With The Perrys - Best of WTP – Prayer: The Discipline We All Suck At

Episode Date: July 8, 2024

Because of the podcast tour, there will be a short break in recording new content, so let’s revisit some of the Perrys’ most popular episodes.Prayer will always be a struggle because it concerns our dependence. “Do I trust myself today, or do I trust God to meet my needs?” The Perrys still feel this, that prayer might be something we always suck at. Oh, and this episode has a very important debate about washcloth usage in the shower. Enjoy! Subscribe to the Perrys' newsletter: https://withtheperrys.myflodesk.com/zhfus4jx1s Join Preston's discipleship community for men: https://www.patreon.com/PrestonPerry/membership To support the work of the Perrys, donate via PayPal: https://paypal.me/withtheperrys Shop BOLD Apparel: boldapparel.shop Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

So we once had a conversation titled Prayer, the discipline we all suck at. I remember. Do you still suck at it? I think, you know, since then, I think I've gotten better at prayer. I think, you know, the Lord has allowed some things to happen in my life that, you know, has made me trust and made me run to him more, which is always a good thing. Yeah, I think for me, prayer is still a struggle. I think it's always going to be a struggle because it's a struggle of dependence.

Yeah, it is. It's a struggle of do I trust myself today and the resources I have or do I trust God to be bread, to be water? And so if anything, I have a deeper respect of and perspective on prayer than I did then. That still like pushes against my own like self-reliant temperament. And also too, it's just the busyness of life. I mean, when you wake up, it's so tempting to not think about all the things that you have to do today. But at first, go to the Lord and cash a cares on him and to talk with him and to commune with him. I think that's always the wrestle.

You know, in this episode, we also talked about using a washcloth. Yes. Or using your fingertips. Some people use their hands, and I never understood that. I mean, hey, is it, is it, is it? Is it like a first order issue or a sec? I think it's a tertiary issue. Yeah, it got to be tertiary.

I don't think it's a kingdom of God's self-dific issue. It's not. So it's no condemnation. But the butt. You have to watch the hidden parts. And I don't know what you're doing with your thumbs and your index finger. But.

Y'all check out this episode. Hey, St. Names. How are you? What'd it do? Hope you're well. Hope you good. Swell.

Swell. You know, last season, we opened up talking about watchcloths, and that kind of started a little thing. Yes, people start DMing us. How many washcloths do we use per week? No. Do we use washcloths for our feet? I got a number of DMs asking for washcloth advice, or people lamenting over, stand over somebody's house who didn't have no washcloths. Or I had this one young lady who was like, yeah, but you don't use washcloths to wash your hands.

Listen. What? Listen. Do not take offense to me advocating for friction. All right. Like if you don't want to use a washcloth, that is all right. Like you can still make it into glory. That's not a moral indictment on you unless you're musty.

But if you're not, then just do whatever works. No, I think that most, I think one of the funniest stories. I know funny is in a word, but I want to say it. funniest is. It's the funniest the word? The funniest story. if it's past tense. Oh, the funniest story was when someone DMed us, it was like, yeah, I got out the shower.

No, I got in the shower. And when I got in the shower, I realized that my husband used a washcloth. And when he used the washcloth, I said, you listen to the podcast with the Perrys. No, they told me that. That they just, we've been reuniting people with washcloths. And they just had like a little chuckle together in the bathroom. Like, yeah, like, we both use washcloths. And somebody asked me, they were like, so can we use Lufus?

You can use whatever. my thing is the hand is not sufficient enough to get off summer dirt. That's all I'm saying. And all I'm saying is the hand is just too smooth. Don't neglect the butt. Don't neglect it. Wash it. Set it up.

It's getting neglected. Because if you just with your hand in there. All buds matter. Well, it's a thing that we're talking about prayer. Talking about prayer. Talking about talking to God. And our father who are in heaven Oh man

Hollow be his name That kingdom come That will be done on earth As it is in heaven Give us this day Our daily bread And something about Forgive our debtors

That sin against us So what are we talking about today? Prayer, just said after the Lord's prayer Why are you talking about? Oh man, let's get past this Okay You like prayer I do

Why? Oh man. I love prayer because it really does put me at peace and ease when I have, after I have talked to the Lord about, about my fears, about my worries, about my plans. And, you know, sometimes I get busy and I don't, you know, pray as much as I should. And I don't feel right. And so I thank God for that. but prayer is always been good for me.

