With The Perrys - Dating Discipleship 101 with Melody and CD Fabien

Episode Date: November 3, 2025

Melody and C.D. Fabien made headlines for waiting to kiss until marriage. Now more than a decade later, they're doing "dating discipleship" work with couples who feel confused about the in between, wanting to date intentionally before getting engaged.  In this conversation with the Perrys, the Fabiens discuss what it means to date with godly wisdom, lead with integrity, and pursue purity that lasts beyond the wedding day. Melody and C.D. say that obedience is inconvenient but it's always worth it. They make a case for why living together before marriage is actually spoken against in the Bible, and they offer encouragement around boundaries, conviction, repentance and community.  This is just part one of the conversation. Listen in and then come back next week to hear the rest.  Scripture references: Ephesians 5:25 Matthew 5:30 James 5:16 Romans 6 2 Timothy 2:20-21 Connect with the Fabiens:https://www.instagram.com/hangingwiththefabiens/https://www.instagram.com/cdfabien/https://www.instagram.com/melodyfabien/ Get Dating & Marriage Coaching with the Fabienshttps://cdandmelody.com Subscribe to the Perrys' newsletter: https://withtheperrys.myflodesk.com/zhfus4jx1s Join Preston's discipleship community for men: https://www.patreon.com/PrestonPerry/membership To support the work of the Perrys, donate via PayPal: https://paypal.me/withtheperrys Shop BOLD Apparel: boldapparel.shop Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, Saints and names, how are you? What's good with y'all? Yeah, I don't want to introduce it the same way by saying, you know, you might be brushing your teeth, you might be taking your kids to school, you might be running on a treadmill. There's a variety of activities you guys tend to do. I feel like in different seasons people will be doing different things. I feel like people be like jogging and doing certain stuff in the summertime. But I feel like this video is released like in the springtime. it might be different.

Yeah, summer is usually people aren't listening as much anyway because you're vacationing. You know, you're in the Maldives or something. But now it's like y'all are grocery shopping. Yeah, or if it's school days, it's like you driving your kids to school with stink breath. Because people do not be brushing their teeth. We have to stop talking about people's teeth. They just don't. We just have to stop talking about it.

What about me? I don't brush my teeth when I take my kids to school. Oh I didn't know he would be opening up with that type of Confession I'm gonna do it

I'm gonna do when I get back It's like I'm not even getting out the car It's just Curse up drop off Why do I need to brush my teeth for that We want to welcome the Fabians To the podcast You might be familiar with

Melody Fabian And Claude Daniel What's up? CD Couch confessions I'm not the only one Who'd Try the kids as cool as stink breath.

I just, I refuse to believe that. The car just fuming. Just, man, just out there's smelling like yesterday. Oh, no. So we're here with the Fabians to talk about what you guys have coined in what I believe is a necessary category, which is dating discipleship. Yes. Why is that the term that you are using in this new season?

Yeah. I feel like, because we do coaching. We do online coaching and a lot of the couples that we've been talking to who are like, we're not engaged, but we're dating, but we like don't know what to do. And I was like, so you need like dating discipleship. And they're like, yes. And so every time we start to say it, they're like, yeah, that's it. I was like, okay, that's what we're doing.

We're teaching on like how to date, how to pursue marriage in a godly way because we don't have a lot of examples about that. And there's just been such a shift of people just not knowing what to do, like literally not knowing what to do. Why do you think, and I'm going to address y'all in the sec, because y'all probably like, why did they not talk about, you know, propitiation or something? Why do you think people don't know? Well, I feel like culturally, like we had a season where there was a whole purity movement.

We were in it. We learned about purity. There was a lot of stuff about dating and waiting. And how to date right. And courtship. Courtship. That's a buzzword. Yes.

And then there was this shift that was like, purity culture ruined my life. And I would be like, what? I don't know. Like that wasn't my story. People were really upset about purity culture for a while. A lot of people. Yeah. But maybe we didn't get those type of teachings that they got or something.

Yeah. Because we chose to wait. We chose to save sex for marriage. We saved our first kiss for our wedding day. Like those are things about. Can you briefly just talk about that? Because, I mean, people might not know how they went all over the world. Like that testimony.

Yeah. Yeah, it's pretty cool. 08 before social media and all that. I think the short version is I met my beautiful bride in Uganda, Africa on a mission trip. And we were doing some ministry. And I come to find out on that trip that she's a 26-year-old Latina from Chicago. From the hood. And the hood.

And she was still a virgin. And I thought they were extinct. And this was a unicorn that I was looking at. And she just caught my eye. And my story briefly was that after a lot of college craziness, fraternity and all that stuff, had a major encounter with God in my dorm room and just surrendered and started over. So fast forward, a lot of beautiful things happened. But by this trip, she's into sixth year.

of her seventh year vow, seven year vow. And I was six years, you know, celibate. And so we got back to the States, and I pursued her and moved up to Chicago to marry her. And then that whole time, well, I saw the end of her commitment. And then when I moved up, I said, I had made a commitment to the Lord, too, that I was going to start all over,

and I wasn't going to kiss again until I got married. And she thought I was tripping now. Yes. And I wanted to kiss at least during engagement. That was my desire. And he was like, no, I'm not kissing you to the wedding. Now, the difference here is like we were led by God to do these things in our personal walks. Right.

These are not things that we teach as universal or, you know, the way to do it. And I think maybe what happened with the purity culture where, you know, there were these like binary presentations like you're pure or your impure, you know, your good. or you're bad, you know, like you saved yourself or now there's it. Or you didn't, you know. And obviously, I think we like embody a story of someone who waited and someone who didn't wait. But, you know, this was a story of preservation. Like God really kept her throughout all those years in that manner. And God transformed me.

