With The Perrys - How to Give the Gospel (Part 2)

Episode Date: October 2, 2023

Why is it important we address sin when presenting the gospel? Because people need to know what stands in the way of their relationship with God… but how we communicate really matters. In this episode, Jackie and Preston take a look at 2 Timothy 2, which discusses character traits necessary when addressing sin. We can’t do it in our flesh. It requires dependence on the Holy Spirit. If you missed Part 1 of this gospel conversation, check it out here.   Take our brief listener survey.  Subscribe to the Perrys' newsletter: https://withtheperrys.myflodesk.com/zhfus4jx1s Join Preston's discipleship community for men: https://www.patreon.com/PrestonPerry/membership To support the work of the Perrys, donate via PayPal: https://paypal.me/withtheperrys Shop BOLD Apparel: boldapparel.shop Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, St. Nate. What up with y'all? So you text me last night. You were in Houston. I was at home. I haven't asked you this question yet. And so you're about to get thrown off guard. You text me and said,

somebody is casting a demon out of somebody in the parking lot. What was that about? Yeah, I had an event in Houston. And it was a really good event. And after the event, you know, the volunteers are packing up my merch. And we go outside to hop in an Uber or to call the Uber. And then we hear all this shouting, come out of her right now.

Come out in the name of Jesus. You come out. You lose her. And I'm like, what? And I'm like, what is happening? And then it's like, you know, a group of people who came to my event, like casting this demon out of this girl. And I was like, should I go over there?

And I'm like, I'm going to just wait it out. I'm going to be honest, which I said, I'm going to wait it out and see what happened. And then I heard her say, she's mine. I said, what? I'm dead serious. She said, she's mine. I said, in the parking lot. In the parking lot.

I said, oh, Lord of Lord. I mean, I wish I, you know, I love these stories. I wish I knew the beginning. I just looked from afar and I was like, you know what? Because when did she start manifesting? It had to be inside of it. I don't know. I was like, did I say something in this event that make her manifest?

Was she looking at me the whole time? Like, I don't like him. I don't know what. You said a girl came up to you who went to glory and she said she was manifesting when I was preaching. Yeah. But I didn't know that. I was so, I was like, the whole time?

Like, you know. She said she left early, right? No. No, she didn't say she left her. She just said Jackie started to say things that made some demons in me manifest. And I was sitting there manifesting the whole time. And then I went home and told,

people about it, brought my friends over and they cast three demons out of me or something like that. I said, I'm going to make sure I tell Jackie that. I don't be telling Jackie everything. People would be like, oh, tell Jackie, I love her. I never tell that. I never tell that. I never say that to Jackie. I always forget. I didn't forget that story, though. Which works really well with this conversation. Because

when Jesus shows up, demons got to go. And so I think there's something to be said about when you preach truth because the power, at glory with me teaching, the power wasn't, it wasn't me, right? That means that the spirit is attending the preaching of God's word and his gospel. And because of that, the darkness in the room is no longer comfortable. You remember that one girl that walked up to me after the event when he was on the poetry tour

when she walked up to me and said, you got to remind me. She walked up to me and said, she kept shaking her hand. And she kept, she won't lick me in my eyes. I said, are you okay? And she said, they don't like y'all. They don't like y'all. And I said, I don't remember this story. You just told this.

No, I remember the girl who came up to you and was like, she said, we know who you are. That's what it was. That's what it was. Oh, you just made up a whole no situation. I said the wrong thing. She said, we know who you are. And you was like, we. Yeah, yeah.

No, I said, she said, we know who you are. And I said, who are you talking about? You and your wife. and then she put her head down and then she walked away and I said, Lord, I don't know what that was about. We? I said who is we?

One of you. Because when she said it, when she said it, I looked around, I said, You got multiple people. Who was we? Yeah. But anyways, what was you saying? I don't even know.

How do we get on demons? Because you text me saying that the girl was casted the demon out. What I was going to say was, you know what something so deep to me? This is a random tangent. I've really been meditating on how meditation seems to be a door, a common door for demonic possession for many people.

