With The Perrys - How to Make Disciples That Make Disciples

Episode Date: May 27, 2024

When a man named Brian Dye started coming to Preston’s poetry events, Preston admits he didn’t trust him. But Brian had a burden to see young believers walk toward sanctification, and he felt called by God to help Preston to cultivate his influence. Brian’s pursuit of Preston and their ongoing discipleship relationship is the topic of today’s episode. Jackie, Preston and Brian discuss the pastoral nature of investing your life into someone else’s life and teaching as you go, and how discipleship doesn’t require creating a new program. Follow Brian on Instagram at @visionnehemiah and @hoodheroes773. Also, check out Legacy Conference with events this fall in Chicago, Colorado Springs, Miami, and Houston. Subscribe to the Perrys' newsletter: https://withtheperrys.myflodesk.com/zhfus4jx1s Join Preston's discipleship community for men: https://www.patreon.com/PrestonPerry/membership To support the work of the Perrys, donate via PayPal: https://paypal.me/withtheperrys Shop BOLD Apparel: boldapparel.shop Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It's the saints and the a It's the saints and the eight I need another cadence Yeah You need another song, babe And the saints and the saints It's the saints and the saints You know, you know, it's the saints

And the saints No, not that On the orange couch Do do do do do It's not orange, it's a kind of orange actually Whatever. You know I was at an event And somebody was like,

love your podcast, The Saints and the Ains. It's the Saints and the Ais. I was like, that's not the name. People know that, bro. He didn't. He didn't. He called it the Saints and Ains. Because, like, you know, other people got podcasts where they do all times of things

to catch people's attention, you know. They give a little heresy here. What? Curse words here. You know, just all kinds of stuff. All we got is a song in Jesus. Right. Understand?

I see the logic. We got somebody on our couch. We got a special guest today, man. Mr. Brian Dye. What's up, bro? Good, man. I feel old when you called me Mr. though.

I know. I'm just calling only got you missing because we're doing on the podcast. But man, what's up? How you doing, bro? Doing well. It's good to be here finally. With you guys.

Ooh, that was loaded. Oh, man. Finally. Yeah, so we took too long to invite you on our podcast. That's what you're trying to say? It was a while, man. Man, what's crazy is

this is your first time on the podcast, but you've been mentioned on this podcast so much. I kind of feel like a lot of people who watch, will listen to us or even watch us on YouTube kind of know you. But, yeah, this is the God Brian died and me and Jackie have talked about a lot of times on the podcast. A guy who discipleed me, you know, and he didn't leave me to the Lord, but Gary led me to the Lord.

But he didn't want, I tell people all the time he taught me how to be a Christian. So, yeah, man. And married me and Jackie. He married us. Yep. He was my boss. for some years. You're a great boss.

Is he? Yeah, because Brian let me get away with a lot of stuff. He really just cared about if my soul was right. Does it? He's like, you know, just do your work. You ain't got to check it with me all the time. Did you read the Bible? Are you loving your neighbor?

I like those kind of bosses. So where do we start with Brian? I kind of feel like we probably can start with, you know, our story. And so... Let me start. Let me set the stage. Okay. You're listening?

Okay, I think I know what you're going to go. Preston was in Chicago out here giving the gospel, doing poetry, you know, touching girls here and there. Touching girls here and it. You're so reckless. Wow. You're such a reckless person. I had to paint the reason why you need it. Wait.

You need it. Pause. Wait a minute. When you say touching girls here and there, you got to give context, my gee. Listen. Okay. You were a very popular poet and a lot of girls were throwing themselves at you. Okay.

Okay. And you were wrestling with how to be, have integrity, how to have dignity, like you really did love the Lord. You really did care about being faithful. And yet at the same time, you're a human being. And so you were having, you were having struggles. All right. Yes, that's better. Because of the touching.

I mean, you're rubbing their back. And so Preston was praying for discipleship. and he called me. We were friends at the time. And he was like, this white man keep coming to all my events. And I was like, why? And he was like, I don't know.

Man, it's all going to be asking me, and how my heart is and stuff like that. And so eventually I started praying about it and then I told president, I said, what if God is actually answering your prayer for leadership and discipleship, but bringing it about in a package you just didn't expect? But that's pause.

That's false. Before you, that's true. you you did give that godly word but before you gave that godly world that was like a that was like two weeks later when I called you and said Jackie this white guy keep following him around all my poetry events and I don't trust him

you say yeah I don't trust that either shouldn't know what should no white man be following a black man around the city of Chicago you remember when Samuel and Nathan one of them came to David and they gave a word and then the Lord was like nodded in it and he came back and he gave that's what it was is I gave a word

out of my flesh and then the Lord corrected I know. And was like, uh-uh. I think there needs to be a little more history context to that because, I mean, it just sounds like, yeah, I was stalking you. But years before that, we met. Yeah. You know, at a gym.

