With The Perrys - Christian Endurance, Fashion, and People Pleasing (A Q&A Episode)

Episode Date: October 21, 2024

It’s been a minute since the Perrys have recorded a Q&A episode, but we’ve got one for you this week. Jackie and Preston start off deep, talking about enduring hard things as Christ followers, including experiencing true spiritual warfare. They discuss topics such as fashion and aesthetics, finding the right church, talking to your kids about other religions, and how to differentiate between kindness and people-pleasing.   Subscribe to the Perrys' newsletter: https://withtheperrys.myflodesk.com/zhfus4jx1s Join Preston's discipleship community for men: https://www.patreon.com/PrestonPerry/membership To support the work of the Perrys, donate via PayPal: https://paypal.me/withtheperrys Shop BOLD Apparel: boldapparel.shop Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

All righty, fun fact, everyone. Uh-oh, what you're fin to say? Preston Perry wants to divorce me. Oh, come, get out of here. Don't you? No, I don't. Yeah, you do. You're the most beautiful woman in the world.

That ain't, that ain't going to keep you committed. I love you. I love you. He told me this morning that he, he's like, I'm done with this. Why are you lying to? Why are you lying to the people? I'm over this. Get out of here.

I'll take our four kids and have a life without. you. I'll be a single dad. Why, you can go preach and write and do all the things without me. I'm going to start calling you a prophet liar. You don't want to divorce me? No, I love you. You know the devil wants us to divorce.

He does. He really does. Why do you think that is? Because he hates marriage. Why does he hate it? Because, I mean, all the things that we know is the pitch of the gospel. But I think that he hates marriage because he wants to affect future generations.

He wants to affect the way men see women in future generations. He wants to affect the way our son, husbands, his wife, and see his children. I mean, it just affects everything. Like my parents' divorce really has impacted me in so many different ways. Do you remember them divorce? Yeah

Yeah, my mom Like literally woke me up In the middle of the night And then I didn't see my dad For six years Oh, that's crazy Yeah That's traumatic

It is I remember I used to watch You know, like shows Not like seventh heaven Because they stayed together But like shows where like People would be talking about Their parents divorcing

And they would always be so sad And I remember being like I don't never see my daddy I don't know why y'all Until I got married And then I understood like, oh, like I can, the fracture in the relationship, I can see how that's really troubling for a child. Yeah, yeah, it is. It is, man. God created marriage for a reason. And, you know, it's the reason why

the enemy wants to destroy it because, you know, in marriage, I think we see God in ways that we wouldn't see him. We experienced God in ways that we wouldn't see him. So, you know, we experience this creation. when we experience healthy marriage in healthy ways. And I think that he wants to fragment, he wants to distort the way we see God, the way we see people by affecting marriage. Before we get to these questions,

because we are doing a Q&A today. We obviously just jumped straight into the deep end. But I think something that I've been wrestling with, and I'm becoming more content with, it's just the idea of like why everything I'd be so hard you know what I'm saying like why is why is everything warfare why is parenting and marriage and friendship and your mental health and your emotional stability and what you do like it be feeling like and I use that that that sentence structure on purpose it be feeling like Lord like why is everything like why can't just be easy

the answer is because we're not in heaven. We're not on New Jerusalem. It's going to be a fight to the finish. But it's a fight that's fixed. Yeah, yeah. Looking to Jesus. But I also have a little... Who endured the cross, despising the shame for the joy that was set before.

I also have a little theory too. Looking to Jesus. Okay. When you're done, I'm going to say... Because in Hebrews, it said first we have like, we got cloud of witnesses who went through a whole bunch of stuff. And then it says, now, therefore, looking to Jesus. So the cloud of witnesses, you can look at them, help them encourage you.

But at the end of the day, you got to look at him. If you look at him, then you'll keep going. You'll do it. You'll do all the stuff. Because it ain't like he didn't come down here and have to do the hard stuff too. He did the hardest thing. He died and took on sin that ain't even belong to him. And you complaining that you fighting sin, that's yours.

Yeah. Anyway, go ahead. No, I was just going to say. You need some water? No, no, I was swallowing. But I was going to say too. I do think that there's a great cost to doing faithful ministry. Yeah.

There's a great cause. You know what I'm saying? Like at the end of 1st Peter 4, Peter says, no, at the end of 1st, I think it's 1st Peter says that the righteous was scarcely making into heaven. And I used to hear that scripture always quoted wrong. Like people was like, you better watch, watch your behavior. You better, you know, you better watch out. You might not make it.

You might not make it. The righteous is scarcely. And it's like, no, but even if you research the word scarcely, it can mean, you know, you know, it could take on the context of might not. But it also takes on the context of the context of heart. The righteous will make it because the righteous are righteous. It says the righteous will scarcely be saved and the righteous are saved. Right. and God will keep his people into the day he comes,

but that where scarcely means hard. You know what I'm saying? Like, everybody who... You don't mean barely? It's given barely. When I hear scarcely, I hear that you barely made it in, Bucco. Yeah, but... By the skin of your chinny chin,

but it also takes on the context of like, like, like, they got in, but it wasn't easy. Mm-hmm. Right. And so, like, not even like, like, you know, the righteous almost didn't make it. It's just like, no. Like I think when my grandmother got to heaven,

you know what I'm saying? Who lived a faithful life, if God gave her the ability to look back at her life, she would have said, man, I remember in 1997 when my son was murdered, I thought I wasn't going to make it. I remember when my husband walked out on me, I thought I wasn't going to make it.

I remember when the whole church turned on me and they lied on me and persecuted me. And I thought I was, I thought I was done with you, God, because the way your people treated, I thought I wasn't going to make it. But I'm, you know, but I'm here because your hand was on me. I'm here because you kept me. And I think that's what it means to be in Christ. Like, you know what I'm saying?