Because when you talk to or watch stories or testimonies of people who were oppressed, there was always some form of emptying the mind that open up those doors. I just think that's interesting. That's all. Because the Bible says meditate on his life. law day and night. There is no emptying of the mind. And so there seems to be some type of correlation between you meditating apart from Jesus and his spirit that actually opens a door for all kinds of demons and stuff. Anyway, this is part two of engaging culture. Right.

And we left off, so let me back up. If you didn't watch episode one, go back and watch it. It's a good hour long with us talking about what is the gospel. how to engage the culture, how to not, you know, engage people where you just point out knowledge but missing the people in front of you, all the things. And we left off by saying that

in engaging and discipling and giving the great commission in the gospel, sin has to be addressed. Yeah, for sure. How do I say this? Do we, in what way do we do a disservice to the people we minister to if we do not talk about sin?

Yeah, I think because in the first episode we talked about laying a foundation of what the gospel is and not starting with sin, but starting with the glory of God and how God created us and his image and his likeness and all of that. But I do think that there has to come a time where people sin is addressed because the Bible addresses people's sin. And so I think it's a difference between beating somebody over the head with their sin and showing them that like, no, the God who created you, the God of the universe, you fell from his perfection,

and these are all the problematic ways in which is keeping you from him. Because I think what sin, not think, I know what sin does is it separates us from the Lord. And so I do think that if we do it with grace and truth, you know, letting people know, like, man, this is the reason why you are separated from God because this jealousy in your heart,

like God wants to nip it in the bud. This anger in your heart is preventing you from seeing the glory of God. This covetiness in your heart, right? This idolatry in your heart. And a lot of times we just become idols of so many things in the world. And we realize why it's a disconnect, why we haven't felt close to the Lord in months. It's because it's the sin in our life. It's preventing us from being close.

We have to address that because that's the reality of the human condition. is that our hearts are wicked and sinful and depraved and because of it, we make up things about ourselves, we make up things about God. And I think the preaching against sin is it benefits people in that they need to know what's in the way of fellowship with God. For sure. But it also brings people low.

So like Romans 1, for example, you have Paul going on this, what seems like a long rant about how the wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all ungodliness, right? And how all men, all men have fallen short of the glory of God. And then he goes on to detail particular sins that are a part of this falling short. He talks about homosexuality. He talks about, let me read some of it since we're here. Can you hold my coffee? God bless you. He talks about maliciousness, strife, murder, evil, covetousness, slanderers, gossipers,

haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. And then chapter two, why does he do this? Therefore, connecting to the previous chapter, you have no excuse, oh man, every one of you judges for in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, meaning the Jews are over here thinking, oh, that's the Gentiles. Like the Gentiles, they underneath the wrath of God. We, we Abraham people.

We good. But it's like, no, if you have practiced these things, you actually, you're not even in the position to judge anybody because you're just as needy. And so I think this is, I think preaching against sin humbles us under the mighty hand of God so that we can now see that we actually do need Jesus. So we preach sin. so people know the reality of their state before God, and we also preach sin to cultivate and nurture a desire for a savior.

So you get what I'm saying? How will you know that you need saving if you don't realize that you need saving? Yeah, that's good. That's good. What other way is there? Let me ask you this, though, because I think, you know, people who probably watch your sermons or watch my YouTube videos of evangelism and stuff like that, they've seen us kind of address sin, right? But also, too, I think it would be helpful for you to kind of explain what does that practically look like in your private life?

Because you have walked with young women. That's good. You have walked with, yeah, sometimes older women. And so when you see problematic things in people life, sin, like, how do you go about addressing it? And what does that look like? Because everybody's not a preacher, but everybody has people, every Christian has somebody in their life where they have to kind of. Excellent question. Well, one, because last episode we talked about how to help people be gospel-centered.

A big part of helping people be gospel-centered is you have to be gospel-centered within yourself. Right. Like, you cannot impart nothing, like anything you don't also have. And so I think me being very aware of my own sinfulness. That's good. And being very sensitive to my own heart and dealing. with that gives me an ability to discern it in others. That's good.