Your friend, your mentor, Gary Brown, who was witnessing to at the time, invited you to play basketball. New Year's Eve. Someone invited me as well, the guy who opened up the gym. And remember meeting you 17 years old. What's crazy is. what's crazy is Brian. A lot of, so, you know, I wrote about you in my book. I talk about you all a time. People know, like when, when people hear me talk about my salvation story or even my, you know, becoming a Christian and how I grew in the faith, they hear about you. But a lot of,

a lot of people don't know that, though. I think people kind of think our story started when you started going, following me around, you know, doing poetry or whatever. But now, I actually met Brian before I even became a Christian. And so a guy, who led me to Christ, his name was Gary Brown. He took me under his wing, disciple me, and through Gary's life, I gave my life to the Lord. But before I gave my life to the Lord,

I think it was like seven, eight months before I gave my life to the Lord. We used to hoop in the hood, like in the middle of, was it Little Village? Little Village. It was Little Village. And it was like 12 o'clock at night

on the top floor of a church. It was no air condition. All kind of gang members and the hood dudes up there, we would just hoop. You know what I'm saying? And then when we were getting into it, We go in the back.

We have fight and they make us hug. And they were like all these hood dudes they got to say, they was disciplining, you know, little boys from the hood. You know what I'm saying? I was 17, 12 o'clock at night, this white guy walks in. And I'm like, who is this white boy in the middle of the hood? And then that's when it was like, you know, that's Brian Dye. He lives in the hood. You know, he disciples a lot of young men in the hood.

And I remember being fascinated with you at that time. And then, you know, fast forward later, you know, some years later. later, I had gave my life to the Lord. I was doing poetry. My poem, poems was doing well on YouTube, and I didn't have a church home, and you begin to follow me. And I think that's kind of how our discipleship relationship started. But when you first started following me, like, I'm saying like you're a stalker.

When you first start coming to my poetry events, I'm not saying following me. Whoa, whoa, whoa, after the poetry events, you will walk up to me and be like, yo, let's connect, yada, yada, yada. Or I called you. you didn't call me back. I was like, I thought that was the weirdest thing. One, because I didn't grow up around white people. You know what I'm saying?

And I wasn't used to white people even being interested in me. And so I thought you wanted something from me. And do you remember what happened when you called, when I called you? I think you were at a beach. What happened? Yeah, I was at a work event, like a picnic for a work event. And you called me up. And so I stepped aside, picked up.

the phone and you're like, hey, I just got to be honest with you. I just don't trust you. Something along that line, right? And I'm like, well, why? And you start to explain and so forth. And in my mind, you know, really, again, I remember you before you were a believer, right? Now you're a believer. You have some kind of influence in Chicago. You're popping up at shows and so forth, which I would just normally pop up of those events anyway. because the work I was doing. Yeah, yeah. And what I was concerned with is that what I knew of you at the time is that here's a

young believer who's hanging out with a lot of young believers who have influence, but don't have community, weren't committed to a church. There was, you know, obviously a whole history there of stuff that happened in the past with a specific church, church. But so God just laid you on my heart specifically. and just I just felt clarity like you follow this dude pursue him hit him up you know so forth and yeah you you were just weren't responding to my tags you weren't answering my phone calls because Jackie told me not to it's the woman huh it's sound a strange no man what was crazy was

you know I tell people all the time you know I'm glad the Lord kind of made me an honest person because I in my honesty I've I've been able to to get a lot of clarity. And so when I called you and was like, okay, I'm so sick of this dude calling me. Let me just tell him I don't trust him. And I'm so glad I did that. Because when I did that, what that did for me was

it allowed me to see your heart and hear your heart. And I've never heard a pastor talk to me with that much humility. I remember feeling so stupid, you know, after you was like, no, I don't, I'm not trying to automatically get pastor you. I just want to love you as a brother. I want to come alongside you. I want to help you. And you, it felt like a big brother in Christ immediately. And I was like, oh, this white boy might be

okay. Oh my gosh. And Byrne is half Puerto Rican. So he ain't all the way, you know. We all know that. Look at the nose. I'm just flamed. Brian got some, uh, cruises. Anywho, I'm, I want to get underneath the pursuit, though, because that's always been a model for me. or expectation really when people see people who have some level of influence. And it doesn't even have to be a platform, just influencing believers in churches. Like, I feel like there are two responses is either people pursue out of selfish ambition or people neglect out of fear of being perceived as wanting to be connected with this influential person. And I feel like you were in the middle where you saw the influence, but you felt called to cultivate him so as to protect him and other people.

people. And I'm so glad you did. And it's like how how does like what is the theological perspective, I guess, anchoring that position. Yeah, yeah. Well, first of all, like back in that day, I mean, you had some Chicago fame, I guess, some local fame. But you're not, you weren't pressed in Perry as you are now, right? But whether or not you had a stage or a platform, you know, my, my heart was, here's a young individual who needs community, who needs discipleship. who needs pastoral care. And so, you know, so again, whoever you were, you know, I think God has given me a burden to see young people.