And I believe that if she did not serve Jesus in the way that she served Jesus, she wouldn't, like, experience the persecution that she experienced. That's good. You can't hit the enemy and feel like the enemy ain't going to hit you back. Yeah, I was telling you in bed how I think there's two. I think there's a few temptations when it comes to difficulty in the Christian walk. One is to completely leave the Lord and say there is no Lord to become an atheist or an agnostic. Like that's the way you deal with the stuff is to leave. Then there's the other where you leave the Lord, but you kind of like change his laws.

Yeah. So it's like you think you're still in him. You still love him. But it's because you change what he demanded. You made the load on. your conscience lighter. Yeah. I think the third temptation is actually more compelling for many of us in ministry

our life, which is to just take your foot off the gas. So you're not going to say God don't exist. You're not going to change his law. You just not going to go as hard, right? So it's like, ah, if the podcast costs this much, I don't want to do it. Yeah. If this friendship is this difficult, I don't want no parts. If parenting this child is that I'm going numb out.

Like you just, you stop pressing forward because of how much it cost you. And I think that's, I think that's something that we have to, to be careful. Well, if you can remember, you know, this is so funny because we, we wasn't planning this yet. If you can remember, you know, that was my, you know, my, I did an appreciation post for you a couple of weeks ago. And that was a lot of, very nice. Yeah, that was a lot of my praise of you, you know, you, you, I think. that you have experienced a particular type of persecution because God has called you to call out things that a lot of people don't call out, you know? And I think, you know what I'm saying?

To see you, you know, move towards God in our marriage and the way that you've moved towards him is commendable. I mean, I'm saying, because I do think that, you know, we look at a lot of ministers and we say, man, what happened to them? Like, they, used to be solid. They used to be rocking. Like, like, like,

and now they just on some, some other stuff. Yeah, a little loose or whatever. And it's just like, man, I think people don't understand.

I think the average listener or the average viewer who just, who consuming Christian content but never really putting it out in the world, they don't even understand the level of spiritual warfare that that person probably went through.

And because he was trying to be, because they were trying to be faithful to give the gospel and faithful way to y'all, they experienced spiritual attacks that made them stray away from. You know what I'm saying? Like, if I got to serve the Lord and it means I got to deal with this, I'd rather just be on some safe stuff. Sure. And there's so many people who have strayed away from giving truth because they just don't want to experience the spiritual warfare. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And so like, I just gave you an appreciation post because it's like, man, like I've seen you run to Jesus

time and time again when the enemy used people to talk about you or turn it back on you and all that. I'm also seeing, and we're going to get to your questions, that everything is not necessarily warfare. Yeah. Some stuff is discipline. Yeah. I think the enemy is a part of trying to leverage your discomfort in the discipline.

But it's like the Lord also uses circumstances. to test us, to show us what's in our heart, to show us if we love him for real. And I feel like I'm in a particular season where I'm, I think every Christian is like this. The test is, do you believe the things that you say? Do you believe it? So when I say that I'm good, let me put you in a position to test if that's just, you just get excited about my goodness or if you actually really believe it. You know what I'm saying?

Like for Abraham to be in the position where the Lord is like, yeah, you got this son that I promise you're going to have, but I want you to kill him. Yeah. I want you to sacrifice. Do you believe that I'm a covenant keeper? Do you believe I'm a problem? And I think that's what the tests are challenging. And it's like the Lord is trying to take what we know and distill it down into our hearts in such a way where it's not just like us getting happy over a sentence or a doctrine or idea, but us actually experience. in the thing that we preach.

Yeah, that's actually encouraging. And that's something that I have to remind myself often. Because that's one of the greatest things about God is I think he would be not a morally good God. If he was out here just allowing the enemy to test us and his hand wasn't somewhere in it in some way, shape, of form. What do you mean? Because it's like in that, like, if God isn't sovereign over the evil attacks, you know, know that happened over us in a lot of ways that will make him not God. Yes.

Does that make sense? Yes. So if the enemy was allowed to touch us without God's permission. Absolutely, right? Right. We see like the like we see what happened to Job. This man, the Bible says he was the most faithful man in all of these, you know. And the devil approached God and said, you know, I'm seeking to and forth.

You know, seeking whom I can devour and all this. And he was like, have you like, God, like literally all. For Job. Have you tried my servant Job? It's like, day, God. Like, you know what I'm saying? And like, not that God is crazy, but you know, yeah. You know what I'm saying? And so like I do think that like understanding that we don't experience purposeless evil is should encourage us. You know what I'm saying? That God in some way, shape, or form, you know, is using like all things. When it says all things work out together for the good of those who love God and caught accordance with purpose, Even the enemy affecting us is included in all things.

Like God is using it. And so like it is that's just something about God's sovereignty that we probably wouldn't fully understand on this side of heaven. But at the same time, I do think it should like give the Christians some type of comfort to know the enemy in Alhage is doing what he wanted to do. And we play a part in how much power he has. And what I mean is all the enemy can do is tempt. Yeah. That's it. The Lord tests the devil tempts.

All they can do is tempt. But you have the decision to give into that temptation. Yeah. And like I was reading, you know, Jesus, you know, he was, it said that the spirit drove him in the wilderness to be tested. And he was tested all 40 of those days. Like it's a, he was in the wilderness being tested for 40 days. We look at the three temptations at the end. And I realized that was probably the climax of him wrestling with the devil for a long time.

Right. But the enemy could. That's actually a really good observation. Yeah. Like that being, we can't skip like being testing. And that means like, oh, you is, you was enduring. And I'm like, one of the things that's crazy is we be just dealing with little demons. Jesus had to fight the devil.

He had the big dog. It's hierarchies, principalities, powers. Right. the devil came to him. Right. You probably got like a three foot midget in your house. We got a minion and we can't handle it. Right.

