With The Perrys - Deep Dive: Encouragement for the Weary

Episode Date: August 24, 2026

To change things up from a typical re-run, our team has put together “deep dive” episodes on specific topics or themes, pulling key moments from relevant episodes and bringing them together for one comprehensive listening experience. What do you do when faith feels hard, when you’re wrestling with doubt, unanswered prayers, or disappointment with God? Jackie, Preston, and a number of their podcast guests have words of encouragement to speak over you. If you feel weary or like you’re struggling to believe God is good, we hope these clips from past episodes will provide reassurance to keep going. Today’s Deep Dive features content from four past episodes: When Christianity Gets Hard (August 2025) – https://youtu.be/kUdSyOhX-Nc How to Wrestle with God with Lisa Fields (August 2024) – https://youtu.be/KwTKOItm3Wo Infertility and Finding God After Unanswered Prayer with Jennifer Lucy Tyler (October 2025) A Conversation About Anxiety with Blair Linne – https://youtu.be/Axt75sjBXA4 This Episode is Sponsored By: Https://fieldofgreens.com — Get 20% off with promo code PERRY With The Perrys is a podcast where biblical truth meets honest conversation. Join Preston Perry and Jackie Hill Perry as they discuss theology, relationships, parenting, culture, and the everyday realities of following Jesus. With humor, transparency, and a deep commitment to Scripture, each episode aims to point listeners back to Christ, deepen their understanding of God's Word, and encourage faithful obedience in every area of life. Subscribe to the newsletter: ⁠https://withtheperrys.myflodesk.com/zhfus4jx1s⁠ Follow Preston: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/preston_n_perry/⁠ Follow Jackie: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/jackiehillperry/⁠ Follow The Perrys: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/withtheperrys/⁠ Join Preston's discipleship community for men: ⁠https://www.patreon.com/PrestonPerry/membership⁠ Shop BOLD Apparel: ⁠https://boldapparel.shop/⁠ ⁠withtheperrys.com⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

People do exit interviews with me when they leave the faith. They always want to talk to me on their way out. And there are always, I saw this reoccurring theme of just being disappointed. Whether they grew up in a word of faith background or a more reformed background, the disappointment of what they thought that the faith was going to bring them versus what they actually were experiencing was one of the reasons they were exiting. And they were, while they had some children. church hurt or different things, the core issue was they were mad at God. And so I was like,

I want to write a book addressing them because they're angry at God and they don't know how to wrestle with God. That's good. And so if you don't know how to wrestle with God, you'll leave the faith. But when you wrestle with God, your faith becomes stronger. And so I wanted to give really a kind of a guide and help people know that this is a normal occurrence in the Christian faith. that I've wrestled with it. Many people throughout scripture have wrestled with it. And it's normal for you to be disappointed. It's normal for you to be angry.

And I thought that that was a way to kind of stop the bleeding of the mass exodus we're seeing from people of all ages and races leaving the faith. That's good. Wow, that's good. Can you talk about that, though? Can you talk about your personal wrestle with faith? because I do apologetics too and I think a lot of times when we are in this space

people like always be prepared to make a defense for what you believe what you believe and so I think they have this misconception that apologists just always have answers and they never have questions for the Lord and it's like no I think in a lot of ways the reason why we have answers is because we wrestle through the questions

right and so you know can you talk about that? I've read the book and one of the things that stuck out to me is the kind of experience you had with your professor. And your professor is saying, you know, yeah, I don't want to ruin it. But can you just talk about that dynamic and that wrestle as being a person who's in a lot of academic spaces, a person who's an apologist, you graded what you do, but you've also had your own personal experience with doubt and faith? So as a seminary student at Liberty, I was wrestling with my faith.

If we were learning about the problem of evil, you know, you go through all these courses. And it just, I was, I heard something about terrorist murdering children. Mm-hmm. And that really struck me because I'm like, God, I understand. I understand all the apology. I know we got free will. I know that you're working these things out for our good. I know, as Tim Keller said, just because we don't know the reason doesn't mean there isn't a good reason.

Yeah, yeah. But it just wasn't emotionally satisfying for me. Yeah. And I think that for a lot of people, that's what it is. It's like, okay, you give me the logic. You're giving me the apologetic. But this don't sit right with my soul. Because for me, I grew up with great parents.

My parents, if they knew that anything bad was about to happen to me and they could stop it, they would. So if you're telling me that God loves me more than my parents. And when it comes to adults, sometimes you'd be like, you know, maybe something happened to you that you've, that you've, deserve what's happening. You sometimes people try to ration it out like that. But when it comes to children, you're like, God, they're innocent. There is nothing they did for a terrorist to do this to them. And so in my soul, I just could not reconcile it. And so I went to my professor. I was like, Dr. Pursar, I'm going to go to him. He's the director of the Apologiatist department. He has this Ph.D. in New Testament. So he's going to give me this great answer. So I go in there. I always

used to talk to him. I'm, I'm a, I was a student that used my professors, uh, office hours to talk and flush out stuff. And so he was no stranger to me going, being in his office. And so I was telling him what I was dealing with. And he was like, me too. And I was like, oh, that's the best you're going give me. He was like, chapel started in 15 minutes. You're ready to go? Um, and I think that really helped me know that like him sitting with me in that moment. he knew that I knew the reason. Yeah, yeah. The logical reasons.

