird skill of not needing a bunch of sleep. By the way, I think it was like two years ago during my summer break. I pre-recorded a ton of episodes here on the Wilcane show. And one of the things I focused on was America's elite warriors. And I spoke to seals and Delta and special forces and Marine Raiders. And this is what always I'm fascinated by Jocko is like, what is the commonality? And it's really actually very hard to pin down

because there's not a physical prototype. There's guys of every size. And I know in the end when you boil it all down and we dig, the commonality is just a resistance to ever saying no or to quitting. It's like that's the main thing. But you brought up, you're from the Northeast in Florida, guys. Is there any disproportionate geographic representation in the teams?

I would I don't know you know I have had guys from all like like you know I mentioned I happen to mention Florida but there's guys from Hawaii that grew up in you know in the tropical paradise of Hawaii they're in the teams no factor guys from Iowa

guys from Alaska guys from all over the place it really does just boil down to that individual human being and if they really want to be a frog man or not all right I asked you how you relax talk to me about this it's 2025. Look, man, I've made resolutions. I've actually got a different, my most success on New Year's resolutions was volume, Jocko. I threw like 20 at it two years ago

and I accomplished 50% of them. I was like, that's pretty good, actually. You know, life is a volume business. Life's not about bat in a thousand. It's about doing and failing and succeeding. And therefore, it's about, it's like being a volume shooter in basketball. Have you, like, I know you've done videos and you've done this on your podcast, I'm talking about commitment. Have you, is like, do you ever have, I'm sure January 1st means nothing to you when it comes to resolutions, but how do you handle like a commitment to a new resolution? Yeah, you know, we started something a few years ago.

It's actually at Jocco Fuel, which you mentioned. We started a little something in-house. People were kind of doing their New Year's resolution things. And honestly, the first couple years, I wasn't really paying attention to it. Because like you said, to me, January 1st is the same as January 5th is the same as November, whatever. It doesn't matter. It's another day. I'm going to get up and do what I do.

But we did this program and it really helped a lot of people inside the team and helped them out a lot. And then the next year, we're like, oh, let's see if anybody else wants to do this. Let's see if people that are, you know, customers, consumers, people that use the product want to do it. And we did it. And man, it was really amazing the kind of impact it had on people. We called the Deaf Reset. Discipline equals Freedom Reset. And there's eight daily habits you've got to follow, you know, for January, get up early workout,

prioritize an execute, drink water, clean food, no junk. food and take some time to remember the people that have sacrificed so you can so we can do what we get to do today and it's one of those things where we when i saw all these different people really making significant progress it it was impactful and so now we usually do a summer one and we do this one at the beginning of the year and honestly i think it's awesome you know people make videos and they tag you know the progress that they're making the progress that they made and it doesn't the cool thing is it doesn't end january first it's like a a good new year year's resolution shouldn't end, you know, January 31st. It should, it should keep going if it's

something that you can sustain. So, yeah, I think it's a positive thing. Well, in that program, I did 75 hard, Jocko, which is kind of, I don't know if you've ever heard of 75 hard, but it's a little similar to what you just described. Like there was a water requirement every day. But what you just, I think that the, the, and I don't know that I've heard you specifically talk about this, but I'm sure that you have. What that seems to do, what you described about your program is, is habit forming, right? So can you form habits through this minutia of what you do on a daily basis? And I don't know what the time frame it is required to create a habit. I've heard people say different timeframes. But that, you know, habit is very powerful. Yeah. And to me, habit means

you're going to do the thing without thinking about the thing. And where we run into our biggest problems is when we're, when we let our brain get involved in the decision making progress, or process, if we're going to work out, you know, if you put a donut in front of me and I just turn off my brain. My lizard brain says, yeah, eat that thing. Eat that donut. But I have to engage my brain and make sure that I'm doing the right things for the right reasons. And the other side of that corner is like when it comes to doing physical activity, you can find a way to talk yourself out of that by by debating with yourself and making excuses. Whereas if it's just a habit, it's just what you're going to do. You're going to get up and do the thing. Go make it happen. So

yeah, I think it is beneficial. habit like you said is is the lizard brain but and you've already mentioned it once and you've done videos again on this and you've been talking about it for years but it does i mean it's such a phrase and it does resonate so much discipline equals freedom so it's like in order to get to the habit stage before you even get there of your lizard brain taking over there's discipline that is required which is i think a conscious commitment to a certain set of actions um and i love how you talk about it the limitations of motivation and the power of discipline. Yeah, motivation is just another emotion. It's going to come and go depending on how you feel that day. Well, discipline is consistent. It's going to be

