With The Perrys - Dealing with Anger

Episode Date: June 20, 2022

Everybody gets mad. Some of us are angry at petty stuff. Some of us are angry at the right stuff. But how do we discern between the two or even recognize when we are dealing with anger at all?  Subscribe to the Perrys' newsletter: https://withtheperrys.myflodesk.com/zhfus4jx1s Join Preston's discipleship community for men: https://www.patreon.com/PrestonPerry/membership To support the work of the Perrys, donate via PayPal: https://paypal.me/withtheperrys Shop BOLD Apparel: boldapparel.shop Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, Saints and names. How are you? What's up with y'all? What's up with y'all? I hope you're blessed and highly favored. Don't know where you are. Don't know what you're doing. Don't even know how you're dressed.

Don't even know if you took a bath yet. Brush the teeth. We know all of you guys took baths. Never mind, Jackie. Or showers. Some of you didn't know. Or some of y'all, you know, y'all got in the shower. I feel like I said this before.

But y'all got in the shower without a washcloth. And that's a little concerned. Hey, man. Stop judging the people. No. because that means you just move the soap around with your hand, and that's not enough agitation for me. Agitation.

So that means that it's still some dirt in some places. I'm pretty sure some people sewed up real good with their hand. But your hand is too smooth. You need a washcloth to kind of like, you know, break the dirt apart, and then you rents. I agree. Because I just stayed at some houses where they didn't even offer me a washcloth as an option. I said, oh, that's what y'all do all the time.

I agree, but we ain't going to judge the people because some people are probably real skilled it, but wait. What about the butt? So. Did you just click to you? That's what I'm saying. I was trying to stick up for the people. No.

It's some dirt in some places. So if you. They're not washing that. They just letting the soap run down and they think that's enough. And it's not. Okay. The spirit has more for us. He has came so we can live life and have life more abundantly and having a steel dirty crack.

It's not what God has called us to. Wait a minute. So it's people out there who don't use washcloths? Yes. I'm trying to tell you this. I've stayed at their houses. They'll just, they'll just get you, all they got is body towels. They don't have washcloths.

And that's, that's not even like, I can even see if you got a, like, like, Maybe they use the hand and then wash it real trouble. I'm trying to tell you, they think that because they boo-boed and wiped it, that it's gone now. Oh my goodness. It ain't gone now. How do we start talking about boo-bo? Especially you're a man. It's things underneath that.

Okay, listen. Okay, let's move on. Let's move on. This episode is not about boo-bo. You can squirt as much body wash as you want to on the places where the sun don't shine. This episode is not about washing up. It's dirty. Okay.

What are we talking about today? We're talking about anger. That had nothing to do. But that's the point, right? We're supposed to, like, talk about something that has nothing to do with none. So anger is an emotion, an experience that all humans, even dogs have. Like, anger is... Our dog gets angry a lot.

Is a thing. And there's, I think, two... There's multiple perspectives, but I think two healthy perspectives of anger is all anger isn't bad. Right. Right. God gets angry. Like there's righteous anger that something bad happened to this person or there was an offense

towards God and I have a righteous zeal about it. But then there's anger that is sinful, right? That is raging and wrathful and unkind and all the things. And so I think part of the struggle as a Christian is one to discern. when we're functioning in either one. Yeah. But also how not to be a slave to either one. And so I think my first question for you would be,

what is your experience with anger, both of them, unrighteous and righteous anger? That's a good question. Well, as you know, you're my wife, right? I had an anger issue most of my life. Yeah, I think my experience with anger is a combination of a lot of things. It was a combination of how I was raised. I think it was a combination of just my personality.

When you say that, though, how was the way you were raised? Like, how did that? I saw a lot of people around me act in anger all the time. And so, you know, I think that you kind of instinctively pick up, you know, habits. I mean, everybody around me was just angry. You know what I said. I grew up seeing, you know, people fighting and just with a fast temper. And so, like, I think that you, you, you, you kind of adopt a lot of those, a lot of those

characteristics, but I think, um, a lot of my anger dealt with deep trauma and deep hurt and rejection, right? And so not having my father around as much as I once wanted to, my mentor in sixth grade pointed it out like, you're hurt, right? And so, uh, I think that you, I became accustomed to, having like a quick temper and um because i think when we talk about anger in general i think it's anger can be so so layered like i think a lot of times when you see anger you kind of you're kind of seeing the the manifestation of something that's deeper right hurt trauma pain grief a pride it's so many things under under under anger and so like i think minds was just a lot of that Because I think it's helpful to know or for people to be reminded that anger is a symptom, right?