I embody a story of transformation. Redemption. And redemption. Yeah. So when we got married, the whole blow up about. not having yet our first kiss until that day. Crazy. Like that was my end of the standard that the Lord held me to.

So you would think it would come from the one who hadn't even, you know, had sex yet, but it actually came from the one who had to start all over. So it made the news worldwide. We got calls from Dr. Phil and CNN and Fox News and bloggers. Because it was, you know, podcast and stuff wasn't real popular back then yet. We were viral before viral was viral. We were viral on YouTube. And it wasn't even bigville in blogs.

Wow, that's amazing. 19, 2008. I just want to say when, you know, when Melody first started walking with Jackie, mentor on her years ago, that's when I met you. This is years before we got married. We went married for 11 years. And the first conversation I had with you, you didn't have all the gray. It was kind of like.

I look like you. What's crazy is I realize when we met, I'm the age I am, I think is like, around the time we met. You know what I'm saying? Because we met, I think you were like 34. Yes, I think so. But I was like 22. Yeah, I just remember the first time I met UCD.

This had to be, what, 14 years ago, something like that? The first conversation you had with me was when I was dating Jackie. Yes. And you just asked me a series of questions that made me realize I actually don't know what I'm doing. I just remember like, you know, like okay maybe I don't know what else because I thought I knew what I was doing you know what I was doing so you guys have been walking in wisdom for a very long time yeah this ain't this ain't this ain't you're all being doing dating discipleship true a long time because if you ever heard me share dang near anything about marriage womanhood those relational dynamics I learned it through melody because melody was the person when I sat down with you about

Preston and him pursuing me, you was like, don't call that man your husband. Don't imagine him as your husband until he proposes. He ain't your husband until he shares the intention of becoming one. And that's so simple. But it's like you were reigning in the female and I think male or human tendency to just move too fast in your mind and in your heart before like reality has actually dictated how you should think. Yes. I think the first thing that I learned from you, CD, is like not saying that men don't have emotions when it comes to just relational issues, but to just have integrity and to

take true accountability and how much that can really save and preserve your family if you are the primary one who's kind of loving sacrificially, you know? And so I was just really, really challenged by you. I'm like, every time I see this dude, he asks challenges for me. They're very soft. But it was done in very gentle ways, but it was challenging. It's not as challenging. You challenged me now, and I'm more spiritually matured.

Back then, I was like, I'm for the CCD today. Got to prepare myself. Well, you guys mentioned a couple of things. I think what we want to establish, if I'm speaking to men, is you gave the word intentional. And that was something that was taught to me. And that was something that I was intentional towards melody. And what's good about intentionality is that you have to present forth your intentions,

your purposes, your reasonings. And I think that's something that God wants men to do as part of our leadership. We talk a lot about servant leadership, and we've been returning back to this part of Jesus' walk that was very service-based. He came as a servant. He laid his life down. He surrendered. He sacrificed his life.

I think we need to renew the aspect of the leadership part, though. Come on. Because leadership means you go forward. Leadership means that you initiate. Leadership means that you kind of cultivate. And so intentionality is part of that leadership where it was a good word for Meli to share with you, Jackie, like, don't entertain the ideas of, you know, calling him your husband.

Back in the day, he used to call it Bay, Hus-Bay, and all that. Like, don't entertain that just yet until he's initiated. And that's something that I had shared with you, like, how have you presented your intentions? Because you're right, we don't have a lot of people telling us how to do this thing. So we just kind of feel it out. We kind of go with the flow. But what I like to challenge men to do is if you present your intentions and you have an understanding of where you're going, why are you going there, and you present it as such.

You know, Melody and I, when we got back to the States, we were just friends. We were barely acquaintances. From the Africa trip? From the Africa trip. Yeah, he lived in Arizona and I was in Chicago. And that's a whole fun story of even how the Lord showed her to me. But I began to pursue her intentionally. And so here's this guy calling all the way from Arizona, a lady in Chicago.

And I knew in my head, she's probably wondering why does dude from Arizona calling. Right. And he said it. He said, hey, listen, I know you shared your story and that you have one year left of your seven-year commitment. And what that's about was at 20. I was at Moody Bible Institute. I was dating this guy. The Lord told me to break up with him.

I was at a place of like, I'm willing to obey you, Lord. What do you want? He said, I want you to be single for seven years. I was like, let me pray again. That's the devil. Let's pray again. But he was like, I want you to be single for seven years. So I'm single for seven years, which is another long story.

But on that year, one year left, he said, I know you have one year left of your commitment. And what you're doing for God is so beautiful. He's the first guy that ever said that. Other guys are like, can you cut it? Like, can you cut this value? Which is crazy. Yeah, he was like, what you're doing for God is so beautiful. You need to finish.

I want you to finish. but I just wanted to share my intentions with you. And I'm like, my father, my father would say, you're going to have a man that's going to share his intentions. I'm like, where? Where are these men, dad, they all running out? Like, I'm 27. You know, when is it going to happen?

And so when he said the word, I want to share my intentions with you, I see a future with you. I would love to get to know you. I know you have one year left. I am willing to wait for you. And I would love to get to know you as a friend. and in this year see if this is something we both want. Because I really feel like you and I would be a great team.

And when he said that, that was like a code word because I had a journal that I was praying specifically for my future husband. And I had said, God, I pray me and my husband be a team. And so when he said that, I'm like, what the heck? And I tell this to women too. Like Mary, when she would hear things, Mary and Joseph, she would hide things in her heart. Right? The Bible says she hit things in her heart.