You probably got a, you probably got a demon in your house the size of a sage, my three-year-old. He had the real devil. Here's the thing that encourages me. It was, I could just go in

because I've been, I've been thinking through that. Go ahead. No, I've been thinking through that text, how all of the enemy's temptations were to alleviate Christ suffering. You know what I'm saying? At the end of the 40 days,

it said he was hungry. us. The first temptation, turn this stone to bread. Leverage your supernatural ability to make things that are not something different than what they are. Leverage that to satisfy yourself. Why? Because your body is needy. And so how many temptations is he given us because our bodies are needy? Our physical bodies feel like they need more than what God has.

And that's why Jesus says, like, no, like man cannot live by bread alone, but by every word that comes out of the mouth of God. Meaning his satisfaction in the sustenance of God is the thing that helped him to not give in to the enemy's lives. So I bring all that back to say to us, it's like we just have to become more satisfied. Yeah. We have to become more full. Yeah. We have to become more godly. Yeah.

So that when the enemy tempts us, it's actually not tempting. Yeah. Yeah. That's so good. That's it. That's so good. And Jesus was the perfect model. Like the enemy literally appealed to every aspect.

Yes. The lust of the flesh. Jump off the thing. Yeah, the lust of the flesh. Like, you know, turn this stone into bread, the lust of the eye. Look at all the kingdoms or whatever. I'll give it to you. Like, you don't.

One more thing. One more thing. One more thing. Okay, go. You don't want me to say it? No. It's your world's great. I need to study this.

Because I think I'm a, because I did a sermon on this text a long time ago, and I think I'm going to do another one because I just feel like all of us are getting beat up. We need help. But. Luke says he showed him all the kingdoms of the world in a vision or a span of time, meaning that it was a visual, mental temptation. And you got to think about that. Like, it's not necessarily that the enemy was playing with his mind, but he was playing with his mind.

Yeah. And it's like, we have the same stuff. We have the same war of fighting stuff in our mind, fighting things that happen in our sleep, fighting our imagination, like those visual, mental kind of things. And I think we should be encouraged because, like, that's why it says we have a great high priest. Yes. Who empathizes, sympathizes with our weaknesses because he was tempted in all respects. Like, the more as you fight in your mind, you don't think Jesus get that.

Yeah. You don't think he understand. That makes me, this is encouraging me. You know why? Like, he gets it. You know, you know why? Well, one, you know, Hebrews 414 is one of my favorite passage. just, but I'm not even going to talk about that, but just even just meditating on what you just said.

Because I think a lot of times you can go through suffering and you can be like, man, God. Like, man, God, like, why are you allowing me to go through this? But, like, I think you said it on the podcast. I don't think that we meditate on the fact that God became man. Like, I don't think that we, when we think about God, we think about this distant God. We think about his deity. We think about his deity. The fact that God will become flesh and subject himself to that type of mental suffering is nuts.

I don't even have nothing deep to say. I really don't have nothing deep to say. That's it. But like if you just meditate on the fact that God allowed his mind to be played with so that he can empathize with your suffering. If that don't make you trust him. Yeah. Let me ask you this. If they don't make you trust him. Let me ask you this. What do you think Christ, how does Christ empathy help us endure?

Like what does that incentivize? I think, one, I think Christ's empathy gives us confidence that we can freely come to him without shame. So that's why the text says we have a great high priest who empathizes with our weakness. therefore come to the throne of grace with boldness that we might find grace and help in our time of need. That's good. We can find grace in our time of need because he knows what we're going through. So there's a limited grace at his throne. He didn't just die for you, but he became man to empathize for the fact that you're weak.

But at the same time, it says we can find help at his throne because he was sinless and perfect. And so he walked this path without sin. And so even when you sin, he knows. knows how to help. So there's help and grace. That's great. And so it's like, so, so I think it just gives us, it's really for us. It's, it's, it's saying, man, like, I don't like, I'd like, I'm saying, I'm saying, I'm saying I die for your shame. There's no need for you to live in it anymore. Like don't, like, you're like, you're a falling human being. You could not save yourself. You cannot do anything on your own. You know what I'm saying? You are extremely defenseless, right?

We talked about this. It's like people always trying to make themselves David in the David and Kalaya's story. No, you were the people who were afraid. You were Israel, Bucco. You were Israel who were afraid. You couldn't fight back. And somebody had to come and fight on your behalf.

And so God knows that we're weak. He knows that we're fragile. He knows that we can't defeat sin on our own. He knows that we have no, no contest against Satan. And so he came and did it for us. Jesus. He literally came and did it for us. I need my Bible.

there's so many scriptures I want to point. He's like, just come to me. Come like, you can't do it on your own. You're out here suffering because you won't come to my throne over and over again. Keep coming. I'm never going to say it's you again. I'm never going to say it. I think some of us, then we can get to the questions.

Okay. I think some of us, depending on what kind of church you've been in, we aren't praying the prayers that we have the freedom to pray. for example. I've been reading a lot of Psalms and I've been paying special attention to how often they pray for deliverance. And I think

because I've been in a world that is more practical and more pragmatic where it's like, yeah, he will deliver us through therapy. He will deliver us through community. He will, which is true. Yeah.

But it's like, what that's done is, is that I go to the therapy, I go to the community, I go to the stuff, and never actually ask for deliverance. Does that make sense? Yeah.

It's like I'm more on the like, yeah, I can't explain what I mean. No, no, I think what you're trying to say and correct me if I'm wrong. We have the right to say, God, take this thing from me. Take it. Yeah.

And if he decides not too cool, but it's like there are some fights, me and you had this conversation and you feel happy, there are some wars some walls, some strongholds, that therapy can't fix. That community, even, to a certain degree, can't fit. Like, God has to do it.

And so I've been having more freedom to say, you know what? Deliver me. If David said it, I'm going to say it. If a coroner said it, I'm going to say it. If Moses said it, I'm going to say it. Yeah, yeah, that's good. And God can't do it. He could take it away in the instance.

He did it with Israel? Yeah. They did. Like, deliver us. Okay. Here's about 10, 12 plagues. I do that. You know what I'm saying?

Here's the flood waters. All they had to do was walk through. Yeah. So. It's good. All right. So we this morning. That was the longest rant ever.