And I think of Jesus when he saw Simon Peter, he says, you are Simon, the son of John, but you shall be Peter, right? And we all need somebody, and I had this in my life when I was younger, somebody who could see the potential in us that we can't see ourselves. Yeah. And be able to walk with us to, to that fruition, to that sanctification point. And so that was my whole heart in the relationship is just, man, here's an individual who needs to be fine-tuned, who needs continued walking with. And man, was I rough around the edges?

Oh, my goodness. Like, I think, you know, your discipleship has really helped me throughout the years because back then I was, I had this zeal. I had this passion for the Lord, but I was very reckless at the mouth. I was very still rough around the edges. And I think that you just came in at such a pivotal time and just begin to help mold and shape me and disciple me into like a mature believer. And then, you know, just to get people context for you really quickly before we go on to like the next thing. It's like, man, when I came into your life, it shocked me how many men you were disciplining. Like, so, Jackie, Heidi, his wife, Heidi, and Brian, they live in the heart of the west side on one of the worst blocks on the west side of Chicago.

And I think when you guys first moved in, somebody shot in your house, a bullet almost hit Heidi. And you dedicated your life to praying for that block. And they live their own purpose. And they lived there on purpose. Like they, you know, they chose to live on this block on purpose. And they don't have children of their own, right? And so they just dedicated their life to just taking in young men for years. And so as long as we've known them, I mean, I can't even count how many young men from the block or from the neighborhood or from other neighborhoods in Chicago that has lived in your house.

And so when I came and saw that for me, it was just, it took Christianity, it took the, like, Christianity to another level for me. It was, like, transformational for me because I was like, man, Christians actually dedicate their whole lives. to the dedication of disciplining others. And I was like, this is the guy that I was running from the whole time. I was like, no, like, this is his heart, you know? And so I just thought, you know, you was fascinating. And so you just came into my life as such a pivotal time to help mold me and shake me. Yeah.

What I was appreciated about you, Preston, though, is in midst of your rough edges, whatever, there was a desire to learn, to grow, to be challenged. Yeah. And so I think that's what a lot of times we miss when we're investing in people. We look for the finished product. We look for the person who's fully made into a disciple, right? And we don't see the potential in the midst of the shadows, you know? We all have strengths and shadows, and they're really just two sides of the same coin.

Our shadow, so, you know, you're a bold person, right? And so when our sin nature corrupts that boneness, it comes out as brashness. It comes out as hurtful. It comes out as not thinking before we talk, so forth, right? You always call me Peter. Yeah. But when it's sanctified, right, now you're speaking truth in a way that falls on ears that are ready to listen to it because it's coming with love and great. and compassion and so forth.

That's good. So again, it's been great just in the, I mean, we're talking 20 years of seeing this. Continue with God doing a work in you, the Holy Spirit doing a work in you, to make it into the man you are now. That's encouraging, man. It's encouraging. I'm encouraged. Me and Preston, we're talking about just our relationship with you this morning.

And I was saying how I think the early part of my walk, there was someone who helped me to know how to be a disciple. and then Melody Fabian she's just taught me how to be a wife and a mother and a friend and I think you have taught me how to be a leader because when I started to work under you

you just, first of all, the reason I even came to Chicago in the first place. We got to tell the story. Because Brian Tech me and was like, do you want to, would you want to work in Chicago

or the nonprofit or something like that? And I'm like, I'm not going to leave St. Louis. Like for why? And then I feel like you gave me the salary And I said, I will pray about it now But I didn't know that behind this, I guess Preston and Brian had been having conversation

And Preston had been praying that God would send me to Chicago. Yeah. And Jackie, we're working at Wendy's. You were flipping burgers. I learned a lot about what people started asking. And so Preston started talking about you, right? And like, y'all, I'm interested in this girl that's been my friend and people know the story.

And so I needed a position filled. And so I was like, oh, let's offer a position to get her to Chicago. Absolutely crazy that you put me in that position. You put me in a position to be a leader over this swath of women. Mind you, every single one of them were older than me. I didn't know what I was doing. What's crazy is, and this is the reason why I tell people, discipleship and good leaders is so pivotal in the body of Christ

because the people are like, how you and Jackie become good leaders? I really think what a leader job is to do is to help. help cultivate you, but they have to see something in you that you don't see in yourself. And so I was working at Radio Shack. You were working at Wendy's. This guy, you know what I said? I go to him and be like, yo, he's just started to disciple to me. I just let him in.