there. Whether you want it to be there or not, you get up and you be disciplined and do what you're supposed to do. And it's counterintuitive for people. I mean, discipline equals freedom. And I, it's counterintuitive, but the minute you hear it, you're like, yeah, I actually, I get that. And you can, you can feel it. if anyone who's ever, even if it's just moments and windows in your life where you've been dedicated to a purpose and you've been disciplined about pursuing it, you know how you've felt during that time, right? Yeah, I think when people hear that phrase, the instant reaction is, oh, that doesn't make any

sense. But as soon as they think about it for a minute, they say, oh, yeah, I remember how when I was in high school and I was very disciplined about preparing for tests, I got better grades on the test, and therefore I had more freedom, you know, to do what I wanted because my parents got off my back. And same thing with physical. You know, if you have physical discipline to go and work out like you're supposed to, you have more freedom to, you know, run down the street if you've got to chase your dog. It just discipline will give you freedom in all aspects of your life. And I think it sounds counterintuitive, but as soon as people really consider what it means, it makes sense,

and that's why they can latch on to it. Well, I think there's something else. And it may be in tension with another one of your lessons, which is relaxation is not a reward. But, Look, if I'm not disciplined, Jocko, and I'm not doing the things that I know deep down that I need to be doing, then my free time is burdened by guilt. And it's never truly enjoyed. I'm thinking, oh, man, I should have. I would have. I got to.

I mean, I just feel it. And I was just, maybe if somebody's watching and listening at home and they're like, I don't feel that way, Will, when I'm chilling, do you not? Like, are you fully present and enjoying it? Where when I'm disciplined and purpose driven and getting stuff done, when I do choose to turn off or relax, even though it's not supposed to be my reward, I can be fully present in that moment of relaxation. Yeah, well, I don't think there's anybody that would deny that when you do something,

whether it's working out, whether it's accomplishing a task that you were supposed to do at your house, whether it's getting a project done for work, everyone knows you feel better when you get done with that thing. And that's exactly what you're talking about. You know, if you stayed in bed on Sunday morning and didn't get up and work out, well, by Sunday afternoon, you know you don't feel as good as you would have had you done the right thing. So yeah, I agree with that. And it's hanging over you all day while you're chilling. You're like, I got to, I got to go do that, which, and then you'll make excuses. Then you

won't do it and the whole day feels full of guilt. Okay, I don't know if you've ever talked about this. So I love your history podcast that you do as well, Jocko. This discipline equals freedom. I think it's more than micro. I think it's macro too. So what I mean by that, when I say you dive in history, you may have touched this. I think the founding fathers actually required this when they thought about a free society. First of all, they thought about a free society where there were limitations on human choice and behavior based upon a Judeo-Christian limitation. Like, that's the discipline that they thought about. Like, we're going to be able to be free and we don't have laws limiting our behavior because we have ethics and morals and code

and religion that controls our behavior. Therefore, we don't need the government to do so. like we're talking about it what a single person how they achieve freedom but it requires discipline but i think there's something to the whole society as well if we're not disciplined as a society we can't be free yeah i've i've heard some story about the fact that when we put uh the statue of liberty on one coast we should have put the statue of discipline or restraint on the other coast because you do need that balance and and you're right i mean a country without laws is is is going to be chaos and you're not going to you're not going to end up with real freedom right you're not going to have real freedom if you've got to watch your back every move that you make and every

everyone's attacking each other and it's anarchy that's not going to be real freedom you're going to be a slave to the people around you to other people that are trying to get things for themselves so yeah you do need you you obviously you have to have laws you have rules you have to have structure and once you have that then you can achieve real freedom so yeah that's 100% accurate. Yeah. Yeah, but not just laws. I guess what I'm saying is also there's just private choice and private enterprise and private belief that cumulatively on a national scale culturally allows us to be free. So we're not just base instinct. Freedom means I do whatever I want. Yeah, you're free. We hope you choose to be disciplined. Yeah. Well, we do have the freedom to make