And so I think sometimes it's easier to feel the anger instead of asking the question of why is it even there? Yeah. Like what am I mad at? What am I hurting about? What am I frustrated with? Underneath it, we're able to deal whatever that thing is, which helps to deal with the anger. Absolutely. But go ahead.

Absolutely. And it wasn't until I became a Christian why I learned that. that and you know men of god who walk with me had to teach me um you know and so like i think yeah my my um so to answer your question about you know my my i guess sinful anger i've i struggle with that even as a christian i mean i mean you know how it was when i first became a christian you know i'm saying like um when i first started to do poetry and churches um And I had interaction with people after the event. The old Preston couldn't, you couldn't say something to the old Preston back then that you can say to me now, right?

I'm much more mature in Christ. God has humbled me in a lot of ways and showed me and taught me a lot about myself. And so back then I had a fast temper, you know what I'm saying? And just, I was still, you know, I think when we become Christ, he does make us new creatures. But let's be honest, we still have the. a residue of our old nature, you know what I'm saying, in some way, shape, of form. And so that's the reason why when God saves us, he doesn't, he doesn't holistically save us once and for all on earth. No, it's a sanctification process. And so when God was sanctifying

me through the years, I had a lot of tears, you know what I'm saying, dealing with anger, which was encouraging, because I think it showed me that I knew God and I had conviction over my anger. But it was something that in the beginning, my early Christian days, it was something that I felt like I was never going to shake. Yeah. But God. Yeah, I think the thing with me and the way I was raised and parented is that nobody would look at me even now and think that I'm an angry person. I think serious, yes, but maybe not angry. I mean, some people who look at you online, they might like oh i i can see her getting angry perhaps yeah

because you're so because you seem so serious but you're goofy too yeah i i guess what i'm trying to say is i think the way your anger expressed itself looked like the common typical form of anger yeah loud violent raging all the things right i've never done that no yeah you know what i'm saying and so i think it would it would like if we you put my anger in a room with your anger, my anger wouldn't look like anger.

Yeah. And I had to realize, though, I think I was reading a book or listening to somebody speak, and they were saying that being easily irritated is being easily angered. And that's when I realized, oh, I have an anger problem too. Wow. Because I don't rage and I don't get violent, but I get mad at little things very quickly all the time.

It could be somebody chewing the wrong way. and I'm irritated. Oh, you have to repeat yourself. You hate that. Ah, it just, it bothers me in that,

like, we have to name it. It's anger. You're mad. Like, really petty things. And so I really do think that is an unrighteous form of anger

to always be perturbed and disturbed and distressed by every single thing in the world, which is also probably a product of control. Because you want everybody to, move and speak and behave in a certain way around you. And when they don't, it bids you all.

And that's the problem. So we also got to deal with that. Yeah, yeah. Like I said, it's layered. I think you asked me a question. I don't think I answered your second question. It was like, how have I dealt with righteous anger? And I think before.

I have a theory, but I'm going to let you talk. Go ahead. But before, like, before I felt like God had to show. show me where righteous anger was. He had to first expose how unrighteous my anger was. And so, and I think God did that by showing me how low-key prideful I was. Oh, yeah. Because I think a lot of times our anger is attached to pride or is attached to not feeling

like we have control of a situation, which is pride, and we feel like we should have control of a situation. And also think that it is, a lot of my anger was not just pride or feeling like I didn't have control, but a lot of anxiety of feeling afraid and not wanting to name it fear because of the toxic masculinity that I was so steeped in in my environment. And so like it's an emotion. It's an emotion that's easy for a man to, to eat. easily go to instead of just saying I'm scared, right? Because, which is

sad that a man being angry is still considered some form of strength. Yeah, because you remember when my cousin got shot, right? Right. And you remember how I acted. Like, I went crazy. I was punching stuff,

