Will Cain Country - Will Texas Defy The U.S. Supreme Court?

Episode Date: January 23, 2024

Story #1: How many people have to die for someone to do something about the southern border? Story #2: Inside the mindset of the liberal elite: A conversation with journalist Michael Shellenberger. Story #3: What is it like to hang out with Dwayne 'The Rock' Johnson?   Tell Will what you thought about this podcast by emailing [e-mail]   Follow Will on Twitter: @WillCain Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For a limited time at McDonald's, enjoy the tasty breakfast trio. Your choice of chicken or sausage McMuffin or McGrittles with a hash brown and a small iced coffee for $5.00 plus tax. Available until 11 a.m. at participating McDonald's restaurants. Price excludes flavored iced coffee and delivery. One. How many people have to die? I literally die for someone, the state of Texas, the Supreme Court of the United States. The federal government do something about the border. Two, the mindset of the liberal elite.

A conversation with journalist Michael Schellenberger. And three, what's it like to hang with the rock? Plus, what's your line? What won't you eat? You may be surprised by that answer from the world. It is the Will Cain Show streaming live on YouTube, Fox News page on YouTube, and live at Fox News.com, and Fox News Facebook. Always on demand on YouTube at the Will Cain Show or wherever you get your audio entertainment

at Apple, Spotify, or at Fox News podcasts. It's humbling physically to stand next to. the rock. It'll make you question the depth of your masculinity, certainly when it comes to size and also when it comes to age. I know he pays attention to his diet, but whatever's going on with Dwayne Johnson is working. He's stacked and he's youthful and I'm younger and clearly less healthy. It's pretty humbling to be in the presence of the rock. And by the way, it's also something to be in the presence of that level of celebrity. There's a lot of us walking around as D-List's celebrities. Snap Famous as Kevin Hart once told Stephen A. Smith, you're that

you're that guy. Hold on. Hold on. You're that. I know you versus someone who walks into a room and every head turns and the crowd gathers for a picture. I probably encountered off the top of my head, that level of celebrity three times. It would be Donald Trump. It would be Sylvester Stallone. And it would be the rock. But even with that level of celebrity, he's incredibly approachable. He's a dude. He's a good dude. And we spend some time together talking about Maui, his relief efforts, my relief efforts, our relief efforts in West Maui. We talked about potentially running for president. And we talked about the effect of an audience in UFC or WWE by the presence of Donald Trump. On your screen right now, if you're watching us on

YouTube or Facebook or at foxnews.com, is a picture of me and the rock. If you're listening to us in podcast format, it's just the two of us standing side by side. But as an illustration of the forced humility. As an illustration of the perhaps difference in masculinity, you can see in this picture that I have broken one of the cardinal rules of Jesse Waters. One of the things that Jesse Waters believes when it comes to a man, and he has many beliefs about what it is to be a man, he thinks, does Waters, that men shouldn't have best friends, among other things. Men shouldn't lean in a photo. You should always be upright. And if you look at the photo on your screen. Again, if you're listening to the Will Kane show, one of us is leaning, and it's not

the rock. If you drew a line through the meridian of our bodies, mine is the one that is diagonal. Sorry, it's the rock. Coming up a little bit later in the show, we'll talk a little more about that interview. Plus, I'm going to show you a pretty surprising graph that shows world meat consumption and while you might in your mind think chicken beef and pork the world out there is consuming some pretty wild animals both in the sea and on land and it leaves me wondering who what country who's eating cat we here on the will cane show will draw our line where will you not participate where will you not partake where will you say no thank you Don't pass me the snail.

That's coming up and just a little bit here on the Will Cain Show. But first, story number one, when will someone do something? How many people have to literally die before somebody does something about our border? Will it be the state of Texas? Will it be the Supreme Court of the United States? Will it be the United States federal government? that somebody has to do something about the southern border. Otherwise, we have to ask how many people have to die.

The star of Pond Stars, Rick Harrison, recently lost his son Adam. And he's told the New York Post that his son Adam died from a fentanyl overdose. My suspicion is, would we have a longer conversation with Rick Harrison? The more appropriate word would not be overdose, but it would be poisoning by fentanyl. Harrison told the New York Post, yes, I can confirm Adam died from a fentanyl overdose. The fentanyl crisis in this country must be taken more seriously. It seems it is just flowing over the borders and nothing is being done about it. We must do better.

Harrison went on to excursiate politicians who ignore the crisis of our southern border. At this point, the fentanyl problem, the synthetic opioid that has made its way into almost a roulette wheel of black market drugs, from painkillers to Xanax to cannabis gummies, has touched everybody in America. I'd be hard-pressed. I know that I could easily come up with names of people I know. who have died from fentanyl. I imagine you have as well. You just don't have to reach very far. A family member, a cousin, a friend, somebody you went to high school with, a coworker who's died from fentanyl. When I was growing up, understanding the mistakes that I made that we all made, one of my biggest fears when I was having kids was drinking and driving. I was terrified of that moment when my kids would be old enough. And I just arrived at that moment by

the way, my oldest son is now 16, just turned 16. And I once thought it would be the scariest thing in life. The minute I turn over those keys, and the minute I have to entrust him to be wise and make smart decisions, because quite honestly, I know how many of us were not wise. I know how many of us have made that mistake. And it was the biggest fear out there. I lost friends, as I'm sure you have, to drinking and driving. And I just was terrified that one day that would be the story that I would have to stay up at night thinking could happen to my son. It's not my biggest fear. The game has changed.

Uber, Lyft. There are many other ways kids can make smart decisions. Of course, it hasn't retired the threat of drinking and driving, but it's been supplanted by the fear that one mistake, one little mistake, taking the wrong black market handed out a party painkiller, one pill. As it turns out, as everybody does these days, from taking your vitamins to your melatonin, to those who use weed, eating a gummy, any of it can and is often and is a roulette wheel of random chance poisoned with fentanyl. As many of you know, I'm a big

fan of the Texas Longhorns. A few years back, the quarterback of the Texas Longhorns was a guy, a very impressive guy, who's, I believe, still a backup quarterback for the Indianapolis Colts named Sam Ellinger. Sam has an interesting upbringing. He lost his dad at a very young age. I lost my dad, not as young of an age as Sam, but I lost my dad in my 20s. Sam lost his dad when he was just a young kid. His dad had a heart attack when he was swimming. the escape from Alcatraz race. And living in that household, then, without a dad, you think, no way this tragedy strike twice. But when Sam was, I believe, just in his first or second year in the NFL, his brother, Jake, who also walk on, played for the Texas Longhorns, suddenly died, poisoned, fentanyl.