those choices. You can make all kinds of bad choices and we see that happen all the time. unfortunately to people they make bad choices in their lives or in in this case what you're talking about from a from a governmental perspective you can have governments that make bad choices and you end up with bad situations happening that is absolutely true let's take a quick break but return to this conversation with jaco willing here on the will cane show listen to the all new brett bear podcast featuring common ground in-depth talks with lawmakers from opposite sides of the aisle along with All your Brett Bear favorites, like his All-Star panel and much more. Available now at Fox News Podcasts.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Janice Dean. Join me every Sunday as I focus on stories of hope and people who are truly rays of sunshine in their community and across the world. Listen and follow now at Fox Newspodcast.com. Happy Memorial Day. Welcome back to the Will Kane Show. We're still revisiting a conversation we had with retired Navy Sealed. Let me take that moment then to ask you about this. So I'm curious about your view on American leadership. I was happy to see this, Jocco. You put out a video. You supported my friend, my former co-host, Pete Hegseth for Secretary of Defense. And by the way, also a mutual friend, Tulsi Gabbard. Talk to me about why that was important to you to put those videos out for Pete and Tulsi. Well, I think looking at what's been happening in America for the past, you know,

few years, it's really clear that we need some people that are not, that come from outside the system. And, and listen, I was in the military for 20 years. I spent time, I was the, what's called the Admiral's Aid. So I worked directly for the Admiral that was in charge of all the SEALs. And that meant I spent a decent amount of time going to the Pentagon, going to meetings and kind of, I don't claim to be, you know, have in-depth knowledge, but I sat through plenty of meetings in the Pentagon and budgeting meetings and understand the quadrenial review and kind of just seeing a little bit about how that machine works to know that it's a big, giant bureaucratic monster. And at a certain point, you've got to bring some fresh eyes to take a look at that thing and really

provide some corrective measures. And I think that Pete is a great candidate for that job. I think he's going to go in there. I think he's, you know, obviously he was in the military himself. And so he understands what it's like to be on the front lines, which to me is extraordinarily important to have the person that's in charge of the Department of Defense understand what it means to be sent forward into harm's way and know what that feels like and know what that truly means. And then I think the fact that he was a leader in the military. And when you're in the military, there's some stereotypical, there's some stereotypical ideas that people think military leadership is like, you know, I'm going to stand at the top because I'm in charge,

I'm going to bark orders, everyone's going to obey my orders. And that, does that happen in the military? Yes, it happens in the military. It happens in the civilian sector, too. I work with a bunch of companies in the civilian sector. You have those type of tyrannical leaders in the civilian sector, and you have them in the military. They're more, they're more stereotypically viewed to be in the military, but good military leadership does not look like. that good military leadership is a humble leader that listens to what people have to say that hears out other opinions that looks for not his idea but the best idea and and then moves forward and makes that happen and then when they make a mistake they say oh you know what we're moving

in the wrong direction that's on me we're going to switch we're going to change up and you know I haven't spent a lot of time with Pete but I've spent enough time with him to recognize that he's a guy that's going to listen he's a guy that's going to when he makes a mistake he's going to own that and he's going to get it fixed. So I think having that fresh set of eyes and that new blood is going to be good. I think there's going to be people, well, never mind, I think. There are people that are horrified of that. There are people that are horrified of that new blood coming in with a fresh look saying,

hey, wait a second. You know, literally the guys from office space coming in and say, hold on a second. What exactly do you do here? Because you go to the Pentagon, there's a lot of people that they're, they're filling a seat but I don't know what they're what they're actually executing on so I think that just just that right there what I said bringing a fresh set of eyes someone that has combat experience and is going to go in there with the sole focus of preparing the United States military to fight and win wars that's that's what the military is supposed to do you know the

fight and win wars and that's what I find fascinating about your perspective I would assume jocko that doesn't just come from 20 years in the military since then you've been advising companies about corporate bureaucracy and leadership and so you've seen this play out in private enterprise not just the military so this humility and by the way that's one of your lessons discipline is freedom stay humble and and i know pete well and the way you describe him is is 100% true he is uh it sounds cliche to say man of the people he wants to know the warfighter the trigger puller, which he was one. He wants to consider them. And he doesn't want to do that first style of leadership you talked about, which again, you've seen in every walk of life, I assume.