Yeah, yeah. But he was like, let me give her relatability. Let me sit in this with her to let her know that it's okay. Yeah. And that really was what helped me get to the other side. I think that's beautiful because I think it just shows us that in all the knowledge that we know, you have to, like, leading with our humanity goes a long way, right? Because like Jesus, like I often think.

It's funny how God became man to dwell amongst his own creation to lead us in humanity. And oftentimes we try to help people by having all the answers like God. And a lot of times God was just present. And he just empathized. And he said, you know, I'm hurt too. You know, Martha and Mary, I'm going to cry with y'all too over Lazarus death. And so I think that's dope. That's dope.

Do you think your early church experience gave you the tools, the resources, or even the framework? to be able to wrestle with God in that way? Or was it new for you to experience what you were experienced in college? You know, I never questioned God. Like, I just didn't have a reason to question them. I grew up kind of sheltered Christian home. And so there was never anything

that I deemed traumatic to question. Like, I was in a bubble. And you're not really wrestling with the hard complexities of the world. And so I don't, I never questioned or I never was technically wrestling with something that deep where I had to like wrestle with the question. My dad always told us, because my father's a pastor, like, talk to God how you talk to me.

So that was always kind of my framework of talking to God, but I never had to wrestle critically until I got to college. Do you think that people are afraid to do that? And if so, why? Yeah, I think a lot of people are. feel like they're going to get struck down by lightning if they question God. They feel like how dare they? Because, you know, if you grew up in black churches, it's like, don't question God.

And so they're like, I can't do this. But to grow in any relationship, I love Joe Vitale says, when you enter any relationship, you ask questions. When you meet, when you met Preston or when you met Jackie, y'all asked each other questions. Not because. He asked you a million questions. because you wanted to get to know the person. But when we come to God,

it's like, why do you think that you're going to grow in your relationship with him without questioning? That's good. That's really good. That's really good. I think one of the things that make you so effective is that it's very obvious that you've learned how to critically think through things.

Yeah, I think, I'm trying to be balanced. I think we have a hard time with the intersection between like faith and lament, faith and struggle with faith, faith, and doubt, and how all of these things can coexist at the same time and yet still be reverent, right? Like, I can be struggling with faith and it not be unbelief. Yeah. Do you understand what I'm saying?

So unbelief, like, I'm trying to think of. these two texts. I am not used to this Bible. I need my Bible, bro. Can I see you got a Bible? Mm-hmm. So I don't know where my ESB Bible. Ooh, Jesus.

Y'all, I'm not buying it. Kishin'i. That's what kind of Bible this is. Okay, okay, okay, okay. Is it Psalms 2-4? No. So you have two situations where, like, you have Sarah in Genesis where a word is given that she will have a baby and she laughs that she'll have

Isaac, I believe. Yeah, that she'll have Isaac and she laughs and that is accredit to her as unbelief, that she doubts the Lord. Then you have Mary who asks the question of when she hears from the angel that she will give birth to a son. And she is like, how, will this be, but it's a credit to her as faith. But she's asking these questions, not out of doubt, but out of a wrestle, out of a curiosity that's rooted in a reverence for, I know you can do it. I'm just wondering how. Sarah is like, no, I just actually don't believe you're going to do that because I've been waiting this long and you haven't done it thus far. And so I think from the outside looking in, sometimes we can see wrestling and assume that all wrestling,

wrestling is irreverence, and that's not the case. That's good. And so I think in both cases, we see evidences that some wrestling is reverence, some wrestling is irreverence. And so that's what I'm saying. I think in the church sometimes we are assuming that all struggle is sinful struggle. That's good. And that's not true.

That's good. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Like, and I used to be super, that's, I'm really glad you made that distinction, because I used to be super discouraged and I kind of felt like, especially in that season, that I had no room to ever express

that this is hard. That I'm surrounded around so many people that I feel like I'm forced to love that don't love me at all. What do you mean? Because at that season in my life, I had transitioned out of the church and I felt like it was so much slander,

so much, you know, like gossip against me or whatever and I'm still trying to be a Christian. And I love God and I identify with, you know, the audio that you play. Like, it's not like I doubt this word. I just doubt everybody around me. It's super discouraging. And so I think making that distinguishing the two and also letting us know, no, there is a proper place for us to lament to mourn and, you know, to grieve.

And we shouldn't always have to feel like we're not believers because we choose to do so. Yeah. And what I hear in, what something she said that is very significant is that she doesn't like that there is no room for numbness in the Christian faith like there is in the world. I actually think that that is a major part of what makes Christianity hard. What do you mean by that? Because in Christianity, you have to endure suffering in the world. you can cope. For example, in the world, when stuff get hard, I could go distract myself with something.

I can get in a relationship to distract myself, like a sinful relationship and distract myself. I can have an idolatial situation and distract myself. I could drink the bottle all the way to the dregs and distract myself. I smoked blunts every single hour on the hour to distract myself. You can pull up pornographic. images to get that shot of dopamine to distract yourself. But then when you become a Christian, you have all of these laws and then you have these convictions, then you have this conscience

where the Lord is like, that's in, that's sin, that's sin, that's sin, that's in, that's in, that's in. And so now the things that you turn to as coffee mechanisms are sin. And so now when things get hard, now God wants you to trust him. And put those things in death. And in trusting him, it doesn't mean that he, like he's a refuge, but it doesn't mean that he won't take the bad feelings away as you wait on him. I really hope y'all are making time for your annual checkups and your doctor's visits and getting your labs and your blood work is really important, especially after 30.