I'm like, yo, not only, you know, do I like you, but I, you know, not like that, right? But I like this girl. Thank you for clarifying that. Because I was talking about how I like you intimately and I don't want nobody to get to twisted, right? I was, I like this girl named Jackie Hill. he's like, yeah, the poet. And I was like, yeah.

I was like, I really think God is calling me to pursue her. And he was like, I can see how God is calling you yada, yada, yada to that, to her. I'm going to offer her a job. And so you offer her a job. That's insane. That's the Lord, right? You offer her a job to Chicago. You know what I mean?

And then you see something in her. You put her over the women's branch of the organization to mentor mentors. And then you freaking make me like the evangelist kind of like, person in the church. And I'm like, and so I say that to say this, like, I feel like you saw something in us that we didn't see in ourselves when I was working at Radio Shack and she was working at Wendy's. And I think that's how we kind of, you know, saw that God was calling us to greater, I think. And so that's just dope.

I never would have, you know, pursued her in that way if she never would have came to Chicago. Yeah, what I was going to say was that so we worked at a nonprofit called Group Outreach for Youth, which basically partnered, like local people from churches to mentor what they would call at-risk teens. And my job was the female mentorship coordinator. So I was over the female mentors would connect with them, check on them, see how they're doing, blah, blah, didn't really like the job. But I was there.

And every Monday night, we would gather all the teens and the mentors together for this thing called slam. And when everything was over, everything is dismissed. I'm sitting in the corner waiting on Negroes to go home, right? And Brian, he came over and he was like, go talk to your, go talk to your coaches. And I was like, why? He was like, because you're supposed to. And I was like, I don't want to.

So the next day, I'm probably combining stories. But we were in the office and you was like, Brian, he gives very quippy, unemotional, unprofetic truths. not long. It's like Jesus died, swallowed that chew it and apply it. And he was like, Jackie, you know that the task of a leader is to die first. I'm like, bro, like, when somebody say that, now you understand leadership ain't about you. Leadership is to die. That's the whole point. So that mean next Monday I need you go out there and talk to the people. I don't care if you're introvert. You're going to be a leader today, which means to be a servant. Yeah. So thanks, Brian. I've applied

that. I've tried to apply that to my life ever since then. In the same way that I would say, you know, pressing onus shapes him. Jackie, you have a prophetic gift, I think. You're intuitive. You could sense what's going on in the big scheme of things. And so has someone, again, that is unshaped in that, unled by the spirit in that, it becomes very hard to build a whole lot of relationships because you're feeling a lot. You're sensing a lot.

and that burdens you. It weighs on you, right? And so the easy thing to do is just pull it back. And that's how people read you. Like, Jack, you don't care about me. You know, she just said, have a wall up. You know, she don't want to talk to me and so forth. But again, it's a good leader sees the potential, sees the strengths in the midst of the shadow, right?

Because that's all the shadow does, it's light is passing through and is being blocked. Right? And so, but through the shadow, we could see the shape of the real thing, right? And so I just, again, I just, you know, have been privileged to know you guys and, again, journey with you in this. Can I say something real quick? No. So one verse that you should probably get tattooed on your neck is Matthew 28 because you

preached it, taught it. I ain't a lot, bro. I was tired of you preaching that text. You got tired of God's word. That word. I got tired of that word coming out of it. His mouth. You got it etched in your mind.

So Matthew 28, go therefore make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son of the Holy Spirit teaching, them to obey all that I commanded you, lo, I will be with you into the end of the age. That's like a mission statement, I think, for your approach to ministry. Do you mind explaining that text for us? Yeah, yeah. So obviously, I think we all know this is Jesus went to the cross. He died, was buried for three days.

and early Sunday morning, he rose again, right? And now he starts to appear to the disciples, to the women disciples first, and then to the male disciples, he tells the 11 male disciples that were left, right, to meet him on the mountain in Galilee, which is a three-day walk from Jerusalem where they were, right? And so they journey there and Jesus gives them his last words, is his words before he departs are those words, right? And the emphasis, the crux of it is to make disciples. And, you know, I always use the illustration like most of us don't like to make food from scratch,

make a meal from scratch. We like to go Uber eats it or go to restaurant and enjoy someone else's labor. And that's how I feel like a lot of churches do. We look for disciples. We search for disciples rather than do the work that it entails to make them, right? But Jesus, that's what Jesus does. For three years, he invests his life into these individuals that will go and grow the church. And in there you have, I mean, you have blue-collar workers.

You have fishermen, right? Not highly educated. You have a thug, Simon the zealot. You have James and John who are like brash, one of the cast. down fire from heaven. So these weren't like the cream of the crop. These were people, again, whom Jesus said, I see what's in you and I will bring it out of you, right?

