Wiser Than Me with Julia Louis-Dreyfus - Listen Again: Julia Gets Wise with Julie Andrews

Episode Date: August 13, 2025

"Mary Poppins" was released in August 1964. To mark the occasion, we're listening back to Julia's conversation with Academy Award-winning icon Julie Andrews. Acclaimed for her enduring roles in both “Mary Poppins” and “The Sound of Music,” among many others, Julie brings a depth of wisdom from a lifetime in the spotlight. The pair discuss the restorative feeling of being in nature, their favorite curse words, and Julie’s 60-year friendship with Carol Burnett. Plus, Julia and her mom, Judy, talk about a life-changing health scare in Judy’s past and how it helped her find her creative voice.    Follow Wiser Than Me on Instagram and TikTok @wiserthanme and on Facebook at facebook.com/wiserthanmepodcast. Keep up with Julie Andrews on Instagram @julieandrews. Find out more about other shows on our network at @lemonadamedia on all social platforms. Joining Lemonada Premium is a great way to support our shows and get bonus content. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. For exclusive discount codes and more information about our sponsors, visit https://lemonadamedia.com/sponsors/.  For additional resources, information, and a transcript of the episode, visit lemonadamedia.com.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Well, hello there. It's me, Julia Louis Dreyfus. I'm so happy to be back with season three of Wiser Than Me. And to celebrate that, I am so excited to share that we have partnered with Lingua Franca, a New York City-based luxury and sustainable clothing brand to offer our listeners Wiser Than Me specific hand-embroidered sweaters, sweatshirts, and more. I've gotten to hand-select each of the items in this curated collection and have had so much. much fun with it along the way, adding a bunch of sayings from our podcast to the items. It all combines Linguafranca's chic yet thoughtful designs with our mission to celebrate the wisdom of older women. So check out our collection by heading over to wiser than me shop.com and clicking on the Linguafranca collection. out on a trail in the hills and the mountains or along the beach, just out in nature. It's an activity that brings me an enormous amount of solace, of joy, peace of mind. Hiking can really change my mindset. In fact, as I'm saying this, I realize I've really got to get out there right now and move, which I'm going to do right after we record. There is something about walking and looking

at the natural world and feeling and smelling the world around me. Smells are important to me, too. My memories are really full of smells for real. Where I live in California, we have seasons, believe it or not. They're subtle, but we do have seasons that change, and the smells in the air from the trees and all the shrubbery, the chaparral, it changes from season to season for month to month. And I love that. The pittosporum, the cianothus, the jasmine that blooms at night. I mean, one night you can't smell it at all, and then the next night it's almost dizzingly sweet. The orange blossoms, which just are California to me, the eucalyptus and the boxwood, oh, well, I can't smell boxwood without thinking of my dad, my dear dad. These smells, you know, they wax and wane from month to month from year to year, but they're all so wonderful. And I find that if I'm having a hard time or if I'm anxious or if I'm trying to figure something out, to get out of my head and to free up my brain, I really need to move in the outdoors.

This, to a certain extent, has always been true for me, but as I've gotten older, it's only become more and more true. My favorite thing to do is to go on a hiking trip. We did that last year with family and friends. We went to the Dolomites in Italy, and we hiked thousands of vertical feet and many, many miles a day, and it was super hard, and it was as good as it gets. And another benefit of being out walking or hiking in the natural world beyond the self-searching and meditative stuff is that it is a great opportunity.

for conversation. Conversation can flow in a way that it just might not otherwise. I think maybe that's because you're both looking forward and you're not looking at each other that it sort of allows a kind of openness and maybe a deeper form of honesty. The ritual of walking and breathing at a pace together is just conducive to a more intimate conversation. And in fact, it wasn't a hike with my college roommate and dearest friend Paula that we first discussed the idea for this very podcast and how to do it and what it might be like and how it would be devise and who it would be fun to talk to and where do we get the microphones from and what button is record you know all of this and now look here we are we're finishing up our second season of being inspired and roused by all

these mind-blowing old ladies i mean seriously who to thunk it something happens moving through the natural world, something deep-rooted. They say that mountains are nature's cathedral, and I do think that's true. You know, maybe the hills really are alive with the sound of music or with something otherworldly, something sacred and what? Divine. Mary Oliver has so many great poems about moving through nature, and this is one called Why I Wake Early. Hello, sun in my face. Hello, you who make the morning and spread it over the fields and into the faces of the tulips and the nodding morning glories and into the windows of even the miserable

and crotchety. Best preacher that ever was, dear Star, that just happens to be where you are, the universe to keep us from ever darkness, to ease us with warm touching, to hold us in the great hands of light. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Watch now how I start the day in happiness, in kindness. Boy, that Mary Oliver, I'll tell you. Yeah. The hills really are alive. How fitting then that for the last episode of this season, we get to talk to Julie Andrews.

Hi, I'm Julia Louis Dreyfus, and this is Wiser Than Me, the podcast where I get schooled by women who are wiser than me. I was just four years old when the sound of music premiered in 1965 and for those of you listening who were not alive in the 60s, we didn't have Netflix or Disney Plus or Max or whatever. We didn't even have DVDs or VHS, which meant. that if you wanted to watch a movie, you actually had to go to see it in the theaters. Well, lucky for me, the sound of music was basically always playing when I was growing up,

which meant I got to go to the theater and see it as much as I wanted to, which was a lot. I simply couldn't get enough. I've seen it more than I've seen any other movie. I mean, I've seen it dozens of times. I saw it last week, for God's sakes. Most people have to think really hard for a minute to come up with their favorite movie, but not me. Sound of music. That's it. And it's been since I can remember. Why do I love it so much? Well, for starters, it was the soundtrack of my childhood. So, yeah, it is a little hard for me to believe today's conversation is even happening because today we get to talk to the woman behind that incredible voice and performance. I mean, are we lucky or what? Actually, are we lucky or what is the motto our guest lives by. According to her daughter, She'll even say it under the worst of circumstances, like in the middle of a thunderstorm when the power goes out. But a whole lot more than luck has shaped this glorious woman's incomparable career. She's been working professionally since she was just 10 years old, performing in a vaudeville act with her family,