For us, we got four kids. So I want to stay healthy for them. But I don't always look forward to getting checkups all the time. And even before the checkup, before the lab, before the blood work, what you do before the appointment actually matters. So before your next checkup, make the one health change your doctor should notice or your money back.

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One scoop, once a day, done. Make Field of Greens your one smart change this year. You can check out the university study and get 20% off at fieldofgreens.com, promo code Perry. That's fieldofgreens. promo code there. Lord, use your parents and name you Lucy.

Yes, because I have two grandmothers who had that name. Okay. Oh, that's dope. That's beautiful. That is a beautiful name.

It's like your middle name. Babe, you bet not. Jen has a book called When Dreams. She on one today. This is what happens when you start podcasted at 2. Because we usually shoot at 10.

It's 2 p.m. I'm winding down. When dreams fall part how unanswered prayers can deepen your intimacy with God. When did you know that you should write a book about something that was actually hard to go through? I knew that what I was walking through needed to be shared with others because other people were walking through similar things. And I realize that this is not just a me problem, but every believer experiences this. I mean, we do know that God answers prayer.

But every believer, every Christian, if you ask them, there's something that they are praying for or trust in the Lord for that has not yet been answered. And so there's attention there. There's that, I call it the messy middle that can get a little crazy at times if you don't know who God is. And so I just wrote that to really walk with people, not necessarily. I don't believe my book is a solution, like a self-help kind of book, but it's like, all right, let's help you to be able to see God in all of this as you are wrestling and as you're walking through and as you're waiting for God to answer or perhaps he does answer and you don't

like to answer. Yeah. You know, that part. And that happens frequent and it's what I have walked through and what I am continuing to walk through. Yeah, yeah. So I know your, I don't know all of you. your story. I know a lot of it. Me and Jennifer met a couple years ago, I think, at Jude

three. Yeah. But I feel like we followed each other for a minute. Yeah. And I know a big feature in your story was dealing with years of infertility. Yeah. We have women who are watching, who are listening, who are probably going through that, have been through that. And some people deal with it quietly, especially because I just know in the church where being a parent, being a mother, being pregnant comes with a lot of high esteem and gladness. And you could feel shame.

Like, I'm always even careful when people been married for a year. Like, when y'all having a baby? It's like, you don't know what they're doing. Like, even those questions can provoke some type of something. So I guess I just want us to walk through that using your story as a means to do it. Yeah.

Gosh, so my husband and I got married in 2011, and we ended up getting pregnant our first year of marriage, and then I had a miscarriage. And after that miscarriage, you know, you go and you're trying again. And I always say year one passed, year two, three, four, five. Yeah. And the years continue to pass.

And at the time, I thought, what am I doing wrong? You know, am I not saying the right things? Am I not praying the right prayers? And I started to look at myself. And that, a lot of shame came with that, a lot of sorrow, a lot of anger came with it. Why anger? Because there was a time. where I did not view God in the right light.

I thought that I'm doing all the right things. I am checking the boxes. You know, I got with my husband and I waited. We waited until we got married. We did everything right. I'm serving you, you know. And my husband is an educator. Kids love him.

And so every... I got a good baby daddy. Yes. I got a good baby daddy, all the things. And so... And then I would see other people. And I started comparing myself. I would see, you know, let me...

I'm not even going to say who I would see. I almost did. But I would see different people be blessed that I thought maybe didn't deserve to be blessed in that way. Yeah. Because maybe they didn't. honor God in my eyes the way that I thought they should. And so I struggled, there was a season of struggling with disappointment, anger, shame, all of those things.

And the Lord had to do some work on me in that time. And so we ended up in a few years ago going through IVF and then having another miscarriage even in that. And it was painful, you know. And so through that process, we did end up conceiving. It wasn't, it didn't look like how I thought. What does that mean? Meaning I thought, well, I wanted to have a child when I first got married.

I was married at 29. My husband was 30. you know, we were young now. I'm chasing today, I'm chasing a two-year-old around at I'll be 44 next week. Yeah. You know, and. People think you lying, but she just looked. She just looks good at all.

Yeah. Thank you, Lord. But I didn't expect that. That wasn't what was in my life plan or, you know, back on the back-in-a-day vision board, you know. And so, yeah, but God needed to do some work. on my heart, I guess, through that process. And I had to unlearn some unhealthy views and theology

about how I view God at the time. Give me one of them. Believing that my faith is able to produce everything that I want. You know? Wow. Somebody would say, now what you're saying now, Jen? because when we look at the Gospels, we got Jesus saying, and your faith made you well.

Yes. Right. And so how did you work through the tension of, I see you doing all the things for people because of faith. Yes. And I have faith. Right. But it ain't working for me.

I had to understand and learn about the sovereignty of God. And also that he wants us to have faith, but also it is his will be done, not my will. That's good. And so I had to learn that piece like, okay, God, you want me to have faith in who you are and know, and we know that you can do this. I know that you can open my womb. I know that you can give me a child, but I needed to get to the place of, but God, what is your perfect will? and to be okay with his perfect will,

not looking like what I expected for it to look like. And that was hard. And in my book I talk about, and I try to give space and room for people to lament the heart. That's good. To know that it's okay to go through a season of, you know, this is hard and sorrow with it, but I'm going to hope in who you are and trust that whatever you have for me is good.

