With The Perrys - Emotional Idolatry (With The Perrys Podcast Tour)

Episode Date: September 9, 2024

You know the word ‘emotional’ – we’ve all got feelings – and you’ve heard the term ‘idolatry.’ But it’s rare that we hear the two words as a phrase together. Emotions are not wrong ��� having them is evidence that we’re created in the image of God. But if we’re not careful, emotions can dictate our world and realities instead of God’s truth.   This week’s episode is a segment from the With The Perrys 2024 podcast tour. The NYC audience was polled for a topic they wanted to hear about and “emotional idolatry” was their pick. We’ve brought this conversation to the podcast feed for everyone to enjoy.   Subscribe to the Perrys' newsletter: https://withtheperrys.myflodesk.com/zhfus4jx1s Join Preston's discipleship community for men: https://www.patreon.com/PrestonPerry/membership To support the work of the Perrys, donate via PayPal: https://paypal.me/withtheperrys Shop BOLD Apparel: boldapparel.shop Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's up, y'all? This is Preston Perry. And right now you're about to listen to the emotional idolatry episode from the podcast tour with me and my beautiful wife. Hope you enjoy. Peace. y'all want to hear about emotional idolatry so usually you you've heard the term emotional we know about feelings we've heard the term idolatry but it's rare that we hear both words used together okay so when you hear the phrase emotional idolatry what comes to your mind good question i put up a quote can i read this quote before i answer it? I just saw my living room and just, you know, feel like I was at home for five seconds. This is a quote from John Piper. John Piper says this, and I think it's fitting. He said, my feelings are not God. He said, God is God. My feelings do not define truth. God's word defines truth. My feelings are echoes and responses to what my mind perceives. And sometimes,

many times, my feelings are not in sync with the truth. When that happens and it happens every day, in some measure. I try not to bend the truth to justify my imperfect feelings, but rather I plead with God, purify my perceptions of your truth, and transform my feelings so they are in sync with the truth.

And I think that's a good quote because I think I think what he's essentially saying is that emotions are not wrong, right? The fact that we have emotions is evidence that we're created in the image of God, right? We have the ability to be sad because

God gets grieved. We have the ability to get angry because God gets mad, right? We have the ability to rejoice because God gets happy. But I do think that emotional idolatry plays comes into play when our emotions in some way becomes like our functional savior, when it sits on the seat of our hearts. And when we sought to dictate our world, our realities based on how we feel in our God's truth. I think that's when it becomes, because idolatry is something that replaces the Lord. And a lot of times what we feel kind of trumps truth. And God wants to define truth for us, not our emotions. Does that make sense? Yes. I think the difficult thing, though, about emotions is that they're complex. Because a lot of times people will say, you know, your emotions don't

dictate reality, but sometimes they do. And I think that's why emotions have to be interrogated, Right. So like, for example, if I put my hand on the stove and I burn myself and I cry, my emotion is reflective of something that actually happened, right? So that is reality. I think the problem is when you might have, the problem might be when you move with fear and pain and harm all the time where there is actually no fire. So there's this level in which like emotions can be communicating something that is real and true. And yet at the same time, it also might be communicating something that's an illusion. That's good. And so that's why we have to ask questions of our emotions. That's a really good distinction. They're complex. Because I think an example, a really practical example,

we can use your life as a parable because we like to do that. Oh my gosh. Okay. So we had a situation in L.A. a couple weeks ago. Oh, boy. Where I ain't going to say you wanted to fight the man, but you ain't want to hug him. Right?

I wanted to hug him with my fist. Okay, man of God. That's not good. But I understand. No, no. Can I tell y'all what happened? We family? Y'all ain't going to judge me.

I just saw phones go up, so they're ready. So we had our first show of this tour in L.A., two shows back to back. And because L.A. is like on the other side of the world, we didn't fly there. We didn't take the bus there. We flew there, right? And so because I knew our first shows was going to be in L.A., what I did was I went there two months, two and a half months prior. And I told myself, I'll say, I'm going to go there, get my merch made by a guy who lives out there who makes my merch, right?

When I get there, the day of the show, the guy who makes my merch tells me, I'm getting mad thinking about it right now. You can feel your feelings here. I get mad at it's my thing about this. He tells me that half of my merch is not made, the day of my show. I have two shows in the LA, half of my merch is not made. And so me, I'm trying not to get angry. I'm trying not to be like, like, because we're FaceTime in each other, right? I'm trying not to like show anger on my face and trying to like, you know,

remember that Jesus died on the cross from my stance, all the Christian stuff. But in my mind, I'm like, so I just ask a simple question, bro, why didn't you tell me that my merch was not made? Communication. If you would have told me, I would have made the provisions. Yeah, we could work through that. Yeah, yeah. He responds and says, what do you want me to do better, Preston? He gave me the shoulder truck.

Do the shimmy. Do the shimmy. He said, what do you want me to do? It's like, Preston. The shimmy is crazy. And I said, bro, are you really getting the attitude with me when you do want to drop the ball? And then he proceeded to curse at me. What did he say?

What do he say? That's what I said. What do he say? Because I'll be wanting details. I need you to know, like, tell me what they said, what they look like. I can't. I can't say what he said. Do they have a wig?

Did they have four braids? What was it? I can't say what he said. Because if I say what he said, it's about five bishops in here. ready to rebuke me. I'm sorry. But he said a couple curse words at me. Okay.

