With The Perrys - Boy Mom Stuff, Preaching, and Other Gems with Priscilla Shirer

Episode Date: September 2, 2024

Young men today want to be poured into, and Priscilla Shirer’s new movie is all about the power of prayer and discipleship in a boy's life. In this episode, Priscilla talks with the Perrys about parenting boys and how God has taught her to surrender her comfort in the “rough and tumble” of them growing up to be men. What did Priscilla’s parents do to instill deep faith and closeness as a family? What has been her biggest burden in ministry? It’s all in this episode. Watch the trailer for “The Forge,” in theaters now – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JA9dvdlraw Subscribe to the Perrys' newsletter: https://withtheperrys.myflodesk.com/zhfus4jx1s Join Preston's discipleship community for men: https://www.patreon.com/PrestonPerry/membership To support the work of the Perrys, donate via PayPal: https://paypal.me/withtheperrys Shop BOLD Apparel: boldapparel.shop Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hi, Preston Perry. Hi, Jackie O'Perry. How's your morning? How are you? I'm actually having a very good morning. Why? Because I was having back pains, as you know. You should tell the people about that. I don't feel like revisiting my trauma.

I'll tell the people. So the thing is, Preston, he has a young face, but he has an old body. Oh, my gosh. Wow, Bucco. Why would you say that? A part of him having an old body is about every couple months. Maybe every other quarter he throws his back out. Throwing your back out.

Listen to me. In your 30s, it's crazy. Listen to me. I don't have an old body. I just got one little dis. That one little dis is old. Everything else is young. So when my mama said,

pick up the plant with the monster, if people have seen it, it looks like the size of the house. When she said, pick up a plant, what in your mind said, huh? I don't know why I did that. All the wisdom left my body

when I decided to pick up that, but I don't know why I did it. You know. But I feel like you're shaming me. I feel shamed. It's just when I came. There's no condemnation with those who are in Christchise. When I came home when your back was crooked, I just, I was more so, I was disappointed

than everybody. I just don't know why anybody didn't think through like that, this is not Preston's thing. Like he shouldn't, he shouldn't, I'm sure you didn't binge your needs. Oh, that's a same subject. We got a guest today. You didn't grace your core. We got a, we got a special guess. We got a guest guess.

Well, how, I miss Priscilla? how you doing? How are you doing? Thank y'all for having me. And she's drippy. Yes, she is. Am I? With the Gucci Gucci.

You're out here with the good. She got the little quaint. I see you. A little modest one. Wow. I mean, she's calling everybody out today. I just got here. I got a little modest Gucci.

I like some Gucci. It's all right. How are you? I'm good. How are you? I'm good. It's good to see you. It's good to see you too.

This is actually real random. Because I think I don't, I don't be seeing you do podcasts. I just told you like that. You know what I'm saying? And then I saw you doing podcasts and things. I was like, I feel like she going to be in Atlanta soon. I turned a person.

I said, you think I should invite myself. I said, heck of yeah, Bucco. I never met the legend. I felt confident. I felt like, I feel like I could ask and she'll be like, yeah. I'm so glad you did. And I was like, how quick can we get to Jackie Hill Perry,

Preston Perry's house? We figured it out. We said this when you came here, but I was like, it's weird. When I saw you, it's weird, yeah. I feel like I see. you before, but I haven't seen you before.

We never met. No, not in person. Never in person. But I've known your wife, really the first time we met, well, I didn't meet you, but impact movement was the first time you and I were in the same space yet. That would have been 99. Yeah. Yeah. That was, you preached

when I was a new Christian, so that would have been like 2008. Okay, so two thousand, I just dated myself. Yeah, yeah. That was ten and night. But that was so long ago, and then our paths crossed more just in ministry and stuff. But I just have known you from a What's crazy is, like, my wife, she's, she's a little different. She don't take to everybody.

She don't, you know what I'm saying? Like, she ain't bogus. She's not about that life. She's just saying, you know what I'm saying? And so it's not a lot of people. She come home and talk about. She's through the year, she's always talked about your sincerity, your love of God. She reminds you as a mother, all the things.

And so it's just a honor to meet you. And I'm not just saying that. Like, she really speaks very highly of you. I appreciate that. Yeah. Appreciate that. Because I think when you, when, I think especially as, as I've been in this industry with preaching, teaching, author, speakers, all the stuff, there's just a lot of pretension. And so I think to, to meet somebody where it's like, oh, no, like, I'm just a black woman who loves the Lord and I'm honest.

And I'm like, she's checked me multiple times. It's good. Keep checking her. Did I check you? Yeah, a little bit, a little bit, a little bit about my schedule, about, you know, author stuff. But it's like a big sister. Like, no, that's actually wrong. But here's a different perspective you can consider.

And I appreciate that. Husbands appreciate when they have, you're not an old woman, but older women who have wisdom. Understood. You know. And I say I understand because I would not have made it had there not be some women in my life that were like, come your little girl. Sit right here real quick. Let me help you. And I'm so grateful.

You don't even know in the, it's hindsight, you look back and go, oh my gosh, if this woman hadn't taken time, the course correct. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. Yeah. Before we get into all the things, let's talk about your movie coming out. Okay.

It's called The Forge or Forge? The Forge. Okay. What's it about? I've seen the preview at Generations Conference with C.C. And the women in the room were so excited. Really? Yeah.

Like, because it was like a long trailer where it's like the boy and then he gets connected to the man. And then the man helps him be a man. And I was just like, it felt like, they was reflecting on their own kids and their own nephews and their own sons and they felt empowered and excited. I gave a synopsis. Okay, so the forge, really for anybody that enjoyed War Room, they'll be endeared to the forge because it's in the same world.