And what I had to learn was actually to read a lot of scriptures in context. So there were a lot of passages that we are all familiar with, like, be anxious for nothing. You know, which is proverb, not proverbs, it's Philippians 4, be anxious for nothing. And so I remember reading that. Well, initially, before reading that, that, that was. would be the text I would use to kind of beat myself up. And I'm anxious for everything. I'm anxious for everything.

Every moment. Right? Or fear not, you know, which is the most common command in the text. But it's interesting when you read it in context because Philippians 4, verse 4 says, rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again, rejoice. Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near.

Verse 6, do not be anxious about anything, but in everything. contrasting, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your request to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ. This text is so important. So one of the things I had to realize was, I don't know how to cast my cares. I had heard that. But in practice, I didn't know exactly what that meant. for me, that began to look like, okay, Lord, I'm feeling anxious. I know that you're in control. I don't have the resources needed in order to handle any of this that I'm concerned about. Yeah. But I know that you do. And so I am going to appeal to you in my anxiety. So, Lord, I feel like a panic attack is coming on. I know that you're in control of me. You're able to help me. You're able to deal with me gently.

and so I'm going to cast these cares over to you in prayer and petition. And then it says with Thanksgiving. Uh-huh, that part. Which was really important. Because what happens is anxiety, it causes you to forget. That's good. Thanksgiving helps you remember. Yeah.

It helps you remember who your God is. It helps you remember how he's brought you through in the midst of your difficulty. That's good. And then it says, with Thanksgiving, present your request to go. God and the peace of God. What's interesting about that word anxious, it actually means to be divided, to be pulled apart in different directions. But then he says, and the peace of God, that word for peace means to tie together all the parts. Come on somebody. Come on, Lord. Teach this now. So what God is saying, and the reason I believe that there's so many

commands about do not fear, which we take, we forget, because I am with you, we forget the context of those passages is because God knew that there would be a lot of things that are scary in this world. Wow. Yeah. And the point is, I'm going to be with you. That you can ask me for what you need. Right? That's really good. So, yeah. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your heart and your mind in Christ. Would you say, I have my own answer. Would you say that peace comes immediately? Hmm, you know what I would say? Peace is a person. Peace is a person.

Because it's not about the circumstances. You might be trembling. You might be afraid, but who are you holding on to in the midst of it? Who's with you in the midst of it? That's good. Emmanuel, God with us. That, to me, is what made all the difference in my anxiety. Because the reality is when I drive, there might be.

be another deer. Yeah. Peace can't look circumstantial. Because there might be another deer. There may be something worse in my life. Jesus. So what am I going to do? It has to be who's with me, that even if another deer comes, I serve the God who's over

the deer. I serve the God who's over cancer. I serve the God who can provide your practical needs, right? Who can give you food. Come on. He's our provider. And so realizing who. Who is with us?

And that's the trembling. That's the awe. Yeah. That's the fear of the Lord that is also important for us as believers. That's the picture we see when the storm comes, you know? Like, their circumstance, God didn't make that circumstance change. The storm was still there. But God is like, if I'm sleeping on this boat, y'all should be resting too.

That's right. Because I'm with you. Yeah, I think, I'm trying to be balanced. I think. I think we have a hard time with the intersection between like faith and lament, faith and struggle with faith, faith, and doubt, and how all of these things can coexist at the same time and yet still be reverent. Right?

Like, I can be struggling with faith and it not be unbelief. Yeah. Do you understand what I'm saying? So unbelievable, like, I'm trying to think of these two texts. I am not used to this Bible. I need my Bible, bro. Can I see, you got a Bible? So I don't know where my ESB Bible. Ooh, Jesus. You know, Nabae, kiss you, my car, y'all, nobody. That's what kind of Bible this is. Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. Is it Psalms 2-4? No. So you have two situations where, like you have Sarah in Genesis where a word is given that she will have a baby and she laughs, that she'll have Isaac, I believe. Yeah, that she'll have Isaac and she laughs. And that is accredit to her as unbelief, that she doubts the Lord. then you have Mary who asks the question of when she hears from the angel that she will give birth to a son and she is like how will this be but it's a credit to her as faith but she's asking these questions not out of doubt but out of a wrestle out of a curiosity that's rooted in a reverence for I know you can do it I'm just wondering how Sarah is like no I just actually don't believe you're going to do that because I've been waiting this long and you haven't done it thus far.

And so I think from the outside looking in, sometimes we can see wrestling and assume that all wrestling is irreverence. And that's not the case. And so I think in both cases, we see evidences that some wrestling is reverence, some wrestling is irreverence. And so that's what I'm saying. As I think in the church sometimes we are assuming that all struggle is sinful struggle. And that's not true. That's good. That's good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I used to be super, I'm really glad you made that distinction because I used to be

super discouraged. And I kind of felt like, especially in that season, that I had no room to ever express that this is hard, that I'm surrounded around so many people that I feel like I'm forced to love that don't love me at all. What do you mean? Because at that season of my life, I had transitioned out of the church. And I felt like it was so much slander, so much, you know, like gossip against me or whatever. And I'm still trying to be a Christian. And I love God.

And I identify with, you know, the audio that you play. Like, it's not like I doubt his word. I just doubt everybody around me. It's super discouraging. And so I think making that distinct, you know, distinguishing the two. And also letting us know, no, no, there is a proper place. for us to lament to mourn, you know, to grieve. And we shouldn't always have to feel like we're not believers because we choose to do so.

