Wiser Than Me with Julia Louis-Dreyfus - Presenting: Julia on Conan O'Brien Needs A Friend

Episode Date: December 21, 2025

The Wiser Than Me team is taking a little holiday break, but while we’re away, we’re excited to share a few conversations with friends. Today, we’re bringing you an episode of the hit podcast Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend. Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend is a weekly opportunity for legendary late-night comedian Conan O’Brien to hang out with the people he enjoys most and perhaps find some real friendship along the way. In this episode, Julia joins Conan to chat about the inspiration for Wiser Than Me, discovering her comedic talents in a grade school play, and the importance of constantly trying new things.If you want to hear more from Conan, check out Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend wherever you get your podcasts.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey, it's me, Julia Louis Dreyfus. We are officially back with a brand new season of Wiser Than Me. To celebrate your out-of-this-world support for our show, we've been brewing up something special, a wiser than me, mere traveler. It's a versatile, sustainable travel mug to keep your coffee hot and your tea cozy all year round. It's perfect for wise women on the go. Head over to wiser than me shop.com to grab yours now. Okay, here's the show. Lemonada Hi, Wiseer the Me listeners, it's Julia. We're taking a little holiday break, but while we're away, I wanted to share a conversation I had with my good friend Conan O'Brien on his podcast, Conan O'Brien needs a friend. We talked about what inspired me to start this podcast, my very first, first grade school play, where I realized I might have a knack for comedy and a few other things. I think you're really going to enjoy it.

And after you listen, check out Conan O'Brien needs a friend wherever you get your podcast to hear Conan's conversations with folks like Jeff Goldblum, Bill Hader, Amy Poehler, and many more. Happy holidays from all of us here at Wiser Than Me. Uh, my name is Julia Louis Dreyfus. Hi. And I feel. You know, not much. Okay. About being coded of Brian's friends.

So it's like a, it's a dead feeling. It's a really, you just feel dead. No, it's not dead. I mean, I feel very much alive personally, but when I. Fall is here, hear the yell, back to school, ring the bell, brandy shoes, walking loose, climb the fence, books and pens, I can tell that we are going to need friends. I can tell never we are going to be friends. Hello and welcome.

Dakota O'Brien needs a friend. I put a tiny pause in there after hello and welcome and then the title of the podcast just to create drama. Dramatic tension? Incredible tension. Anything could happen this episode now. I don't think anybody knew what we were listening to. Anything could happen and anything will.

Oh my God. I don't feel safe. I've triggered you with my son. silences. How's everybody doing? How are you, Mr. Gourley? I'm doing pretty good. We haven't seen each other in a while because you've been gallivanting and globetrotting. I've been globetrotting, gallivanting out there doing my thing. Yeah, I've covered a lot of ground, but I'm back. You got sick. Yeah, I've got a little sick. Yeah, that's all right. It's just what happens. When I travel a lot, I always catch a cold when I'm in the plane a lot. And some people say it's the selfies. I love to.

I will offer a selfie if someone doesn't even want one. Oh, no. Yeah, I'll be like, hey, you, you want a selfie? What? Don't you want a selfie? I was a late night king. What? There goes all the dramatic tension.

Yeah. I was a late night king. There, that's their tension for you. Anyway, yeah, so if someone has a cold in any of the places I've been, I will catch it. Yeah. And how about you, Sona? How are you? I'm good.

I feel like I don't want to say this because it makes me sound really stupid. But, you know, I live in Altadena and there's a lot of animals there. Like, and we have friends down the street. These guys, Jeff and Amanda, and they're wonderful. And they always warn us if there's animals. When you say animals, when you mean like, bears, peacocks, coyotes, like, legit animals. Peacocks? Yeah, there's peacocks just chilling on our street.

In our neighborhood, too. Yeah, what is that about? I think they're all from Arcadia and the Arboretum. They all escaped. Oh, good on it. What? I hate when you have the answer. Is that true?

It is true. They're escaped peacocks? I don't know if they, I think they are escaped from, yeah, the Arboretum. You know, it's funny. We took our daughter there and it stole her grilled cheese. Well, could have been anyone. Don't you, you know, to immediately accuse a peacock. We saw it happen.

Oh, you saw the peacock do it. I have to say, L.A. is a very strange place because these animals get loose. There's a whole bunch of parrots. that live in our neighborhood that clearly they escaped and they're up in the trees and they all know filthy limericks once was a lady from Nantucket

you knew how to suck it you know and you're like I'm trying to raise my children and it's awful it's terrible but yeah there's very strange animals roaming around L.A. And Altadena it's a little out there. It's up there

It's up there. It's an elevation. You live up the mountains. Yeah. So our neighbor Jeff texted us and was like, a bobcat headed towards your backyard. I love it. I love it. I immediately thought he meant the machine and not the animal.

Oh, I thought you were going to say Bobcat, Goldwit. So this is why this is stupid. But wait a minute. You thought Bobcat meaning the snowmobile? What? Like a pool excavator? Wait, what are we talking about? This is so stupid.

What? This is why I didn't want to sell this story. Bobcat is a... Yeah, that's, I thought that's what he meant. It's a, it's like a snowmobile. I thought someone rented a bobcat. Or a little mini tractor. Yeah.

And then was driving it into our backyard. Oh my God. It's so stupid. But then, but then I have to pull this up. It's very quick and it's very easy because it's so stupid. But this is what I thought he was talking about. I thought he was talking about the machine. I'm just going to search Bobcat because that's the only...

When I heard Bobcat, I thought, the thing that races around on the snow, Bobcat. Is that not what Bobcat is? No, you're talking about a bobsled. I'm thinking about the machine. The tractor. Should we clean this up then?

Because my thing might be too confusing. No, we're talking about it. It's fine. All right, all right. It's nice for people to see your flaws and foibles. So he tells us that, and then he just went, Bobcat just went towards your backyard. And I go, a real one?