you know what I'm saying, crying, and but looking back at that Preston, I really just wanted to mourn and I wanted to be sad and I wanted to pray and I wanted to but like I think looking back just to be honest and transparent I was afraid of looking weak right and so instead of saying man my cousin just got shot all of these times and by the grace of God he survived but when you hear that he got shot those many times you just automatically think that he's dead and so instead of just

just looking weak in front of a lot of the people that I was around, I think fear is more convenient for somebody who doesn't want to look weak. Anger. Yeah, I'm sorry. Anger. I think anger is more convenient to somebody who doesn't want to look weak because it's a, it's a, it's,

sometimes I think anger for a man can be like a, like a false sign of strength still. Why are men so angry? I don't know. That's a thing. I don't know. I think that's a, I think that's such a broad question because I think,

of course. Yeah, well, I think men, of course, are angry for different reasons. I know in the context that I came from, we're angry for a lot of different reasons.

You know, when, when you grew up struggling, and I didn't, like, I grew up around a lot of people who struggled, a lot of black men who struggled, and a lot of black men who didn't have a silver spoon put in their mouth,

and a lot of black men who had it had it rough in the house and then when they came outside it was even rougher, right? People who felt like everybody's always trying to take advantage of me at any given time. I don't have time not to have this persona that I'm tough and that I'm serious and I don't have any room not to express anger the moment anybody ever tries to trap me, right? Because it's a form of protection. And so I think you just kind of grow up. in an environment where you're not really taught or even give them the permission to feel. And so anger is just a way of life for a lot of people, you know. And I think, yeah, I think for a lot of men, like I say, I think anger can be like this false sense of strength, right?

instead of crying and being vulnerable, I'd rather be angry, right? Because it is a way to let some emotion out. It's not, you're not letting that emotion out in a healthy way, but I do think it's a way to let some emotion out. We had a conversation with Rich Perez in February. Yeah. And we talked about this. And one thing Rich said that was really insightful is that he thinks that, you know,

men have been given the permission to be angry, but not to feel any other emotion. And that that is potentially the reason why men find themselves chasing after women sexually because that's also the only place they've been given the permission to feel something. And so I think that's the thing is that, yeah, you can be angry, but if you don't deal with the hurt and the insecurity and the pain and the frustration, underneath it, then you also find other sinful ways to cope, you know, because it's a mean, like, anger makes you numb. Yeah, it does.

But because you're human, you need to feel something. Yeah. And so some people run to sex or pornography or whatever it is to feel alive again, but really, they just need to cry out before the Lord and allow the Lord to do a work and to heal them, actually. because, you know, acting out with rage or having sex with everybody you find or whatever, however you deal with your stuff, it's not healing you. Yeah, absolutely.

Because if we don't learn how to express ourselves as men, and I don't even want to just limit this to men, you know, men and women, you know, if we don't learn how to express ourselves, I do think that we will result to anger as a false sense of relief. It's like, okay, let me, let me get this out. You know what I'm saying? But it wasn't until I started to really learn how to like be okay with the way I was feeling and learning that crying isn't a sign of weakness when I started to see, okay, I don't get angry as much. You know what I'm saying?

Because I know how to process my emotions in a healthy way. I'm trying to figure out while you were talking I was thinking. Like I was trying to think about the women I know and how anger looks for them. and I can't put my finger on it, to be honest. Because again, I think a woman's anger, I mean, there are some extreme versions, you know, where you got, I buzzer, when I was out of your car. Like, that's anger, right? I've seen it.

Put snickers in tanks and things. But I also. Snickers in tanks. Yeah, you never. So if you put sugar in somebody's tank, the sugar messes up the car. Yeah. And so I guess I'm just trying to think through ways. that anger can look coming from a,

how anger can look coming from a feminine body. And I think one way is manipulation. Hmm, break that down. What do you mean about that? So what I've discovered or observed is that women who have been controlled or abused or put in circumstances that are unjust, that they developed a defenseman. mechanism to protect themselves from pain and protect themselves from being used.

And a part of the way they do that is to control their environment and control people. And controlling their environment and controlling people allows them to kind of play a chess game with life where they're always the one in power. But the thing is, at the root of that is anger. So, okay, so you're saying... You're still mad at what somebody did to you. And because you haven't dealt with what they did to you, now you're controlling everybody. And so instead of just dealing with your anger.