Yeah. And what I hear in, what something she said that is very significant is that she doesn't like that there is no room for numbness in the Christian faith like there is in the world. I actually think that that is a major part of what makes Christianity hard. What do you mean by that? Because in Christianity, you have to endure suffering. In the world, you can cope. For example, in the world, when stuff get hard, I could go distract myself with something.

I can get in a relationship to distract myself, like a sinful relationship and distract myself. I can have an idolatious situation and distract myself. I could drink the bottle all the way to the dregs and distract myself. I smoked blunts every single hour on the hour to distract myself. You can pull up pornographic images to get that shot of dopamine to distract yourself. But then when you become a Christian, you have all of these laws and then you have these convictions. Then you have this conscience where the Lord is like, that's in, that's in, that's in, that's in, that's sin, that's sin. And so now the things that you turn to as coping mechanisms are sin. And so now

when things get hard, now God wants you to trust him. And put those things in death. And in trusting him, it doesn't mean that he, like, he's a refuge, but it doesn't mean that he won't take the bad feelings away as you wait on him. If the worst thing happens, it won't break you. And by break you, I don't mean it won't weaken you. If I break you, I don't mean it won't humble you, won't hurt you, won't grieve you. But if it happens, he's with you in it. And I think that's the thing.

I know for me, I think I am often, I don't want to feel bad feelings. Yeah. I don't, if my children die, I don't want the grief that comes with the death. Yes. So I'm anxious because I'm afraid of what that will do to me. But that is where we share in his sufferings.

Yes. Right? And so it's like sometimes I think the worst thing cannot be, the worst thing that can happen only becomes the worst thing that can happen if God leaves. Right. If he abandons you, that's right. And it is in fact the worst thing that happens. But if he is with you, it is not the worst thing that can happen.

That's right. Absolutely. And that's so important because so many people who deal, who are believers, who deal with anxiety, they feel like God is not with them. Because I'm anxious because what we've done is we've pitted sinful fear, against religious fear. Wow. So we say, if you are struggling with worry or sinful worry,

then you must not be fearing God. And that's not always the case. So you could be, because then that's why I open up this category of also natural fear, right? So you might be dealing with these physiological symptoms, but you're inserting that in the text. So when you see be anxious for nothing, you thinking, oh, well, that's my panic attack.

Paul wasn't talking about your panic attack. He wasn't talking about that. And so when you believe that there's only sinful fear and religious fear, then you condemn yourself. You're left only to condemn yourself because you're like, I'm not fearing God. But for the believer, nothing will separate you from the love of God. There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ. We have to hold on to the truth about what God says about us because of his son. And so because of what Christ has accomplished on the cross, because of what he accomplished through the resurrection, we're trusting in him.

We're now unified in him. That's great. And so even though we're dealing with suffering here, like you said, we're suffering now with Christ. It's a different thing. And also, I think it's important for believers to not be afraid of death. We're not supposed to be afraid of death. Now, if I'm honest, and I was honest, of course, in the book, like, I remember during that season, I was afraid to die. And I was trying to reconcile that with my faith.

Why am I afraid to die when the scripture says to die is gain, you know, and having to wrestle with God. And ultimately, it was me landing on who's with me. If the worst thing happens in my life, I'm not going to be alone. Wow. Whatever my greatest fear is, cancer, right? My husband dies. My children die. I die.

God is going to be with me. And that makes all the difference, right? That makes all the difference. And so we have to make sure that we remember who's there. Remember our God is there. And then we have a community through the body of Christ that's there. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

So if you're a parent and you're discouraged, it's like, this child is so difficult, I've lost the courage to feel like my parenting will even produce any fruit in their life. If you're discouraged in your marriage, I've lost the courage to feel like God is going to continue to work with our broken pieces. If you feel discouraged in your mental health, you've lost the courage to continue to believe that God is going to heal those wounds and heal those traumas. If you feel discouraged in your workplace, you feel, you feel, you feel feel like God has forgotten about you and doesn't see you. And so you just going through the nine to five, you just hear and you're just invisible. Like you just lose courage. And that courage

is like you, I think even if you have a visual image, it's like your, your head is down, your back is bent, you feel low. You know what I'm saying? Like, and it affects the way you pray. because when I'm discouraged, I become the person James warns against where you pray, but you don't even pray with faith anymore. So you're going through the motions. I know I'm supposed to pray, but I'm not even praying with faith. And so I don't even know if the Lord is hearing me

when I'm doing what I'm supposed to do because I'm a Christian, so I'm going to pray with faith. But it's like, why am I praying if I've been praying, and I don't feel like you're responding? Because truthfully, sometimes we lost hope, sometimes we walk in discouragement because I was praying for this thing and it felt like you weren't answering me. And so I just, I don't want to be disappointed by you anymore.

Yeah. Yeah. God. Yeah. And so I'm discouraged by you. Yeah. Yeah. And I think one thing that we have to remember, and it's hard.

And I'm speaking to myself right now, is that God, actually can deal with our honesty. Yeah, he can't. He can deal with our honesty. He can deal with us saying, God, I don't trust you in this season. God, I've been praying for this for so long. And it's like, you don't hear me. You don't see me.