You still mean a real tractor? Like, I thought he was. What if it was a bobcat riding one of the, those little vehicles. That would be great. And he looked at you and he winked right at the camera and went, get it? It was so stupid. So this whole time he's texting me, warning me about this animal, I think he's talking

about the machine. So he goes, no, bobcat golf weight. Yes, a bobcat. Oh, wow. And I go, why? Why? Oh, Jesus. So all this time, you could have been rescuing your twins in the backyard from a murdering wild

animal and instead you're going back and forth like bobcat real one what do you mean bobcat gulchoo and meanwhile on the background he's like wrapping them up in tortillas yeah yeah so it just went and then he goes and then i go why and he goes maybe steve gudenberg was running around so we're just having two different conversation it's so stupid and then i and then it hit me and i go i thought you meant the machine and i was like like someone rented a bobcat and was going to do work in our backyard and then it hit me and And I was like, fuck a bobcat. Yeah, my children are back there.

And I just covered them in ham gravy. As is in an old Armenian tradition when children go out to play alone in the backyard. This is serious business. When we moved into our house, we inherited two bunnies and they were killed by a bobcat. Oh, yeah, I think you, and then didn't you make a thing for them so they would be saved? Well, this is sad, but the bobcat took one of them and we thought it was a coyote. So I coyote proofed their pen. By the way, the people that gave us this were the people that lived there prior and said,

oh, there's never been an issue. Well, they had three large dogs. So they were keeping the, we didn't have those. And so I coyote proofed it. And then the next day, the other one was gone. Wait. So when you coyote proof something, it doesn't bobcat proof it? No, because bobcats are actually small.

They're not much bigger than a house cat. So I made like a mesh fence that a bobcat could still get through. I didn't know there were bobcats. I got a call not too long ago that there was a ram in my backyard. and I was so excited. It was a Dodge Ram. And it was doing figure eight. It was the realtor.

And we could just keep doing this on and on and on. I got to call it. There was a segue in my backyard. And I said, the scooter. And they said, no, just the transition between speech. And our guest today. My guest today. Hold on.

There's more. No, there's not. You, I had the perfect way in. You fucked it up. Speaking of segues, my guest today played one of the most iconic sitcom characters of all time, Elaine Benis on Seinfeld. She also won six consecutive Emmys for her role as Selena Meyer

on the HBO series Veep. God, that's a funny show. Now she has a new podcast, Wiser Than Me, available wherever you get your podcasts. I'm thrilled, delighted. She's here today. Julia Louis Dreyfus, welcome. Thank you so much for being here.

Well, thank you for including me in your fancy situation. Oh, are we being videotaped? Yeah. Oh, God. I should have gotten proper hair and makeup. You look amazing. No, I don't. Yeah, you do.

You do. All right. There you go. Thank you. Assuming. But I should put. Lipstick on. I'd put lipstick on.

You want some of mine? I'm going to give you my lipstick. Please wear a lipstick for this episode. Please put some lipstick on. But then my germs will be on, is it okay if I really use that? I don't care. Oh, wow. It's your color, too.

It's kind of a copper. Yeah, okay. A cop. All right. Because you should know I have. I don't know anything about this. Okay. You put it on like an idiot.

Look at this. Because I haven't done it before. God. Oh, no. You look like a drunk clown. Oh, God. How does it look so good on her and so awful on you? Well, first of all, I have to say, the color's not bad on him. That's what I'm saying. Right? Yeah. This would be my color. What color is this? So I know. It's made by Mac cosmetics and it's faux. Okay. Well, we know what my color is, is foe, and I'm committing to this. Good. Now, at some point, I might wipe it off if we start talking about something really heavy. I don't know. I might wipe it off. So much of it is not the only issue, really honestly, it does look good, is that it's out of bounds, which is, which is, does have sort of an insane asylum look to it. Do you know what I mean?

A real joker thing going on. But isn't that the classic thing when a, uh, can I fix your lips? Yes. Okay. Does this fuck up the podcast? No, not at all. This is dynamic. It enhances. Yeah. Oh, I had the stream once. Okay. Quiet. Okay. Quiet. Yeah. Wow. Wow. That's good. This is special. Does anybody have makeup remover? This man has done a number. Look here at me. Yeah, it's better. Okay, now mascara. Okay, now listen, we'll leave your fantasies out of this man. Damn. Hose, panty hose. Sonner will tell you that I am a serial over-applier. Oh, my God. Like when I put sunblock on or anything on. It's an angry, like. It's an angry kind of Irish Catholic.

Yeah, but that's good about sunscreen. Yeah, but when I brush my teeth, I brush them real hard and my gums bleed and I've had dentists say your skull is coming apart because of the way you brush your teeth. Okay. And I'll say, I just hate myself. And they go, yeah, you've got to try and just chill when you brush your teeth. But listen, back to me and then. And then back to you again.

And then back to me a third time. And then getting to me. Wow, I think. yeah we're running out of time pretty much done you were right to really not feel anything when you came in here

you were right your instincts were on target this is your second appearance on the podcast okay yeah and so clearly you were delighted

or your team was delighted so they had you come back yes your wishes I just love having you here you are adored You know that. Well, that's very nice of you to say. I actually did have a good time when I was on your podcast last time.

It was one of the first podcasts I'd ever done, I think. And now you have a podcast. Oh, yeah, and now I have a podcast. You have a podcast now, and I listened to your interview with Jane Fonda, and I thought it was great. Thank you. You have a terrific podcast voice. I'm not a fan of my voice, but I think your voice is really good. Thank you.

It's a great idea for a podcast, too, wiser than me. Wiser than me, yeah. Which is, you're talking to older women. Getting there of wisdom. That's the plan. When I first heard you heard, you had a podcast and that you had done a bunch, my initial thought was, I was hurt that I wasn't invited. And then I heard that the premise was I'm talking to older women. And then I thought, again, I still think I could qualify.

Come on as just, you know, a guy who's right on the edge, maybe. But it's a terrific idea. Yeah, it's really good. Thank you. Yeah, it's been kind of mind-expanding to do it. And also, daunting, because I'm talking to some hyper-intelligent people. And so, but I got the idea because I saw, did you see Jane Fonda's, the documentary about her? Yeah, Jane Fonda in five acts. Yeah. And I was so blown away by the scope of her life and everything that she's done and thought, And then I started thinking, well, we need, why are we not hearing from older women? Right.

