Wiser Than Me with Julia Louis-Dreyfus - Julia Gets Wise with Vera Wang

Episode Date: May 22, 2024

This week on Wiser Than Me, Julia connects with 74-year-old fashion designer and visionary entrepreneur Vera Wang. Get ready for some serious insight. Vera shares wisdom on good sleep, redefining herself after marriage, and her perspective on aging in the fashion industry. Plus, Julia and her mom, Judy, delve into the influence of mothers' style on their children and reminisce about their all-time favorite outfits.   Follow Wiser Than Me on Instagram and TikTok @wiserthanme and on Facebook at facebook.com/wiserthanmepodcast.   Keep up with Vera Wang @verawang on Instagram.   Find out more about other shows on our network at @lemonadamedia on all social platforms.   Joining Lemonada Premium is a great way to support our show and get bonus content. Subscribe today at bit.ly/lemonadapremium.    Maker’s Mark is a proud sponsor of Wiser Than Me. Celebrate the wise women in your life by creating a custom, personalized label from artist Gayle Kabaker today at www.makersmark.com/personalize.   Hairstory is a proud sponsor of Wiser Than Me. Check out their hero product, New Wash, today at Hairstory.com and get 20% off with code WISER.   This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com/wiser for 10% off your first month.   For exclusive discount codes and more information about our sponsors, visit https://lemonadamedia.com/sponsors/.    For additional resources, information, and a transcript of the episode, visit lemonadamedia.com.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey, we are officially back for season two of Wiser Than Me. To celebrate your out of this world support for our show, I've got a fun announcement to share. Wiser Than Me has its very own merch. It's out now and it's fantastic. Our team has whipped up some items we think you're going to love. We're kicking off the collection with a beautiful Wiser Than Me cross-body tote bag. It even has a zipper.

You can never have enough tote bags. Go ahead, order 10. You'll think, oh that's enough, but it's not. You'll wind up ordering more. To start shopping, head over to wiserthanmeshop.com. Lemonada. You know, if you look at old pictures of me as a kid, you're going to see a little girl who thinks that her white go-go boots and suede fringe vest are the bomb, or my white crochet dress with a ribbon that my mom added to it at the Onpeer line, or my blue seersucker suit that I wore when I flew on airplanes, because that's what people used to do.

They would dress up when they went on airplanes. I remember exactly what it felt like to wear those clothes. They made me feel exceptional. Dressing up. Oh man, how I loved it and how I still do. The ultimate real life dress up has got to be the wedding gown, right? This may be low-key one of the best things about legalized gay marriage because now everyone's in on it. It's dress-ups. It's playing princess. I got married in 1987. I was a child bride, obviously. I was actually kind of young. And my wedding dress was very Lady Di inspired. I wasn't a big Lady Di person or anything, but her wedding dress kicked ass. It had a room with a view vibe. And I was just so crazy about that movie. Lady Di's dress had these poofy sleeves with two layers of lace that

came off the cuff. And I totally stole that from my dress, which was a sort of study of everything awful in the 80s. Well, I mean, that's not fair. It was fine. But it was so 80s. That's one of the great things about clothes, right? They identify an era. Those clothes that I love so much as a kid, there is no question that that's the 60s and 70s. Just look back through history across the globe, across cultures, and the clothes that people wear. They say so much.

They absolutely tell the story of the time. Lincoln's hat, Queen Elizabeth's big lacing around her neck, Cher's tummy, Prince's purple everything. It's time travel. It's all a pageant. It's just Cinderella at the ball, right? And that's how I felt at my wedding. I was Cinderella at the ball. And so maybe I'm a tiny bit embarrassed when I look at that dress now, but it was a statement of a particular moment. The huge sleeves, the sweetheart neckline, the fabric flowered wreath in my hair. I'm pretty sure Brad wore a suit. Anyways, man, it was romantic and I was getting married and for that, okay, I admit it, it was perfect.

Oh, and okay, and you know what I did? I had this tiny little dolphin that was hand carved out of stone, sort of a charm, like a little talisman, and I had them sew it into my dress because I thought it was a good symbol of joy. You know, dolphins are so joyful. Isn't that cool?

But get this, I told them not to tell me where they sewed it. And I still don't know where it is in the dress, which I think is kind of fabulous. It's in there somewhere. Fortunes whisper, sewn in with lucky threads of grace. Now that I think of it, clothes-wise, our wedding was really, honestly, it was a hell of a production. I had a reasonable number of bridesmaids, five. And God, the bridesmaids' dresses, they were fantastic.

They were drop-waisted, and they were a heavy linen in a very particular green, a celadon green. It's a color straight out of Shabby Chic and Laura Ashley. And ladies and gentlemen, that green does not exist in this century, but they were gorgeous. My friend Rosemary Warren made them, and she is the most whimsical, lovely artist. And that's what these dresses were. They had a kind of a sailor collar, beautiful. And then after the reception, I changed out of my wedding gown into my going away dress. That was the same pattern as the bridesmaids dresses,

but it was in a kind of a cream color, and the sailor collar, oh, it was made out of this exquisite antique lace. And I had a cloche hat for the love of God and new flowers. And well, anyway, you get the idea. I kind of got carried away, but that's what fashion is for, to just carry us away. We dress up for our rituals. The clothes we wear convey import, and they're a huge part of what

makes an event special. And I love it, I gotta say. I mean, there's really, honestly, nothing like chic, well-tailored clothes to make you feel confident and different and unique. And someone actually designs all those incredible clothes. And I have been so lucky working with insanely talented designers for red carpet looks. So when you see what a truly gifted fashion designer does up close, oh my god, what a truly gifted fashion designer does up close. Oh my God, what a thrill. Making people feel beautiful, it is an art. And these designers, they are masters. They capture a feeling, a whole era,

everything that leads up to that moment. They capture all of that in a single garment. Ugh, just wow. How lucky then that today we are talking to Vera Wang. Hi, I'm Julia Louis-Dreyfus and this is Wiser Than Me, the podcast where I get schooled by women who are wiser than me. Okay. So, what do Victoria Beckham, Jennifer Lopez, Kim and Khloe Kardashian, Ariana Grande, Issa Rae, Mariah Carey, Corrina Gore, and Chelsea Clinton all have in common? Yep, their wedding gowns were all designed by today's guest.