This time, I believe, Jake had taken a black market Xanax. He wasn't out there looking to get high. He wasn't looking to seek out the synthetic effects of heroin. He wasn't a drug user hoping to recreationally have a good time. He was taking a Xanax. He wasn't seeking fentanyl. But he was poisoned by fentanyl. What it's worth, the Ellinger's, both Sam and his mother have made it one of their causes to address this crisis in America.

as I'm sure will now be the case with Pond Starr's Rick Harrison. It's interesting when it comes to the southern border. A weird phenomenon has taken place over the past month. Of course, you know at this point that the numbers at our southern border have spiraled out of control, the number of encounters and the number of Godaways. The number of illegal entries look like a hockey stick graph. They would make Al Gore's temperature predictions, the thermostat on the world, look quaint. It has spiked over the last three years. But since Christmas, those numbers have

basically been dropped by two-thirds. The numbers of encounters at the border has dropped from something like roughly 15,000 to 5,000 in the same time frame. What's going on? Well, most people are looking at a couple of different correlations, a couple of different events. One, we have approached an election year. Two, there was a meeting in Mexico City over Christmas between the Biden administration and Mexican politicians. And three, suddenly, Mexico is cleaning up migrant camps along the southern border, stopping the flow of the train, the beast that comes up from Central America, and pushing the illegal immigration flow into southern Mexico. Now, whatever is happening, the biggest factor there, I think that we have to consider.

is that it's an election year. And that, I think, is a tacit admission by Joe Biden that the southern border is a problem. In fact, he said so last week when pressed by a Fox News reporter. He said yes, and it has been a problem for 10 years. He tried to lay that problem at the feet of Republicans who won't seek some kind of comprehensive immigration reform, whatever that means in the current iteration of the Democrat Party,

a pathway to citizenship that holds hot. hostage the security of our southern border. But somebody has to do something, and it can't just be for an election year, because people are literally dying. The fentanyl problem is only one part of the problem for our southern border. Whether or not people like to admit this, the United States of America is a nation state with an identifiable culture. It has been a culture that has led to this country being the greatest experiment in society on the face of humanity. in the history of humanity. It has been built successfully by the Protestant work ethic, the embrace of capitalism, and

some genius founding documents that preserved certain rights from the will of the majority. That's why we always need to remind we're not a democracy, we're a constitutional republic. And for my money, you can't come up with more genius documents than the founding documents of the United States of America. But in the culture of that nation state, there is a recognition that we have to preserve all of those same ingredients for not just our future success, but the future existence of the United States of America. The project has never been one of open borders. The project has never been one of mass illegal immigration. The effects on our culture and the existence of a nation state are literally existential.

They can end the United States of America. On top of that, the southern border represents a threat to our national security. When I ask how many people have to die, I'm speaking primarily now in this moment about fentanyl. But have you noticed the number of people that are coming through that southern border who are on the terrorist watch list? Coming from countries that are high suspicion of harboring terrorism, ideology or strategically? It feels like a ticking time bomb before someone makes their way or already. has into our country who is looking specifically with the intent to do ill, to do evil, to cause harm, to take lives, to commit terrorism.

One day we will look back. Sadly, this is not a prediction I relish, but one day we will look back on this moment and go, how did this happen? And we will point to the U.S. border. And then, of course, is the fentanyl crisis. I think there's an interesting conversation. I had one recently with Fox News as Kennedy about this. Can you control it?

Can you control fentany? Can you control any elicit product that has, for some reason, some demand? You know, this is one of the arguments that conservatives point to when it comes to gun control. Wow, you've done such a good job with drugs. How are you going to control guns? It's a valid point. You can't control every choice of vice, every choice of freedom. You're not going to be able to, in a world of 3D printing and black markets,

you're never going to be able to control guns. By the way, that's a good thing in my estimation. An armed populace is a good populace. An armed America is a good America. That same rationale probably needs to be considered when we talk about illicit drugs. Can you really control it? We haven't yet. So can we control the problem of fentanyl?

My answer to that is that we have to try. This isn't simply a demand problem. This is an external threat from China and yes, facilitated by Mexico. It is a poisoning. And we have to a try. As the asylum process has been abused, become the Trojan horse for everything,

legal immigration, a threat to our culture, a threat to the nation state, and fentanyl. We'll set people in because they claim hardship, asylum, from whatever. We have to understand, people are coming to this country, not simply because they had a bad life somewhere else, but because they seek a better life, of course, in the United States of America, but that has to be controlled if we are going to maintain a culture, if we are going to maintain a nation state. And that is what has been tried by the state of Texas. Governor Gregg Abbott of the state of Texas has put up razor wire. He's dispatched the Texas DPS. He's charged the Texas Rangers. If they won't do it, we will. The Supreme Court of the United

States has said on numerous occasions, you don't have the constitutional authority. There have been those who said, declare an invasion, Greg Abbott, push the Constitution. The Supreme Court said recently that the razor wire put up by Texas at our border is unconstitutional. And a five-four decision that drew two conservative, one Donald Trump appointed Supreme Court Justice, Amy Coney-Barrant, and the always unreliable Chief Justice John Roberts. The Supreme Court of the United States said whether or not they fail or whether or not they intentionally disregard their duties, it is the purview of the federal government. Well, now it's time, and Governor Greg Abbott is saying, this isn't over. Now it's time to defy. Now it's time to press.

The threat is too existential. Press the Supreme Court until we can get someone else running the United States, press the federal government. And by all means, understand this problem. It's existential as a nation state, and it is literally killing people in the United States. So vote for people who don't close. cloak themselves in the demagoguery of racism or whatever is their charge, lack of empathy for anyone who believes you simply have to have a secure border, look past that nonsense and by all means vote for someone who believes in a southern border for the United States

of America. What is the mindset of people who would embrace open borders, who see the world? world as a utopic globalist one-world vision of the world economic forum of liberal elites. Let's talk to someone who has been reporting on the WF, on COVID, on free speech. It's journalist Michael Schellenberger coming up on the Will Cain Show. It is time to take the quiz. It's five questions in less than five minutes. We ask people on the streets of New York City to play along.

