Wiretap - Radical Honesty

Episode Date: June 22, 2020

Starlee Kine recounts her experience with a self-help movement that promotes telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Plus, Howard discovers Radical Honesty... and Jonathan pays the price.

My group chat thinks I'm the smart one, but I have a cheat code. I take 10 minutes each morning and listen to World Report. Knowing what's happening in the world helps me feel connected and make better informed decisions. But endless doom scrolling is not my idea of fun. So I just listen to World Report on my commute, get informed, and get on with my day. World Report, the day's top stories in 10 minutes, wherever you get your podcasts. is a CBC podcast. You're listening to Wiretap with Jonathan Goldstein on CBC Radio 1.

Today's episode, Radical Honesty. You know about the book I'm writing, right? Yeah, I know it's sort of the bane of your existence. I hate it. I mean, you know, it's about the self-help industry, right? And the whole, like, original idea was that I was going to just go to some self-help workshops and seminars that would each specifically address my problems, which, quite frankly, are numerous.

There's a lot of them. And what's happened in the course of my writing this book is that not only have these places failed to fix my problems, but now the writing of the book itself has become my biggest problem. Like, it is just killing me, writing this book. And now when I go to self-help places, all I do is talk about not being able to write my book. It just trumped all other problems I had before.

And I really truly feel that the self-help industry is out to destroy me. I had this boyfriend that started dating when I started writing my book, right? And he turned out to totally secretly love these self-help books. And do you know the book, The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle? No. My ex-boyfriend really loved this book. He'd wake up in the morning and then go and find like a shaft of sunlight coming through the window.

And I was always really confused. Like no matter where the shaft of sunlight was coming, he would come and say, it underneath the shaft of sunlight, like a cat. He'd chase the sunlight. And then when I eventually read the power of now, I realized that there's a part in this book that tells you to, like, wake up and appreciate every day new and, like, actually find a shaft of sunlight to fit in.

So he was following the instructions of this book. And then, like, a few months later, he used the book to break up with me. How did he do that? The thing is, we had been hanging out, having good time, we watched a movie, and then that night he broke up with me, and I pointed out to him, you know, I don't know. We were so happy, like, two hours ago, and he told me that I had to live in the moment more. I shouldn't dwell in the past so much.

And then also, I've never actually, I don't know if you know this, Jonathan, but I've never broken up with anybody, like, I've always been dumped or broken up with, and it's, like, beginning to be really disturbing, actually. And so when this boyfriend was breaking up with me, I was just really upset, and I was, like, sitting in his kitchen, and I was crying and telling him, that why was I the one who always gets left, and he just looked at me so calmly and said, the reason I get left is because I'm never the one who leaves first. This same boyfriend is the one who told me about a place called Radical Honesty.

That was another self-help thing that he was really into. Radical honesty. Yeah. It was created by this guy named Brad Blanton, and you can go attend one of his eight-day seminars. and basically Brad challenges us to give up our addiction to lying. You think we're all total liars. And I don't know, I, out of all the self-help places I've heard about, this one actually authentically appealed to me

because I'm already pretty radically honest, but I think people just always call it totally inappropriate. That's what you describe me. Like, I have no survival instinct, you know. Like even this boyfriend, like a few months after we broke up, I ended up seeing him on the subway, right? Right? And I was totally upset, and I totally missed him. I had not gotten over him. And as soon as I saw him in a subway, I was just like, oh, my God, I'm a wreck. I'll never be the same. You destroyed me. I loved you so much.

You told him all this? I told him all that, like on the train. And obviously, the right thing to do as the ex-girlfriend who's been dumped is to be like, yeah, I'm totally fine. Like, you know, I've got such a great new boyfriend. My life is so fantastic. Maybe even pretend like I didn't recognize him for a person. second, you know, like squint, like, who are you again? That's what you're supposed to do, but instead I just, like, completely, like, vomited all my, like, feelings onto him. And so that, to me, seems like radical honesty. Yeah, you're honest. To a fault. And so I felt like it might be nice to maybe go to this workshop where there'd be all these other radically honest people, and we'd would be kind of comforting, and none of us could say the wrong things to each other, and

nobody would get mad. Just a whole community of people wandering around saying inappropriate things to each other. Yeah, for a week, and getting fed for free in between. So I found Brad Blanton, the Crater Radical Honesty's email, and I asked him if there was any room in the latest session, right? And I think I also, like, in the email, was like, I'm so radically honest. I can't wait to just be honest with you all the time. And he wrote back and said he could totally squeeze me in, and he would only charge me $2,000. And then, so I had to go to Washington, D.C., but the headquarters were not. in Washington, D.C.

