Will Cain Country - Winners & Losers Of The 2nd Republican Debate With The Duffy's

Episode Date: September 29, 2023

As the Republican candidates try to close the widening gap between them and former President Donald Trump, Will sits down with the Hosts of the From The Kitchen Table Podcast, co-Host of The Bottom Line on The FOX Business Network, Sean Duffy, and co-Host of FOX&Friends Weekend, Rachel Campos-Duffy for a wide-ranging analysis of the second GOP debate. They break down the winners, the losers, who may have gained or lost some ground, and as well as who could be the next person to drop out of the race.    Tell Will what you thought by emailing [e-mail]   Follow Will on Twitter: @WillCain Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For a limited time at McDonald's, enjoy the tasty breakfast trio. Your choice of chicken or sausage McMuffin or McGrittles with a hash-brown and a small iced coffee for $5.5 plus tax. Available until 11 a.m. at participating McDonald's restaurants. Price excludes flavored iced coffee and delivery. Winners and losers of the Republican presidential prime. Mary Debate with Rachel Campos Duffy and Sean Duffy. It's the Will Kane podcast on Fox News Podcast. What's up and welcome to the weekend.

As always, you can download, rate, and review this podcast wherever you get your audio entertainment, Apple, Spotify, or at Fox News Podcast. And you can watch the Will Kane podcast on Rumble or on YouTube. Kevin Skidmore writes in to Will Cain Podcast at Fox.com. Will, I listen to all of your podcasts, but sometimes get behind. I just listened to the one on Federman. Maybe you should stick to political commentary and quit the sports predictions. I just burst out laughing on you talking about Miami as, quote, not so good,

while they just scored 70 points in a game. And then you pick Dallas, predictably, as the number one team and they lose to the Cardinals. Not a good Sunday for you. No, I'm not a Miami fan. Unfortunately, I'm a Panthers fan and I haven't had much of cheer about in a while. Could you please talk about the Panthers and how they won't win a game this year? Then maybe we will go undefeated the rest of the year. Yeah, I know that's not reality, but I can dream.

Kevin Skidmore. And to that, Kevin, I say, thank you for listening to all of our podcasts. Everybody has a bad weekend. Kevin, I already told you, I'm into baseball now. I'm a Texas Rangers fan primarily. It's October baseball, baby, and we're making the playoffs. I'm not going to make any predictions, unless I jinx my team. But right now, favorite sports ranking?

Baseball one, college football two, NFL, distant third. And the NBA hasn't even tipped off yet, where I will be burying myself in the Mavericks' depth chart. And should the Cowboys get it right and start blowing people out 40 to nothing again, we'll be back, baby. But everybody has a bad weekend. As evidenced by Wednesday night, everybody has a bad night. In my estimation, Nikki Haley and Tim Scott. But who were the winners of the Republican presidential primary debate? Well, I'll break that down with you now with my Fox and Friends Weekend,

co-host Rachel Campos Duffy and her husband, former congressman, and host of the bottom line, Sean Duffy. The other day, we were in my office, Pete and Rachel and I. Okay, and we were having a serious conversation about something. But it was on, we were all on the same page, and it was like, we were, we were moving, we were headed in a direction, and we were talking Rachel off a ledge, and we were all close. And then out of the blue, she goes, and we got to talk about the war on farmers. I mean, it was the biggest, it was the biggest reach over to the steering wheel and yank on it, you know, that you.

My favorite is, we see some, you know, we see some crazy stuff. here, but you, you're crazy. That's you. That's a quote from Will. That's a Will King's quote. You all do some stuff here, but I, you're crazy. All right, here we go. I was going to start with saying what you, how did you rank the debate participants in the Republican primary debate, but Sean came in unfiltered and tried to very naively and like a looky move, wanted to do it before the recording started. And I said, Duffy, what are you doing? Give it to me raw.

All right now, tell me your thoughts. Sean. Sean. Are we actually doing this podcast right now, Will? This is it, man. This is the way it's done. Okay. Right, God.

All right. So, I'm going to give it to your raw, Will Kane. You thought that we were still in, like, the break. Yeah, I thought we were just in, like, hang out mode. But, okay, that's fine. I'm going to give it to your raw because I saw one of your tweets, and I have a lot of respect for you. I think you're a well-thought-out, man. You analyze things.

Over-analyze things. And over-analyze things, too. But I saw your tweet. You said, Ron DeSantis won, and second place was Doug Bergam. And I'm like, what debate was Will Kane watching? And you and I both, I like Doug Bergam. I think he's a nice guy. I think he's, I mean, he's a great businessman.