Let's see how you do. Take the quiz every day at the quiz.com. Then come back here to see how you do. did thank you for taking the quiz from the fox news podcasts network hey there it's me kennedy make sure to check out my podcast kennedy saves the world it is five days a week every week download and listen at foxnewspodcast.com or wherever you listen to your favorite podcast would you eat guinea pig how about pigeon what if i told you more people to eat guinea pig and pigeon than tilapia worldwide would you eat horse what if i told you more people

eat horse way more people eat horse than eat buffalo worldwide that coming up in just a moment here on the will cane show streaming live at foxnews.com and on youtube always on demand at the Will Kane Show on YouTube, streaming live on Facebook. And if you want to enjoy the audio version of the Will Kane podcast, check us out at Apple, Spotify, or at Fox News Podcast. Coming up in just moments, we're going to be joined by one of the bravest and quickest rise to stardoms within journalism over the past 12 months. Matt Taiibi and Michael Schellenberger have pioneered the free speech beat, not just publicly, but in front of the United States Congress pointing out the extensive ways, both mainstream media and the government, has censored any very serious and important conversations out there in the world.

Coming up in just moments, we'll be talking to that journalist. We'll be talking to Michael Schellenberger. Also, we're going to talk about our conversation with The Rock. I'm going to show you a picture real quick of me hanging out with The Rock. I don't think we can show that picture as we speak right now. Too many different inputs coming in. We'll get there, Will. We'll get there. We'll get there.

Yeah, oh, yeah. We're all working out exactly the duties and the technical requirements of the Will Kane show. But I don't think it's any big letdown to say, here's the Rock. Instead, here's Michael Schellenberger. Michael Schellenberger joins us now. You can check him out, by the way. His books are San Francisco, and Apocalypse Never. His substack is public where I've just spent some time talking about how indispensable,

though, that work that you've been doing, Michael, along with Matt Taibi, over the past 12 months, and really putting the focus back on free speech in America. You know, man, I was just talking about the importance of a southern border in many of the, you know, practical ways, but also philosophical ways, Michael. I mean, the practical effect is the crisis that we've seen across the nation. You saw some of it first in San Francisco, but all over the nation when it comes to fentanyl. But on a philosophical level as well, like what is the idea of a nation state? Does the United States have an identifiable and maintainable culture? But there's clearly a thought process out there, Michael, represented perhaps most notably now because of Davos with the World Economic Forum, that sees a more utopic vision for the world that seemingly, Michael, rejects the idea of the nation state.

Yeah, hey, well, it's good to be with you again. Yeah, I agree, absolutely. I think there's basically two competing visions. I mean, one is of civilization as we've had it for thousands of years, really. in the particular form of liberal democracy that we pioneered in the United States. And it's not that complicated, really. I mean, you do have to have borders that function. You have to have law and order, meritocracy, cheap energy. And if you want it to be a democracy, you need free speech. You need to have elections. So in some ways, it's so simple.

But yeah, I think there's been this challenging paradigm, which says really no decisions are best made at the global level. It's best made at the United Nations or the World Economic Forum or the World Health Organization or UNESCO or, you name it, many other global organizations. You see, I mean, what's interesting, and you notice it's really important to elites that they be able to move people around the world. This is extremely important to elites in Europe. It's important in the United States. They are very focused on censoring and spreading their own disinformation around this issue, suggesting that's not a problem. gone to the point where obviously it is a huge problem, but demonizing anybody that raises concerns around the importation of large amounts, large numbers of unskilled workers, which obviously

dampens wages for working people, sort of dismissing all those concerns as racist. You know, we were looking at how there's just a small number of messages that elites use to basically disparage and demonize their opponents. they're very interesting it's it's basically that they're racists that they're fascists that they're somehow connected to russia and you might think well those are you know all things that that they think are true but it's notable that they also they they don't say things like oh it's economically inefficient that was an argument that was used in brexit briefly but even in brexit the focus was on russia so you see there's a very intense focus to kind of frame populists nationalists mostly that's

the right but it all is not necessarily that but what we've documented and where we've come to after a year of this now is really that what you're seeing as elites engaged in counter populism and they're using the same tactics and tools that they developed in the war on terrorism and this is why it's been so confusing in terms of left and right because we associate the war on terrorism at least initially with george w bush of course it was heavily prosecuted by obama but you get to the end of the obama administration you get to trump you know brexit in 2016 in trump's election and you see elites start to turn these counter-terrorist tools into counter-populous tools. You know, Mike, we throw that word around.

I use the word a lot. You've used it numerous times in your answer to me just now. Elites. Who are the elites? Yeah, I mean it really, I don't want to make it. I'm not trying to be super fancy with it. I just mean, you know, college-educated people that tend to work in journalism. We sometimes say professional managerial class.

a concept that was developed by James Burnham to describe how as capitalism becomes more complex, particularly after World War II, you have all these different agencies. I mean, there's some of many government agencies that many people don't even know of or have you even heard of. So you have this huge class of educated people that work in, you know, NGOs and media, in journalism, in government, in corporations. You know, we used to, the idea used to be that corporations, were where the conservatives and Republicans were, we've seen even that's changed, right? Where the corporations are the one that are pushing a pretty radical trans agenda, pushing, you know, a pretty radical climate agenda, Black Lives Matter,

and really sort of moralizing a new morality, a new, what you might call a new woke morality on the whole population. So that's who I mean by elites. But what do you think, Mike, is the through line? You know, there was a time when we would have used that term, probably to, to, to, to stratify a country economically, so the elites would be presumed to be the wealthier side of society, but I'm not sure wealth does the job of describing elites. Many people have written about this. Is it education level? Is it worldview? Is it a mindset? By the way, it's also sort of international. It's not defined by necessarily American colleges or American

elites. There's a commonality. And I'm not rejecting the existence of elites, Mike. I'm definitely not. I believe as well with you that there is a small group of people defining what is acceptable, what's acceptable to see, what's acceptable to think, what's acceptable to read, even to some extent what's acceptable to eat. But I'm not sure what defines them, what's a through line of who makes up the elite. Yeah, it's such a great question, Will. I think that, I think it's, you know, really if you go from World War II until, let's say, 2016 with this populist revolution, both political parties left and right, but also you saw in Europe, had elites and then, you know, educated, affluent elites and then working folks. What really happens after 2016 is that it starts to split by party.