Yeah, absolutely. You see tyrannical leaders, people that, you know, they think that if they stand and embark orders it, and look, the sad thing about it is it works. You know, if I'm in charge of you will, if you're, if I'm your boss and I yell at you and tell you to do something, it kind of works because what are you going to do? You got a job. You want to keep your paycheck. And so you do what I told. You do what I yelled at you to do. And although it works, that reinforces my behavior. I don't do more. I think, yeah, I think that's the way to lead. Well, now, meanwhile, you're putting in a resume because you want to leave. Or if you're in the military, you want to get out of the military. And yet, if you have a person that's a humble leader that says, hey, Will, you know,

we got this project. How do you think we should execute this thing? And all of a sudden, you go, hey, hey, Jockel, here's what I think. And by the way, Will's been down there on the front lines interacting with the people we've got to interact with. I'm up here in the ivory tower. you're going to know better you're going to have a better answer so yeah it's great to hear that and again that's the that's the sort of vibe that I got from Pete when I've interacted with him before and and actually quite frankly that's the that's the reports I've got from him from people that have worked with him is that he's a humble guy that he look he's he's a confident guy well good right I don't want somebody that lacks confidence so he's a confident guy but he's not overconf confident

he's not arrogant and I think he's going to go in there and have the capability of making some real changes you know I I think it's a very large organization to to make the kind of changes that it needs but he's at least going to get a start on it and you never know four years in that seat he might be able to make some real changes that we need well what I love about that conversation we just had is actually inadvertently touched on like one of your three big principles you focus on which is humility because you did it there you talked about that's not the same thing as lacking confidence but it is sort of separating your ego and i do know that about pete as well not an ego guy at all separating your ego from from even your humility and your confidence like that's a separate thing

your ego set that thing aside and then confidence in humility are or more action oriented as opposed to identity oriented yeah look we've done terrible things as a country because of ego. You know, we've followed, pursued actions that we've clearly look around and go, hey, this doesn't seem like it's working out too well. Maybe we should stop. But you know what? This was my plan. We're going to keep doing it. And instead of someone saying, hey, you know what, this isn't going really. The second and third order effects don't really look as good as I thought they were going to look. Maybe we should stop what we're doing. And I mean, even look at the Vietnam War, you know, you read reports now that LBJ and McNamara, they thought they, they, they, they, they,

figured that we could not really achieve victory in Vietnam, about halfway through that war. And they kept fighting and we lost another 25,000 Americans in a feudal war that they admitted that they didn't think we could win. So what is that? That's pure ego. All right. So I have a few minutes left with you here. And I don't want to like, I did. I buried the lead. But, you know, I think of all the things that you. You've talked about your three kind of big tenets, which is stay humble. Discipline equals freedom. I actually think the hardest one, maybe not to acknowledge for human beings, but to actually

execute for human beings. And that's saying something because I think discipline is really hard for people to execute. But extreme ownership is even harder. And I saw you say a thing about, you know, like people want to focus on young generations. Dude, this is not generational. Like taking ownership of your mistakes, your failures, taking ownership of your entire life is just, it is a difficult thing inside of human nature. Yeah, it is.

And the example that I always try to paint for people so that they recognize how intrinsic it is to blame other people and blame circumstances is, you know, I got four kids and, you know, I'd walk into the kitchen and the milk is spilled on the floor. And I look at my son, you know, it's five-year-old, six-year-old son, and say, what happened? And he says, the milk spilled, right? The milk, it wasn't him to smoke. The milk, it was the milk that spilled. And that's an instinct that we have.

And it is so hard to overcome that instinct. It's very difficult to look at your team, look at your, look at your family and say, hey, look, I made a mistake here. This is what I'm going to do to fix it. This is on me. And when you start taking ownership, it actually gives you, it actually, it actually gives you the power to make changes and prevent things from happening again. yeah as opposed to hey this isn't my fault you know this is will's fault the reason we failed on

this mission was because will didn't do his job well that means it's not out of my hands i can't control it anymore instead of saying hey look here's the mistakes that i made i didn't give will the clear guidance that he needed i didn't give him the support that he needed that's why we failed next time i'm going to make sure i give him clear guidance next time i'm going to make sure i give him the support that he needs so that way we won't fail again okay well now i can actually do that what's the extreme part well the extreme is that Jacko. Yeah. The extreme is that you try and do that with every single aspect of your life and your job and your mission. Now, there's a caveat. The caveat is, look, horrible things can happen to people

that they have no control over. You know, your kid can get cancer. You can get teaboned on, you know, on a road by a drunk driver. You're doing everything perfectly right. There are going to be things that happen in your life that you have no control over. And I get asked, you know, how do you take ownership of those things? And the answer is, is quite, quite frankly, it's you take ownership of how you respond. You know, how are you going to respond to that terrible thing that unfolded? You know, your kid got sick. Okay, how are you going to respond to that? What are you going to do? How are you going to move forward? How are you going to support them? Oh, you've gotten a car accident? Okay, how are you going to recover? What are you going to do? Where are you going to