And so he walks with them for three years and now he calls them to do the same thing with others, right? So go make disciples. Go, go find people who aren't disciples yet and shape them, walk with them, invest in them, teach them, you know, live life that you kind of alluded to that. when it says baptize, the idea is more than just dunk someone in water. But it's this idea of you immerse people in the character of God. The way you do that is by opening up your life for them so that they could see God in you.

Give us the pickle. So we all. Pickle illustration. You know, if you grow up in the hood, you love pickles, right? Maybe in some other contexts, they look like cucumbers. But they're the same thing, really. But this guy named Nkandor wrote a recipe of how to make pickles, 150 years before Jesus was born, but he wrote it in Greek.

And so there's a lot of clues in it. And so he says you take a cucumber. He says baptoe it. You dip it in water, right? So that's the word when Jesus says, the one who dips his hand in the bowl with me is the one that's going to betray me. So you wash the cucumber to get the dirt off it, right? it becomes moist for a little bit.

But eventually, if you just put it back on the tables, you can get dry again. It's still going to be a cucumber, right? But then he says you baptizo it. That's the Greek word baptize, right? You baptize it in vinegar solution. And so you let a soak there for days, you know? And now it starts to take on the object that it's in, that is submerged in, right? And now you take that object out and it's no longer a cucumber.

It's been changed, right? The oldest past, the newest comes. it doesn't taste like a cucumber anymore. It doesn't smell like a cucumber anymore. That's my story. So spending the time, right? Now, Jesus also says teach, right? So there's three commands there is go, right?

So we're to, as we're going, be active and making disciples, right? Wherever we go to the gym. So it's not necessarily about adding things to your schedule. A lot of times what me and Preston would do is just, you know, A, I'm going to run here. come with me. You know, Jackie, me and you, we grabbed lunch together, right, and had a staff meeting. So as you go and make disciples, right, and you do it by, again, baptized by immersing yourself in the lives of other people, and then you do it by teaching, right? Now you open up

the scriptures and you explain what people are seeing in your life. Why do you care? Why do you love? Why do you sacrifice? Why do you serve? Right? Well, this is why. Yeah, that's good. That's good. I think the as you go thing was so freeing when I realized that discipleship doesn't mean you have to create a new program, but rather just what does your life look like invite people into that? So like with Melody, Melody would invite me over the house and while she's doing laundry, and while she's doing dinner, and while she, like, she didn't even stop. She's still going about her life, but she's engaging me at the same time. And I'm low-key learning how to be a wife as she's teaching me.

me about something else. Yeah. And so nothing, her life didn't necessarily change. She just invited me into it. And what's crazy is, you know, I tell people all the time, you and Heidi were the first healthy marriage I was ever around. Like, I wasn't around healthy marriages. And so for you to connect Jackie with a job and for you to be in my life at a time

where I, you know, was pursuing this young lady who God was calling me to was so pivotal for me because it was actually following me. you when I saw you get frustrated with your wife and then come back and repent. When I saw you going on date night with your wife every single day and never missing that that day. I saw you like praying with your wife and doing ministry with your wife and loving your wife. And so like that was just so good. So I learned how to be a husband not just by the stuff that you taught me, but the stuff that you displayed, you know, which was which was so pivotal. Can you talk about the Oh, Lord.

Help him, God. I don't know where you're going. Where are you going? Okay. Can you talk about the, what I'm going is not funny. When I'm thinking about on the back end of it, it's funny. Can you talk about as a discipller, the challenge of walking with the person, knowing when it challenged them, knowing when it encouraged them. Because I think when you saw disciples to disciple somebody, me and you are, we have a friendship.

now. And you, you, you talked about often, like, how the discipleship relationship kind of turns into like a friendship, right? And I'm not your peer. I still look at you like I look up to you. But when I first started walking with you, I said it to say this. When I first started walking with you, you had the ability to hurt my feelings or to build me up or to tear me down, you know. And it was times you had to challenge me. It was times you had to encourage me. So can you talk about that dynamic. I mean, what I was laughing about was the time you made Jackie cry. I don't know if you want to talk about that. What do you say? When, when, when, when, you wasn't, you didn't want to let me in? Oh, I thought that was Kareen. That made me cry. No, no, no. At the, at the, at the, at the,

restaurant. No, no, we, we were having a one-on-one staff meeting. Oh. Yeah. Probably put it back into the recesses in my mind so I don't have to feel that emotion anymore. But trauma response. The trauma response. But yeah, talk about the dynamics of knowing how to like lead people well

when you're disciplining them. It's, you guys have three kids who are four kids, four kids, four kids, who are very different, I'm sure, right? And so it's in the same way, you know, education world.

you call it an individualized education plan, right? Some kids need a learn through rope memory. Other kids need to be active. Other kids need a discussion about something. So in the same way, I call it an IDP, right, individualized discipleship plan. So you got to know the individual and know how to best approach them, how to best speak to them, how to best engage them, so forth. First, that's only 15th, says, we urge your brothers, admonish the idol, encourage the faint heart, encourage the faint, hearted, help the week, be patient with them all.

