Wiretap - No Man is an Island

Episode Date: June 22, 2020

Howard turns his apartment into a micro-nation: the first country with wall-to-wall carpeting. Plus, Gregor makes Jonathan a personalized mix-tape to help him seduce the ladies.

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You're listening to Wiretap with Jonathan Goldstein. Today's episode, No Man is an Island. Thursday, I'm at a local bookstore doing a reading. When it's over, I mill around. I fall asleep listening to your radio show, a woman says, approaching me. And in case the point's been lost, she adds, your voice it puts me to sleep people come up to me either asking me to sign their books or sharing with me their thoughts their ruthlessly brutal thoughts you have a face for radio another woman gleefully tells

me when i try to change the subject asking her if she has a book she'd like me to sign she tells me no that she's waiting to buy a used copy then a man comes up to you me and tells me he enjoys yelling at the radio when I'm on it. You always sound so sad complaining about your problems, he says. Cheer up already. The main difference between talking to the radio and talking to the person on the radio is that the person has feelings, feelings that will keep him up at night. The person on the radio will stay up worrying about the next time he'll have to appear in

public and be exposed to the casual cruelty of well-meaning strangers. Friday, 8 a.m. I awake, reluctant to go back out into the world where merely being in public can feel like sitting on one of those carnival dunking chairs, alone in a wet bathing suit and waiting to be plopped into the water for no other reason than that you are there. within shooting distance. But alas, I have to get to work for an interview at 10.

I'll be speaking with Patry Friedman, former Google Software Engineer and grandson of Nobel Prize-winning economist Milton Friedman. Hi, Patry Friedman. We'll be talking about Patry's latest project, something called the Seesteading Institute, which aims to create hundreds of self-governed countries, actual autonomous nations on man-made islands in the ocean.

Patrick believes the ocean is the next frontier for human settlement. Cities on the ocean could actually be reshuffled in this kind of dynamic way where if I didn't like how things were going in my local government, I could take my house or my office or my factory and actually tug it over to some different ocean city. So when people and factories and offices are that mobile, then governments will have to do a good job of serving their customers. Otherwise, the customers will leave. And, I mean, this isn't just a matter of,

you know, floating out into international waters so you could have monkey fights and whatnot. There's certain kinds of societies that you're envisioning testing on these island structures, right? That's right. I mean, one of the things we're about is not that we think we have some specific vision of a better society, but we think a world in which many small groups can go try out their own visions of a better society so we can see whether any of them actually work would be a better world. I mean, a lot of people seem to assume that a social democracy is the best you can do, and we don't think it is. Winston Churchill said democracy was the word's form of government except for all others which have been tried,

and a lot of people seem to view that as the end of the story, and we believe that that's just the beginning of the story. And what do you, I mean, give me a little taste here. I mean, what are you imagining? Well, personally, I'm a libertarian, so I'd like to see a country with a lot less rules and regulations that operates on the principle of, non-aggression that says that it's not okay to use force on people, even if it's for their own good or someone else is good. I mean, I understand that a lot of people like the basis for our current societies and it fits their ideas of justice and sense of morality, but it doesn't fit mine, and I hate it. I hate, you know, waking up every day and going out

in a society that is based on different moral principles than I have, and I just want to live in the way that I consider moral openly among people who share my sense of justice and what a society should be like. And do you expect to be living on one of these islands within your lifetime? I don't know if I'd say expect. I'd say hope. I mean, I think that the odds are against de-steading working. I mean, waves are big, powerful things. The surface of the ocean is always moving. It's like trying to base your building on a continuous earthquake. So I see it as a long shot, but a long shot that if it works will dramatically change the world for the better, is the one that's worth taking.

And I mean, if it were never to come about in your lifetime, do you think you could be happy? I don't know. I think if it didn't work out, I would turn to some other way of accomplishing the same thing. Maybe space. Space? Space has all the same characteristics that I think will be. make for more competition between governments. It's big

and open and unclaimed and you can move huge things around and rearrange them even more cheaply and easily than on the oceans. Now you're really starting to blow my mind. Space is next. The ocean is practiced.