Before she started designing wedding dresses, she was a world-class figure skater, missing the 1968 Olympic team by like one double-axle sow cow or something. And when the skating door closed, she graduated from Sarah Lawrence and quickly became the youngest editor at Vogue magazine. Anna Wintour said of her, no one at Vogue was funnier or more industrious or louder or more neurotic or more endearing. She left Vogue after 17 years to join Ralph Lauren and then at 40, when she was about to walk down the aisle herself, she noticed there was a lack of fashion-forward looks

in the bridal landscape and she saw an opportunity. She left Ralph Lauren and became a designer in her own right, starting with a sweeping makeover of the bridal industry. In a flash, she was sitting high atop her own fashion empire. Oh, yeah, she's also designed costumes for Olympic skaters Michelle Kwan, Nancy Kerrigan, and for Nathan Chen, who won the gold wearing Vera Wang in 2022. Her business mind is kind of unparalleled. She's on all the Forbes magazine lists you can think of.

And her work ethic, persistence, and drive are legendary. She said her designs don't really have a signature look because in life there is no signature woman. And it's true. Her designs are for the demure, the good girl, the dramatic, the punk rocker, and the Kardashian. I am so happy to talk to this incredible businesswoman, the winner of the National Medal of the Arts

from President Biden, also the winner of the Légion Donner from the French Republic. I think that makes her a knight or something, and I went in on that action. She's a mother and a creative juggernaut who is so much wiser than me, Vera Wang. Hi, Vera Wang. Hi, Julia Louis, and I'm not wiser than you. Oh my God, no. I'm intimidated. No, no, no, not at all. Now first of all, I've got to ask you, are you comfortable if I ask your real age, Vera?

Sure. I'm 74 years and I'll be 75 on the 27th of June this year. So I'm 74 and three quarters. Good. I think. And how old do you feel, do you think? Some days 200 and maybe some days 18. Now, 28, 30. How's that? 28, 30.

You're running the gamut. Yeah, running the gamut. It's kind of broad. You've had a huge life. I can see why that would be the case. What do you think the best thing is about being your age? That I'm here. As they say in golf metaphor, I'm on this side of the lawn or the putting green or whatever.

I think that's kind of a big deal. It's kind of startling because when you think you're three quarters of a century old, that's sort of like, you know, I went across the Atlantic at least six to eight times with my mother, and she never wanted to fly. And so I was on one of the sister ships of the Titanic. Get out of here. Swear, the Mauritania, only it was Cunard lines, not White Star. So I've lived through a lot of massive changes, real changes.

I mean, I feel like I'm on some massive LSD trip or something. Well that's thrilling. It's a thrill. You're on a joy ride. I don't know if it's joy. I don't know if the word is joy. Well it sounds like it to me. I mean, you've persevered.

You've had an enormous, huge amount of experience, which is why you're here today, because we're dying to talk to you about your life experience. I had the great fortune of being dressed by you, both for the 2012 Emmys and the 2020 Oscars. And actually, it's kind of funny. It's sort of a new thing in my lifetime, right?

Because when it started, when I went to the Emmys for the first time in 1992, you would buy your own stuff. Yeah. And then since then, the idea of somebody dressing you and connecting you with a designer, that's a business all into itself.

And this process of getting new dresses, you and connecting you with a designer, that's a business all into itself. Yep. And this process of getting new dresses, it's just all new. How does your team at Vera Wang decide who they want to dress for an award show, Red Carpet? How do you come to those conclusions? I'm actually really curious to hear. I think it's, you know, sometimes kismet. And sometimes we really do try to approach someone. It really depends on the artist or the actor. It just really depends. Back in the day, I know that I developed a friendship with Sharon Stone way before I ever dressed

her. And we sort of mentioned, she said, if I ever go to the Oscars, I'd like you to dress me. And that was right when she hit it on basic instinct. And she really did call me and say, you know, I'm going, I never thought it would really happen. But it really did. And it was a very memorable moment in my career, I have to be honest, as a designer, because here I'd had these other 20 years, you know, working Vogue and then working for Ralph Lauren. And it was pivotal. And she came out and everybody sort of at that point been wearing Armani.

And they were wearing a lot of, you know, very important jackets with trousers, like Annette Bening and a lot of Armani's at that time his real clients and I put on a ball gown which is kind of retro when you think about it back then and I mean, I guess it was a big boost for my persona and for my work and for everything else in Hollywood Believe it or not more than anywhere. Well, I mean, I think the thing that's so incredible about your designs, Vera, I mean, there's so many things that are incredible about them, but I think that they're, you make dramatic choices.

Can we pull up the dresses that I wore that you of yours? Yes, yes, yes. I wanna see those. Okay, so that was 2020, and for the people listening, we're looking at a picture of me in a blue sheath dress that Vera designed that I wore to the Oscars that year. So I'm going to comment on you. Well, that's really that's really a sheath with a modified mermaid. It's a slip dress, in essence. And I'm going to say that I prepared something about you because really in a way you are a minimalist from what I've seen. Certainly when I remember you, that Narciso addressed you for a long time, I was studying

that before I ever addressed you. And I think that at your core, you personally are a minimalist and a modernist. And there's always an intelligence to who you are as not only an actor but as a woman. And I think one tries to respect, at least I try to respect who the woman is as a person, not simply the different roles they play because obviously time doesn't feed all those things, those amazing roles.