Right. So when someone's just being lazy, you know, it's like, okay, I need to give them a little push or her a little push, right? Like, hey, you need to spend time of the Lord. You need to date your spouse, right? You need to do X, Y, and Z. But then if I ammonish the faint harder, that's going to crush them, right? Because they want to do what's right, but they're just, they're, it's failed.

so many times before, right? And they just need to be encouraged in it. And then help the week, right? Some people just don't know, right? So, okay, let's talk about it. You know, let's talk about how to love your spouse. Let's talk about how to study the scriptures and so forth. So I don't want to beat you up with something you don't know already, right?

That's good. But be patient with them all, right? And it takes time. Took Jesus three years, spending 24 hours with his disciples. So the thought that we could disciple someone, help someone grow in a matter of weeks or in a matter of days is foolish. That's good.

When you look at, you've been in Christ, how long? 30 years? Yeah, 30 plus. When you look at ministry, like discipleship in churches and in communities when you are an earlier believer and look at it now, would you say that encouraging a discipleship culture is harder now?

Yeah, I think, you know, social media obviously kind of builds within people, this shock culture. You know, it's like what gets the likes, what gets the attention? Discipling people doesn't get that, right? And so you're literally teaching people how to be patient, how to be, you know, long suffering, how to walk with people. And so I've, you know, disciple however many people over, you know, 30 years of my life, when people look at it like a Billy Graham, let's say, right,

who's led hundreds of thousands of people to the Lord, it seems more significant, right? That's more sexy. Or the person, again, who has 100,000 YouTube followers or whatever, right? It looks like bigger, right? but what's what gets me is is god always works slowly it appears throughout history right um he always chooses the the low the weak you know and he's patient with them he walks with them he endures with them and so jesus could have came down and been the biggest pop star you know um he could have

came today and had the biggest social media following he chose not to he chose to come at a time where where, you know, we didn't have phones, you know. And he simply again walked with 12 people for three years, and then he said, duce, you know? Yeah, yeah. That's deep in those 12 people help, you know, spread the gospel throughout the whole earth. Yeah. And I don't want to, you know, obviously you guys have a platform, the stage, and so forth.

So, you know, I've told you guys in private before, you know, the, the, the national needs to follow the local, right? What starts in the home needs to spread out, right? And so it's cool to have at the national platform, the broad reach and so forth. But when Jesus, and I think it's Luke 5, the crowd is pressing into Jesus to hear the word of God, it says that Jesus saw two fishermen cleaning their nets.

And he goes, he leaves the crowd, and goes to them. and he tells him, hey, let me get in your boat. And he pushes out, he teaches the crowd for a little longer, but then he pushes out with those two, which are Andrew and Peter. And that's where he goes, right? It's like, okay, there's a time for the crowd,

but then there's a time, okay, let me observe who's in the crowd and let me identify one or two that I could go deeper with. Yeah, yeah, that's deep. I remember just really briefly, you talk about like all the people that you've disciplined. I remember, I think it was,

what birthday was it? When we kind of celebrated you. That was probably my 40. Yeah, it was your 40th, your birthday. And your wife, Heidi, just said, she threw a big, big party for you.

And she said, if you ever been disciple by Brian and your life, stand up and come to the stage. And I was shocked that so many men from all different ages came up and walked to the stage. And so that was just really, really, really help for me to see that.

So, yeah. How does someone fight the comfort and self-centeredness of not pouring out in that way? Because I think that's ideal to say, look at all the, well, you shouldn't say. But, you know, to rejoice and say, this person has made many disciples, praise God, right? In my self-centered mind, I'm like, ooh. that man, that was a lot of talking he was doing and a lot of praying and a lot of bearing with and a lot of dying.

There was a lot of dying too to even get to that point. And so I guess in your own life, like your own community, your own time with God, even with you and Heidi, what cultivated your ability to serve in that way? Yeah.

I think part of it is just my own story. You know, when, so I grew up with a mother who struggled with mental illness. I had a father who was an alcoholic. So my household wasn't the healthiest place, right? But I had my grandmother, who was our spiritual rock. And she connected me with other people.

She knew the importance that I needed to be connected to a broader community. And so she connects me with a church. And at that church, I meet a guy named Paul Terry when I was 12 years old. And Paul was a carpenter by trade who never went to seven. Bible school, nothing. But over the weekends, he would just spend time with me. Fridays, he would take me to go play ball and with some older guys. And I would just sit on the sideline and watch him play with the guys call time out of the middle,

do an impromptu Bible study. Saturdays, he would do odd jobs to help people around the house. So paint a wall, whatever, he would take me, you know. And every time we spent time together, he would just ask me, hey, what's the word for the day? And at that time, I was like, I'm 12 years old. I'm like, church is tomorrow. Like, that's, that's me tomorrow what the word is, you know? But he would just then share, hey, today I was reading Psalm 23, the Lord's My Shepherd.