And so when he said that, the Lord was like, hide that in your heart. That's not to share. Because I feel like sometimes as women, we share too much. And we're like, oh, my God, I have a journal for my future husband, and it says team. And he just like, you know, like, don't, you know, shut it up, right? And so I was like, oh, team, that's interesting, you know? And I hit it in my heart. And that's what kept happening as we were getting to know each other.

He would say stuff that I prayed about. he would say stuff that only God knew. And I was like, to me, those were confirmations because I came from a divorce home. He came from a divorce home. And I made a commitment like, God, when we get married, that's it. This is going to be it. I think what's helpful and necessary to say is that even I shared y'all's conversation with Megan to somebody. I don't know who I was talking to.

And I was like, I think y'all tend to hear Melody and C.D.'s process of dating and all the things, and you see them now. I was like, but they were in their 20s. Yes. Right? It was rough. But y'all, but I'm saying, y'all were being led by the spirit in your 20s. That's right. You were wise in your 20s.

You were being intentional with her in your 20s. And so that's to say that however old you are, if you're 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, you're not excused from walking. wisdom just because you're young. That's right. Can I ask a question with that? Who taught you how to be a leader? Where did you get that from? That's exactly.

We're in the spirit. Listen, thank you for highlighting that we were in the 20s. And thank you for pointing out. I once did have no gray hair. I was handsome, you know. You still handsome. Thank you, honey. I appreciate it.

You're more beautiful. I'm just a reflection. I'm just kidding. Song of Solomon. We're just trying to mess around. but it's true. I still think you're very beautiful. I have a lot of just words,

boom, boom, just words. Like you mentioned initiative, right? Initiation. Intention. Thank you. Intention. I mentioned initiate, right? Integrity, you said.

Here's the word submission. It's a hard word, but it means to come up under the work, right? Sub-under-mission work. I learned this wisdom because I had submitted to leaders and elders in my life, and they spoke these truths into me. When I first got saved, there was a young man in our congregation,

who was an armor bearer, this whole different service system, to our pastor, and I recognized him, and I was praying one day, and the Holy Spirit said to me, I need you to submit to that gentleman right there. So I went to him, and I told him my prayers and my process, And I shared that with him. And he came back and he said, okay, I'm going to take this seriously. So I said, all right.

So this man gave me a curfew. He knew my college lifestyle. He knew I was coming out from. You know, one day I had told him, I said, man, I feel like I can't find any nice women around in my circle. And he told me something kind of hard, like, you know, the little challenges. He said, well, you attract who you are. And so if you acting like a dog, what are you going on track? Plea.

I said, fleas? He said, other dogs. And I was like, okay, yeah, yeah. But he would just give me these, like, challenges to my character. He had me on an 11 o'clock curfew. I had to call him, text him, let him know if I was running late. We would have chats about how my day was, how I was doing with my thought life and with my feelings and so forth and so on, Minister Maurice Nelson.

And so that was the very first man that I ever walked in accountability with. And that word submission, many of us in our culture, we don't want to be accountable. Men just like just the same way that we struggle with that word, like women struggle with that word to their husbands. Men struggle with that word to their ministers, to their pastors, to their older brothers in the faith. It is not easy because their way, watch this. he's not perfect. He wasn't perfect. There were times in which he came down kind of hard on me about little things that I was just like, bro. But the Holy Spirit kept saying, just submit. Because submitting to the process is staying up under the work. Ain't nobody perfect. Ain't no

church perfect. Ain't no pastor perfect. Your parents aren't perfect. So submission is also a process of humility. And so he was the first person I ever saw who married his wife. wife and they didn't kiss. I didn't come up with that. I didn't make that up. But his wedding was so powerful. We were in tears. And the Holy Spirit said, you're going to do the same thing. Wow. So, yes, by God's grace, wisdom in the 20s, but wisdom acquired, wisdom received, wisdom submitted to. That's great. I have a quick follow-up question with that. That is very, very beautiful. You know, and I think, you know, back then, even when you was being disciple by, man, even when you first started walking with me, Brian Dyn, Chicago, all y'all cats start walking

with me. It was just a different time where men, like a lot of men reach out to me, and there's so many different voices with the age of social media. A lot of men don't even have that communal aspect, like the communities are just changed because it's just, it's so convoluted with so many different. type of voices. What would you say to the man who was struggling with trying to figure out what type of man to follow when there's so many different ideologies out there about manhood? Like what, like what should they be looking for? Yeah, that's good. When you have the red pill

community out here, the blue pill community out here, the past four brothers out here talking about and they look strong. They look like strong men. Like how would you encourage men to say this is type of man you should follow? Yeah. So a couple more words. Providence and provision. I don't, I want to make it normal that, number one, we hear the voice of God. I think in our Christian communities, when we introduce someone who say they hear the voice of God, they're weird, they're strange. But, you know, in Acts, it says that the Holy Spirit has poured out his spirit, I mean,

God is poured out his Holy Spirit on all flesh. so that we can all prophesy, right? Young men seeing visions, old men, dreaming dreams, whatever capacity is coming from you. So when Providence leads you, I had said that the Holy Spirit directing me to this person. Now, provision, he was already in my community. I think we go looking for the best person to mentor us.