But when you're not in those roles and you are yourself on the red carpet, I think it's nice to be able to show another dimension to who you are. Totally. And I appreciate what you're saying. I think a minimalist looks best on me because I'm very small. I'm

sure. And I think a lot of poof and stuff can sometimes not work, but something tight to body maybe less is more I guess in my my case. Every woman has to edit for themselves What they feel what I think a woman never? Looks more beautiful or more confident the one she's comfortable and so I think comfort both physically and also emotionally and artistically and creatively I Think that's one of woman feels true to herself. Whatever that persona is, to me that's when they look their best and feel their best. That's incredible wisdom. I couldn't,

I know you're right about that. Of course you're right about that. And so it can be anything as long as you're comfortable in it. Right. Hey, have you had collaborations, I don't know if you want to say, but have you had collaborations that ever backfired? I have. I won't name a name, but I had two really bad episodes. And one was with a very, very wonderful young actor. She was incredible. And I made her something but the eye makeup that she wore to the Golden Globes, I believe, was so heavy and it started running down her face. And I was in a way blamed.

They said, how could you do that to her? But I didn't do the makeup. I nothing to do with it. Another one is, I won't say the name, but an ex Oscar winner. And I dressed her for years and she wore something that was really proud of because it took a chance. It was minimal geometric, all those kinds of things I loved. And yet her hairdresser did something very strange, very strange.

And we got really in a lot of trouble for that as well, though we had nothing to do with it, believe it or not. And those two times were upsetting. Because I felt upset, not just for us. Well, that really speaks to how important hair and makeup is. I'm sitting here with makeup for you. I call my mask. I put makeup on for you, Vera.

I am wearing makeup for you. Look, see? And I have a great makeup person who literally, I call her, she puts my face on my face. And I never used to wear makeup. You know, very few Vogue editors ever wore makeup for 20, very few people. Well, it's a pain in the ass. It's a pain in the ass. Makeup is a pain in the ass. I don't actually like it. And I like natural. Some days I like sometimes how I look without any some days.

Yeah. Well, sometimes what I'll do, I don't wear makeup really in my everyday life, except I'll wear lipstick. And I think that can help sort of pop the face. And I have to say, just so that people know, that working with you and your team is unsurpassed. I will say that. Thank you, that's such a compliment. It's true.

To everyone. And I really mean it because you are so collaborative. You're so thoughtful. You're so, well, your artistic sense is obviously sublime. And I don't know, I have a feeling of, I trust you. And that's a big deal because- That's a huge deal. So much is on the line.

That's the thing that I want to talk about for a second. There's so much is on the line for us as celebrity types walking the carpet. It is hard. It's brutal. I've had clients that have taken to the Met Gala and that stairwell going up, that first stair. I mean, they've just been intimidated by it. I can't get up those stairs. It's terrifying. And also, so many things come into play when you're going to these events, because the dress has to function as well.

People don't realize that. They think maybe it's just a beautiful gown. But an extremely long train when the room is mobbed is whether it's Fanny Farrah, whether it's the Governor's ball, whether it's all the big dinners for obviously Oscars. Anytime I've worn a train, anytime. Everyone steps on it. It's gotten ripped at the bottom.

Everyone steps on it. It's so irritating. It's like somebody's pulling your pigtail from the back. And I think people don't see that. They don't understand their logistics involved as well. There's a lot to consider. A lot. There's a lot.

But hey, Vera, what do you do when you have somebody who has, somebody you're working with who has anxiety about their body? I think everyone does. Everyone does. Yeah, I was gonna say, everybody has it. But like somebody who's really anxious about what their body looks like,

do you find yourself being in a position of trying to sort of talk them down? No, you know what I think it is? I mean, I've had some experience, I won't name names, but I think I'm fairly good as a woman designer for other women, that I understand women's, I feel I understand them instinctively and how they want to look. You know, for male designers, they've often said this in interviews, they approach women with muses and they have perhaps, they use their muse through which they can filter and receive different concepts. But for women designers, it's so personal, whether you're me or Donna Karen or Mewchaprata or Jill Sander, we relate to our clothes on the first level.

We put them on physically, and that gives you an entire different take and understanding what a lining should be, what a lining shouldn't be, should it be stretched, should it not, should it provide support or should it be loose, you know, and very open. It really depends. This is amazing. You're talking about having the female perspective as a designer. Yes, I am. It's a game-ch changer. I am. And I think that's fabulous. I mean, and it's a real window into design. I think that's fascinating. I'd never considered that and I think it's important to consider.

Men bring certainly an abstractness to it. They're not wearing the dress, they haven't felt the dress, a different perspective completely. For a woman designer, I pretty much see how a woman can look. I do see that. Yeah, that's right. Don't go anywhere. There's more with Vera Wang after this short break. MAKERS MARK BURBON is a sponsor on this season of Wiser Than Me, and MAKERS MARK is offering you a way to honor the special women in your life in an easy and meaningful way.

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How has it? I'm going to say that most of my life I've been a collector of clothing. And I have to say, putting together clothing for me on myself is how I experiment and grow as a thinker, as an artist, as a designer. I experiment on myself. But now when you say you're a collector of clothes and fashion. Not just clothes, accessories. I wear jewelry, the history of jewelry. I mean this is all true. I would like to come to your house and look in

your closet. That sounds like a shit ton of fun. Anytime. Hey listen, also your hair is so long and jet black. It's so gorgeous. It's like... Now I dye my hair. You dye your hair. I'm 75 years old. Okay, but so here's my question. Have you ever considered going gray? I can't. I look into it. I'll tell you why. My hair is not evenly over all like that.