singing all over England, even performing at age 13 for King George the 6th and the future Queen Elizabeth. She originated the leading roles in the Broadway productions of My Fair Lady and Camelot, the latter of which put her in front of the eyes of Walt Disney himself, who cast her in the iconic role of Mary Poppins. And off she went to do all these other incredible films, S.O.B, Victor Victoria, the Americanization of Emily, and of course, there's the sound of music. And lucky for us, she's still working today. She's a prolific, off. who's written dozens of children's books with her daughter Emma and continues to star in some of the most beloved family films in history like Princess Diaries and Shrek. You'll even hear her voice as Lady Whistledown in Bridgerton on Netflix. So I am a little overcome that today I'll be talking to the Academy Award winning, Emmy winning, Grammy winning, BAFTA winning,

songstress herself, a true English rose, the star of my favorite movie, a woman who is so much wiser than me, Dame Julie Andrews. Hi, Julie. Hello, my dear. How are you? I'm so good. I'm so good. I'm very happy to meet you, my dear. Oh, I'm so happy to meet you, too. I've never had as good an introduction as that. Thank you so much, Julia. A felonet, a name that is actually my name too. I was born and prisoned Julia. And it was changed to Julie when my mother remarried Ted Andrews and Julia Andrews didn't roll off the tongue as well as Julie. Yes. So they changed it. And I didn't know much about it at the time. But do people call you Julia ever? No, only maybe great aunts and people like that. Mostly, no, I'm Julie and have been for a long, long time.

It suits you. Are you at home? I am at home. And where is that? I'm in Santa Barbara, California. Oh, no. Yes. Then you know my chum, Carol, very well.

Yes, you know my chum Carol very well. We've become friends, as a matter of fact. She's adorable, and it's such a great friend. Oh, well, we'll talk about that. So, Julie, are you comfortable if I ask your real age? Yeah, I don't mind at all. I am, I believe, 88. And how old do you feel?

Well, I probably feel like in my 50s, honest to God, as long as the brain holds out, I'm doing okay, you know, and I don't feel bad at all, no. Well, what do you think is the best part of being your age, Julie? I don't know. There are times when it's a nuisance and I want to do, well, I want to do more and I want to exercise more and all of those things. But with the accompanying sort of aches and pains, I bitch a lot about it. about it, but I actually, the best part is, to a certain extent, people leave me alone, and that I'd rather like. Because otherwise, but I mean, I'm being slightly facetious.

No, that's fine. You can just let it all hang out. I'd love it. Thank you. Thank you. But wait a minute, when you say they leave you alone, what does that actually, in fact, mean? Because of your age? What does that mean?

No, it's because I don't do as much. I don't go out as much. and I love being home. Oh, yeah. And so life is quieter these days. But I kind of enjoy that pulling back a little bit now. And, of course, I've got a million thoughts and ideas and hope that I can keep going for a great deal longer.

But who knows? And I'm just pleased that I've arrived here. Oh, I'm so pleased you've arrived here, too. You know, when we were putting together a wish list, to have these conversations with various people, You were absolutely at the top of that wish list, so I want to just take a breath and say thank you again for being here today because I admired you my entire life. Well, I'm thrilled to have been asked, Julia, and it's a lovely medium to be on and to see your face and you're seeing mine. And yet here we are privately in our homes.

Yes, exactly. Yeah, are we lucky or what? That's exactly right. Listen, I was so pleased, Julie, to discover that you love cursing. You're a cursor. Am I right? Oh, yeah. Yeah, you're very body.

Quite free. And I, honestly, I, myself, I mean, I feel to a certain extent that I've kind of built half of my career on that. And I even cursed once in front of Elmo on Sesame Street back in the day. Do you have a favorite curse word? No, not really. I mean, on an average every day, there's a couple of them, S-H-I-Ts that pop in, but more, oh, God, what favorite curse word. Yeah. My mother had a beautiful curse word because she was much boredier and alive than I was or am.

But because of the times and because she was raised, as they say in Cockney, she was brung up proper. she would say, oh, pee, Poe, bum, drawers, meaning knickers. So, P, obviously, Poe, meaning the commode, and bum being your backside and drawers being your knickers. So it resonated. I don't say it. I just remember it vividly, and I would laugh always. That's hilarious. And what's particularly funny is that it seems so benign to me.

Yeah, it does to me. Right? Yeah. But, I mean, I'm not, I don't go into it. much. I don't think I curse as much as everybody else thinks I do. And maybe because it's Mary Poppins uttering whatever I utter and I go at it whenever I need to. But I think that's a surprise, really. Yes, I think so because you played so many so-called good girl characters. What's your go-to word, Julie? Oh, well, come on, Julie. It's fuck. Yeah. Well, I do have some of this. Mostly, I guess,

Oh, so it's shit, isn't it with me? You're not that bad. You're not like me. No, stop. No, no, it's true. I'm very bad. And, you know, I did a show called Veep, and there was a lot. It was very scary show.

But, you know, of course, the Brits use certain words that Americans are taken aback by. You know the ones I'm talking about. I know they do. Yeah. Yeah. So I won't, I think I won't utter those words today. But you know the ones I'm talking about for female anatomy. and I, it really became a part of my vocabulary after a couple of years in their presence, I have to say. Well, that's very useful sometimes.