Like we're the center of the world. What I said earlier, like, ain't nobody perfect. And I love how you mentioned Brian Dye, me, others, like in your world, like none of us are perfect. You probably glean different things from individuals, but I know that in your community, you walk most closely with Brian Dye. I had walked most closely with Maurice. And then as community shifted, there was another man that I had walked most closely with Tyrone Williams, Pastor Tyrone Williams. Not perfect people, but beautiful people. And so provision was such that in.

my community, there were people that I could walk with. And as I'm praying and I'm hearing God guide me and direct me, like I said, I didn't want to always submit, but the Holy Spirit would convict. And as it pertains to like social media, now I am a little old school in this. I appreciate social media. There are individuals that I like to listen to and receive from. But I think you got to stay in community. With people, real people. These people can't challenge the innermost areas of your heart that are not seen except through community. Community sharpens, community humbles, community equips. And so if you're not in a Christian church community, which ain't going to be perfect, I think like you can't.

We were in COVID. We watched church on TV. Go back to church. Yeah. Yeah. It's good. Me and Melody have been conversing around dating discipleship probably since the top of the year a little bit because we brought the the schedules were conflicted. We tried to add them a long time ago.

But we were just talking about how it seems like people legitimately don't know what they're doing. And most of y'all have engaged with the conversation that we had with Megan and Ebenezer a few weeks back. And that would help to bring to the surface some of the conversation among peers. but we wanted this one to be a conversation among sages. And so one of the things that we were talking about is that there's a distinction now where a lot of people are making decisions, not purely out of rebellion, but ignorance. For example, some people are living with their boyfriends or girlfriends. Not because they want to be rebellious.

They just don't really have a concept of wisdom in this way. Can you speak to some of the areas? that you have seen in dating relationships in this generation that you think need to be. Ooh. You're in their business. Corrected. There's so many things. Like, from even, I want to bring this up because it kept coming to my spirit, the sugar daddy thing.

Like, girls dating dudes with money just for their money to go out to eat. Yes. It's the way I be so. befuddled. Like, oh, that exists. And they're like, I meet some of his needs. He meets mine. Some are not sexual.

But it's this like, he needed company. I need money. You know, that is not biblical. I literally spoke at a conference and the Lord kept saying, talk about sugar daddy. I'm like, why? Do you want me to talk about sugar daddy? I bring it up.

I said sugar daddies will give you cavities. And you need to repent, okay, you need to repent if you are doing that. because there's legit girls with needs and they're looking for men for provision. And these two girls came up to me. And they said, thank you for talking about that. Now I got to text Ernest back. They tell him, not Ernest. I'm going to repent, Ernest.

You're a lot of girls. I really miss his sandals. You know the men, the old man, he'd be wearing sandals with a little cracks in it. So, okay. There's that. There's just, just when Citi pursued me, he got his own apartment. He didn't live with me. People are living together.

That is not wise. People are sleeping in the same bed talking about we don't do nothing, though. Tell us why that's not wise. Because he. Because people will argue it's not in scripture. And people will say, well, we're in, we're both in certain financial situations. And so we're just trying to steward our. finances accordingly. Like he sleep

in one room, I sleep in another room. Even if we've gone vacation, you know, he got a different hotel, I got a different hotel. Why is that like a... I don't buy it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I think we need to really talk about this. Let's dig in a little

bit. So, we're going to do two parts of this, so we have time. Okay, okay. Do you have something to say before I jump in on that? Actually, real quick, that thing about Sugar Daddy's to give you cavities. Yeah. I think that's powerful because, you know, there's a, there's an idiom out there about, like,

wisdom and the wisdom tooth. And, and you'd say it's just not wise. We're going to break down that why, but like a sugar daddy bringing you cavities in your wisdom tooth and next thing you know, you lost your wisdom. Oh. And so, come on. And then you start losing taste. Hey, hang.

And you know, too. No. Okay. There's so much. Okay. So God designed marriage. He had a purpose, right? He designed it. Ephesians 5. We see Christ and the church. There's a design. The enemy comes against the design. When Christ came for his bride, he says he wants to find her ready, pure and spotless. So there's this, you have to understand like, no, the Lord wants me to be pure and spotless. The white dress represents purity, righteousness of the saint. Set apart.

Everything in a wedding, there's something very symbolic. Jesus leaves to prepare a place for her. He's coming back for a bride who's ready. She's not like, oh, let me get ready. I've been sleeping with everybody, but I'm ready now. No, she's been waiting for him, keeping her mind, her heart, her dress for this man. So I think we just kind of got to get the vision back of what is it all about again? is covenant. It's not contract. It's a covenant. And so covenant is, I am loyal to you and you alone. I love you

husband. You love me. The wife only alone. It's purity. So it's purity onto the Lord first. And then it's purity onto one another. So I was faithful to my husband before I even met him. And so when he came, he got his own apartment. We, we didn't have. a lot of money, right? We have counseled couples. They're like, we're living together. Yeah. When we share the vision, we share the truth of the word, he's like, I'm going to

live with my friend until I get in my own apartment. Obedience is inconvenient. Say it again. Say it one more time. Obedience is inconvenient. And my husband, we were talking about there's grief and obedience. It hurts. It's painful.

When God told me to break up with that dude and be single for seven years, I cried. I would be crying sometimes in my room on a Saturday. day with my Bible. Like, I feel lame, Lord. And he said, you're not lame. You're spending time with me. I'm preparing you. And so when we met, we had to walk with integrity.

Integrity, what does that look like? I lived with my mom. We're in the basement watching a movie. My mom says, I'm going to do groceries. There's nobody in the house. Time to go. I said, we got to go. Pause the movie.