One of my best friends in London went fully gray, but her hair is the color of it and the cut and the tech and it's even. She doesn't have to color parts. Mine is not. So I would look like a bad skunk. Okay, got it. Okay. So keep it as is. Why do you think women, by the way, as they get older, why do you think women very frequently cut their hair short? What's your take on that? I think women were told that. I'm going to be very honest. They were told, you know, if you keep it long past this, women are told a lot of things all the time, every time,

forever. And I can should say, you're not this, you're not that. I do believe also women should be their best selves. I really hope that. But I'm also saying that everyone is unique. How can you make a blanket statement about all people? I mean, does it make any make any sense is particularly as an ex editor and certainly designer I mean 55 years this year. I will have been in fashion 55 years that is crazy town. It's my Birthday my 35th year owning my own company which try doing this for 35 years That's all I'm gonna to say. And it is my

55th year in fashion from when I started. Was your mom fashionable? Clothes horse. She was my first influence. And she always she had so much. What did she wear? What did she wear? You know, there was a store back in the day called Hattie Carnegie on 49th Street between Madison and Fifth. There was also Sackliffe Avenue. And in those days, you couldn't get European clothes in America.

You had to go to Alexander's. You see Funny Face with Audrey Hepburn and Fred Astaire. Buyers went to Europe to buy the rights to copy clothing. How's that? French clothing in America. How about it? Oh my in America, Alexander's. Oh my God. And that's where you bought the copies. You couldn't get Saint Laurent. You couldn't get

Dior. You couldn't get any of those houses. And did your mother wear those copies? My mother got some copies, but we also started going to Paris pretty much every year, every few years so she could shop in Paris. And she really introduced me to Yves Saint Laurent because he was a young guy and she found love with it. She always admired artists. She was a real woman, truly a woman of substance. And I know that from my mother, I learned she's sustained me every age. I'll never forget. And I was young, I was like 14, 15, 16, 18.

She said every age has its unique time and beauty. Oh, that's lovely. Not unlike Chanel. And she said, it's not the same. It never will be. But you find your way through every, she didn't say decades, but she said every stage. And that always took that with me. And then I remember Chanel said the same thing.

When you're young, you know, what you look like is God given. But as you age, it's how you've lived. I might be misquoting Chanel, but I would use that. Yeah, but I think what your mother said is so gorgeous and it really speaks to how you've aged. I mean, you embody that. That's so phenomenal. What a gift your mother gave you.

That's incredible. See, I think that when people say I dress young, I think I'm really just dressing expressively as a designer. Yeah. As someone's devoted 55 years of my life to dressing women. So you're growing up in New York, you're living this fabulous life, and around this time you also fell in love with figure skating. Yes.

So remind me, how old were you when you started skating? Six. Wow. 72nd Street, Central Park, the sailboat pond froze over. And here's a crazy story. My father skated in China. What are the chances my dad could figure skating to figure eights? Really?

It's insane. So he bought me skates for Christmas, took me to Central Park. We lived downtown at the time. We lived on 20th Street. Brought me up there and that's whenever I go to Central Park, we lived downtown at the time, we lived on 20th Street, brought me up there and that's, whenever I go to Central Park, I remember that was when I first skated and I fell in love with it. And are you still in love with it by the way? I'm still in love with it.

Oh, that's nice. It's the most freedom, it's the only sport that exists where you can be an artist and an athlete and you can skate to music and you can have choreography and you can have speed and you have athleticism and you have discipline and you learn a metaphor for life in skating. You fall so much to learn and that's what you take with you the rest of your life that you can fail but pick yourself up. My life's defined

by missing many goals. I've always said that I didn't make it to the Olympic team. I worked at both for many years and I never really got the top job and someone far more far better for it in hindsight and more qualified than me got it, but I was there for 17 years and And then I went to Ralph Lauren where I worked, you know I was just honored there to be a part of his team. Yes I mean I felt grateful to work for him and what I learned and Then I went in my own company and that has been at times exhilarating, but I would say And that has been at times exhilarating, but I would say 85% sweat and 15% reward. I mean, so in other words, all of those, I don't know, I don't want to call them failures, but...

They're not failures, but they're limitations. The limitations or the experiences that didn't work out the way you thought they might, informed how you made decisions and what you've done with your life in a very, very significant way. I know you've talked about it. When you didn't make the Olympic team, that was a wicked blow. I had a nervous breakdown.

You did? Yeah, I did drop out of college for a year. I had a breakdown. I mean, here I've been consumed. What did you do? Did you have to go into therapy for a long time? I left Sarah Lawrence. I moved to Paris.

I was able to do that. Not everyone is. And it was devastating when you are so consumed by something that, you know, they don't realize that the first 20 years of my life I trained at Balanchine School of American Ballet and Balanchine was still alive at that point with all the Russian teachers. And I did it to help my skating. I did give me more line, more connection, more extension, more movement, more knowledge in choreography and movement.

When you do that and you skate, you know, in the summer, 10 hours a day, and in the winter you go- That was what training was like, 10 hours a day? Oh yeah, by noon I'd already skated five hours, and I loved it. I was the last to get off of the Zamboni machine because I loved it. And when you fail and there's nowhere to go,

because I didn't really want to perform in ice shadows in college, I was at Sarah Lawrence, I had a breakdown, because there's nothing to fill that void, not only physically, but creatively, emotionally. And so then what and how did you pivot out? I'll tell you, I was in Paris. And at the time I was dating the champion of France, of figure skating, Petri Perra. And he educated me on French fashion. And one of his best friends was an editor, French folk, Nathalie Delannoye.

And I didn't know an editor even was. I mean, I saw my mother dress fashion, but I didn't think of working fashion, never even occurred to me. And I saw what an editor was, and I'm creating pictures, and it was like making movies. And I said, God, I wanna do that. So when I got back to New York,

I went back and finished college, and I took a job in the summer as a sales assistant at Yves Saint Laurent on Madison and 71st. And a lot of my life was played out in the 70s, I guess, 70s, the streets. And when I was there, I met this woman, Frances Stein, who said to me, when you finish your studies college, call me. You should come to Vogue to work. And I went to my mother and I said, this woman said she would, and my mother read Vogue,

obviously. And I said, this woman said she'd get me a job at Vogue. And my mother said, no, she won't. She's just being polite to you. But that's my parents. They were tough. Yeah. Boy, were they tough. And they only they only wanted me.