He's great from North Dakota. I'm a northern guy myself, so he kind of speaks my language. I love kind of the cadence and the niceness of him. But you've got to have confidence. You've got to lay your vision out for America with some gusto and slow your conversation down a little bit. not Mike Pence slow, but slow it down and lay the vision out. And I thought he still seemed rattled. And so because I didn't have any confidence in what he was saying, even though it was smart, but I didn't have confidence in it, he fell for me. And he was my dark horse in the last

Wilcane podcast we did after the first debate. And he just, he didn't elevate. So I think you're 100% wrong as your number two. It was not Doug Bookham. So I'm just going to give it you straight. I like it. I like it. Rachel, you agreed with me last night on the Fox Nation debate analysis show. You thought Doug Bergam did well. Well, because this very first answer, he was the only one who actually answered the question about the strike with the auto workers, I think in the correct way. And he started talking about EV vehicles, basically the Green New Deal that the Biden administration has, you know, foisted on this country that is causing all this problem in our economy and causing inflation. And so I thought he got to the heart of the matter

really quickly. And I think in that way, though I think he lacks, you know, the charm and the sort of, you know, presence that many people would want out of a president. And I think that's a big part. And we can talk about that later because I think all of them are lacking that. And that's a big problem. But that said, if I had to trust someone to actually hold down, you know, you talked about the wheel, you know, hold the wheel here. I think that would be, that would be him. He clearly was the smartest one and getting to the heart of it. But I think the winners. Yeah, I think he was really smart. I thought he got to the heart of a lot of issues. But I think that the winners, the main winner, I think, is Nikki Haley. And I don't, I'm not a big fan of her policies. I hate her policy on Ukraine. I couldn't hate it more. But in, terms of showing herself. And I found her to be scrappy and feisty. I thought she exposed Vivek in a way that no one's been able to do. And I had a lot of questions about Vivek. I still like Vivek. But there are questions. And she was the only one that sort of exposed those weaknesses.

I thought she did a good job. And I think when I talked to other women, it was interesting. We talked about this last night, Will, on the Fox Nation analysis that we were doing throughout the show. I had sort of an informal poll going on with people texting me, and all the men were like, oh, she annoys me, it's grating, she's shrill, and then all the women were like, I like her, she's scrappy, she's in there, she's fighting. So I think there was a gender difference there. So I want to come back to Nikki Haley. Hold on real quick. I want to jump back to Nikki Haley, Sean. I want to stay on Doug Bergam for just a moment in your critique of Doug Berger. So I think your critique is very fair, Sean. I think Doug Bergam's presentation is poor. He doesn't have any weight. We talked about that in our last podcast together, Sean. He doesn't have any weight on the stage. There's not a sense of gravity or gravitas to Doug Bergam. But here's, let me explain to you what I think resonated with me about Bergam. There is the substance to what Rachel pointed out. I think his answer was the best on China and EVs in the UAW strike. It wasn't complete because he didn't talk about the role of inflation, which is a result of Biden policy.

as well, but he at least answered the question directly. This morning, Sean, Rachel, I went to a breakfast with a friend of mine, and he's a really smart guy. He's an attorney, California, and has moved to Texas. He's a California refugee. And we were talking about this, and he said, hey, do you know what makes Donald Trump different? He said, I watched that debate for 10 minutes last night. And he goes, we can agree. It's like Tiger Woods and Golf. There's Tiger and then the field. In politics, there's Donald Trump and then the field. And whether or not you like Donald Trump or you dislike Donald Trump, what you recognize is he stands out from the field. That may be hate, that may be love, but he stands apart from the field. And my friend said

this, he goes, in watching last night, it just became very clear who's in the field. And it's everybody. And here's why. He said, you know, when you're at a breakfast or talking to somebody, and they're just kind of talking at you and you're taking turns, monologuing, you're not really having a conversation. They're not listening to what you have to say. there's not a back and forth. For everyone on that stage, honestly, besides Bergam, it felt like that's what they were doing

and it gave a sameness to them all. So the moderators ask a question or somebody makes a debate point and they just wait their turn. Thank you very much for that question and then give a mini stump speech. That's what they did.

And it blends them all together to the point they just become indistinguishable and they try to trade on a little bit of humor or charm but it isn't really very differentiating. where Donald Trump actually answers questions. Now, that doesn't mean you're going to like his answer. That doesn't mean you're going to believe his answer, but he does answer the question.

And I found Bergam refreshing, Sean, in that he did directly acknowledge the question. And to me, that projects some sense of confidence. I can listen to you. I have an answer. I've thought about this. And I can talk about what you're talking about directly. and not just use this as an excuse to talk about me, myself, or my mini monologue. I'm not going to vote for Doug Bergam for President, Sean.

I don't think many people will. But I'm just analyzing the debate and the format, and that's what stood out from the field for me with Doug Bergam. So I get to say what, I don't disagree with that. And that was one of the points that really bothered me about the debate is people not answering questions. And if I can, Will. Is it Ilya Calderon? Ilya Calderon. So she asked the question about Hispanics really care about school violence and about gun control, right?

And the question, I forget who it went to, but a number of people got it. And none of them answered that question. And it came from a liberal viewpoint. But I guarantee you, to your point, well, had Donald Trump been on the stage, he would have heard the conversation, and he would have heard the conversation. and he would have drove a conservative stake supporting the Second Amendment, pushing back on our narrative, supporting law-abiding citizens' right to have firearms, going after people who violate the law with guns and throw them in jail,

including Hunter Biden himself. Yeah, he would have brought up Hunter. But he would have answered that question, and conservatives would have been joyous applauding him because he didn't fall away from the issue. And when he was president, again, whether you agree with him or not, He took on big issues and wrestled with them. Were these guys, if you can't answer that question, you can't be president. And the only other time in that debate that I feel like somebody did that was a standout moment for him.