So you'll see some of the same characters from War Room, including Miss Clara. And then they introduce a whole new line of characters. This film centers on one of those new characters, who is Isaiah. He's a 19-year-old, African-American young man, being raised by a sense. single mother. And can I just tell you, when they called me and said, we want you to be the mother of a 19-year-old, I was like, that won't work. That won't come across true on camera at all. And then I remember, I had a 19-year-old son. You do. So then it occurred to me. I probably looked like that. So they asked me to do it, and I read the script and I thought, I'm in. I'm in for several reasons.

Number one, because the Kendrick brothers have integrity. These men, these filmmakers, they love Jesus for real. They're trying to edify God's people and they're trying to write good stories with good quality so that people like us want to go to the movies and support a film like this. That's neat it. Isaiah is just floundering in his life. He's not a bad kid. He's just in that tender place between teenagehood and manhood. And he hasn't had a male role model to come alongside of him and basically hand him his man card. And so Cynthia begins to get all the frustration you feel when you're watching your kids squander his time, his money, his money, money, no motivation towards the future.

So she's like, let me tell you what we're not going to do. You're not going to sit around here and play video games all that. You can sleep on your friends' couch for free. But here you're going to pay rent. Oh, that's dope. You know, and I can feel that because I have three sons. And, you know, they're grown. They're 21, 20, and 15 years old.

And there are times where you literally are like, what are we doing? Yeah. And she realizes that as good of a mother as she's tried to be. what she cannot do is hand him his man card. And so she's saying to God, would you please send some man in his life that will affirm him, challenge him, and shake him awake? Yeah. And then through a series of events, he meets Joshua Moore, who I'm so glad he's written

into this script, not as a pastor or somebody in vocational ministry. He is a successful businessman. And he meets Isaiah. And this successful businessman is always looking around him at his company and saying to the Lord. Okay, but who am I assigned to outside of business? Wow. So he gets this young man under his wing, challenges him, doesn't pull no punches in it, and invites him into a life with Jesus and what it looks like to be. It's basically discipleship. The movie is discipleship. That's what I was about to say. That's what it is. It's mentorship, discipleship, and you watch the trajectory of

this young man's life completely change because there is an older man who pays attention to him. Wow. The church needs this movie. Like for real. That's a adult breakdown. That's a little literally my story. A young man came in my life. The ex-came member. He was going to Moody College. My aunt told me to come live with her after my friend got killed. And she introduced me to this guy named Gary Brown. He was going to Moody. He taught me how to read the Bible. He checked me. He disciplined me. He told me how to pray. Everywhere he went, he took me with him. And one day, I felt the weight of my sin.

And I cried out to God and asked him to save me. My prayer was literally God. I want to love you like Gary loves you. forgive me for my sin. And God came in my heart and saved me. And so the power of discipleship is so needed. Necessary. You know, men pouring into other men. The number one question, I come home. I came home one day sad from an event telling my wife that this young dude came up to me,

literally crying because he felt like nobody wanted to disciple him. And so like the number one thing that I get from young men, it's like I need to be poured into. I need to be disciple. And so, yeah, this movie sounds like it's needed in our culture. I would be curious to hear both of y'all's perspective on, let's say, a single mother in particular, watches this film. It's like, you know what? I never consider that I need to pray to outsource mentorship and discipleship for my son.

What does that mother do if the son doesn't want it? Like what environment does she create? Is it just she prays? Is it she needs to find a particular kind of man to connect her? Is he need to be in sports? Maybe that'll warm his heart. Like, what is the thing? Well, that is hard because they, you know, Elijah has to have a receptive,

Elisha for the mantle to be received. He can offer it, but if it's not being received, then. So I do think that it feels passive, but I do feel like prayer is actually the very proactive way that a mother says, change my son, my daughter, for that matter, their heart so that they begin to realize. that they don't even know what they don't know. And they need something that they don't even recognize is actually what they need. So, Lord, would you do the part that it doesn't matter how much discipline, how much talking we do? In fact, all the talking can work in the opposite direction when they're hearing it from us.

It literally is the hound of heaven reaching down into the depths of their soul and shaking them out of a spiritual slumber. And it's stuff you can't orchestrate. Yeah. Most of the time, because when they're 19, 20, and 21, you're not with them. You're not in their dorm room. You're not on their college campus. You're not with them when they're hanging out with their friends. You need the Lord to be doing stuff and orchestrating stuff that you are not around to navigate or to manipulate or to control.

So yeah, they end up playing basketball and there is a coach. And that coach right there, he's the one that the Lord is intersecting with your kid's life. Or they get a summer job. And the employer at that summer job is the one that the Lord you don't even know has aligned them to say the right thing to water a seat. You know, that's the stuff you can't. Yeah, you can't construct that. And for me, I think, you know, my mom reminded me of the, you know, the things that my grandmother said when I was young, my grandmother when I was three gave my mom a word that I'll teach the gospel in creative ways. So my whole life, she would always tell me, you're going to preach the gospel.

And I'm like, mom, that's never going to happen. Yeah. You know, and it wasn't until, you know, she started to like truly pray for me and putting me around people like my aunt. she just realized she couldn't do it. Like one, like you said, I just, her voice became so normal to me. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And so it just wasn't effective anymore.

But also, too, I do think that it's important that you kind of live a life that you want your kids to see because my mom, no shit. Mama, you see this, no offense. You only invited me to church when I got arrested. Oh, man. Oh, man. Did you just put your whole mama on a dress like that? Oh, man. It's like she made church feel like a punishment.

She's a great mom, Ms. Pam. She was a great mom. Ms. Pamela, you were fantastic. But she wasn't a churcher. Okay. It's like, man, I didn't mess up again. I got to go to Sunday school. So it was disciplinary.

It was discipline. And it wasn't until I got around Christians. I got in an environment where I saw that church. You can enjoy that life. Yeah, it wasn't robotic. You know what I'm saying? People love Jesus. somebody who represented me

Gary Brown, he was a young dude who represented me. I felt like if God had a relationship with him, maybe he wants to have a relationship with me too. That's good. And so, yeah, yeah. With your boys, one, did you expect to have all three boys? Like, did you want a girl?