move from here? How are you going to take that next step forward? So, but, but we have the ability we have we can take ownership of much much more in life than people usually think and it goes back to that instinct to point your finger at someone else it's so much easier just to point your finger at someone else and say up wasn't me it was will's fault it was will's fault not mine and as soon as i do that i feel i feel good for you know a split second my ego gets my ego gets the relief of not having to take the blame for anything but as soon as i say that I just became a victim and I lose control. So taking extreme ownership of your life in every aspect that you possibly can

is going to give you a better life in all aspects. So one last question, Jocko, it's a horrible question. I can't believe I'm going to do this, but I have to follow my curiosity. You've got a busy day. I've got two Navy SEALs on deck waiting to come on. So we all recognize our time pressure here. So forgive me when I say, I'm sitting there listening to you talk about extreme ownership.

And I'm just curious. You're a deep thinker. I know. I've watched enough of you historically, philosophically. You're a psychologist, basically, at this point in your career. Is, do you believe in fate? Not really. Not really.

Well, let me rephrase that. I believe that there's a blueprint out there, but you're the carpenter. And even though you're looking at the blueprint and you can follow. that blueprint and if you don't make any changes that blueprint is what's going to happen but if you want to you can start making changes to that plan you can start putting two by fours in different places and you can really modify the way that building is going to is going to come out so i think there is a you know there's a blueprint there for your life and if it's good and you like it and you can move forward that's great but if there's some some things that you don't like about your

fate you need to step up take ownership and get those things changed I struggle with that back and forth. Everything in me says I don't believe in fate because I want the control that requires ownership of my own life. But I go back and forth on that sometimes. And so I think about that. I'm sorry, I put you that deep philosophical question very end. So what I'll say is this instead. We have a mutual friend.

He was my swim buddy, Shane McKenzie. I think you know Shane. Yeah, I went through Buzz with him. Yeah, well, he needs to go back to Buzz to keep up with me and swimming, to be honest. honest. I couldn't wait on Shane. I had to go in the New York City Navy SEAL swim, but he's a, he's a badass. And I hope I can see you this summer, Jocko. New York City Navy SEAL swim. Anyway, we're going to get you. Okay, I hope so. It depends what the summer looks like, but, you know, I'll try and find out when it is. Somewhere early August. I hope so, man. I really appreciate the time

you gave us today. Again, pick up the book. Extreme ownership. The other one is the dichotomy of leadership. Check out the Jocko podcast. Get yourself from Jocko Fuel. Jocko, thank you so much. Right on, man. Appreciate it. Good talking to you. Coming up, two retired Navy SEALs, Bill Brown and Jason Redmond, marched on Washington to support

Secretary of Defense, Pete Hegg said. We revisit that conversation on the Will Cain Show. Fox News Audio presents Unsolved with James Patterson. Every crime tells the story, but some stories are left unfinished. Somebody knows. Real cases.

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Welcome back to the Will Kane Show. Bill Brown and Jason Redmond, two retired Navy SEals led a group of hundreds of veterans to Washington, D.C. this past spring to show, with flags and hands and service on their sleeves, support for Secretary of Defense Pete Heggsett, and their message was clear. It's time for real leadership at the Pentagon. Joining us now, my friend, former Navy SEAL, Bill Brown, veteran, Patriots First Support, First Amendment support of Secretary of Defense nominee Pete Heggseth. Bill is organizing what's about to go down in Washington, D.C. What are you doing, Bill?

You're standing? Are you sitting? What are we got going here? I can't tell. Are you standing? I'm sitting. Maybe not the best angle here. Okay. It's sitting.

It's a power shot from below. It has you towering over me. Did you hear that, Bill? I might have just got Jock to join the New York City Navy Seals swim this summer. Maybe. It was a soft commitment from Jocco. All right. Woo.

That would be awesome. We need to get him in the Hudson. I said that we'd be joined by two Navy Seals. We might be joined by Jason Redmond and Kaj Larson as well coming up here. They'll be a part of what they're a part of the New York City Navy SEAL swim every summer. I swim with all three of these guys. And they're going to be a part of what's going to go down in D.C. next week. So tell us, Bill, what is at least, you know, a portion of the Navy SEAL community planning on doing next week in Washington, D.C.?