It was Ron DeSantis when he rejected the question about education. When they baked into the question, this idea that it was racist. And he listened and he addressed, he doesn't just address it. He came strong. He said, that's a hoax. That's not real. That's not what we've done. to me, that shows the power of being present, of listening, of confidence in that particular issue for Ron DeSantis, which is his sweet spot.

And I just, I think that I just, Tim Scott and Mike Pence and, and Nikki Haley, who will talk about more in a moment, Rachel, I just feel like they just merge into the field because they're not there present and answering questions where I saw that in Bergam. I think what it is is confidence. And I think what Donald Trump has, again, like him or love him, love them or hate him, I should say, is that he has confidence in spades. And I'm going to tell you one of the things that is going to be a problem for Republicans is, and he's totally comfortable in who he is, right? So he will come out and he will say what he thinks and he'll own it. And I think that when Gavin Newsom, and I do believe Gavin Newsom will at some point,

this Biden thing is not going to last. You saw Gavin Newsom in the spin room yesterday. The guy has confidence in spades. He is lying. He's lying in his lies? But he's confident in his lies. He's full of himself. He has the same self-confidence that Donald Trump has.

And I think that's formidable. When people are very comfortable and confident in who they are, people pay attention. Because you and I talked a lot about it last night. when we did the analysis for Fox Nation, which is authenticity. And I thought what was missing on that stage was authenticity and confidence. And it goes to Bull's point. There was a lot of prepared, you know, mini-stum speeches that happened. And singers.

You bring up an interesting moment, Will, which is this conversation that Ron DeSantis had on education. And I thought he called it a hoax. You're right. That was great. But the one thing he missed that would have won the hearts of the viewers, if he had called her for being a liberal. Yeah. I mean, you can call out the moderator.

And we all saw that she was a left leaner, and she would never vote for Donald Trump. She's a Democrat. Why she's on the stage asking questions, you know, in a Republican primary? I don't know what she was. Had he called her out for being a radical liberal, people would have been like, listen, this guy can do it. You'll go with the press. You're going to be a winner in my book. Exactly.

I think, Sean, you're 100% right. that was the miss moment that I want. She was the loser of the event. I don't know how she was picked to be there, but she didn't represent the views of Hispanics in there. She represented the views of white liberal elites. So if they brought in a Nunivision moderator, Latinos care about the economy right now. Their views on immigration are not her views, at least not the ones that are people that are being affected by it in the southern border or even in AOC's district. So she was terrible and she deserved to be called out.

And you're right. Rhonda Santis might have like handily been the number one person. We wouldn't be wrestling between, was it Haley or him, had he done that? And that is what Donald Trump would have done. We'll be right back with more of the Will Kane podcast. Hungry now. Now. What about now?

Whenever it hits you, wherever you want. are grab an oh henry bar to satisfy your hunger with its delicious combination of big crunchy salty peanuts covered in creamy caramel and chewy fudge with a chocolatey coating swing by a gas station and get an o henry today oh hungry oh henry following fox's initial donation to the cur county flood relief fund our generous viewers have answered the call to action across all fox platforms and have helped raise seven million dollars visit go dot fox forward slash t X flood relief to support relief and rebuilding efforts. I want to come back to Ron DeSantis as well in a moment.

So Nikki Haley and Ron DeSantis are coming up in just one moment here. But I want to just give you guys an observation. I've been working with Rachel for three years. And I fully accept that, you know, attention and focus is a zero-sum game. And you only have so much room in your heart and your mind to share. But in three years, and you're married to her. So you take a lot of this energy up of the zero-sum game. some, but the rest is devoted to Pete Hegseth, where she will ever say, you know, Sean,

you are 100% right. I've never once heard in three years of working with Rachel, you know, Will, you are 100% right. But I hear a lot of, Pete, you and I share a brain. Last weekend, she literally turned to Pete. Last weekend, she literally turned to Pete, and I told him after the show, Pete, you had said three words. You had said, and the mainstream media, and Rachel turned to him and goes, exactly.

And I said, she didn't even know where you were going to go. with that statement you could have said in the mainstream media is great but you got you earned an exactly pete with three words i'm working on my first exactly i knew where pete was going i'm working on my first exactly or will you're 100% right um okay well i but rachel coming home from my show will's been a little crabby will's been a little surly i hear all about it on i'm camera and off camera Oh, okay, and on that, on that, no, I'm going to disagree with Rachel about something. I think Sean's going to be on my side. Let's talk about Nikki Haley.

I had Nikki Haley as one of my big losers of the night. And Rachel, you said it last night, and you said it again here today, that you thought she was feisty and a winner. Surprisingly, she came out of debate number one for me as one of the winners. I think her poll numbers went up slightly, and people said she had done well. I didn't see that after the first debate. I don't see it after the second debate for Nikki Haley. But this one was worse for me. I just think that interrupting is a diminishing factor on the speaker.

And Tim Scott, it's not gender. I don't think this is about her being a woman because I think Tim Scott was worse at it than her last night. And Tim Scott diminished himself. For example, Tim Scott had a great challenge to the vague Grama Swami about his business dealings in China. And then he never let the vague squirm on the hook. or he never let Vivek answer the question. He kept interrupting going, I just want to know. I want to know.