Did you want to mix it up? That the Lord was, or the Lord was like, no, I'm going to get your boys. The Lord was like, I'm going to give you boys. And when I was pregnant with my first son, I remember feeling like, oh, this is a girl. Like, I was thinking that. And then it was Jackson. And after that, I was done.

I was in boy mode. So, and I knew that I was settled in it because I never felt any regret that I didn't have girls. I have a ton of, I have a gaggle of nieces. Yes, she did. And I just feel very content. So after your first boy, you didn't want girls? No, I wouldn't say I didn't want them, but I was content having boys.

Oh, wow. And I'm going to tell you a little bit of a backstory with that. My husband, Jerry, who's sitting right over there, I wish he was over here on camera with me. Hey, Jerry. We've been married 25 years now. So the first, thank you, we made it. Yeah, you did. The first year of our marriage, we were at a family reunion on his side.

Okay. So we're sitting at this family reunion, looking around and enjoying ourselves, got a crab boil going on over there. Somebody fried chicken over there was the best. And a cousin, random cousin of Jerry's, I'm just kind of meeting everybody for the first time. Random cousin comes over to Jerry and casually says, you know if you and Priscilla don't have boys, the Shire name will die with y'all. So I just looked over at Jerry and I remember watching that settle on him. Like he was looking around like, oh my gosh, that's correct.

He has girl cousins in his family, but they were married so their name is not Shire anymore. All of the men had girls. Wow. Okay. So it dawned on him. That man looked at me at the family reunion and, and with the weight of what I now know was the whole voice of God on him. He looked at me and said, I think God is doing this on purpose.

Wow. I think when we have children, we're going to have all boys. Wow. Jerry, all of the men in Jerry's family left their wives, did not raise their children, did not live with any sort of integrity. Wow. So he said, I think God is doing this on purpose so he can set a whole new trajectory. of what it means to be a man and have the last name Shire. That gave me chill bumps.

That gave me chill bumps. Jerry Prophet? I mean, seriously, it was one of those moments where you look back on it and go, that was God for real. Because here we are. The only boys in the family on that side in this generation are three boys named Jackson, Jerry, and Jude Shire, our sons. Wow. So we believe that's because his mother, Jerry's mother, who was a single mother and had to do it all herself, she said, my boy's not going to be like this.

She was resilient and determined and disciplined and prayed for her sons and asked God to change the whole situation. And now she has grandsons that we are praying. You know, they have to make their choices. But we have prayed for them. We believe God's mantle is on them to do exactly what the Holy Spirit said to Jerry that day 24 years ago now. And we're like, boys, now it's no pressure, but kind of. Yeah. But not to please us or.

God's hand is on your life. Wow. Listen to the voice of God. Make good decision. Surround yourself with godly people and walk in a manner worthy of this calling. That's beautiful. I got a question.

So I'm sorry, you had a question? Just a caveat next to that is, I wanted boys. That's what I'm about to say. I wanted boys and I know it's because boys would have felt more natural to your mother. Not as vulnerable. Like I wouldn't have had to be as.

And you do. have to be sensitive and careful, but I think my mind will say if I have boys, I don't have to, you know, deal with tears as much and stuff like that. But so when we had back to back to back girls. Back to back to back. I remember, I remember seeing that the Lord was pulling out a nurturing side of me. Yeah. Because of these girls in a way that boys I don't think would have done. And so I want to ask like when it, when it comes to being a boy mom, what is it that God has pulled out of you through parenting them? That is a very good question.

I would probably say, I'm already wired in a pretty easy going, spontaneous kind of way, but I do think there is a structure that you think your life is going to include before you have children, period. Everything can line up kind of neatly. The way you want it, the schedule, your living space, it's going to look a certain way. You know, you got it. And then you have boys. And Lord have, I don't know what August is over here doing. but I'm just saying my boys were doing the most.

So it was rough and tumble as it should be. And being able to learn to relax in the messiness and the adventurness and the robustness and the tackledness of having all of that testosterone rumping around. I think it just makes you relax more and just go, you know what? I actually am not their protector. And if I overprotect trying to make it fit into a package that feels comfortable for me, I am going to pull out of these boys exactly what it is that makes them men. Wow.

If that makes them, I've got to let them hurt themselves. That's good. Do you know what I'm saying? I've got to let them be all of that fire and all that. That's what's going to make them men later. Yeah. So I can't feminize the process.

That's so good. Because it feels more comfortable to me. Woof. That's powerful. You preaching. Go ahead. I'm holding it in. So the question that I want to.

to ask is when we had three girls back to back to, so it's like literally the opposite of you guys. And then we had our last child was a son and he's two now. But your boys are older. And so what does it look like to nurture but at the same time disciple young boys who are growing up? Because boys can be, we could be stubborn in a different type of way, a different type of rebellion, you know. And so what does it look like to raise boys in Christ? But at the same time, raising them as young man. Like, what does that process look like for you and your husband? I know.

See, I was about to say, I wish Jerry was sitting over here because a lot of it is, which is hard when you are a strong personality as a woman, a lot of it is when you have a father in the home or father figures around your boys, it's falling back and letting that man do it, which means it's going to be tougher sometimes than you would prefer as the mother. Oh, he's looking all the way at you. I'm not sure why. We can process that later. But there is even a resonance in Jerry's voice.