They were a little bit further out. And so Brad sent his assistant, Jerry, to pick me up at the airport. And so I get into Washington Dolis. Jerry picks me up. He's with this woman named Anne, who was kind of like Brad Blanton's superfan. Like she's attended every single one of Brad's workshops. And I get in the car with the two of them, and they got lots of questions for me, and they were way too interested in me.

They were staring at me a lot, and I could tell they wanted to hug. me, and it was very, there was something very clingy and needy about the attention I was getting in the car. It was really creeping me out. And we ended up being in the car for two hours. Really? Yeah. Like, I thought Radical Honesty Headquarters was just, like, right outside D.C. It wasn't. It was, like, deep into Virginia. We finally pulled up in this little town called Stanley, Virginia, which I've looked up later, has a population of, like, 1,500 people.

And we pulled up to Bradical Honesty headquarters, which turned out to be Brad Blanton's health. Like, the bathroom that they showed me to use was, like, Brad's bathroom. There was, like, hair, pingles on the brushes and, like, grind. And, like, my room that I'd paid $2,000 to stay in was, like, his kid's room. Literally, it was his kid's room? Literally. With, like, you know, tickle me, Elmo, bedsheets.

Like, a kid's room. Yeah. So I put down my stuff in my room. And I come down the stairs and I meet Brad. It's my first introduction to Brad. And he's standing there. He's like 60, white hair and shirtless, very shirtless. And as I come down the stairs, he just walks forward and just gives me a big, clammy, bare-chested, radically honest hug.

Did I mention he was shirtless? You did. Yeah. And so he says, let's go in the living room and get to know everyone. But it turned out they only were trying to get to know me because I was the only new person there. Everyone else there, all the other eight people had been to a radical honesty seminar. Most of them, many radical honesty seminars in that very living room that we were sitting in. And so we're sitting around, and he's like, we have to go around in a circle and say our names,

how much money we made that year, and a big secret about ourselves that we'd never told anyone in order to initiate ourselves to the start of the radical honesty week that we were about to embark on. So we start with Jerry, and Jerry says he hasn't paid taxes for 10 years. And we're just like, oh, you know, that happens. Not that big a deal. He should probably get that taken care of, but not that huge. And then it moves over to this man sitting next to Jerry. and the man says

when he was younger he murdered a man he was sitting in a truck with the other guy and they got into his fight and he took the other man and threw him out the moving truck's window

and the man fell on his head and crushed his skull and another car came and ran over that guy so that's why this man never went to jail so he's been harboring the secret of murdering this man for 20 years And this is what he shares with everybody Yes, you're going on the circle

Yeah, like 11 in the morning So he shares Wow Yeah And I'm just kind of stunned, right? Taking it in And then it moves over to Anne And Anne says

Well, I guess I can talk about how I have sex with my cat Quite often Yeah So Anne says this right It's just hanging there. And no one seems that stunned by her statement. But then, suddenly the murderer raises his hand.

It's that kind of environment, like, with the raising hands? Oh, yeah, they're very civilized. So, yeah, he raises his hand, and he's like, excuse me, I'd like to add something to my secret. He's already a whopper, right? And he's murdered someone. And he looks very uncomfortable, and he's kind of, like, shifting in his seat. And he says, I'd also like to add that I have made out. with my cat made out yeah what was that like just like in the spirit of competition yeah yeah i think

he felt threatened i think he'd been unseated and he'd played his trump card too soon and he thought no one can top this and then she like did and so he definitely wanted to make it clear that he'd had some sort of dalliances with his own cat as well So we go around the rest of the room and it comes to me and I haven't murdered anybody and I haven't had sex with my cat and so I already knew I was going to come up short. And so I say that I have a problem where I tend to shop too much. Like I'll buy something that's too expensive. It's not good, right?