Yeah. You just got to deal with it. Because it's the hurt and the rage intertwine that's manifested in itself and you making puzzle pieces out of human beings. Yeah. And that's a problem. So not anger per se, but what anger causes you do. How it looks.

Yeah. Because I mean, a man being sexually promiscuous, it doesn't look like anger. But underneath it is this, I am mad at the fact that my mother rejected me. So I'm going to reject every woman. and I'm going to take their body, but I'm never going to give them my heart. That's what anger does to us. It makes us animals. Wow.

And that's a, I think God wants us to be human. And a part of being human is feeling, feelings, but giving them to the Lord so that we're able to engage with the world around us and even engage with ourselves in an authentic way. Yeah, yeah, man. That's so deep. Well, everybody who's close with me or who knows me, know that I've dealt with anger. But I remember, I think I could remember one of the first times I was extremely convicted by how angry I got.

And it was, it was a simple truth, but it was so heavy for me. And that truth was, and I know we've heard people say this a bunch of times, and it can sound like a cliche, but like all the times in which we offended God, you know, for us to be angry. angry at someone for their little offenses, even if the offense is great, right? God is the only one who is perfect, right? Who is, whose fault is. And so he doesn't deserve to be sinned against.

Yes. Right. And so we're not. We're not perfect, you know. And so I think this is the reason why the Bible tells us to be angry, but to sin not, right? Because anger is, is an emotion that God has given us. And if we, if we're, if we're righteous, right? Do you think that's true?

Yeah. Explain. Because I think righteous anger compels us to serve God, right? And so I think when, when we have a righteous anger that doesn't, that, that it's not vengeful, right? But wants to serve God and serve people, right? I think God can use that, right? And so I think, I think every emotion that we have, God created it, you know what I'm saying? because in the way that God gets angry,

he allows us to get angry. He just wants our anger to look righteous, like his anger is righteous. I guess I was thinking, and this is just me processing. It's not saying, I'm not saying you're wrong or right. Oh, you bet not say you.

It's more so that the human part of anger is the reality that we're made in the image of God. Therefore, a root of mostly all anger, sinful or not, is we are responding to injustice. So you did something wrong to me. You did something wrong in the world. You did something.

And so there's wrath and there's anger. But I think the funny thing is, if sin didn't exist, will we be angry? That's the question. So that's why I asked what I asked. Yeah. Because it's like, yes, we're made in the image of God and therefore we care about wrongdoing. But even then, the presence of anger in this world is a result of the fall.

Yeah. And so one day will be in a place where there is no injustice, therefore there is no anger. But now we're in the place where there is and now we got to deal with it. Yeah. Sorry, I just made that real deep. Yeah. No, I think it's true, though. And I think it's a good point because I think if sin didn't exist, jealousy wouldn't exist, right?

Yep. You know, but we see that God is still a jealous God. He's not jealous of us. He's jealous for us. So I think that when a spouse cheats on their spouse, I think she or he has a wrong. right to be angry, right? I don't think that he has a right or she has a right to sin against their spouse, but, you know, this person who belonged to you, who gave them, they gave you their vows that they were, honor you and protect you and to stay committed to you, they lied, right?

And they, they portrays you. And so, like, I think anger is an emotion that God is not mad that we feel sometimes. But I think that when we sin against people in that anger, I think that's when God has a big problem with it. Yeah, because that comes out of unbelief. Yes. I've always been really challenged in Peter, where it says that when they reviled him, Jesus, he did not return.

Let me see. I want to actually say it. I don't know. I'm paraphrasing. Paul. We told him when Peter chopped off buddy ear? No, it's in Peter. It says like when they reviled him,

he did not speak or return before he and, entrusted himself to the one who judges justly. That's what Brian, when he first started disciplining me, he was like, yeah, you're Peter. Okay. So in First Peter, too, it says when he was reviled, Jesus, he did not revile in return, meaning he did not insult in return. When he suffered, he did not threaten, but continued entrusting himself to one who judges justly.