I really do think, yeah. Yeah, I think it is too. But, you know, it's funny that you say that I think that maybe you just utter a shit and people are probably, maybe it takes their breath away because, of course, all the characters you play were very sort of Pollyanna types. Good girls. Exactly. In what ways do you think that good girl image has served you or has gotten in your way, if you were going to say? That's a good question.

I think to the extent that I began to be typecast for my image, and it's so far from the truth, I mean, I'm a much, I know I'm a much more bawdy, broad, as they used to say, than Mary Poppins. or whatever, but it's now of no consequence because I've done enough that's different. Yes, indeed. And I think enough people know that know me that it's, I'm not that prim and proper. Of course I'm not. No, of course. Although my voice sometimes gets in the way or gives me away, one of the two. Yeah, exactly.

And, I mean, are you a rebel? Are you a nonconformist, you, Julie Andrews? Oh, I hope so. I do. Yeah, I am, I think, but not to the extent, I mean, as Eliza Doolittle used to say, oh, a good girl I am, and I kind of know when to be a rebel and when not to be. I like to be a family when working. I'm sure you do too, Julia. It's so lovely to have great collaborators and great people around you and all of that. And when you find them, you must cling to them, don't you think? I think so. Yes, I do. Keep them in your orbit.

Yes. Real. Yeah, because it's very, very good. And as you have pointed out on one or two podcasts, I think, now, that laughter is, yeah, obviously, phenomenal, but it's such a joy and it frees you up so much. And if you can be really healthfully anything from boredy to laughing your head off or weeping with laughter, that's where I land, I think. Yeah, that's the best possible place to be, isn't it? I mean, all sorts of endorphins, I think, are released. I mean, it's actually a physical reality that laughing is a release.

It's a release, and it's good physically for the body. It is good, and I think weeping, too, is. But sometimes when the two get combined, I get helpless. I mean, I laugh so hard and I weep so much at the idiocy of what I'm hearing. But really, but of course, I was married. for 43 years to Blake, Blake Edwards. And if you don't laugh with that man, then you better get out of the room.

You know, he made me laugh so hard sometimes. Oh, I'm sure. And I think that it's partially what held our marriage together, the great laughter. We'll get more wisdom from Julie Andrews after this super quick break. Stay tuned. Hey, Prime members. Did you know you can listen to Wiser than me, ad-free on Amazon Music? Download the Amazon Music app today to start listening ad-free.

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I'm not sure about that part of it. I think that my mum, who was very much boredier and more alive than I seem to be, but she used to say there's always somebody around that can do it better than you. And so do good things and be grateful because there are so many people that have talent but don't get the breaks. And that's, I think, where I land mostly. and it's all a learning experience. I'm still learning. You know, I was interested that you said that you hid your Oscar for Mary Poppins in the attic for a while.

And I was wondering, did you feel you didn't deserve it? Probably, yes, I think that's true. I didn't want to show off. I was very new to this lovely craft that we're all in, and in terms of movies and things. And also, I did have a hunch maybe that perhaps it was given in lieu of not getting the role of Eliza in the movie of My Fair Lady. And I had been passed up for that, and I understood it perfectly well. But, of course, it made me sad that I couldn't have a good crack at it on film, though I'd never done a movie before when I made Mary Poppins. And so thank goodness, Walt saw something that was appropriate for Mary.

And I didn't mind not doing my fair lady, but I wish I'd had a chance of some kind to put it down on record. I did do excerpts on television and on different shows, but it would have been fun and interesting to see what became of Eliza Doolittle. when if I had been in, you know, mind you, I was in the show for about three and a half years, yeah. So you felt like to a certain extent you owned it. It was you felt the character you were playing, you gave your heart and soul to it. Well, it took me a long time to get there,

but I mean, I had a long time to get there. And, yeah, it was something like that. But I really felt that in a way, the Academy was generous enough to honor me for Poppins because in a way it was saying you should have got the other one or something like that. There was so much talk about it at the time. So I kind of hid the Oscar away. Didn't want to show off, didn't want to parade it in my office or anything like that. But I hope it's out of the attic. Is it? Oh, yeah, it is. Yes. I mean, I was

absolutely thrilled and my mother was terribly thrilled. But I think I was very grateful to it. It was a beautiful beginning. And I couldn't have been more welcomed. Your acceptance speech, by the way, is divine. Oh, you know how to spoil a girl. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And Americans do. I didn't mean to say you Americans, but yeah, that's right. But I felt that. Yeah. They really do. Yeah. So, by the way, your memoir is so beautiful. Oh, thanks. Really beautiful. You've done your homework, my God. Yes. Well, we take this seriously. I mean, you take the time to talk to us. We want to take the time to come at you with, you know, thoughtful stuff based on what you've done. Thank you. But in your memoir, you said something that struck me that I thought was interesting.

You describe your childhood self as being bossy. Oh, that's easy. Tell me, what ways were you bossy? Well, I had three brothers, and I was the eldest child. So, of course, they thought me bossy. And because my parents were in showbiz and traveled a lot and were away a lot, usually ended up being the head honcho in the family when they were away because I was the eldest. And so I think bossy was given that name by then probably more than anybody else. But yeah, I can be a bit bossy. But only, you know, we get a reputation for that. And yet it's only in search of something being as good as it possibly can. And it's not being bossy. Yes. I'm sure you feel that way. I do. I think I'm probably very bossy.

In fact, I'm sure of it. I'm sure that my husband would say. You don't look very bossy. I can be very tough. How long have you been married? I've been married for, wait, 36 years. 37 actually coming up, yeah. So quite a while.

Quite an achievement, too. Yes, it is. Yeah, it is. I'm proud, although I also am like, oh, my God, that's so long. It's like. Yeah, but in a way, you go through so many phases. in a marriage. Boy, I'll say, yeah.