I realize that I'm not as anxious. I'm not as burdensome after I, you know, after I prayed. And so what about you? I have learned and I'm continually learning to enjoy it more. Yeah. Surprisingly, I think what kind of changed the way I felt about prayer is the more I learned about God and the safer he became, the more I wanted to pray, if that makes sense.

So, like, when I first became a believer, prayer was kind of, you know, it's something you're supposed to do. You're supposed to seek God and pray and all the things. But it had so many, so many, like, goals attached to it that were, like, worldly. And so, you know, you pray to only get something from God. or, you know, I was in like a super charismatic church, and I love, I'm still halfway charismatic. So this isn't shade, but it is to say that we pray to be powerful all the time. You know what I'm saying?

Like, you got to seek God. You got to consecrate yourself and you got to fast. And it was only so you could have some kind of like spiritual stature. It wasn't to just simply meet and be with God. And then I went to a super legalistic church where it was, if I don't pray and talk to God, then he's mad at me and he's angry. And so I think as I've been able to kind of like knock off and wipe off all of those extra things and it just actually became about a conversation with being the Lord, it's just becoming easier and more, I guess, enjoyable experience. Yeah, because I remember one time I came to you when my spiritual life was kind of lacking.

And the Lord. We were married? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, this was a couple years ago. Probably not a year. Yeah, a couple years ago. I don't know if you remember when I came to you and I was.

I was kind of broken, little tearyotic, and I was saying how I feel like the Lord was telling me that he missed me, you know, that like he missed me in such an intimate and close way. And I remember feeling like, like, this, this conviction, but also this comfort that God just wanted to talk to me. And it wasn't about anything that I wanted from him or necessarily, not anything he wanted from us, Because I think a lot of time, you know, us praying and us trying to spend time with the Lord is trying to seek, oh, God, God, what do you have for me to do? And it's like, no, a lot of times God just wants you to talk to them as a son or a daughter. And so I think for me, you know, prayer is comforting in that way. In the same way, we feel after we spend time with our earthly father, like that comfort, that closeness. For me, that's what prayer is. It's like, man, like, I want to talk to my father. You know, I don't spend time with him. So let's get into the mechanics.

So you have different people that pray in different ways for different lengths in different places, right? And so a lot of the saints I grew up with, they had a prayer closet. And they would enter it at like 5 a.m. in the morning. Get it out. I did. And I should have prayed about it. And when I tried to chase after that, I thought I was a spiritual failure. because it's like I got to have a prayer clause I got to be like Priscilla Shire in the movie

and get all these posted notes on the wall and you know pray without ceasing and it's just like no I want to go to sleep it's 5 a.m. And so I guess for you what have you found that works best with the season that you're in when it comes to praying?

The time, the place, all the things. Man, that's such a good question because when I first gave my life to the Lord I was living with my aunt who was a minister who had no kids and so she took me in she had so much room for me in this big old house that she lived in

because she lived by herself and I remember she was the first Christian that I had close proximity with and so I remember like a couple of months even before I came to Christian waking up every morning

trying to figure out for the life of me while there was all on my head every time I woke up and so I didn't grow up in a Christian home and so I was so confused I'm like why did somebody touch chicken

and touch my head producing oil in my sleep. And one morning she, I hear her, I hear somebody praying over me and I look up and she's anointing my head with oil and it had to be like five, ten in the morning. And as I started to wake up early, I heard her praying every morning, every morning. I love those prayers. Yeah. And so when I became a Christian, I kind of felt like that's what my life had to look like.