She goes, you know you're 28. You could do whatever you want. Y'all are adults. I don't know why. y'all so weird. She said that. I love her, but she was not saved at the time. Yeah, that's tempted, Mama. And I said, we're leaving. Why? People say, why? You don't trust yourself? No. We did not. That's the thing. We did not. That's the problem. Yeah. People are trusting themselves and they're falling. And so people would say, what, you thought you and CD would have sex. We probably

would have, yes, because we loved each other and desired each other. And sex is good. If you think you are standing tall, take heat, lest you fall. Peter, I'll never deny you. Are you out of your mind? People are putting fire in their bosom, fire on their lap. The Bible says, do not put fire in your lap and think you're not going to get burned. Fire in their sheets, in this case. No more sheets, right?

And so, yeah, so literally we were like, we got to go. Burning. We got to go. It was so inconvenient while all my friends are sleeping around, do whatever they want, but I can't, right? And so it was like, we call it like it's a battle to the altar. It was like a battle to get even to the altar waiting for each other. And people like, you didn't do nothing.

You didn't have no oral sex. You didn't have no. You didn't have no, because that was for marriage. And so people have said, how do you have a boundary? Like, how do you set the boundary? Is it, you could kiss right here, but not right here. But what was the line? Right? Because the Bible says in Song of Solomon, daughters of Jerusalem, don't awaken love until it's time. The word is arouse.

Our line was arousal. You have desire. God made you to have desire. But stimulating arousal is a different thing. And so we said to each other, hey, for our boundaries, if ever I'm doing something that is causing any type of arousal, we need to have like a signal that's, It's not weird, you know? And so he said, I'll just kind of open my eyes real wide. And you have to have some type of reverence even in that, because that can even turn into a person being aroused by you being aroused. You're like when I do my head like this. Yeah, like you can lean into that in a way that's just wicked.

Right. But because we love the Lord, and it has to come from your love for the Lord, I want to honor God and I want to honor you. Yeah. And so I said, so if ever I'm feeling subsublished, type of arous. I'm just going to give you a little punch. And that's just like your, oh.

Yeah. So we would say, okay, so we're at the theater one day. He puts his hand on my leg. He was just kind of like rubbing my leg real sweet. And I was like, I like that. I am feeling a little aroused. That's awareness. Hello awareness.

Okay? And I just went like that. And he just took his hand off, you know? He wasn't like. To your point, I didn't go, oh, you like that? Right. Right. Because, you know, I'm a...

But you would say I'm saving that for a woman getting me. I did. I did. It was our marriage savings bank account. Yeah. You know. So you would note what you knew she liked for when you actually had the legal right to provoke it. That's right.

We were going to be in a covenant. Yeah. Yes, because a contract is transactional. But a covenant is transformational. So what that means, even... with like the sugar daddy thing you know the relationship and they even have sugar mamas right the relationship is transactional you're meeting a need of mine and i'm meeting a need of yours it's very shallow that's not the heart of god there's no commitment there's a commitment to the need and it's very

selfish right so covenant is selfless contract is selfish i'm only i'm only only in this because I'm getting something out of it. Now, there is an exchange for sure in a covenant, right? I got this from a book I read called Morality by Dr. Jonathan Sacks. And he talks about how, like, the covenant idea comes from what was established between God and Israel. And you see the fullness of that with Jesus Christ, who came sacrificially, selflessly, to lay his life down. Now, for sure, he endured, right? For the joy set before him, he endured the

cross. For sure, and this is what I wanted to say about that. We want to talk about the grief of obedience. Obedience is inconvenient, but its reward is greater. That's right. It's all about delayed gratification. I could try to put my finger in the mix of the cookie and the cake right now, But it might jack it up. If I wait until it's fully prepared and developed and I put all the cream on and everything like that, it's presented such a nice way and you really enjoy it, right? And for sure, I know people like, you know, cookie dough and all that. But you understand the analogy.

So where do we start? We start with that reverence for Christ. Dating relationships you should be having in the back of your mind. You're not crazy for thinking, could I, marry this person. Yeah. That should be normal. The culture, the fallen culture presents dating with no intentions, no purposes for self-gratification.

And there we go back into that selfless thing or selfish thing. So for me, what really helped as I was going through scripture, so I'm submitted, I'm under submission, I'm being mentored, I'm being disciples, but I'm also in the Word. and the Holy Spirit would speak to me. And I got to 1 Peter chapter 1, verse 13 to 16. And verse 16, it says, be ye holy for I am holy. So why are we being set apart holy, right? That we're used to jack me up.

What does that mean? It means to be sanctified, set apart, consecrated for some good purpose, for some good reason. Why? Well, first and foremost, because that's how God is. So when we have that reverence for Christ and we're trying to walk like him, there's something supernatural that happens into your soul and your spirit where you obey first and foremost because you love God. We used to say purity is not a line. It's a constant pursuit of God out of your love for Him and his purposes. So as I continued reading through scriptures and various different devotions, I remember coming again, he talked about like the practicality.

My wife gave a great example of how we walked holy, how we walked. Again, I don't want to, we're not holier than thou. It's just in what way did this make sense for us? But what's the principle behind that? Where does it say that in the Bible? It does say that in the Bible. Ephesians chapter 5, verse 3, but among you, there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality or covetousness or any such thing, for it is not proper for the children of the Lord,

for the Lord's followers, right? So what does that mean? Romans chapter 14, verse 16, do not let your good be evil spoken thereof. Wow. So I am guarding my body and, you know, sleeping next to her, but I'm not going to have sex. But what about her heart?

What about her mind? Don't let my good be evil spoken of. What about when I leave in the middle of the middle the night or because we're living together. What are other people thinking about us? I'm not too concerned about what other people are thinking, but if I'm giving them reason to not believe I'm being holy, that's just backwards. Yeah.

That's great. That's just not the way that we're called to be. And again, in the spirit, is this how the Holy Spirit is leading you? If you invite men and women into your life and you submit to their accountability, would they agree with this? See, now that your life becomes open, are you truly walking in integrity? Integrity means that I am the same person by myself as I am in public. Who you are in private will come out in public.