There is a factor about just his stature that speaks and communicate something to them in the discipline process, that if I said the same thing just because of the tone of my voice and my stature, it doesn't communicate to them the same, it doesn't have the same weightiness. So sometimes the hardest thing for me was falling back and letting Jerry be the same. their dad and trusting that the Lord knew that he was going to be their father. Because there are a lot of things we disagree on in the way that I would have disciplined in a situation or the way that I would have given them the boundaries I would or would not have given them in a certain situation. And the hardest thing is falling back and remembering God knew this was going to be their daddy. Yeah, that's good. So that didn't quite answer your question. But you looked at, all, you looked at

me because you, because when you be like choking him? Well, not choking, but like, wow. wrestling. Yeah, we're wrestling. She just thinks that I kind of a little rough with August. And it's like, no, he needs that. I mean, but sometimes y'all do be a little. No, he needs that. You know what I'm saying?

You know what I'm saying? Like, he won't be crying or nothing. He'd be liking it. She'd be like that's too. Sometimes. I also don't. Yeah. Most of the times he liked it.

I give you a lot of space and a lot of room. You're growing. It ain't even a growth. It's just is what it is. I'm talking to you a lot of space of room. I'm just saying sometimes when the boy's crying, doing a slap on the chin. this a bit much.

Give them up. That's all I'm saying. Okay. I just, it came to my spirit. I'm not saying this to Holy Spirit. It just resonated in my heart. I'm thinking about stories I've seen, situations I've heard about where boy moms, low-key be functioning like a wife.

So when the girlfriend comes or the wife comes, there's competition. Yeah. I'm already going to have trouble with that. I'm already praying about that. for my own life. What does that stem from? I just want us to talk about that. Yeah, and I don't know if I can help you with there.

Is there, would there be, because I do, I can, I can, I not, not understand it in a sense that I relate, but when I had August, there was a particular love I had for him that was different than the girls. It wasn't higher or less. It just was different. It's different. And I was like, oh, I could see how a woman, particularly a single woman, might be more attached to their sons in a way where when another woman comes in, it feels like that love is

being threatened, right? And so I guess my question is like even what would be some wisdom or some perspective that a mother should have about her love for her son that actually frees him up to explore love outside of his love with his mother. Does it make sense what I just say? Yeah. So when somebody figures out the answer to that, if you would send the email, we would know. Because your oldest is 19. My oldest is 21. He's going to be 22 in a month. Wow. So we're entering that phase where none of my boys have had a serious girlfriend yet. And so we're entering that phase, though, where it has occurred to me that there's going to be some joker walking up in here with my boys. And at some point, they're going to be very serious about this young lady.

So you haven't crossed that row yet. I haven't crossed it in a large way. Like they've had a few friends, but not like this is my girlfriend, mom and dad. I'm really feeling this situation. So I know I already can feel the prickliness in my heart about it. My mother-in-law was, I mean, I hit the mother-in-law jackpot. She is in heaven now. But this woman, I mean, she just made me feel like I have been waiting for you. I am so glad you are here, come.

You are mine and I am yours. Let's love this new family together. Oh, that's beautiful. So it was beautiful. So she is a role model for me in that way. way and I'm already, I've been praying for my son's wife since they were little. Like I have journal entries from when they were three and four. Lord, wherever his wife is, if she, she's probably born by now, six, seven. She's probably here. So Lord, give her parents wisdom. Would you help her to

put a hedge of protection around her? Father, prepare her mind and heart for my son and my son for her. Like I've been praying for her. So when she arrives, I'm hoping I recognize her. Wow. Right? Because she's been on my mind. And I'm hoping that there is a supernatural tethering of our souls that I can't create. And I'm already praying that the Lord would soften my heart to make space and to fall back in the way my mother-in-law did so me and Jerry could be me and Jerry. But it is a matter of prayer because that prickliness you're describing that feeling of like, oh, she's going to be, she's going to be in my space. She's going to be all up on my son. She don't even know him like that. You know? I'm hoping. And I said this to my niece who just got married. I said to me, one of the biggest

gifts you can give to your new mother-in-law is not in, not in a manufactured ways, but when there are natural ways for you to show that you do not either know the dynamic of marriage or of her son like she does, meaning if he's, if he's maybe sad or something, ask her, Miss Tammy, how do you deal with Keziah when he's sad? Is there anything I could do to chairman? What is his favorite food? Can you show me how to make it. That will endear your heart to her because it shows that you respect the fact that she has given her whole life to this kid and knows him better than you do. So, you know, when you come in with that arrogance, like I got it, you just got here. You just met him a year ago. Y'all just started marriage. You don't know, you don't know nothing. Right, right, right.

So I'm hoping there's a sweetness to this young woman and that she would recognize, I actually can't help you. I'm not against you. I'm with you. So what do you? So what do you? you want to know about Jackson, about J.C., about Jude. That's good. I think that will help the process some, but I am praying that my heart will be tenderized and prepared for. I love that. Yeah, that's good. I want to switch gears a little bit. Because I think, I know social media kind of creates like this illusion that we know people, right? Yeah, yeah. Parassocial relationships. Parascial relationships. I really like that phrase. You know, like that's explain it. Can I explain it? It's basically where you have visibly interacted with somebody online or in print or media

where you formed a relationship and a bond, but you don't actually know them. Yeah. So it's parisocial. It's not real. Parasocial. I like to compare it to like that the words in the rivie mirror, like, objects in his mirror seem closer than they appear. I think that's a great.

That's it. I literally think that's social media in a nutshell, you know. I'm totally, that is going in a whole. sermon. Thank you for that. That was fine. But, but, but at the same time, I think when people look at you, you know, some people on social media, they can be like genuinely inspired. Yeah. By what they see, you know, and I think when it comes to you and your family, you know, I think for a lot of people, you guys have been like the model family of what, of what you want to see, you know, your father is a giant in the faith. Your mother was a great woman of God,

you know, and like, and all their kids. seem to be walking with the Lord, right? And so even when I look at you guys, I'm like, my oldest is nine and my youngest is two. And so I would love the fact if all my kids can be walking with the Lord and I can have dinner with all my children.