And he would just talk about that. And within that, one, I had a father figure now, but two, I just saw the intimacy that he had with God. And it started to rub off on me. And then my grandmother brought me to this Christian youth center. I met a guy, Dave Woodyer, who saw potential. in me as a young believer, 14 years old. And he started challenging me and my two best friends, hey, it's time for you now to pass and out to others. He taught us how to study the word. He taught us how to teach and so forth. So as a 14 year old kid, I was just like, oh, I guess this is what

Christians do. And so it just seemed like, hey, that was, then I was supposed to do. And so me and my friends, we started these bibles studies up in the neighborhood and just started walking with people. And so it just became part of my natural rhythm. It wasn't until later that I realized, oh, this is not what everybody does, you know. But I saw the impact on my life and I started to see the impact on other people's lives. I'm like, man, this is how God works, you know? And in the midst of it, it's not just pouring out to somebody else, but God has a way when we minister to others to minister to us. That's good.

I can't ask Preston, A, what's you've been reading in scriptures if I ain't been reading, you know? I can ask questions about someone else's purity if I'm not fighting for purity. Yeah. So God ministers to me. He teaches me what love looks like. He teaches me how to persevere. He teaches me how to labor and prayer. Yeah.

Yeah, that's good. But Brian, it's been a couple of people, well, actually more than a couple of people who've told us that they haven't even heard of the term discipleship until they listen to our podcast. Or they heard me talk about you and or if they heard before they heard Jackie talk about melody. Right. And so I guess my question for you is like what advice would you give to some people who are just now hearing about discipleship and who say, man, we want to develop a discipleship culture in our community and our churches. Like what's some advice that you can give? Yeah.

Yeah. So one I would say, you know, thankfully I've been disciple. Presby you've been disciple. Jackie, you've been discipleed, right? I think there's a lot of people who are probably listening to the podcast who say,

I've never been disciples, right? Yeah. Pray that God would bring someone into your life, right, so that you can be poured into. But if not, right, we all have the Holy Spirit, right? Yeah.

The Holy Spirit is the greatest discipler ever. You know, he walks with us all times. He encourages us, speaks to us in ways that nobody else can. So, has a Christian, we're all being disciples, right? So don't use that as an excuse. I can't disciple somebody else because I've never been disciplined. Be the change that you want to see, right?

So start somewhere. If all you know is John 316, then share John 316 with everybody you engage with, right? Just start inviting people to your life, start spending time with them, right? Look as you're in church, see who's sitting alone, right? As you're in class or as you're at work, right? see who's left out, who's on the margins, right? Build a relationship, engage them, right? And I think discipleship could be, it could be pre-conversion, it could be post-conversion, you know? Really the idea of discipleship is you just invite people to say, hey, come spend time with me, follow me as I follow Christ, right?

Again, whether or not they fully believe yet, I don't think when Jesus called the 12 to himself, I don't know exactly when they became converted, if you will, right? It may not have been to the Holy Spirit came at Pentecost, right? But Jesus, again, walks with them, right? So just start walking with people, start taking time and open up scriptures, you know, let them see God within you. Let it be a normal conversation. Yeah.

I think what I hear you saying is that discipleship can become contagious if, you know, we start seeing people in our community do it. And so I've noticed that in our community in our church in Chicago, that people will come to the church and then I look up and they're disciplining somebody. And I know they didn't come from this culture. But, you know, it is contagious.

And I think the power of discipleship is underestimated. I really do. I think preaching is powerful. That's the means by which God draws people, cultivates people, instructs people, trains people. But there is something about seeing the life of Jesus in somebody you have access to that I think gives like flesh to the word that you're hearing being instructed in. That's so true.

And like, and I think it creates like memories that it's possible. You can know what I'm saying? Because there's so much there's so much in scripture. Like even this morning I was, I've been studying about union with Christ so I have to write this paper. And like the the the gifts of union with Christ seem unrealistic. Like, I can have your strength. I can have your joy. I can have, like, if I just abide in you, I'll bear much fruit. Like, really?

And so what then anchors my faith isn't even just me willing myself towards believing that union with Christ is powerful. It's me remembering the lives of people who I've seen have his strength, for sure. You know what I'm saying? And I think that's what discipleship does. I'm going to share the story. Oftentimes people talk to us about humility.

And I've told this story about Brian to everybody I possibly can. Because I feel like it's the, besides Jesus and Canosis, you know, that this is, this is, there's Jesus, you know, not counting quality God thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking on the farm, serving being found in the human form, down on the cross. That's number one. This story is number two. So Brian, I don't even think you told me this story. I think Heidi did because you're humble.