It's just a question. He kept doing that, and you couldn't hear Vivek. You couldn't hear Tim Scott. And it made Tim Scott smaller the more he did that. And I thought Nikki was guilty of the same thing. It comes off as bickering and small, not strong and big. That's my takeaway from what happened Nikki Haley last night, Rachel. I think you're right on, like, I didn't like the comment when she said,

that, you know, listening to you makes me dumber. She made some comment like that. I thought that was silly. But I do think, look, I mean, she was the only woman on the stage, and I think she made her presence known. I thought she seemed really smart and informed on a lot of things. I don't agree with her on anything. I wouldn't.

I know. I know. Because I do think she's super establishment. The reason I think she's a winner is because I think the donor class is really disappointed in Ron DeSantis. They really had so much high hopes for him. And because he, I don't know, you know, he just can't connect with people. His retail politics are really bad.

And that's really important. I think, you know, both being, you know, on the campaign trail, but also in governing when you have to make deals. But he's just not able to close the deal in the way that he should be able to, with all the support he's gotten from very powerful people on the right. And I think the people who want someone other than Trump are very powerful people in this country. And they, you know, hope is always, you know, eternal for them, you know, springs eternal for them in the hopes of getting rid of Donald Trump. And I think they've put their new hope in Nikki Haley, you know, because she seemed, you know, she's a woman.

She shares their establishment views probably more authentically even than Ron DeSantis, who seems like he's caught between what he really thinks. and the donor money on Ukraine. I do think he probably leans closer to Donald Trump on that, but hasn't been able to articulate it because he needs that donor money, which also, to me, speaks to his character. Because I just think you should just say what you think and you can never feel bad about how it all ends when you do what you really think.

But it is right. But I think that she is winning the hearts of the donors. Do I think she's winning the hearts of the base? No. But I do think she's winning the hearts of donors and independence and liberal women. And the donors are looking at that very favorably. So, well, can I answer that question, too? I, I 100% agree with you. We share brain well. You get it from me, not for me. Maybe you two should get married.

Okay. Here's a couple points on this. So the first is there are two categories in politics. There is the Bush lane and there's the Donald Trump America first lane. And Nikki Haley falls under the George Bush, Neocomelaine, that might be 18 to 22% of the Republican primary voter, you're never going to get across that threshold, though, above 20%, where Ron DeSantis, he is an America first candidate. You're right. He's had some issues on Ukraine. But I think the donor, if we're talking with the donor class, they understand that.

They understand if you're smart, they understand the party's moved. And they might like her. They might think that she's, you know, got a better pathway against Trump than DeSantis. but if they really think about it, she's not going to get a ton more money because she can never win. It'll be Donald Trump or Ronda Santis that come through the primary. But I want to go back to what you said about it was really frustrating for me as well, when she kept interrupting. And at some point in the debate, there's all this cross-talk and they're all trying to fight

on who's going to be recognized. And I expect that to happen. But at one point, you've got to shut up. And whoever's getting the floor, you've got to let them speak. And you're right. She never let Vivek actually complete thoughts. And for me, it brings me back to liberals because liberals are trying to shut down conservative speech. It's not because they're confident in their own liberal ideology. It's because they're not confident. They can't have an argument. They can't have a debate with a conservative. So instead of debating, they silence you on social media. They try to demonize you into not speaking, you know, what you really believe. And she did the same thing last night. Be confident. Be strong. Let them speak and then come back and respond if you can. But just talking over them so no one hears anything. For me, that was a sign. And you said this as well. It was a sign of weakness. But also, it's even more grating because that's what the left is doing to conservatives right now. And really, for me, like, I think she's going nowhere. So let's depart from the debate for just one moment. Sean, you said you think 18 to 22 percent of the Republican electorate, primary

electorate, is still in that Bush neocon vein. I think that all three of us, being honest with the audience and with ourselves, are probably more in that populist America first lane. And we would all three acknowledge that we have had some movement in our own political ideologies over time. And I know that many of the things that I believe today would not be. be the things I would have believed 10 years ago. And I think we're all, yeah, and we all are honest about that. But I don't have an answer to my own question, so I'm asking you guys this,

you know, with genuine curiosity here. We also all think that Donald Trump stands apart from the field, that he is singular in many ways as a politician. And he has been the crystallizing factor of this populist direction and America First direction of the Republican Party. What I'm curious about is does that movement have energy outside of Donald Trump? What I mean by that is those that bet on that 18 to 22 percent or that bet on Nikki Haley or Tim Scott, are they right that without Donald Trump, that's where the Republican electorate and the Republican Party returns. Do you see what I mean? If Donald Trump weren't running for president, and maybe I don't want to use DeSantis because I think Rachel's right about DeSantis' own personality

limitations that may be impact to this debate. But there was another candidate representing America first. And I think Vivek has his own personality quirkiness as well that impacts this analysis. Yeah. But if there were a cardboard cutout of an America first candidate, right, um, voicing populist points of view, do you think they'd be polling at 60, 70%? It's actually something like, if you count Trump and DeSantis and Vivek 10. and Vivek together, it's like 80%, right? But if it were that cardboard cutout and not Vivek or DeSantis or Trump, do you still think they'd be polling at 80% or the Nikki Haley's and the Tim Scots

would return to defining republicanism? So to answer your question, well, and I think it's a really good one, I think that Donald Trump has changed the Republican Party, just like Ronald Reagan changed the Republican Party. And Reagan had an impact. He still has an impact today. We saw it last night. the idea, the philosophy, the viewpoint that Republicans have, go many of them back to Reagan.