You know, Pete has gone out of his way to help the SEAL community. For years, the legacy media was giving us negative media out there, painting a picture that wasn't true about us. And every year, with your help and Pete, we were able to send a real positive, patriotic message of unity for our entire nation to see seals coming across the country to swim across one of the most dirtiest and dangerous rivers in the nation to send a positive patriotic message.

We've raised millions of dollars to help other SEALs, gold stars and their families and other veterans. And, you know, we totally support the warfighter class in this nation to support speed. We've had serious concerns with the Pentagon. There's no greater travesty than they withdraw in Afghanistan where they gave trillions of dollars of military equipment to our enemies. You could look at they failed to speak up and say, hey, maybe we shouldn't let this spy balloon overtly and gather intelligence over our sensitive military installations.

Or guess what? Maybe it's a huge national security concern with all the terrorist entities and foreign intelligence agencies out there to have an open border with a sophisticated technology and portable weapon systems that could cause mass horror in our country. And the Pentagon was asleep at the wheel. You know, real leadership is having the courage to stand up and say things that are hard. And Pete was the first person and the loudest person to say, hey, something's wrong with the Pentagon here. And it doesn't take a genius to realize he failed seven audits.

You can't, even this year, unaccountable over $824 million. dollars like there's huge issues in the pentagon corruption waste abuse you have individuals that they either were silent or been in need to the woke audio that that put us all at risk and so what we're doing is we're going to get together and we want our nations the leaders in our nation our senators our congressmen we want them to know where the warfighters stand and that's what we're going to do. This is kind of historic. We believe it's so important now. There's never been a greater threat assessment out there at all. And with so many risks out there, we need our military to get refocused as soon as possible. So what we're doing is we're getting

together. We're going to, number one goal is to be in that hearing as many veterans as we can get in that hearing to support Pete to let the senators objectively know like this is where we're at we stand by Pete these are your nation's war fighters listen to us because we care about our country and then we're also going to march uh uh and meet us with american flags seals only march with american flags uh we don't wear mask we're proud of who we are we want everybody know what we're about and what we represent. Meet us at the Vietnam War Memorial at 9 a.m. And come help us support Pete. All right. Let's bring in someone else who's going to be joining you that day, Bill. Jason Redmond is a retired Navy SEAL as well. You know, Jason, I know you just heard what Bill was saying.

It's pretty, Bill used a word, I think it's important, historic. I can't speak for every defense secretary nominee. But here's what I know. Bill, yourself, Jason, you guys helped drive a petition that last I looked was approaching 3,000 names in support of Pete Heggseth. Scott Mann, retired Special Forces Green Beret, put one for the Green Beret community together. I know that one's around 400 signatories. Stu Scheller, the guy who sounded the alarm about Afghanistan took to Capitol Hill to meet with Senators about Pete Heggseth.

And I don't know what the number is, Jason, but I think it's over 100. to guys who fought directly with Pete have also signed an endorsement of Pete Hegseth as defense secretary. So the point is, I don't know, again, I don't know if the historical context, but it seems to Bill's word, historic, that you're hearing from so many warfighters in support of Pete. Yeah, I've talked about this last night and Will, good to see you again. I talked about this last night on another podcast. I think the reason you're having so many of us that are coming out, one, you have this, you have the old regime.

And I think the political system in America is somewhat broken, in my opinion. Now, Trump being elected, I think, is proof that it does still work. But we've got this division. We're so divided on both sides with different narratives and ideologies. And I think that's pervaded into the fabric of our bureaucracy, which is seen now at the highest levels of DOD. The majority of our Secretary of Defense have defenses have either been former generals and senior leaders in the military, or they have been individuals that have been heavily trenched in the leadership of the military industrial complex. The problem with that,

they bring in political biases, they bring in relationships, they bring in these things that influence their decision making. Now we throw in a lot of the woke ideology that was happening over the four years. I think our Department of Defense is off track. Don't get me wrong, man, 95% of our military is amazing. We are one of the greatest and best, most patriotic fighting forces on the planet. But we're off course. The military should be focused on defending the homeland. It should be focused on enabling peace through strength, which means we need advanced technology.