I mean, for real, why are we not hearing from older women? And so that was really the genesis of this. And it's been just pretty mind-blowing that I talked to Isabelle Iende and Rand Leibowitz, please, so fabulous. But lots of it, but all walks of life. And it's been darling love. and I'm talking to Carol Burnett tomorrow. That's amazing. I know.

People throw around national treasure and you think, yeah, Carl Burnett, she should be in there. Sometimes they throw that term around and you think, no, not national treasure. Right. But, yes, my God. My God. My God. And she's like going to be 90. Oh, yes.

Isn't that remarkable? Yeah, she's going to be 90 years old. God love her. She looks great. Yeah. What an extraordinary life she's had. Anyway, so it's been interesting just to look, to do it through the lens of, you know, give me tips from the front lines of life, which is where you are. Right.

And tell us, tell me what I should know. What do you wish you had known now that you know it? And, you know, and it's been pretty fantastic. Something happened. I think for most of human history, we revered old people. That's right. They were the elders. Yeah.

We made them the keepers of all the wisdom. And then sometime around 1966, we decided that anyone over 40 was an idiot and shouldn't be listened to. And I think that was a mistake. I'm sorry. This is the serious moment where you forget you're wearing lipstick. Oh, I don't forget it. I don't forget it. I don't forget it.

And trust me, I think especially women need to be heard at this moment. And this lipstick is helping me. This is going to undertake. It's going to undercut, like, what if I start really talking about how racism is a problem? I really start talking about very serious stuff or genocide in some foreign country, and the video comes out of me with this makeup on. It looks like you just had a fudge cycle. I got to say, I don't think it's bad.

It's not, it's a subtle color, so I'm not, I think it works for you. Yeah. It's going to smush it around a little. It feels good, too. What are you smushy? Yeah. What's that? Here, here's a Kleenex.

What does that do? I don't know, if you wanted to take it off because you're trying to make a serious. point about aging. But I also think, actually, I think that, oh, I was supposed, oh, no, there's the belly button mark. Sorry. I actually think that older women are particularly discarded, you know? More so than men, yes.

No doubt. Yeah. So, you know, let's change that narrative. How many are you going to do a year? Do you know? How many of these podcasts? Well, I just did 10. Okay.

That's a lot. Yeah. I listened to your one with Jane Fonda, and it looked like you'd put a lot of thought into it and it felt very well constructed, especially the first part. And I thought, huh, that's different than my approach. We go in half-ass and start babbling and maybe some lipstick is exchanged. But yours was, I felt beautifully put together. Thanks. That's really nice for you to say. And yeah, I worked hard on it. Yeah. Yeah. I kind of feel, tell me how you feel about this, but I feel like we're in this nice place. This was something I think about all the time in

show business where there's so many different ways to put yourself out there. And I know that there used to be a time when the goal was get a TV show, get on a TV show, and then get into movies. And I'm thinking especially when you were on Seinfeld, it's probably like, okay, I was on SNL, now I'm on Seinfeld, then I got to get into movies, and then I become a movie star, because that has to be the trajectory. And what we see now, no one cares. No one cares. They just care about good work. I know what you mean about the television to movie thing. And back when I was doing Seinfeld, that's when I had both of my kids, you know?

So the idea, and we were making 22 episodes. Remember those days when it was 22 episodes of season or 24 or whatever? So the idea of going off during the hiatus and making movies was just no bueno for me. I couldn't bear the idea of it. And the irony of all of this is that like in the last year and a half, I've made a ton of movies. Yeah. It's so weird.

And you're in the Marvel universe now. I know. I am. That's nuts. Tell me about that. Because once you're in that club, forget about it. I don't know if that's the case, but I'm really doing this to impress my kids. And I'm not shitting you.

I really am. I mean, they wanted, you know, they both would say, Mom, come on. Why can't you be in whatever the hell it is? And I said, yeah, and so, so, so I met with these guys and I said, you know, I could be, I mean, I could do something, you know, I could punch somebody and, you know, fly around or whatever. Anyway, cut to, cut two. That was all it took. It's all it took. Wait a minute. Why don't, why don't I take? By the way, that was my pitch. That was the actual pitch I made. Okay. Well, guess what? I think I could punch somebody and fly around a little bit. Maybe take a punch. I could be punched. Yes. And people could fly. over me. But I don't see why I can't be part of the... It's DC, but plastic man feels like you.

I mean, I'm very... Get your reps to get a meeting for you with Kevin Feigy and all those people and pitch yourself. Yes, I'm going to. Well, this is my pitch right now. I don't get out a lot, so I'm just going to send them this segment of the podcast. But Kevin Feigey and the Marvel gang, I, come on. You know, I've got a fan base. Why are you making noises? I don't know. I think maybe you'd be like an extra. Is that mean to say?

Come on, but I think. It's not nice to say. I'm sorry, but I think that. A distracting extra. Yeah, but like, hey, who's that handsome? He could be a, tall drink of water in the background. He could be like a snarky. What?

Yeah, what? Yes. Yeah. Oh, that's my power is snark? No, first of all, you're not going to have a superpower. Yes. Thank you. Thank you.

That's what I was trying to say. You're not going to be one of the hero. Okay. So I'll be the, I'll be a guy who is, I'm working. I'm cooking the books in the background. Yeah, you might be like a corporate snarky guy. That I could see. That's true.

This is fantastic. Maybe I'm not sending this to Marvel. It's too late. You're cast. But I mean, so your kids now... My kids. My kids, my grown men, children. Right.

You're 45-year-old children. Yeah, seriously. No, they... But now they must want to come to the set because they want to see, Like, oh, you know, you're shooting Falcon and the Winter Soldier, I want to be there. I want to, I want to meet Falcon. I want to see all this cool stuff.

They haven't asked me to come to the set. Maybe they'll come. I'm going down. I'm going to be shooting starting in June for many months. So I suspect that they may want to come then. And there's going to be lots of fancy people in it. And so they'll get to meet. If they come, they would get to meet.

I don't know. We'll see. Maybe they'll come. I have to say my kids never asked to meet people. They're very polite. They've never bothered to meet anyone. And then every now and then, when they do really want to meet someone, I don't have the clout to make it happen. Right.