I wanted to fight dude. Right. Because one, I felt like, bro, like, you get mad at me when I didn't do anything. You did. You committed injustice towards me, right? So I said some stuff to him. I wasn't all the way, golly. I just basically thought I said, buddy, pipe down, Bucco.

Like, I'm from the south side of Chicago. Like, pipe down. Like, pipe down. And I go in a green room. So Jackie has this thing when I'm mad. She has this thing. She speaks very calmly and she just asks these questions that really irritate me. In the moment, she said, husband, did you pray?

Because the Bible says a soft answer turns away wrath. But in my mind, I'm like, I don't want to pray. Ooh, that's a manifestation. But the Lord had to show me, though, the Lord had to show me is that, like, that in those moments when I'm feeling what I'm feeling, Like, if I'm honest with myself, sitting in my anger actually comforts me more than the Lord. Right? I think that's what emotional idolatry is.

When our anger and our fear or whatever, we find comfort in that instead of running to the one who is the source of all comfort. Right? And so I didn't want to pray because, and also, too, my anger towards him was also my anger towards him was also my, my form of justice. But God, he wants to give me ultimate justice, right? Right? And so like, and then too, this is the kicker because I'm a sin, I'm a sinful person, right? I'm saved, but I'll be sinning sometimes. You know what I'm trying to say. I didn't think that he deserved my grace. Like, I didn't think that he deserves my grace. And I, yeah, and so, like, Like even apologizing to him was hard because it's like, oh, dude, don't think I'm weak if I apologize, you know.

And so I think the Lord had to show me, no, no, no, no. You're trusting in your anger more than you're trusting in me. That's emotional acknowledgement. Because that's what I mean by emotions being complex and having some basis in reality and then sometimes some basis and illusion because you're made in the image of God, as you said, right? And so you do have a justice orientation. And so like that was an injustice towards you. And so your anger was a fairer.

was a fair and legitimate response to somebody sitting against you, right? But the problem came when you wanted to vindicate yourself instead of entrusting yourself to the Lord. And like Jesus, I think is a good example of this because the Bible says like, when Jesus was reviled, he did not revile in return for he entrusted himself to the one who judges justly. And so Jesus's ability not to get his own vengeance was by proxy of his faith in the Lord who would judge for him eventually. It's the eventually that we don't lie. Because God's justice doesn't move at the pace that we would like it to. That's good.

Like I would like God to like throw them hands today. But God, most likely for some of our enemies and offenses, he won't throw them hands until judgment day. And so we got to wait, right? But here's the other gag. It's like Christianity is set up in such a way where God is often putting us in place. positions to look weak even though we're being strong.

That's good. Right? Like to forgive somebody and to let go on the fence makes you think you think I'm weak. Right? But it actually took courage and strength and prayer and to even get there. But the crazy thing is we talked about Philippians 2-5 and earlier. That's all, that's what Jesus is displaying. Jesus is displaying that, no, I was God and I humbled myself and became a man, right?

I literally chose weakness to lead y'all, right? Think about God. Like, a lot of times we don't meditate on the fact that God became man. The same God who created water had to depend on water to give him life every single day, which is crazy. And so we be afraid of apologizing to people. When God literally came. Because it's hard. It is.

I be like, am I that sinful where I can't say sorry? Like, you know what I'm saying? My question to you, though, is, are you still mad at him? Why you got to do that? Because we need part two. You know what I'm saying? So here's the thing. It's giving you are.

When people start breathing and things, it's like... So I'm mad that the people didn't get their merch. Not only that, like, he even, like, the stuff that he gave me, it was wrong. Yeah, y'all feel me? I feel so vindicated when y'all. Y'all love y'all. Y'all, like, justifying me not forgiving him all the way. Like, I'll keep doing it.

Because he gave me, I had a hat that said, tell the truth, shame the devil. Tell me why the devil was missing. It said, the devil was gone. Shame the. Yeah. I say, are you working with the devil? Like, why is the devil missing?

No, the devil, the devil was there. He just wasn't on the hat. Right. And we don't know where it was. And so, no, no. To answer your question, I, I did, I think I did forgive him. You think, you don't know. You got to go pray about it.

He still got me messed up a little bit, though. So, here's, I'm working through it. Here's my question. I'm still mad. And the thing is, y'all, I didn't say this. He's a Muslim. And so for like seven, I've been working with this dude off and on for seven years. I was trying to lead him to Christ for like for the last seven years.

Not that day. I was trying to try to lead him that day. I'm trying to lead him with them hands. Here's. Here's the question. How does somebody work through filling some type of way about somebody that they don't have the luxury to get away from?

Because y'all had your situation on FaceTime, and you went on about your day, right? But what happens when there is still present emotions of anger and you work with the person, or you lay next to the person, or you go to church with the person, like, clearly it's a person.

right now words for somebody. Well, she said me. It's for me. I feel like all y'all thinking about your spouses, because I feel like that'd be the okay, y'all, your coworkers? She's like, I'm going to beat my coworker up tomorrow.

No, I think leading with honesty is one way. Because I think one, I think we're uncomfortable with conflict. I think that's one of the reasons why we don't have peace amongst people that we're around.

We're mad, but we don't want to say while we're mad and we don't want to talk about it, right? Because I think a lot of times the way we try to get peace is we try to, like, we keep settling for like temporary peace. Like I'm going to avoid her this day. I'm going to avoid him this day. But it's like, no, like I think that the Lord wants us to grow up and to sit down and say, this is the reason why I don't like you. No, no, no, serious. Like, you don't got to be mean about it. It's like, you make me feel some type of way, bro.