So you start to see, you know, the elites really kind of moving more to the left. So you see the never-Trump Republicans who I would say a more professional managerial class elites becoming more Democrat, many of the folks that had been Democrats that were more working class, and even some that are sort of anti-interventionist, anti-imperialist left-wing people like Matt Taibi, like Glenn Greenwald, like my colleagues at public, and to some extent myself, because that was my history as well, you start to sort of see, well, we start to sympathize more with the anti-interventionism of nationalism and populism. So you start to see that. Now, I guess, you know, to some extent, you're always going to have leaders and you're always going to have folks that are educated and

providing some of that leadership. But I think maybe the better way to think of it is that really the professional managerial class ends up on the left much more strongly than I think it did before 2016. You know, Mike, I am fascinated by guys like Glenn Greenwald and Matt Taibi and yourself who were, I can't speak to you. And Matt and I've had our own conversations. And I've talked to Glenn as well, who weren't just men of the left, but were reliable, celebrated. I do not think they would have even been self-described as centrist left prior to the last five some odd years. And again, I think I'm not as familiar with your entire resume, Mike, in terms of where your ideological bent has been throughout your career. But I do think it's fair to say you were probably,

just said to us, probably someone who had been self-described on the left, what is it that's changed? Like, for them, for you, why are you now seeing yourself distinct from whatever's happening to the left? Yeah, great question. Yeah, I mean, all of us have slightly different trajectories. I think Glenn and Matt are probably a little bit more similar. I was already becoming more moderate around environmental issues because I supported things like fracking and nuclear power. On homelessness, I support, you know, mandating psychiatric care and rehab to people who break the law as an alternative to jail as opposed to the much more libertarian, radical left policies of the West Coast. And that's what San Francisco is about. But I definitely, I've always,

I've always been very skeptical and critical of U.S. military interventions abroad. I was against the invasion of Iraq, against the long-term occupation of Afghanistan, many of the other interventions have been opposed to, not always opposed, not knee-jerk, but certainly skeptical of those interventions. So I think all of those things participated in it. I think all of us, and this would go also, I think, for Elon Musk and many of the rest of us that are more Gen X left, was that really did not, we do not like, we do not like wokeism. You know, we don't like the the you know i was

i said a conversation about this i think a lot of millennials don't know what it was like in the 80s and 90s in the 80s and 90s and i don't want to overly romanticize it but i mean there was more of a sense of which all that race stuff the boomers dealt with that you know now you can date people from different colors and you go to different parties and you hang out

and it's kind of that we the baggage there's probably still baggage there but it wasn't anywhere as intense as it was was in the 60s. You get to like the 2000s and even before the rise of social media, but the rise social media, you sort of see it all come back around race and sex. And you're like, really, are we really going to then go and like, we're going to go do this again? I mean, I thought we did that in the late 60s and it ended badly. So I think a bunch of us got turned off by that. Yeah. I genuinely think that is why Elon bought Twitter. It was, you know, people will say it was restore Babylon B. I think it's kind of a, it's a useful metaphor.

I think it was really like it was a toxic environment where somehow it was, you know, bad to be white, bad to be heterosexual, you know, bad to be American. It was a very guilt, just a very negative discourse. I think we all know what we're talking about. So I think a lot of us were turned off to that because it's not liberal. It's not actually what we meant by liberal anyway. I know that it's what people call liberal, but it's actually quite illiberal. And this idea of silencing people, there's something wrong with you, psychological. if you want to make other people shut up, I mean, you can ignore people. So this desire to censor to D-platform to cancel, it comes from a bad place psychologically that I think that, you know,

earlier in the Gen X period, I think we had a more, you know, properly liberal view, which was like, hey, that's your thing. I don't agree, but, you know, let's just kind of be more chill about it. You know, I think the woke left's response to you would be you lived in a, in a dream reality, their response would be whatever you perceived to be, the 80s and the 90s was from the perspective of a white man and you didn't see or acknowledge the problems that existed underneath your nose. I'm Gen X as well. I happen to think you're correct. I would never suggest we were arriving at racial utopia and racism had gone the way of the dinosaurs. But we, I do believe, looked to make that not our defining characteristic.

And I think the polling, by the way, backs up our perception of reality. If you see race-relation polls over time, in the mid-2000s, so, you know, 03 or so was its Nadir. It was the lowest. It was the highest racial harmony. And then, you know, it's a correlation, but it's worthy of exploration with Barack Obama around his presidency. It begins to rise, which is wild because it should have been the celebration of the moment, forget ideology for a moment or parties or partisanship, just a moment for America to say we have started to really overcome, but instead it began more to divide. I do want to ask

you this, Mike. You know, I talked about this yesterday here on the Will Kane show. Many of the things you talk about your evolution, it's not simply your evolution or Matt's or Glens. It's also the evolution of the Republican Party. And that non-interventionist strain of the Republican Party. And that non-interventionist strain of the Republican Party, the populism of concern, and I'm going to put it in the realm of concern, it always needs to be pressed for action, but for the middle class or for the downtrodden in the Republican Party has been a movement to go in that direction for the GOP. And I am concerned. I'm curious, I don't know if you would ever self-describe yourself now on the right or vote Republican, but that has also correlated to the rise of Donald Trump.

And I'm curious without Donald Trump, if the Republican Party returns to sort of its baseline of decades of a little more callous to the populist plight of the middle class and lower middle class and a little more interested in military adventurism. I am concerned of who keeps this direction, if not after Donald Trump for the GOP. I'm so glad to hear you say that. And I've actually been, my heart has been warm. by the concern on the part of a lot of Republicans and conservatives that Nikki Haley might win and that she would bring back neocons and that that would return to republicanism. I share that concern. I've certainly seen Glenn has been going after Nikki Haley, you know, Rand Paul. These are all people that I respect a great deal.