Well, thanks for talking to me, Patry. You're welcome. Hello. Jonathan Goldstein, radio star. Hi, Howard. I just heard you on the radio. Well, I have a radio show, Howard. Super interesting segment there about making your own country.

You listened to that. I just thought that was really stupendous. When I've asked you to listen to my radio show before, you've told me that you couldn't because you don't even own a radio. You said that stuff's for poor people who can't afford a TV. Well, funny story. I was getting ready for a garage sale, and I know your place is full of junk. And I went by your house.

And there it was, this nice radio. I grabbed that. Wait a second. You're talking about my 1937 Australian A-W-A-Fisk tombstone. Kind of an old piece of garbage kind of looked like to me. Howard, that thing was given to me as a prize at an Australian radio conference. That's like a $1,000 radio. That old box?

Okay, look, Howard, don't even touch it. I'm coming over to your house right now to get it. I'm touching it right now as I'm talking to you. No, Howard. I'm trying to put the knob back on. Okay, Howard, don't touch it anymore. I'm coming right over, all right? All right.

Make sure you bring your passport, by the way. Excuse me? I'm founding my own country. I listened to that guy that was on the show. I was riveted while I was sitting there. I'm really good to take his advice. What do you? What's kind of kicking the pants I need?

Okay, Howard, I think you might have misheard, all right? No, no, no, no. He was not suggesting you, Howard Chakwitz, make your own... He was saying, go make your own country. Everyone, you, you, you, get up, get out of your chair, found your own country. And that's what I'm going to do. Okay, no, Howard. I don't think you're equipped to make your own country.

This is a man who, you know, has college degrees, and, you know, he's engaging in a social experiment. Oh, I see. Of course. What does the working man who's got dirtender's nails know of building a country? Nothing. No, you know what? Let's leave the country building to all the people with degrees because they know what people need, right, John? Okay.

Howard, who's going to be in this country of yours? Me. And? Me. It's a country of one. My country. One planet, one world. Howardville.

Howardville Howardville Like Margaritaville But with Howard Right I have a strong vision of tomorrow What is that? What is your vision of tomorrow?

Tomorrow? Yeah Well nothing really Tomorrow's a holiday Just taking it easy tomorrow In Howardville But you know soon we'd like to join the UN So let me get this

Your country would extend What the limits of your apartment That'll be my country Yeah Imagine a whole country Carpeted wall to wall Okay and what would be the current of this country?

I'm thinking Star Trek figurines or bacon. Bacon, uh-huh. Another economic incentive would be like, you know, it's rotting in your wallet. You've got to get rid of that bacon, keep that bacon moving. And citizens of Howardville would have full access to all public institutions.

Which are? Things like national health care. I'd have that. And what would that be? My medicine cabinet. I have band-aids and peroxide. We have a great transportation system. I mean, you can really walk from one side of the country to the other in about 14 states.

Yeah. I've also kind of designed a flag. Oh, that would be key. Yeah, no, I agree. I was even halfway through the interview, and I got so inspired. I just started ripping the sheets off my bed. I was just, like, sewing and hammering and stapling. I felt like a modern-day Betsy Ross.

So what is on this flag? Well, it's going to be Scooby-Doo because there's Scooby-Doo bed sheets. Your national flag is going to be Scooby-Doo. Scooby-Doo bed sheets. Yeah. Okay, Howard, I'm going to let you get back to your... Hey, John, not I have you on the phone. Uh-huh.

to Howardville for our first ever Independence Day Celebration. Independence from what, Howard? Reality? The traditional festivities involve watching wrestling on television and consuming the national dish. Which is? It's my own kind of concoction. It's the teaky cake. It's basically a pureade, suvacchi that's then baked. But, Howard, you've always said that, you know, you were a proud Canadian.