Me too. And there's retreats and stuff. No, I'm pointed to y'all family. I'll be telling them, I said, they always, like, not always, but they'd be together. Together, yeah. I'd remember I text you,

I said, y'all be all holding each other's elbows and things. I don't know if y'all plan to do that. That's so beautiful. I'd be like, man, you know, Dr. Eric Mason, he'd be telling me how he loves the family and, you know, and all the things. And so we know people who close to you guys and just confirm what we see on social media. So I guess my question is, like, what, like, what does your parents do to instill such a great faith in their children? Yeah. That allowed you guys to all be walking with the Lord and just also just form that close-knitted family.

Yeah. I think that's what we all want. Yeah. Yeah, me too for my sons. Yeah, I get it. Yeah, like so. So what did they do? I will say there are two things that come to my mind.

One is an intangible, and that is consistency and integrity. That was one thing, that we didn't see our parents behave one way outside of the house, and then they came home. There was just duplicity. We did not see that. Yeah. And now as an adult, particularly a preacher's kid adult, I realized the rarity and the value of being able to say,

my parents would the same at home as they were at church. They were not perfect. They said, they've told us they would go back and do something differently. But I think because overall, they just had integrity and character. It gave, it didn't put a distaste in our mouth for ministry, for church.

We didn't think ministry was a job. Like it never even occurred to us. Ministry is something you decide to do. Yeah. Because it was just an overflow of, they were living the whole thing that they were describing to other people and encouraging them around family dynamics. So that intangible of integrity, I think, is huge.

The other thing is they chose a few things we were going to do together as a family and they consistently showed up to do it. Meaning, mom was going to make some dinner and we were going to sit around the table and have dinner. It didn't matter if we had attitude problems. It didn't matter if we liked the way she made the chicken tonight. And it was frustrating. And now I have an appreciation for it because I know how it feels to you made dinner. And somebody has the nerve to sit down and they don't want what you made.

to still do it the next day anyway. Wow. Yeah. To still sit there anyway. Nobody wants to talk. Everybody's mad. Everybody don't want to go watch TV. But you're going to make them sit down at this table.

And we're going to eat this dinner. That's good. Okay. So there is a closeness that develops simply because the parents decide this what we doing. And it doesn't matter whether you want to or not. Your desire to do it has no bearing on whether or not your father and I are making this choice that we are doing. as a part of our family culture. So they chose that.

There was like family dinner during which dad, because he's dad, would always do like a two-minute devotional. And I want to say that very lightly because whatever you think it would look like to have a two-minute devotional with four small kids, that's what it looked like. It wasn't Priscilla Shire and Anthony Evans sitting around the table and partaking in the word. It was chaos. So there's forks flying.

Jonathan's crawling at the table. They had to keep smacking, get your elbows off the table, listen to what I'm saying, repeat back to me. It was a mess. Yeah. They did it anyway. Yeah. And now I know how exhausting that was for them to keep doing it. We did a family vacation every year, dad's month, still to this day, his vacation month is August.

We would get in a van that we would borrow because they didn't have no many van. They didn't have a van. They would borrow this van. We would get into it and basically be gone for three weeks. traveling, driving to Baltimore where his people are so that we could see our grandparents and cousins up there and then we would pick different places every summer they'd map it out. That's exhausting. Yeah, it is.

To have four small kids in a van driving across country. Man. They did it anyway. Wow. This is convicting. Yeah, I mean, I just think there are choices to decide here's what our family is going to do and that it is irrelevant on whether or not the children want to do it. Yeah.

Yeah. That developed this. We together. It's us. Do you know what I'm saying? So Jerry and I are the same way in that, you know, there are things that, and he didn't grow up with that kind of a family dynamic. They were together a lot, but not like in a vacation kind of way.

They were together a lot because it was a single parent home and they had to do what they had to do to make the house work. You know what I mean? That was me. We were together because we had to be together. Right. But they wouldn't sit around playing no uno and all that, like his game night. He was like game night.

You know, what you're talking about? Yeah. So however it works for you, just I think being intentional about how do we make our children, we're going to watch the television together. Like, you know, it was easier when we were coming up, y'all, because it wasn't phones everywhere, right? Now it's going to be super hard to, as parents, it's hard for me to be like, no, we're not going to be on our devices all separate everywhere. Yeah. We're going to sit down together and watch this program.

This is our program together as a family. I think any ways that you're able to just pull that into your family dynamic, make this what we do. Yeah. That starts to just make the siblings have to get over their tiffs with each other, go through the tiffs with each other. I don't like you. That's fine.

Y'all still fin to sit here and watch this show, you know, or eat this dinner. That's good. That's good. One more question. Fantastic. Yeah. One more question. So I want to talk about you, like, what was your favorite journey growing up?

You know, I heard that you got in a little trouble growing up. And, you know, like people might look at your family and be like, man, that's the model family. I think people might look at you and see all that you. you've done in the faith, you know. They probably think you John the Baptist. Yeah. Like you came, you came out the wound with the Holy Ghost. Yeah.

You asked my parents that. And so, and so, like, I think, I think you could be encouraging to explain to people, like, in which ways you attempted to stray away from. Yep. The teachings and the, you know, the stuff that your parents kind of imparting in you and how the Lord drew you back. In a couple of ways, one of them I didn't realize was happening. But I was the, if there is a black sheep of the four of us, well, I was the one.

Really? Uh-huh. The one that makes the parents be like, oh, father. Help us, God. This one right here, we don't know if she's going to make it. That was me. So I spent most of my teenagers grounded, being disciplined for something. I was just the one that had the rebellious streak.