Right? Because I'm going to miss certain cues if I and myself am not living right, right? Or I'll be more relaxed. So, you know, you can have somebody who, I don't know, I don't know what to say. Like somebody who are a little lucy-goosey in their conversations with people or they drink in a little too much. You know what I'm saying? Like if you're a person that creates excuses for your own sin, then you'll see that and you won't actually think it's problematic. That's good. Because you do the same thing. That's really good. But when you are walking close to the Lord,

and that's not to say that walking close to the Lord, doesn't mean that you won't struggle with sin. It means that you're even more aware of it because you're so close to the light. That's excellent. That's Isaiah 6. That's good. Like he saw a vision of the Lord and His Holiness,

and he said, woe is me, mind you, catch this. Woe was me, a man of unclean lips. Yeah. He was convicted of how he spoke. Not I'm not here having sex to all these people Not I'm watching pornography Not I'm a drunker Not I'm stealing

The way I talk as a prophet Ain't right Because I'm so near to the Holy One So I think that's helpful But I think as I notice things My default now Is prayer My default before

Used to be to call out immediately Yeah Hey that's a little crazy Why are you doing that? Or hey we need to talk You know like just pouncing on people instead of observing and bringing it

to Jesus first. And I think in bringing it to Jesus, I think Moses models this very well. You know, like even when he came down from the mountain and they were building that idol, what did he do? He went to interceded first. You know what I'm saying? That's what he would often do

as a leader is bring the sins that he observed and saw in the community and bring them to God. And I think in that place God gives you wisdom to know how to address it. I cannot tell you how often God will have me say nothing for long periods of time. Yeah. And then he might use somebody else to address it. You can understand. Like, I think that. I think that's, I think that's really good because when Jesus tells his disciples to be wise as serpents,

as harmless as does, what he's really saying is go out, give truth, but be discerning and how you do that, right? It is not just saying, go out and just pew truth, to everybody who will listen, right? Because even like, I think we quote that scripture a lot, but we don't meditate on the two creatures, the serpent and the dove. It's like, what is he talking about? If you pay attention to a serpent, a serpent is cunning.

A serpent is not seen until it wants to be seen. A serpent is not loud, right? And neither is a dove. A dove is gentle. Not only is a dove, genteel, it is not even in its nature to be malicious, right, in any way. And so I think what God is, it's saying it's like man like be be be be cunning be wise be discerning um you don't always have to be loud

you don't always have to be seen um and when when a when a snake is seen it's because he wants to be seen and it's effective when it's seen and so a lot of times we are just not effective because we just we just out and about or whatever and so i think what you just said it's just so much wisdom in that. And one of the ways in which I felt like the Lord, when the Lord started to improve me being an evangelist or me just being a light in people's lives around me, is when I start to move with that particular wisdom, a wisdom that says, you know what? How can, how can I be more discerning in showing this person that their life and the way they live in their life is a little little problematic. What that might look like is God may lead you to be to be humble before them

and to explain all the problematic ways in which you fell into sin so they can be receptive to when you correct them. And so I've even had times like that where, you know, because I think a lot of times people expect Christians to just rebuke, revute, rebuk. And we have this, you know, holier than doubt stands. And this is like, no, like even reminding somebody that, man, like, no, I struggle with sin too. Not only am I going to tell you that I struggle with sin, I'm going to tell you the particular sin that I've struggled with and how it's still a wrestle and how I submitted to the Lord

so they can be more receptive to you when you call out their sin. I also think that to back up a little bit, in praying and seeking wisdom, we don't want to stay there, right? And so just because you pray doesn't mean, that you also don't address. Right. Because I think there is a time and a place for everything.