And I think in those moments, God just had to remind me, like, so many times that I, like, you have to consistently meditate on my word. And it's not like you're not going through things That people haven't went through in the Bible Time and time again When they felt like I didn't see them But I saw Zakias by the Sycamore tree I saw the disciples when they was in the house afraid

Because they thought they was about to be crucified like me I saw them I saw the woman who had the issue of blood Who cried out for years and years and years to be healed I saw the man at the pool of Pithesma Who came to this pool What did it was? What is it called

It again Pothasma And that's what it's called. I ain't going to say it. What is it called? Just correct me. Bethesda. Yeah.

You know what I'm talking about. I know. But like he went to this. The Lord saw you. The Lord saw me. You know, he went to this pool every single day. Mm-hmm. For years.

For years. It's like, and so it's like, what's happening in your life, it's not like, it's not indicative to so many people that was put here before us. But here's, here's, here's the anchor. Okay, because I, oh, Godly, I understand. You got a, what was that, God, Lee? I understand. Oh, I thought you had the boo-boo.

No, I understand the weariness of waiting. Yeah. I get that. I understand the confusion and the incongruence between you are good, and it doesn't feel like you're being good to me. I understand that. And even feeling like, Lord, I don't even want to send. against you and being that honest with you.

Right? So you're thinking that people who are dealing with discouragement of waiting on the Lord, you feel like they might feel like they are sinning because their honesty with the Lord is so. I think some people, I think some people are afraid to be honest because they don't want to sin against God in their speech. I think Job was being really careful with God in his discourse with God about that. Like, Lord, like, I'm just, I'm just say this. Like, I'm trying to be careful.

You know what I'm saying? I think some people are like that. But I think there also is a tension where it's like you're big, you're almighty, you're strong. And so I also know that if you're not answering the door after I knocked 10 times, you've got to be up to something. Yeah, you got to be doing something. And so I'm just simply saying at what point you're going to let me know what you're up to. Yeah. Right?

So I'm just saying there's just tension all around. I'm empathizing. But I'm saying on the other side, what anchors even the knowledge that God sees these people is Bible. You get what I'm saying. And so what discouragement does is that discouragement, this is the snare of discouragement. Please hear me when I say this.

Discouragement and I am saying this from a place of experience and from a knowledge of scripture, discouragement makes us self-oriented. Discouragement turns you in on yourself. Discouragement makes you think about what you're going through, makes you introspective about your feelings, makes you interrogate yourself, makes you feel like it turns you in on yourself so much

that you do stop considering your neighbor, you stop thinking about the word, because you become cynical about this book. Yeah. You do, and so you stop reading it. That's good. That's good, that. You stop reading it.

And so even if you don't understand how none of this applies to your circumstances, at the very least, just search it for God's character. That's so good. Just search it for his nature. Yeah. So it's like, look at his name. I was reading Psalm 136 the other day. You know what I'm saying?

Where this is the biggest, is this the biggest Bible you have? That's the Bible I'll read when I'm on the back patio. I bet. you can put this on the ground and see it. It has good study notes. No, you can put this on the ground to see it from the deck. It says really good study notes. Well, you could give me a smaller.

No, you don't need it. This is one in the Bible you bought. You're almost 40. You don't need no glasses. The shade. You don't need nothing. I can sit 10 feet tall and see this thing. Psalm 136.

Give thanks to the Lord for he is good for his steadfast love endures forever. Give thanks to the God of God's for his. steadfast love endures forever. Give thanks to the Lord of Lords for his steadfast love indoors forever. To him who alone does great wonders for his steadfast love endorsed forever. To him who by understanding made though the heavens for his stead... That's all the psalmist does is a refrain for his steadfast love and doors forever. So imagine, imagine you're going through a trial. You've been going through a trial for a year, two years, three years, four years, five years, and you cannot see your way out. You do not understand what God is doing. He is not speaking to you.

He is not giving you answer. He is not giving you dreams. You ain't got no prophetic words. You ain't encouraged. You don't know what's happening, but you land on a text like this. Psalms 136. And all you do for the next two days is meditate that his steadfast love, meaning his love don't change, meaning his love don't shift meaning, his love ain't wishy-washy.

His steadfast love endures forever meaning. Whatever he's doing, I know that he loves me. That's good. Whatever he's doing, I know that his love is steadfast. Whatever he's doing, he is loving me forever and forever. You can't tell me that your hope won't raise a little bit. That's good. That's what I mean.

It's like in these kinds of trials, if you don't do nothing, you have to stay in your word. And you ain't even got to look at the, you ain't even got to look at the Hebrew, the Greek. Sometimes you don't even got the energy for that. There's sometimes you ain't got the energy for no cross references. You ain't got the energy for no study notes and not. Just meditation on God's goodness. If you got one sentence, there's been times I only got energy for, I got energy for two verses. Yeah.

That's all I got. I get you two verses, Father. Even if you got to read Romans, I think 8 and 18, that the sufferings of this present time is not worthy to be compared to the glory that shall be revealed in me in Christ Jesus. Like, just meditating or 1 Peter 12, like, do not be surprised at the Farie Dawes when it comes upon you to test you. It's so something with strangers happening in you. But rejoice insofar as you're sharing Christ's sufferings. I have to consistently remind myself of these scriptures oftentimes because what you said is so true that our suffering and our discouragement can make us so inwardly looking. And that's the reason why I know seasons, I feel the loneliest.

And it's not because I am lonely. I'm actually surrounded around people who love me. I'm just thinking about me so much that I feel lonely. You're not lonely, but your situation has made you so inrivolve. looking that you feel lonely because all you have done all day is entertain your thoughts, your discouragements, how you feel, how you don't have the morale to get up. So you feel lonely because you actually haven't done life with the people that God has put around you.