We need to be focusing on our next generation war fighters. We need to be focusing on AI, cybersecurity, all these different things. the threats we're facing. And right now, that doesn't look like what DOD was doing. It looks like they were more focused on, hey, we need more DEI briefs. We need more things like this instead of focuses on how do we bring in the best warfighters to make the most lethal, effective military in the world. And then, God forbid, we have to fight a war. We're ready to do it. Pete is a reset. There are people that don't want him because he's not a part of the old guard. He's not going to bow to the old political connections. He's not going to bow to the military industrial complex

that so many of these guys were tied to. He is going to bring this military back to what it is designed to do, protect America, project peace through strength, and God forbid, we have to get in a war. We're ready to do it. Well, that's very eloquently and I think comprehensively put, Jason, you must have practiced it on another podcast. I'll have you practice it more, and you can also reiterated on television. We'll get that on the biggest broadcast mechanisms we can. Because it is, it is, it is extremely compelling. Bill, what do you think we should expect next week?

What's your turnout going to be? What's it going to look like as you guys go to D.C.? It's going to, it's going to be a very big turnout. So there's a couple things happening. One is Jillian Anderson had a great idea. And her idea was, hey, let's organize a press conference just with work. and any elected officials, any senators, any congressmen and women who want to come and publicly support Pete, any military leaders, let's come on and do that. So on Monday at noon, at the

courtyard, Foggy Bottoms Hotel and the Lincoln conference room, we're going to have a big conference room. And I can't tell you how many emails I've received from people who serve with Pete that are coming. They're coming from all across the country because they love Pete. They know Pete's the right guy for position. They serve with them. They're going to be there. They're going to come speak. You're going to have a bunch of guys you've served with Pete come and speak for him at the press conference. You're going to have plenty of military leaders there. And it's an open invite to any senators or congressmen that want to publicly come out and support Pete because we want to set the chessboard up for victory.

We want a nurse to move forward with Pete. We want it to be objectively clear where all the warfighters, what the warfighter class in this nation is. We're upset with the current leadership in the Pentagon. It's gone astray. It's time to get our ship steered in the right direction. Let's get the right skipper in there, and that's Pete. So then the next step is at 4 a.m. in the morning, a bunch of vets are going to line up right outside the Senate.

hearing built at the confirmation building and we're going to stack the place four vets and so we're going to have a two-prong attack we're going to first prong highest priority is get as many vets as we can in a confirmation hearing and then two all the other vets we're going to march we're going to hold them more high ground we're not going to let anybody discredit our service or discredit our message we're going to hold american flags no drama we're not looking for any We just want to be taken accounted for. We're going to stop at the memorial, say a few words, and just be there. And we're going to be there.

So when Pete is confirmed, that's the next Secretary of Defense, he can come out and talk to his supporters. We support Pete. Our country needs Pete. We need real leadership. And that's what Pete is. He's a real leader. He has the courage to say the hard things that everybody knows true. So you guys, the three of us know each other, and you guys know my relationship with Pete,

and I'm open about my lack of objectivity on it, but I think my bias is well-founded. It's grounded in life, experience, and knowledge. You know, I just had Jocko on, and you guys have sung the praises of Pete, as have I. Let me do one thing. And I'm going to ask this of you, Jason. I think Jock, he supports Pete, and he talked about why. He also acknowledged one of the criticisms of Pete, not. not the personal attacks and all that mudslinging.

But, hey, has he ever managed something that big? Jason, you brought up, like, the guys who've run the Defense Department come from either, you know, four-star generals or the military industrial complex, you know, McNamara outsiders, but inside the complex. Is there any concern of Pete's management experience up to this point? I mean, on one hand, people say it's a plus. like he's the the he he he tapped out at major right that's a plus because it puts him more in touch with the warfighter class with the soldiers on the ground class is there any concern at all

of you're managing a behemoth well let's take the example of the left's favorite icon Barack Obama uh Barack Obama didn't have a lot of experience he was a local organizer who then moved into Congress and then obviously up into the office of the presidency um I would say this, is it a concern? I think I agree. It's something that I had looked at also. But once again, I go back to the reset. I think we need to get things back on course.

I think we need to stop bringing in the same people, you know, or the same lane of people we have in the past. You know, senior military leaders are flag officers that have been entrenched in the military bureaucracy or members of the military industrial complex. I think Pete is smart enough. I worked with Pete on Concern Veterans for America. I was there for over two years speaking on stages with Pete. I put out a video about this. Everybody wanted to attack Pete and say pizza drunk, pizza womanizer. I did not see it.

I stayed at the same hotels. I spoke on the same stages with Pete. I think Pete is smart enough that he reaches out and he leans on the people that are smarter than him and people who understand how it works. And that is exactly what Pete's going to have to do in the Department of Defense. I don't see Pete coming into the Pentagon and saying, I'm going to run this place. I am the emperor and you guys are all going to follow me.