So, like, you know, yeah, my daughter would flip if I could say, hey, you know, Taylor Swift, do you want to meet her? And that's not happening. Taylor Swift's team has told me. No, I haven't even approached, but she's just. But you're pretty sure you're going to get a pass? I'm pretty sure that I'm not even going to try. So I'm not going to try. Okay.

Well, fine. I can't help you. I think you could No, I can't Yes, you could You have more clout than I have You could call Taylor Swift's people And say, look

Conan's kids want to meet her Well, Conan wants to meet her With one of his kids Oh, that's what this is Yeah, but I want to go in first Yeah, your daughter And have like a lunch And then my daughter

Can come in at the end Yeah Why don't you fabricate a pitch I mean, you've got this company now So why don't you come up With a story idea or something You were pitching her That's it

That's how you're going to do it That's how I do it Yeah. And you say you need to pitch to her just like over lunch and then you have your kids come by. Right. Okay. We figured it out. This is perfect. Now we got to figure out the pitch. You play Flailer Snitch. That's your Marvel name. Yeah, exactly. I don't have a good pitch for her. Hey, Prime members. Did you know you can listen to Wiser Than Me ad free on Amazon music? Download the Amazon Music app today to start listening ad-free.

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No. What are you talking about? First of all, I don't know what you're talking about. Why would I've met everybody? I mean, honestly, I don't, I'm kind of private. And I don't go out there and try to meet everybody. That's not your, the word on the street, yeah, is that you're desperately trying to meet everyone. That's what it says in my notes.

Desperate to be met, it says. Wants to be seen. I think you're reading your own bio. Oh, shit. This is Conan. Fuck. I'm sorry. Where's yours?

Here it is. I was going to just ask you, what was it like growing up with freckles? I was going to compliment you on you're such a great comedian in every way, but I think one of the hardest things to do is physical comedy. When did you figure out, oh, I can do physical comedy and I can do it very well? Was that something you figure out when you're a kid? I don't.

There wasn't a moment. I just think I'm, you know, just trying to get the laugh. And so if a physical movement can... Is called for. It's called for I'm all in. I always think these things reveal themselves when you're third grade, fourth grade is when I think people start around then

is when people start to figure out if they're funny or not. Well, to that, there was a play I was in in fourth grade called Serendipity. And I was the queen. And I was a queen character. And at some point in the play, somebody was supposed to say something

to me and it was going to make me faint. And I did it and I got a huge laugh, but I didn't mean it to get a laugh. Right, right. And I don't even think it was a particularly funny scene. It wasn't meant to be funny. It was just the queen fainted. Right. But I got the laugh and I was very pleased. You got that dopamine hit. I got that hit. And then you're thinking, how do I get more of this? More of this. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Now, it was your family funny? Yeah. In a, yes. I mean, not like, it wasn't like. It wasn't like. like crack a joke, every second kind of a thing. But, yeah, there was a sort of a black humor that was in place that was very, what shall we say, life-saving.

That it is, yeah. I mean, it can be. I can. Is your family funny? Yeah, they're very funny. But it also, it's this theory I have that comedy is this way to address things that are not supposed to be spoken about. Yes. So if there's any tension in the family because we're rigidly Catholic or we are, there's

certain areas that are not to be spoken of, that you get around that by being funny. And that's a way to sort of talk about things, but not really mean it. Are you a practicing Catholic now? Well, that's a very personal question. Yeah, but I'm curious. Well, then you have a right to know. I would say I'm in the, I think it's in my bum. I would say somewhat lapsed.

Let's put it that way. Did you raise your children in a religious way? Well, this is going to upset people, but no. Mom, dad. They're not listening. Oh, thanks. Not because they're too old, because they just isn't really,

they don't like my stuff. I would say we raise them to be highly ethical and moral, but start quizzing them on details from the New Testament. and they will not do well. How about you? The same. For real. I mean, I wasn't raised Catholic.

I was raised nothing. It'd be funny if you were raised nothing and then raised your kids very rigidly Catholic. That would be funny. No one ever does that. No one ever says, you know what? Yeah, exactly. You can't get the toothpaste into the tube. No.

Right. That never happens. Right. There was a period of time that my mother took us to the Unitarian Church. but then the minister, I think he killed himself. Oh. Yeah, I'm sorry. No.

No, it's okay. But he did. And so didn't feel like the right fit anymore. Yeah, if the guy who's leading you on your spiritual journey takes himself out of the picture. Yeah. I mean, yeah, that's not good. God love him. But anyway, so, yeah, so I did not have.

But my husband's was raised big time Episcopal and his dad was a minister. So he grew up in the church. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Actually, in Santa Barbara, by the way. That church on Santa, or it's actually on Eucalyptus Lane. Yeah, they have beautiful churches up there. There are these Spanish-style churches?

Well, this one's Craftsman. It's called All Saints by the Sea. Craftsman's Church. Gourley, you'd go in even if you didn't want to worship. I'm ready to convert. Yeah. No, it's a beautiful church. Yeah, it's nuts.

That's the problem is, like, church gets a lot of the best architecture, and it just doesn't seem fair, you know? Yeah, it does, right? Yeah. There are churches where it's known that celebrities go there. There was a church in Santa Monica where I think Arnold Schwarzenegger used to go. And people who went to the church used to say he'd like, when he marched down the aisle for communion, like practically with a cigar in his mouth. You go to that Catholic church at like 7th Street?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a pretty church too. I've gone in there to look at the church. I like to go to churches if a celebrity is going to be there. And then I try and get him, then I try and get him for the podcast. Like they're in line for communion And I'm like Stay

Arnold Arnold What is it I'm about to take communion That's like all the guests lately It's so religious Every guest that came in Had ashes on Ash Wednesday

They're all hyper Catholic Mark Wahlberg is back for the ninth time in a row Clark Grammar There wasn't You weren't raised in a strong religion. That would be very different. I can't imagine that.

No, I was not. I was definitely not. I was, my dad's side of the family, his father was Jewish. And with the last name of Louis Dreyfus, people assumed I was Jewish. But so I sort of, I am very proud of that heritage, but I wasn't raised Jewish either. So you're a mix. There was a blend. Yeah, totally.