And I think the party's changed. I mean, and again, we'll use Ron DeSantis winning with, you know, what by 50, what was it, was it, 20 points in Florida in the last election. And almost every candidate that's running for Congress, for governor, for Senate, for dog catcher, they've in some way been using the America first ideology and viewpoint to put their constituents, their people first. Not this globalism, you know, not the elite's ability to sell more goods, you know, into foreign markets. It's what's best for America and her people. And that's why I think this is going to be long-lasting, well beyond Donald Trump. And that's why you see it in campaigns all across the country that Donald Trump doesn't touch, that doesn't know about, but the ideas are there. And all across the world, I mean. Before you answer Rachel, do we agree that the Tea Party, do you think the Tea Party had a lasting effect? I think in many ways the Tea Party actually did have some lasting effects, but it's marginal.

It's on the edges. I see you shaking your head. Sean was elected by the Tea Party. Sean was elected in that Tea Party sweep that brought in, you know, 90-some Republicans. So, Rachel, what makes this different than the Tea Party? I'll let Sean answer that because I think he's closer to it. The Tea Party was really about, you know, debt, right? We're spending too much money.

We were what, at health care also. $15 trillion at debt at the time. health care, where $33 trillion in debt, we're spending massive amounts of money. The Republican Party is gearing up for a shutdown. They can't pass a bill that they agree on. And by the way, it's a very small majority, really hard to do. But they can't agree on what spending cuts they can all get around to go into a shutdown because Democrats won't agree with the Republican bill. But what can they go to a shutdown and argue to the American people that they're right cutting spending? The Tea Party's dead. And if a Tea Party was alive, that probably wouldn't have

they probably would be coalescing around a set of numbers. Health care, Obamacare is still alive, and it's really talked about it. It came up last night in the debate, but really they haven't gone after that. But these ideas, the ideas, again, I would have never said, let's build a wall before Donald Trump. We have to secure the border. I felt that, but I didn't feel like I could say that. Donald Trump let us all talk about an insecure border. That I'm a free trader, Will.

I don't believe that we should have tariffs in trade. But when Donald Trump says, yeah, but we don't have needs. tariffs and people sell goods into our market tariff-free, but when we try to sell into their market, they put tariffs on our goods. Is that really free trade? Let's treat them the same way they treat us. And I'm like, huh, that's actually probably pretty smart. We actually probably should do that. And so I think this is an earthquake shake in the party that states. Rachel? I'm sorry, I was. No, no, no. I'm so glad you laid it out that way. And of course, you're closer to it from having, you know, been a candidate during the Tea Party, you know, revolution.

So, first of all, I think Donald Trump's influence, and it's hard for us to appreciate it because as Americans were so, we just think about America, right? And that's sort of like the American mindset. But, you know, I grew up all over the world, I have a military brat. I have a lot of connections all over the world in that regard. And this is global. I mean, you see, you know, Miele is probably going to win in Argentina. Bolsonaro's impact, you know, he was ousted.

but, you know, he's a Brazil first person. You have Santiago Alaskar gaining ground in Spain. You have Hungary. You have other movements, and they are all, if you talk to those people, if you look at their social media, they're looking at Donald Trump. They call themselves the Donald Trump of Argentina or the Donald Trump of Spain or Brazil or wherever. And so this is a globalist reaction to this globalist movement.

And Donald Trump is the head of it, not just in America, but he's considered the face in the head of it globally. And so I think it's, you know, it's really fascinating when you get outside and look at his influence. He is the most famous man in the world, in the world right now. And Democrats are trying to decide who our candidate is. I mean, I get frustrated because, I mean, I work for this network. I love my network. They've been good to us. I'm glad we have this debate.

it's important to air out these ideas. But in many ways, the primary is over. And he, you know, everyone talks about the elephant that wasn't in the room. And that, of course, was Donald Trump. And we have a huge, we have a huge number of Republicans who are voting for him for these ideas. Some of it is revenge vote. Some people are, you know, are really still very angry about what happened in the 2020 election. They don't feel like it was on the up and up.

And it's obvious from the Hunter Biden laptop. that story alone would have changed the election in 2020. And then you have people who are just upset at what's happening right now, that the persecution of Donald Trump reminds them of the persecution of people who questioned that election in January 6th. It reminds them of all the different tiers of justice that we have, where we have, you know, if you're the president's son, you can have an illegal gun and you can have shell companies

and you can do all this kind of stuff. if you're if you're the right color and you're looting you're going to get away with it you know there's there's something very fundamental happening and I think this is a supporting Donald Trump is a a quiet way that you can protest without necessarily having to put a a Donald Trump hat on um you can tell a poll I really like the point about what's going on across I really like the point about what's going on across the globe it does suggest this isn't a flash in the pan moment that this is a much larger and longer lasting movement than just one figure, one guy in Donald Trump.