It was good, though. It's obviously on our heart that we are pressing through. I put on Instagram some questions. And I said, whatever questions y'all got, we're going to answer them. Okay. Go ahead, read them, Bucco. Let me start with. this. Since Jackie said you are dying first, referencing you, would she remarry? What they talk about is one of the

episodes we uploaded recently in our pre-pre-pre-preaching rant. I just shared that I have a strong hunch that I'll be a widow. That person will die first, primarily because statistically speaking men do, secondarily, because I feel like the Lord told me that I was going to live a long time, which means I'm going to suffer a whole lot. So I really do need to get this endurance thing downpact. And they're saying, would I remarry? Absolutely not. If you die, I am single till it's time to meet Christ. Because what am I doing this again for? For what? Yeah. That's not to say I despise about it. But it's like, why am I getting to know people and dating people? And And then especially if you 60, 70, what am I really doing that for?

Like if I'm 70, no, take me. I'm fine. And you don't actually see a lot of widows remarry. You always see widowers remarry. Yeah. Why do you think that is? They could be 82 and they're going to be married in six months. I think it's, I don't know.

I think, I think men, I think a lot of people, People might try to relate it to the whole sex thing, like men need sex. Even when those men older, they only want sex like that. Like, my uncle, he remarried and he remarried because, you know, he needed sex. I think a lot of men just need women. When they said it was not good for men to be alone. Like, they need help. They need help.

Okay. You know what I'm saying? Like a helper. Like, I think women don't understand how much of a blessing, not just your bodies, just your minds and the way you're wired for men, it's just different. You know what I'm saying? You know, and I don't know. Maybe I need to do a deep study of this, but maybe it's just the order of creation,

like how God created Adam first and was like, oh, you see everybody else running around here with a mate? You out here, buddy. You know what I'm saying? It's not good for you to be alone. And I think, you know, I think that's, you know, and I think the sex is a part of it too. But I think that we just be needing y'all, you know, in a lot of ways. That's sweet. That's what you're saying?

I don't need a mate. No, you're pretty self-sufficient. You just need Jesus. Yeah. honestly do. The question is, how did y'all agree on a church? I think that's a great, a great practical question. Like if it's time to either move churches or join the church,

how does a couple come to an agreement? Because I can't say, oh, I want to go to first Ordination Baptist, and you're like, well, I want to go to Alaska Episcopal on the Mount. Like, we can't go to two separate churches. So we have to come to an agreement. Yeah. I might seem very old school when it comes to this. But I do think that the husband should seek to know and understand the vision of the leadership.

Oh, of the church. Of the church. Okay. So what if you have two churches with gray leadership? What grade leadership? Yeah. What if both churches check off all the boxes? They both have great.

Kylie leadership. They both have a church government. They both have holiness and all the stuff. They both have the preaching of the words, solid doctrine. Yeah. How do you make the decision then? Yeah. I think that it's just really, I mean, I think that's a case-by-case situation,

but I think it really just comes down to practical nature. Like if both churches, you know, give you, you know, everything that you kind of looking for, you know, like which church is closest to your house, you know what church is closer to to the kid's school. which church would serve your children better. And then just pray about it. You know what I'm saying? Pray that the Lord would, you know, lead you to the right one.

And I'll say visit both. And, you know what I'm saying? And y'all pray together and the Lord will lead you all together. For sure. You know what I'm saying? Like, but I do think that, you know, if it checks off all the boxes, especially like knowing the vision of the leadership and you having confidence in the people who lead them because the church is always going to be a reflection of the

leadership. I think, you know, everything else is kind of like, up the discussion. I could use our life for an example to like put flesh on that. When we were moving to Atlanta, I think one of the things that was a part of the decision with the church is we were primarily looking at churches with people we knew. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Because it's like, oh, we know y'all. We know y'all's life. Let's check those churches out. Yeah. And I had a certain inclination towards one church and a certain hesitation towards another church, but I didn't necessarily want to put that on Preston. And so you ended up having a weekend with the pastors of both churches.

Like y'all had to go on some ministry thing. And I pray. And I said, Lord, that church that I'm hesitant about, I pray that Preston experiences something with that pastor that reveals that that is not the church for us. So it's like I wasn't controlling his decision, but I had my, I had my unctions, but I was taking it to the Lord. And you came back and he was like, yeah, so and so, like I picked this up and that was out. And I was like, yeah, I mean. And what's crazy is, yeah. Go ahead.

Yeah, we don't have to go there. Yeah, things hit the fan. Yeah. But then. God be looking out. With this new, we're part of a new body of believers in the last six months. and that decision took some time, but I was also confused. I didn't necessarily have clarity, but again, I think in marriage, I think when you see each other as

a team and as I'm a vessel of what God might be saying, and he is too. So if I'm confused, then I'm like low-key leaning into you for clarity. If you're confused, you're low-key leaning into me for clarity. And so, like, I was just kind of waiting on you to be clear. Because I was already like, hey, if that's the church, you're going to, I'm cool with it. I'm indifferent. And I told you that. Yeah.

I say you literally can make the decision. Yeah. Yeah. It was a good decision. All right. I don't like how unenthusiastic you are. Me? With the answers to these questions.

I'm sorry. It was a good decision. You'll love this one. Should you talk to your children about other religions and how they contradict Christianity? Oh, now I get my blood, blood boiling. Yeah. Hulk Hogan. Should I talk to my children about other religions?

And how they contradict Christianity? Hmm. Yeah, I think so. I still seem nationality. No, it was the who. Yeah, I definitely think you should, you know. I'm a really big fan of not having a reactionary faith. Okay.