Now, I'm not talking about perfection, but are you going through a perfection process? I'm not talking about you don't ever stumble, but do you repent? If we're being perfected in Christ, then there is something internal that's also being evaluated as well. That's good. So I just wanted to give the principle, like it is in scripture. And then one last thing, in the Old Testament where we have all these stories about how Rebecca and Isaac and how we had Jacob and Leah and Rachel and all these, what were they examples? If you go back into those examples, they did not live together. In fact, they were separate in each other's family homes or our own tents or places like that.

And they did marriage a whole different way. but when that deal was consummated, then they stayed together. So the example before us is present and the principle is present. So it is in the scripture. Can I ask a question that connects to this one, which is when we were dating, maybe engaged, I don't remember, we were crossing boundaries. No. I don't recall. You should.

And at one point, we went a, we didn't go far, far, but we went too far. Does that make sense? Sure. And I realized that. And CD rebuked me very hardly. Let me, let me pray the picture. I knew something was wrong when I stopped lacking conviction about it. Yep.

Like, I started, it started to feel kind of flipping, like, so, so what, we kissed too long, or so what, we touched that. And that scared me because I was like, oh, my conscience ain't soft no more. And I called you. And it was so hard for me because I'm like,

she's getting more prayer by the day. I called you because I was afraid. Yeah. I don't want to be a person who can sin without guilt. And I want y'all to speak to the people who have fallen. Yeah. The people who have masturbated,

who have fornicated, who have watched pornography, who have went too far, but they don't have a melody to call. And so they need counsel towards how to move forward. Yeah. Yeah. So two passages come to my mind. Romans 6. I really encourage you, if you're in that battle of lust and masturbation and watch your pornography and you're like, I'm on the other side now. How do I get out of this? Yes, repent. Okay. repentance says, God, forgive me. You need to ask for forgiveness. Repentance is turning around. And so now what do I got to cut off?

Right? The Bible says if your right hand causes your left hand to send cut it off, it is better to be in heaven with one arm than in hell with two. So what do you have to cut off? So the type of music you're listening to, the things you're watching, we have VIT angel on our TV that literally can take out all the best. bad words, all the sex scenes of any movie, anything. What do you got to do? So there's a real cutting off, okay? But the battle's still in here.

The battle's still in here in your flesh. Now that comes to confession. The Bible says in James, to confess your sins to one another so that you will be healed. If we don't confess, we can start to justify it in our mind. I'm getting married. It's okay. It's not a big deal. Everybody's having sex anyway. Our standard is not the world. Our standard is God. Our standard is the word. But we have a helper, the Holy Spirit. And so now we need to ask Holy Spirit, please help me to walk this out in obedience.

I want to walk in obedience. I may need to have friends, companions that are walking in obedience. Better to have one good, faithful friend than none, right? Or five that are being rebellious. Even in your own church. Even in your carnal friendship circle, right? Like, I got to get out of this circle. They all live unrighteously.

I can't do this anymore. And the other thing is this passage in 2nd Timothy. It says, in a wealthy home, some utensils are made of gold and silver, and some are made of wood and clay. The expensive utensils are used for special occasions, and the cheap ones are for everyday use. If you keep yourself pure, you will be a special utensil for honorable use. Your life will be clean and you will be ready for the master to use you for every good work. What am I doing all this for? Because the Lord wants to use you as a clean vessel. That's good.

So we're constantly being purified. Glory to God. We still, we marry 16 years are still pursuing purity. It doesn't stop mentally, emotionally, our motives, what we watch, right? But then what does it say in verse 22, run from anything that stimulates youthful lust. We have to run. You can't sit around it. You can't play with it. You have to run. Instead, pursue righteous living, faithfulness, love, and peace. Enjoy the companionships of those companions, of those who call on the Lord with pure hearts. So you see here, run, pursue, pursue what, righteousness. And then run from, run from, pursue on two, right? And then get around the right people. That's good. And so that, that will help a lot. The women that I have helped, they have had to cut off friends. They have had to

change the way they're dressing because it's attracting a certain audience. They have taken off their thirst trap pictures and videos off Instagram they have because you're you're attracting the wrong attention right and then you're putting a scripture and it goes back to what my my minister said to me it's the duck lips you know who are you attract you attract who you are yeah you attract what you present if you want to you know a godly gal a godly guy someone with integrity and standards then present yourself as such i like to say that this is we were talking about earlier, I believe that men should pursue

and women should present. That's very old school, but I believe it to be true. Women, what are you presenting? How are you presenting yourself? Do you know that the bride of Christ, as my wife referenced earlier, will present herself

to the returning bridegroom? And the returning bridegroom is coming back to pursue his bride? That's the example. sample. So. But let me, let me, because I can hear people saying, are you, are you saying I'm supposed to, do you mean presenting aesthetically or do you mean presenting spiritually? What do you mean? Yes. Both. Both. I mean, so in my view, who you are on the inside represents outside. So if I'm a man of, if I'm a man of character on the, no, we all got style and you know, you guys got beautiful style. And, you know, you guys got beautiful

style, you got your clothing, you got your apparel. But notice that... We did when we met, but yeah, we was broke. We was still drippy a little bit. Still cool. Drippy would be still cool. Drippy would have budget. We had potential.

Yes, and it was developing. And it's full blown. Yes, amen. But check this out. Much of your style, much of your style incorporates the word. Much of your style is bold, bold apparelable, right? And it's... That's a plug.