What's happening to that? I mean, don't get me wrong. I want to keep strong relations with Canada. Oh, do you? I don't side of the borders of Haraldville is Canada. but it's just not me literally it is not me but I can make a country that is me Howardville Howard that's not the point of having a country

is to grow a population you know to create a society and not to just have one guy who wants to get out of bed whenever he feels like it and wants to make pants optional well you know I'm for me creating my own country it wasn't so much about trying to grow a population but more for the idea of getting to compose

my own national anthem That's why you wanted to start your own country Yeah, that was a big draw for me You know, and I feel the time has come For there to be, like, a rap national anthem I'm from my roots as a hip-hop artist MC Hummer Right

I mean, I had some ideas I don't know if you want to hear a little bit of that All right, Howard, let's hear your anthem Give me a little beatbox there I have to give you beatbox, I don't do beatbox, Howard Come on, do a little beatbox It's a national anthem You have to sing it together

You know, I figure half the crowd will be like human beatboxing, the other half will be rapping. It's kind of like something that will bring citizens of Howardville together. All right, okay. You ready? Yeah. Doom. Howardville, the place to fill.

Come and chill. And Howardville. Sit still. No hills. No bills. Howardville. Want to eat. Take his seat.

Blackie. Sacking. Blackie to batting. Blackie to batting. The bill of Howard. Monday, July 15th. While Howardville is holding steady at a population of one, Nation Goldstein is now officially one citizen bigger.

My sister is just at a baby, and we all meet up at her hospital room. I've never been in a room where so many members of my family, are so happy all at once. Usually, maybe one or two are happy at any given time, while the rest hold down the fort, remaining dyspeptic, dysphoric, or boldly struggling to maintain a nice, even level of dispiritedness. Tolstoy once wrote that every unhappy family is unhappy in its own unique way,

but that happy families are all alike. This is not so, as is evidenced by my father, who is smilingly biting into a home-bought chicken, and sandwich while seated atop an upturned waste paper basket, and my mother, who is rubbing disinfectant soap onto her lips in preparation of kissing the newborn. We all stand around for hours, happily staring at the baby and clutching our chest. How strange to feel yourself falling in love with someone you've only just met, and how endlessly fascinating it is to watch someone getting used.

to being alive. Though perhaps even more fascinating, we'll be watching someone get used to becoming a member of our family. Tuesday, July 23rd. It's the day of my nephew Justin's Briss. It's only 5.30 a.m., but I'm very anxious about the whole thing

and can't sleep. After the last Briss I attended, it was days before I could pry my hand, out of my pocket. I decide to just get out of bed and make my way over to the synagogue. I'm the first guest to arrive, and so I hang out with the moyle. As he prepares his tools, we make small talk, and at a certain point he tells me why he got into moiling in the first place. But before he can get very far, and with my heart racing, because I know it might very well be the only time I'll ever get the chance to use this line on an actual moyle, I blurt out

for the tips the moyle doesn't laugh which doesn't make sense to me the context is perfect and my timing impeccable i conclude that to be a good moyle you must always be on guard against the peril of shaking with laughter sunday october eleventh it's thanksgiving weekend and when i show up at the greek restaurant my family is already there, seated at the table. We sit there, not really talking, just sort of staring at Justin, who is now three months old. We constantly worry for his comfort and safety, and so every time he shifts in his baby seat, we clutch our hearts and mop the sweat from our brows with fistfuls of napkin. I love him so much, it hurts, my sister says, her hand on her mouth. Me too, my father says. It actually physically hurts. It's like someone is beating me with

sandbags, my mother says. With me, it's more of a stabbing, my father counters. I love him so much, my aunt says. It's like having a serrated blade corkscrewed into my side. Not one to be outdone. My sister weighs in. I love him so much. I feel like I'm drowning in love and can't breathe. She demonstrates the sensation by making gagging and gasping noises while scratching at the air. As we eat, my father accidentally tips a plate of olive oil onto his lap. Pretty soon afterwards, my aunt somehow manages to drip the wax from the candelabra onto her pants, and when I look over at my mother, she is wearing a bib of smeared Siddiqui

sauce across the chest of her black turtleneck. Ironically, it is the baby who proves to be the neatest eater among us. Truly, it feels like Justin is the best of us all. I look over at him and he smiles a little smile at me that fills my heart with so much love. It's as though I have had my eyes sprayed with acid and my heart stabbed with a salad fork. I reach across the table for another soothing spoonful of taramousalata, and as I do, I drag my jacket sleeve through a puddle of spilled gravy. It feels like the final brush stroke to a happy family portrait.