Because you also being lied to. Let's be clear. And that's what you were doing to me? Let's be clear. Y'all do that growing up in black church. You're also being lied to. You're talking good. The Bible says in Hebrews.

Expose to devil. It says, exhort one of the. another, exhort one another, encourage one another, build up one another, edify one another, every day, every day, every day, while today is today. Yeah, come on. Talk to us. So that you will not be hardened, hardened by the deceitfulness, deceitfulness, deception of sin. Teach us with your little pretty face. Even make up. Come on now. Meaning you have to be in community. Community. because somebody, meaning the devil, the world, and the flesh will lie to you.

Yeah. If you are not around people to help you not lie to your own self. And like, you will lie to your own self and the devil will lie to you. And so you got to be around people who will edification. Edification is not merely just gas. Yeah. It's not gas. It's also like, I get it, bro.

You are discouraged, but like it's also truth tell it. Every single because of seeing, because we live in a, fallen world, all of humanity is going to suffer. What Peter is letting us know is, if you are going to suffer, suffer as a Christian. Don't suffer like that. Because at the end of their suffering is hell. At the end of our suffering is glory. Heck yeah. That's what he's saying. So he said, don't suffer now and then suffer more for all of eternity. He's saying, no, suffer as a Christian so that you also may share in God's glory forever. That's what he's saying.

And so I think that we have to consistently, and I think this is what the scripture meant when it says, you know, I recognize that the sufferings of this present time is not worthy to be compared to the glory that shall be revealed in us in Christ Jesus. That we have to consistently remind ourselves, know, like how Galatian says, we will reap a harvest. But we also have to remind ourselves that, no, this suffering, we should be taken back by it.

we should also remind ourselves then no, God is setting up eternity for us. Yeah, I noticed something interesting where it says, so we do not lose heart. Ooh, think about that. Think about what? Think about the mental image.

We don't lose heart, heart, heart, courage. Yeah. We don't lose heart, though our outer self is wasting away. Our inner self is being renewed by day. Catch this. For this light, momentary affliction. Light momentary affliction I'm gonna say it again

So we get in our spirits Light that's a kind of weight Momentary that's related to time Affliction is preparing for us An eternal weight of glory Beyond all comparison That's such a good Your affliction

Your affliction has weight It just isn't as heavy as glory Did you catch it? Oh my call it Your affliction has weight is just not as heavy as glory. Yeah, he's basically saying the same thing. Paul is saying in Romans. Like literally, like it's not worthy to be compared.

But if you want to compare it, what's coming in comparison to what you're going through is heavier than what you're going through. And so the weight of what, so it's like the weight of your depression, the glory will be heavier. The weight of your anxiety, the glory will be heavier. The weight of your betrayal, the glory will be heavier. will be heavier. The weight of, do you get what I'm saying? So when you start to look at it that way,

it starts to be like, huh, I'm being prepared for something that's heavy. Yeah, yeah, it's like, to me, that prepares me to be like, oh, I can endure this then. Yeah, it's like if you're absolutely confident that you're going to live in a $17 million mansion, if you was just endure living in this little hut for two years.

It's like, that's not, like, this hut is hard, but it ain't worth comparing to the fact that I'm going to have this, I'm looking forward to this, this, this huge mansion that I'm going to live in for my life. I don't even know if it's going to be, I don't, I don't, I don't, I'm just trying to like make, make, yeah, yeah, like, like the fact that he, they use that contrast is so encouraging because it's, it's not worth, it's not worth comparing, you know, that's dope. But if you do compare, it's heavier. It is very heavier. My second point is James. I think we probably have listeners who are like, yeah, I actually ain't going to do nothing. So.

I ain't doing nothing, I ain't weary, I'm at the home chairing. My life is just fine. Praise God. James says in chapter 5 verse 13, is anyone among you suffering, let him pray. Is anyone cheerful, let him sing praise? I think for you that applies. If you are cheerful, praise God. If you are suffering, then pray.

I think my wisdom would be many are the afflictions. of the righteous. If you are righteous, affliction is coming. And so that means that this, this podcast can work for you in two directions. One, it can be a preparation for you. This is what you put in your pocket for when affliction comes. Two, this podcast can be a means of intercession for you for the people in your lives that are suffering. There is somebody in your circle. There is somebody in your church who is weary, who is discouraged. And so you can take some of the tools, some of the words, some of the scriptures that we gave and you can pass it along or you can use it as a means to pray for your community. And so I wouldn't take this and be like, oh, yeah, I'm cool.

I'm straight. I ain't got to do nothing. This ain't got nothing to do with me. No. Use it as a means to one, prepare yourself and to serve somebody else. Yeah, that's really good. So when the scripture talks about the beginning of wisdom is the fear of the Lord, that means that God has to to be prioritized as first in our life. And we have to fight for that. Yeah. That God be on the throne. And we don't believe that I'm on the throne or even someone else is on the throne.

Because I think that fear of man is when we place someone else on the throne, their truth becomes the capital T truth. Yeah. And God's truth is, you know, is tucked away somewhere. Yeah. What does it look like to hold God's word and value it, right? As greater than gold, greater than treasure, sweeter than honey. and say, God, I'm going to spend time meditating, even if it's at night. So one of the things I do, I'll take one verse and at night just continue to rehearse that

verse, repeat that verse again and again until I fall asleep. That's just a practical way. Or listening to sermons throughout the day. I'm doing dishes. I'm running errands. You can listen to truth being communicated. Listen to songs and hymns and spiritual songs being communicated throughout the day. And so setting your life up, organizing your life in such a way that truth is around you.