I'm going to do either the complete opposite or I'm going to be right on the line of what you said. He did. He didn't. And me. Okay. So one of the things, though I'll say before I get to the teenage parts was growing up, what I majorly got in trouble four, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve,

was talking too much, talking too much, talking out of turn, talking wrong tone, all the things. The teacher had to call, mom and dad said, she, I told a girl to be quiet, she won't be quiet, all that. So I'd be disciplined, basically, for talking, but my dad in particular, both of them, my dad would always say, after being disciplined, because you're going to respect this teacher, and you're going to respect your mother and all that. But then he would say, you know what? I think maybe you have the gift of communication. And I think if you would just mature in this area

and surrender this part of your life to the Lord, it could be exactly what he's called you to do. Okay? So, man, I have remembered that so much in my parenting with my boys that the thing that is getting them in trouble could actually be the thing that is divine wiring for their future. So if there's no. No discipline and no discernment in the parent to also see where it's possible to affirm them in that same thing.

Wow. Then you could be suffocating the very thing that they just need to surrender, not get rid of. Wow. But surrender to the Lord. That's what my dad did. I mean, he was like, I think this, I think you're supposed to be communicating. Wow. Wow.

So I guess what I hear you saying is what your father did was he, he shaped your will. He didn't try to destroy it. That's exactly right. Wow. Now he whooped me. Hello. Yeah. Because you're not going to disrespect the teacher. You're not going to be disobedient and be raggedy.

But I'm telling you, it could be something that you're intentionally designed with a gift to do. So that was one of the things I got in trouble. We're just talking too much, man out of turn and all that. And then I got into my teenage years and just all the things, you know, all the things that wasn't supposed to be doing. Like talking on the phone after a certain time. And we had a line in our room. You know, we had a house phone. But then me and Crystal at some point.

got our own line in our room. And there was a certain time we're not supposed to be on the phone. I was always out on the phone with a boy after the hour. I wasn't supposed to talk to boys on the phone until I was 17, I think. I couldn't talk to boys on the phone. Couldn't go on dates. I'm out, you know, going to youth group. But I'm going to youth group because I'm meeting a guy that I'm going sitting next to. We might walk to the Brahms down the street, you know, during service. You don't I mean? Then come back. That was me. So then, of course, your parents always are alerted, whether it's because somebody just saw me at the Brahms or it's because the Holy Spirit is like, Snitches gets stitches.

Some's off. Some ain't going. The Holy Spirit, he's the biggest snitch. That's right. So I always got caught in all my, and so I was grounded all the time, basically grounded. And then in college, I just was raggedy. She said raggedy. I was raggedy.

I just did not make wise decisions. I was in places. Man, oh my gosh. help a god or rescued me yeah he did because I remember being in basically a trap house

went to a party you were in a trap house? That's what that's what Evans that back went to Evans days Evans you was around on crack rocks I'm pretty sure that's what it was I went to a I will not say which fraternity

but me and my friend Sunni we went to a frat party and when I think about it, walking into that door and seeing all these men doing what they were doing, playing spades and dominoes and doing the most, smoking, drinking 40s everywhere. And me and this little girl, 18 years old, walking through there, oh my gosh. There ain't no way I should have made it out of there without being damaged in some way when I think about it. I can give you scenario after scenario where just lack of wisdom where you don't even.

know how dumb you are and how much trouble you're getting yourself into until you look back and go, ooh, if the Lord had not been a hedge of protection around me, I would not have made it. So just dumb decisions, wrong influences, being very casual about the way I spent my time and with whom I spent it, just sort of. And then the Lord was, his grace was sufficient for my raggedy stage. Wow, that's encouraging. If I'm not mistaken, didn't you go to, didn't you go to? school for journalism? I did.

Okay. Radio and television, yeah. How did that become preaching? Okay. So because dad was saying to me, communications might be something that you should consider, you know, when you go to college, do radio and television. So I went to school to be a broadcast journalist news. I wanted to be a news anchor. While I was in school, because my degree was radio and television, I interned at a radio station, a Christian radio station in Houston, KHCB Radio. They gave me this little hour-long program

on a Saturday, mostly playing music, but then, you know, as DJs used to do, you talk every three songs. You got a little minute. And because as a Christian station, I would just share something encouraging around a scripture verse or something for 60 seconds. People started to call the radio station maybe three times a year and say, can that girl come and do a Bible study for our women are coming? So I would just show up, drive my little green Mitsubishi eclipse 45 minutes away. It'd be 10 women sitting there. And I'd share God's word. And they'd give me a chicken dinner and some gas money and I went back home. And then four months later, somebody would call the station and say, can that girl come?

And sometimes I'd show up and there'd be 400 women in there. I don't think they knew I was 19. But I would do the same thing. I would just share God's word like it was the eight women sitting there. And honestly, to make a long story short, the calls to do that never stop coming, Jackie. And it's been 25 years. There was no strategy. There was no plan.

The doors for television kept like obviously closing after I graduated from school. and then these opportunities to just share God's word kept coming. And I just kept saying, okay, I'll go share God's word. I did that at SMU. There were eight women that gathered at SMU for five years, and I went every week and just shared God's word to those eight women. I did not know that the discipline of just preparing for that, the illustrations that I had as I looked at God's word,

that was the fodder for what was an entire full-time ministry that the Lord would be entrusting to me in the future. I didn't know that then. I was just sharing God's word with whatever, whoever he put in front of me. I'm going to say one more thing. I'm going to let this go. This is a good conversation. I love this.

So my dad said to me, after I graduated from college, something that has become the compass for, I guess, the rest of my life up until now. I said, Dad, I'm graduating. I love radio now because I've gotten a chance to do it at this internship. I still want to pursue broadcast journalism. That's what my degree is in. I love that. But every now and then I get to share God's word and it lights us fire in me that I also love. And, you know, he said to me, okay, which one of those things would you do if you were not getting paid to do it?

That question has been the compass for the last 25 years. Wow. That's it. It has made the choice for me on projects, invitations, opportunity. It doesn't matter how big it is, how good it is, how everybody thinks I should do. it, how much money is attached to it or not, I'm always asking, what would I do if there was no dollar amount attached to this? And that's how I make the decisions and what has basically made the chart, the course correction for what has become the last 25 years of life.