A faith that responds when our children get out in the world and get hit with a different world of you. Now I be trying to like get them all. all the like apologetic books and you know what I'm saying is it's like no like how can you practically start teaching your children about different ideologies different worldviews and so when they get out there they're not really shocked by anything and I think for me I think you know I think it depends our children are still young you know our nine-year-old she's getting older but I think you know a lot of times people you know try to figure out like how can I preach this to my kids how can I how can I give this to my kids. But I honestly think it's less about preaching to them when they're young

than just giving them good questions and teaching them how to critically think on their own. And I think that I think that I think that if we do a better job of just cultivating thinkers, you know what I'm saying? Because a lot of times when people leave the nest or leave the Christian home and leave the Christian church and get rocked by different worldviews, it's not merely because these worldviews are so convincing it's because they haven't been taught how to think. That's good. You know what I'm saying?

And so like how can we develop good thinkers? You know what I'm saying? Like how can we teach our children to question? You know what I'm saying? And interrogate and ask the text questions and ask other people's questions. You know what I'm saying? I know so many people who walked up to me and was like,

yo, somebody just said this, yada, yada, yada. And it's like, but why though? Yeah, yeah. Like what was your follow-up question? you didn't have none. And so, like, I do think that we could just do a better job of teaching our children how to think. And I think one of the things that would keep somebody from doing that is fear. Yeah.

You feel like you will expose your children to a doctrine or a faith tradition that would tempt them to leave Christianity and to go there, right? I think one thing that can help you be confident is to be confident. If it is true, then at the end of the day, you know what I'm saying? you can stand on the fact that God is faithful, that God is a keeper, that God is a provider. That does not mean that eventually when your child is 14, 15, 16, they won't have questions or doubts. But I also think that it is healthy for a child to wrestle through doubts with their parent than to wrestle with doubts with the devil and, you know, these Negroes in college that don't love the Lord for real. Doesn't make sense what I'm saying?

Absolutely. When people's faith are rocked in college, they're actually not. in a safe place to wrestle with those doubts without like, like, I'm, I'm not making sense what I'm saying. No, it makes a lot of sense. I would rather than wrestle in my house. Yes. Than to wrestle when they go to the university.

Yeah. That's what I'm saying. And once they get through the wrestle, like we all do. We all got doubts. We're all wrestling. We often come out of it more assured of the truth than we were when we were denying the fact that we had doubts. And also, too, you have to just remember that if that is a fear that you don't want

your children to like yada yada yada you're almost trying to protect your children from the net didn't in what i'm i'm not trying to say they're inevitable like like they live in a world with so many different worldviews so many different religions yeah you ain't going to be able to protect them their whole life that's true like they're going to run across a Muslim at one point of their life or hebrew israelite or jehovah's witness or you know a foul percenter like they're going to run, they're going to run, you know, against somebody who's going to challenge their faith.

You know what I'm saying? And so it's like, how can you teach them now? Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Because I'm not, especially when I do apologetic conferences, I always have the mother.

It's always the mother. Sometimes it's the dad. But it's just like, my son and went off to college and became a Hebrew Israelite. You got any resources? And it's just like, man, like if you lived in a black community, your whole life.

And you only, you roll past the Hebrew's flights on the corner. every single day. And you saw them and you never talked to them about. You never, like, tried to figure out what was it about? You know what I'm saying? Like, teaching them how to critically think through other worldviews. I just think it's important and valuable.

One of my goals is that when our kids start probably middle school, summertime, I want them to read certain secular resources. And I want us to talk about it. So whatever it is like about sexuality, about culture, culture about other faith traditions. Like, I want you to be very aware of what is out there in the world. And I want us to talk through how you think about it. Why is this true?

Why isn't this true? All the things. Because I think that's a way to contend for faith in your home. And I think it would prepare our kids. So I think they're going to hate it, but they're going to appreciate it when they're in their 20s. That's good. That's real good. All right.

What's the other one? Let's see. fashion ethos. Oh. How do you guys build your outfits? That's a really good question. I love it. Look at all vanity rising up to the surface.

It's not vanity. It's beauty. We like beautiful things. Yeah. How do you build your outfit? Man, this shouldn't feel like a loaded question, what it is to me in a lot of ways. I think for me, I think fashion is a reflection of just, like you. It's a reflection of art. You know what I'm saying? And like I tell like I told this one dude,

I think we were on tour. He was just like, man, like I think he asked you something about my outfit that I had on and saw asking me about fashion. And I was like, man, like, and he was like, yeah, his church is very, very, I remember now, his church is very legalistic. And so every time he will come and put a lot of, you know, emphasis on his outfits, they would say, this is vanity and all that. And I'm like, no. Yeah. You got to wear a white shirt and some dickies. I don't know. Or not even Dickies. Walmart brand cargo pants.

I just think some Christians can't dress and be trying to like, you know, say people vain because they don't know to put the outfit together. I just, I think that's, you know, actually the case. But, you know, like, like I told him, I was like, man, in a lot of ways,

my fashion sense is no different than my poetry. It's like I wrote how I felt that day while I was feeling at that moment in that season. And so like, even when I, even when I, you know, put an outfit on, it's kind of a reflection of how I feel. Like, I feel like wearing this.

And I, you know what I'm saying? And so I think that governs your fashion. But then also, too, I think what governs your fashion, what governs my fashion, is just playing with different textures, playing with different tones, playing with different patterns, playing with stuff. And if it looks good, wear it. Yeah. Like, if it feels good, if it looks good. I can't explain.

I don't know if anybody, like any creatives. listening, but like, it's like, you know where you write a poem and it's like, this feels good. Yeah. Like, outfits are, you know, in the same way for me. It's like, this just feels good. Yeah, it scratches an itch in my brain. And by that, I mean, when I was designing our house, you know what I would do. I would go into an empty room and I would like imagine what it could look like.

So I thought about the colors. I thought about the tones. I thought about the organization of the space. Like, what is practical. Yeah. For sure. And I would walk in and walk out, walk in and walk out. Do you like a mad woman when you be doing that too?

Until it made sense in my mind. And when it made sense in my mind, I knew that I could move forward with that. And so the way I design my house is a lot like how I design what I put on my body. Yeah. Is does it make sense? How does it feel? How will it look? How will I be able to move in it?