And it's... It's trendy, but you just can't help it. It's coming out of you. Okay, so then when we talk about other aesthetics, you know. Like a smile. Do you know how many people be mean mugging? You know, Chicago, right? And I'm teaching them to smile again.

Because you have these girls who are like, man, I would love to be in a relationship. But even if a man's like, hello, you know, like, it's at church. So there's so much to it. There's presentation what you're presenting, what you're giving off. I've met women who, you know, they just, you give off. You don't want a man. What does that look like? It could look like a stanky attitude.

It could look like just like you will be in a group of Bible study or something. And I remember my husband's sharing something about marriage and submission. And you just see these girls like, you know, their next. And brothers play attention to that. They do. Yes, they do. And ladies, you should know that. We fellows are paying attention to the woman. You may not want to hear it this way, but we're looking for the woman who will want to submit and support us. If you give off the energy that you ain't willing to submit and you're not willing to support and come alongside what we got going on. And ladies, you should know that, you know, or men, you should also be in position to want to raise. up that woman to be the best that she could be pay attention to her goals and visions and dreams there should be this you know working togetherness but you should know we fellas do pay attention to that i don't disagree i don't disagree however come about talk about it i guess i'll ask

preston because i didn't do anything that y'all just said right so i wasn't smiling i wasn't coming off submissive. I wasn't nothing, even still, nothing about me is technically approachable. Sure. Yet I was pursued. And so I guess my question to you is, was I doing certain things

that they are communicating, but just in a way that appealed to your temperament and your call? So I think you wasn't smiling to other men, but I saw your smell often. Got it. Come on. How about that? I did. Okay. And so we all,

often talked about how all of my friends they were not my friends no more but all of the friends that I had then they all thought you were mean but I was the only one that didn't because I wasn't mean to you you wasn't yeah you wasn't

you smile I saw your gap a lot wow wow I don't know why that was the centerpiece of that sentence yeah no seriously I saw you smile a lot and you the first thing that you showed me is that you supported me.

That was the first words that you ever said to me was, that was a really good poem. You could have did better. And I wanted to show you how you could do better. That's why you became my friend. Oh, that's fair. You did. That's fair.

You supported. You smiled. You smiled. You know. And do you know that? You were mean to everybody else. That was the first word she ever said to me. She complimented me and then she helped me.

What? Ezzer. Come on. Come on. Yeah, that's right. That's Ezra. And 10, 15, 20, 30 plus years later, that's what we should still be doing. Husbands should still be pursuing their wives. Wives should still be presenting themselves for pursuit. And sometimes the wife initiates and sometimes the husband initiates. And I'm not just talking about sex. I'm talking about connection. I'm talking about heart connections. and, you know, to the point to where, like, why is it, we were saying, like, who you are on the inside comes out on the outside? Why are so many men and women?

And we're talking about women right now wrestling so much with the stank face or not wanting to look a certain way or present themselves a certain way. Well, it's because we forgot to tell you all, CD is corny. Okay. We carry pain. So for those who are listening, I have a full lining. Have you ever thank God for that? Have you ever said, you know, Lord. Thank you.

This airline is strong. Yeah, your lining is not receded at all. It is my God. It is a fan sensor. You got that a Tid hut. No, your line. You got that I salute you,

airline. So he has his hat off with some pain glasses on. Yeah. We use these when we do the weekend to remember conferences and other conferences that we do for marriage and whatnot. But even in dating and singleness, what happens is we got filters. The pain.

And we see. relationships we see would be potential guys and gals that we want to be with, but we don't realize that we're constantly presenting that pain. Sorry, I can't stop laughing. I take it off now. It's hindering the message. No, it's practical. You can't see straight.

Yeah, you can't see straight. And you don't realize it. And so this is just a little plug. Like, many of us might need to pursue counseling. Yes. We had to get some healing from, you know, abuses, traumas, pains, what we've witnessed. You talked about many of us men and women, we don't know how to do this right. Because what we did see growing up was fights.

We did see, you know, like all respect to the single mothers, but they saw those, not but, and they saw those single mothers not knowing how to do it right either. And a bunch of men came in. And some of those men were abusive. They saw some of those men in and out. They didn't see how a man is supposed to treat a woman. They didn't see covenant. They saw contracts the whole lives. And those contracts failed.

And that caused pain. That caused trauma. That causes triggers. We need to heal and deal with some of that stuff. When Melody went through her seven-year vow, a lot of that junk from her past came out. When I was being single for six, seven years, a lot of my mind had to be rearranged as to how I saw women.

And you talked about cutting certain things off. I threw away all my CDs. I stopped watching a lot of the movies and stuff. Some of us are really wrestling with pornography and so with this one, and it's jacked up the way that we see women. I remember I was someplace and I was fiddling through some DVDs and a porn DVD popped up. And I was so...

I was somebody's house who had it. And I was so tempted to watch that deal. And by God's grace, because of spending time with them in prayer and the word and whatnot, I didn't even hesitate. I just grabbed them and I snapped it. It wasn't even mine. Dang. I'm sorry, whoever had destroyed their property.

I did. I snapped it. I broke it in a half. They don't. And I threw it into the trash shoot. And that's a story of where I conquered. I don't have, I have stories where I also did not conquer. But as I got more and more in Christ, that was not something that became a continual issue for me.

But the reason why was, again, going back to, I stayed accountable and so forth. But when we deal with those pains and we present ourselves as best as we can, you're not 100% healed and whole. Melody still wrestled with a lot of those things that came up in deeper way. I still wrestled my wife and I I still have to practice purity this whole new way, new platforms so social media thirst traps I'm still a human, I'm still a man

I see certain images I couldn't use my physical to snap and you kind of flip and there's another one and there's another one I just throw my phone across the way and talk to somebody about it because we can still follow those areas in these platforms and kids stuck.