They wanted me to achieve. They wanted excellence. They weren't into fluff. That was not their thing. Vera, Vera, you did it. You're you. I know they're into excellence. You did excellence. You did that for them.

Yeah. But after Vogue So then you left to and you you became a design director for Ralph Laurence. Yes I I'd wanted to be on a fashion designer Also in the beginning and my father wouldn't pay after the Paris stay. I got all into fashion Yeah, and I said maybe could I go back to school and learn about design? he said no, I'm not paying for any more tuition after Sarah Lawrence and Yeah. And I said, maybe could I go back to school and learn about design? He said, no, I'm not paying for any more tuition after Sarah Lawrence. And there was an extra year locked in there too.

He said, if you think you're so hot, go get a job in fashion, see if you even like it. Right. And so I say to a lot of the kids that I speak to, a week ago in fact to high school, I say go get a job because I'm always being asked and get paid to learn. Yeah. And see if you really like it. Because a lot of interns we've had through the years young women and men have said I want to be in fashion. Some of them were the children of friends or what or other designers and yeah, sometimes they said after their stint I don't want to go near this. So that but that's good.

I do. Right. Or I do. And I'm when it was my company that did that to them or if it was me, I did it to them or whatever. But you learn that you really see them. Do you really want to work in it or do you want to just shop or do you just want to photograph yourself?

I mean it's not the same thing. No, it's not. Right? That's hilarious. And we love people want to shop. We need that. We need more of it. Bring it on for us.

Yeah, but you don't need them working for you necessarily. So what advice would you give to people who are listening today who want to have a career pivot at the age of 40? Is that that old? Is 40 that old? Everyone says that to me. 40 is young. 40 is young.

But still, a career, like, but I mean, a proper pivot. I didn't get married till I was 40. Three days shy my 40th. I made it under that 40 wire and I got married. But I grew up in an age where we never thought about that stuff even. Maybe I was too busy working. But I know all my mother's friends, so what's wrong with her? She can't get a husband and I end up dressing brides. I mean, you have

to admit there's some irony there, right? I mean. Oh, wait a minute. I have to show you something. So I got married in 1987. Right. I got married two years after you and I'm much older than you. Okay. But wait a minute. You need to look. We're going to show. I want to show you my dress, which we'll also put up on our socials. Look at my dress, Vera. Oh my God. Yes. You look beautiful. I love the bouquet. I always tell brides, be careful of the bouquet because they never look at the bouquet for all the fittings. And then, you know, sometimes the party planner, the florist who's quite detached from the bridal

dress process, gives them a bouquet that doesn't resonate with the dress and can really ruin all our hard work, sorry to say, but I'm being honest. But you look fabulous, the scale of it. Thank you. Well, the thing is is that the one thing I'll say about this dress, it, you know, it was around the time Lady Di got married. So it has, so it's sort of a nod to a Lady Di dress with the puffy sleeves. Yes. It's also, I loved, loved, loved the movie Room with a View. Do you remember that movie, Vera? Yes, I loved it.

So this was sort of in that vein of Room with a View. It was corseted top and a big poofy skirt and my veil was, you know, went well beyond the train. No, this has stood the test of time. I'm so happy you think this. You know who designed it? Who? Well, I sort of made it up myself.

Well, I worked with a guy who was at the time the costume designer at SNL. Wow. Why not? No. Why not? I mean, it's who I knew. I mean, I didn't know anybody. I mean, I love your hair. There's mean, I didn't know anybody. I mean, I just I love your hair. There's a romance to this picture. I love your face. I love the light, light, light makeup.

It's beautiful. Oh, good. I'm so happy that you like it. It's not incorporating too much stuff. In a way, the bouquet is speaking and it brings a feeling of nature to the dress. You know, I mean, it doesn't look like it's a feeling of nature to the dress. You know what I mean? It doesn't look like it's a centerpiece for a table. I so appreciate that. And then one of my very best friends, Paula,

who actually produces this podcast with me, she got married 10 years later and look at what she wore, Vera. Let me see. Ah, got it. That's your dress. I know. Yeah, we got very minimal.

There's no question. But look how that's stood the test of time. Doesn't she look exquisite? Yes. But the difference between, in these 10 years, the reason I'm showing you these two pictures is because it speaks to your influence in this bridal industry and design in general, of course.

But I mean, there it showed up in our lives. Wow. Anyway, I just thought you would get a kick out of that. Stay put. My conversation with Vera Wang continues in just a moment. to those fitness apps we download and forget about, it's so easy to lose track. And let's be real, trying to cancel is a total headache. But with Rocket Money, you've got your own personal subscription detective. It rounds up all your subscriptions in one spot, making it a breeze to manage your spending. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that finds and cancels your unwanted subscriptions,

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Yes. Okay. So what is your relationship to your daughter's sense of style? And oh god, rough subject. I mean, I have a daughter that loves fashion, but I guess, oh for a second, I was like going through parenting issues and I remember saying I'm having this particular problem with my older daughter because she's very headstrong. I said, don't you want her to be that way in a way? I said, We're not really living it every day. But anyway, um, so she loves fashion, but as an individualist, which I hope every woman is, yes, she likes fashion through her own lens. Sure. It isn't my lens,

but she's very accommodating. If I say you have to go with me to an event and you have to wear me, she's that, she will do it. And she's glad to do it. She'll do it. Well, that's respectful. Right. I have another daughter that really hasn't warned me very much ever, ever. I'm hoping I get the wedding before I die, both weddings, because I've done most of

my friends' kids' weddings. But wait, you will dress them for their wedding, correct? I certainly hope I'm alive and well and can do it. I don't want to exert pressure and say, hurry up, because I had none on me. But I mean, my younger daughter actually works in your industry. And, and she's extremely conservative, and quiet and, you know, she doesn't want to ever look too sexy or anything like that. And whatever I buy her, I just finally gave up after, you know, 15 Christmases and birthdays, I said, you know what, why don't you just choose and

I'll pay for it. That became the modus operandi for many, many years. And when I asked a favor of her to do something with me on the red carpet, she will concede begrudgingly that she doesn't like any of that. Got it. Interesting. So I'm dealing with two of them. So they're very different. Very different. Yeah. You would think that maybe it's because I design clothing for women that they both have their own take. That could very well be the case.