So I told them that, came out with my big secret. And then I realize when I'm done talking, that the room has gone totally silent. And everyone's just staring at me. And then Brad finally says, what is wrong with you? He thought I was harboring a much deeper secret, and then I was just not trusting them to come out with the real stories of murder and debauchery that we all have brewing. I think he thinks that we all really have murdered somebody, and this is the time to come out with it. And it's weird to be told that you're the freak, in a group full of freak, you know. Like you lose your perspective rather quickly.

And then Brad tells me, he says, I just met you, but I already have you all figured out. And your problem is that you're way too much in your head. So I'm going to help you with that. And he, like, opens up a folder, and he pulls out a contract. And the contract says that I should do whatever he tells me to do for the next eight days. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. And so I say that's crazy, and there's no way I'm going to sign this contract. Like, absolutely not. It literally said, like, you, Starlinked kind, have to do whatever Brad Blanson tells you to do for a week. Like, I'm wondering, like, how binding is his contract, you know what I mean? Like, could he actually, like, go to court if I defy him? And it's like being a slave, you know?

Yeah. And then he stands up and looks at me and screams, fuck you, I resent you for defying me. So, just like screaming, bare-chested man telling me to fuck off. So I say, this is crazy, you can't just telling me to fuck off. And he says, fuck you, I'm at war with your mind. Yes, he says he's at war with my mind, Jonathan. And then I tell him I actually like my mind quite a bit. Like I don't want him to be a war with my mind, and I'm very happy with my mind, and I'm keeping it.

And he says, fuck you. you for liking your mind. And then at this point, you just start crying, because I'm, like, so shaken up and it's so jarring the whole thing that it's all happening so fast. I'm like the murder and the cat sex and the house, and I just start to cry in his living room.

And that makes him really tear into me. And he starts screaming, fuck you, I resent you for crying. And you just keep calling me, over and over. I'm crying harder and harder, and I'm trying to tell him to stop. Someone offers me tissue, and he's like, tells them the fuck off. And then he actually, like a true villain, starts mocking my crying. He literally is going, well, I'm a little baby, and I keep crying. Like that.

Finally, like, it was so insane. I just couldn't be there anymore, and I ran up the stairs to my room. And I was like, I'm leaving. This is crazy. There's nobody going to. not stay here. I'll just suck up the money. I'm just leaving, right? And I start, like, gathering my things together, putting my stuff back in my suitcase. But then it's really weird what happened. I basically started going through the same thought process that I go through when I'm leaving

a relationship. Like, I began to think that maybe I was blowing it out of proportion and the fight we had wasn't as bad as I thought. And I also began to feel like this stult. This is what I do all the time I began to feel nostalgic for the good old days back when we were driving to Brad's house. You know, I was, like, feeling very attached suddenly to, like, even the other people. And I was like, well, if I leave now, I won't be able to, like, have lunch with everybody. And this is why, like, I never end up leaving a bad situation because I started to, like, tweak it in my head. Yeah. And so I didn't leave.

I went back downstairs and I signed the contract. So then for the next five days, I had a very simple little routine. I would wake up, go downstairs. We'd do a little yoga. Brad would like to start the days off with the yoga. We'd have a really disgusting lunch, usually with the main feature being some oily cheddar cheese triangle of some sort, you know, on bread or on a bagel. And then Brad would call me a borg for the next eight hours. And honestly, like, I don't even understand what the other people did in the other sessions before I'd shown up

because all of his attention was focused on calling me a... You were like the star pupil. I was the star pupil. I was like the one-woman show of just name-calling. If you're absolutely loving your summer read and don't want the book to be over, your experience doesn't actually have to end when you finish reading. I'm Matea Roach, and on my podcast bookends, I sit down with authors to get to get the book. get the inside scoop behind the books you love. Like, why Emma Donoghue is so fascinated by trains?

Or how Taylor Jenkins-Reed feels about being a celebrity author? You can check out bookends with Matea Roach, wherever you get your podcasts. On the fifth day of my new radical honesty routine, I wake up, go downstairs, same as always, and Brad announced. he's got a surprise for me. And I'm just thinking, oh, good, great, what can it be? And he says normally at the end of every radical honesty workshop, at the end of the eighth day, everyone celebrates by getting naked and like running around naked with each other.