Yeah. Get really, really stuck. So that goes back to my idea of like, you know, have someone that you're accountable to, have something that you're talking with. But these things need to be addressed so that we can present and pursue better. Let me ask you guys this question because I kind of want to, I had another question too, probably asking a couple of minutes, but I want to kind

of revisit the whole smiling and the whole, you know, what Jackie talked about. Because when we were dating, it was very obvious. obvious that when I met Jackie, she did have a certain level of pain, you know, past trauma. Yeah. I had a certain level of pain past trauma. I had, you know, mommy wounds. I didn't trust women for many different reasons. And I can probably hear women listen to you guys.

You say what you said about, you know, like smiling, but then also you get the pain analogy and say, it's kind of hard for me to go and present myself as a smiley woman, but I've been so traumatized. That's just not realistic. That's just not a reality for me. I'll be being fake, right? And so I think the reality is, I think Jackie smiled around me because she felt safe. Sure, that's good.

That's really good. She felt like I was a friend. She felt like she could. And she felt like she probably... You wasn't corny. I ain't liked them. It really wasn't... I mean, I'm sure safety was a component.

I'm like, y'all, I don't like y'all. But I am a woman in that it's a... flaw, I am a woman who disrespects men that I don't think deserve it. And so the way they moved, I was like, y'all don't deserve my respect. The way you moved, you deserve, I felt you deserve my respect. I'm not saying this good. I'm saying it wasn't even just safety. It also was this like, ah, you're a non-factor. Okay. I like that. Yeah. But I guess, sorry, I'm just adding nuance. No, no, I think that's that that's good for the nuance. I guess for the woman. or even the man who feels like the way I've been wounded in the past prevents me from

showing up well with the opposite sex. How do I get past that? Yeah. You know, because I think trauma, past trauma, I meet guys who just feel like all women are a certain way. All women are this and all women are that. So it really does affect how they show up with women. And I've told a couple of brothers, I was like, this might sound soft.

you really don't feel safe. You feel insecure around women. Right. And it's kind, it's, one, it's affecting your dating process. Yeah. You know, I'm saying? You go into this whole dating process, guard it, and you're snappy, and then she thinks she was a certain way, right?

And so how do you, how would you counsel somebody who doesn't feel safe? Well, so I, there's a gentleman I know that I'm walking through some past pains, and it's coming up in their marriage. And I think it's the same thing with anything, really. Number one, you've got to become aware. You can't make adjustments if you're not aware. And what do you need to be aware of that you have a pain? Got to admit it.

Some of us men were carrying bravado, you know, we're like, I'm good. Okay, don't lie to yourself. Then ask the Holy Spirit, like, what is that? What is that in me? And for many men, it's their mama. it's the mama or the grandmama or the aunt or their foster mama or whoever might be which means then you need to go back and find the instances that interpreted great meaning for you and then forgive and why the instances because like in a human body there is a place

a point of infraction and then that place at that point of infraction is where you need to heal but oftentimes we have symptoms that we don't realize it's coming from that place or point of infraction. So you have to maybe treat some symptoms to just kind of stop the blood from flowing and then you kind of start touching and figuring out, oh, that's where it hurts. You do your x-rays, you do all your kind of things.

All right, well, when it comes to matters of the heart, it's memories. And you've got to find that place of infraction, that event, that moment. and usually when you press into it with a counselor, a pastor, a friend, they're going to cry. The same way when you were younger, even now to this day, when you have a major infraction broken bone or something, someone touch it. And you hit that event, you hit that moment, you cry. And when you cry, you may need to just let that cry out so you can desensitize it a little bit.

And then you can start talking about it. Why did it hurt? What did it mean to you? and then begin to just forgive and release. And you do that before the Lord. And you do that with your brother and sister, you know, for a witness. And you continue to walk that out because the pain's going to resurface and the pain's going to resurface and the pain's going to resurface. And the memory is going to resurface.

Two or three of them maybe. And you just, again, I forgive again. I release again. I forgive again. Until what happens is the way that your body will scab up. Your heart will develop not a hard callous, but an ability to heal as part of that process. and then new skin, new sensitivity develops, and you're able to move forward.

So, like, that's the whole idea of, like, I got to do my own work, for sure. You got to do your own work. And if you're single, start on that. But watch this. You don't need to be perfect by the time it's time to tie the knot. But if you're in process and you have in progression, the Holy Spirit and, you know, your community will start to bear witness its time.

and they'll start moving that thing forward. So I want to live in this tension of like healing, but not perfection. You don't have, yeah, some things might come to a completion and you're good, but you're going to have other things that are still underdeveloped. Does that answer your question? Yeah, that's good. I think that's helpful for people who just were like, I don't, you know, I don't feel safe to show up in communities that's socially acceptable in a dating scene.

And I think, you know, I think it's normal, but I think I think giving people tools to know how to heal and to even start that healing process even before they get married, I think it's beneficial. Yeah. All right, y'all. We know y'all want to keep the conversation going. We know y'all want to hear all the things that Melody and CD got to say about singleness and dating and all the stuff. No worries.

We ain't going to cut you off like we did last time. We're obviously giving you a warning that part two is next week. And next week gets better because this conversation got real good. So tune in. Peace. With the Perrys is produced by the Perrys with support from Amanda Reed and Channing McBride. Video recording and audio production by Matthew Baxter and Xavier Fairley. Edited by the team at Tread Lively. Artwork by Hop and music by Swoop. Thank you for listening.

Now go with God.