If you're absolutely loving your summer read and don't want the book to be over, your experience doesn't actually have to end when you finish reading. I'm Matea Roach, and on my podcast bookends, I sit down with authors to get the inside scoop behind the books you love. Like, why Emma Donoghue is so fascinated by trains? or how Taylor Jenkins-Reed feels about being a celebrity author. You can check out bookends with Mateo Roach wherever you get your podcasts. No, nothing's the matter. I'm just calling to say hi. Oh, you made me nervous, John. How did, just calling you up on the telephone makes you nervous?

I don't know. Everything okay, sweetie. Yeah, yeah, everything's good. I wanted to ask you something. Yeah. Is Dad around? I figure I can ask both you at the same time. Pick up the phone!

It's Johnny! Hello? Hey, Dad. Hi, Johnny. How are you doing? You can't complain. It's good. Things are good.

Yeah? Yeah. You know, I haven't actually asked you guys this. I just wanted to know how it feels to be grandparents. Oh, it feels wonderful, Johnny. Oh, my God. It's a wonderful feeling. It's a very intense feeling.

Yeah? When I have him on my arms, I smell his head. I kiss him. You know, it's just... It's like when you're in love the first time. In love, right. It's like falling in love. I'm like puppy love.

It hurts. It's almost painful, Johnny. Yeah. It's painful. And I realize now how much my grandparents loved me. When I was a child, I felt very well loved. Now I realized just how much I was loved.

And, Dad, do you think about your grandparents? You know what, Johnny? My grandmother, who lived with us, I used to, you know, I didn't, I didn't respect her the way I should have. Now, when it's too late, now I sit here at age almost 75, I respect her, you know? You wish you could live your life over, but you can't. This is sort of like a second chance. How do you mean? To do things right, you know?

To do what we didn't do for our own children, to try to be different emotionally and in terms of relationships and in terms of behavior. Do you feel like it's changed? I mean, because I sort of feel like it's changed you guys. You both have become happier than I. I think I've ever seen you. Yeah, we're happy.

Yeah. Is that weird? Is that strange? It's such a love. Can we call it an epiphany? I guess the only way I could describe it, Johnny. Like a blind and light. It's something that wakes you up, something that...

It's an appreciation. There are a lot of things that's the only way that I could describe these things. Has it changed how you relate to Dad? Well, we're closer now. Yeah, we're closer now. We both have the same goals. We don't argue as much like... You know, we share the same.

feelings. I could say to your mother, how do you feel now? Do you understand the ache that I have? Yes, I do, because I ache, too, when I don't see him. You know, you know, when you're young and you're waiting for your boyfriend to call you? That's how I feel till I see Justin. Oh, God, I love him so much. So, so which of you guys would you say, you know, loves the baby most? I think I do, Johnny. I think I do. No, I do. No, I do. I do. I do. No, no, I do. I do. I love him.

I love him. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I love him. Well, I love him, too. I love him, too. I love him, too. I love him too. I was a dinner at your apartment last night.

It was a disaster. Why, you didn't serve fish chunks, did you? It was supposed to be a nice, intimate soire of fellow coworkers at the station, and it turned into a, it turned into a very uncomfortable affair. What are you talking about an intimate sororay? I thought you said you're going to have a date. No, I never said I was going to, you know, and that probably explains the very inappropriate mixtape that you made for me. You told me you had your first date in months, and I said, I'll make you a mixtape. Are you claiming you have no memory of this conversation?

No, I have no music in my house. What kind of a mixtape is that? You know, I went into the kitchen to finish basting the roast, and when I came back out, everyone was putting on their coats and making excuses about having to leave. I don't know what you're talking about. It was all great music. You don't know what I'm talking about.

No. You don't know what I'm talking about. I just said, no. You know, listen to this. Hang on a second. Hello there, pretty lady. You're with Johnny now. Doesn't that make you feel pretty?

Being with gentle Johnny? And Johnny knows how to be gentle with you. You are one lucky lady. One fine lucky lady. And luck will be a lady tonight. Lucky Johnny's lady. You still don't know what I'm talking about. What's the problem? I love that song.

What's the problem? Gregor, do you hear yourself? First of all, I was talking to your date. And second of all, that was subliminal messaging. So I don't even know what you're talking about because you're not even supposed to listen to that. It's supposed to be subliminal. It's talking directly to your unconscious. Or in this case, the unconscious of your imaginary date. Who, you didn't even have.