How to tell the truth. Like, how to tell the truth. And I'm not trying to attack you, but I don't have peace when I'm around you. You're draining. Can we talk about it? And if they don't have the emotional and the spiritual maturity to handle that, that's their problem. But I think God honors people who are honest.

Yeah. And I think God honors people who are honest for the sake of, for the sake of the relationship. And not only, it's not just for people, but it's like, God, honest that because it's like, no, I want to please you, Lord. Like, every time I see this person, I don't like your image bearer. I know you don't like that. So, like, I feel like God honest honesty. And so be honest, lead with your humility, leave with your honesty, and yeah, be honest. I think sometimes we still feel anger because we're still meditating on the offense, right? And so we're still feeling the emotions because we haven't decided to think on something good or something pure or namely the cross,

right? But I also think that there's the potential that the emotion of anger is still present because we haven't worked through some type of plan on how to move forward, right? So for example, we realize that like in our marriage, there are, what do you call that? Love languages, but there's also apology languages. Pressing's apology language. Pressing's apology language. is all he want to hear is I'm sorry. He just want to be seen, want to be validated, all the stuff. You could say sorry to me all day. I need us to talk through a plan on how we're moving forward, right?

And so sometimes the anger coincides were actually insecurity because I don't know. Like, there's ambiguity, so I'm projecting on to the, like, I don't have clarity that I can entrust myself to you because we haven't figured out if the offense will be replicated, right? And so I think ultimately at the end of the day, sometimes it's we need clarity and we need to talk through it sometimes you might actually be in conflict with somebody who doesn't even have the ability to change the pattern and so at that point

I just got to get that thing to God because I can't always wait on people to repent for me to do right that's good that's good not everybody will that's good we also learned though like accepting each other's apology languages yes yeah because it's like because it's like I feel like you're going to come from me. No. No, it's given like you said. I'm not for that come for you. Because the parable was about you. But go ahead. I'm not for to come for you, but like, you know, like, you still got to accept my sorry. To see, the mic went out when you, when you brought that spirit in here. I do. No, you do. You do. I'm just saying in general, like, I think that we had to learn how to accept each other's love, love language. Sure. Because I feel like we got to push past the way we

feel in the moment. And we had to find that that was a language. And we had to find that that was a language. Yes. We didn't know. Like, I didn't know why when you said, sorry, I wasn't satisfied. I'm like, so what? Like, cool, but it's like, you ain't told me like, no, I'm going to stop putting my drawers on the floor. Like, that would be really nice. It would be nice for you to say, okay, moving forward, I'll change this behavior. I do think that one emotion that has a root of some level of idolatry that isn't discussed enough is jealousy. Yes. Jealousy is. We should talk about it. Yeah, I feel like we should talk about jealousy because, one, I think jealousy is a sin that's committed in the body that's not often confessed, and so it's not often dealt with. Because we confess in pornography, we're confessing so much other stuff.

But, you know, can I tell you all another story? So some years back, this is story time oppressive period. This is a story time of press and parry. A couple years back, I had a friend who I thought was a really close friend. And all of a sudden, like, we would get around certain people groups, and he would just start fronting me off. It means, like, embarrassing me for all the people who don't know what that means. He would start embarrassing me or, like, like, saying, like, slick stuff out of his mouth around certain people. And I'm like, what is this?

This is interesting, Bucco. Like, and so, and so after the fifth to sixth time it happened, I start to watch. I'm like, okay, you know, because I'm an inside person, with somebody's, like, doing some bogus stuff. I'm just going to watch your behavior like, okay. Noted. Noted. And then all of a sudden, like, I just couldn't take it no more. I called Jackie one day and I said,

yo, I'm going to call such and such and tell him I don't want to be his friend no more. Like, I literally like, yeah. What's crazy is Preston is a big grown-up. You know what I'm saying? So it's like something about saying, I don't want to be your friend anymore over 30. That's just really hilarious to me. I said it just like that, yo, I don't want to be a friend no more. And I told him why.

You know? And what shocked me was he told me, he said, one, I wouldn't be your friend still, pressing, sorry. He apologized. But did he say, I've been jealous of you for two years? And I was like... That's like 24 months. Right. Very, very good, very good. Oh, a long time. But he ain't want to repent. Like, month three? And when he told me, I immediately got angry. Yeah.

I immediately got angry because I felt like, one, I was like, bro, how can you be my friend for that long and be jealous of me and not tell me. You know, and then, too, I never really dealt well with jealousy, especially as a Christian, because the first murder that ever happened was Kane was jealous of his brother, killed that dude in the field, hit that boy blood crying from the ground and all that stuff, you know what I'm saying? Not only that, what's her name, Yolanda killed Salinas. Oh, with some jealousy.

You know what I'm saying? Like, she in the truck talking about, I didn't mean to kill Salinas. I did, yes you did, Yolanda. Yes, you did. Every time Jackie watched that movie, she'd get an attitude. I'm like, girls. Because Selena was coming out with clothing. She had the little, the little brassiere thing, you know.

Y'all be singing a song. Y'all don't even know what they're saying, for real. Y'all don't know what they're saying. We feel it in our heart. We need illuminations to translate. Y'all thought a bitty bimbaht was a language. I thought she was saying something. Yeah, it was a heartbeat.

She was just explaining the heartbeat. Jealousy. Cain and able. Go ahead. Anyways. That was the first time. felt like I was compassionate about somebody who was dealing with that particular emotion. That's Christian.