You know, there's physical love and adoration and admiration. And then there comes the kind of understanding love and then the tolerant love and the understanding of your mate more. And it just, there's so many phases that one goes through, I feel. And I don't know how Blake and I managed it, but we did. And I also admired him very much. And as I say, he made me laugh. And anybody that does that is great in my book.

Is the keeper. But Julie, you had a pretty chaotic upbringing with your family battling poverty and alcoholism. Well, you have to remember, Julia, I didn't know anything else. It's what was handed to me. And I became so incredibly fortunate. I thank God for the gift of singing and a singing voice. I had a phenomenal teacher who was with me until she was. passed away and I had such unbelievable help that I think age is about passing on teaching what

you know in a gentle way or set it. I don't think it's exactly setting an example but I'd love to and hope to do one of those podcasts that are a class, a master class. And I'm talking about that because I thought in terms of performing and particularly with lyrics and using them well and so on, there's a number of wonderful ways to do that. And I'd love to pass that on to young singers who are very talented but don't have that extra bullet in their gun, if you know what I'm saying. What is that extra bullet, Julie? Is it about absorbing the lyrics and almost?

And acting them? Well, every song is, I mean, I can't sing a song that doesn't have good lyrics. And that sounds very stupid. But for instance, remember there's a, I don't mean to put it down, it's a pretty melody, but remember feelings? Oh, whoa, whoa, feelings. Well, I couldn't do that song. I wasn't good at doing the, oh, whoa, woes and things like that.

I had to find a way to delve into the song and find out what it meant. And I once couldn't sing a song. It was a blues song called Come Rain or Come Shine, which I'm sure you know, and which I adore. It's Harold Arlen. And, you know, I'm going to love you like nobody's loved you, Come Rainer, Come, or Come Shine. And my tutor one day said, I said, it's not my kind of song.

I don't sing sort of bluesy or that kind of deep song. And she said, make it about the theatre. Now, think of the lyrics, and oh, my God, it changed my life. Oh. Isn't that wonderful author? And so, wow. I said, oh, and so, you know, I'm going to be true if you let me, you know, come rain or come out of the money, but I'm with you always, come in. I mean, it couldn't be more appropriate to being in this wonderful business.

And I know you'll get exactly what I mean. So it's that kind of thing. what you mean. And if you can find your way into a song, if it's something else, but you make it a song about how you feel about your husband when he's standing at the dresser after his shower or something like that, it brings into it. If you make that, if you take it on and adopt that attitude, it's very, very helpful. Well, it's an acting exercise is really what you're describing. Of course, it's all about the, I'm big on lyrics. I've directed a few things, which I've loved doing.

And to see young people and talented people suddenly grasp that if you just emphasize that word or think about it, let's go and do that again and so on, it can be enormously helpful and was to me over the years. You know, it's all learning and you never stop. Well, I'm jumping around here because since we're talking about lyrics recently, just a couple days ago, I watched Sound of Music for the 3,000th time, happily so. And I was so struck because first of all, my favorite things, the lyrics for that tune. A great, aren't they? Yes. And what I was so struck by was the lyrics are like a basis for a gratitude practice, almost like cognitive behavioral

therapy. I simply remember my favorite things, and then I don't feel so bad. But also picking your favorite things or remembering them as you say. Identifying them. Yes. Mind you, when I did that, and I don't mean to cop out, but that was my second movie. And so I didn't know as much about it as I do now. And I wish that I'd known some of the things I know now. But except, Julie, in that performance that you gave, I hear what you're saying, that perhaps you weren't thinking of it quite like that then. But your instinct, when you perform that song and how you absorbed it, conveyed that regardless. It really did. Our music director, Saul Chaplin, a very lovely guy who worked hand in glove with Robert Wise, our director, he said, why don't we try?

reciting the first two lines, you know, raindrops on roses. Oh, and then the orchestra comes in. And I was so grateful to him because it was exactly what I thought should be done. But he said, go with it. And the orchestrator went with it. And it sort of brought the song from dialogue into music in a lovely way. Yes, it was seamless, absolutely seamless. And the same, by the way, is true not to harp too much on this,

but in the sound of music, the theme. of nature, actually, the themes of nature throughout the entire film are... That's very much where Oscar Hammerstein was. I mean, all his songs have birds and nature brought into them. I mean, to be truthful, no, it's not very, it's churlish of me, but one of the lyrics that I couldn't wrap my head around, the only one in the entire film was like a lark who is learning to pray. And that was a little, and so I rushed through it as quickly as I can and got onto the next line or the next stanza, because I don't know how to say that.

But let me ask you a question. Is that because it didn't make sense to you? Yes, yeah. Because I thought it was a bit sort of, you know, artsy-fartsy. But Oscar loved to write like that and set the pattern to that and trained Sondheim and all those brilliant composers. And Sondheim ran with that, but just came up with such a stringent lyrics that were, he is, I think, almost one of my favorite lyricists. He is my favorite lyricist. Forget about it.

He is. He is absolutely incredible. I think that is so amazing that that one phrase in the song, that you got stuck on it, and you blew past it, and that's good. And it's about the natural world, that tune. It's about the value of being in nature, you know, what the Japanese often call forest bathing. Again, sort of a practice. Do they really? I've never heard that.

Oh, yes. Isn't it marvelous? No, that's wonderful. Yeah, I get it. This whole notion of being out in the wilderness, it's a forest bath, and that we all must do it, that tune absolutely speaks to that. And I know that your life in the natural world, you have a huge bond with Switzerland. I do. And also my garden and what I put in my garden.

And I can't wait for spring this year because with all this rain, it's going to look beautiful. My daffodils will come out and my bluebells will come out. And I try to, not in an obsessive way, but I like to kind of plan a succession of things that I can look forward to blossoming and so on. Love all that. Julie, we have that in common because I do the same. I have my daffodils are coming up now. My bluebells, yes.