Okay. I'm so in favor of the blend. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I've talked about this, but I am a pure, pure dose of Irish Catholic, and there's nothing else in there. And I think that's where it leads to madness. And I'm very much envy my wife, who's a blend of like some Welsh and some Scottish and some English and some Irish. And she's much more intelligent and much saner than I am. And I think that's a better way to go. And I'm happy that my kids are a blend. Yeah, that's good. And plus, you didn't, I mean, they're kind, and they're sort of nothing, too, right? I wouldn't say they're nothing. I think they're nothing. And my kids are nothing, too. I'm going to have to pull my kids aside and say, you're nothing. You know that woman you adore? Because I've told you this before, but we talked about this last time, but my wife, it was a, it was a tough call, but my wife made the decision our kids are watching Veep and at a fairly young age. And she would make a motion to like cover.

their ears, but not really. And anyway, the point being that... And they were really young because... They were young, yeah. And I would be... I mean, I don't need to tell you, but some of the writing on that show, not some of the writing, a lot of the writing.

I think brilliant writing. Such great comedy, such great performances. One of the great shows, downright filthy and very descriptive, when people are going after each other, very descriptive. Yeah. And the male anatomy comes up a lot.

My wife just made the call, like, this is really funny, and I think our kids should see it. And they started watching it. So now I'm going to go home and tell them, you know, that woman that you love? She just described you as nothing. Nothing. Were they too young to get it? Did they like it? I think funny is funny.

I really do. I think they got a lot of it. And they really loved it. I was curious about something, because we're on the subject of Veep. You got to talk to Kamala Harris about Veep. Yeah. And what's her perspective on the show? She loves the show.

She said, I saw her actually recently. Believe her or not, I'd never met her until like two months ago. And she said, I love, she said to me, I love the show. It's incredible. And it's really like, it's like real life. And I said, I know it is. I said, you want me to get you out of here? But she had a sense of humor.

It would be great if just then someone had come in to tell her something and she had been as filthy as you are. Why don't you take your dick and shove it up your own? You know, like, what happened? Right, exactly. Oh, my God, it really is. That's incredible. Yeah, I think probably not quite as sweary, but, yeah, they're just people trying to get the job done, you know. I hear what you're saying.

Yeah. I hear what you're saying. Yeah. Now, she would be, well, she can't be on the podcast because you have to talk to older women. Yes. That's right. What happens if you really admire a woman and you think she's done an amazing work, but you don't want to call her older?

Can you have her on the podcast? What do you mean? Can you age her? No. What if you had the chance to have Taylor Swift on? Oh, God. You're not going to get to her, man. You've got to let it go.

I'm going to let it go. If I do get her, I'll let you know and you can help me talk. You're not going to let me know. No, I'm not. I'm just curious if what are you learning then so far in the podcast that's what is informing you? Because you're talking to these amazing women. What are they, are they teaching you stuff that's inspiring you? You know, Jane Fonda particularly, she talks about the different acts of life, the first, the second, and the third act.

She's in her own mind, she's sort of broken down the aging process into three acts. And so now she's in her third act. And she's done what she's done what she calls a life review and in which she really went back over her life and tried to understand where it is she has been. Right. Which is an interesting thing to consider personally, you know. So I'm in my third act, right?

And so I'm starting to think about, wow, It was mind-expanding to me, talking to her and so many other people, Ruth Reischel, for example, the former editor of Gourmet Magazine and the New York Times Food Critic. And she also, she's like 75, I think, and she was talking about how important it is to keep doing things that frighten you, which is an interesting thing to consider. and basic things like really honestly staying physically fit. She didn't say this. This is very much Jane and also Isabel Iende. Staying physically fit and healthy is hugely meaningful as you get older. I mean, it's so obvious.

But then when you really start to consider it, I think to a certain extent you don't think about getting, I mean, you do think about getting older. But it creeps up on you. I mean, how old are you? Do you mind my asking? Not at all. And this is a frequent topic of discussion, much of the delight of my compatriots here. Yes.

I don't know exactly when this drops. Okay, this drops on April 17th. On April 18th, I turned 60. And so everything you're talking about is stuff I've been thinking about because there was so much in my career where I was the youngest guy in the room. Tell me about it.

And people would say, you know, I was in college, like the young guy that ran the magazine, the comedy magazine, then, you know, when I got a late night show, I was, I had just turned 30. So you're this young whippersnapper. Like way too young. You know, people were like, what's, no? And green. And then there was just years and years and years where, well, there's the host at 1130. And then there's the, that kooky rooster guy over there in late night. And then what happens is suddenly, it felt to me like it

suddenly flipped to, give us your wisdom, old man. I'm like, what are you talking about? But it happens, it does happen. And now I interview a lot of younger people in comedy and they're like, well, I grew up watching you. I was in diapers as you were hitting 50. And I'm like, Jesus Christ, what happened? But I keep coming back to the same general feeling of gratitude and just happy to be here. But I will tell you, I've been doing a lot of inventorying.

I've been thinking of it in 20-year cycles, like, okay. age one to 20, you know, age 1 to 20 got me to this point in my life. Yeah. Age 20 to 40 got me to this other part and then 40 to 60 got me here. And so that's how I'm coming to thinking about it. It's got me keeping score, adding it up and for the most part feeling content about. Which is fantastic because, I mean, what else is the point? Are you pivoting in any way?

Like as you move into this next sort of, what do you want to call it, your next 20-year section? I call it my dotage. Into your doadage. No, but for real, like, are you making adjustments? Are you thinking about it like that in any way? Yeah, no, to be, I mean, there's all these jokes that come to mind that I think, no, just. Yeah, just tell. Just tell.

But first, the jokes. Yeah, yeah, I'm getting a lot of work done, sheen. Yeah, I'm getting an eye job, sheen. No, the reality of it is I love, I mean, we started talking about this. And we address it already, but how this technology has changed. There's a way now that I can be practice my craft, whatever you want to call it, without being high flutin, try and get my personality across, which is in essence all I've been trying to do since I was a kid.

And then when I got into broadcasting, it's just trying to do that on a bigger scale. But this podcast has been a real revelation to me that I can, you know, you came on the late night show. several times, and we had some really great moments. You did some great stuff. One of my favorites is when Tina Faye came on. Oh, that was fun. And it was really fun.