So I've been really happy to see that. It seems like assuming Trump wins the nomination, then. it seems like the party will be firmly a party of populism and nationalism and of the working class and the Nicky Haley folks will just become Democrats. I think that's a healthy trajectory. I support that. Personally, I'm in my reporter mode now. I mean, you may know I ran for governor in 2022 and it didn't work out. And so I'm really a journalist. I really am enjoying it. and i've really decided to be independent which i am i'm politically independent um i may not vote uh for a presidential candidate so i'm a little old-fashioned in the sense that i really am enjoying

the independent status i have um i have concerns around trump you know there's things that he says just this thing you know of like i'd be dictator for a day you know i know i know what he means you know um i don't find it helpful you know it's it's concerning like basically all my friends and all my family, the friends they still have, you know, they don't, they really, it's triggering, it's concerning. And especially when you have been, we've been documenting abuses of power by the Democrats, censorship, abuses of power by the FBI. I mean, this latest thing that the January 6th bomb was a hoax and that the FBI and the Secret Service are implicated in it. I mean, these are really serious potential abuses of power that are not being properly investigated. it's been partisan.

I'm very concerned about that. I think it's hard to make the arguments that Democrats have become more authoritarian and you even see totalitarian impulses and this desire to silence people. It's much harder to make that when we have Republicans also demanding for censorship in some ways

or saying things like that. So anyway, that's my little thing on. I know people will object, but I tend to just enjoy my independent status and we'll maintain that for the next, you know, past the 20, 24. elections. Well, I think it's fair to say Democrats are willing to destroy democracy in the pursuit of saving democracy. That they feel Donald Trump represents some type of authoritarianism. And in order

to counterbalance that authoritarianism, to defeat that authoritarianism, they will fully embrace authoritarianism. They will embrace all the trappings of it, as you mentioned. Censorship, dictates, lockdown, whatever it may be will be embraced in order to, in their mind, push back on authoritarianism. And for your family, I think the thing on a shallow level is just always about Donald Trump's personality. But then if you just dig one level deeper, it's a question of do you take him literally or do you take him seriously? And I think too many people take him literally while not taking him seriously. They think he's a clown show and yet at the same time think he will be a dictator because he says I'll be dictator for a day. Where the other side says

he doesn't mean it. He doesn't want to be a dictator, but he takes the things he want to accomplish very seriously. I want to push forward, Mike. There's something I've always want to talk to you about. You wrote about this. You brought up a minute ago, homelessness. You know, the homelessness thing to me, we all probably listening also have some personal experience with severe mental illness. There's just a direct correlation. And I'm not here to tell you which one is more moral. But there's a direct correlation between the shutdown of institutions in the United States and the rise in mental illness on the streets of America. Homelessness and mental illness are very, very overlapped. And some, what is it now, Mike, probably 40 years ago.

The shutdown of involuntary commitment in institutions was a movement in the 70s, I believe. When that happened, we saw the rise of mental illness and homelessness. And I don't think it's a good thing to take people's freedom away, meaning involuntary commitment. But the trick, the problem is, those that are sick, don't commit themselves. So I don't know what you do here, Mike, but I do think these two issues are tied together. No more institutions. Now we have homelessness. Yeah, you're absolutely right. It's a very, I still get emotional about this issue, even though I've been working on it for so long, it's very hard to see particularly, you know, women in psychotic states, particularly women, but men too, but young women, you know, half naked in psychotic states, knowing they'd

been sexually assaulted on the streets. I've seen women with hospital bans still on their wrists clearly should be getting care in a hospital. And everybody that, you know, all of the social workers and, you know, homeless service providers in the area know that they should be in hospital and they're not. And so clearly, yeah, we shut down the hospitals. Some of the, you know, it's not exactly, we call deinstitutionalization, but in some ways it was just re-institutionalization. We took people out of mental, out of mental hospitals.

They ended up in prisons and jails, or they ended up in the streets. There is good, you can do residential care. My aunt had schizophrenia. She had residential care. She was in a group home. That's what that is, where we call boarding care in California. But you still often need to have some sort of court order so that she can't go. and live in a homeless encampment,

that there's some way to require that they come inside. Or it's also called conservatorship in California. Or, you know, we also have something called assisted outpatient treatment. That's a fancy way of saying some court order for people. You know, look, we all love our freedom. None of us would want to be involuntarily, you know, sent to a hospital if we're saying at the same time, if I have a psychotic break, you know,

and I think that, you know, whatever, that I should be naked and living on the streets, and that's fine. I hope somebody would stop me from doing that so that I don't end up being badly abused like so many people on the street are. So I think we all want those two things. We also, there's been a very anti, there's a movement on the radical left since the 60s that's really demonized psychiatry, sort of see it show up in these movies, we're full over the cuckoo's nest. I do think we're now seeing a move back. I saw the Vecrauma Smami say we need to bring back the psychiatric hospitals. I just did an interview that's a big book by,

by a New York University sociologist, young, very left, you know, very liberal, very strong liberal credentials. He'm also making the case for expanded conservatorship of people with mental illness. His brother is mentally ill. And we all know what happens to people on the street. So I do hope we're coming back to a better place for that. I think that the bipartisan potential is that you have a proper psychiatric addiction care system, much more similar to what other developed countries have, combined with expanded efforts to get people the care they need. There's always going to be a judge involved. So it's not like this is just psychiatrists gone wild,

but I think that's the holy... Wait, wait, wait, help me reconcile something. You said there's been a demonization of psychiatry on the left, but that comes at the same time that we've seen a massive spike in diagnoses. Everything now seems to have a clinical diagnosis instead of, hey, man, you know, now I'm not diminishing depression, right? But, hey, you're sad or you're having a bad.

time. Instead, we've moved towards a diagnosis. You have a specific condition, and there's a medicine for that. That has definitely been on the rise. I mean, the numbers, Michael, on the people who are on antidepressants or ADHD drugs, it's stunning. I mean, like the percentage of America, and by the way, America, way, America way, way, way, way, way, the percentage of our population on psychiatric medicine is it would blow your mind. mind. So help me rationalize that with what you said. There's been an effort to demonize psychiatrics. Yeah, great question. And by the way, I totally agree with you. I just saw this great little, I think it was like a TikTok or Instagram video where somebody was complaining about

being blue or depressed or something. And their friend was like, have you exercise today? Have you eaten right? Did you get enough sleep? Did you get enough sunlight? You know, we now know I'm doing daylight because I have some amount of seasonal effective disorder. I benefit enormously. I have this little daylight that I have put on the morning. I run in the morning. So there's a lot of things that we can do for optimal mental health that people aren't doing and that we're not encouraging. But yeah, I think you're absolutely right. I mean, I think that there's sort of, I think the way you explain it is that the anti, the way that the anti-psychiatry movement manifested itself was really around victimhood ideology. So people with serious mental illness were viewed as victims. And to victims,