And I have daffodils and narcissists. And then when they peter out, my bluebells will come up. And it's a blue world, isn't it? And when the, yeah, lovely. I'm so pleased, that's so special. I'm glad we have that in common. Tell me about your life in Switzerland. And how much time do you spend there and what do you do when you're there?

I'm dying to know. Well, Blake and I have had a chalet there for 60 years maybe now. Just after we first met, we took a vacation with our kids, not just after, but, you know, when we were really a team and beginning to be a family. And we fell in love with this beautiful place called Stard in Switzerland. And the beauty of it is stunning. I mean, stunning. And you talk about wildflowers blooming and things like that.

My dad was a great lover also of nature. And so my real dad, that is, or the man I thought was my real dad. But he taught me so much about tree. He could see the outline of a tree in winter and know what it was. and I could not do that, and I've been trying ever since and can't. He'd say, oh, that's a lime tree, or that's a such-and-such-and-such tree, but it didn't have a blossom on it, you know. So you said the man that you thought was your real dad, so your real dad?

Oh, no, my mom, when I was about 14, said to me, we'd gone to some kind of event, and a man sat and talked to me for quite a while, and obviously it had been planned, and on the way home, she said, did you like him? and I said, yeah, okay, it struck me as odd that he spent as much time on me at this odd party. And she said, well, he was your dad, in fact, Julie. And I could feel this freight train coming at me. But in fact, it all worked out pretty well because it was nothing I could do about it.

And he always sent me a loving Christmas card, but didn't interfere at my request because I didn't know whether the man I thought was my dad knew. after he passed away, it transpired that he did, and it didn't make any difference. And I wish he and I could have talked about it more, but I loved him so much for that. He was a darling, and he absolutely was a countryman, and the man I thought was my real dad. And I had vacations with him and all of that, because in truth, he was my dad. He raised me. You know, the man that I thought was my dad, yeah.

I mean, whenever I could see him, I did. And what would that conversation have been like? Had you been able to talk to him, do you think? Well, I don't know. I just know that I think it would have made an even more on my part, even more love for him. Once I found out, my love knew no bounds because he was so generous and had no compunction in taking me on and was so proud of me and never, ever let me feel that I want. wasn't his daughter. And since I didn't know, he was my dad, and he did raise me. So

truthfully, that's where I arrived eventually. But the man that raised me, he was a lovely nature man, and he too would drive me to certain places in the country where the bluebells were rampant. And oddly enough, like a lark was learning to pray, he took me up a hill near where he used to live in Surrey, the county of Surrey, in his... England. And he said one night, he collected me from the theatre, walked me down to spend a weekend with him. And he said, I want you to just hear something. And he got me out of the car at the crest of the hill and said, and he took me to a five-barred gate, a big country gate, and said, now listen. And nightingales all over the South Downs were singing. And you can imagine how magical

that was. And that's the kind of nature man he was. and he taught me, I think my love of books, my love of writing. You know, 76, this man that I thought was my dad, went back to college and got a degree in German at 76. I mean, he was an amazing man. He said, well, I've got to do something. I've got to use my brain. And he was loved and loved poetry.

He got a degree in German, you said? Speaking German. Speaking German. So he took on a new language at 70. That's extraordinary. It's extraordinary. Yeah, that's right. It's time for a quick break, but don't worry. There's more with Julie Andrews and just a bit. So I want to talk about friendship. We had Carol Burnett on this podcast. I heard her. I heard her and I love her so much.

Isn't she divine? Yes, she is. And honest and real and unbelievably talented. I mean, I admire her so much. I do too. And she makes me better, which is odd. She brings out the worst in me, the most boredy in me. I do not know why, but she does. And we laugh a lot. Well, what is it about her that you connected with when you first met? We're very similar in some ways. She had a grandma that raised her, parents that were alcoholics, as I did, and one way and another, we, in our own countries, you know, I'm from England, she's from here, we bonded tremendously straight away. It was as if two ladies discovered that they lived on the same block and they hadn't ever been introduced.

But once they were, it was, we bonded straight away. And every 10 years, as you probably know, we managed to get. a special made together and each special became first of all it was like who are you dating and you know are you going to get married and so on then it was about parent teacher conferences and having to pick up the kids from school and then eventually by the time of the third or whatever outing that we had together on film or tape it was like do you take metamutal and stuff like that And we don't see each other as much as I wish we did because she's on one end of the country

and now I'm out here on the East Coast. But it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter where we are. We just pick up where we left off. It's so easy. Yes, that's a true friendship. And the very first one we did together, which was Julie and Carol at Carnegie Hall,

I'll never forget that she was the one that gave me the strength and the courage. And before we taped, was twice. We taped one big rehearsal and then the big night. And I remember we made an entrance. She on one side of the stage and I was on the other side and we looked at each other across the stage. We were about to make that first entrance and we were doing thumbs up and blowing kisses. But it was because I could see her across from me and I felt her strength and I also knew she knew mine. And so you had each other's backs.

Yeah, we were there, and we weren't going to pull rank and we weren't going to be foolish, I hope. Well, foolish in the right way, I hope. Yes, of course. Yeah. And you must have met then doing theater in New York because she was probably doing, what, mattress or whatever? Well, yes, it probably was. I met her during Camelot when I was there, and yes, she was.

And I first of all did one of her shows, which was the Gary Moore show that she was on. Oh, that's right. And then she did, once a while. upon a mattress, I happily was able to see that because her day off was, I guess, my day off, yeah. And so my manager at the time said, you two have to eat, you adore each other, which is quite often the kiss of death. Yes, most of the time they don't know what they're talking about, but in this case, it was a great good fortune. Magical. And nobody else got a word

in edgeways. And so you've stayed connected all these years. It's quite remarkable. All these years. I wonder, is there any advice you might have to give to people who are listening to this to younger people about cultivating and maintaining friendships, which I think personally are one of the big keys to longevity and wellness? Well, why would anybody pull rank when your friends are so loyal and talented and smart and how lovely that you can all bond and either work together or appreciate each other in some way, I don't know. I just think it's great. And I just about love everybody that I have worked with. And I actually can't remember anybody that ticked me off in such a way that I wasn't happy.