Because, one, he had the heart to be honest with me, right? Because that's an embarrassing thing to tell somebody that you're jealous of. And then I felt like the Lord was like, get over how you feel and focus on the reason why he's jealous. One, he said, I asked him, I said, why was you jealous of me? He was jealous of every aspect of my life almost. He said, He said, I was jealous of you and your wife's relationship that y'all was real friends. I always wanted to be in a relationship with somebody I was real friends with. I said, okay. He said, I'm jealous of your kids when you go in the house.

He'd say, Daddy. I'm like, you jealous of that? That's crazy. Then he said, I'm jealous of your YouTube channel because a lot of people love your YouTube channel now. Then he said, I'm jealous. And I'm like, bro. And the Lord was like, I felt like the Lord was like, yo, he's jealous because he has no contentment in me. That's the idol.

When there's a lack of contentment in God, you're going to find other idols, right? you want to find idols to have and you're going to find people to be jealous with it. So I was like, okay, how can I help? And that was the first time I had to, like, help somebody work through their jealousy about me. That's crazy. Right?

And I do think that God kind of wants us to get over ourselves in some way if a person is honest. See, listen. So look, my wife, she talks with her face a lot. That's fine. Because she didn't like this friend. No, no, no, no. I love him with the love of Christ.

It's no longer I who live, but Christ who lives. me, that's, that's Galatians. Okay. Now, the Bible clearly advocates for us to love our neighbor. The Bible clearly says that we should bear with one another's weaknesses. The Bible clearly says to consider other people as better than yourself. That's a fact. The question is, are y'all still friends? Why are you bringing a bold stuff? I'm just saying, you keep giving part one and leaving out part two. And the reason is, the reason y'all not friends is because even though he was honest, even though he confessed, he never repented.

So that means he was honest, but he never changed the behavior. He never changed the pattern. And I think that's why jealousy is. So you're right. Yeah, it's poison. Jealousy is poison for relationships. He can't, like, his inability to die to himself in that way hindered y'all's ability to have authentic intimacy, right?

And when you're an envious person, a jealous person, it means that he simultaneously hated you and loved you at the same time and that's torment that's torment so he had to get away from you for the sake of his own peace and maybe your protection so this therapy so this therapy for i mean i'm just processing out loud with you you should you should talk about you should talk about a time when when you was jealous yeah of your friend so i'm not jealous often um but if i am jealous It, like, jealousy reveals what you value most. And so if you value careers, you might be jealous of that. If you value money, you might be jealous of that.

One thing I value a lot, or I tend to think highly of my own giftedness. And so my jealousy might show up in that way, right? And so, like, I had a friend who, when I was like 20, I was young, she, I had start rapping because I was bored. You know, like, you get real creative when you ain't got no job. And so like, I was writing raps or whatever. And she was a rapper too. And she had got signed to this Christian rap label. And I felt away because I'm like, I'm better than her, right?

Like, comparison, I'm thinking that because of my giftedness, I deserve what she actually has. And I've, jealousy is such a uncomfortable feeling. It doesn't really provoke peace or even often. You got to be fake. You've got to be fake. Like, I want to celebrate you. I want to honor you, but I have to like act like I care about the thing that I actually am jealous of. So I went to the Lord about it because I really believe that the Lord is not just, he doesn't just save us, but he's saving us, right? Like he wants to deliver us from fleshly emotions. So I went to the Lord and I'm like, hey God, I feel away about my friend getting, you know, this deal that I wanted, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I felt like the Lord spoke to my heart and was like, so, you. So, you know, I feel away about my friend. And was like, so, you only want me to get glory in the ways that you define it. And what that meant is, like, as a Christian, we always like, God, get your glory in the earth, be valued, be high and lifted up. But it's like when I get glory from telling you no and telling her, yes, you have a problem with it. And so I think when you reframe jealousy

and comparison in light of the glory of God, I actually think it's a good motivator to say that like, if I have green grass and they have greener grass, God isn't being less good to me than he's them. He's simply deciding how he wants to get his own glory. That's good. And I don't have the right to determine how he does that. But the thing is, the thing is, you went to her and you told her. Yes. Which can be an embarrassing thing to tell somebody, yo, I'm jealous of you. Well, I wrote a whole book about being a lesbian at one point in time. So like, you know, being honest really ain't a difficult thing. But yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Christian character part, yeah. But I can assume how for a lot of people it is.

very hard thing to admit. So how did you get to the point of being able to go to her with that emotion? And also to be honest with the Lord, because I think that's the reason why we can't be honest with other people, because we won't be honest with ourselves and the Lord first. For sure. Yeah, I think, one, I had already talking to God about it, so the shame is removed. If I'm supposed to be embarrassed by anything, it's him knowing.

That's good. And so me giving that to him meant that I had freedom now, right? Yeah, that's good. Two, I shared it with her because our friendship had the stamina to take that kind of confession. I had known her since fourth grade, because you can't tell everybody stuff like that because the relationship will change, right? And so for her, I said, hey, friend, I was jealous of you. I ain't say why because I had to like produce shame. I was like, I was jealous of you. You know what I'm saying? And we laughed about it and got over it. So that's number two. Like, there was maturity there.

Three, I really believe that confession is a form of warfare. Because the enemy really thrives when things are in the dark, right? So for me, I have a muscle in a rhythm now where I get stuff into the light as soon as possible. That's good. Because I just don't want, I don't want his little nasty, greasy, ratchet, ugly hands touching nothing that I got. That's good. That's good.