Sure. Of course. Yeah, it makes sense. They have to find their own path. Their own identity. Yeah. And I think that for me, sometimes it's frustrating. I can't say as a mom, it isn't. So early on, they were their own people. And I guess I love that. I guess I've got

to love it. Yeah. No, of course. You've got to love it. That's who you are. If that's what I say to women, then I have to accept into my own home. That's exactly right. You do. How did you balance your professional life? Oh God. And that is to say, designing the bridal line, the awards season, ready to wear, and you had these two children.

How did you do it? And sick parents, very sick parents. And sick parents. The last 13 years of each of their lives was brutal. Oh, I'm so sorry to hear that. I was never going to let my parents die alone in a hospital or in a bed, and I wanted to be there as much as I can, and I was, and I have no regrets, but it did get very, very, very tough.

I mean, building a company to young children and both parents unfortunately suffered a great deal. They were not easy deaths and they were long and drawn out. And at one point they crossed over so I was running at New York Presbyterian, I was running between floors because one was pulmonary and the other was a stroke. So my dad has stroke many. And my mother eventually died in a long year. My father died of prostate cancer. So I've become a bit of an activist for that. And so here you are, you've got these two kids.

Your parents are ill and dying. And my husband's commuting to London for business. Okay. So your husband was going to London, so wasn't around. How did you hold it together? What did you do? And then how did you manage your grief? Because I think talking about grief is always a part of these conversations.

Always. Always. How could it not be? How could it not be? Right? Life is grief. You reach a certain... Yeah, life is grief. Right. I talk to a lot of the people I work with who are like my day family.

I talk to them about these things. They're much younger, but I try to say, prepare yourself. And Jane said it, Fonda, on your podcast. She said, this is not easy. And I just kept on, I didn't even think, you literally put yourself on the 10th burner. You run to your parents, you run to them whenever a nurse calls or a doctor calls. Then you also try to be there for your children. And I think during that period, which was very formative for

them, I wasn't there enough. And I regret, I mean, I was up against moms, and I have nothing but respect for women who choose to make that their life's work. I mean, I have so many friends that have, I mean, I couldn't do the best brown bag lunch and the best sandwiches. I couldn't do enough library book drives for the kids at school. I couldn't, I would come to the volleyball matches, the gymnastic matches, and I'd have to leave early. And one time my daughter just started to cry, why do you always have to leave early. And so, you know, women are not only, as far as we've come, we still assume so much of the burden of life. And now that we throw work into it as another part,

anyone who says it's easy is not being truthful, because something has to give. And very often, it's us, it's us something has to give. And very often it's us, it's us that has to give. And people don't understand we're all super women. I mean it. Yeah, I mean, I in my... And it's exhausting. It's exhausting. It can be exhilarating at the same time. Yes, at times. But that was a huge bounce for me because I was working full time when I had both of

my boys. Yes. And for me, it was a constant struggle. Me too. Figuring out how to straddle the world of motherhood and a professional life. Yes. And when you're on top of it juggling, making your kids feel safe and protected and offering them every opportunity you can possibly offer, because that's basically parenting is to prepare

them, I think, for the world ahead as much as you can, as unpredictable as it is. Have you been able to, with your girls, have you been able to sort of reconcile that deficit from their youth to a certain extent? Do you talk about it with them? I think one would have to ask them to be perfectly honest. I really think you'd have to ask them. I think that, you know, they, you know, are certainly grown up now. And so they see things in a different perspective. And, you know, there may be more forgiving, or they may understand better that also, I mean, maybe people don't realize this about me what the perception I have no idea, but I had to work to provide the lifestyle that they lived. It wasn't purely an ego or my passion for women in clothing and dressing,

it was also a necessity. Can you talk about transitioning into being single? Because you got your marriage, you were married for how many years? 20 something years, I think, right? Yeah, I'm trying to think exactly what the years were. I think maybe at that time, 22 years. And what was that transition like? Very difficult. I have to be honest, because it wasn't when we literally separated. It

was prior, by about five or six years. And I'm one of those people that never quits. So I'm up for therapy, whatever, clinging on with my fingernails, praying, hoping, wishing, and that's who I am. I mean, you know, I'm not someone who says next or, you know, F you and I'm out of here. You don't give up. I don't give up. And that's, that's not always healthy. I mean, it can be very detrimental to your emotional health and your, and your psyche and your sense of yourself and your own self-respect and dignity. And I think I was a clinger. And I tried.

Here I had kids. And people say it's always about keeping the family together. It isn't. It's also about yourself, if you're honest. Of course. It's about your health. Yeah. How do you go from making a commitment to someone that you think you're going to build

a life with? Yes. making a commitment to someone that you think you're going to build a life with. And then all of a sudden or some incident or some deterioration makes you realize that it isn't going to work because there's someone else involved and they may not want it. Or they may not want it in the way you want it. Right. Yeah. Fair? Is that fair? Yeah the way you want it. Right. Yeah. Fair? Is that fair?

Yeah. I totally get it. Everybody's a different expectation level of a marriage. And you know, marriage is hard. Yeah. Marriage can be very hard. It can be wonderful, but it can also be very difficult. Yes.