nothing should be taken and everything should be given and no requirements that they come inside or or whatnot for the folks that we're talking about the folks that have much more like psychiatric disorders which are are curable you know serious mental illness like schizophrenia bipolar and depression are viewed as things that are kind of lifelong and they're treatable but it's not like psychiatric disorders like anxiety depression oCD ADHD these things are highly treatable and often without drugs at all right just diet and exercise and community and having purpose in your life so but yeah i think you're right i think that this is um these are in some ways iatrogenic psychiatric disorders meaning that they're caused by the system by the health care system which has drugs to sell and um and as you

have the drugs emerge then you have many more diagnoses so yeah i completely agree with you i think both things are true. It's that we have too many seriously mentally ill people that need to be required to come inside and get the care that they need so they don't destroy themselves and hurt others. And you also have people that are being overdiagnosed that just need purpose in their life, exercise in the morning, enough sunlight, proper sleep, you know, probably quit drinking alcohol, you know, no drugs or alcohol is always a good policy for people. So I think there's just a lot. I think both things are true. All right. I want to end here. I want you to help me to understand now that we've defined the elite. I want you to help me understand the mindset

of the elite, maybe the world economic forum. You know, we started today's show talking about the existence of a nation state and culture and the necessity of a border. I'm glad you brought up Europe, by the way, in so many ways Europe is the canary and the coal mine on a unfettered migration of people across the globe. I also am. glad you brought up the working class in the constant rebuttal that any opposition to illegal immigration is racism, because we see, by the way, in liberal cities, many, for example, black community leaders saying this is having a negative effect on not just our wages, but our jobs. And, you know, we're suffering from the unemployment effects of illegal immigration.

So what is the mindset of the guys sitting at Davos? What is the mindset of the world economic form of the liberal elite. And as someone who came from the left, I mean, is it a belief in a utopia that if just given enough power can be engineered, that people are pawns and the smartest can create a new society? Like, I'm just, I'm curious, and whoever that may be, Klaus Schwab. If Klaus Schwab and I were talking, and we sat down, and I'm like, Klaus, you know, like, what is it you want? Like, what is your vision of the world? What do you think it is, Mike? Yeah, it's a really interesting question, and they're a fascinating group of people. So there's just a lot going on. I mean, on the one hand, these are very empowered people. They're

affluent. They have a lot of power. They're used to having a lot of power. On the other hand, I think they're very anxious about losing their power. They're anxious, particularly about populist movements. They're anxious that they're not going to be able to exercise control across borders. They're not going to be able to have military interventions when they want to have them. They're not going to be able to control energy supplies. They've been in an alliance for over 50 years with interests that want to keep energy scarce. Energy is basically very abundant, particularly natural gas and nuclear are just infinite effectively. And so that's a problem.

So you have energy interest that's a problem because then the prices are too low. So you have energy interests that ally with this Malthusian anti-human pro-scarcity agenda. That's often the financial bright and butter of those elite efforts. And then you have the populism, which I think absolutely terrifies them. They worry they're not going to have the control they need. They want to be able to move. You want to be able to invade countries and then you end up having refugee and migration crises as a result. And you've got to go to move people around the world.

They're terrified that they're not going to be able to do that. You know, you see it in Europe. You see it in the United States. You see in Ireland, you know, all these different countries struggling with integrating all these migrants. You see in the United States, it's very progressive, as you mentioned, Chicago, New York, California. And you see very progressive states that are like, we are social. I think there was a bunch of mayors, by the way, that yesterday sent a letter saying they're overwhelmed. The social services are overwhelmed.

So you start to get the contradictions of this elite ideology where you can't just move people around the world. You end up with problems of assimilation, but also your systems are overwhelmed. So, I mean, look, we're in a huge, a period of massive change. I think you're going to see a huge political victories for the right in the United States and around the world, not just this year, but I would say in several election cycles, I think the left is going to have to respond to that. I do think you're going to see a reversion towards nationalism, not complete, but much stronger control over borders, because it's obviously gotten out of control. The public understands that they know now that it's not racist. When you have black

progressive mayors of Chicago saying they can't handle all these people, that's not racism, that's just being practical. So I think that a lot of the older ways of demonizing the populist national's right are going to diminish in power. And you are going to say, I think the right is going to have to be disciplined. And we've seen some of that from Trump being, you know, with the exception of the thing I mentioned, the dictator for day, you did see some more discipline out of Trump. In fact, you tried to clean that up. So I do, it does seem like we're in for a period of change. It's, it's exciting to watch. I hope that it results in more civilization and more liberal democracy and not some sort of a, you know, reversion towards authoritarianism, because it does

seem like we're really on a razor's edge between those two potential futures. Well, he's doing important work in champion free speech and pushing back on institutions bent towards authoritarianism. You should subscribe, follow him at the public substack or check out either of his book, San Francisco or Apocalypse Never. And I always enjoy the conversation. Thank you so much, Michael Schellenberger. Me too. Thanks, Will. All right. Fascinating conversation deep. And I always am I always find it enlightening to hear the perspective of those. You know, we all should be willing.

We can't be so cemented in our beliefs that we never grow and we never consider alternate points of view. I know I've changed over the last 10 years, you know, probably from less libertarian to more culturally conservative, from less ideologically stringent when it comes to what used to define the Republican Party to embracing what Michael was just talking about, populism and nationalism. And I think it's always fascinating enlighten to hear somebody who made a move like Matt Taibi, like Glenn Greenwald, like Michael Schellenberger, who move from the left to wherever they would describe themselves today, championing, I think, at its very essence, freedom. Do you feel free to eat pigeon or guinea pig? Plus behind the scenes with The Rock. Coming up on The Will Kane Show.

This is Jimmy Phala, inviting you to join me for Fox Across America, where we'll discuss every single one of the Democrats' dumb ideas. Just kidding. It's only a three-hour show. Listen live at noon Eastern or get the podcast at fox acrossamerica.com. I bet it's pretty easy to guess what the world's number one meat consumed. across the globe might be you could probably easily guess that's chicken everybody loves the yard bird but what else is the world eating that coming up here now on the will cane show streaming live at

fox news facebook fox news dot com fox news youtube channel on demand on youtube at the will cane show or on podcast at apple spotify or at fox news podcast go subscribe to the will cane show on youtube and subscribe to that podcast at any of those platforms where you enjoy your podcast. All right, I got to hang out today on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange with what I think is one of America's biggest celebrities. Let's bring in two a days, Dan, Young James,

and Patrick, the producers here of The Will Kane Show. Do you think that The Rock, like, we've had this debate on Fox and Friends, Who do you think is the most famous person in the world? Trump. Taylor Swift. I think Taylor. I guess the only way to evaluate that is could you find somebody who doesn't know who they are?