I think when I lost weight, my fashion took a turn just because when I was like big, Because like when I when I gave birth to August, you was hippie. Well, man. When I left that hospital, I was 190. I'm 5'4 3. So 190 at 5'4 3 is pretty. But now you're Kirby. No, I'm saying.

But what it did was my confidence. You're curvy now. I didn't have confidence. So I didn't even dress according to what made me feel good. And I didn't feel like I didn't like how I looked. I really didn't. So it was just like I dressed like how I felt. Yeah.

So the more I lost. way, the more I felt like, oh, I can wear those pants or I could wear that shirt. And it was like a freedom. I also think my style that shifted where I'm a lot more streetwear oriented than I was. And that's out of freedom too. Because for a long time, I felt like I had to dress a certain kind of way for people to feel like I was safe or I was free or I was this. And it's just like, no, my husband's good with it. I'm good with it. Yeah. Yeah. What is? Yeah. And you fly and you beautiful. Thank you. Just the way you are. I love your style. I know you. It's one of my favorite things in the world.

What are some tips that people can do to become more fashionable, you think? One, you know, we got to put theology in here because people are like, well, you shouldn't care about there, the baby says. You should just put Christian conference t-shirts and call it a day, Bucco. It's like the Lord created beauty. Yes. So when he made the world in Genesis 1, what did he do? he took what was chaotic and put order to it.

That means he made it beautiful. He gave us trees. He gave us the sun. He gave us the stars. He gave us the moon. He gave us all the things. Then when you read, even things like Leviticus, the way he made the priest's garments,

the jewels he wanted to use, all the stuff. Then when you move forward to the building of the tabernacle, Tabernacle is beautiful, right? So you cannot argue that God doesn't love beauty or the organization of clothing. You cannot look at the Pacific Ocean and be like, oh, God, I don't care about how stuff look. So we don't idolize beauty.

We don't find our identity in beauty, but it is okay to find joy and delight in beauty. That's a good distinction. That's a good distinction, okay? I have to put the theology. Secondarily, I think, one, I think people need to know their body, okay? I knew you used to to say that. I think that's a big thing.

I think a lot of people don't know, they don't know how to accentuate or decensuate certain body types. Okay. So I remember, for example, I had a friend, she had a very, she was real top heavy. So she had real big breasts, but little hips. And it's like skinny jeans are not for you because the skinny jeans are accentuating your body type. Well, if you got like a stubby torso, you probably should wear like tall tees because they swallow you up. Or like I remember, I'm not going to say the name.

This one gospel artist, this Negro ain't got no neck. He has no neck and he keeps wearing these tall collar. and I said it's hiding the little neck you already got. You need V-nex. You don't need nothing. You can know what I'm saying? My man's be like a turtle. What could, like what would accentuate or decensurate when God gave me?

Wait a minute. Because we know this God's far. He kept hiding his neck breasted. I said, why does he keep? But I think in his mind, he think I'm elongating it. It's like, no, you elongated by like you might need to wear things that have a lower collar. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

ask some next stuff. Wear whatever makes you feel good. I will admit, I had a conversation with Kim one time. And she was like, yeah, skinny jeans. This is like two years ago. She said skinny jeans are like totally not a thing anymore. I was like, really?

She was like, yeah, no. And I was like, really? And so I started to look. And I was like, I had like a sense of rebellion against it. And I remember I was going urban outfitters. I said, they're not selling skinny jeans. I would go to Paxson. I said, they're not selling skinny jeans.

or I would go and where else I'd be shopping? Anthropology or free people. I'm like, I sell the skinny jeans. And I had to like, you might be a person that don't care. I want to be trendy. I'm sorry. So I was like, so that means I have to change my whole style. And I had to figure out what it looks like for you for me not to wear skinny jeans anymore.

You know what I'm saying? That was an adjustment because especially, again, these bigger pants, I think the fear is if I wear bigger pants, I will look bigger. Yeah. But that's not necessarily the case because you're also organizing your body. Like you have a top. You have a hat. You know what I'm saying? So you might wear a skinny shirt with wide leg pants.

Like that's the way you create some type of like. Yeah. What's crazy is I don't even know if you've noticed, but skinny jeans aren't all the way out. They just out with a particular demographic. Because like the rappers still wear skinny jeans. I don't like how they wear them. That's what I'm saying. And so like they have like this like this tacky hood.

It's the rock star people that can still pull it off. because they'll do like black skinny jeans with a black shirt and some Doc Martins. I actually think that's tight. Yeah. I think most people are not rocking them in ways that are. I still think that you go wet skinny jeans if you rock at a particular way. What about Chelsea boots? Throw them back in the closet.

Throw them back in the closet. Stop wearing them. I literally got angry. I'm so serious. Because Preston has so many pairs of Chelsea. You used to wear you some Chelsea, sir. But the people that still wearing them, Like, why are you doing that to your life?

So what do they wear? I do think you, I think you wear a loafer instead of Chelsea. But what would you wear if not Chelsea boots? A good loafer. Lovers are in. Yeah, loafers are in. You know what I'm saying? A good Doc Martin boot or a Doc Martin shoe.

You know what I'm saying? Because it's kind of like, man, the Chelsea boots, they just kind of went perfect with the skinny jeans. They did. But it's like, you know, like at the end of the day, like you went like, you like he got on tights with like ballerina shoes in 2020. How do you feel about people We're taking a long time on this Because we never get to talk about fashion I think that's what this is

How do you feel about men in particular Who are often in your comments Like not you got on animal print pants Like wow How do you feel about men criticizing your style? Oh man You set me up

I don't want to set you up To sound very rude But I will say I'm gonna say this I'm being very honest. I'm going to say this. Every single time, let's be clear. Where's the camera?

You're about to say what I'm about to say. Let me say it for you. Every single time I see somebody make a comment about Preston's style, I look at their profile picture and it all makes sense. Yes. Every single time. It's like, oh, you can't dress. Listen to me.