and if it didn't look like that I was a failure. But God had to show me, no, like your life has different seasons. And so I think what communicating when somebody looks like is communicating with them the best you can and the most organic way you can in that season. And so I don't think that God is necessarily calling us to be this rigid robot. If I don't pray at 9 o'clock, because if you look at it, that's what, that's how Muslims, you know, praying five times a day facing towards the east. It's this rigid, systematic, almost, not almost, it is work-based, you know, type of relationship

with God. But it's like, no, like God knows that the man that I was when I was single out there evangelizing is not going to be the man that I am with four kids traveling, right? And so what I had to realize is that my prayer time with the Lord has to look like, when it has to, it has to be some sacrifice. I'm not saying that we should not sacrifice waking up when we're tired when we stayed up with a baby the whole night, previous night. But what I am saying is like, man, like as you go, always make an intentional effort to spend time with God, whether that's on a plane. I remember being on plane rides and having my most intimate prayer times on, you know, late night plane rides or, you know, in my hotel when I travel.

like finding that time. Because if you love someone, you will find time. Yeah. You know, and so I think that's what it looks like. Yeah, because it's, it's, I think a common excuse for us not to pray is, is, is, is busyness. But it's not ever busyness. It's, it's idolatry. Yeah.

It's, it's, other things have taken a hold of our affections. A really interesting enemy of prayer, I believe. is that we don't like being bored. And what I mean is, is that we don't know how to sit still and to be still. So even when we pray, our minds are going to all types of things. And they're probably good things. Oh, I need to do this.

I need to do that. Or I wonder what's on this. And if you think about even how we engage with our phones, how we engage with TV, like we don't have to. to sit through a commercial. We don't have to sit through anything. We know how to keep ourselves entertained the entire day. Prayer is one of the only spaces where you are forced to be still. And I think that's what makes it harder for us to sit with God and contemplate a prayer in particular for long periods of times because we are constantly discipling ourselves to be constantly

entertained. Yeah. And productive. Oh, for sure. It's so it's so hard to just, focus. That's so true. That's so true. Yeah. Because like that's so good that you said that because the world around us is making it low-key making our lives more convenient. Well, we don't have to watch commercials. What we don't have to wait for this. Well, we don't have to like even swipe our cars. We just got

a tap. It's true. And so like we don't know how to sit with anything anymore, you know? And so like it feels like it can feel like a waste of time. Yeah. Like why am I? Yeah. Because even if even if even reading the Bible feels more efficient because we're doing something, right? My Bible's open.

Oh, that's a definition. Oh, I've circled this word. I've underlined this. I've learned the thing that I can pass on. Prayer, it feels like sometimes if you don't tap into the mystical, spiritual nature of the fact that you are entering into the Holies of Holies wherever you are to talk to the divine, if that's outside of like your realm of thinking,

then it feels like I'm just talking to myself. It takes a measure of faith to say, I'm actually talking to a being on a throne who can hear me and who will respond accordingly. That's really good. That's hard. Yeah, that's really good. That's really good.

Another thing, too, is I know we talked about anxiety this season, but also like the temptation to work when we were afraid instead of just praying like for me like when I when I'm concerned about you know money or concerned about anything in my life this temptation to like to like do do do instead of just sitting at the feet of God and talking to God and waiting for instruction I don't do that a lot of the times and so God like consistently has to remind me that no I like the answers that you need is at my feet not yet you're doing you know I'm saying and I'm just consistently reminded about Jesus

Jesus, you know, in the Garden of Gatsimony when he kept going to pray in the, in the last hours of him being captured. It's like, no, like even in his most anxious moments when he was asking, you know, God, the father, if, if this may he be his will, like to take this cuff from him, like, he was, he was praying and seeking God. You know what I'm saying? And so, like, I don't know. I just think that, yeah, we just have to consist and remind ourselves that prayer. Prayer is good. I think, like, being productive is good. Like, that's kind of the call as an image bearer to subdue, to cultivate things.

That's a part of what we're called to do, irregardless of sense. Yeah. But I think the temptation to be productive over being prayerful, underneath that is impatience. Yeah. It's, you know, if I am productive first and foremost, I can get things done now. waiting on God, I don't know when he going to do what I'm asking, or if he's going to do what I'm asking. So, asking, so let me do it now. But I felt like in my life, though, there's been times where I've had to discern.