And I think that's always convicted me because becoming a person that does not sin against God in your anger is to become a person that believes that vengeance really does belong to the Lord. Yeah. And so there's a, there's a, there's a measure of faith that I have to have that God sees the wrong that has been done to me, big or small, and he will handle it. Or he has handled it because Christ died on the cross and took on the penalty of sin. And so, I mean, that's hard because you feel weak and you feel like, you know, if somebody

did something crazy to you, betrayed you, or you got people who's, who's, like, family, like you have, like, whose families have been killed. You got Trayvon's Martin mom. Like, you have all this injustice in the world and you feel like if I don't do something, who is? Yeah. And so we, I think there's this burden that we have to trust God to handle it. Now, that does not mean that where there is injustice, we just sit back and say,

I mean, you know, God is going to handle it. No, like God has put us on earth to do justice too, right? But I'm talking about in the sinful way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think even on a deeper level, just speaking for myself, like my anger, of course, I got angry for, you know, things that happen, you know, with my family and seeing people close to me, you know, killed. And which I think people who experience things like that, that's a natural emotion. But I think a lot of it is low-key us playing like the, like, the right. role of God, like thinking that no one should sin against us, right? And so I, I low-key felt like that

at times that like, no, like, it was this self-righteousness in me, you know what I'm saying, that when somebody's sinned against me, though I had a right to be angry, I responded to them in a way that was, like, vengeful because I didn't, like, like, how dare you, you know what I said? Like, I'm not to be, you know, sinned against. And it's like, no, like, the only one who was perfect It's God. And so I'm not justifying people, you know, send it against me. But I think the way I responded, yeah, I think God wants us to be humble even in how we respond in our anger.

That connects to an idea I had, which is one time I heard Tim Keller say, if you interrogate or investigate the things that make you angry, you'll find your idols. And things that are things that are make you angry that won't make me angry. And there are things that make me angry that won't make you angry. And that's because we have a different set of idols and a different way of seeing our identity, right? And so one of your biggest triggers is feeling like somebody's trying to like check you or son you. Don't do that. Like that triggers you in a really deep way.

I remember when we first got married, it was just, yeah, I feel sorry even thinking of it. about it now I just used to like I just used to just like when I first got married to you I just used to snap really fast because I thought that she was trying to son me yeah it's like no I don't try to control me right it was so much pride under that you know what I said that guy had to like deal with my heart bad and I didn't hurt your little feelings at times and I'm like why am I so aggressive at this you know what I'm saying and so like but it was it was so what is the idol there what is that the idol there is you think you must think I'm weak being being you must think I'm weak Being like, yeah, you, like, feeling like you perceive me as somebody that you can take advantage of.

Oh, don't. Like, I was raised never to let anybody think that I'm weak. And so, like, when you used to say little things or like, like, who you think I am? You know what I'm saying? And it was just immediately, like, anger will feel my body. I understand that. You know what I'm saying? Because that's, you know what I'm saying?

Like, I was trained to think a certain way. So I think a lot of our anger, I said it in the beginning of this podcast. I think it's attached to how we were raised and our examples of how we saw human beings deal with other human beings. You know what I'm saying? I think one thing that makes me angry, and this is going to sound petty, but it's not, is when I feel like people think I'm stupid. Yeah. So one way that shows up is if I can see that somebody's trying to manipulate me, it makes me angry because it's like oh you really think i don't see you like it's like you think

i'm dumb enough to not see how you move and that actually like makes me really angry yeah you know what i'm saying and do you think that sometimes you're justified in the anger if that is the case sure sure because but it's as if i'm assigning like awareness to the person as if the person And it's like, oh, Jackie doesn't see me. So I'm a manipulator. Because to me, it's like, oh, you think I'm crazy. Right. Like, you think I don't see you.

But I think one of the really negative ways that it also manifests is that underneath that isn't, I think, an idol of me feeling really smart and intelligent, right? Yeah. And so one way it manifests is me being angry that somebody could think that I don't see that they're trying to manipulate me. But another one is if I'm in a room and someone tries to intellectually undermine me. So it's manifesting in all kinds of different ways where somebody's intellectual arrogance is really anger. Yeah.