And that is such a good fortune, I think. Oh, yeah. It certainly is. Bravo to both of you. Thank you. It's fabulous. Okay, so let's switch gears for a second. I wanted to talk to you about your voice. You started having trouble with it in 1997. I think you had nodules on your vocal chords. Julie, is that right? How should I explain it? No, it wasn't. That was what was so painful to comprehend. Eventually, it wasn't that at all. How can I explain it well enough? When you, if you hop on one knee long enough, and it sounds stupid, when you hop on one leg long enough, that leg will buckle and you will get a kind of striation in the limb that is just a bit its muscle and oh there's another word I'm looking for like a stress fracture or a tear or like tissue that becomes a little bit more hardened because you've been using it so much but it did lead think of this it did lead to my saying I've got to do I'm in a year of waiting and depression and all those kinds of of things. But it led to my finding a new life, which is the one with my daughter and writing. I thought

I have to do something and be good for something or begin to be good at something. And that's what came out of it. And I've gotten over it. I think I would have stopped singing pretty quickly anyway because I was getting that much older. And I would have been 65 or something when I finally began writing with my Emma. And it's been such a joy, this part of my life, this latter part of my life, that I have gotten over it. It was a bad period, but, and I, you can imagine, I adore music, and I love classical music and all of those things. But can you talk a little bit about the experience? I mean, you had surgery, and did you know after it that something had change for you that something had had shifted for you yeah absolutely yeah it wouldn't recover it

wouldn't recover and i eventually found an absolutely superb um vocal uh not coach but um doctor and he cleared anything up that he could which is why i'm able to speak and i'm not hoarse yeah and um i can't sing now though that's the thing and i miss it very very very much and so So let's talk about sort of the process of making the adjustment to this, Julie, because I think, you know, a lot of people, well, frankly, people have lost in their lives of varying degrees, right? Oh, they do, and far worse than mine. Well, but yours was a radical loss, I would say. And, you know, I had breast cancer diagnosis, I don't, seven years ago now, and I had to go

through that. Thank you, but I'm fine. But it was, again, it's a law. Huge. Huge. Yeah, huge learning curve, I would think, yeah. Yeah, it's your body that you know so fundamentally and that you rely on so completely. Yes, I understand that very, very well. I do. You understand it, and it's really, there's a shift that happens emotionally and intellectually. But, you know, what I learned is that, I was still duly. I couldn't do that craft.

And you've discovered, look at the strengths you've had since then and what the opportunities and so on. That wasn't all that was Julia. Right. So what advice, what would you say to those who are trying to, you know, get back up? Get past something? Yeah. What do you think?

I'm not very good at it. answering that question because I don't have it fully in my head. But I think it's to do with find what you love, keep doing something because women of my age can keep being useful. That's really a can keep giving pleasure. And I wish that I could find a voice again, but I found it in a, my daughter Emma, when I bemoaned my fate one day and was getting a bit teary, she said, mom, you've just found a different way to use your voice now. And that, the penny dropped in my brain and I became a lot more content. And now my whole focus is on communicating, teaching, writing, and helping the arts as much as I can

and combining them in some way, which is lovely. Oh, yes, it's lovely. So you met your second husband, Blake Edwards, in the parking lot of your therapist office. Is that right? No, but meeting him was on Sunset Boulevard, and I don't, you probably know, that there's that huge medium across sunset. Yes. And you can go across that. And I had to park in the middle of the medium because it had cars going both ways and cars zooming down Sunset Boulevard.

So I pulled up and waited for the traffic to clear. And a Rolls Royce on the other side pulled up, and I looked over and smiled at the very handsome man, not in any way thinking anything, but just smiled because it happened again. And then it happened again. And finally, the window of the Rolls another day was wound down, and Blake said, hello, I'm Blake Edwards, you're Julie. And I said, yes, I want an honor and thrilled to meet you. He said, are you coming, are you going to where I just came from?

and that was analysis, my analyst. And so we got to talking, and then not too many weeks later, I received a call and asked if he could come by. He asked if he could come by and run by an idea that he had. And that was the first movie we ever made together that was finally made. And it was a flop.

Was that Darling Lily? That was Darling Lily. It was a huge flop. And how we ever stayed together after that, I don't know. But we did. And then, of course, eventually. married several years later. Oh, that's so lovely.

What about him directing you? What was that like since you were, you know, first boyfriend and girlfriend and then a married couple? I know. What about him, do you like it? Did you like him as a director when he directed you? Oh, I liked him very much and I felt very, very safe because he was a good director and didn't waste time, you know, playing director.

He knew his shots. he knew what he wanted and was very knowledgeable about film and all of those things. I couldn't feel more safe. Oh, that's nice. And he'd had, you know, six ideas a week and would want to get all of them done. And I would think, oh, yeah, we'll see about that. And then they mostly all came to pass. And when I started writing, he was my biggest, he encouraged the most of anybody and said,

darling, it's what I thought of an idea and thought he might like it. And he said, do it. Just keep the pages piling up. And you have said that he had a depressive personality, right? Yes, he did. And how did you navigate that as a couple and as his wife? By learning more and more about how to deal with it and with the help of good therapy and things like that. And I did know when he would obviously, because he was a depressive at times, it would have a peak.

and then it would disappear. He loved working. He loved writing. So when he was doing that, he was usually pretty great. I see. But it was other times. And he was, he was very sad at times. And knowing his background, I'm not surprised.