Yeah, I love the fact that you are honest with the Lord first because the Lord, like, Because I do think that our emotions makes us shameful. Like, you know, right? And so if we, if we feel a particular emotion, the enemy wants to attack us with shame because the shame doesn't make us confess what we feel. But it's like, no, Hebrews 414, it says when it says, seeing now that we have a great high priest,

Jesus, the son of man, who was passed through the heavens. It says, for we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weakness. But one who is tempted in every aspect just as we are, it goes on to say, yeah, without sin. Therefore, come to the throne of grace with boldness that we might find grace and help in our time of need. God was able to give you help.

Yes. Because you came to the throne for help, right? And I love the fact that it says that Jesus passed through the heavens. What the writers is indicating, it's like, no, Jesus came to the earth to empathize with the fact that we're weak. And so there's no need to have shame. Like, Buddha can't say that. Jalb's witnesses can't say that.

The Muslims can't say that. They can't say their God stepped off the throne to empathize with the fact that, no, that they're human with emotions and God can. So stop being shameful about it. You know what I mean? Some of the difficulty, though, I think is that many of us have been parented in such a way where we haven't been trained to have the room to feel our feelings with people in positions of power over us.

So we're projecting the way we were parented onto the father, right? And I think that that's difficult to deal with, right? And so I think that's why the Bible, like you have the biggest book of the Bible dealing with people singing songs and writing poems where they are honest with God about how they feel. That's good. And I wonder if some of it is because we reflect a lot on the divinity of Christ as we should. But I also think we need to meditate on the humanity of Christ because it means that we are in

like we're in union and relationship with a God who is a human being. who had human feelings. Yes. Right? Because I remember I remember when the Lord showed me like Jackie to look like me is also to embrace your feelings.

Think about that. Because God became man. To feel your feelings is what I made you for. That's good. So to reject and to deny your feelings is to reject your own humanity. That's good. That's good.

Yeah, yeah. And I love the fact that my God can relate to my feelings. Yes. Right? Because if God was just, if he didn't become man, right, he couldn't relate to me experientially, right? And so the fact that he became a man, like, it's no need for me to have shame.

But also the scripture says that he was without sin. He can help me because he knows what it means to be sinless. So I can find grace and help at his throne. So I think that we need to get comfortable with just coming to the throne of God with confidence. Just come confidently. Because God is never going to say, is you again? He's never going to say that. Because he can sympathize.

What does it look like to come to his throne when experiencing feelings of fear? Because I think if there is any emotion that is usually, not always, but many times provoked by some level of idolatry, it can be fear. Because it means that something else is consuming our mental energy more than the power of God. Yeah, that's good. I do think that fear has this like crazy ability to make us forget that. the nature and the character of God, right? Fear makes us not logical, right? This is the reason why a lot of people do illogical things

when they're afraid, right? And so, like, for example, when the disciples was on the boat with Jesus, and the storm came, right? One of the things that they asked Jesus was, Jesus, do you even care about us? Right? And one, they see the problem. They see the thing that's...

I mean, it was a problem. It was a problem, right? But it's indicative to how we do God all the time. We see a problem and we're so fixated on the problem that we can get to look at Jesus. Yeah. Right? Because logic should have told them that, man, if Jesus is on the boat sleeping, I should be sleeping too. If Jesus is on a boat resting, why am I not resting too? That's what lodger should have told them. But they were so fixated on the problem that they forgot, no, that the God who created the waves is on the boat with you. Because he could have been on somebody else's

both. Yeah, he could. He could have been at home sleeping. Yeah, but he was, he could have been to Bethlehem somewhere, visiting family. The problem, the problem and the fear became like, like, like, not only your God, but it made you forget, like, who you were with. Yeah. God was with you. Because fear often times has doctrinal implications. That's good. Right. So to repeat what you said, they are on the boat, feeling fear, rightly so, you know what I'm saying? Like, how you're, I'm afraid to. How are you going to fight back? waves. You can't, right? So like you're coming against a problem that you don't have the resources to overcome. That's oftentimes what our fear exposes our limitations. That's good. Now they feel the

fear and all the things and they go to Jesus not for safety, not for reassurance, not for peace, not for comfort, but to accuse. They say, do you not care about us? If this is God in flesh, then we need to be reminded of how he revealed himself to Moses when he said the Lord, the Lord a gracious and compassionate God. The whole reason Jesus even came to the earth without his compassion, right? And so the fear made them their own false teachers. Wow. They told themselves things about God that weren't true just because they were scared.

Yeah, God, do you even care about us? It's like, no, that's why he came to the earth. Yeah, yeah. Like him being there actually was the, evidence that you need it, that he cared. This is why you need good community, though. Yeah, yeah. You know what I'm saying? Because sometimes fear and a lot of strong emotions can be so visceral, so loud, so big,

that it can be hard to shake it if you don't have somebody to help you shake it, right? Like, that's why the Bible says in Hebrews, like, exhort one another. I love the sex. Exort one another every day while today is still today. So that you would not be hardened by the deceitfulness of. sin. Like, like I said this earlier in the VIP, like sanctification and holiness and maturity is a group project. Right? And so sometimes I need somebody else to come alongside me and say, sis, he can steal the waves. You'll be all right. You know what I'm saying? So like, like we don't need friends that's going to collar our feelings. We don't need pastors that's going to call to our

feelings. Like, we need people that can help us feel our feelings, but not be controlled by them. That's really good. That's really good. I think that's good community. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it wasn't until that's good. It wasn't until I began to get disciple by God named Brian when I saw that I was an extremely, like, an immature Christian. And why? Yeah, yeah, like my anger, it was just a form of pride and self-righteousness. I felt like I'm too good for you to sin against me. And so I couldn't get over the way I felt.