There are moments where, like, even in Exodus, I don't know where it is, but there's this time where something pops off. Moses goes and asks God about it. God is like, why are you talking to me? Move on. Like, go do what you got to do. Where it's like he has the maturity and the wisdom and has walked with God. long enough where he doesn't have to ask God what to do. He knows what to do, so do it. But then there are other times where you do need to ask God what to do and wait on him to give you

the answer. But it's in the waiting that is tough. And so I feel like so much of prayer has to be intertwined with a just actual relationship with God. Because how you pray, when you pray, where you pray, how often you pray, what you pray. All of that is contingent on what you know about God in the scriptures and the history that you have with God in your relationship with You know what I just said like four ideas. No, that was like four ideas, but it's good. It's good that you end up a relationship because I think that what prayer does, it cultivates a deeper relationship. And so when we feel tempted to not go to the Lord the next time, like, basically what I'm trying to say is when we pray, like God has the opportunity to show himself trustworthy.

He has the opportunity to show himself to be God. And so the next time we won't feel as tempted to rest on our ability, but we feel, you know, confident to go to him and pray the next time. And so I think that spending time with the Lord and allowing him to show himself to us, gives us a confidence and say, you know what, let me not do this on my own, you know, power and strength. Let me take it to the Lord in prayer and see what he has to say. I think it just builds up our faith because I think at the root of us trying to be productive on our own, It's a lack of trust.

Yeah. It's a lack of trust in God. But what I would add to that is, is that I know people who pray a lot and live bad. And it's because they are praying to a God that they don't even read about. And so they maybe are praying. maybe not helpful prayers or the things that they are asking, they don't have the spiritual maturity to discern the answer. Does it make sense what I'm saying? Yeah. So it's like, if I'm a person that prays but doesn't read the Bible, then even how God answers the prayer, I don't have a framework to figure out the answer myself. Yeah. Right? And so it's like, Lord, help me to know what I should do today. And they just like, oh, I'm gonna get drunk. I'm gonna do this.

I'm gonna do that. It's like you pray, but you didn't have any context for the answer when it's in the scriptures. Which is the love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, and soul, that the body belongs to the Lord. Like to be sober mind. You get what I'm saying? So I think we cannot separate praying from reading the Bible. They are very much intertwined. And so that's why it's helpful to actually be reading it and then pray.

praying or praying and then reading so that like, yeah, that's really good. We're walking right. That's really good because I think also what we're reading the Bible does, because the Bible is the reveal word of God, it gives us a framework for who God is. And so I think a lot of times in our prayer, we don't even really know as much about the character of God to even know how to communicate to him in the first place.

Interesting. And so I think understanding the mind of God will inform how we talk to him. Absolutely, tutally, foodily, yes. And so I think that understanding, like having a framework for who he is, I think we approach him different when we talk about people and when we talk about ourselves, when we talk about our children. And so I think that if you have this legalistic, this God who sits down and, you know, judges the ungodly, but not this fatherly figure who condescended and came a man and lived amongst people,

I think that the way you view God will inform how you pray. Yeah, no, it's totally like being informed is a thing. That's why the disciples, hey Jesus, teach us how to pray. How did he start? Our father, who art in heaven, hollow be thy name. How does he teach him? We begin with who God is in relationship to us. Whereas he's seated in heaven.

What does that mean? He's transcended. What does that mean? I don't approach him like he's a regular person. That's good. That off top changes how you pray. Yeah. Because it means like, oh, he's to be valued and respected, but he's also in heaven yet our father.

Therefore, he's transcended yet personal. And so everything about, I think, the scriptures can be really helpful in us being able to pray a certain kind of way. Let me just say this because, you know, I'm not even going to put this on other people because I know people like this, but I used to be like this. What was you like? When I first became a Christian, I was very, I was very legalistic. In what way? And how I viewed people's seeing. Like, I didn't humanize people.

I saw people seeing before I saw them. Okay. And so because I saw people sin, because before I saw them, when I prayed for people, it was always, um, I was always praying to the Lord to, like, correct people. Interesting. I was always praying for the Lord to, like, to like fix this, fix that, fix that. And it's like, no, like, you don't really understand me as like an intimate and personal God in the lives of others. So explain.