There's a time speaking. There's a time to be silent. But I also think that the state of the person determines the wisdom in what you address, meaning how I address a person who is a believer about their sin is going to be different than how I address a person that's an unbeliever about their sin, right? Because as a believer, they,

know God. They are filled with his spirit. There is the assumption that you already have the power to do right. So the way I address is as a sister, as a family member, it's, hey, you have confessed that you know him, that you love him, that you will serve him. Therefore, if I see these things, dot, dot, dot, dot, even Paul says, you know, like, bring it to your brother. If they don't repent, bring two or three, then bring it before. Like there's a whole structure to how you address sin for a believer. But the unbeliever, I'm not going to nitpick at particular sin. Like, oh, they curse all the time or all they gamble.

They don't know him. Yeah. They don't know him. So the bigger issue isn't these individual sins. The bigger issue is how do I help this person know God? Yeah, that's actually one of my biggest pepies. Go ahead. To be honest with you.

Which is what? I do not like when Christians complain about. what the world does. When sin is a senate. Yeah, it's just like, didn't you act your nature out when you, before you came? It's like, like,

I even had people on my YouTube video say, they shouldn't be cursing in front of you. I'm talking to, I have a YouTube channel talking. Yeah. It's just like, you know, and I, you know,

I think that we just become so detached from our old nature, you know, to the point where we feel like, you know, the world ain't going to be the world. Yeah. Yeah.

Like we're surrounded by unbelievers. And so the way I approach them is actually, I do, I put more energy into the big picture. Yeah, that's good. Of putting Jesus before them, what he came to do and how he is calling them to himself. I'm not going to like, because I'm not, I'm not discipling you in Jesus because you're not in him. but I am evangelizing you towards Jesus, which is to say, hey. That's a good distinction.

It's just, it's just, so the way I navigate. But I wanted to read this verse when it comes to addressing sin because I think if we could get this verse in our hearts, the way we do things would change. It's Second Timothy, you're going to know what I'm reading. Second Timothy 23 through 26, it says, have nothing to do with foolish, ignorant controversies. You know that they breed quarrels.

that should include all these social media accounts that are just controversial all the time. Heresy hunters. And the Lord's servant, the Lord's slave, Dulas, must not be quarrelsome, quarrelsome, argumentative, always trying to have a fight over doctrine and over all the things, but kind to everyone able to teach,

patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil after being captured by him to do his will. Notice the character traits

that Paul draws out when it comes to how we address sin, right? Not quarrelsome, kind, able to teach, patient, enduring, gentle, right? So that means that the way you address sin in the congregation or even with unbelievers requires dependence of the Holy Spirit

because gentleness is a fruit of the spirit. Kindness is a fruit of the spirit. Endurance is a fruit of the... Like, you can't do it in the flesh. Yeah, absolutely. It reminds me of 1st Peter 315 when it says, always be prepared to make a defense

of why you believe what you believe, but yet do it with gentleness and respect. And I think a lot of times people think, oh, this scripture is only referring to apologetics, but it's really just talking about be prepared to give the gospel, prepare to give the reason why you believe what you believe.

but if we don't have gentleness and respect and kindness, we make the God that we talk about look like a liar. Yep. Right. And so, like, this is the reason why God in his scriptures has put sometimes more emphasis on how we say things other than what we say. Because, you know, people care.

They don't care what you know until they know that you care. And so, like, our conduct and our behavior matters to the Lord. It really does. It does. Like, if we, like, because a lot of times people would be like, I just gave them the truth. Yeah, you gave them the truth in a garbage bag. Yeah.

And you want them to accept it. It's like, take this truth. And it's like, no. Because we be thinking we can abuse people towards Jesus. That ain't, that ain't Jesus either. Yeah. Like, let me beat you up towards it. Because that's what we see on Internet all day.

It's like, oh, you just hate, you just hate truth. And I've seen people. No, I don't like how you said it. Yeah, I've seen people arguing comment sections. And it's just like, they should want the truth. yada y'all. Stop making excuses for them. It's like, no, you came in this common section loveless.

And you think that just because what you say is true, you can just say it. And you know what? I told you this in the car the other day. I was like, they will often co-op the ministry of Jeremiah and Ezekiel and Isaiah or even John the Baptist and be like, they did it. But you're not them. Yeah. You're not John the Baptist.