Metaphor for life, you know? Yeah. No kidding. Bigger skating. Getting up when you fall, when you're going through bad patches and then have to try somehow work through it, you know? Yeah. But it was brutal.

But you got through it, it seems. I'm trying still to get through. I mean, I've dated. You have dated? Yeah. I mean, literally date. Now, what date implies, I don't know what date means anymore at my age. No, no, I have, obviously.

I've tried to have relationships. It's not easy. And I think that when you're a working woman, to the extent that I am, and other women are that I know, and love and respect, sometimes maybe, maybe can be a bit intimidating. Yeah, I was about to say men can be intimidated by that. Totally get it. But do you like, I would imagine you kind of like being single too. That's a sense I get. I will say one thing. Yes.

I started to be able to have, well also I'm an empty nester. Yes. Big difference. Big difference. Then kids running around, their friends running around and running a daycare center, which I love. Yeah. You know, I loved it. Everybody would come to my house and love. Yeah, you know, I love it.

Everybody come to my house and get Big Mac, you know, Happy Meals and all the mothers would be angry at me. But I thought it was a treat, you know, I'd bribe the kids. But I have to say, I love McDonald's. But I think that one thing that's good is I began being alone to be able to give myself permission to take a little bit better care of myself, which I could never fit in when you're running a company and you've got kids and they're going up and going through their stages, you know, like first born mitzvah, bat mitzvah, getting into schools, SAT, ACT, getting tutors, and all

the things you have to do with kids at every stage from potty training. All the way through. All the way through. I mean, a parent doesn't end until they die. Yeah. So taking better care of yourself, which I wanted to ask you about, so let's talk about that. I don't feel all the time.

I don't feel all the time. I don't feel tense. I did start to realize I was losing lung capacity and muscle strength at one point a few years ago, because I've always been an athlete. But I never worked out consistently after a period. I broke my ankle when I was 37. After that, I couldn't really do what I liked. I was a runner. And I'm very knowledgeable about the obviously I

Dance about how to be a yeah. Yeah. Yeah other level of knowledge. I mean in all fairness truthfully, but yeah, you know I tried myself on Trying to whenever I could with the schedules I, I call it sporadic working out, not consistent all the way through. But I really decided last August, because I had a particularly difficult schedule last year. We had two moves, our corporate move, and then we changed stores in LA. And that was just the added cherry on top of running the company.

And I made it a decision for myself that I would really try to gain strength again. So I'm happy to say I'm pushing 80 to 100 pound leg presses now. And not nice and not crazy. I mean, I don't do it. You know, I don't work out in the gym three hours a day. I don't have time. Right. But if I can fit in a 40 minute walk, like my sister-in-law loves to walk and, you know, she's more retired, she'll walk two hours with her with my brother. But I try to fit in that and make an effort to make that happen now. For other times, everybody needs you. There's you have to talk to this hour, you can't do it any other time you bend yourself

into for every other appointment. And I finally say, you know what? I'm going to be 75. And if I can't figure out an hour a day for myself, then there's something really wrong. So I've gained a lot of strength. And what about sleep? Because you're talking about sleep too. I love sleep.

I love sleep. I know. It's so divine. How much sleep do you get a night? I would say minimum eight. and on a very good day. There are days I can go 10. Is there anything that you do to ensure a good sleep? Is there any? I've changed. I have changed. I used to watch TV and someone falls asleep with the click on the TV on. But now I've changed. I turn the TV off and I read a bit. I have a friend who brings me books, who actually works for me as well. And he brings me books,

which I started reading again, which I kind of really love. And even though I can't get to maybe four or five, six pages, maybe a chapter or two, depending on the book, but that helps me calm down. Yeah. Well, speaking of calming down and relaxing, I want to ask you about your vodka. I always like to have a cocktail at night. I mean, I like to have one. Although I was having a lot of dental surgery this past year on antibiotics, so you really

can't do that. I mean, the efficacy of antibiotics doesn't work with alcohol. So I basically had to stop for quite a while. But I like a cocktail. I don't mean five. I don't mean three. I like a cocktail night Before dinner and I just like it. Well, I would love to have some time We have to have a vodka cocktail together. That would be really nice. Yes. It'll have to be my vodka

It will have to be my without question. I need to try this Sorry to push this no no, I'm happy to push it and I'm happy to try it and I can't wait to try your vodka. Okay, Vera, is there something you would go back and tell yourself at 21? Yes. I would be more premeditating how I approach life. I've been more of a person that was organic. Things came my way and not came my way that way. I mean, things occurred. And I just think, God, that seems like a good idea at the time,

like the Vogue job. I didn't run into Connie Nass thinking, Oh, I'm going to be a Vogue editor. I was in a way discovered. And I think it also Richard Abandon I have to thank him God rest his soul always recommended that I become an editor because he believed in me from the time I was an assistant at Vogue but I have to say that I have learned to be more not even strategic but to think in steps which when I was young I didn't at 21 didn't even but to think in steps, which when I was young, I didn't. At 21, it didn't even occur to me. Nothing.

To think in steps. That's very, very good. I like that. It didn't occur to me then. Building blocks. Totally. Is there something you're looking forward to? I'm looking forward to having more personal time.

That's something I've really discovered and it, I don't know if it's because of my age or because of fashion and the workload. And it doesn't leave a lot of room to think about yourself. You're very busy externally trying to relate and to create and to sustain. Yeah. That's a challenge for people at any age. Yeah, it is a challenge. It's a balance. You're talking about balance and wellness and all of it. And keeping your sanity.

And keeping your sanity. Holding on to your sanity. Seriously. Cling to it with your heart and soul. Ugh, Vera, this has been the best conversation ever. You've been incredibly generous, and I just admire you beyond... Well, I can't articulate how much I admire you. I think you're a hugely wonderful person. Love you.

Thank you very much. Thank you for including me. Well, wasn't that a treat. Okay, so I'm going to call my mom on Zoom so I can tell her all about this conversation. Hi, Mom. Hi, love. How are you?