It's not, I'm smarter than you. Yeah. So calm down. So you're saying that you and other people can have anger because they have so much competence in their intelligence that when somebody challenges you, you, it kind of exposes the idol. The idol is, I idolize the way I'm able to think. And therefore, in any way where the way I think is challenged, then you will see anger. Yeah.

Too much confidence in your competence. Yeah. Which exposes pride and anger. All the things. Yeah, yeah. All the things. So I'm just saying that, like, getting underneath our anger and seeing what the idol is and dealing with the idols can actually make us happier people.

Yeah. Now, to end, I think we should talk about righteous anger real quick. And my theory, I mentioned at the beginning, I think I have a theory with you, which is, I wonder how much your apologetics ministry is driven by righteous anger. Yeah, it is. Explain. It's a, it's, it's, it's such a, it's such a righteous anger because I, like, I, I, I have a, I have a deep anger for people. who leave people astray from the true gospel.

Like it's a burning inside of me. And I also have, I also feel this strong, I don't even know if this is anger, but I do get angry at the fact that Christians walk past Jehovah's Witnesses and other religions every single day and act like Matthew 28, when the Bible tells us to make disciples of all nations, is not including these people who need salvation. Which is a justice thing. Yeah, which is a justice thing.

And so, like, for me, I don't necessarily have to be the smartest apologists in the world. I just know how to know the gospel and know what you believe is false. And to share the gospel with you and at least tell you what you believe is wrong. And so for me, a lot of my evangelism and my apologetics is driven by this righteous anger that, that says, there's like no like no you you just can't be out here teaching that Jesus is not God in the flesh you just can't be out here teaching that God doesn't exist and that you know religion is is is is evil and you know because these are these are lies and so like I do you know I heard an artist say one time that you know you don't need to defend God um you don't need to defend a lion

you just you just got to let them out of the cage and so my righteous anger isn't driven by me feeling like I have to defend God. But I do feel like as a child, I think that I should feel not like a self-righteous anger, like I'm better than people, but an anger that drives me and compels me to act and to bring justice to people who are being lied to. You know what I'm saying?

So I think when anger is done, when your anger is righteous in that way, I think that it won't cause you to look down on people. It won't cause you to have your nose up and it won't want to cause you to talk down to people, but it will cause you to serve God and serve people when you see injustices happening. And so I just have that burden for, I guess,

different religions and churches. No, that's beautiful. Because I brought that up because I think you could be encouraging for people to know that they, like that there is, there are practical, ways to express righteous anger that actually end up doing good in the world. Yeah.

You know? Let me just say this too bad. That's, that's one thing. That's, I guess that's one way you can identify if your, if your anger is righteous. When you see someone doing it in justice, not attacking them, but doing the opposite to make sure you be a good representation to expose. Flesh that out. So basically, like, I think if a lot of people.

people would stop attacking people who they feel is false, but you feel more of a need to preach the true gospel because of the, the lies that you're seeing that it's spilled. Because I think it's easy when someone says something false or does something, you know, in the body of Christ or even does something to you, for you to attack them and to express your anger on someone. But I think, no, real righteous anger compels us to not only be compassionate to the people who are hearing lies or being compassionate with others, but actually being compassionate to the person who's spilling the lies and saying, you know what? Because what you just said is false and what you just did is wrong.

Instead of me being self-righteous in my anger and attacking you, no, this is actually compelling me to be the opposite, like to really walk. By the spirit. By the spirit because I don't believe you are. And so I think real righteous anger compels us to be different, not compels us to attack. That's good. You know what I'm saying? That's good. Because, yeah, I would think that that was what was at play when Jesus cleansed the temple.

Yeah. You know, like it was zeal for his father's house that moved him to do what might have looked violent. Yeah. And potentially they would assume unrighteous. But nah, that was righteous anger. Like, y'all going to put respect on my daddy's name. Right. You know what I'm saying?

So there is a place. There is place for the cleansing of the temple. And then there is place for being reviled and not reviling in return. Yeah. But I think the way we discern how to move is by the power of the spirit. Yeah. Yeah. It's good.

That was enjoyable. Yeah, bet. I'm not angry at all. I'm a little angry. You didn't buy me nothing to eat and you, if you asked you something. Bye y'all. But I'm going to get that to the Lord.

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