You're not Jeremiah. You're not Isaiah. You're you. Yeah. Right? And this book that describes their behavior is spiritually inspired. And so let's not co-op the particular ministry of Old Testament prophets and think that we somehow have the ability to be or do. Like we can learn from them.

But our primary example in how to give the gospel is not the prophets is Jesus. Right. With that, though, this won't be a question because I don't know how to ask it, but you can speak to it. I think that there is wisdom and being aware of your personality and your temperament and how that can influence the way you engage people. Yeah, absolutely. You know what I mean? Because like me, one thing I had to realize is I was failing.

And I still struggle. I was failing on that gentleness piece a lot in the early days because my temperament is to be a bit more harsh, more assertive, more direct. Yeah. And so because that's kind of how my personality is, I actually have to work harder to lean towards gentleness and kindness

and dependent on the spirit. But then you have those who their temperament is, is, they're not, I'm not going to say kind, they're nice. Yeah. They might be people pleasers, right? They might be much more, what's the word? Just the people that want to hug people all the time.

Yeah, yeah. Because that's their temperament, they might actually need to lean more into the spirit to be more direct, to be more honest. Like, can you speak to even just your experience with that in evangelism and in ministry? Absolutely. I think God is going to use us how he is uniquely made us. I think, but at the same time, I think that we have to, we have, we have to understand

that we, we fight against a real devil who wants to pervert how God has made us and wants us to be, wants us to give so much grace at times that we lack truth, that wants to give us so much truth at times that we lack grace. And I think Jesus and the gospel is the beautiful balance of both. And, you know, and yeah, so for me, like, I'm a direct person as well. You know, I'm not afraid to speak truth. But sometimes I can lack wisdom in, in, of, um, of when I say things. Yeah. And so, uh, also too, like truth given at the wrong time can be just as harmful. Um, and so my discipler, you know, our discipller, told me like, Preston,

you're Peter in a lot of ways. You are very impulsive. God has made you to speak truth, but he wants to give you, like, you don't naturally lean towards wisdom. You have fearlessness, but your fearlessness, I don't want you to mistake your fearlessness for boldness.

That's good. Because boldness is not doing what men are afraid to do. Bonus is about obedience. Boldness is doing what God told you to do. And so for me, I just had to balance that. You know what I'm saying? I had to balance really, okay, Lord, I see something. Let me, let me seek you so I can know how to say it.

And so I think God wants to use you how he has uniquely made you. But I also think that God wants you to trust in him so you to clean up all that messiness. That's good. Because I think that's what happens in our ministry. We like we operate and how God has uniquely made us. but if we don't submit that to him and give that to him, we just, we sloppy with it. Yeah, that's why I think it's good that to see the beauty in your temperament

so that you don't try to become something you're not. Absolutely. You know, like there's beauty and goodness and your fearlessness. Because that's literally what the Lord intended. But the sanctification process is God removing the hindrances to his glory through your personality. That's good. Yeah.

And so for me, just as the Lord continues to purify and sanctify me, he's continuing to growing me in the clarity of my communication about truth, but also in love for people. That's good. So that as I walk in my natural temperament,

it's still like undergirded by the love of Jesus that I don't naturally have. Speaking of temperaments, a common discouragement that I've seen among women and this might exist

among men that I've just experienced is people feeling like to give the great commission to engage culture they put themselves in a category

of how they can do that. Right. So like one time we had a friend a long time ago when me and you and others used to do poetry all the time

in Chicago she felt like she wasn't as useful because she wasn't creative. Yeah. And like she was more administrative, more like logistical. And we was like, you ain't got to be a poet to be like faithful. You know what I'm saying? But I see that often where it's like, oh, like I have to preach or I have to, I have to go out and give the gospel on the street where you, where people miss like, no, how has

God made me? How has God gifted me? And where has God put me? How do I engage and give him glory with all of those? Yeah. What do you think about that? I was going to ask you, what do you think? Because I would love to hear, well, I can, I don't, I don't, I don't want to speak for you. But, like, I, like, I think looking at our own lives, like, like the private lives that we have is a good example.