Have you struggled with depression, Julie? Yes, but not like like me. I mean, occasionally. No, I mean, I was depressed when I did. did have my surgery, very depressed. But then happily, time and learning and beginning to do something else came along, and that was very good for me. Oh, I bet. So not only are you a grandmother, you are a great-grandmother, right? Yes, I am, yeah. Okay, so you're the first great-grandmother we've had on this show, so I'm very excited about that. How would you,

How would you characterize the difference between being a grandmother and then a great-grandmother? How do you distinguish those relationships? Being great-grandmother is a tiny bit more removed than being a grandma because the generation's kind of, well, children get raised differently at times and so on. But in terms of the blessing that they all are and how sweet they all are, especially the babies, I don't, I don't. care whether it's a grandchild or a great-grandchild. It could be a great-great-great if I get so lucky. But I have five kids of my own. And then I have like 10 grandchildren. And then they have like three or four. I don't know if there are any more hanging around or waiting in the wings, as we say. But they're, oh, God, they're so adorable when they're

little too. And Julie, what do they call you? Granny J-O-O-L-S. I love it. Mostly I'm known as Granny-Jules. Granny J-Jules is lovely. People call me J-U-S. Do they call you J-U-L-E-S? Yes.

Yeah. How do you spell your J-U-L-E-S? Yeah. I've been that, and now I'm W-O-O-L-S. Just, I don't know why, but it seemed easier. Yeah, it does. Okay, Jules, double O-L-S. At the end of these conversations, I always ask a couple of quick questions.

Well, for sure. This has been such a delight to talk to you. It's just been like a dream. Okay, so here's the first question. Is there something you'd go back and tell yourself when you were 21? Oh, well, it's something that I get asked a lot in terms of what advice do you have for younger people. And I think what I try to convey to everybody is finally learning the pleasure of singing and giving it back to others. I used to do it by wrote.

I was in my parents' vaudeville act and then I went out on my own for years, but it was all because I had to and we needed the money and I would come on stage and kind of clasped my hands and sing my big aria and so on. But when I learned that I could give people pleasure and really mean that I did, that realized that they come to the theatre paying good money

to see something and that they go away, hopefully feeling happier and more enlightened, let's say. It's something I learned when I was about, oh, 24, I think, something like that. And I would say, if you're passionate, do your homework to all the young people trying, because if you don't, you won't have as many chances, you won't be as good. So it's all about doing your homework and then giving it and giving the pleasure of it. And do you, is there something that you would like me to know about aging from where you sit right now? Well, yes.

Tell me. Mostly I say aging sucked. But it doesn't really. And since there's no alternative, why bitch so much about it and try to find out what I can still do and what I love to do and what gives me pleasure and so on. I see. Yeah. And what are you looking forward to? What's something you're looking forward to?

directing other things, passing on more books, if I can, because I do love doing them. I'm still learning about writing, but as long as people like what's coming out, I will continue, and I hope to get more and more confident and better, you know. But, I mean, I would love to direct more, too. So before we say goodbye, I want to tell you that last year, I took a trip with actually my very friend Paula, who produces this podcast with me, my friend, from college. Yeah. And we went hiking in the Dolomites.

Oh. Yes. And so, and the wildflowers were bananas. Exquisite, I can imagine. And, of course, what did we see when we got to high altitudes? We saw Edelweiss. That's right. And so I wanted to show you the picture of the Edelweiss.

And we took. Hello. Isn't that lovely? Yes. And every time I have to say, it was such, every time we would see one, I would scream. Adelweiss, Edelweiss. It's one of my favorite songs, by the way, from The Sound of Music. That and my favorite things, but Edelweiss is about anyone's hometown and beloved home or whatever.

I love it, too. It's exquisite. I used to finish my variety act with that. And with a full orchestra, it is almost enough to render me very, very good. tearful at times because it's very pretty. It's very pretty. It's a tender song. Well, I have no trouble bringing back happy memories or warm feelings or, and to hear the orchestrations, I love singing with an orchestra. It's like the one thing I'd love to end

with this, when you love what you do and when you sing with a symphony orchestra, I tell you, it's like my singing teacher used to say, singing with a symphony orchestra is like we lifted up in the most comfortable armchair you could sit in and being carried over the orchestra. And of course it stimulates you to sing better, to try harder. And I loved making albums and things like that very much. What joy. Isn't that a lovely analogy of how all of that turns you on to be better than you ever thought you may be better than you ever thought you could be? Yeah, it's absolutely gorgeous.

And it's a great metaphor too for a connection. Because there you are with other musicians who are lifting you up. You, no doubt, are lifting them up as well. And so there... I don't know about that. No, I guarantee it. If they tap their stands at the end of the recording or whatever, it's a great accolade. But the point being that connection is everything, don't you think, Julie?

Yes, I do. Well, I want to thank you for speaking with us today. This was a treasure. It was a lovely interview, Julie. It was nice talking about all the things, all my favorite things, as they say. Yeah, it really was. And I wish you nothing but happiness and health and laughter. Thank you.

That's what's going to do it, isn't it? Yeah, it is. I think so. I hope we meet again soon, Julia. I do too, Julie. I hope our paths cross. I just, I give you my love. If somebody that loves Carol, as much as I do, and you do,

we're all going to meet again one of these days. We're going to text her after we finish and I'm going to tell her I just spoke with you. And so. But we'll give her my love. I will. Give my chum my love, please. I will indeed. Okay, well, she's just as delightful as I dreamed she'd be. God, what a perfect way to end season two. My mom is going to freak out when I tell her about this. Okay, I got to get her on a Zoom call. Hi, Mommy. Hi, love. Hi. So, I'm. So, I'm.

I just spoke to Julie Andrews, if you can even believe that I'm telling you that. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, my God. Julie Andrews is like part of our DNA. Yeah, for real, because she was such a huge part of our family and our childhood, don't you think? And in a kind of perfect way. You know, she was sort of a perfect gifted performer. Yeah, absolutely. She looked perfect.