I would dictate how rooms felt. I would come in a room if I was mad. I had to show everybody in the room that I was mad. And he sent me down and he was like, yo, you're extremely immature, but you have the ability to be a good leader one day. And he took me under his wing and he, I'm still, you know, I have my problems, but like community is huge. It's huge.

It's huge. And discipleship is huge. Being a leader with emotions is a different task. Yes. Because now your emotions can also lead people in how they handle their own emotions. Yes. Right? Because I look at Moses, right?

Like a lot of times our emotions reflect our particular temperaments. And so with Moses, he had a justice bent. And so I think that's why when he saw one of his own being, you know, oppressed or whatever, he like, hey, you got him messed up. I'm going to kill you, right? Like he killed him out of a sense of justice and misplaced compassion. Yeah, that's good. But when the Lord got a hold of him, what made him a murderer made him. him a mediator. Okay? And so I think as leaders, we have to be mindful of the ways our temperament,

like when it's in God's hands, what it looks like, and when it's underneath the flesh, what it looks like. So for me, one leadership, emotion that I have to take account of is like, I am very honest, very forward, very assertive, but I'm not necessarily the most emotional person. And so it means that in my leadership style, I can be a person who will confront, but not necessarily hug. Right? Like, I'll call out, but I won't necessarily come near. So I have to lean into the direction of gentleness and compassion in ways that somebody who's naturally gentle and compassion has to lean into confrontation. Does that make sense?

And so having an awareness of your emotional temperaments, I think, makes good leaders. Yeah, and that's good. And if you grew up in a hyper-masculine culture that like I grew up in, you know, like a lot of people who come from where I come from, the hood, we're just emotionally dysfunctional, right? And it wasn't until I came to Christ where the Lord really challenged me to lead with my humility and to leave with my full emotions. I said this on the podcast. I think I forget what episode it was. But one thing that challenged me about Jesus raising Lazarus from the dead is that Jesus left the town that he was in and traveled to. of Bethany with the sole purpose of raising Lazarus from the dead.

So he literally told Martha, don't be sad, Martha. Jesus' sickness would not lead to death because he knew he was going to raise Lazarus from the dead. But when he saw the tomb of Jesus, he still had the emotional intelligence to do what? Weep. Think about that. That's so powerful to me that Jesus knew that he was about to turn that morning into a celebration, but he still had the emotional intelligence to weep with them first.

Yeah. Right. If I was Jesus, I would have showed up on the scene and was like, everybody, watch this. For sure. For sure. You ain't got to cry? Craig. No, no, no. I know he stink. Watch this, right?

Yeah. No, seriously. He did stink, though. Like, yeah, it said he was stink. He was... It was four days. Yeah, he was dead for four days. But Jesus had the emotional intelligence to sit and weep with him first.

And that shows me that, like, man, like, even as a leader, God wants me to lead with my humanity. If God came to lead us in humanity, how much more does God want us to lead with our humanity, without real emotions? So that challenges me. I remember the first time I read that in the next week, my daughter, eating, she was in the room,

and she was crying about something very personal. And I had the ability to, you know, make her happy. But the Lord challenged me with that word that I read previously. He said, no, cry with her first. sit with our first be human with our first because that is also a form of leadership but I think the way we're brought up

we're not taught to lead with our humanity we're only taught to leave without theology or with our power yes because strength looks powerful when humility actually takes foreign power that's so good right

like it's easy for me to like look strong and be like and fix all the problems. It's another thing for me to like to consider somebody else where I step into their world in such a way where I experience empathy. That takes something. You know what I'm saying? You've been, they don't know this yet. You've been making comments privately about, like you feel a way

about some of the public emotional displays on social media. Oh my gosh. You don't like it. So you talked about earlier, right? Let me be careful. Hold on to the pillow. So you talked about how the last generation before, like our parents and our grandparents,

they didn't have like proper ways to grieve. And I do believe, like, especially from the African-American context, we was a couple of generations away from slavery. They wasn't. Yeah, wasn't no safe space on the plantation. No, right, absolutely. No trigger warnings. But I do think that this generation be using therapy,

emotional trauma, safe spaces, all this. I'm not trying to be critical. Okay, here's the thing. Okay, let me, can we be real? Can I be real? He moved the pillow. Can I be real? He threw the pillow.

What's up with the people be crying in front of the camera? Like, I... Why do they be doing that? You thought about that, too? Because here's the thing, here's the thing, like, you set the phone up. Like, you set the phone up. Like, I think a lot of them, like,

I think a lot of them be having a tripod, so you set the tripod up, you fix the legs, you put the camera in the thing, situation, a little situation, the situation, and then you press the button so the camera can point towards you, like, you set the whole scene. And then you, like, I saw this one girl on my line, she was in her car. She's in her car, and she saw rocking back and forth. And I said, if she could have been a manifest something? Like, what is this? And she put her hair in a ponytail.

She wasn't crying at first, and then she started crying harder, and then she just hit like a whole espass moment. And I'm like, should I be empathetic when I felt like this is premeditated? I don't, I should. Okay, I'm not tripping. And then I saw the comments. The comments was like, hold on. Don't go into the light.