Because, you know, I'm a poet, you know, I'm a speaker, your, your speaker, preacher, teacher, all of, all of these things. But I tell people all the time, like I said before, God will use you how he has uniquely made you. And so, like, I think one way I see you, you know, being used in your private life and giving the gospel, I think it's a good picture for people because you're not like me. You won't go up to a stranger and give them the gospel. Nope. Right? Anxiety. Right.

But I think that sometimes people. Taking over me. Yeah. I think sometimes. Anxiety. This is why I'd be losing my thought because she's always singing. but I think sometimes people think that like, you know, I have to be evangelistic in this way, right?

I have to be evangelistic like Preston does with evangelism videos. I have to be evangelistic how like Jackie gives the gospel in her sermons. And it's like, no, like are you being used how God has uniquely made you? I tell this story all the time of how when we was coming back from Virginia, I saw some Jehovah's Witnesses in the airport. And I'm like, yo, I feel not only do I. I feel called, but I feel this compulsion, right? Because God made me like that.

And so when I was like, Jackie, I'm going to go get a gospel to these Jehovah's Witnesses. You was like, okay, I'm going to go get some food. Right? Like, I didn't feel the need to be like, no, you're a Christian too. Come with me. Sometimes I have encouraged you to do so. But it's like, no, like, that's just not your thing.

I actually ended up getting in your way. Yeah. When I did it. Absolutely. But when I left, right, and found you at the at the at the at the um at the um at the um at the um you were sitting there praying with a waitress and i was like wow come to find out the lady you know uh asked you who you ordering food for my husband where's my husband you know way they're talking to

jehovah's witnesses oh i came from a family of jehovah's witnesses and they did x y z to me he was able to share the gospel with her and pray with her and so you didn't you didn't you didn't seek out a conversation with jehovah's witnesses but you didn't deny one either right? And so a lot of times God is going to use you to be a pursuer, right? A lot of times God is going to use your gifts to be a preacher, right? But being an evangelism, being a disciple and making disciples, it's more about obedience than anything.

Yeah, being ready. Being ready. Yeah, yeah, because it's like, and I think that sometimes people look at other people's gifts and feel this need to be what they are. And it's like, no, like God made you unique and he's going to use you, you know. The question is, are you obedient? Yeah. That's good. Yeah, I think, because you don't know how long I just carried a lot of anxiety and fear and discouragement

because I thought that to be faithful, I had to be like other people. Why did you think that, though? Because I was at a church that highly emphasized. evangelism the way you do it. Yeah. And apologetics. And like we would go out in teams and preach the gospel. And it stressed me out so much.

But I also, it was also a church that was really condemning. And so it was like, oh, you got a spirit of fear. God hasn't given you a spirit of fear. Like you're a slave. Like you're a people pleaser. But, and it's like, is that fair to some degree? Yes. But it's also you're not cultivating the place.

that I don't feel fear. Absolutely. I don't feel fear when it comes to leading a Bible study. I didn't fear fear when it came to teaching God's word to a small group of people. Like, I didn't feel fear in those places, but they weren't pointing me in the direction of what God was probably, had already equipped me for. Can I speak to that real quick?

Because I think we underestimate what a, like not underestimate. That's the wrong word. I think that we missed the purpose of God creating a body. But he talks about how a toe can't be the knee and the knee can't be the shoulder. It's like, you know, he created us uniquely different for a reason. And so I think a lot of times a church might have a particular mission and they want everybody to conform to that mission. But I think what leadership has to do is leadership has to notice the giftedness in certain people and cultivate that gift in them. Right.