That's why you have something to say. Listen to me. Just say I love it, bro. Help me out. Listen to me. Because I realize many. criticize when they want to compliment. Women will actually say some,

Nassiz, like, take me to the story with you. I'm not claiming to be the... Send me your Pinterest board. I'm not claiming to be the most fashionable guy in the world. You know, I've had some... I've had some... Why can you do that? For sure. You know what I'm saying? Everybody had that, right? Yeah, we are in our moments.

People don't understand how much confidence they've given me. Like, I'm not even capping. Like, they've given me so much confidence. Okay. Because, like, and I'm not saying this to just merely to defend myself. none of the people that have came from my outfits. Not even one time that I think they can dress. I saw them.

I'm like, oh, yes. I'm doing something right. That's funny. You know what I'm saying? And so like, yeah, it's just every single time I go to the guy's page, you just, you're just real boring. You just put on clothes. That's all you did.

You just put on clothes. And praise God that we got clothes. Praise God that we have pants and shirts and underwear. in stores and malls, you know, because we actually have more clothes than what we need. Because I feel like I'd be having to reel it back in for the people like, oh my God, this is what? Like, praise God, we got close.

What's the next question? I just really enjoy, I just really enjoy organizing. You know one more thing I really love to do? What? I don't know if people realize. I am all, like, so even when you look at our home, our home has moments of, not necessarily monochromatic,

But like I'm into colors. So colors are a thing for me. So I might have a ton of muted colors and then a pop of something crazy. Right. So blue jeans, black shirt. This is very simple outfit. It's not crazy. But like a little pop up like, oh, that's interesting.

You know what I'm saying? Like even what you're doing right now. Black shirt, animal print, pop of red. Yeah. Right? What I don't like is if you had a red shirt on. Yeah. That would bother me.

Or like this generation, call it the sandwich generation. What they call the previous generation, the sandwich generation, if you got red shoes, you automatically got a red shirt. Yeah, that's, that's what like our mamas do. Yeah, did you know, you know, I got to find me some matches shoes. Now it's like, no, you know, you don't have to wear a match. The gen Ziz, I saw it on TikTok. I learned that on TikTok.

It's like, oh, you like a sandwich. You know what's saying? Like bread, meat, bread. Now, what's interesting, I'm trying to get people major keys. One thing I will do is if you see me match colors, that are monochromatic, they are different shades of the same color. Yeah.

So I might have a bright primary green with like a new, like an evergreen or a lime green. So it's like it's greens with different shades of greens, which I think is interesting, but with a pink shoe. Right.

It's like, oh, that's interesting. Because some people think, I'm not going to do a pink shoe. I'm going to do a muted shoe. I'm going to do black. I'm going to do white. No, like pop out and show. Yeah.

Pop out and show what? No, I love outfits like that because you got to understand like sometimes when you have a pop of color, especially if that pop of color is an item that you're wearing that you really, really like, you actually make it stand out more. Yes. If you don't make it match, you match. Yes. And so now it's kind of like even when you design a room, it's like some people design a room for that, like if you want somebody to come in your house and you want the eyes to look up. You know what I'm saying? You design it in a certain way for them to look up to focus on what you want to focus on the wrong.

Like, what's your centerpiece? A lot of times when we put outfits together, we don't actually know how to highlight centerpieces because we're trying to match so much. And it's just like, no, my shoes stand out for a reason. You don't even know like it's a whole psychology to it. You know what I'm saying? And so, yeah, we can talk about this all day. We'll have an episode on fashion and invite some of our fashionable friends or something. we don't have a lot of them but the shade is so much today it's like no sunshine we started all

about talking about summer okay here's a question we'll just have them edited down if I feel like it's too much but it's just like either you want me to be myself or you don't um do you feel you owe your SDA supporters an apology for airing a one-sided discussion no okay let's give context first. Okay. So the context was, you know, we had Dr. Eric Mason come on to talk about Colts and he

mentioned the SDA church. That started an uproar on social media and so I reached out to some SDA people, you know, SDA leaders or whatever to come on. We couldn't get nobody to come on but we wanted to give an explanation

of, you know, of the things that he said. And so we had an SDA Apologist named Brother Thunder to come on to explain like to further explain what we meant in the first episode because the first time when Pastor Eric Mason mentioned it, he wasn't

able to explain in detail. And so in our second of ten, we had we actually wanted, you know, one of the main you know, SDA people that we wanted to come on. I'm not even going to say his name. But he's been on social media

saying, you know, he wants to come on yada, yada, yada. He actually was going to have him on. But he did not want to come on at first because he didn't want to have a conversation with the people that was on. He wanted to have a conversation with just me. And so I said, no, okay, I'm going to bring them on and allow them to explain what they meant. And then I told them that I was going to have a third conversation, bring some SDA leaders on, and bring Dr. Eric Mason back on to have a third conversation. This is the reason why I don't owe anybody an apology.

One, when Dr. Eric Mason came on the show the first time, one, the conversation wasn't about SDA theology. He just briefly mentioned it and we didn't know it was going to take off the way it did. The second time, it was for clarity. And so I think that we have a right to give clarity to something that... To a position that we took on our platform. And so we don't owe anybody. We don't owe anybody our platform our second time. You know what I'm saying?

I think for any, like, and I've heard a lot of people say this. Like, you should have yada yada yada, yada. Mainly because it's one particular SDA leader who's been pushing this narrative. Oh, they're not giving us me, you know, I think because he really wants to come on. You know what I'm saying? But at the end of the day, it's like a lot of SDA people was like,

thank you for actually like clarifying what you mean. I'm going to actually research the stuff that was, that was given and study myself yada yada. So a lot of people were actually thankful. And then the last thing I'll say is, you know, there was a time, a time frame. It was a particular type of timeframe from the first and second conversation because, one, we do things on our time over here.