You think that was the tone. Yeah, yeah, God, it's with you. I'm like, I don't think this is real. And I'm not trying to, I'm not trying to like critique this generation. Well, I am. I am trying to critique this generation. I'm not trying to be harsh to this generation, because I do think that we have resources

that the last generation don't have. I want us to heal for real, not for play, play. Because if we don't take advantage, if we don't take advantage of the reason, because all good things come from the Lord, even if it's not exclusively Christian. And so the fact that God has given us resources to therapy, that's a gift from God. But like, don't let social media make you be an attention seeker

and not somebody who's really trying to get real healing. Yeah. That's all I'm saying. Yeah, I, I, I, I, y'all can clap. Be encouraged. So I, there's an emotional world behind that behavior. Break it down. Which is, I think, I think we're in one of the loneliest generations that has existed.

Because they won't go outside. Because they won't go outside. Like we're giving people our, I passed from, at birth. It's like, I be telling my auntie, my little cousin, he, we. I mean, because he won't, he won't play with other little kids. I'm, okay, go. We are in one of the loneliest generations that has existed. I gotta ride bikes again, man.

Social media is constructed and being utilized as a way to feel seen. And I think that means that the duty of the church and the responsibility of the church is to be a church. to be a place where people can meet Elroy. Elroy is the God who sees. But I also think one of the emotional things underneath is not just loneliness, but also, it's like we don't believe that God has eyes. Right?

And so we want affirmation from people who won't actually judge us in the end. And so some of that stuff, some of that need for attention can be, can be, can be done away with. If we just reflected on the fact that God will see us, that he does see us, and that he will reward us. Like one of the scriptures that sits with me that I try to put into practice is that it says when Jesus, when the report of him grew more and more, he would withdraw to desolate places and pray, right? So he didn't lean into the popularity.

He didn't lean into the followers. He didn't care about the algorithm. He didn't like, he didn't do nothing. Like when he got more popping, he went away, right? And it takes a level of security in the fact that God sees me to move that way. That's good. But also, also, at the end of everything, we will hear, if we're in Christ, well done, my good and faithful servant.

That's the affirmation that we're moving towards. We just don't have the patience for it. That's the affirmation we all need. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I think that, I think when you believe that God has eyes and concede, and we'll reward, then you don't have to be pretentious anymore. You can be authentic.

That's really good. That's really good. You know? Yeah, yeah. You know what? One thing I think, though, that helps us deal with our emotions well. What? Is that I said on the podcast a couple of weeks ago that sometimes we have to accept the fact that God is,

if God is calling us to do community with people who haven't received that glorify our body, that means. I still don't like that quote. I'm going to let you finish it. I don't like it. It makes me uncomfortable. That means God is calling us to endure the suffering of doing life with other faulting human beings.

I know you don't like it. But it's true. Like God calls us into suffering. And being wounded by people is a form of suffering. If Jesus came and loved the Judas, which makes you think we're not going to have to love some Judas is in our lives. You didn't have to say that out loud. It's true, though.

We didn't have to hear that. Like if Jesus came and loved hard people, that is a form. form of suffering. Yeah. Right? Like, you don't think it hurt Jesus when Judas portrayed him? Yeah. You don't think it hurt Jesus when the same people he created spit on him?

Yeah. He chose to enter into human condition into suffering by loving difficult people. Yeah. And so we really have to embrace that suffering. Can I read something real quick? It's the Bible. It's the Bible. Okay.

What chapter or what book? First Peter three, verse four. This is talking about suffering, but I think... Is it second Peter? I'm sorry. It's 1st Peter 4 verse 12. Okay. And that's what I said.

You said 3 verse 4. But it's okay. So? It's in the sea of forgiveness. It's all right. We forgot about it already. Players mess up. This is talking about suffering,

but I think it relates as a, in relation to, you know, what we're talking about. It says, beloved, right? Do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you. One, I love that fact that it says, as beloved because the writer here is not talking to Christians that God is mad at, nor is he

talking to unbelievers, but he's talking to Christians, right? He says, do not be surprised at the fire we trial when it comes upon you to test you as though something strange was happening to you. I think a lot of times when we do the hard, when we experience life with hard people that is hard to love, we don't recognize it as a form of suffering because our churches have not taught us a good theology of suffering. Right? And so this is the reason why when our dad disrespects us, when our dad walks out on us, when our coworkers get mad at us.

That, that, that... To take me to the fair. He said he didn't care. We don't recognize it as a form of suffering. And so this is the reason why we're so offended. This is the reason why, like, like, I remember loving a particular person in my family, you know. And I remember accepting the fact that God, is trying to teach me something about my own heart by loving this difficult person. There is something

that you learn about God when you deal with the hardships of loving difficult people. You know? And then he goes on to say in verse 13, but rejoice as you share in Christ's sufferings, right? There's no suffering that we go through that Christ is not also joined with us in that suffering, right? Like if my child walks in here right now and she has a headache, right? When she walked in as soon as I said that, If my child walks in and says, Daddy, I have a migraine. I don't have a migraine, but I'm going to immediately enter into a form of suffering because she's my child. And so we have to just know that God cares about what we're going through.

God cares about the emotions that we go through. Like those emotions that we feel, I guess what I'm trying to say, those emotions we feel, God feels those emotions too. And so we shouldn't think that we're alone in those emotions. No, he's literally with us in those emotions. Yeah. As a father, as a friend. Yeah, like having a theology of suffering and a doctrine of God helps you to basically manage the emotional turmoil that can come by way of suffering.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Like, having a right theology of suffering, I think it eliminates us being mad at God when we know that he's with us in it. Because we be mad because we keep counting the strange. We keep counting the strange. It's like, oh, we're still surprised. Yes.