Good. How are you doing? I'm good. Hi, mom. Hi, love. How are you? Good. How are you doing? I'm good. So, mom, today we spoke to Vera Wang. You know what? There's just something about her clothes. Simple and they are so classic and they're just so flattering. Yes.

It's funny you say that because she was talking a lot. She was certainly, we discussed the dresses that she's done for me and they've been very, her word, minimalist. Yeah. I want to talk to you about fashion for a second. Was your mother's fashion style influential to you? Because I can tell you it was to me, your mother.

Oh, really? Well, that's so interesting. Yes, it was. My mother, she looked wonderful. She was glamorous in clothing. She loved to dress glamorously. And sometimes it made me feel uncomfortable. Why? I felt that she was overdoing. And I think that Grace did overdo. I mean, she wore a lot of costume jewelry. She had an old thing on. All she'd do is take a big sparkly paint on it and think that had dressed it up. I mean, she would do one thing, one dramatic thing to make it, to turn it around. And I didn't think that that worked. But when there was something, it was called the new look. And the new look, I think, came out in the 50s. And that's when

the sort of Durnal skirt, the big skirt, the poodle skirts came out and the suits that had big shoulders and were long and had long jackets, sort of a Joan Crawford look. It was called the new look. And mother had some suits that were in the new look. And I remember that we went over to Culver where my brother was, and it was Thanksgiving. And my mother was dressed in the new look.

And I remember my brother was thrilled. He just said, mom, you look like a mom. And she did, She looked wonderful and in the clothes and she loved clothes. She loved them. Love them. Love them. All these formals that you would keep in their closet. I think I've told you that and she in the guest room closet. So Judy and I, my best friend growing up, when we would dress up, we would go and we sneak in the closet, we'd put those clothes on, put her dresses on, and we would sort of tie them up

and try to make them fit. And it was just hysterical what we did. And then mother one time had, I can't remember what, whether they were her dresses or they were somebody grown up dresses, but she had them cut down to fit us. Oh. And guess what?

What? We hated them. Oh. Why? The thing about putting your mother's dress on, it was a quick hanging thing, and then we'd make it fit, and we thought it looked perfect when we had arranged it. But when it was made for us, I mean, that was like, you know,

it was like what your sister Lauren said, that was like, you know, your sister Lauren said one time when I took her to see the Maltese cutouts, she was 10 years old, and she said, I can do that. So in other words, we could wear that. We wanted to wear the things that were out there. It's so funny because I have the same experience with Dee Dee, my grandmother who I called Didi, your mom, because when I would stay with her, what I loved about staying with her was that

she would just let me go in her closet. And so I would spend hours in her closet trying on her shoes and her dresses and her jewelry and her purses, she had so many purses. And it's so funny, because then I remember when she died and there were all these clothes and they didn't have the same allure as they had when I was little. But I remember thinking that she was just the glamorous of the glam.

Yeah, she had a lot of that quality about her, a lot of sheen. A lot of sheen. Yeah. Right. Mom, are there any pieces in your closet that you remember vividly as being fabulous that you loved and, you know, looking back on clothes? Looking back on clothes? Yeah. I'll tell you what I love were the poochy, the poochy look. I knew you were going to say poochy. Yeah.

I had two pieces, sort of the slacks and the top, and I had a dress that was a poochy-like, which I adored. I wore it at my 50th birthday party. It had long sleeves and it had kind of a A-line skirt. And it had, if I can see a picture of it, it had some geometric designs on it. And I loved that. I loved it. I love the Pucci stuff that you wore.

I remember the pants suit. I believe it was sleeveless. Am I remembering that, I loved it. I love the poochy stuff that you wore. I remember the pants suit. I believe it was sleeveless. Am I remembering that correctly? I think it was sleeveless, yes, exactly, exactly. Yes, and by the way, if you had that now, it would be still good. Talk about timeless. Oh, absolutely.

I wish you did have it. Mommy, why don't you have it? Well. I would wear that. Try to predict what is gonna look good in 40 years. I know, try to predict. This is true. Get a castle and put all those clothes in it.

Just have nothing but clothes in that. Okay, note to self, get a castle for your clothes. Yes. Okay, mommy, well listen, I'm gonna go, but I'm gonna call you later, and thanks for talking to me about Vera Wang. Well, I am so happy to talk to you about Vera Wang or about you or any other things. So let's do it again.

OK. OK. I'll see you next week. Love you. Love you. Bye. Bye. There's more Wiser Than Me with Lemonada Premium. Subscribers get exclusive access to bonus content from each episode of the show. Subscribe now in Apple Podcasts. Make sure you're following Wiser Than Me on social media. We're on Instagram and TikTok at Wiser Than Me. And we're on Facebook at Wiser Than Me Podcast. Wiser Than Me is a production of Lemonade Media created and hosted by me, Julia Louis-Dreyfus.

This show is produced by Chrissy Pease, Jamila Zaraa Williams, Alex McCohen, and Oja Lopez. Brad Hall is a consulting producer. Rachel Neal is VP of New Content, and our SVP of Weekly Content and Production is Steve Nelson. Executive Producers are Paula Kaplan, Stephanie Wittles-Wax, Jessica Cordova-Kramer and me. The show is mixed by Johnny Vince Evans with engineering help from James Barber.

And our music was written by Henry Hall, who you can also find on Spotify or wherever you listen to your music. Special thanks to Will Schlegel and of course my mother, Judith Bowles. Follow Wiser Than Me wherever you get your podcasts. And if there's a wise old lady in your life, listen up. This episode of Wiser Than Me is brought to you by Makersmark. Makersmark makes their bourbon carefully, so please enjoy it that way. Makersmark Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey, 45% alcohol by volume. Copyright 2024, Makersmark Distillery, Incorporated, Laredo, Kentucky.

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