Let's go back to the debate, talk about a few other individuals. So I told Sean this after the last debate, like you, Rachel, I ran an informal poll last time in which I just scrolled across my Twitter. And even though Sean, and I know you did as well, Rachel, we spoke in retrospect, and I and Pete all really liked Vivek coming out of that first debate, there was something that I was noticing on my social media. I was like, hey, guys, I'm not sure everybody likes this as much as we do. And what I like about your analysis of Nikki, Rachel, is that you're saying, hey, I think she did well, but I'm not really into her. She does, you know, that, we're stepping

outside of what we like. It's like, okay, what do we think actually works with other people? And I just saw that. And I saw it again last night with Vivek on my feet. It's, there's a lot of people, he rubs the wrong way. And it's, maybe it's superficial stylistic stuff. But it is, you know, the words you hear are annoying. He addressed some of it last night. He clearly got that feedback because he brought up, I know I come off as a know-it-all, a little too ambitious. And then there's a disingenuous factor that I see a lot.

There's a lot of people go, I'm not sure I believe him on all these things. And I don't know if that's because he's almost too smart, you know, and has an answer for everything. And he's, you know, or super eloquent. Sometimes I think a lack of eloquence. It's like I think Donald Trump's sort of, you know, herky-jurkey style of speaking resonates with people who aren't polished. So I don't know what it is about Vivek, but it rubs some people the wrong way.

Did you like him on the second debate? I mean, take away what's in your social media feed. I like them better debate one than debate two. How did you feel? I feel like it needed to be somewhere between the two because this was too obviously a pivot and then also felt, therefore, a little disingenuous, you know. He's so good on a podcast or in an interview in a one-on-one. There's something about this he hasn't found.

I don't think he's found his footing on how to do this. So I like ideas, right? And I think he presents the idea with confidence. Again, he's very eloquent. He's well-spoken. But he's using the right words. He is saying things that touch me as a conservative who's in this fight, who's talking about real solutions to the problems that we face.

And I'm like, this guy's got it. But here's what I think is the real issue. We all come at this with a little bit of age. And at 36 years old, 37 years old, however, he isn't as mid-30s, I think there's, you come across sometimes maybe as a snot-nosed bratty kid, as opposed to a well-thought-out statesman. And it's just the age problem that he has that's not allowing people to take the words with the gravity and then take him.

seriously. Yeah, I think that's, I think that's it, Sean. I really do. He is saying the right stuff. I mean, I like, you know, when he says, you know, I'm going to, you know, eliminate the Department of Education, or I'm going to defund the FBI and the DOJ because they're, you know, weaponizing it against conservative, they're weaponizing the agencies against conservatives. I like hearing that. And I think he's really smart. But I think to your point, in the last debate, when Chris Christie had that zinger, you know, this guy says, sounds like chat gp t that also kind of rang a little true because i think the feeling i get with him is i like i love everything he has to say just like sean i i really like and and and love

vivake ramswami and yet there's a little piece of me that doesn't trust him and then that's when micky haley got in in this debate and started to touch those buttons and made me remind myself that there's something about him that i'm not sure about and it could just be that he's been he's so new. He's so new on the stage. We don't know how he's going to be. And then that brings you right back to Donald Trump, who is so tested in every way, shape, or form. You cannot throw anything at this man at this point that you know he can't handle. And as a conservative who has seen, you know, Republicans for the last 20 years that I've been, you know, following politics, you know, frumple like a cheap suit at, you know, and get all weak and meek when the Democrats say anything

like, you know, we're on women. And then they all are free. freaking out, oh, they're the war on women and binders of women. And that's the kind of thing that Donald Trump just like swats away. And that's kind of, I think, the toughness and the testedness of Donald Trump that so many conservatives like. Well, I like how you said as well, Sean. I like ideas. And Vivek is a man of ideas. I do like that and respect that a lot. Did you say you had one more thing on Vivek you wanted to say? Yeah, but yeah, but yeah, just, I don't know on Donald Trump. And what's interesting, we talk about this a lot is when, when, when someone doesn't really prepare, and Donald Trump doesn't prepare.

Famously for debates, did not prepare. I know, I know. And so a question might come, and he might know what he thinks about an answer, but a lot of times he might not have thought about the answer. And so he goes with his gut and what he, so he'll answer questions and give you his gut feeling on it. And oftentimes his gut was right, and he was funny when he said it. And we all appreciate it.

It's like, this guy didn't dance for me. He wasn't tap dancing and trying to get away from it. He looked straight at the camera and drove right through it, which is what you want. And by the way, that's what got him into trouble when he debated Joe Biden in that first debate. He didn't prepare. And he came, by the way, he also interrupted Joe Biden in that first debate. And it was really unlikable. People, I didn't like it.

Yeah, I didn't. I mean, let him speak. Have a debate. So Nikki Haley and the first debate for Donald Trump, same feeling for me. That's interesting. Okay. So here, let's do this. I'll let you respond to this one candidate and I want to hear your rankings as well. So if we can do this. So you saw, Sean, that I believe Doug Bergam was second, basically, one of the two top performers, but I think he's second. I think the top performer last night was Ron DeSantis. I think this was a big night for Ron DeSantis. That doesn't mean that I think his poll numbers are going to change drastically. By the way, I'm setting aside Donald Trump. I think it's all going to remain the same. I think he's going to pull at 60% before and after this debate. So I'm just talking about who was on the stage. I think DeSantis did what I would have expected him to do in the first debate.