It wasn't supposed to have, Gregor. Look, Johnny, I don't know what kind of cockamamie home stereo you have, but on a real home stereo, the mix was fine. I played it here. You could hardly hear my voice over. The mix was fine. Yeah, the mix was fine. The mix was fine. You listen to this.

It gets worse. Mmm, you're in Johnny's house now. Smooth-talking Johnny. Johnny who moved in like a viper and separated you from your friends at the bar. Not because you're drunker than the rest. Don't be ridiculous. It's because you're so extra pretty.

That's how smooth Johnny works. Like a smooth person who smoothly... I think it creates a mood of sensuality. Furthermore, the only reason I put this thing, together was to help you. Look, your sister just had a baby. Now look at your sister and look at you. One's got a beautiful baby boy and one's got an overflowing kitty litter box and they don't even have a cat anymore as far as I can tell. All right. Which one you want to be? Do you want a filthy kitty litter box to rock to sleep at night and pretend it's your baby or do

want a real human baby? I listened to this after they left and I was horrified. I mean, how am I going to show my face at work after this? If anything, people are going to have more respect for you because they're going to realize you're a lover man. Hey, they're going to respect this? For another glass of wine? Go ahead. Have another. Have two. If you drink enough, you might forget this ever happened. That way you won't hate yourself tomorrow, and every day, for the rest of your life. And by the way, did you tell a friend where you were going?

Maybe now's a good time to let someone know, just in case something bad happens to you. Like I'm thinking tetanus from that dirty glass you're drinking out of it. You know what that sounds like to me? That sounds like a friend trying to help another desperate friend who passed help. You were purposely trying to sabotage my evening. You should never let anybody into your house. I told you that a hundred times. I was trying to protect you.

So my evening was ruined by no fault of your own. Let me explain something to you, okay? It's a concept called false correlation. You're crazy, so you can't see the simple plain truth, which is that whatever tape you put on, Green Day or Rachmaninov, it makes no difference at all. So this made no difference at all. Now take a deep breath of Johnny's seductive aroma.

You smell that? No, not that. That's the smell of cats. Johnny's cats. Actually, if you want to be fussy, it's the smell of the litter box that the cats use. I tell Smooth Johnny to clean it out more often, but does he listen? Of course not. That's because he's impossible. He'd probably even let you pay for the cab right over, didn't he? What's the matter with you, Johnny? Stupid smooth Johnny. Gregor, when I came out of the kitchen, the only person who was still there was this 55-year-old bachelor technician guy named Russell, who has pictures of his hamsters all over his cubicle.

and he wouldn't leave. You know what I do if I'm having a dinner party and it's time for people to go home and they don't get the message? What? I show them the slides from the vacation you took to the Northland Antique Radio Convention in Plymouth, Minnesota.

And you know what always, the last picture that people see before they run screaming out the door? What? Is that one of you pretending to be a human antenna? That's the one. So do yourself a favor. The next time you have a dinner party,

you have me there. I can entertain them while they're there, and when you want them out the door, I'll get them out the door. I know how to move a crowd. Wait a second. Is that what this is about? Is that what's about?

You're angry that I didn't invite you to my dinner party, and so you decided to ruin it. Okay, you know what you are? You're insane. I didn't think it was going to be something that would interest you. It was just for coworkers. Nothing to be ashamed of. It's an illness. You wanted to come to my house. You were about 10 minutes out of being tackled by guys with a giant butterfly net and wrapped up in a straight jacket. Because you weren't invited to come to my house.

You decided that you were going to ruin the entire evening for me. Do you know how many dinner parties I had that I didn't make it to because I was busy going to other dinner parties last night? You wanted to come to my dinner party. I couldn't have made it because I had like a dinner party. So many on the list ahead of you of other dinner portions. On Wiretap today, you heard Patry Friedman of the Seasteading Institute. You also heard Howard Chakowitz, Buzz and Dina Goldstein, and Gregor Ehrlich. Wiretap is produced by Jonathan Goldstein, with Mira Birdwindonik and Crystal Duhame.

For more CBC podcasts, go to cBC.ca.ca slash podcasts.