So what I used to do when we co-led at a church in Chicago, I was the head of the evangelism team, right? When I started, I made everybody go out. Not because I felt like everybody was called to go out. I made everybody go out so I can notice who ain't. And so, yeah, you don't need to be out of it. I don't think that this is, you know, and as a leader, that was my job to be prayerful

and to discern people's gifts. And so what we did because we co-led at a house, church, I understood the people who had the gifts of hospitality. And so I was like, you know what? The people out here who are evangelists like me, they might not have the gifts of hospitality. And so when we're giving the gospel to them, I know where they point them back to where they can be served in a different way. That's good. Right.

And so I think that if we understand that everybody is not called to serve in the same way, we won't be trying to force people to be an evangelist because we're an evangelist in the same way that we are an evangelist. But we're all created to make disciples. And don't hear us saying that God won't make you uncomfortable. That's not what we're saying. No. Like there will be times where you have to play a role that you don't feel especially equipped for. There will be times where God will call you to obey him in a way that you don't feel like you're gifted for. But the overall emphasis is there are also ways in which God has equipped you, gifted you, and placed you that actually serves.

the overall call that he has on your life. Identify that and walk in it. I think one example practically for me is when I was at Wendy's, when I was 20 years old, right? Like, I was still doing poetry on the side and poetry was a means of teaching God's scriptures for me. And so I was there and I was trying to call off on Easter. They wouldn't let me call off.

And I was like, Lord, if I can't go to church on Easter, if I got to be at work, well, clearly, like, make it a ministry. opportunity, right? Mind you, I'm not preaching on nobody's pulpit. I don't have no Instagram account because I don't even think I think that was Instagram when you can only have it on Android or something like that. Or iPhone. But I was like, Lord, like

you have me here. And I'm a Christian. I'm the only Christian in this place. Like use me. And so like it was like this lull in the day and we was by the frostation and I was like, hey, do y'all know what Easter even means? And they was like, something

about bunnies, right? And I was like, no. And so I used it as an opportunity to give the gospel. What happened? I used my gift of teaching. Where was I? I was at Wendy's, right? What was I called to do to give the gospel? How has God made you? How has God gifted you? Where has God placed you? Engage from that place. That's really good. So you don't have to, you don't have to place yourself in any categories out of comparison or even on insecurity. Identify how the Lord has equipped you, where he's called you, how he's made you, and give him glory. That's really good. Now let's conclude with just like earlier in last week's episode, you talked about how Jesus,

like the disciples asked him where he lived and how they followed him and like watched his life. People see you, people see us and they see us giving God glory publicly through this podcast, through preaching, through teaching all the things. But that's not really the primary way we make disciples. So what is a practical way that people can begin to pour into people in their context? Yeah. Going back to the Great Commission, it says, therefore, go make disciples of all nations. And I think that goal can be interpreted as you go.

Like, as you do life. You know, I'm not saying don't look for ways to actively pursue people. You know, and if you feel like you're called to be in a street evangelist, don't go out and preach, you know, in the streets, do that if that's what you're called to do, right? But at the same time, I think what it looks like is being intentional with your everyday relationships, everyday life, everyday circumstances. It's like, how are we leading people to the gospel? For example, with me, like, you know, I needed a new barber.

And so I put it on line that I needed a new barber because my barber, he, you know, was traveling a lot and I travel a lot. I was like, this relationship is not working out. Right. And so, you know, I put it online. I found a really, really talented dude that lives here in Atlanta to cut my hair. I mean, the dude, he just got out of barber school. But I think he's one of the most talented barbers of all time. Honestly, he's really gifted.

And so he became my barber. And he became my house barber. And, you know, I felt like the Lord was calling me to disciple him. I didn't want to do it at first or whatever. And then I mentioned, I was like, yo, I feel like the Lord is calling me like to disciple you. Or do you have anybody to walk with you? And he started to just get emotional. I was like, because I've been praying that you would disciple me or whatever.

Long story short, like, you know, we just have gospel conversations when he cuts my air. It's not like me going out, right? It's just one, it started with me being obedient. And it's just, like, as I go, like, you know, like he, like, he comes, he asks me questions about marriage. He's just been, he's been married, what, for five months now, you know what I'm saying? So he's asking me questions about marriage. He's asking me questions about how love his neighbor. And, you know, he comes to my events periodically.