She spoke perfectly. and she sang perfectly. Well, one of the stories I grew up with was Mary Poppins. And my friend Judy A used to read all the Mary Poppins books, and then she would tell me about them. So I had, in my image of this Mary Poppins, it was always sort of around in the trees and so forth. And she was a perfect Mary Poppins. Yeah, she really hit that one out of the park. So, you know, speaking of perfection, she, I don't know if you know this,

but she had a lot of vocal trouble. And actually, it was very hard for her to talk about it for multiple reasons, but her singing voice is highly compromised, which is a great tragedy, really. And she has overcome this, which is beautiful. I mean, she has found her way through that with the help of her daughter and therapy, and she's become a writer, which has given her a new voice, in fact, which is wonderful. But it really did. It made me think about you because when I was 18, you got an acoustic neuroma, which is a benign tumor. But it was in your ear deep within your ear. It was on the brain's tent. So I had the test after test after test. And finally it was determined that I had a neuroma on my right. my right brain at him. And I went from, you know, playing tennis and just doing my life. And all of a sudden, this happened. And I remember that you drove, you drove me down to the hospital and your sisters were in the car.

And when I got out of the car, Daddy was going to meet me in the hospital. And when I got out of the car, I remember just a flash for a moment, I thought to myself, I may never see my girls again. Oof, oof, oof. Because in the olden days, that is to say, 20 years before, acoustic neuromas could kill people because the surgery was so intricate. And so I faced that. So I went into the surgery and then came out of the surgery.

And then as I was recovering, I very slowly began to comprehend that I was deaf in my right ear. Can you talk about that transition and what that was like for you, Mummy? You know, the thing about it is that it's so much can happen in life, which is that you are going along and you're in whole and you don't even think about your hearing or your taste or your vision because everything works. all I can say is that it equipped me to know that these wonderful things that we have that we take for granted that we have, which are human bodies, that in a flesh, you can be taken. And then I think about Julie Andrews because it didn't take away my life force. Although it did throw me into writing in a certain way, I've never quite understood exactly what that process has. been in me, but I did find, I mean, I'm so happy that she found writing, and I'm so happy that I found writing as a way of going beyond loss or going into a new life. And I always loved

literature, but it never occurred to me to make it. And the making of it, I think really it thrust me into making. And in a way, I don't think I would have, otherwise, I think I would have continued to just receive literature. That is amazing. And I hadn't considered the connection between your hearing loss and then your sort of fervor for writing and how it sort of took hold for you. And for our listeners, just in case you're interested, my mother's written two books of poetry.

Mom, what are the names of the two books of poetry? The Gatherer is the first and the unlocatable source is the second. the people's source. That's interesting in view of what we're talking about, because in a way, I wouldn't have known then that maybe a loss had led me toward the importance of expression. I mean, and I know Julie Andrew's work, she is a wonderful writer, and she's written with her daughter, too, which is a wonderful thing. And it makes me feel so good to think that I'm like, in some way like her, or have found the same path. Yes. And in some way, she's like you. And that's really nice.

I think that that is a perfect way to end this particular season of Wiveser Than Me. This is the end of season two, Mom, if you can believe it. Oh, honey, season two, can you believe? Season two. No. Well, I have to say something. My friends who are older women have appreciated and enjoyed what you're doing on this so much. and it is so important to have older women listen to

and maybe even for them to begin to appreciate who they are and what they've done. Because sometimes telling your story, it's like you have a new appreciation of it. So even they're telling it, I think, is a wonderful thing for women to do. Me too. I think so too. So there you go, Mommy.

There you go, Annie. Well, listen, you're a lot wiser than me. Now, Ma, you're wiser than me. Well, it works both ways. It works both ways. Isn't that beautiful? Yes, it's a duble. Yeah, yeah.

I love you, Mommy. I love you, honey. Talk to you later. Okay. Bye-bye. There's more wiser than me with Lemonada Premium. Subscribers get exclusive access to bonus content from each episode of the show. Subscribe now in Apple Podcast.

Make sure you're following Wiser Than Me on social media. We're on Instagram and TikTok at Wiser Than Me. And we're on Facebook at Wiser Than Me podcast. Wiser Than Me is a production of Lemonada Media, created and hosted by me, Julia Louis Dreyfus. This show is produced by Chrissy Pease, Jamila Zara Williams, Alex McOwen, and Oha Lopez. Brad Hall is a consulting producer. Rachel Neal is VP of new content and our SVP of weekly content and production is Steve Nelson. Executive producers are Paula Kaplan, Stephanie Whittles Wax, Jessica Cordova Kramer, and me.

The show is mixed by Johnny Vince Evans with engineering help from James Barber, and our music was written by Henry Hall, who you can also find on Spotify or wherever you listen to your music. Special thanks to Will Schlegel and, of course, my mother, Judy Bowles. Well, we've had a great run, dear listeners, and because this is our last episode of the season and because it takes a lot of people to make a show like this. You wouldn't believe it, really. I wanted to peel back the curtain and quickly thank all of the many wise people who helped make this podcast possible. Our rock star marketing team includes Lizzie Breyer Bowman, Jackie Westfall, Sahar Baharlou, Rose Dennis, Amber Girardi Robinson, Sarah Richardson, and Shannon Mac. Thanks to our friends in business development, Sisi Dongbrin, Val Baudertha, Mia Li Chiardi, Ron Russ, and Dana Wiccans.

With additional support from Catherine Barnes, Brian Castillo, Autumn Dornfeld, Christina Perdomo Fernandez, Rochelle Green, and Noah Smith. Follow Wiser than me wherever you get your podcast. And if there's an old lady in your life, listen up. Thank you.