I think Pete's going to come in and he's going to look for the right people. Now, people who have stood for the things that are not aligned with what is best for our military, supporting those three things I talked about, defending the homeland, peace through strength and fighting our nation's wars with letality, people who weren't doing that and pushing their own agenda, I see Pete removing them. Those who were focused on trying to navigate this system and continue to build and, you know, a strong military and support their people in the mission, I see Pete leaning on them and saying, okay, guys, I've never done this before, but guess what? I'm smart enough to lean on

you to make sure we have a vibrant, strong, successful American Department of Defense. Right. Again, really well put. Bill, we're friends. I hope you don't mind me saying this. So, you know, I've been doing what I do for a long time. I'm very used to criticism, Bill. Very used to it uh i'm used to hatred right uh we both fought different wars although bill you've been fighting this war that i have fought for a long time for a little bit now so putting yourself out there letting know what you believe and getting the blowback so we've talked you and i about some some resistance that but you know here's my thought bill and i want you tell me you think i'm wrong because this is a new war for you to fight right i actually don't get the sense it's that big bill

okay there's some who's going to push back i'm talking about within the war fight community. But from my perception of what you've heard, Bill, it's in the minority. And I really want you to shed some, like, I feel like, again, I want to be very humble about my exposure to all of you guys and how much I know you and how much I'm plugged into your communities, not just yours, but special forces in other communities as well. Bill, I feel like it's overwhelming from the petitions to what you're going to do in D.C. to the anecdotal conversations and relationships I have, while there might be a little pushback, I don't get the since it's a lot. I think it's overwhelming

support from warfighters. It is overwhelming support, but I never underestimate the curveball in a ninth inning. And so what we need to do, the fact that the, the, when you the threat assessment on a global scale now, there's just so

many different angles. And you have China, you know, they're tapping into the U.S. department. They're tapping into telephone. companies, you know, they're flexing across the board. They're flexing in the Panama Canal. We need our military leadership. There hasn't been accountability in our military leadership. And that's one of the things you can have. There's a couple of things you need in war to be successful, to be victorious. You need a tactical advantage and you need discipline.

And discipline does not come without accountability. And that's one of the greatest flaws in our and our current leadership is there hasn't been accountability. And so that's what, that's what, why are we advocating so hard? Because we've been downrange, because we realize how much as, as, how much has gone astray, how great the risk is, and how it's important to get the right person in charge there. And that's what's happened, you know, you, there's a lot of intellectuals in the Pentagon. They failed to speak up and say, hey, maybe we should. shouldn't give up these airports first in Afghanistan. Or they failed to speak up and say,

hey, you know what? Maybe we should, we should speak up against this woke bomb and say, hey, having these open borders is a serious national security threat to us. And I'm not talking about isolated incidents like in New York where they didn't properly vet somebody and they get somebody gets burned alive. I mean, we can have horror on a grand scale, like 9-11 scale, with the type of sophisticated portable weapons systems that are available out there. And if you have a wide open border, it could be disastrous for a nation. There's not one intelligence agency out there that can say that anything I'm saying here is wrong. They failed to speak up.

That's a huge concern for all of us. That's why, you know, that's one of the reasons why we're advocating so hard. And that's why we're not going to get off the gas pedal because it's too important for, for, for, us not to be successful here. Well, you know what I think you just highlight there? Like, intellect is not a rare commodity, actually. Wisdom's a rare commodity. That's different than intellect.

But you know what's extremely rare is courage. You guys know what courage is, obviously. And I think you're also putting yourself out there in a new realm of courage, you know, in standing up when you're asking that of other people in leadership positions. I won't be able to be there next week. That was confirmed for me yesterday. I wish I could be with you guys in D.C. We're going to make sure we cover it because I do think it is historic.

And I know that I'll soon see both of you on television. And we want to make sure we get as much exposure of what you guys are doing next week as absolutely possible. I'm proud to know both of you guys. I don't know when I'll see you next, but I'll look forward to it. Thank you guys both. Thank you. Will, it's good to see you, brother. Thank you.

All right. Take care, fellas. I'll see you soon. That's Jason Redmond and Bill Brown, retired Navy SEALs. There you go. I hope you enjoyed this Memorial Day episode of the Will Kane Show. I hope you take time to remember. We'll see you again next time on the Will Kane Show. Listen to ad-free with a Fox News podcast plus subscription on Apple Podcast,

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