And so when I first came to the Lord, I believe, well, I know that it was a real supernatural conversion, right? but that that same experience that I had with the Lord, I didn't really like, I didn't really make that connection with other people to God. And so every time I saw people, it was always, I saw their sin, seeing, seeing, sin, seen, seen. And I know this is a podcast of prayer, not legalism, but what I'm saying is your character affected how you pray.

My character and how I viewed people affected how I pray for them because I didn't understand that the same God who had this close intimate relationship with me has the same intimate relationship and wants to have the same interrelationship with people. And so it wasn't until I stopped praying and start asking the Lord to humble me when he began to allow me to see people. And so it affected how I talked to people on the streets. I didn't want to just focus on a person's seeing, but I wanted to find out why are you sending it?

So how do you, what is the difference between your prayers now? Because you still, in reality, people still do need to be. Yeah. I think, I think the difference between my prayers then and my prayers now is that a person's, I look at a, I look at people in a more holistic way. Because I don't, I don't just think about their sin, but I also think about them, that person. Like I pray about, because I think sometimes we, if we only see people sin, that's the only thing we will pray for,

but we won't pray for the things that that calls them to make to have the sin in the first place. And so like if a person is, it's mean, right? It's like, oh. Are you talking about me? Yeah. If a person is mean, if we only see their sin, which is them being mean and not think about how they were hurt, right, that has caused them to clam up and to lash out. Interesting. We won't pray for that.

We only see their sin. It's like, no, like in prayer, I think God gives us. discernment when we're humble before him and not legalistic. No, like, no, there's a reason why this person is this way. I want you to care for this person. And so, like, it just changed the way I did ministry and changed the way how I interacted with people and not this legalistic, like, you're this, you're this, you're that. It changed the way I dealt with you, you know what I'm saying?

Praise God from whom all blessed you. Because I was calling out your sin, calling out this, calling out that. And I was literally going to the Lord. Like, this girl is mean. It's like, nah, this girl is protected. herself because she's vulnerable. You was gossiping with God. And so God was like, no, like, yeah, like in prayer, like I can reveal some things about you to people that would help you be a better minister. And yeah. I think what you said is actually really helpful and important

because I've seen it in my own life where praying for people is a way to cultivate love for people. Yes. Especially our enemies. Because Jesus tells us to pray for our enemies. And Most of our enemies aren't, we ain't out here like David with Saul trying to kill us. Some of us might be, I don't know. But most of us have just regular, regular people who are antagonistic towards us. Yeah. Or not for us or do not love us or who have hurt us or wound us. Maybe physically, emotionally, financially.

Like, they paid you back. Like, whatever the case may be. And Jesus tells us to pray for them. And I found that when I sincerely pray for them, person and what I mean is not just imprecatory prayers where it's like God be vengeful and enact justice and let your you know judgment fall upon their head I feel like Nigerians be praying like that and I think there I do think there's place to pray that God's justice will roll down like I like that's a that's a righteous thing for God to get his justice yet at the same time I feel

like when you pray good for people that have done you wrong, it forces your heart to move in a different way. That's good. Like, and I hate it, but I feel like I got to do it. Yeah. Because it's just like, if I don't pray good for you, what's going to happen is I'm going to start acting bad towards you. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Because I think if we, if we get out of prayer only like being this judgmental, you know, legalistic type of Christian, I think. that we have to like truly ask ourselves like no like the god really revealed to you all that he wanted to reveal to you in that prayer because we're we're complicated in holistic people and so like i don't know i there was just a lesson that i had to i had to learn um and i'm glad i did and i still

can be better at it to be honest with you but uh you never answered the question of the mechanics of how or where or when you pray like as a as a father a husband as a busy man yeah So I try to make it my business to pray as soon as I get up, you know. And so as soon as I get up, because I think there is a sweet and silent, you know, in quiet time to just pray before the busyness of the day happens. And so a lot of times I'm a night person. And so a lot of times I pray before, you know, I go to bed or I pray with you. But as soon as I wake up, you know, I try to pray.