But basically, Brian used to have this conference, not used to, you had a conference. you have a conference called Legacy Disciple in Chicago and Moody Bible Institute. All these rappers will come. All these people trying to make disciples. Everybody that was somebody was at the conference. Yes. So Brian, he's the host of the conference.

It's his conference. This man out here driving the shuttle bus. You understand? While he's driving the shuttle bus, somebody on the shuttle bus, they don't know who Brian is. They get off the bus. They say, you know what, man. I know nobody knows your name.

I know they don't know your role. but you're somebody trying to encourage him, trying to lift them up, because you're just a mere shuttle bus driver. Brian doesn't say, well, thank you. I'm Brian Dye, who's driving this. He just says, thank you. And I'm like, that is humility.

Yeah. The not having the impulse or the need to place yourself at the center of attention. Because I think to do that means that you have a particular security that God knows you, loves you, sees you and will honor you. And I've tried to keep that in the back of my mind

throughout all of these weird platform experiences that I have. What's crazy is, Brian, this is, I hope this will encourage you. Brian, I probably hates this. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No.

But a pastor came over here Sunday and met Jackie for the first time, you know, we chopped it up. We kicked it. And he was like, and this is, I'm not telling this story to big up me and Jackie would make us look important. I'm really not.

But one of the things he said was he was like, how are y'all so grounded? He was like, how are y'all so normal being that you guys have like a platform and all of this stuff, yada, yada, yada. And then Jackie, I was going to respond and say the same being, but Jackie responded first. And she was like, honestly, we would disciple well. And, you know, she was like our pastor Brian died, like literally disciple, disciples us well in humility. And what I love about the way you disciples us well in humility.

and what we told the pastor is I think sometimes people try to disciple you in humility by trying to be your Holy Spirit, right? Which means like you don't want to be the Holy Spirit and nobody else's life except the area of the area of humility. It's like you don't want to be the, you don't want to help me try to, you know, make me manage my money well and all that. You know what I mean? You want to make sure I don't fall in pride. But with you, it was like a it was like a real genuineness to see us love the Lord, to love his people. and to not be haughty because of the platform that God has given us a steward. And I remember when we first started doing the PIA tour, it was me, Jackie, Joe Solomon, or whatever.

And we all, you know, went to the church. And we would come home Monday, Tuesdays, Wednesdays, and Thursdays, we would go back on a row for the tour. And every single Monday, you did a heart check with us. And you would just remind me of the things that was important. you know, you would say, are you dating Jackie? Are you loving your wife? Are you in your scripture? Are you thinking that you're more than what you are, you know?

And so you just reminded me. And so I think what you did was you were able to instill good character in me because you had good character. You were able to instill good character in me, which I think in so many ways has preserved us. And I think because that has preserved us, I think God has given us more. Right. And so I think just the fruit of your discipleship has helped us just to be grounded in a way that is, I don't know, that, yeah, I can't even really explain it.

I think the fruit of your discipleship in our life has really rooted me. Like, I feel rooted. And so, and that's the reason. It saved our lives. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't mean that to be exaggerative. I think pride is destructive. Yeah. And satanic and isolating and unhelpful and joyless. But it's easy. And it's convenient.

It's good. And I think we have so much context and so much teaching and so much of an example for why it's not worth it to exalt yourself. Yeah. Like, yeah, thanks, Brian. Yeah, man. Love you guys. Love you, too. Tear. Thart tear.

Oh, can we, before we close, can you let us know about hood heroes, what that is, how you would want people to be. You bring in a cry. No. No. No. So, Legacy Disciple, obviously, it's been known for the conferences, which are bringing the conferences back. Jackie, you'll be at Legacy Chicago. Yes.

You'll be one of. I'll be a legacy, Colorado. Colorado Springs. Yeah, we're going to be it. No, we're not smoking weed. But so the conferences we've been doing since 2007, again, bringing them back post-pandemic this year, excited that we have a new conference director, Jeff Garcia, doing that. Hood Harrells was another guy that I've been able to pour into Jarvis Buchanan, knew the importance

of employing and empowering young people. Chicago's, he can't fight though. Chicago's disinvested communities. And so we're employing two in teens this summer to beautify the community, to develop as leaders, to become the heroes of their own neighborhood. I love that. That's good. So we will have a link at the, what you call it?

Show notes. Show notes. Yeah, for Hood Heroes. So y'all can support and check out all the initiatives. Yeah. Just want to leave and say, I love you, bro. Thank you for, you know, just being what you have been in our lives. and you will always be my favorite white boy.

I love you. Peace. With the Parish is produced by the Parrys with support from Amanda Reed and Channing McBride, video recording and audio production by Kim Powell, Abishai Perez, and Xavier Fairley, edited by the team at Tread Lively,

artwork by Hop and music by Swoop. Thank you for listening. Now go with God.