And so I don't have to change my life. I just have to give the gospel as I go, right? And so he's in my home. He's asking me, you know, questions about my kids. asking me, you know, he wants to have kids soon. And so he's learning all of these things from me by just being in close proximity with me. And what's helpful about that, because we learn that from Brian and I, is that a lot of times when you think of ministry, you sometimes think of programming.

Like I have to create a Wednesday night Bible study or I have to create a conference or I have to create something. And there is, there's room for that. Yeah. Right. Like the Lord will call you to create certain things or certain resources or certain programs to do ministry. But there's also a sense in which you don't have to create anything you just include, right?

Yeah. And so what are the natural rhythms of my life and how can I include people in that world? And so like one of my mentors, Melody Fabian in Chicago, she would often just invite me over her house. And it wouldn't even like she would open up the Bible, but a lot of times she was talking to me while she was bathing her child or doing laundry or cooking for her family. That was her natural rhythm and she just included me in it, right? And so in her including me in it, I'm not only hearing her instruction, but I'm also watching how she, how she's taking care of her daughter. Absolutely. That's good.

And so like I think that takes some of the weight off. What it does for us introverts and us stingy people is it actually kind of puts us in a position. where we can't be so private. Yeah. And like where our time is shared and where our homes are actually open to people. But that's actually how the early church functioned. Yeah.

Is that they were doing all of this in somebody's house. Yeah. And also too, I think it's very important for us to pay attention to how the gospel was primarily spread. It wasn't primarily spread by God doing what Jesus doing a whole bunch of sermons on the mountains. It was really primarily spread by him pouring into 12 men

who poured into others. And so, Peter, John. 11, technically. Eleven, I mean, Judas. I mean, even. He spread it too. Yeah, he spread it.

Yeah, he spread it. I'm sorry, I made that something that shouldn't have been. But you get what I'm saying. And so like, like Jesus poured into 12 men who poured into others. And I would argue that the gospel was spread just as much, probably more than Jesus investing in the lives of people. Notice how he didn't invest in 300 people. Yeah. personally every single day he chose men, right, who would impact people.

And then those people would impact people and those people will impact people. And so, yeah, like programs and conferences and, you know, ministries and finding youth ministries to be a part of, that's all good. But don't underestimate the power of a life being changed in close proximity of you and how that gospel message and how you can use the gospel message to go into somebody else. they can go into somebody else. That's good. Can I pray for us? Yeah. I want to pray for us because this is good.

This is because I was just thinking about the Great Commission that this is God's heart. It is to reach the world and to grow up the church. That's good. And so if we could have more people on mission and more people equipped with the gospel and more people intentional about building relationships and ministering where,

they are. Like the world, the world would change. Yeah. So I just want to pray. Lord, we thank you for today. We thank you for your kindness. We thank you for your gospel. We thank you that, you know, you knew our condition. You knew that we could not be reconciled to you apart from you. And so we thank you just for your grace, for sending your son, Jesus, to reconcile us back to you. Thank you for forgiving us. Thank you for raising us from the dead. Thank you for filling us with your spirit. Thank you, for giving us a body and a church and a community and a family of people who are all filled with you and all resurrected by you and all going out into the world and making disciples. And so I pray for everyone listening, God, that they would be on mission, that you would

show them how you've gifted them, that you would show them what you've called them to, and that you would encourage them in the places that you've placed them, that that too is a mission field, that that too is where you, like that they're not on their, job, that they're not in their churches, that they're not in certain relationships by accident, but that you want to use them on purpose wherever they are. And so we pray for greater fruitfulness, greater love for your people, greater love for your son. In Jesus' name, amen. Amen. Amen. Peace. With the Perry's is produced by the Perrys with support from Amanda Reed and Channing B. McBride.

Editing by Xavier Fairley, video recording and audio production by Kim Powell, artwork by Hop, and music by swoop. If you'd like to support The Perrys, you can visit the link in the show notes. This is with the Perrys. Thank you for listening. Now go with God.