And I don't mean this, I don't mean to sound rude. But, you know, like we're going to have the third conversation. when we feel like having it. You know what I'm saying? Yes. And so I don't mean to sound rule. It's just like just because you feel away about it doesn't mean I have to have the third conversation on your timing. Because I didn't have the first conversation on your timing and I didn't have the second conversation on your time.

But I did say that we're going to have the third conversation and it will happen. When we get a person that we feel like will be a good person to kind of interview yada, yada, yada. And lastly, what I'll say is only a position was explained. Nobody's character was attacked. Nobody's leaders were attacked particularly. And you live in a world where people are going to have different views of theology. And it's really about, it's really not nothing about, you know, like it's no ill will on the SDA church per se. It's about how can we figure out what God wants, what God represents, what God represents.

if this theology aligns with the historical text. And I think that we all have a moral responsibility to uphold the word of God. And I think nobody should take it personal. You know what I'm saying? One of the things that I've told a couple of people, if somebody came and said that my theology was off, I wouldn't be upset.

You know what I'm saying? As a matter of fact, I get people every week saying that I'm a part of the white man's religion. I'm a part of a coat You know I'm this, I'm that One of the things that you'll never see me doing Is being upset about it

Because I know I'm not You know what I'm saying And so at the end of the day It's unrealistic for my views Never to be challenged And so when you get defensive It just kind of It kind of enforces what was said in the first place

And so you know But I say that to say this a third conversation will happen. Don't mean to be rude. I know a lot of people were offended. It wasn't done out of ill will or malicious intent. It really wasn't. There's just some things that Dr. Eric Mason, Brother Thunder,

and even myself had some questions about what LNG White taught but still like in official SDA documentation on their website in their in their statements and stuff. even to this day that we question. I think the questions was legitimate. And we have the conversation soon when we pray about who we should have on. Kindly differentiate for people between being a kind Christian and being a people pleaser. I will say, we've kind of talked about this a little bit in previous seasons where I say how my kind of kindness doesn't often come across.

as kindness because I think people think that kind and nice are the same thing. Nice is I've smiled. My tone is a particular way. I might have said yes to a request that you've made. I might have shown up to support your baby shower and brought you, you know, size two diapers to make sure that you have enough for the next seven weeks. I might have like, you know, listen to you intently and stare at. in your eyes.

Like, that can be nice and still not kind. Yeah. Because kindness, one, is a fruit of the spirit. Yeah. So kindness is something that you cannot produce in the flesh. Yeah. Kindness is something that the Lord has to do through you. Because kindness is a benevolence towards someone at the sacrifice of your own needs

and desires. Yeah. That's kindness. The Lord is like the Lord's kindness leads us to repentance. the Lord reigns on the just and the unjust. That's kindness. And so I think the big question in discerning between am I being kind or am I being a people pleaser is when I do these acts of service, who am I doing it for?

Yeah. So if you are a people pleaser, then that means I'm doing nice stuff so that you'll accept me so that I'll look a certain kind of way. Like I think Ananias and Safari, that that wasn't. that looked kind. The Holy Spirit had to reveal that it was actually not demonic, but evil, right? Like, oh, look at them. They're giving all this stuff away to the church.

And it's the Holy Spirit. It's like, no, like they lie. Like, they actually just wanted to look a certain kind of way and not be a certain kind of way. So that's people pleasing. Kindness is, I'm doing this as unto the Lord and for your sake. Yeah. Like, you can't, when you do that, you can't people please because now it's like,

I got to cry out and pray it, ask for repentance. and help. Like, you got to go through so much internal work to make it worship that it actually eliminates people pleasing. That's good. I mean, you said it all. I don't think I need to add to that. You, like, if you're trying to just, like, chase out the appearance of kindness and not the

reality of it, you're probably a people please. Yeah. And so. That's great. That was a good summary. Yeah. Because people pleasing is wrapped up in fear. Yeah.

It's, I'm afraid of rejection. I'm afraid of all the stuff. So it does mean that if you, if you start to choose kindness, over people pleasing, aka niceness, then you might have a level of suffering attached to it. Yeah. Because not every, like some, if some people have been used to you,

doing all the things for their sake and not for God's sake, then when you finally make the decision to stop being a people pleaser and to just be kind, they will have to adjust to that new you. You know one way you can distinguish if you're being kind or people pleaser is if you dedicate truly praying, for people.

Because, like, for me, I started to do stuff for people when I actually started to pray for them. Like, God started to lay stuff on my heart to do for people. It was God. It was like, I don't even think I would be doing this for you if I didn't pray for you.

Yeah, yeah. And God, like, God literally led me to do it. Like last week, I called a friend to tell a friend something And it's not because I'm trying to like, it wasn't for no praise. It wasn't to make him like me. It was because I felt like I had been praying for this particular friend. And I gave this particular friend like a certain word. And he cried.

You know what I'm saying? And that was the Lord. That was the Lord's kindness working through me because I pray for that person. Because real kindness, I kind of hinted at this, is costly. Yeah. It really is costly. Yeah. Like forgiveness is kindness.

Yes. That's costly, right? Like your pastor. getting up every week and developing a sermon with all of his heart, mind, soul, and strength. That's kindness, hopefully. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's a costly type of thing. So I feel like we have talked about a lot.

I know this episode is going along. We got to be about hour and 10. That's what is given. But here we are. Yeah. If you're a passive, being kind with some sermons, but he got on skinny jeans. He's still, he's still been able of me. He can wear skinny jeans.

He can, you wear wear it. If he like a hipster. Shut up. You get wear, I thought you meant hipster, like hippie. Oh my gosh. But not like hippie,

like, you know, do ass it. I mean, like hippie, like a lot of meat around the hips. Bye y'all. Bye.

With the Perrys is produced by the Perrys with support from Amanda Reed and Channing McBride, video recording and audio production by Matthew Baxter

and Xavier Fairly. Edited by the team at Tread lively, artwork by Hop and music by Swoop. Thank you for listening. Now go with God.