But he says he's got a special treat for me, and that that treat was that he was moving naked day up to today, to the fifth day. Just out of the goodness of his heart? I guess so. He really said it with such, like, relish. Like, yay, naked day today, starting now. He was like, this is going to be great. It's naked day.

It's so beautiful. F***ing you. There are a couple of you. But it's going to be this great bonding thing. So that's when I realized that if there was ever a moment where I'd take a stand and make a choice, this was it. Right? And I said, no, fucking way. I'm out of here.

I quit. I will not do this. And that's when I realized it's actually not quite as easy as it seems to fully occult. Because first of all, I'm in nowhere. I'm in the middle of nowhere. I don't have a car. I was driven here by Jerry and Ann, and I don't know how to get out of here. Like, it's a small, tiny town.

And I'm trying to find, like, some local person who can drive me to a bus station or something, you know. And I get some number, and I call, and I'm like, is there a cab who can pick me up, taking me a bus station? And they said, there's no cabs in this town. The person, woman on the phone said, there's no cabs at all. And I'm like, well, I need someone to drive me to the bus station. I'm in a house, and they want me to get naked, and I just need someone to drive me away. And the woman's like, well, I'll see what I can do. And I hang up.

And I start calling other cab things, and I finally get a cab that is an hour away from where I am. And they say it's going to cost $200. And so I just, like, wait, and I'm in my room, and I'm trying to, like, not think about anything. And then one of the people from downstairs after a little while called up and are like, Starley, there's someone here for you. And I figure it's my cab and I like get my bag and I go downstairs and parked outside of Brad's house in his driveway are the cops, the police. They've come because that first woman, you know who I talked to, she ended up calling the cops. Oh, yeah. And like they're there and they're waiting and I'm like, no, no, no, this is a misunderstanding standing.

They just want me to get naked, that's all. And then the cops, like, put their hands on their gun, you know? And they, like, totally want to come in and, like, arrest everyone in the house. And I'm, like, trying to explain to them that even though they want me to get naked, it's not illegal somehow. Because of his contract. Right. And I see their cop car, and I really do want to get in. It seems very comforting.

But then the cab pulls up from, like, the hour away town. And I have to choose. Like, before I didn't have any way to flee my cult, and now I have, like, too many options. and then I choose the cab because he's come all that way and I feel like I have to take him and also I probably don't want to end up in a woman shelter and so I tell the cops I'm sorry and they're like really don't want to leave

like they really slowly get in their cars and drive away and look back the whole time and I get into the cab and like we start driving and I can see the trees and I can see all the nature and I start to notice that it's really actually very pretty there like it was like a really nice weather

fall had just started and I'm just kind of taking it all in and I just was like noticing it and I was shocked that I hadn't seen any of this on the drive up somehow like I'd just been thinking about how I didn't want Ann and Jerry to talk to me and like my flight and like what I was about to get into and I didn't even notice how beautiful it was

and it was like right then that I realized how this was the first time I'd ever gotten out of a bad situation on my own. Like, I had finally done the leaving. And I was just leaving Brad, but at least I was leaving somebody and I had done it. And I mean, it's so crazy what happened, but I feel proud that I did it, that I actually left, you know? And I realized that finally for even a brief period, just for that brief cab ride, I think it was my version of living

in the moment. Hello. I was listening to the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation today. Oh, were you? Yeah. There's something really, really, really interesting and informative on radical honesty. That you were listening to my radio show. You know, everyone is just so duplicitous, and I'm just sick of it, and I'm going to be an honest person.

Okay, but, Howard, I mean, if you had been listening to my radio, my radio show... I'm just going to say it as it is. You know, John, one thing about you, when you eat, you have crumbs all over your face, and it disgusts me. Okay, and I'm going to be a truthful person. And bang, first thing in my mind, you disgust me. Okay. Especially when you eat. You know what?

You're going overboard. And I'll tell you something else. There's a reason why we have filters, you know, and it's called being polite. I mean, and that's sort of the point. You lost me about a minute ago. I just found that so boring and long-winded. I just really had no interest for listening to that. Oh, yeah.

Would you accept that feigning interest in what boring people have to say is a form of lying? I think it is. Oh, you do? Yeah. I mean, Frank. I was honest before. I was pretty honest. I would say what I think and think what I say.