I don't think you could say that for anyone. I think that Trump is up there. I think Taylor Swift is up there. I think Trump maybe not as well known, say, if I dropped into, I'm just trying to think. think of a place in the world where the name recognition, the Q rating factors in likability plus name recognition, so just pure name recognition, where it might not, I don't know, was there a country where somebody would go, who's Donald Trump? Yeah.

I mean, you're talking about social media followers, too. I mean, The Rock has, what, like 400 million followers, so, you know. The Rock is 489. Yeah. Taylor Swift is, oh, she's only had 95 million. So the Rock's got her. Yeah. I have two other offerings.

Michael Jordan was up there at one point. That's true. And he's slipped, though. Michael Jordan pales in comparison to the two entries I'd like to make now. Cristiano Ronaldo and Lionel Messi. Ooh, true. Yeah, because soccer worldwide is bigger everywhere than something we're talking about now. I don't think Michael Jordan worldwide would have ever penetrated the celebrity.

The shoes, though? Rinaldo. No, not Ronaldo Messi. and I'm actually shocked at the Rock is that much bigger than Taylor Swift Yeah That could be That could have been an Instagram number

versus a Twitter number I wouldn't You know I don't think I'm not that shocked by it Because he also does Chinese movies Whereas Taylor Swift doesn't May not be as big in that market

Oh that's a good point Billion Chinaman And The Rock makes himself popular In China Yeah he's one of the biggest celebrities I've ever spoken to, with Sylvester Stallone, Donald Trump, and The Rock. Were you nervous going in? I thought I would be.

Yeah. I did. I was prepared for nerves, but I wasn't. And I don't know why that is. And I mean, I'll, I don't get, I'll tell, honest, my whole game is to be as authentic and honest and revealing and vulnerable with you as I can be. At this point, through five years of ESPN, and you guys know how big of a sports fan I am. I got to encounter a lot of people who I would have placed high on my Mount Rushmore of celebrity.

And so it took away the nerves of interviewing somebody. So the nerves are more about, I want to ask about X, he will not like it because of why. Or I need to push, and that might put our relationship in an awkward position, but I will still do it. I asked The Rock, and this will air tomorrow right here on the Will Cain Show. I asked him about running for president. I asked him about the ovation at UFC and WWE events for Donald Trump. I asked him about Maui. And the rock, I'm going to tell you what I really liked about him.

First of all, he's very, very approachable, despite him being the rock. Like, he's got a nature that is... Not physically approachable, but... Very friendly and approachable. But here's my favorite thing. I asked those questions, and a lot of celebrities have mastered evasion. Evasion makes you really angry as an interviewer and makes sure. you want to press harder. He balances the appropriate amount of evasion to be not

controversial with answering your questions specifically. Like I asked him, and some of the stuff is off the cuff, like not planned for. I mean, I don't script out. I mean, I roughly outlined, this is what I may talk about, but I never script questions. And I asked him in the moment, hey, what's your biggest failure? And I could see he was ice skating. He was like, I don't know how or what to answer. But he was going through it philosophically, and then he goes, but you asked a specific question, and so I want to give you a specific answer, which I totally respected, and he gave me his biggest failure. Was there anything he kind of, you could tell he wanted to steer away from besides that,

or was he pretty open to talk about anything? Well, I thought he would be a little more cagey on asking if he would run for president. I didn't ask him who he's going to endorse. I didn't ask him his political beliefs. And, I mean, I'll give you one moment. Like, also in the interview was a guy I've known for a long time. He's the president of WWE. His name is Nick Con.

And I asked Nick about the reception at USC and WWB for Donald Trump. So Dwayne Johnson didn't have to jump in. And he chose to. He goes like, how about that ovation? There's a kind of, and you've spent some time with Trump, and you've talked about kind of that charisma and the magnetism. And when you speak with him, he kind of makes you feel like you're the only person in the room. Clinton had that would, and with the rock kind of having those presidential people talking about it,

not sure if he really has any ambitions, but did you feel that from him? What was that kind of yes. Was it similar to Trump's? So I've said this before, I think the measure of a, you know, we talked about this yesterday on the Will Kane show, like what does it mean to be a good politician? When I say what does it mean to be a good politician, I don't mean how good are you back room deals, but making deals is actually part of it to get something done. It is, that you have to be able to get elected in order to accomplish your agenda. And that may not be the way we want it to be, but it is the way it is. When I said yesterday that Ron DeSantis lacked some of the sales department needed for his product to move when he has a very good manufacturing

department, there was some people online who said, oh, Will just wants a circus. He wants the show. And I just think they have a hard time separating what they want to be reality from what is reality. And in order to change reality, you have to acknowledge reality. And here's the the reality of being a good politician. How long can they make you feel like you matter? So I've met several. And I'll tell you this, like this was early on, this is 10 years ago, I met Joe Scarborough. I met him, in the end I met him on several occasions. And he was a politician before he was a media guy, right? And made eye contact, talked to me, made me feel for a moment, like, oh, he, he, he, I matter. He's in this conversation. And then I saw the light dim and

his eyes and I saw him move on to other people in the room. Now look, there's a lot of reasons someone may do that because they have a lot to do is one of those potential reasons. I was around Elliot Spitzer. Elliot and I have grave disagreements. A lot. His grave the adjective. We have deep disagreement. But I'm going to tell you something. Pretty good politician. But I also could see when he lost interest. Okay. The Rock, we were together for 15 minutes, and it's a transactional relationship. He wants to promote the WWE's merger with UFC and the launch of the new publicly traded company TKO. He was engaged. It is eye contact. It didn't feel obligatory. It felt like deep interest. In fact, he said maybe he'll come here

and we can do longer, maybe at WrestleMania. Because he wanted to talk about some of that introspective stuff like failure and insecurity. And just to wind it up, young James, Trump is a little different Trump definitely makes you feel like you're madder He wants your feedback But Trump's magnetism is such that he always has the floor He and he tells you stories And he wants you have a good time

Oh, he wants you to enjoy everything Look at the toilets Oh listen to the music Do you like the food? He's the best toys Listen to this Wow And I don't think he'd mind

He DJs when you're with him He picks the songs No way He has an iPad, and he DJs. I was at his, we were at his country club, and he DJed the music. He wants you to have fun, to be happy. It's a different, he's a unique, unique person in that. He almost doesn't apply to that analysis of other politicians.