I saw somebody right. He did well because the expectations were so low in this one. And in the first one, the expectations were high. Maybe. Maybe so. Because I still don't think that he was, I still don't think that he was necessarily head and shoulders above everybody last night. But I do think he was number one. He found confidence on the hoax thing. He found moments like on the big, when he said, I've had the big fights and had the big wins in Florida. I liked at the end when he rejected Dana Perino's question about right. I don't know if she was serious or not. I'll have to ask Dana on vote somebody off the island. He goes, I'm not doing that. I'm not doing that, which I think was the right choice. Don't do that. Yeah. Yeah. And he did

it first. I just think in this time, he seemed confident, a little more authentic to who he is. and it was his night, and he won it in my estimation. What do you guys think about Ronda Santis and who, if not Rond Santis, you thought, won? Remember in the first debate when Rond DeSantis kind of looked both ways and then kind of sheepishly raised his hand? I forget what the question was. It was Donald Trump, I think. Yeah. No, I think it was a Ukraine.

Oh, pardon Donald Trump, yes. Maybe it was part of Donald Trump. Yeah, I mean, that was such a, like, yucky moment for me. I didn't like that. I think you're right. He came out probably. I still think that he came out. Number one in terms of in that field, again, let's take Trump out, in that field, he came out

one probably with the viewers, but with the donors, which is important to keep your campaign going on, I think Nikki Haley won the hearts of donors. She already kind of had their heart. They thought they could go with Ron. I think they're giving up on Ron. That's my sense. and they have really high hopes for Nikki Haley because the donors and many of the establishment analysts, if you will, and pundits like to think ahead at the general. They really want to get to the general

and go, she's the one that can win independent. She's the one that can win women. I always believe you've got to win the race you're in. And in the primary, I don't think she has the heart of the party. So if I can answer, I disagree a little bit with both of you. I think that Ron DeSantis did well last night. And so I do think he's going to get more donors to come back to him. He's going to keep his campaign alive because he does have that life. And he showed that in the debate last night where, again, I think Nikki Haley is just

so outside of the mainstream of the party right now that it's not going to work for. She's still going to have money. She has a streamlined campaign, but it's not going to, I think, make a difference. we always hear people talk about before the debate, who is going to have that breakout moment? Who's going to break out? Who's going to have that the one line or the answer that people are going to love? And for me, I can't take Trump out, right? Because Trump is at 60 percent. He might even grow more after this debate. So was anyone able to break out and challenge Trump last night? Not at all. So in that respect, I don't think it was a big night for Ronda Santos. His campaign goes on. he's not going away

and I don't know I can't give you a real answer as to why I feel this way will but I wouldn't have said this after the last debate if you said if not Trump then who? Who is your guy? And I'm like I thought I think I might have said Vivek. And after this debate

I'm like if not Trump then who well I think I'd be at Ronda Santos because it was the experience that he laid on me last night and I know that in my heart what he's done I know how hard the fights have been that he's been in. I know how much he's pushed back against the media that have come

for his jugular. And I like that. And he laid that out, and he showed strengths, again, with Dana Perino not answering the question and leading on that. And with the Latina Univision host as well, kind of going, I'm not going to take the premise of your question like that.

And that would have been his breakout moment. That would have been the moment that would have elevated him. So, you know, I agree with you. He did, he won last night. And I can't really put my finger on why I feel that way. I think that's a great point, what you just said, but also I think in this whole process, it's been interesting again to see the power of retail politics, a personality, that he really is that package that conservatives say they want, and yet because he cannot

connect with people. And it's something that, you know, this businessman from New York who, you know, lives in a tower with gold faucets, connects better with, you know, guys. on the factory floor, you know what I mean? It's just unbelievable. And I've seen the guy in action. I've seen him in rural Wisconsin. He doesn't pretend to be someone he is and he doesn't put on a flannel shirt so he can hang out at the farm. He's in a black suit, you know, when he shows up. He's always himself. And again, I'll go back to what we said in the very beginning. That kind of confidence, the only other person in this entire race who owns that kind of confidence is Gavin Newsom.

We'll be right back with more of the Will Cain podcast. This is Jimmy Phala, inviting you to join me for Fox Across America, where we'll discuss every single one of the Democrats' dumb ideas. Just kidding. It's only a three-hour show. Listen live at noon Eastern or get the podcast at Fox Across America.com. Rachel, do you think anybody drops out before the next debate? Will this field winnow? Well, did Aza Hutchinson drop out?

That's a good point. I don't even know. I don't know. Well, he didn't make the threshold. He didn't make the threshold. So I think that I hate to see Bergam go because I think that they're that I just want, I don't think he has any hope in this race, but I think that he's a really smart guy and I hope he just gets a little bit of more attention. I think probably, I think Tim Scott. I mean, I just don't think he's got what it takes.

He's got a lot of money to stick around. Sean, I want to ask you that same question. Last night they said over, Jason Chavit said over $20 million. I knew at one point he was one of the big money raisers among the whole field. Sean don't ask you the same the same question. Who do you think if any goes, Nick? No, no, no, no. Actually, I did.