Stop being surprised. It's going to happen. Like, nobody has received that glorified body. People are going to continue to hurt you. It's inevitable, right? I'm not saying being around toxic people, because God does want us to cut some people off. Like, everybody shouldn't be in your life,

but I'm saying the hardships of loving, difficult people. I think a chapter of the Bible or a story in the Bible that really has ministered to me when it comes to emotions and suffering is Hannah in First Samuel. Y'all read First Samuel, Second Samuel, First Kings, Second Kings, Chronicles, numbers, all of that is the most dramatic stuff

I've ever seen in my life. I don't know why we don't have enough movies. and Chosen just need to move to the Old Testament when they done. After Jesus dies, don't even go to Paul, just go to Genesis. I love Chosen. But I feel like they'd be looking like they're in Texas or Phoenix sometimes. Utah, they mean Utah, every scene. Are they actually?

They're good with it. They shoot a lot of the Chosen. It's given like Montana with camels. Right. But they, what was I saying? Hannah. First Samuel, Hannah is married to a guy named El Cana. El Cana has two wives, Panetta and Hanna.

Hannah. Hannah has no children. Panina has children. You might think that not having children isn't a big deal until you know the cultural context by which this is written in, which is that to not have a child or to be barren at that time is to be perceived as a woman who is underneath God's curse. And so like her barrenness means that there's a sense of internal and external shame that she's always experiencing, right? The Bible says that every time that they would go to the temple to sacrifice, Panetta would provoke Hannah. Remember? Penina has a child. children, Hannah does not. So it means that the provocation is most likely related to the fact that Hannah doesn't have any kids. So Penina will probably say stuff like, you know, like I got

stretch marks and you don't. My pelvic floor is weak and yours ain't, you know, stuff like that. I can't do jumping jacks than you can. Because after you don't have one child, God forbid you had a child and a half, you can no longer do jumping jack safely. That's okay. I feel like when you had like having a baby is crazy. When you have a couple of babies, you should be able to pee on yourself. Absolutely. What? You should be able to peel yourself with no judgment when you had a couple of babies. No judgment. Like, you develop the whole human being in your body.

That's crazy. I appreciate the freedom to urinate on myself. Watching our marriage has taken another step. Watching a woman get birth is like, y'all are different. I look up to y'all. That's crazy. Couldn't be me. I would have said, Lord, take me now.

The point remains, but seriously speaking, to say that every time they went to temple, Penina would provoke Hannah means imagine what it feels like that every time you go to the place of worship, you're reminded of what God has withheld from you. Right? Like every time you go to the church, you see people with children that don't even want them. You see people in marriages that just complain about it. You see people in jobs that always call off. Like you're always reminded of the thing that God isn't saying yes to you for. And I think that comes with some pain. You know, like if you could step into her context, like, I think you can feel those feelings. And so the Bible says that they sat down for a meal and it said, Hannah wept, she cries and would not eat.

Again, cultural context matters. The meal they were eating was some regular, regular meal. This wasn't steak and shakeshack. It was that they, whatever Elkanah sacrificed at the temple, he would take a portion of it home to his family for them to celebrate God over a portion of the sacrifice. Therefore, the meal was a meal of worship. So when it says that she wept and would not eat, it isn't that she isn't hungry, it's that she can't pray out to God. Another application.

It's like when you go to church and they sing, God is good all the time, all the time God is good. And your suffering does not resonate with those lyrics. Where it feels like I can't sing this song because it doesn't feel like you're being good to me, right? Like when your suffering is that big where you just can't sing the song. But she weeps, does not eat, but she doesn't stay there. The Bible says that she goes to the temple.

And when she gets to the temple, she lets out all of her emotions before God. She says, oh, Lord of hosts, look on the affliction of your servant. The Bible says that she got so dramatic with her crying, so extra with her lament, that the priest thought that the lady was drunk. He thought that she didn't have a margarita with a little corona bottle sticking outside. He think that she had a Hennessy and Coke. He think, don't ask me why I know the menu, I just do. He know real well.

I mean, self-control. Who your pastor, that's funny. But he didn't know if she was drunk of Pentecostal. He couldn't discern the difference, right? But what it means, catch this, what it means is she was honest with God, even with her body. Teach. Right? So she cries, let out all the things.

And the Bible says that she walked away from the temple. and her face was no longer sad. Mind you, her circumstance hadn't changed. Panena was still at the house. That's good. Panena still had kids. She was still where she was. Like, she was going back to a home

where suffering was a possibility. That's really good. The difference was she gave God her emotions and God gave her his joy. God can give us new emotions. That's what the fruit. The fruit of the spirit is what? Joy.

You better preach. And so I think healthy Christian, emotional maturity is that we have to learn the discipline of feeling the feelings and not going to the edible but going to the temple. Feeling the feelings and not going to the bottle but going to the temple. Feeling the feelings and not even going to busyness because some of us are busyness, our busy bodies, because once we sit down, we feel inadequate, meaning that our time and Sabbath gives us an opportunity to feel something. That's good. That's good. And so God, I just think he wants us to like learn how to feel our feelings with him.

and not independent of him. That's good. That's good. That's really good. With the Perry's is produced by The Perrys, with support from Amanda Reed and Channing McBride, video recording and audio production by Matthew Baxter and Xavier Fairley, edited by the team at Tread Lively, artwork by Hop and music by Swoop. Thank you for listening. Now go with God.