That was a fun bit. We had worked out a whole bit where you were on my show and you wanted to steal Tina's Emmy, and you knew Tina was upstairs at Saturday Night Live in the building. That's right. And I enjoined you to come with me and we were going to go steal it. We ran up a stairwell. We went up a stairwell. It was so much fun.

That bit came out. well yes and we did it live we did it live stole her emmy came back down and then there's a great moment where we continue we go on with things and then she shows up in the doorway yeah and so i guess the the the point i was making is there are things that you could do comedy bits and we could have a short conversation and i i loved that i'm not i adored that and i'm glad that i got to do it but now the fact that there's a way that i can talk to you in this way, in this manner. In a more sort of genuine.

Yeah, genuine. And it feels different to me. And to me, the whole key is just keep trying new things. Right. And that's the thing. Keep trying new things. Don't just keep as much as there are people that would say, oh, my God, I just wish Seinfeld had kept going. No, Seinfeld needed to stop, you know.

Right. And then you needed to do sitcoms and then you needed to do single camera. and then you need it to, you know, you're just like you need to do movie work and then you have to do, you have to keep trying things that you are, uh, that they're challenged by. Challenge by and they're not in your muscle memory. So to me, that's the thing is I just want to keep putting myself out there in different ways and, and then be honest about it. If something doesn't work, it didn't work. Yeah. Well, I mean, something will eventually not work. But that's okay. Well, not for me. I'm just, uh, no, no, everything you do is perfect. well that that's the subtext of the whole interview yes yes pardon me yes of course i'm stating the obvious but um never a stumble the Conan o'brien story but i think but that is actually

never a stumble that's my that's my bio title that i'm going with never a stumble the colonel o'brien story but yeah i think that trying new things keeping it uh sort of fresh that way is is i think in well first of all it's a great way to live life and also a I think it's a great way to have longevity, I think. I also think one of the things is I like a lot is that I work with some people that are older than me, but in this business, I'm constantly meeting young talent and an intern can walk in here with a point of view that will inform me. Just keep your mouth shut, which I have a trouble with it. I was about to say, I don't think you're taking your own advice.

Well, I can hear them as I'm talking. As I'm speaking, I can hear. No. No. No. Wrong about everything. But these guys are going through big birthdays as well. And I don't know if you're doing the same thing. Are you taking, you're going to hit 50?

I very much have tried to take a new look at physicality and be healthier too. So I feel like I just have a very new daughter. And I feel like I've got to be fit. I've got to be around. I want to be around. I want to feel good. Yeah. And Sona had twins.

Yeah. twin boy a year and a half ago thank you yeah yeah and I turned 40 in October wow and it's funny you bring up learning things from older people because my grandma was such a big figure in my life and she was just always happy just being around the people that she loved and I feel like I've taken that from her and so turning 40 wasn't like it wasn't it didn't weigh on me too much because I just you know I try to just take the joy just like she did and everything. Yeah.

There's also the perspective about I went home recently to Brookline Mass and I was up visiting my parents and I went up and I was sitting in my dad's study and he's sitting at his desk. My dad's 94 and we were chatting and I said, dad, my 60th birthday is coming up and he looked at me and he was like, you're a kid. And I thought, oh, he's right. By comparison, yeah. You know, I'm around so many young people who probably look at me and, and, you know, And I think you're 94.

Well, no, it is funny. Okay, I'll reveal something. I know that you are a Mark Twain recipient, Mark Twain Award recipient. Yes. Yes. And deservedly so. And recently, I've been asked to help present, you know, whatever it's called when you show up for your, when you speak on behalf of someone who's getting a Mark Twain prize. So I did it for Lauren Michaels and did it for Will Farrow. And then this year, Adam Sandler, you know, asked me to come and speak on his behalf.

And I did. And I had a really good time. And then briefly, there was like a big text exchange that everybody was on. All these people that presented and are friends with Adam who were very famous or on this huge text chain. And I'm on it too. And everyone's talking about what a great time they had. And things are going back and forth. And then someone mentioned someone who was really old.

And I think it was Adam said, yeah. I mean, he's older than Conan. And I thought, oh, shit, I think all of these guys are younger than me because they were all a little behind me at SNL. And so I got on the chain and I said, wait a minute, is the new definition of old in comedy older than Conan? Is that like, no, no, it was, no, it was, it was, it was funny. It is funny. I think the age gap that you're talking about makes more, it, it hits more when you're younger. When David Spade, when David Spade, when David Spade.

is asking can he help you to the toilet you know you have a problem that's just a fetish of his take his help take his help david i did notice he's always asking everyone if he can take them to the toilet yeah when i was doing veep i had the same experience when i realized oh jesus christ i'm the oldest one here right and um i had not been the oldest one i'd also i'd been the young because when i was hired on s andl i was 20 fucking one i mean i was young just watch the language. I'm sorry. I am so sorry. Let's learn from our elders here. You don't hear that kind of language from a Jane Fonda. Oh, yes, you do. Oh, yes, you do. You know what I loved. I got to talk to Jane Fonda and of course I was just blown away and when the interview was over, we got a picture

and I don't know if you remember this, but we're getting a picture with her and I'm being so deferential And also in this era where you just want to be very hyper, respectful of women's boundaries. Like, I'm always making sure that, like, my hand is maybe sometimes not even, and so my hand was like not even touching her, you know, I was behind, I was, had my arm around her. Is that what you're about to say? Was not even touching her breast. Both feet were on both breasts because I think the feet don't count. Yeah, I can dislocate my, my legs from my pelvis.

So both legs were like slim jims up in the air. No! What I mean is that I kind of had my arm behind her, but I was being, I was like, it's Jane Fonda. Yes, of course. And she, it was so great. She went, oh, come on. And she took my hand and she placed it on, like,

I guess where an appendix scar would be and held it down. And you ought to know now. Yeah. And she placed my hand there. And what I loved about it was, I just was like, God damn, she's sexy. And it's all, it's, I mean, first, she looks amazing. She looks amazing. But it's also not about that.

It is, it is about her attitude. And I was just so enthralled with her. Her age, like 85, just disappeared. No, she is like an etch a sketch. Like if you shake it, it just went away. And I thought, and I think whatever she's doing, And there's so many, you know, there are other people like this. Whatever they're doing, I want to be playing that game.