Right, well, we're excited to see and hear the interview with The Rock tomorrow. So, everyone's stay tuned. Right here, 12 Eastern Time, on the Will Cain Show, Fox News.com, YouTube. And, of course, if you ever listen on podcasts, you can get it, it'll be available. We'll put that out tomorrow on the Will Cain Show. But now, I wanted to introduce this list. It's kind of fascinating coming on the heels of conversation about the World Economic Forum. You'd be pretty shocked about what the world eats. Like, what's the most popular meat consumption? And we thought, let's share that with you, but let's also go through

where you would draw your line or what you have tried. So I think two a days is going to walk us through this young James, Patrick, and myself, would you or wouldn't you? Would you rather? with world's meat. Well, the bottom of the list, let's start there. Turtles at 50K. I've heard of turtle soup, but I don't think I'm trying turtle. Never had turtle soup. Yeah, I don't think I'm going to do it.

I would. You would try it? Absolutely. It doesn't seem like it has much meat. Have you ever seen a turtle outside of its shell? It doesn't look tasty. It does not look tasty. I thought you were the guy that said you'll try everything once.

There are exceptions to that rules. Maybe I lied. But the next thing, though, crocodile I would try for sure, is the next one less. crocodile you've had crocodile alligator alligator it was crock yeah we uh our fraternity chef and one of the best chefs you'd ever have the food was incredible and it was honestly it was kind of like dry chicken nothing special but we got to hang the uh the head in our fraternity for the rest of the year so wow that was fun um anything that can be a pet on this list no way i'm with you horse camel cat dog 25 million for dog? No, thank you.

No. Not even a dog. No. And cat? Who's going to eat cat? I got no love for cats, but... I'm allergic, so. I'm not going to eat cat. Yeah. And I want to know who is eating cat. Is that the Chinese? Who's eating cat?

I think so. We should find that out. There's got to be a regional breakdown of it somewhere. There's certain theories for a reason, you know, regarding certain topics. Well, I mean, it's a lot of cats. And I want to know, like, who's looking out in the alley going, that'll work. well in the suit. I recently tried shark. Wasn't a fan.

It was chewy. It was kind of thing. It was like eating a sponge almost. Have you ever tried shark? I don't think I've had shark. I would have guessed it's not that different from like a swordfish. Less, you can't cut through it as easy.

But it's not that great. The taste isn't great. I wouldn't do it. But most things on this list, like rabbit are up here. I love rabbit. I mean, tuna, salmon, turkey are great. Lobster, Patrick was saying he doesn't eat bottom feet. in that category.

Patrick, do you don't eat catfish? I don't eat anything out of the water if I can help it. Nothing out of the water? That's crazy. No, I don't eat some bugs. It's just water bugs. I don't like any of that. Just like, just plain old white fish tilapia?

None of that. Fish and chips? Well, I mean, if it's deep fried, I used to do it, but now I'm just like, I just can't handle it. It's in my mind now. Deathrow. meal. Multiple entrees coming out. I want, top of the line is brisket. Number one, I need good smoked brisket. I like it. See, I like a good brisket. I'm down with that. Mexican food, but fried catfish is making the death row, you know, you know how they'll bring you multiple entrees? Yeah. I love fried

catfish. It is good. I like all fish. I'm, like I told you, I'm getting married this year. So we're going for tasting this weekend for food for the wedding, and my fiancé does not eat meat. So I've got to pick one good meat thing I'm able to pick. So you were marrying into vegetarianism? Yes, pretty much. She'll eat salmon once in a while, but pretty much no animals. That's so sad for you. I know, man.

Got to sneak it in here. I know. I go out in the city right after work and just sneak it in. It's like, you're tastes like steak. What is that? What is going on? Speaking of steak. Cow comes in where on that list?

Cow comes in 300 million, right in the middle. Right in the middle. Yeah. You would think more people eat cow. Yeah. I think that's an American thing. Is it really? It's got to be an American thing then, right?

I know the Europeans love their lamb. That's higher than cow. Yeah. That is higher than cow, yep. I'm not big on lamb. The Europeans love their lamb. It's not an equal playing field with the cow. Do you think if I go to a restaurant in Europe is a steak like a luxury?

Or is it like, oh, I'd rather have the lamb? I think it's a luxury. I would say so. I mean, here especially it is. I'm surprised where a pig is on this list, by the way. Super high, right? Yeah, but not higher than goose and duck and sardines. Who's eating goose?

I don't know. I've never had goose. I've had duck. I've never had goose, though. I don't even see goose on the menu. What is this? I know you can say it's popular in Germany and China. Frontiers guy.

So, like, we're reading Little House on the Prairie in my home. And, you know, they eat a lot of random waterfowl and, They ate, you know, blackbirds. And so, like, you see, like, pigeon on here. Pigeon is, like, what, 60 million? Who's eating pigeon? I think it's just like people just don't discriminate against birds as much as we do. And we didn't used to in this country.

Crow? Blackbirds? No, thank you. No way. Apparently it was delicious. It was very tasty. Some of the stuff you can eat if you just don't know what it is. Yeah.

Just, I mean, the top of the list, everything tastes like. chicken. What's at the top list besides chicken? Sardines is number two. Sardines are number two. Yeah. Which doesn't taste like chicken in a whole. So what's the highest, real quick, before we go, what's the highest item on the list that you would not touch? Ooh, octopus.

You wouldn't eat octopus? It's delicious. I don't like rabbit. That's the highest. That's a 1.5 billion. Mine's a guinea pig. Guinea pig? Guinea pig was really high, wasn't it?

Yeah, it's towards the middle. That's just because it's a pet. I had a pet. I had a pet kitty pig growing up. Yeah, don't eat pets. No way. Pretty easy. That's a standard rule to have, I think.

Don't eat pets. Yep. Eat more cow. Eat more steak. All right, that's going to do it for us today here on the Will Kane show. Hope you enjoyed this episode. Leave us a five-star review. Always leave a comment.

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