Is that question right there? That's good. It's really good. I have so many thoughts. Because on one end, I want to affirm how your story can be typical when it comes to discerning call in the sense of ability but also availability. Like you have the ability to speak well

and teach and articulate and communicate but you also, the Lord was opening doors giving you the ability to walk in your ability. You know what I'm saying? Because you have some people they're trying to manufacture a call.

Yes. It's like, I don't know if your gift to do that I just think you want to. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like that's different. But God obviously allow your gifts

to make room for you. Like he put you in positions, put you in certain, you know what I'm saying, like situations where like he, like it became, it was organic, you know, like it was clearly his sovereign will for you to, for you to speak, you know, to, to, to, to, to this generation. But next to that, both of y'all make me jealous, okay? This is why. Because you be up here, you too, on these stages, not looking at no notes or no manuscript. And I don't understand how y'all Negroes. can get up here for 20, 30 minutes. Why would I be Nicarious? Because I feel away. It just be beautiful and it makes sense and it's coherent.

I'm like, how is she not? I feel like me and you had a conversation about this. I was like, are you memorizing the thing? Are you what? Can you remind me what you? Because you do have teachers and preachers listen to this like, I feel stuck to a manuscript or you got the people like, I want to be, what's the word?

It's not spontaneous. What's the word? I know what you're trying to say, but now you're asking I'm not going to be able to think of the word. Yes. Be jealous of her more because she'd do it way better than me. No, but I also seen you teach Genesis

and you put a bullet point that said star and you talk for 20 minutes off that one bullet point. Me, I would have to spell out everything. Well, for me, you know, like I have my own set of challenges which forces me to teach that way. So it's not even like a flex.

It is I can't read my own handwriting at times. I'm like, port-a-line a little dyslexic when it comes to just like skipping. That's what my brother Jonathan would say exactly that. Yeah, I'll be reading a line and my eyes would go up and I'm reading the long line and I get misplaced. And so I had to just learn how to memorize scripture. I have to memorize things fast, even my poems that I write.

I had to stop writing them down. And so I write all my poems in my head. I memorize it and then I performed them. And so that's my own set of challenges. And so, you know, but at the same time, I think people who don't be doing stuff be wishing they can do, because I wish I could do what you did.

You do it. Because it's like, man, everything she says sounds so beautiful. It's poetic, ain't it? Perfect. And I'm like, man, man. Mine's just so raggedy. And so it's like, bro, like go back to the hood, Bucco.

No. No, that's great. That's great. And so, you know, grass is always green on the other side, but both of you guys are just really great communicators of the gospel. I guess what I want to get at is the people who are listening, how did you find your lane when it comes to preaching and teaching, especially the fact that you were raised up under someone who was praised and honored for their teaching your homiletical skill? Like, how did you

find your space? You know, I did not know until later that I was in a masterclass for communication my whole life. Every Sunday watching Tony Evans preach is a masterclass. in not only theological depth and depth and exegetical teaching of the scriptures, but just plain old oratory skill. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That man can communicate. Yes, he can. Yes, he can.

So honestly, my style of teaching and preaching just comes from, that's what I've absorbed every Sunday since I was one year old, that style. So there's going to be three points. It might become four every now, I'm in. But in general, you're going to know exactly what these points are. There's probably going to be some alliteration in there. it helps me remember when there's a cadence and a rhythm to it. Yeah.

And there's going to be illustration that is dotting this message that is beginning it and closing it like an incubator that helps to house the point that I'm trying to communicate. And that is just because that's the style I've watched my whole life. So I just assumed, you know, not that I've never struggled with trying to, you know, that feeling of insecurity you get that I need to do something a certain way in this kind of setting or in this kind of setting, but I've always just been like, well, they invited me. So this all I know how to, it's too exhausting to try to do it another person's way and feel other shoes. So this is all I know. This is the way that most feels natural to me. I'm going to communicate

it like this. And so for me, most of the time it has looked like if there, if there are too many words, and this is changing the older I get, but if there are too many words, it actually is more distracting to me than if I just make sure that the important point is there on the page, but then there is an asterisk, which I do still in pen, an asterisk besides certain words that lets me know where I'm going. It just helps it to feel more natural to me. This is after I've absorbed the thought so much that it is innate to me. Now, the older I get, in fact, it's funny you asking me this, because I have to speak three times on Saturday. And I'm preparing these messages all week long this week. And I have a lot of words on the page.

And I literally said to myself yesterday, Jackie, I kid you not. I think I'm going to be Jackie Hill Perry this weekend. I'm reading this right off this page. This is what I want to say. And honestly, the older I get, the more important it feels to me to be precise. The more important it feels to me to make sure I'm saying exactly what the scripture says and not taking a bunch of rabbit trails, not that you can't in the moment you should, when the spirit leads you to, but also because of the raggedy nature of social media,

that if I go off on a tangent that I didn't think about clearly beforehand and somebody takes this 30 second, 60 second clip. Yeah. And do what they want to do with it. And do what they want to do with it, which has happened to me before. Trash. So you know what? I feel like there's a responsibility to be as precise as possible.

So the older I get, I'm writing down more. And I think I feel the spirit of Jackie Hill Perry coming on my life. Well, I'm going to sit right there and be like, so anyway. let me tell you what this next paragraph says. That's good. And that is a thing, precision is a thing for me. Yeah.

It's, I want to be very, very clear. But I think beauty is also a thing for me. And so I'm, but I'm, I'm always wrestling with, do you just want to be perfect?

Yeah. Or do you also want to be free? Mm-hmm. You know, and so I think that's the tension is that I've also experienced God using me when I'm free. Yep.