That's great. Yeah. Yeah, that's in convincing because I think we just don't give ourselves time to meditate on the things that's good. That made me think about that verse differently. Because as I started to look at it, I was like, because one thing Americans, and it might just be human, is we are addicted to efficiency. And so we think, think on these things. think I'm going to think on it right now and it should produce this fruit right now.

Yeah. Versus of just saturating your mind throughout your day so that you can't help but think on these things. That's right. Does it make sense? Because it's transforming. You're creating a culture. Yeah, it's supposed to change you over time.

And a lot of times we want to microwave instead of, instead of bake, you know, like how the scriptures want to transform us from the inside out. And I want to honor something you said that I think we don't talk about enough in like Christian conversations is kind of natural means of peace. Yeah. And so during the summertime, I realized spring and summer, you know, I realized I need to get out of the house. Yeah. It's very simple. So I started to get up every morning, get the kids together, get their breakfast, da-da-da-da, and sit on the porch because I realized exposure to the sun helped.

me to have a little more peace. It was something about being in the house all day that made me more anxious, made me more prone to the house. I was like, oh, my guy. I said, I just need to go outside. That's right. Some of us just need to walk.

Yeah. It's real. It's true. That's right. And also just, I think people, this might seem small, but I think it's actually way bigger than what we think.

Like, it's like, meditating on God's nature and sitting amongst God's creation will probably bring me more peace. Absolutely. You know, because it's like, you know, during a pandemic, a person who I cannot stay in the house, she knows that.

And I had COVID and I literally thought, and I was trapped in that. We put him in the office. Okay. And I said, I said, I'm starting to be depressed. I'm starting to think about all the things that happened wrong in my life. I want to see my kids.

I want to be in the bed with my wife and I want to grab her and just hold her and all the stuff. I just feel lonely. I just felt lonely. I just felt lonely. And Jackie was like, go fishing.

I was like, you can't affect them. I was like, you can't go off on them all day left. I was like, I can go to the lake. And I'm telling you, I experienced the joy of the Lord in the way, I mean, I was like, this is, this is so genius. Thank you. been telling me to go to the lake.

And that's when I started to realize, no, God actually, like, created the world beautiful. He literally created water and trees and the birds to sing to us. Like, like, take advantage of all the things that God created. Because I used to talk about, shout out to all the white people that have no problem laying in grass. I used to look at y'all like, what are y'all doing? Now I covered it. Get him land and the guy in the Lord's grass. Because growing it up in the hood, we'd be like, we go outside.

We're trying to go to the store. We play. Not, but when people be like, you need to go out and touch grass, you sure do. Yes, it means of grace. Right. It is. Yeah, we didn't have grass in the hood. I know.

Y'all did. Not that way. Y'all had concrete. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. So that's, I mean, it seems small, but it's actually, God has given us so much around us to give us.

That's right. I think in closing, I would love for you, because we have so many different kinds of listeners. We have. We got students. We got mothers, fathers, we got pastors. We have new believers, older believers. I just want you to exhort the person who even as they listen are anxious. Yeah.

And so my encouragement to you right where you are is to know that God can be with you right there. If you do not know him, you can call out to him today so that you can have a relationship with him. And if you do know him, know that all of your fears, all of your cares, all of your concerns, you know, he's concerned with you, that he loves you. It's beautiful when you think of Jesus who came to earth, took on flesh. And right in the garden of the Gephimany, it talks about him sweating blood. And he did that for us. He sweated blood, right?

A physiological response, knowing I'm going to bear the wrath of God for you. all because I love you so much. And so consider your God. Consider God, right? The Potter, the creator, the one who is above all else and submit to him, right? Be drawn near to him. And so that is my encouragement. That's good. Everyone, yeah, we were made to tremble before him. That's good. That's so good. Do you mind praying? Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Let's pray. Oh man, dear Lord, I thank you, Father, for this topic, this conversation. I knew this conversation was important, but having this conversation, it just kind of put it in words how important it is because we live in a fallen,

broken world. There's so much to worry about, it seems. But what we've consistently said, what Blair have consistently said, is that peace is a person. And so, God, would you help us, not just, just us, but the listener, to focus on the person, that we would gaze on the beauty of Christ and to know that we serve a great high priest who was able to sympathize with our weakness because he became man like us. But because he was sinless, unlike us, we have a help. And we can run to the throne of grace for help. And so, God, I just pray for the listener. I pray God that they would

not run to the bottle or sex or marijuana or even people. I pray God that they will run to you, that they will run to your throne. I pray God at their throne, you will meet them there and you will commune and dying with them there. I pray, Father, for the unbeliever listening to this who's carrying so many burdens and weights. I pray, God, that you would just show them that your burdens are light and your yoke is easy. And so God, I just stand. And so God, I just stand. Thank you, God, for your love and your care for us. And I just pray, God, that we would continue to look on the person of Jesus Christ for our peace and comfort. We love you.

We thank you. We believe you in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen. With the Perrys is produced by the Perrys with support from Amanda Reed and Channing McBride. Video recording and audio production by Matthew Baxter and Xavier Fairley. Edited by the team at Tread Libely. Artwork by Hop.

Thank you for listening. Now go with God.