But I'm just basically saying that right now, I am just completely, completely rid myself of any kind of falsehood. I think that might not be such a good idea for you. Well, I disagree. And I think that you often have stains in your armpits. Okay, Howard. And had someone been honest about maybe, I don't know, 35 years ago, maybe you'd have more friends.

You know what? Maybe I do need more friends. Well, there you go. See, that's a very honest statement. Because you have basically one. and that's me and I'm getting kind of sick of you and I appreciate your honesty

in assessing that Do you know when you speak your dentches go Cic Cic Cic Cic Cic Cac Howard I don't wear dents Check it out I'm just going to let it fly, okay I like I like apples

I like onions I want an orange julep Howard I don't know what you're talking about I don't even know what I'm talking about But just being honest here But your breath often smells like spirits And I mean both Both alcohol and dead people

Okay you see Howard No filters are for coffee Howard, there's being honest, and then there's this being downright room. You run funny. When have you ever seen me run? Remember that time I was chasing with a garden hose? You're all dressed up and you're on your way to that radio award ceremony. John, over the years, I've been censoring myself.

You should know this thing. You know, you go around, you call soft drinks soda pop, and that really embarrasses me. You know, you call cold cuts luncheon meats, and that embarrasses me. I mean, who says that? Howard, that is not, first of all, that is... Hey, I'm just being honest. You were being very... No, no, no.

I'm just being very straight. forward okay john look look okay i have another confession to me i don't want to hear your confessions hear me out okay you know those pants your favorite pants the beige ones right those are your favorite pants right and i encourage you to buy those pants we went shopping together and you know and you tried them on and you you you were uncertain because you felt they were way too expensive and i said with you crazy they look so great you got to you've got to wear them you have to get these pants and i made you go in from the mirror and i made you dance around the whole changing room with them wearing the pants. Remember that?

Right. And you felt so good about them. Those pants, John, they make your ass look fat. Why would you have encouraged me to get them then? I felt that maybe if you were wearing something like that and looked so bad, it'd make me feel a bit better about myself. They ride really high up in the back, and somehow it gives you visible panty line, and I'm certain that you're not wearing panties, so it's quite a mystery.

Okay, you know, Howard? Didn't your mother ever teach you to, you know, bite your tongue? My mother was trying to teach me how not to bite my tongue because I was eating so quickly, and we even had to get a specialized mouth guard. Look, I'm just, look, watch. Oh, I just feel this, this liberation. I just feel, you know what, you try. You try it.

You try, go, go forward. Be honest with me. Talk about me, talk about your own miserable life. I don't care. Oh, yeah? Yeah. Okay, all right. Okay, all right, right, try.

You know what, you always talk about how your hands are leithful. the weapons? It's because you never washed them, Howard. I appreciate your candor. Your apartment smells like the inside of a filthy hockey bag. I value your opinions. And you don't even play hockey. You're stupid. Okay, Howard, you had your turn.

I'm just being honest with you. There's a stupid comment. And your ears are dirty. They are not dirty. And let's talk about eating habits. Okay, oh, no, choose, choose, choose, choose. Can we call it truce here for a second? Now, I'm going to say something now, and I'm not disavowing honesty, okay, but in lieu of the situation, maybe we should not be honest about each other.

What do you mean? Well, we can maybe combine our honesty and be honest about other people. And who exactly do you have in mind? Josh. Josh seems like a good person to be honest about. Like, why Josh? Because he's not here. and we can say what we want

and he will never even know it and we can delight in our honesty Okay, for instance You know, his voice is so shrill That it's like an emergency warning system That is true Especially when he gets all worked up I mean, Josh is just one irritable guy

I mean, have you ever gone out to eat with him Very frustrating Do you ever see how picky he is with his food? Yeah, you can't even order anything Because you just dissect everything that's on the menu Yeah, it's just awful I feel bad for the waitresses You ever have any things that's crazy

On Wiretap today, you heard Starly Kine and Howard Chakowitz. Wiretap is produced by Jonathan Goldstein with Mira Bertwin Tonic and Crystal Duhame. For more CBC podcasts, go to cBC.ca.ca slash podcasts.