I did. I was not cheating. I was not cheating. I actually, I forgot about my kids. And actually, he's the one. I'm sorry. She stole your notes? Do you not believe that I would throw out Mike Pence before? Until you look at my nose.

Well, no, but just you know me. I would throw out Mike Pence. I would have thought that last time. So, Sean, she gets credit for it, Sean, because you know her. So that's the point. It doesn't matter. didn't say it, and you wrote it down. She was thinking it and feeling it, and you know that's true about her,

so she wins and you lose, Sean. I'm like, okay, great point I'll make pants. So that's why we're married so long. That's a secret to his own marriage. Doug Bergam, he's a rich dude. He's not going anywhere. He's a self-funder. So he can stay in a long time, and as long as his numbers, you know,

still meet the R&C threshold, he can make the debate stage. He's going to stay in. I actually, I disagree- Does Vee-C have his money to stay in? Yeah, Vivek has his own money so he can stay in as well. Enough to stay in? He's doing well enough in, you know, in the conversation that he should stay. I didn't mind Tim Scott last night. You know, there were some interruptions, but compared to the first debate,

Tim was like, the guy didn't show up. Like, I'm like, is Tim Scott on the debate stage? Last night, he actually had some passion and some energy. And yes, he interrupted. But the bar was so low for Tim Scott. and I thought he actually came and again brought the fire

so I liked him more last night so I don't think Tim goes anywhere and the point that you both made on money that's real I do think Mike Pence again and I like Mike Pence as a person right he's a great conservative but the line about

you mentioned this last night about about I've slept with a teacher for 38 years and I think you guys mentioned the slow talk and the breathing into the microphone I'm like, oh, my God. I mean, he was killing.

We're calling that the hot for teacher moment. And the energy. And so I do think there's a chance that Mike Pence, I don't know how much money he has, but he would be my bet or Chris Christie. One of the two of them get out from the cast. Of course, those Chris Christie and Mike Pence have to go. I'll take Tim Scott any day over those two.

I so agree with you. You were thinking. You're supposed to be. You're sorry, Rachel. Yeah. Yeah. thinking it. He was thinking it, so he gets credit for it. Yeah. Who do you think, well, who do you think it's out? The thing on Bergam and Vivek is if you're self-funded, the one thing everyone

knows is nobody likes to lose money, billionaires least of all. So you say, what's in it for me in continuing? And I think Vivek has a public profile career ahead of him that can benefit from sticking in the race. So he can continue to spend money and see the back end of that. I don't know what Bergam's back end is, right? So how long do you self-fund? and you ask yourself for what, right? He's probably not going to surprise in Iowa. So is a cabinet position worth burning all those millions? I don't know what Bergam is end payoff is.

I think Christy and Pence, though, have a role in this thing that others will want for them, meaning people want those two guys to attack Trump. They want them to represent the negative towards Trump. So I don't know how much money is going to stay behind that. But I don't see Chris Christie going away, his mission remains the same. You both have said it. His mission isn't to actually get the nomination.

It's to disrupt Donald Trump, and the mission remains. So I have trouble seeing how they drop out. Everybody's still, if Tim Scott didn't have money, I would say Tim Scott, but he's got money to stick around for longer. Remember when Dana Perino said, if you all stay in, Donald Trump wins. And here's also, you make a good point, Will. And so if you don't want Donald Trump, you might want Vivek or you might want Nicky and you have enough money to play this game, you would actually donate to Chris Christie and maybe to Mike Pence and let them be the pit bulls on Trump and give some more breathing room to a Nikki Haley. And so you're right, they could continue the cash game that allows them to stay in.

Who's funding Chris Christie? There are rich people. There are rich people. But are they on the left or are it like the Lincoln? the Lincoln people, whatever they're those, is it liberals? You're right. Millionaires and billionaires hate to lose money,

but they hate to lose as well. And if they're going to run for president, they think they're really special and they should have the presidency. And to give up that dream when you've already invested, what, five, ten, 15 million of your own money?

What's another 10 will? What's another eight? If I've got, you know, 150 more and I can never spend it all anyway. And so I do think it's, if they feel like there's a chance, they're going to keep spending cash. Or until their kids are like, hey, dad, don't stop spending my inheritance. All right.

This is only going to go 20 or 30 minutes. I think we went almost an hour, which I've loved and I've appreciated it. And just so that I remain in good standing the next time I'm on the weekends. Rachel, you're exactly right on everything. I wholly heartedly agree. And we share a brain. I'm so bad. I love it. You guys do share it.

So bad. It's super, super, super fun doing this with you. Thanks for having us on, Will. Love the Wolfgang Podcast. Thank you. There you go. I hope you enjoyed that conversation with the Duffies. You can email in Wilcamepodcast at Fox.com and let me know who you thought won or lost that debate.

You can ask me any question. Maybe we'll start doing a Q&A, a little back and forth with me and the audience. All right, that'll do it for me today. I will see you again next time. Listen to ad-free with a Fox News podcast plus subscription on Apple Podcast. And Amazon Prime members, you can listen to this show, ad-free on the Amazon Music app. Hey, I'm Trey Gowdy host of the Trey Gatti podcast.

I hope you will join me every Tuesday and Thursday as we navigate life together and hopefully find ourselves a little bit better on the other side. Listen and follow now at Fox News Podcast.com. Thank you.