Totally. I want to be making people touch my lower abdomen against their will. Is that what I did I take the wrong thing away from this? My guess would be, yeah. Yeah, okay. All right. Well, that was. the novelist, extraordinary writer,

Pulitzer Prize winning writer, and she is 80, 82. I am telling you, the way she was talking about being in her 80s, it made me want to be 80. For real. Like what?

Well, because she's let go of so much. She's relaxed. And her priorities have gotten, shall we say, hyper-focused. That's nice. Yeah, it's really nice. It's funny you say that because I was driving with my dad a couple of years, a couple of years ago,

not that long ago, but like five years ago, I'm driving my dad, and he's a very smart guy and scientist and a doctor, and I'm driving, and he's sitting next to me. And I just said, you know, it's a truism that older people tend to drive slower. And I said, now, is that because of, you know, changes in the synapses? where you process information a little more slowly, so you go more slowly. And my father said, partially that. And partially, when you get older,

you realize there's no hurry. And I thought, shit, that's very profound. You have to. Yes. There are things you understand as you start to understand. I mean, I'm just starting to understand them now. But, I mean, having kids really helps. But that was a huge moment for me of,

it's really not about me. this is what life is about yeah and um yeah but then that went away and the career came back into folks sure um i called my son career for a couple of years jesus i did i he has a name i still haven't remembered it but people would say your career is flourishing and i said i love him too um career get over here oh god um career you've got to flush the toilet career but no i i i uh but i do think there's stuff that you pick up that has to, it just has to drip into you slowly over time, but you start to understand. Yeah.

Now, again, there's a lot of older people out there that don't. I've known some very neurotic, impatient, worried older people. So it's not like all people do it, but if you can figure it out, you do let go of a lot of things that drive you crazy when you're in your teens and 20s and 30s. Right. if you're lucky, there's more of a, you know, I know this word is used a lot, but a more mindful approach to living life that you can adopt that can be hugely meaningful, I think. I think you started to cry, or else some water went down the wrong way.

I'm very choked up by what I'm talking about. Let's get your lipstick back on. Yeah, exactly. I know you're a very busy person and you've been very generous with your time. I really have been And I Your people made it very clear to me That this was not high on your list of things to do

And the rate you charged, my God Thanks for coming up to the number 150,000 for a 45 minute chat That's incredible That's at a discount by the way And a private jet And you drove here You just charged us the amount of a private jet

But I'm, I'm, I don't, time with you is time very well spent. I adore you and. Back at you. Well, back at you doesn't really count as a compliment. Oh, God. Then I'm taking it back completely. Smart. Keep making the podcast because I really like it.

Thank you. And it is, I, you've done all 10 for this season. Yes, I've done all 10. Okay. Wiser than me, these are really great conversations. and I love that you're out there having those conversations. I think it's a very cool project. Yeah, fun, thank you.

Keep going, and I will one day put on a wig and some lipstick, and I will come in, and you will interview me as an older woman. Julia Louis Dreyfus, I love you. Thank you for being here. I really do. Back. No, don't say back at you. Back to the future.

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I think we have something we need to address. As of when this episode comes out, tomorrow, big boy, it's your 60th birthday. You are obsessed with talking about my age. What do you mean? He is obsessed with talking about. It's a milestone birthday. You bring it up. What's this got to do with me?

Because you have brought it up on the podcast easily seven times. Easily seven times who said, well, I'm going to be turning 50, but that means Conan's turning 60. I want to keep this on the down low. Comedy's all about being young. And I'm putting it out there that I'm in my late 40s. And you, every single time we get on mic, are like, well, in three more months, someone's going to be 60. And then it's just a hop, skipping a jump to 70. How are you, big boy?

Wow. This is you left right and center lately, baby. What is happening? You seem very, you seem upset about it. I don't want to die. Touchy. Why? It's the grave.

The grave beckons. But it's just a number, man. Oh, yeah, it's a number that you keep bringing up again and again and again. Six-zero. Yeah, six-zero. Yeah, I'll be 60 by the time this thing drops. Tomorrow. Oh, right.

You're turning 50 in May. That's right. Oh, okay. Yeah. And you just turned 40. And then Adams also turned 40 recently. We work in decades here. Yeah.

It's crazy. Eduardo, Holyo. 35. Yeah. Okay. Well, you're going to need to age five. Get on sync with us. Get on sync.

Yeah, get in phase. So like women that are all on the same menstrual cycle, we need to sync up. So you are now almost to turn 40. You're almost turning 40. Can I go backwards? No. Okay, fine. You can only go forward.

You compared it to women being on their same menstrual cycle? Like, how do you even know what that is? I read about it once in glamour magazine. Okay. I was reading an article called Seven Ways to Keep Your Man Happy. And that was to menstruate with other women? Yeah. Men love it.

Men love it when women sink up. Yeah, men love it. That was number six on the seven ways to keep your man happy. Actually, are you sure you're not 70? I'm 80. Yes, let's address it. I realize I came down on you a little hard, but I will be honest. You've seemed a little obsessed with my birthday.

I just want to wish you happy birthday. I think it's a milestone birthday. Here's the thing, two things you're saying. You're saying it's just a number and it's a milestone. But that's a good thing. Take aside, dude. What? That's a good thing.

This one's exciting. It's a big one. You just want to see me in my grave. Oh, well, that's true. And I want to put you there. Well, you're doing it. Hey, buddy, big one coming. Big Six-O, buddy.