That I'm afraid. Come on. into freedom, Jackie. I know. I'm afraid. But also, too, I think the rest of that I have is when I attempted to read off like, you know, a manuscript or whatever verbatim, like I found in those times the word didn't get in me as much if I consumed that word. That's good. And allow myself to preach from what I consume. Because I do think that when you, when you have that type of style where you don't use so much notes, you have to ingest a word in a way. That's right. That's right. I think. think kind of informs the way you, you know what I'm saying, informs the way you, you,

you know, but at the same time, it's like, you have to suffer precision, you know what I'm saying? So it's like, it's a balance. It's a balance. And trying to find that balance can be hard. Yeah, I'm going to say this, because I don't know, I don't talk to preachers a lot. What, one passage that challenges me is Stephen in Acts, because that sermon is so long and so thorough. He's going through the prophets. He's going through the law. He's, and then he just, he closes it up. It was like, y'all always kill the prophets. And he doing this, fin to get stoned. But he didn't have a manuscript. He didn't have bullet points. He just knew the scriptures. I also just think there's a sense in which, the more you have the scriptures in

you, when the time calls for, it's going to come out. The Holy Spirit brings back to your remembrance. That's the reason why I love preaching on the streets. And we love to watch you do it. Yes, we do. Because it's like, I don't be thinking about nothing. Like when I, with that clip with the Hebrew Israelites, it was just like, no, I'm going to explain that we're saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ alone. I'm going to break down Romans 7.

I don't care about how I sound. Yep. I don't care about if I stutter. All I care about is you hearing. Hear this. The proclamation of the word. And people was like, oh, that Hebrew Israelites was interrupting you. but y'all didn't see the five young men that was standing behind us.

Right. Listening. You know what I'm saying? They heard the gospel. You know what I'm saying? They heard the gospel defended, you know. And so that's what I care about. And so I think that sometimes we just can't care.

Yes. The word of God being proclaimed has to be. And what's the and? And anybody paying attention could see the spirit of Antichrist that was rising itself up against what it is that you were communicating. Can't tell you a story, my goodness. I wish you would. Look, we was having a conversation with some, I put this in my book, we was having a conversation with some Hebrew Israelites. And these two ladies and these two guys came and listened to this conversation.

The conversation was not combative at first. It was very respectful. Some Hebrew Israelite camps, they try to be respectful. But as we started to present more truth, it became disrespectful. They started to insults, you know, trying to like get us off of our, you know, and we just remain kind. we remained gentle. We did with first 5315 told us to do

you know, treated them with gentleness and respect. At the end of the conversation this lady, she said, I got to go. She said,

I don't go to church. She said, but I'm more inclined to listen to them because the way y'all talked to them was bad. Bat. Right?

And so she was just like, she was like, I'm going to listen to more of what they said. She's like, let me know what y'all preach. Grace and truth. Grace and truth.

And so that's just encourage me to know like if we give, the truth in a garbage bag and not on a dignifying platter, people didn't reject the truth. They reject the way you gave it to them. So like, give the truth of grace and people will receive. And so, yeah.

Mrs. Priscilla Shire has a movie coming out called The Forge. When is the release? Friday. This Friday, August the 23rd. Okay. And how long will it be in theaters do we know? That depends on who goes to the movies on August 23rd. Okay.

So we, I don't think y'all going to hear this by August 23rd, but we're praying in Jesus' name that. All the interviews Ms. Priscilla's and I did up until this point. Y'all don't watch them. Just go to the movies, take your cousins, take your nephew, take yourself, take your Bible if you need to next to the popcorn, all the things. You know, don't bring no sandwiches in there. Don't bring no wing stop. That buy at the thing.

Go to the thing and buy the chicken fingers at the thing. But I just saw this person on Instagram. I was like, that's brilliant. They had like a baby carrier and it was covered up with the blanket because, you know, you don't want the son to get on the baby. And then they got in there and opened that up. It was just to go containers of chicken wings and french fries. And they had a great meal in the theater. And I just was like, I would, but I'm not lying.

I would feel away, though, if I smell dressing. Like, I'm not supposed to smell that in here. Like, that don't match the smell that cinema is usually at. I used to sneak food in the movie there is all the time. You're heathen? I am eating. I got one more question. And I think we can end with this question.

I had set up a nice clothes, but go ahead. Oh, I'm sorry. I was just going to say. It was just nice. It was just like right there. One more question. Well, like in your ministry, like what has been your biggest burden in ministry? And what would you say to this generation concerning that burden?

Let's layer things are coming to my head. But the biggest burden I think is summed up in John, I think, chapter 8. Pilate looks at Jesus. This is like his fourth trial before he goes to the cross. Pilate looks at Jesus and says, what is truth? And then the next verse says, and then he turned away and went back to the people.

He asked, he stood and stared truth in the face, asked him the definition of truth and did not give him a chance to answer before he turned and looked at people for a response. That is my burden for this generation. Wow. There is a deconstruction of faith that is leaving people with no faith at all.

They have steered away from the truth of scripture, which is why I so appreciate y'all's ministry and your fidelity to the scriptures that, yes, ask your questions. Ask your questions, little brothers and sisters. Ressel, but do not steer away from the face of Jesus. He is the essence of the creator of truth. Anything that is being redefined away from what the creator has defined it to be already is false and it's a lie. So if you've got to come back here to find out about your sexuality, your gender, about marriage, about all the things that are being redefined and legislated, not just tolerated, but legislated. We are in such a state of chaos and confusion because everybody got their own standard of truth. Yes.

There has to be a solid basis for it. And I think the younger generation has steered away from looking Jesus in the face and saying, what is truth and then tarrying their long enough telling answers. Yeah, that's good. That's good. That's one of my major burdens. That's how we needed to end. No, that was all the goes.

Peace. Peace, bucko. Thank you, Ms. Priscilla. Bye y'all. With the Perrys is produced by the Perrys with support from Amanda Reed and Channing McBride, video recording and audio production by Matthew Baxter and Xavier Fairley, edited by the team at Tread Lively, artwork by hop and music by swoop.

Thank you for listening. Now go with God.