But a lot of times my prayer, you know, is alone when I, you know, You know, before I write or before I study, you know, I try to pray. But I think it's, I don't know, it's just something about, something sweet about the morning that before the distractions of the day, before my kids wake up, before I say anything, just to say a quick pray. And sometimes those prayers are long, sometimes they're shorter. But I always try to pray before I wake up. Yeah, I rarely share where I pray because it just sounds weird. In the shower. In the shower.

Because it's so completely undistracted. Yeah. And so I will be in there a solid 20, 30 minutes. No phone, no nothing. Yeah. And just talk to the Lord. Another practical thing about prayer is that God has given us gifts. He's equipped a body or he's given us all gifts to equip the body for the work of ministry, right?

And I think one of the snares of our. giftings is that because it comes natural, we don't think, we don't, we forget to still pray that God would help us or use us or all the things. And I think as a writer in particular, that's why I feel that pressure the most. Like when I was writing my book or when we was writing poetry, you can kind of lean on your natural ability when God wants you to lean on his supernatural help. And I have found that when you depend on the Lord and you ask God to, you know, to meet you in your gifts and to use you with your gifts and to move through your gifts. Like it's, it transcends gifting.

Yeah, it does. Like it becomes a very spiritual and anointed and powerful situation. Preaching, boy. So before you write, praying, while you write, praying. Before you serve, praying, while you serve, praying. Before you preach, praying. I don't know. What else is there?

I just said hospitality, teaching. No, that's so real. because when we was writing poetry, I had to have so good at writing poems, I had to remind myself, no, I seek the Lord, you know,

for what he wants you to say. But when I transitioned to writing this here book, and I, you know, and I'm sending stuff back to these people, like, no, this is too short.

Like, this is, and he's like, no, I don't have nothing else to say. I've learned how to communicate a lot in a little writing poems and, like,

I just need your help, God. And so it's just a different piece. And so, like, like, no, just because God is gifted, that you doing something doesn't mean that you shouldn't stop seeking him in prayer.

And so now I just find myself just sitting there with my computer open saying, Lord, help me. Help me. And you know why it's good and healthy? It's because if the Lord has gifted you in a particular way, then that leaves a lot of room for boasting. And so if God puts you in a position where your giftedness is not good enough, then when you pray and it still succeeds and it's still useful and all the things, it eliminates any opportunity for posting.

It's so convicting. Because I'll be sitting at this, Jack, and you know this. I'll talk to you about it. I'll be sitting there like, Lord, I thought I was a writer. That's why people would be talking about writer's block. And writer's block is a thing, but sometimes it's the Lord humbling you. Yeah, yeah. And being like, nah, like I gave you that mind.

Like I know you're creative. I know you can write. I know you're a gifted writer, but I just want you to lean on me and I want to get closer to you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I feel like the Lord is literally drawing me closer to him in this writer book.

Because it's like it's not just about a book and you releasing the books of the masses. It's about my relationship with you present. I want to bring you closer to me. I want you to trust me more. I want to grow you in this. Come on. And so I think that prayer does that.

God will use it, of course, to edify his body. But he don't want to edit, he don't want to use you to edify people if he ain't getting closer to you. He don't want to use you to go out there and do all this stuff for people. If you ain't seeking him,

if you ain't growing closer to him, if you ain't calling on his name. Yeah. All that's cool, but it's like, no, like what about me and you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so like God has just been teaching me that, man.

You just preached to yourself, didn't you? Yeah. I feel like you did. Yeah. That wasn't for nobody. That was a boomer act. That wasn't for nobody else. Yeah.

Well, I'm in. Me myself in the house. Be myself and I is all the kind in the end. That's a really terrible song to end this conversation with. And so, bye. Peace. 30 Minutes with the Perry's is a production of Ivy Media podcast. Edited by Angie Elkins, video recording and audio production by Kim Powell,

artwork by hop and music by swoop. Join us on Patreon for early access to With the Perry's episodes and other exclusives. You got two options. you can go to www. patreon.com forward slash with the Perrys or just go ahead scroll. You'll find the link in our show notes. We are the Perrys. Thank y'all for listening.

Now go with God.