You started like a year ago. A year from now. The big six-o, buddy boy. I mean, it's just interesting that we all turn our decades. It's so interesting that a guy like you would get so old. Oh, God, this guy. oh this guy over here this pistol uh yes i i'm fine with it as you can tell yeah but i do it's something i think about sometimes which is uh you know i'm a i've

been such a foolish physical comic in in my life and then i think um i just want someone to tap me on the shoulder when they say it's it's looking sad now you know well now you can do prep falls but they'll be real well yeah but but i won't get up after afterwards just you'll hear a shattering sound and a hip will go rolling into the gutter be honest no if we had said nothing and just let your birthday go by you wouldn't have liked that right I would have had something to be bitter about oh which as sona will tell you is the greatest gift the greatest gift you can give me is something a little a little hatred a little you know what the best is if he gives you a gift and you never acknowledge it never say thank you or you or you get a

gift and you're just kind of like, I have this already. And then you just kind of set it aside. Yeah, a good gift would have been to forget my birthday. And then I could have hated you for it. But I also get to hate you for bringing it up. That you're 60? Yeah. Okay. There you go. One more time. 60. Exactly. Can I say something though? You take good care of yourself. I do. You are exactly the same, at least to me, in terms of your physicality and the things that you do from when I first started working for you. That's why I don't think you'd be upset because you look good. You sound good. I've, listen, I'm thinking of having a lot of work done. Oh.

And I know that that's not necessary for a podcast. What are you going to get done? Oh. Your boobs. I want big boobs. I want huge boobs. And I also want those butt implants. What I would get done is butt implants because I have no ass.

You know that son of. You're going to go for like a Kardashian body. I would like, what do they do? How does a butt implant work? What's in there? What do they put in there? I thought they put fat. from other parts of your body

I'm looking around It's not in that magazine you read Yeah Seven Ways to keep your man happy No They had very I think it was written by a maniac Because it said like

Sink up your menstrual cycle With other women Yeah I think Kardashians are so rich They just get like But transplant Someone else's butt Is given to them

For Bitcoin They get a Bitcoin put in there You could donate Your butt for his birthday I need all the butt I can get too Yeah this guy isn't You know

Okay So it says for a BBL, which I think is what you're talking about. Brazilian butt lift. Correct. It's as fat is removed from the hips, lower back, thighs, abdomen, and or other areas with liposuction. You don't have.

I don't have, I don't have, but I don't think I have a lot of fat in other areas of my body. I think if I do, it's in my head. Yeah. It'd be really funny if I suddenly had a really skinny head. Oh. Like a really, really skinny head and then a giant ass. And I literally had fat from my cheeks.

put into my bottom, you know, and my big fat Irish paper mache head suddenly became really skinny. Okay. But I had this fat ass I was carting around. Your hair is the same size. Yes, the hair is still a big puff pastry. Okay. They don't put silicone in the boobs? No, it just says they inject the fat into specific points in the buttocks.

How does it not fall, like, sag down, like saddlebags? Sounds like a remote for Conan. No. I'm going to get it done. And I will say I do a lot of sort of mental gymnastics in my head. So turning 60, I start to do the math in my head of, well, wait a minute, when was my dad 60? And he's 94 now and still doing well. Yeah.

But you do the math in your head and go, wait a minute, that wasn't that long ago. It doesn't feel that long ago that he was my age. But he seemed older, right? Yeah. And then you start to realize that you start to hear things like people. that you thought when you were a kid were really old when they played that character in a movie were your age and you think oh my god really have you done that seven because brando played the godfather at 47 yes and that was but he was playing someone who was older yeah but still well also in like

40 i think norm from cheers was 40 i think cliff was 40 i think Homer Simpson is supposed to be around 40 I mean, I think they make it like you've given up. Like at that age, it's sort of like, oh, right, well, I'm just going to be like a big fatso and just sit at the bar. Not that, I, no, I don't want to say that about Norman Cliff. You know what I mean? Like they made the characters seem older back then. Right, yeah, right.

You're going to probably live a long time. That's a terrible thing to say. Oh, I'm sure you're going to be played. I'm sure you'll survive at least the day. That I'll take. Okay. Well, thank you. You know, I'm sorry I jumped down your throat, Gorley.

That's all right. Just try to wish a guy a happy birthday. Which birthday is it? One, two, three, four, five, six decades of human life on this planet. Adam, am you right? He brings it up a lot. I actually think you're both right. I think it is a milestone.

And so it is like something to acknowledge. It's a big birthday. Sure. But you're right that he's brought it up so many times. But I also think that you are, I think that you are. Sensitive about it, though. You are sensitive. I shouldn't be.

I shouldn't be. Can we talk about my original ideas? I wanted to get him a gift and just make this about giving you a gift. And it was that cardboard aircraft carrier you always talk about that you had as a kid. Whoever's responsible for that just didn't do it. Didn't we look for it and we couldn't find it? Yeah, something like that. Anyway, happy birthday.

You really tried hard. So your choices were get Conan a joyous gift from his youth. Basically give Charles Foster Kane his rosebud sled. or just grind it into his ear that he's getting old. Which one should we do? Also, tell him you were going to get it and then not actually... And then not get it. Happy birthday.

Couldn't be bothered. Someone dropped the ball. Well, I still got it. I'm a podcast now, see? That's the real gift. Yeah. The real gift is that people listening think I'm a real hipster. A real cool cat.

Anyway, well, thank you. you, and I am sincerely, if I can be sincere for one second, just great, seriously, just grateful that to be around. So, that's nice. I really am. Okay. No, literally I am. I'm like... You've done a lot. You shouldn't be so hard on yourself.

I'm not. I think, I mean... No, but I am grateful to I'm grateful to have this birthday. Yeah. Here's to another 60 more. Oh my God. Oh, my God. It's so painful. Too old. All right, well, thank you. Thank you very much. And, uh...

Happy birthday. And I'm sure the gifts are, huh, I don't see anything. We googled it. We can find show notes. You could have got me something else. We had such a good idea for a gift for you. Watchers are nice. Oh my God.

You would have just loved it. You would have loved it. All right. Thank you. Happy birthday to me. Conan O'Brien needs a friend with Conan O'Brien, Sonam of Sessian, and Matt Gourley. Produced by me, Matt Gourley. Executive produced by Adam Sacks, Nick Clow,

and Jeff Ross at Team Coco, and Colin Anderson and Cody Fisher at Earwolf. Theme song by The White Stripes. Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Take it away, Jimmy. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair, and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples. Engineering by Eduardo Perez. Additional production support by Mars Melnick.

Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Britt Kahn. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts, and you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Conan? Call the Team Coco hotline at 323-451-2821 and leave a message. It too could be featured on a future episode. And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O'Brien needs a friend on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.

This has been a Team Coco production in association with Earwolf. Thank you.